Space vs. education?

Mike Schumacher, Foresthill, Ca — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:27:29 GMT

Manned spaceflight to the moon and mars is a huge waste of money. There is far more bang for the buck in unmanned spaceflight. End project constellation and expand unmanned spaceflight.

Space vs. education?

Orlando Gordillo, Corpus Christi, Tx — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:29:45 GMT

Now lets think about this... Who came first the chicken or the egg right... thats what's going on here. well I am here to say, So far we haven't needed sum multi-million dollar educational thing to produce rocket scientist or astronauts. Why would we need it now. People make whatever they want out of themselves. If a child dreams to be an astronaut, it is his own passion that drives him there. We are using up our resources we take for granted, so the faster we're off this dying planet the quicker we can habit another one. Barack Obama you are a fool.

Space vs. education?

Doug Fingles, Warner Robins, Georgia — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:34:21 GMT

You've got to be kidding me. A nation that spends $17 Billion a year on PET FOOD (out of $40 Billion per year on pet products), has to plunder their $12 Billion space program that's already at minimal funding? Apparently he's not got a clue that the Chinese, Russians, and Europeans would take this 5-year hiatus and leap-frog our manned space-lift capabilities, as well as control our access to orbit and the "high ground" during that entire timeframe.
No wonder this guy needs Oprah to hold his hand during the primaries...

Space vs. education?

Mike Piccirillo, Mohegan Lake, NY — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:46:39 GMT

THe fact the no candidate will attempt to excite the country about its own future is another example of mainstream thinking that we're all doomed. Throwing more money into a program that doesn't work efficiently is a continuation of the typical goverment waste (I'm speaking about education).

Space vs. education?

Sean O, Columbus, Ohio — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 02:24:17 GMT

Obama has a lot of good ideas, but this isn't really one of them. I am a big fan of Obama AND the private space industry and believe NASA's money could be far better spent overseeing an expanded COTS program and buying rides to space from American firms instead of Russia. That being said, the idea that $500 Million a year is going to do anything other than waste $, time and any technology lead the US has in space is wishful thinking. He needs to come up with a policy statement better than "we're going to take from NASA and give to schools". As someone who is considering voting for Obama (or Ron Paul, I'm a little eclectic), I hope he puts more effort into thinking about where he is going to take this country.
NASA's manned space program, be it Constellation, a beefed up COTS overseen by NASA for the public interest, or in some as yet unseen version, is a very necessary program. We have a large enough trade and tech gap with Asia right now that we cannot sit around and allow the future of space resources (Helium-3, water ice, nickel-iron) be decided by the Indians, Chinese and a resurgent Russia. As Vladimir Putin signs an agreement stating Russia is investing in a new space launch site, China announces they are teaming with Russia and India to explore the Moon, and Australia is teaming with Japan to study hypersonic tech that may lead to new non-rocket launch vehicles to space, we cannot start talking about gutting NASA.
Our private space industry is in its infancy, and it needs NASA's support. Look at Bigelow Aerospace, using licensed NASA tech to launch two successful "mini-space stations" into orbit (on Russian rockets I might add). California firm SpaceX is on the edge of lowering rocket launch costs by an order of a magnitude. Now is the time to come up with cogent arguments for how NASA's money can better be spent within the framework of its charter; its not the time to start taking cheap shots to garner votes. A real leader will step forward and pronounce their vision, not leave it in the fine print on page 15 of a press release. I look forward to Obama outlining his vision for a future NASA. The American people are watching.

Space vs. education?

Joseph Basile, Worcester MA — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 02:33:31 GMT

I think it's ironic that the Democrats are supposed to be opposed to the $450billion+ war in Iraq yet one of their frontrunners instead chooses to take money away from the $104billion (spread over decades) constellation program that could enrich lives, instead of destroy them.

Also, of course it's good that some high profile political figures taking a stab at the UFO phenomenon. No matter what is really behind the phenomenon, it's clear that the government has not been truthful about it.

Space vs. education?

a p garcia — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 02:57:47 GMT

Democrats solution to any problem is throw money and grow government and hope it goes away like war on poverty. You'd think after 35 years there would be no poverty! Barry Hussein Obama wants to scuttle the meager space program and throw that money to education and hopes it fixes it. Since the last successful government program was "Man on the Moon". I think his vision is is 180 degrees off course.

Space vs. education?

a p garcia — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:30:30 GMT

The Democratic party and Sen Obama solution to almost everything is to throw money and hopes the problem will go away. Take the "War on Poverty", you would think that after 35 years and Billion of $ the problem would be solved. Now, Sen. Obama proposes to scuttle the space program and divert its funds to education. the last successful government program was "Man on the Moon" and that was over 35 years ago. With the Government's track record, I think Sen. Obama's plan is 180 degrees off course.

Space vs. education?

F. Seals Marietta, GA — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 03:56:57 GMT

Why do people keep forgetting the monumental strides in technology that arose from the manned space program? The computer we have today, you know the little box that can be carried around in a briefcase today but the same machine used to fill and entire building and wasn't even close to the capability, was technology that was pushed to help control the space crafts. The dominoe affect in other technology has helped mankind significantly: MRI, CAT scans, cell phones, GPS, iPods, etc. The benefits in the medical field alone warrant or putting more funds into NASA's hands.

Space vs. education?

Ian, Seattle — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:10:48 GMT

NASA's budget is one half of one percent of the national budget. I don't get where people think they have this huge budget. They don't. Thye do amazing things with what they have. It's not the 1960s anymore.

We're right on track to becoming a has-been nation of idiots. Sure, let's gut NASAs minisucle budget and throw it at the national educational black hole of no results.

So, enjoy stuffing your face with big macs while other nations plant their flags on mars.

Space vs. education?

Duh Fazah, Huntsville, AL — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:12:26 GMT

The current implementation of the Vision for Space Exploration, otherwise known as ESAS, is a huge boondoggle. At first blush, Obama's plan is good because it would likely terminate NASA's current efforts. Perhaps the shock would shake NASA to adopt a more affordable and immediate approach using EELVs or COTS-derived launch systems. It would also probably force the current Administrator, Mike Griffin, out of the picture and lead to a more realistic and ultimately inspiring approach for crewed space exploration.

Space vs. education?

Derek Meche — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:23:16 GMT

Just like a liberal to want to take money from a program that would produce new technology and resources and give it to the teachers unions to "educate" our children.

Double the funding of NASA, then hold them AND the teachers accountable for the product they produce!!

When the teachers of this country get our students back on top of the worlds education system, THEN give them a raise.

Space vs. education?

Glen, Albany NY — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:25:51 GMT

Ridiculous. Why is that NASA is always the go-to whenever money needs to be skimmed from government agencies to fund other government initiatives? NASA's budget is PALTRY to begin with. There are other massive pork-barrels (like the hundreds-of-billions-of-dollars-a-year US military budget) that can easily be skimmed to pay for an "education upgrade". Also, there are PLENTY of math and science capable American students graduating from colleges these days for NASA to pick and choose from. And the sad reality is, throwing more money at education isn't going to help, because we've been there, have been doing that for years now. The system has to change, not the amount of money. And certainly not NASA's budget.

Space vs. education?

Frank, Florida — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:28:28 GMT

I was considering voting for Obama, but now I realize how truly immature his world view is. He don't understand education (more money isn't going to solve that problem), nor the long term value an inspirational and vigorous space exploration program can mean to students. Obviously, Obama wasn't studying math or science in high school. Sad, he's just a conventional politician.

Space vs. education?

Jon Ygn., OH — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:41:00 GMT

The Nasa budget, (now some $16,000,000,000)is more than adequate.
However, Nasa continues to squander a large portion of their budget on pointless programs,like human crewed space flight, ISS,and the shuttle.
The Constellation Program is another example of a pointless, make-work project. It should be canceled as soon as possible.
The frequent talk we hear about the "New Space Industry" is (with the exception's of communication,weather and Earth resources) is largely fantasy. It's all smoke and mirrors. Silly talk about space tourism and colonization is just plain unrealistic.
Nasa should concentrate on exploration to be sure. However this can and should be done with robotic spacecraft. Robots can do the job much more safely and far less expensively.

