Wearin' o' the genes

Bill,Mckinney,tx — Fri, 16 Mar 2007 23:11:10 GMT

Very interesting post, I have been tracing various branches of my family tree for a few years. It's easy to make one mistake or get some bad info and you trace an entire line that isn't really related to you! I plan on taking a DNA test soon but have been waiting for the technology to get better. Good luck, Alan!

Wearin' o' the genes

Ms.Jam, Phila., PA — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 01:20:08 GMT

Heh,Bill,in Mckinney,TX the technology is probably as good as can be NOW,-go get your Dna test-don't wait. Alan O'Boyle-I can't believe you can't find any matches-you must be as rare as Christ.I haven't searched by surname,but I have maternal tribe matches, both male and female and we all have different last names.

Wearin' o' the genes

Alan Boyle — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 02:19:24 GMT

Dear Ms. Jam: Well, I'm not quite that rare. But it can be tough to find a match on the Y-chromosome markers. You're referring to the mitochondrial DNA tests, which are more general. There are a smaller number of broad "tribes" with different mitochondrial readings, so it's very likely that people with different surnames would be members of the same tribe. With Y-DNA, you have to match up on the surname as well as the markers, because that genetic information is passed down only from father to son.

Wearin' o' the genes

Ugo Perego, Salt Lake City, Utah — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 03:20:28 GMT

Alan,

thank you for mentioning the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation in your article. We now have over 16,000 Ycs profiles in our database and nearly as many sequences in our mtDNA database. I am sure one of these days you will find the connections you are looking for. Thanks to the free testing SMGF is providing to the public, our online databases are growing faster than ever. Let us know if we can help. Take care, Ugo

Wearin' o' the genes

Lee, Brownwood TX — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 04:39:13 GMT

I've traced my genealogy back with varying success. Seems like another joke on us female researchers. I traced one line, my mothers paternal back to 1064, from her father back all with the same surname. But my dna cant prove it. Sometimes it sucks to be female.

Wearin' o' the genes

Danielle Dunn, Virginia Beach, VA — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 13:04:20 GMT

Okay...cost? What am I looking at here. And please help me with the etiquette of asking someone to let you cotton swab their mouth.

Wearin' o' the genes

Chris, knoxville TN — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 14:26:09 GMT

I don't really have much of a connection to my family upline so I am curious, why are you on your quest to find a genetic match? What do you think you will gain when you do find a match and make that connection? I don't mean for this to sound condescending, I am just curious as to the drive and desire to go through such great lengths in time, effort and money and even to request genetic material in order to make a connection. I know that the hunt for ones lineage is a huge pastime and I am sincerely trying to understand the reason and passion behind such endeavors.

Warm regards

Wearin' o' the genes

Stu Pike, California — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:02:06 GMT

People can find out if there is a surname project for their last name by going to www.familytreedna.com. We've tested 64 PIKEs so far and found 23 genetically different clans.

Wearin' o' the genes

Laura Neville — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 17:41:40 GMT

the great fun of genealogy research is to discover the big surprises that people can find...such as the catholic family who discovers a jewish ancestry several generations before (and that everyone in the family simply converted to catholicism-but never once mentions the conversion)...or the Irish family who neglects to mention that one of the ancestors might have been English (gasp) and not really Irish. It is so interesting to discover this information and place it in the context of the overall family story. This new piece of DNA adds to much more to the search and surprise of looking at the past.

Great article-thanks!

Wearin' o' the genes

Des Emery,The Carborundum Chronicles,St.Thomas,ON,Canada — Sun, 18 Mar 2007 02:47:56 GMT

Happy St. Patrick's Day, Alan! Just by chance, this morning's Toronto Star edition, in celebrating good St. Patrick, had one article on the old Irish pastime of 'stick fighting' - sort of Ireland's version of martial arts which involves the shillelagh and was written by a Boyle. One of his other points was quoting the family motto - "Through Fortitude, We Conquer" - but he didn't get to describe the Coat of Arms to go with it. Canada took in a awful lot of the Irish who fled the famine and whose descendants became part of the foundation of this country. My mother came here in 1919 as a nanny looking after the children of a family which purchased a large (two sections) general and wheat farm in Saskatchewan.

Wearin' o' the genes

Alan Boyle — Sun, 18 Mar 2007 03:29:29 GMT

So many wonderful comments! This is the fun part of the genealogy deal... I'll try to respond to some of the questions:

To Lee: The trick here is to find some brothers or cousins of the male persuasion who would consent to be tested. If you could find someone definitively related to you (say, a first cousin) and someone more distantly related to you (say, a 10th cousin, based on your research so far), the Y-chromosome results should be pretty similar. I know the reality is harder than it sounds, but the male-relative gambit is the best way for women to take advantage of the Y-trail. Mitochondrial DNA follows the maternal line, but it's much less precise.