Space vs. education?

Nate [GrandpaNate] Hughes Rawlins, Wyoming. — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:17:36 GMT

I honestly hoped that Obama might have a handle on what is good for America. Obviously he will never be any JFK. What is wrong with America? Have we completely lost our ability to produce leaders with vision? Fifty years ago when I was a young man, you could just about mention anything and America was best at "that." Now we are seven trillion dollars in debt, bogged down in a war we can't win, or get out of, our schools now rank about eighteenth from being the best in the World, and Space Exploration is about the only thing we excel at, and our politicians want to scuttle that advantage? America is rapidly degenerating, and it is time we turn this pitiful situation around. You want to save America? I'll tell you how to save her, Vati. Just Vote Against The Incumbents. Don't matter which party is in, kick them all out. If just ten percent of us would Vati, we would kick out at least 25% of the House and Senate, and we would get their attention. Big Business now runs America, but we still get to vote and can take the reins of government back, no matter how many millions Big Business spends to buy our politicians.

Space vs. education?

Scott N — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:29:09 GMT

I agree completely with what Sean O has said. Senator Obama's statements have made me reconsider my support of his candicy. Reducing support of one of the more visible and productive uses of a sound education hardly seems an appropriate approach to inspire a new generation. My personal experience, in high school, was watching the first moon landing and then running outside to stare at that same moon - wondering which engineering school to attend. And when I got there, I ran into a lot of other young men and women that did the same thing. You Tube videos and PowerPoint are not nearly as exciting to a young mind as a countdown and the knowledge that there could be a spot for you in the future.

Particularly troubling in his approach is that we are watching new exciting players in the space industry; some of whom may/will be successful in making radical changes in the cost model for space access. Obama does not acknowledge the NASA COTS effort or suggest a change to take increased advantage of it. He aparently sees US manned space flight merely as some cells on a spreadsheet that can be moved to other locations to increase a vote total on another worksheet. We need better leadership than that. I'm willing to give him (or his campaign) a 2nd chance, but his position doesn't make enough sense to get my vote right now. This is a no-brainer; if you can't get this right Senator, what else are you missing?
I'll just leave the good Senator one last tidbit from my public education experience: I remember the names (and significance) of people like Columbus, Magellan, Lewis and Clark, and the Wright brothers ... but for the life of me, I cannot remember the President of the Flat Earth Society (although I do see it on Wikipedia) - perhaps that will become a new area of emphasis in Senator Obama's plan for education.

Space vs. education?

Tim — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:30:38 GMT

Well, I guess that means that should, goodness forbid, that Obama got the Democratic nomination, I'd vote Republican for the first (and likely only) time. What an idiot!

Space vs. education?

Sigfried Weston, Gainesville, FL — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:05:25 GMT

NASA's budget should be expanded, not cut--it's fought the bogey-man of "the budget is tight this year" since Apollo years. I won't be casting my vote for Obama unless he changes his mind on this very very soon.

Space vs. education?

Jeff — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:22:41 GMT

What happened to the Senates of old? There used to be debates worthy of the American people. Now, instead of visionaries, we have lawyers that simply want to keep their jobs from election to election.

We need to get back to dreamers. We need to get back to Senators that understand we all want to build a better life for our kids and grandchildren. We can't educate our children properly if we don't have a vision of where we as a people are going.

I don't particularly like the Moon plan. We've already been there. I don't even like the Mars plan since we can't play softball - there are no grass, trees, facilities and bat warranties would be invalid.

What we need is a bigger Mars.

That or another large vision is what we need. Let's look at it this way. Which would you rather have our future generations do? 1) Work in a Wal-Mart oriented society for a million years, or 2) work in a scientific environment mining the Kuiper belt to build a bigger Mars?

I simply see no benefit to human growth in the Wal-Mart society we've built for ourselves. Sure things are cheaper to buy today. However, additional education is valued so little that kids without a college education can often do just as well despite what certain statistics say. I've got 4 kids with varying college interest so I know something about the situation.

I would say to Obama, you show me the scientific opportunities and I'll get my kids educated in that direction. Otherwise, if he just wants to play in a rock band, that's probably better than truck driving or slinging drinks at Starbucks.

Space vs. education?

Pat GoBucks, Columbus, Ohio — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:54:31 GMT

I think maybe ending the war would free up more cash than cutting NASA measly budget...

Space vs. education?

Ferris Valyn, Ann Arbor, MI — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:05:48 GMT

To everyone who is looking at Obama, but is turned off by this proposal - I would suggest that instead of being opposed to Obama, it might make more sense to contact him through his answer center (or call his campaign office) and demand that he develop a space policy. Say what you want about this plan, but its not a space policy - its an educational policy.

What the Senator needs to do is clarify his position on space and space policy. And to that end, I suggest you go to his answer center, which has a URL of http://action.barackobama.com/page/s/suggestquestion , and suggest that he speak to and develop a space policy. Alternatively, you can do what I did, and open a blog on Obama's campaign website, demanding a space policy. (the Url for my blog at the Obama campaign website is http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/blog/FerrisValyn

The point I am trying to make is, don't write Obama off. What we need to do is contact him, and get him to craft a space policy. Actually, it wouldn't be a bad idea to do this to all presidential candidates (or if your like me, all the presidential candidates in your party) and demand that they have a space policy.

Space vs. education?

steve smyth — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:51:04 GMT

stop squawking...if NASA goes broke in the name of education, we'll get somewhere via free enterprise, and there's some possibility that young people will know why...not much of a possibility mind you, but...ya never know

Space vs. education?

Ralph, miami, Fl. — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:53:37 GMT

I'm a democrat, but this idea from obama is ludicrous, Nasa buget is less than 1% of the GNP. Our educational system has failed becuase of to many groups wanting a piece of the rock, nothing is standard , teachers are working 6 hour days and they refuse to take responsibilities and teach.My kids go to school and watch Transformers instead of learning history, they get homework once a week. The system has more than enought money. If you look at it there are countrys in africa with 5% of the buget doing a better job because they are teaching what is necessary instead of what the parent and the PTA dictates. We need to get back to basics. instead of watering down every subject.

Space vs. education?

mabradfield,cocoa,fl — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:30:21 GMT

the war is being fought with borrowed funds. when does that payback come? the social security admin is broke( because of unpaid loans to other agencies), so lets borrow from nasa....how can this make sense to any one other that a carreer politician? let's kick the incumbents out again and start over.

Space vs. education?

Brent Duran, Lenexa, KS — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:40:54 GMT

I had been on the fence between Clinton and Obama in the past. Not anymore. I'm very disappointed in Obama's shortsightedness here on the Space Program. Our future is in the future, not the past.

Clinton now has my full support.

Space vs. education?

Bill Daneke, Pittsburg KS — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:25:08 GMT

Why do we foolishly continue to build upward when we know our foundation is rooting away. The space program has driven technology through necessity. Should we focus our attentions on our foundation and develop technologies to reduce our dependence on oil, homelessness, education, crime, drug abuse, diplomacy..... would we not become a stronger people. Would it not be great if the rest of the world looked up to us for being leaders the way we pretend they do. What good does it do us to go to the moon and beyond knowing full well the economics of developing these resources is likely thousands of years away. By this time our foundation will have crumbled to dust. Lets redirect NASA to solving todays problems before it is to late. Light speed my friends.

Space vs. education?

Daniel — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:42:05 GMT

A bigger silver spoon won't make kids any more eager to eat. But how many countless engineers found their calling after sputnik or Apollo?

I agree that there is plenty of money tied up in wars I am not interested in.

Space vs. education?