To Ugo: Thank you so much for your message. I met you years ago when I provided a (blood) sample for the project, and thanks to SMGF, I have 30 markers to compare. (Even though SMGF doesn't provide the results to those tested, you can figure them out by doing some judicious searches of the database.)

To Danielle: With the FTDNA surname project, you can get 12 markers done for $100. But FTDNA is not the only outfit that does this testing; check around and see which company and what kind of tests will work best for you. As far as getting a cheek swab, I just explained to Kieran what I was doing, offered him the swab and he did the rest. With the others, I explained that this info would be used specifically for family research purposes, and they went along with it. As for privacy concerns, I wrote a story about that five years ago: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3077152/

To Chris: That's a really good question. Why put so much effort into looking for dead relatives? I think there must be something elemental about finding and revering other members of your "tribe," even the dearly departed members. There's also something to the idea that knowing that past history makes it "my-story." There's something gained by knowing that my great-grandfather was an illiterate exile from a particular part of western Ireland who nevertheless built a successful farm in eastern Iowa, and fathered 10 children who still have heirs living and prospering today. (By the way, my grandfather was known as the local storyteller for Irish wakes ... I guess you'd call him a "seanachai" ... and I think that's very cool. I would not have known that if I hadn't taken on the family search.) Even though the farm was sold 27 years ago (after being in the family for more than 100 years), I can still go back there and tread the ground that my grandfather and great-grandfather walked. And when I go back to Ireland, I can tread the ground that I believe my great-great-grandfather walked. One of my little treasures is a chip of rock from Tromra Castle, a ruin of a Norman tower that's in the area where I believe my family lived two or more centuries ago. I'm not sure about that, though, because I haven't tracked down the exact line. The clear path back to that Irish past has been erased by time ... but perhaps DNA will reveal some sort of thread back to that part of my family's personal history. In any case, I'm so glad that I've been able to preserve the record of all the people who have descended from my great-grandfather (although that list is changing with every new birth, and I'm afraid my records sorely need updating). I feel really good about finding cousins who had no idea about "their-story" ... and then filling them in about the family saga (maybe I can turn into a bit of a "seanachai" myself, if I work at it). Anyway, I hope that gives you some insight about why the search is so interesting to me.

To Des: As always, thanks so much for your good wishes and insights. I'll definitely have to check out that article. There's quite a bit of variation in the Boyle coat of arms and motto: I've seen "God Will Provide" and "God's Providence Is My Inheritance." Also, there are two coats of arms for the two main roots of the family: the "Irish" Boyles usually show a yellow shield with an oak tree...

http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp/s.Boyle/Origin.IR/
sId./qx/coatofarms_details.htm

... while the "English" Boyles (going back to the Earl of Cork and Robert Boyle) show a red and silver shield (embattled argent and gules):

http://www.heraldry.ws/html/boyle_e.html

I see there's also a "Scottish" Boyle coat of arms:

http://www.heraldry.ws/html/boyle_scotland.html

My family lore has Michael Boyle coming through New York, but many of the people who came to Iowa from Ireland passed through Canada. Anyone who has traced his or her heritage back to the exodus during the Great Famine should really read up on that part of the story. My two favorite books on the Irish famine are "Paddy's Lament" (a 295-page semi-fictionalization) and "The Great Hunger" (a classic work that I cannot recommend highly enough ... my copy has 418 pages of text, followed by 80 pages of references and notes).

Wearin' o' the genes

Mike Hoekstra, Near Chicago — Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:52:03 GMT

Sir, You had mentioned surnames and YDna markers. That isn't always true. My Frisian/Dutch ancestry for starters. It wasn't until 1811 (per Napoleon) that the Dutch HAD to have a surname rather than just patrynomics. Most Dutch didn't have surnames until then. (1811). If you go back far enough Frisians also travailed to areas of current day England. It is possible that I share the same markers with someone with a completely different surname if my long ago ancestors went to England then back to Friesland, yet had children in England without even "illegitimacy" involved.

Wearin' o' the genes

Mike Hoekstra — Sun, 18 Mar 2007 18:54:38 GMT

I would add, that even sans the England/Frisian connection...when my ancestors took "my" surname in 1811 going back a few generations of merely "frisians" there are males that I connect to from Friesland that have a different surname. They didn't all pick the same surname or were separated by relations by a 100 years and didn't care to share a surname or know.