Margaret Anne — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:55:47 GMT

Interesting how none of our republican friends today have pointed out what a collossal waste of money S.D.I. is while griping about Democrat's misplaced priorties. We're not fighting the cold war anymore even though Bush insists on further annoying the world by deploying a deeply flawed technology that was designed for use on an adversary that no longer exists and we should use the Strategic Defense Initiative budget to augment and supplemant the space program. As for education, our current system is based entirely on teaching a standardized test and subjects have been cut to be able to afford to teach that test because, as usual, Bush plans are long on mandates and short on funding. We need to ditch standardized testing and go back to fundamentals. It seems like peoples' solution to education is always to throw more money at it, the fact that it never works notwithstanding. Here's an idea: Rather than spending billions annually on a defense strategy whose usefulness went away with the Soviet Union and hundreds of billions annually on a failed war and occupation that was in it's essence a personal vendetta as admitted to by the president, we could fund NASA and education fully. That's the difference between Liberals, Conservatives and Progressives: The Liberals and Conservatives are involved in a tit for tat, we win you lose trip and have been for decades. We Progressives feel like things could be done a whole lot smarter but we can't get anything done because whether the country moves right of left, we run into the same problem: Inflexible Ideology. As for Obama, I can't in good conscience vote for anybody who is anti space program. I hate to be the one to point this out but our planet has reached it's limit and a first class education won't make one whit of difference when your kids don't have a safe environment in which to live.

Space vs. education?

Deanna, Austin, Texas — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:59:09 GMT

This isn't so much a debate about which is more important, education or space exploration, as it is a chance to look at funding and finding it an appropriate path to take. Both of these issues are important, and I think Obama really needs to look at what can and can't be accomplished, and what NEEDS to be accomplished.

Space vs. education?

William Mueller — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:07:09 GMT

Senator Obama could not be more wrong. Cutting the NASA budget will only result in a further weakening of the international reputation of the United States. Meanwhile China will claim the Moon as it's territory, a disaster of unfathomable proportions and the teachers union will continue to dominate America’s school systems.

This is nothing but a shallow, calculated political move to offer a bribe to the AFT, at the expense of the least represented constituency, space exploration enthusiasts.

Space vs. education?

D. C. Johnson, Puyallup, WA — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:08:57 GMT

Obama's right, we all should have just frakin stayed in Africa! Then everything would be fine... just fine...

Space vs. education?

Jason, Louisville, KY — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:15:56 GMT

I don't understand how it costs 100 billion dollars and 10 more years to get us back to the moon when todays technology is orders of magnitude more advanced than it was when we first went to the moon.

I have to agree with Obama on this one. Our money would be better spent educating our children for the global workforce, which at the current pace they are not going to be able to compete in, and solving our energy and environmental problems. Manned space flight can wait.

Space vs. education?

mad as heck — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:24:57 GMT

democrats are all for the people and social programs, and not having anything to do with science programs

it does not surprise me that he wants to do this, but it is wrong, wrong, wrong

nasa has already been cut to the bone and they have lost a lot of brain power from retirements, people that have not been replaced

BATF classified APCP rocket propellant as an explosive and thus many kids cannot have access to larger rocket motors to even do their own experimentation

chemistry sets have been neutered, go look at one and see the stupid experiments that you can do in today's new world of terrorism and trying to protect people from hurting themselves

Space vs. education?

Mike Puckett, charleston WV — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:35:52 GMT

What idiocy!

and to those who say cut manned flight and spend it on unmanned probes, I want to know whay good is it to know the geology of Titan if no human will step foot there?

The only true value in unmanned missions are as precursors to manned spaceflight.

Without the latter, the former is a near-total waste.

Space vs. education?

Dallas Schwartz Fair Oaks, CA. — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:44:14 GMT

Sen. Obama is completely clueless when he talks about gutting the manned space program to pay for education. What does he think "inspired" a generation of first time college graduates? The race to the moon, that's what senator! Then again he doesn't exactly inspire much in the way of loyalty to the U.S.A. when he opens his mouth. If he had been in the Whitehouse instead of Pres. Kennedy, not only wouldn't we have beat the Soviets to the Moon we would have laid down our defenses and said "can't we all just get along"? This guy is bad news for this country! Not only does he NOT belong in the Oval Office he doesn't belong in Congress!!!

Space vs. education?

Bill, Davenport, IA — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:08:00 GMT

Senator Obama seems to be a good and intelligent man, and as a parent I applaud his desire to do something about the sorry state of education in this country. However, I am not sure that throwing more money at it is the appropriate exercise. And even if throwing money at that problem was the correct solution, I don't believe there is enough money in the NASA coffers to make a difference.

NASA on the other hand, already does NOT have enough money. It is a pretty sad state of affairs that we have achieved none of our original goals for space. We have no moon colonies, nor even a permanent base, we don't have much of a space station, we haven't even made it to mars yet. We truly have had no spectacular successes in space in a long time. Taking money away from NASA will simply cost jobs, and increase the technology gap that we are already suffering.

Mr. Obama needs to rethink his stance, and reformulate what he sees as needs for education AND space. And see what else he can come up with to push the DESIRE to be educated ... Oceanic Exploration? SETI? Where are the goals for the US as a Nation to inspire people... sigh...

Space vs. education?

Brian, W'Ford, OK — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:08:46 GMT

Throwing money into educational programs solves nothing. Let the teachers teach, and one day we may see some improvement. It's like the "No Child Left Behind" program in that it sounds good, but solves nothing. People can also learn on their own if they have a passion for it. In Jr. High, I took the ACT and had a 32. It was the only time I took it. I slept through my classes and maintained a B average in high school. The education system is a joke. I couldn't skip grades or graduate early because no child can be left behind. That also holds back your more intelligent kids. I went on to college for a semester, but I couldn't handle failing a final because I was right and the professor was wrong. I even proved I was right. So I quit college, got a job, and make more than my wife does. She's got a bachelor's and $30k in debt for attending a state university. She works a job that requires labor, and I sit around all day hoping there is a problem with the network I run (to give me something to do).

Space vs. education?

Pat, Colorado Springs — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:42:51 GMT

Here's why we should have a manned space programme. Scenario 1. We land a man (or woman) on Mars. National pride and patriotism go up. Children are inspired to go into math, science, and engineering, America begins to regain its technological edge in the world. Scenario 2. We cut the manned space programme. We land a robot on Mars. Yippie Skippie. Nothing changes, Americans aren't inspired, the Chinese and Russians return men to the Moon and land on Mars, we loose our technological edge.

Space vs. education?

Peter Davey, Bournemouth, Dorset, Great Britain — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:50:53 GMT

It was the late Robert A Heinlein who once pointed out that the laws of nature are not the property of any one group or society; they belong to anyone who is prepared to make use of them.
I believe that he was thinking mainly of the Japanese at the time, but the emergence of China and India simply makes the warning more pressing.
He also pointed out that the Earth is simply far too small and fragile a basket for the human race to continue to keep all of its eggs in - a claim for which there is a great deal of evidence, and more coming daily.
To quote one of Heinlein's predecessors, H G Wells, it is the Universe or nothing.

Space vs. education?

Jay — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:58:18 GMT

I agree with Pat.
This is going to sound like a bunch of random statements but I believe that it will all tie together... I refuse to believe that we live in a society where we don't really have any say in what happens. I think this is how most of the youth and others of this country feel, that in the end big business runs this country. Frank Herbert wrote: "If you think of yourselves as helpless and ineffectual, it is certain that you will create a despotic government to be your master. The wise despot, therefore, maintains among his subjects a popular sense that they are helpless and ineffectual." he also made statements about not writing anything down in stone in an ever changing world :) (and does this mean that Walmart is our Despot) but anyway . . . So I've been reading a lot of science fiction lately and it seems that the authors usually create a society which emerges from some horrible unprecedented WAR with new social and scientific enlightenment; where space travel is the main means by which the new society thrives. This is certainly the case with Gene Roddenberry and the eugenics wars (Star Trek). Perhaps this was precedented by World War 2 and how this country came out of that war optimistic about the future and part of that was eventually the mission to the moon.
Sometimes it is sad to sit back and look at the world the way it is, and this country which spends more than half(?) of its tax money on defense (offense?); and not feel as if there is nothing that one can do. Although I agree that money might be more efficiently spent on robotic exploration, it still seems like a sad situation or a moot point, perhaps Senator Obama feels that NASA doesn't really serve any scientific purpose and that private research is more efficient(?).

Space vs. education?

N, San Antonio, Texas — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:03:24 GMT

I'm only 19 years old and about to vote in my first presidential election this year. I've done some research on the candidates this year and i agree with some of Obama's views, but seriously, taking money from an already poorly funded program to give it in education.... come on now, as others who have posted mentioned before, you can't just throw money at it and hope it'll make better for our future. From my experience, the education i learned from living in the united states wasn't as great as when i lived overseas. the quality of education is very important to me, but in all honesty, improve the quality of our teachers to TEACH, leave NASA alone-- it's doing a good job on using it's limited resources to do what it can to better our understanding of space. why not just take money out of another program that isn't doing its job well and give it to NASA?

i tend to view myself as a realist, and me barely graduated form high school in '06 with a year of college and professional experience, improve our education and quit repeating history's past mistakes of throwing money at things and hope it becomes better. Please, i am an amature when it comes to politics but when somethign seems illogical i'll question it. This is illogical. So, someone correct me if i'm wrong, but as i mentioned before my educational experience changed since i studied in the states. Improve NASA funding to do better and find some other way to improve our education.

Space vs. education?

Robert McCullough, Big Rapids, Michigan — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:08:38 GMT

I am bitterrly disapopointed in Sen. Obama's complete lack of vision. The first time he needs money he thinks o NASA, which tells me that NASA is at the top of his "worthless money the government spends" list. Not only does NAA's budget consist of only 1/2 of 1 % of the whole budget, it actually does something extrerenely worthwhile with the money. So I would put Sen,. Obama at the top of my list of "worhless government employees" and at the top of the list of politicians NOT to vote for.

Space vs. education?

Dennis McClain-Furmanski, Dalworthington Gardens, Texas — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:16:34 GMT

NASA does have major problems handlig its money. It is in part a corporate welfare program. However, Obama's plans leaves a gap in orbital access that would cause a shut down of ISS. And, NASA's budget is one of the smallest sources to draw on for money for educations. Why not just demand return of the overpayments and payments for unaccomplished work from Haliburton and other contractorshandling the commercialized side of the wars we're in? I cancelled my account with Obama's web site and mailing list, and told them this was the reason. The bumper sticker that makes the point well has been floating around for about 20 years now: "... and the Pentagon held a bake sale."

Space vs. education?

Jack Green — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:24:30 GMT

My opinion: the laudable but misguided goal of fixing all our ills at home before we venture off this planet has been well discussed in the writings of futurists and historians. Taking the insular approach, we will probably not survive. We need a balanced but bold approach to both terrestrial problems and exploration.

In recent years, it appears that China, India, Japan, and Europe are smart enough to understand this. Ironically, the US society may turn its back on the future, and we must now hope that these other societies (Asia and Europe) will survive.

As decades of politicians have discovered, it isn't worth wasting political capital attacking NASA's paltry budget. Attacking NASA says more about the political motives of the campaign than it does about fiscal responsibility.

Obama's campaign has shown a somewhat startling lack of knowledge of the issues and benefits, and a disappointing lack of vision. Perhaps NASA will take the time to educate him, and perhaps he will show leadership by admitting he was wrong, as Edwards has boldly done about Iraq.

I'm having to re-think my hope that Obama is the best chance to defeat Hillary, especially because public support for space exploration crosses so many economic, political, and sociological boundaries.

Space vs. education?

Ronald Erickson, Hayward, WI — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:24:57 GMT

I was born to late to remember or even see the moon landings. But I get the feeling the powers that be have done everything that they can since then to try to kill off Nasa and that it is only public opinion that keeps it around. Quite frankly I think shutting down Nasa would be our biggest blunder in history and MR. Obama seems intent on trying to drive the final nail into its coffin. The education is there, its the motivation that our kids lack. The human mind thrives on challenges and manned space exploration is the only thing left that gives us those challanges. Set the bar high enough and the kids will rise to reach it. Set a time line for an interstellar mission by the end of the century and see if some enterprising kid from now becomes an adult and figures out how to accomplish that goal. Its Nasa that needs to be pushing the boundaries of Human exploration, but the big companies to figure out how to make it affordable for the rest of us.

Space vs. education?

D Smith, Ft Worth, TX — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:29:30 GMT

We need a broader Science Vision - that looks at objectives for doing the broader good for US and the world. Space should be part of this activity.

In another form - we need to look at how the activities leading to solutions to these objectives are funded. At present, the burden is on the government - but the spin-offs are turned into commercial prizes. We the people should be a beneficiary of such wins - and let these fund another round. So while we dole out research funding - we should be getting some credit for the commercial value created - and get dividends on such investment.

While not a pay-for-itself - it should be more a shared reward environment that seeks to truly seek win-win type benefits from the research dollars provided.

The benefits of past Space research funding argues clearly that the work is beneficial - let's just see if the rewards are better allocated.

Space vs. education?

Earl Stratton — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:36:20 GMT

So, let me get this straight: In effect, Obama wants to cut science and engineering jobs to educate more scientists and engineers? Isn't that like putting the cart before the horse? Or increasing the supply while reducing the demand.
I guess we can always export our best-educated children to other nations. Yet another sign of an America in decline -- we used to draw the best minds, not send them away.

Space vs. education?

Mark L, Belleville, Illinois — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:41:31 GMT

I think the candidate that will do the right thing in regard to NASA, and the nations space policy is New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson. Though he is not considered to be in serious contention for the Democratic nod, Richardson has boosted his state to the forefront of commercial space endeavors through his support for Spaceport America. Richardson has also gone on record as saying that he sees space as “a bona fide area of economic growth and opportunity”.

I think it is unfortunate that Obama has taken this stance on the future of our nations space program, as I like Obama as the fresh face in the crowd of presidential contenders. The more I hear of Obama's approach to implementing policies such as the space program, the less I like him as a candidate.

On the other had, the more I see of Richardson, and his policies, the more I like him as a candidate.

Space vs. education?

Daniel Kuhn, Toronto, Ohio — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:42:57 GMT

If I had the choice of where MY TAX DOLLARS are used, I would put 100% of it into the space program. It's not fair that one man can dictate where my tax money is spent.

Space vs. education?

Doug Booker, Phoenix, AZ — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:43:44 GMT

How about getting rid of the Dept of Education. Talk about boondoggle. If we didn't tax the people on a federal level people would HAVE that money to spend on a local level where there is a much better chance to oversee how the money is being spent. Anyone go to a school board meeting lately. How many school board meetings has Obama been to?

And by cutting NASA budgets and laying off both NASA and contractors you will be losing MORE tax revenue. So who is going to pay for this?

Space vs. education?

Michael F, Kansas City, MO — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:44:01 GMT

As one who worked in a government office for a while, I can tell you that most government workers are only interested in sustaining it's own bureaucracy, let alone doing anything for the American people.

Thanks to government unions, they make sure their workers don't really need to produce anything except more red tape and idiotic rules.

And before you government workers start braying and lying about it "not happening", I was there - I saw this go on. It's why I'm not there any longer.

Last item: MSN diminished their credibilty a bit by quoting anyone from Daily KOS - there isn't enough tin foil for most of those people.

Space vs. education?

Marin Laomana, Houston Texas — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:08:26 GMT

America is almost a 'has-been' and will be if we have Obama as a leader. Obviously he doesn't have what it takes to lead the country. America needs a leader who has a long term vision, not nearsighted.

Space vs. education?

Steve, Hartford, CT — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:11:19 GMT

Obama is foolish for cutting a wasteful program to build up our nation's education system?

First of all, to those saying this will go right into educational "bureaucracy" or teacher's unions haven't heard the first thing about his plan: he likes merit pay, or at least some form of way to get rid of bad teachers and encourage good ones. In other words, his plan isn't just throwing money in the DoE's direction, it's a complete reworking of the education system, starting with scrapping No Child Left Behind.

And shame on all of you, from the space bloggers to the people commenting here. You've got your education, so you're willing to scrap education for the useless achievement of going to Mars or settling the Moon. I'm sorry, those missions won't teach us anything but how incredibly hard it is to do these things. Meanwhile dropout rates in this country are higher than ever, our children's intellectual abilities are the laughingstock of the world, and you morons are saying Obama is the fool for ditching a useless program. Cutting NASA is the closest thing to pulling money out of thin air that can be achieved today.