Wearin' o' the genes

Ellen Waterbor, La Quinta, CA — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 01:38:00 GMT

Thank you for the post. The DNA angle seems worth investigating, I didn't think testing was really that accessible. I have German 'relatives' that I'd love to find a link to. The language barrier is tough though. As far as why we do this- I agree there is something fascinating about playing detective, discovering who the people were that frankly are responsible for your existence. One slightly different decision or event and you yourself are (aren't!) history. I have learned interesting things too. Ex- Penske Truck Leasing which we all know of, was created when Roger Penske bought MM Waterbor, Inc. in 1967 in Easton PA. (my ggrandfather's first cousin was MM); and a much more distant 'relative' was a respected leader of the Griquas in South Africa (people of Dutch/African mix who were forced out of other villages to an area of worthless land). After his son became chief was when the FIRST diamond was found there by accident. He asked the crown to help keep order, but they did more than that and booted him out. We have Kimberley and DeBeers today. In a speech, Nelson Mandela honored Andries Waterboer as a great leader of the people. I am also now pen pals with my 90 yr. old 'uncle' whom I'd never known yet lived within miles of for almost 30 yrs. His letters are invaluable. You can't get the stories from DNA or any internet site. His wife is my blood relative and they were both a little confused when I first called and introduced myself. Her given name is Ellen Waterbor, too. What an interesting start it was to our conversation!

Wearin' o' the genes

Margaret Sweatt — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 03:33:23 GMT

I am looking for the Coleman Conneely (Conley)family from the Toureen are. He came to America near the turn of the century with his wife Ellen and daughter Mary. I am sure there must be some relatives among thos on this site. I would love to hear from some.

Wearin' o' the genes

Ms. Jam, Phila., PA — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 04:54:40 GMT

To Danielle Dunn,of VA.The cost is Free at Sorensons,smgf.org-free to those who know their families names and birthdates for the last 4 generations.I don't so I didn't go there,though I match some people in their database.It's $99 at NationalGeographic.com/genographic.Most other places cost like $250-$400.But it's all worth it if you have it.

Wearin' o' the genes

Ms. Jam, Phila., PA — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 06:23:03 GMT

To Chris of Knoxville,TN. I'm on a quest to find these ancestors of mine because normally you'd never really know where you're from except this DNA came along and now I can say for sure I know it's this or that line.It makes me feel more secure to know what I'm dealing with/and or mixed with.And it's just beautiful to me....and an adventure,like Raiders Of The Lost Ark.Just because I can -it's exciting- and it's science for the people,and the regular masses to partake of.

Wearin' o' the genes

Chris Eldridge — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 08:15:28 GMT

I don't know guys... The only thing I could think of as I read this was how exposed I'd feel having my DNA read. Not sure why... almost like reading one's soul I guess.

Wearin' o' the genes

Guy S. Newell — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:04:48 GMT

Our society is so mobile now. I'm from a rural farming community in Western Michigan. I went to school with people who's grandparents went to school with my grandparents. I lived just down the road from the house my father was born in. I have pictures and stories from my families past all the way back to the English Civil War. My father was really into tracking down cousins all over the United States. Most that he found were worried that my dad though they owed him money or something. Personally, I fail to understand the facination with this.

Wearin' o' the genes

Alan Sheets, Loveland CO — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 17:16:10 GMT

Not to put a damper on things, but wouldn't all it would take to really screw up a DNA-based genealogical research is 1 illicit affair or 1 unrecorded adoption?

Wearin' o' the genes

Mary Smith, Tyler, TX — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:47:52 GMT

Hello! I did the DNA test but have not had time to fully understand all the references. Have had phenomenal luck locally in finding a 4th cousin on my dad's side. Turns out we live in the same town here. Would love to find out more about my Irish place heritage. My dad knew and even took a trip to Ireland in the 60s to meet some of his mother's family. He never told us anything about where or who. What site would you recommend for additional DNA testing exactly?

Mary Smith

Wearin' o' the genes

Alan Boyle — Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:32:05 GMT

That's right, Alan ... In fact, some genealogists have found some unwelcome surprises as a result of this research. You might not even realize it until you compare tests with a known relative. I referred to this scenario briefly in the 2002 story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3077144/

Wearin' o' the genes

John in Cincy — Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:04:01 GMT

Alan Boyle~ nice story.

Alan in CO~ I understand what you are saying, but my experience with other genealogy buffs is that after you get past your immediate family (say grand or great grand parents) then most people aren't upset with some dirty laundry. I know a man in his 90s whose mother was a first cousin of Jesse James. His mother was deeply ashamed, but I think everyone after that thought it was pretty cool. I have a family line that ran a series of pre-Civil War brothels.

And sometimes it goes the other way. I had a grandmother who lost her mind, was committed to a state hospital and died at around 45 years old. Her cause of death was listed as syphilis. At the time of her death, that was considered scandalous and caused the family quite a bit of shame. Through a lot of digging and interviews, I can give a compelling case that she in fact died of undiagnosed diabetes and if she did have syphilis at all, it was a result of being raped in the hospital after she had been committed.