Yes, America is in a sorry state today, because its people have forgotten that a wide swath of the population is being relegated to low-paying, dead-end jobs (and lives) because we can't fix the schools. Then a guy with vision, and courage, and ideas shows up, offers a way to fix them, and people decide they hate him because he's cutting expensive, wasteful education for a small group of scientists (billions of dollars for a few tidbits of information seems like a terrible deal to me) and funding everyone else's education.

MSN, as a media outlet you have a responsibility to inform your viewers/readers. And these people are clearly hopelessly uninformed. Please improve your coverage.

Space vs. education?

Laurel Williams, Orlando, FL — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:12:18 GMT

This is just more candidate pandering to the anti-science fundamentalist christians. Taking this money away from NASA is not going to do anything to solving the educational problems of the US. What will improve our educational system is attacking the issue of the neglectful families of the lowest performing US students. When these children leave school and go home to several siblings who all have different fathers who are nowhere to be found, and single mothers who pass the children around from person to person whenever the children intrude on their lifestyle it negatively impacts their ability to learn. We should not expect their teachers to perform miracles when the lessons learned at school are not being reinforced at home, no matter how much money is given to "D" and "F" schools. Another thing that would improve education would be to disentangle fundamentalist christians from the educational process. Here in FL we are trying to improve our science standards but fundies are fighting it every step of the way. We are all also familiar with the fundamentalist infested school board of Dover, PA and the lawsuit over teaching of intelligent design.

Space vs. education?

T. Ludwick Mullica Hill, NJ — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:25:12 GMT

I am very dissapointed in Obama! He had my vote till this ludicrous idea! Russia, China, Japan, India and a whole host of other countries are breathing down our necks in the space race. We can not afford to play catch up! Like it or not, space is our future. So all you Bible-thumpers who say ignorant things like "Let's solve our problems on Earth first", you need to pay attention to what the rest of the powerful countries have planned for the future. Obama, you need to find somewhere else to cut funds, or you lost my support!

Space vs. education?

Rob, Kansas City — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:26:47 GMT

The Federal government should not be involved in education in the first place. That is a state and parental issue. NASA is a small small part of the budget, if you want to take money from someplace in the Federal budget bring the troops home from Korea or Germany.

Space vs. education?

Keith, Irving, Texas — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:50:28 GMT

Obama just lost any potential vote I might have cast for his presidency in the general election of '08. There is no way I will support his election to office.

6/10 of ONE CENT of every tax dollar we pay in Federal Income Tax funds NASA. Surely NO ONE believes that by putting another 6/10 of ONE CENT of every tax dollar into education will suddenly make a difference.

Why are not more people asking where the other 99 and 4/10 cents of every tax dollar going? This is a perfect barometric reading of why our country and society is in the place it is in.

Obama's solution is to gut American R & D, and exploration.

Just look at the history of countries whose government ended exploration - in EVERY case, they became a second or third rate civilization, and in all cases have never recovered. Talk to the Chinese about burning ships in the harbors of China a thousand years ago. I am sure they would acknowledge the enormity of that mistake.

Here is a plan worth advocating:

1) Bring the troops home, and defend our sovereign borders ONLY

2) Put the country on a true war footing (anyone who truly believes our civilization is not at war for its survival is extraordinarily ignorant)

3) Shutdown immigration for the foreseeable future (close the borders IMMEDIATELY, and throw out illegal immigrants)

4) Set a goal of making the US energy independent of other nations in ten years, just as we did with Apollo and The Manhattan Project

5) Fund NASA to support R & D and exploration in tandem with US New Space efforts

6) Divert federal funds typically used to fight overseas wars into items 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5

7) Set a ten year plan to pay off the national debt, and if a $25.00 per year Federal Excise Tax is required of each citizen, so be it. We will be better off if we do it.

These steps will turn this country around and make it great again. No bickering. Either we stand together, or we will die together.

As Kennedy said, “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” We must embrace his philosophy, and do it soon.

Obama and other candidates, regardless of party affiliation, that take the approach he promotes to solve American problems, will not get my support.

Space vs. education?

Ray — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:51:30 GMT

Leave space exploration funding in place and focus on cutting the military budget for use in education. The human race needs to look to the stars if it is to survive.

Space vs. education?

OneVoice, Frederick MD — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:51:46 GMT

Its probably a lot easier for Obama to talk the talk cutting NASA's budget than it would be to walk the walk cutting entitlement programs in the states that he is campaigning in.

Space vs. education?

Ernesto J. "Skip" Guevara, Pittsburgh, PA — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:58:29 GMT

Why not just cut BOTH programs? Both of them are just big-government boondoggles anyway....

Space vs. education?

Jaycubed — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:58:44 GMT

There is no need for manned space flights at this time They are a waste of money that could be far better spent on robotic missions.

Under no circumstances should manned flights to Mars take place, for the next 50-100 years at least, to give us time to learn how to do it without permanently contaminating Mars with our biological waste.

I would far rather take money for increased science education from the military budget. The increase in scientific literacy would provide far more security for both our nation & the rest of the world than continuing to waste the vast amounts of money that we use to support the most expensive & powerful mercenary force in human history.

In fact, I would take a nice chunk of military money and use it to vastly increase the budget for robotic scientific space missions.

Let our grandchildren return to space once we learn how to do it right; and when we have practical missions that only humans could perform.

Space vs. education?

finnius, Houston, TX — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:00:23 GMT

First off - based on this alone, Barack Obama will NEVER get my vote. We wont even bring into the picture his plan to open free trade with Fidel Castro.

Second: Worse than Obama is the person who posted this: Jon Ygn., OH
"The Nasa budget, (now some $16,000,000,000)is more than adequate."

Yes, $16 billion would be enough, if NASA was only supporting one program. However, it is supporting ISS, Shuttle, Constellation, Aeronautics, and the unmanned programs. The ISS, Shuttle and Constellation combined see only a little over half that budget.

"Silly talk about space tourism and colonization is just plain unrealistic."

The statement above is also probably pretty similar to the arguments made by those who believed the earth was flat and Columbus' journey was a waste of time.

"Nasa should concentrate on exploration to be sure. However this can and should be done with robotic spacecraft."

While I like robotic missions, they sort of ignore the whole point of exploration. What is the point of even robotic missions if your ultimate goal is not to colonize the planets? Sounds to me like you just want funding for your "work project" but have no real vision for the future of humanity.

Space vs. education?

Jeff, Denver — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:11:14 GMT

Here's a thought...
Why don't we pay for education with money from (gasp) parents!
Instead of constantly giving additional tax breaks to people with children, how about letting them pay for the education their little brats need. Personally, I am really sick and tired of paying for everybody else's kids. I know, I know... now I'm gonna hear about how hard it is to make ends meet these days, blah, blah, blah... but if you can't afford to pay for all the costs associated with raising your kids (including the education), don't have children.
That's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.

Space vs. education?

Adam Schifter — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:21:11 GMT

I agree with Obama. Space needs to move into the private frontier. What benefit to America is going to the moon to pick up more rocks? Non-manned missions can do this on the cheap. Let the space tourists pay their own way. Our government needs to stop all of this wasteful spending and invest in our future here on earth. That is down to earth conservatism not outer space lunarcy.

Space vs. education?

Robert , Baltimore, Maryland — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:22:45 GMT

Let me get this straight. Take money from one of the only major scientific programs around because there are kids that can't read or write. What science program will be around in this country for these "educated" children in the future? The Chinese are making a highly concerted effort to reach the moon. And a reformed Soviet Union(watch what happens closely in the next few years) flush with oil/gas monies, will make a huge effort to restate their claim as the greatest space power. There will be no space program in the US if Obama delays Constellation further. Take the monies wasted in Iraq, and use them to fund education and NASA properly.

Space vs. education?

Nag, Cambridge, MA — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:25:46 GMT

With foreign nations working on catching up with USA vis-a-vis space, comments from presidential candidates like Obama are hardly welcome. The benefits derived from the Space Program over the years have been many.