Wearin' o' the genes

Margaret Butler, Chouteau, OK — Wed, 21 Mar 2007 15:02:47 GMT

Boy, did your article hit home! Thanks for writing it.

A similar thing happened to me. I and some others worked for years researching my Butler line. It eventually led us to a huge Butler family from Christian County, Missouri. We compared our family memories, photos, health information, locale, time chart, mysteries, traits & habits, affairs -- everything linked up (which happens rarely in genealogy, if ever). When Mom & I met one Missouri man, we did a double take because he favored my own family so much. The wavy hair & blue-that-turns-grey eye color were even common in both families, along with some bad traits. This went on for several years, and we managed to restructure the whole family tree, finding descendants from each branch. I even wrote a large family history -- photos & all. When it was all over, I decided to do a DNA test, certain it would cement it all together. Lo & behold, it DIDN'T MATCH!!! I still haven't found Butler DNA that matches ours.

Wearin' o' the genes

Patricia Daly, Cleveland, OH — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:20:21 GMT

The dark side of genetic testing--there is one. Not to scare any one off this track, but here are two situations within our family that are raising some issues within the lives of my male cousin and myself.

When my cousin took the DNA test, initially he had no matches. About a year later, he had one exact 37 marker and a 35 marker match. The two matches share the same surname, which is different than ours!

A second isssue is that for over 50 years I knew that I have an older brother who was offered for adoption. When we found the first match, I had to tell my cousin all about this part of my life--a painful part that I'd rather not revisit. It turned out that this man is not my brother, but we only knew this when we found his relatives over seas. Until that point, I had to deal quickly with fear, and many other uncomfortable emotions!

I did it, and have now resolved myself to the fact that I may indeed uncover this brother...we need to be prepared for the possibility of uncomfortable findings.

Sincerely,
Patricia

Wearin' o' the genes

SMITH — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:36:16 GMT

If you want to have real test with genealogy try looking for links with the SMITH surname. Its real fun after you've gone through most of the reliable census records and family history. With so many variations of the spelling it does get worse and then there is also the Anglicanization of various forms such as SCHMID, SCHMIDT, etc. It all makes for a lot of time consuming searchs.

Wearin' o' the genes

Mark Danford Des Moines, Iowa — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 03:46:34 GMT

Alan. I read with great interest your story about the frustrations of genealogy searches.I too have a similar story about my Irish ancestors{Dunlavey}.Arriving in the U.S. in the mid 1860's, they also settled in Iowa and began farming. A questionable County Donegal parrish wedding form is my oldest link. The promising news is that there is a Dunlavey Clan DNA search being conducted out of Scotland. The Clan is well documented in North Ireland history.After losing battles with neighboring clans and the English, the Catholic Dunlaveys split up.Some remaining in the area and the rest moving to the Scottish Highlands.There are about 30 variations of the name so this DNA test could get interesting if I do match.
I made a great connection on my father's side recently {Danford} by working on the maiden name of my ggrandmother. Out of 2 years of frustration and dead ends. I connected her with another Danford family history which went back generation after generation to England 1521. The family arrived in the New World about 1634.
My advice of all is to try any name linked to your family's history with different spellings. For Irish be sure to try Mc,Mac and O'.
Good Luck on your search! Mark D.

Wearin' o' the genes

Marla Jones, Seattle WA — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:05:34 GMT

What is the best company to go with to narrow down Irish and British Isles ancestry to subgroups within the country? Most of my family's ancestry on both sides is the majority from the UK but we want to know more than that (regions of the countries; Highland or Lowland Scots; Pictish, Celtic or Viking Irish, Northern Scots-Irish, outer Hebrides or other Islands, etc.)

There are autoimmune conditions that we trace back to Dad's Dad's Mom who was Scottish that indicate she had some Orkney or Shetland ancestry (global ground zero for MS and a hotbed of autoimmune conditions. Small islands, founder's effect).

I don't want a test that tells me I am 95% european and 5% native american, I want to know what countries, what tribes, what regions of the countries, etc.

Thanks for any recommendations of companies.

Wearin' o' the genes

Marla Jones, Seattle WA — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:11:26 GMT

Adoption, stepfamilies and adultery do not cause any problems with genetic geneaology. Genetic genealogy is THE way to tell who really was blood related or not. It tells no lies and uncovers the truth, which is why it is so valuable.

Wearin' o' the genes

Marla Jones, Seattle WA — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:13:05 GMT

What is the best company to use to find out Native American ancestry?

We suspect about 1/4 Ojibwa for spouse.