The founding fathers of this country, who had more science in them than Senator Obama, would roll over in their graves if he is elected president and does carry out his plans. God help USA.

Space vs. education?

R. Pearce — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:27:16 GMT

I like Obama, but I like space exploration, too. NASA should be funded - although the Obama Administration, if it happens, should take a hard look at how NASA spends its money. The USA should remain competitive in science and that is more about funding Research & Development than "Johnny can't read". The main problem with Education is bloated administration and more money will not help solve that problem. Put the teachers in charge of education, not bureaucrats.

Space vs. education?

S.B. Stein E.B. NJ — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:27:39 GMT

I am saddened to see that Obama is willing to drain the NASA budget to do this. It isn't like we can get corporations to cough up the parts, material, labor, and everything else for free or minimal cost. It would be great if they would in the name of national pride (and part of the patent rights of new technologies created for this).

This illustrates some of the problems with the country. It is great that some people graduate high school and college. The vast majority of the pop and hip-hop culture shuns education, reading, learning and working with authorities. If there were many role models in the pop and hip-hop culture as well as sports figures that say that I am going back to school and getting a science degree for when I can't sell a record, throw a ball or make a great play. Most of these people don't have foresight into what is needed.

What needs to be done is that corporations (science and health primarily) need to sponsor school (middle and high school mostly) science classes in all neigborhoods (rich and poor urban, rural and suburban). Colleges can sometimes get endowments from alumni or corporations. If these corporations had forsight, they would be investing in the local populations so there would be little concern about immigration policies changing due to wars or reactionary government policies.

Space vs. education?

Elliot Pulham, Colorado Springs, Colorado — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:28:30 GMT

To quote a very recent article in the British publication The Register:

"A recent survey, carried out on behalf of The Space Review, has revealed that the average American believes a quarter of the country's public purse goes towards funding NASA.

"The survey found that most people reported the belief that NASA is almost as well funded as the military. The Department of Defense does receive roughly 21 per cent of the nation's wonga, but most people overestimated this by a further 12 per cent.

"In reality, NASA gets something like 0.6 per cent of the natonal budget, a fact which researchers report came as a surprise to those being surveyed. According to The Space Review, one participant replied "No wonder we haven’t gone anywhere!".

The survey formed part of a larger analysis of the costs and benefits of having a publicly funded space agency. The writers argue that people have scant knowledge of what NASA actually does. Combined with the huge overestimates of the cost of running NASA, it is not surprising that people often regard it as being poor value for money. ®"

This is consistent with what we in the U.S. space industry have found over the years. People think we spend a lot more on NASA than we do, and they do not understand the vast strategic importance of being the only nation in the world that can do certain things. Other nations, of course, are well aware of the stature that America has enjoyed because of its space prowess, with India recently announcing a DOUBLING of its space budget while U.S. politicians posture ways of plundering the technology engine that has driven our nation forward for nearly 50 years.

I agree with some of the above posts: Statesmanship, Leadership and Vision are required. So far, we are not seeing much of these qualities from the presidential candidates as regards space.

Space vs. education?

Chris, Denver, CO — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:56:03 GMT

I was considering voting for Obama. But now, I am one small step away from joining the Clinton camp.

Space vs. education?

big pig, north florida — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 18:59:26 GMT

wow, talk about stepping in a pile of doo, obviously he has no idea that other countries are not as nice as us and will militarize space as soon as they can, we should have a moon base already and be developing major laser, and conventional missle capability to end the constant aggression against resources and keep the peace. while it cannot be used in a ground war it can keep large countries from testing the water if large areas can be "baked" without ground intervention.

Space vs. education?

Guy S. Newell — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:11:04 GMT

Busting the NEA and preventing the locals from controlling the school board elections would do a lot more for education that another $18B to pay for testing.

Space vs. education?

Bill Bartel, Sioux City, Iowa. — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:21:06 GMT

Obama lost my vote when he stood with he's hand's at he's side when the National Anthem was sang and everyone else had there hand's on there heart's where there supposed to be.

Space vs. education?

GLH Pennsylvania — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:32:58 GMT

This is great, stick to welfare ball outs, criminal get out of jail free cards, and Amnesty programs for law-breakers Obama, you're out of your league (mentally) when it comes to any concept of our space program. The Champagne corks are popping all over Europe/Russia/China with that kind of talk. I bet campaign "donations" will increase ten-fold from those supporters. Let the states take care of education. Let the people who have kids pay for education. Leave the federal Gov't out of it!

Space vs. education?

M P, Bloomfield, NJ — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:48:21 GMT

Ok I am listening, to all these negative posts, stating the Mr. Obama has no clue of what he's doing and how so many technological events were defined through space exploration. Sorry but people like Bill Gates didn't need space to change the way business are run. I don't need space exploration to determine my level of success, and I certainly don't believe that a 5 year delay is going to seriously do anything to ruin the lives of the poeple if there's a chance to provide better education. One thing that I am sure of is that NASA willnot be the only budget cut the Mr. Obama will make. I am sure the funding for the war will also be reduced. Apparently people don't understand that in many other European countries where their economies are blooming and education is fully affordable, their health care is affordable, don't worry about space as much as worrying about what serious issues we have at home. It was Mr. Bush being so concerned with our foreign policy that has caused of the greatest mistakes of several generations and now people actually think space exploration, and interstellar policy is far more important then our domestic policy. I would rather my kids go to college and become great citizens, then go to space to be an astronaut, any day.

Space vs. education?

Bruce Moomaw, Cameron Park, CA — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 19:59:48 GMT

If somebody can actually show me ANY benefits from the manned space program -- as opposed to the unmanned space program (and even ITS scientific benefits are seriously limited, especially where cost-effectiveness is concerned) -- I'll be happy to back it. (Even Gerard O'Neill agreed that space industrialization -- assuming it turns out to be feasible at all -- should be mostly roboticized, with humans used for repair and maintenance only when absolutely necessary.) Until then, I'll back Obama enthusiastically on this point.

I may add that :

(1) The doomsaying about the supposedly poor performance of the American education system is hogwash. Read Gerald Bracey's analyses of those wildly misleading international comparisons, and the comparative studies showing little or not benefit from privatizing education.

(2) The fact that we're flushing money wildly down the toilet in Iraq is irrelevant to the question of whether we're ALSO undeniably flushing it away -- albeit in much smaller quantities -- in the space program.

(3) I'd enthusiastically support more spending on science and technology research in general -- we obviously need it badly for a multitude of reasons. But that is hardly the same thing as saying that we should spend $16 billion a year on manned OR unmanned space exploration as opposed to other fields of scientific and technological research. The time is long overdue to abolish NASA and redistribute its functions among the other branches of government, including NOAA, the EPA, the Pentagon, the Dept. of Transportation, and the National Science Foundation. (Then sit back and find out how cost-effective the actual scientific community considers space science to usually be, compared to other forms of scientific research. Answer: not at all, except with rare exceptions -- particularly in climate research and the other Earth sciences.)

Space vs. education?

Alyssa, FL — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:57:15 GMT

Here is my idea, take the $450billion+ war in Iraq that we have wasted and put it towards education. I'm pretty sure that more than covers the 18 billion or so he wants to pump into education. And while we are on education, how bout actually employing teachers that care about their students. I have seen to many bad teachers that don't even care enough to see if the children understand before moving on. Now dont get me wrong there a lot of good teachers and I salute you for you put up with a lot, and half the time end up using your own money to get supplies that the school won't buy, but the bad teachers ruin it for the rest of you.

Space vs. education?

Wes Kobernick, Santa Monica, CA — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:03:54 GMT

If Obama's intention is to shift manned space flight to the private sector, and provide robust support for entrepreneurial space flight, then I'd support his decision. The time when an elite few get to travel into space on my buck is over! Or should be. NASA failed on the promise of the Apollo program. Failed to deliver space flight to all humanity. It's time for the Rocketeers to take over.

Space vs. education?

one_voter — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:09:10 GMT

So many people jumping at the focus on funding and the NASA angle on this. Have any of you actually read the Education plan linked in the article?

Would anyone here argue that that teachers are overpaid? The plan focuses on rewarding teachers who perform - it is not just blindly throwing money at the education problem as many comments seem to suggest.

The plan also recognizes that there must be a revived focus on math/sciences in the country. A little thought might reveal that this would be an investment in the future of our space program - as you increase the number of well-educated students, you somewhat exponentially increase the chance at breakthroughs in technology that could lead to a more efficient space program.

It seems like many of the comments here are from people that read "take money from NASA" and then immediately started typing out a response.

Space vs. education?

Warren Uniewski — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:13:55 GMT

Personally I feel that Barack Obama should be applauded for this education initiative. He is quite right when he says that there will be no engineers/scientists for exploration if education is not made a priority. What like minded people such as ourselves should be doing is not disparaging this effort but instead providing constructive ideas for other sources of funding and even leveraging NASA as a tool to help further education. Education is the most important investment we have and with out it we are lost!

Cheers

Space vs. education?

Drew — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:08:29 GMT

Obama is an idiot. How about he take his money from the war he claims to oppose instead of one of the only programs America still funds that provides any dreams/motivations to students to actually go into the sciences/engineering?

Obama, I realize as a priveleged adult, you have no concept of the realities of life, but students excel in math and science based on their motivation, not money. If you really care about increasing the numbers of America's scientists and engineers, you'd be thinking of ways to make the areas more exciting to children/young adults.

Space vs. education?

Drew, HI — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:24:13 GMT

NASA has a piss poor budget as it is. That was a pretty pathetic sound bite from Obama about how if he doesn't take from NASA's budget there won't be any scientists and engineers to work there. Way to be extreme and dramatic. Oh, and a complete liar as well.

America's education system's problems have far less to do with money than it does to do with how it caters to building up a false sense of self-esteem in our children instead of an actual education.

Programs like NASA provide dreams and motivations. These are what propel students to go out and achieve irregardless of where they are from or what financial situations they find themselves in. All the money in the world does not replace an individual's drive.

In short, you are a fool Obama. I sincerely hope the flocks of anti-establishment followers you have continue to perform to past expectations and find themselves too busy discussing highbrow issues at brunch then actually going out to vote, because you are one of the last people I'd like to see in the White House.

Space vs. education?

Andy, Washington DC — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:35:54 GMT

Obama just lost my vote for good. What a ridiculous proposal. Hey Obama--what about crop subsidies? What NASA returns for the piddly billions they get is incredible--do we not want a permanent base on Mars? If so, the only way to get there is to go to the moon first. What we need are MORE national projects--around space and energy independence--to get our young people excited about science again. This is just another example of a mainstream politian being totally out of the loop.

Space vs. education?

Frank, Dallas, TX — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:39:36 GMT

Gutting NASA might be what Obama wants, but good luck getting that through Congress. The founding fathers, in their wisdom, gave the President veto power, not the power to tell Congress what to do.

He might obstruct a strong, vital, and healthy NASA though, so he still won't be getting my vote.

Space vs. education?

Tom Carter — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:59:24 GMT

I have to say that I still get goosebumps every time I watch a shuttle launch. The awe of seeing 2 million kilos of machinery and fuel lob itself into orbit is a wonderful thing these days. Not to mention the mars rovers which like a couple of old pickups keep doing their jobs and refuse to break.

When compared to the 50 billion congress is about to pump into the horribly depressing muck that is Iraq, even NASA's worst financial blackhole (the ISS) is inspiring.

The disturbing lack of national ambition in today's presidential candidates is rather telling. We, as a nation, need a challenge. Let's be honest, 300bn a year in military spending has given us the capability to blow up anything on earth; except that we don't really need to.

The cool thing about space flight, manned or robotic, is that it's cheaper, more fun and gets fewer people killed. Thus I see no reason the government can't spare a billion or two for NASA. Think of it this way, a space program is better than prozac for the mental health of our nation.

Space vs. education?

Justin S., Alamogordo, NM — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:20:13 GMT

Yes, we do need to fund our schools, but we also need to think about the future of life. With everyone living here on Earth, if a catastophic event occurs here, right now, we would not survive. Spreading ourselves out in the solar system, and eventually, galaxy will ensure our survival.

If we keep putting on what needs to be done, there will come a time when we'll look back and say, "we should have planned better." Let's not make the mistake of putting off important opportunities, let's explore, colonize, and prepare for the future now rather then later.

Our successes in space will inspire the future to learn. One last thing. The most important projects are always funded the least amount, let's reverse that!

Space vs. education?

James Donnally, Columbus, Ohio — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:24:06 GMT

I must say that I have shifted from Republican to Democrat after the tactics of our current president. I was even starting to find commonalities in opinion with Sen. Obama. However, I would have to say that his idea to take money from our space program and shift it into education is a poor way to win over the American public. He thinks that more will come from education if it has more money? Please, I am a teacher and I am familiar with some of the things needed to improve education. While we are underfunded and short-handed, just throwing money at the program will not help. We need to untie the hands of the teachers..kids lack discipline. On the NASA news, since space and science exploration have begun we have benefited as a nation. Take a look at what has come from the space program. It would be make much more sense to expand the space and scientific research programs than to cut their life line. We are going to take a back seat to the world again if Sen Obama gets his way. I suggest he reconsider where the funding should come from.

Space vs. education?

justin S., Alamogordo, NM — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:56:02 GMT

People also forget that not only does NASA explore space, but they also do medical experiments in space. They map the Earth, they help find hot spots in forest fires, they help find evidence of global warming, and many other unmentioned items.

The Moon and Mars offer us new elements, minerals, fuels and other materials. Education will continue, if funding isn't increased. Kids who want to learn will learn, and even most who don't want to learn. It is up to parents to help educate their children. Teachers can't do it all, no matter how big their budget.

A gentleman above seems to think that going to college will make his children good citizens. College isn't what it takes to be a good citizen, character is. Bill Gates didn't finish college, I didn't either, but I still believe that we are good citizens.

Space vs. education?

Joe Jackson, Seattle Wash — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 01:36:33 GMT

Ax NASA and start over with space exploration, most of the technical skill has been backfilled with paper pushers and money sucking special interests. That agency can't even balance its books.

Of course, federal education programs are even worse!

What the country really really desperately needs is to start a NASA like commitment (race) to improve energy consumption efficiencies and alternative energy sources with the holy grail being fusion. That could save us loads of money, save the environment, and set us up for the brightest possible future.

Space vs. education?

Paul Adams — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:08:53 GMT

Manned space program is one of diminishing number of fields in which America is considered the world leader. It is, or should be, a source of great national pride at a time when the nation seems muddled. There are already signs that the US lead in spaceflight is begining to slip away, this new plan would throw it away. The nation needs to get behind NASA not abandon it.

Space vs. education?

CJ, Kalispell MT — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:30:04 GMT

YAY! 104 BILLION to land on the moon twenty years from now? What an enormous waste of money. What did the first moon landing cost? Like six million bucks? Why does it cost so much more and take so much longer than it did in the sixties? This is absolute regression. Sit back and let private industries explore space- they won't piss money away the way our government will. Barack, thanks for trimming some fat. Now get us out of IRAQ!

Space vs. education?

WJR, Houston, TX — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:48:55 GMT

We need to have a good demand for scientists and engineers in order to fuel the incentive for students to take the tough courses to qualify for that work. Recovering an experience base is not something that happens a year or two or five after you decide you need it. Every decision you make affects your option set down the road, this is one of the more critical and possibly the most foolish decision he could make. Maybe this demonstrates his own experience level or lack thereof. In any event, NASA's funding doesn't end up in a large bonfire. Instead, NASA's funding is converted to product and services back to the government and the nation - and ends up helping drive local economies across the nation.

Space vs. education?

finnius, Houston, TX — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:03:40 GMT

Bruce Moomaw, Cameron Park, CA said: "If somebody can actually show me ANY benefits from the manned space program -- as opposed to the unmanned space program (and even ITS scientific benefits are seriously limited, especially where cost-effectiveness is concerned) -- I'll be happy to back it. "

[...] Let's see, let me take away your computer, your cell phone, your high speed internet, your satellite tv, your live around the world news and sports coverage just for starters. Let me take these things away for a week and see you turn into a quivering ball of jello. The benefits both direct and indirect of the space program that you see every day are large enough to fill an encyclopedia. If it wasn't for the space race in the 60s, we would never have developed the technologies for all of those things I mentioned above. While I am at it, I will add the breathing apparatuses used by our fire fighters and scuba divers as another important benefit. I could go on and on and on. How do you think your satellites got into space? The ones that allow you to watch everything you want on tv, the ones that tell you what the weather will be like, the ones that run your GPS? Do you think some poli-sci major got them there. I don't think so. The technology that allowed those satellites to be launched is a direct result of the space race.

I am all for improving education in America - but I don't think that destroying one of the most important branches of our government is the way to do it. Especially considering that branch operates on a shoe string.

"(2) The fact that we're flushing money wildly down the toilet in Iraq is irrelevant to the question of whether we're ALSO undeniably flushing it away -- albeit in much smaller quantities -- in the space program."

Ignorant, misinformed opinion about the space program, but opinion all the same. Not fact.

"(3) I'd enthusiastically support more spending on science and technology research in general -- we obviously need it badly for a multitude of reasons. But that is hardly the same thing as saying that we should spend $16 billion a year on manned OR unmanned space exploration as opposed to other fields of scientific and technological research. The time is long overdue to abolish NASA and redistribute its functions among the other branches of government, including NOAA, the EPA, the Pentagon, the Dept. of Transportation, and the National Science Foundation. (Then sit back and find out how cost-effective the actual scientific community considers space science to usually be, compared to other forms of scientific research. Answer: not at all, except with rare exceptions -- particularly in climate research and the other Earth sciences.)"

These are other organizations with their own agendas and their own goals and none of those organizations has any goals for exploration. I would not recommend pludering NOAA the EPA or the NSF to bolster NASAs pathetic budget, so why should NASAs pathetic budget be plundered to bolster theirs? Also, again with the misinformation. NASA's budget may be $16 billion, but that budget is broken up into a multitude of programs which are all vastly underfunded. Aeronautics takes a very large piece of that budget and it has nothing to do with either manned or unmanned space exploration. And redistribute NASAs paltry budget to the Pentagon? I know NASAs entire budget equates to about an hour of the Pentagon Budget. I think the DOT budget also puts NASA to shame. [...]

Steve, Hartford, CT said: "And shame on all of you, from the space bloggers to the people commenting here. You've got your education, so you're willing to scrap education for the useless achievement of going to Mars or settling the Moon. I'm sorry, those missions won't teach us anything but how incredibly hard it is to do these things. Meanwhile dropout rates in this country are higher than ever, our children's intellectual abilities are the laughingstock of the world, and you morons are saying Obama is the fool for ditching a useless program. Cutting NASA is the closest thing to pulling money out of thin air that can be achieved today."

Stevie boy, I got my education because I dreamed of working on the space program. People have to have something to dream and strive for, otherwose, what’s the point. I think our education is in a sorry state, but the government forcing more standardized tests is not going to solve anything. Training students to pass those tests and forcing curriculums geared to those tests is a waste of everybodies time and money. Come on, the only people I know who actually like their jobs are those who work for the space program. People I know who work for the oil industry for example, bring home tons of cash but hate every second of their job. Your contention that going to the moon taught us nothing is sad and pathetic. You and everybody else needs to get over this ridiculous idea you have that NASA has a lot of money. It has no money. It is so underfunded because of shortsighted politicians with agendas and the public's vast lack of understanding of that budget. How come nobody blinks that we will spend $3 or 4 billion to build a football stadium, but $3 billion for the Shuttle program per year is considered a vast waste of money. Andyou people say our priorities are wrong? I guarantee nothing will happen on that football field that will do anything for mankind. Yet nobody blinks an eye at that. And who is footing the majority of th ebill when a new stadium is built? The team owner? No, it's the tax payers and the people who travel to that city (all those hotel and rental car taxes, where do you think they go).

"Yes, America is in a sorry state today, because its people have forgotten that a wide swath of the population is being relegated to low-paying, dead-end jobs (and lives) because we can't fix the schools. Then a guy with vision, and courage, and ideas shows up, offers a way to fix them, and people decide they hate him because he's cutting expensive, wasteful education for a small group of scientists (billions of dollars for a few tidbits of information seems like a terrible deal to me) and funding everyone else's education."

What are you talking about???? Expensive, wasteful education??? We got the same education as everybody else. Then we went to college, where we paid for our own "expensive, wasteful education" so how does that impact anybody else????? So you are not only advocating destroying NASA, you are also advocating that nobody should go into science and engineering because it is "wasteful blah blah blah" - this makes no sense. Cutting wasteful education for a smal group of scientists??? What world do you live in? Where are "scientists" being trained and funded and the grade school and high school level???? Oh yeah - They ARE NOT!

M P, Bloomfield, NJ said: "Ok I am listening, to all these negative posts, stating the Mr. Obama has no clue of what he's doing and how so many technological events were defined through space exploration. Sorry but people like Bill Gates didn't need space to change the way business are run. I don't need space exploration to determine my level of success, and I certainly don't believe that a 5 year delay is going to seriously do anything to ruin the lives of the people if there's a chance to provide better education. <snip>. Apparently people don't understand that in many other European countries where their economies are blooming and education is fully affordable, their health care is affordable, don't worry about space as much as worrying about what serious issues we have at home. It was Mr. Bush being so concerned with our foreign policy that has caused of the greatest mistakes of several generations and now people actually think space exploration, and interstellar policy is far more important then our domestic policy. I would rather my kids go to college and become great citizens, then go to space to be an astronaut, any day."

OK, first of all, are you willing to pay the European rate of income taxes??? Usually in the 50% neighborhood, with lower pay then us too. Some countries the tax is even higher. So funding health care and education and other things is relatively easy. Secondly, ESA is very committed to space exploration. BTW: Space Exploration is part of our domestic policy. Now that 5 year delay you remark on is about misconceived too. That 5 year delay could very well destroy our space program. Even if the program survived (and I am doubtful it would), how many 10s of thousands of jobs do you think will be lost? Look at what happened in the 70s when Congress killed the Apollo program. Texas and Florida and California were hit very very hard by job losses and recession. How is this a good thing? And what would you like your child to do after going to college? What if your child's dream is to work on the manned space program. Great, he just went to college... but now there is no space program for him to work on. I'm sure he'll love you for that. And those people going to space? Guess what, they have degrees, typically they have multiple degrees. Many of them have PhDs, because that is what it takes to be selected. They study hard and work hard to get that opportunity. And they did it with the same sorry education system that we all had. People who want to learn and can learn, will learn. People who don't want to learn, will not learn. Nothing will ever change that. It's not like we have a shortage of people in colleges and universities getting degrees and advanced degrees.

Space vs. education?

Ray N., Houston, Texas — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 17:15:53 GMT

If we stop policing the world and spending hundreds of billions on the military industrial complex, we would have more than enough to fully fund NASA and education initiatives. We pay to blow up bridges in IRAQ, pay Halliburton to rebuild them, pay Blackwater to defend the workers building the bridges, (when they are not killing innocent civilians), and then we wonder why terrorists organizations are being bred in IRAQ?

Ron Paul will bring our troops home, permit local control of our schools (not the Department of Education bureaucrats), strengthen our borders, stop decay of the dollar, and he will come to realize a robust space program is a good defense of our country.

All other politicians will try to throw more money at the Education problem and try to start more unwarrented wars throughout the world. There is plenty of money right now if it is allocated better and smarter. Please check out Ron Paul's beliefs and ideas, you may like what you see. (www.RonPaul2008.com)

I bet if you give him the chance as President, he would rather pay for rockets to the Moon and Mars rather than for downtown Bagdad and Kabul. ((And soon Tehran if the warmongers have their way)). Let's stop the madness, vote for the right person for President--Ron Paul

Space vs. education?

digaslaze. Long Beach, CA — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:07:56 GMT

Regardless of the questionable merits of Obama's proposal to cut NASA to pay for education, lets look at this from a November election perspective; NASA's biggest footprint for the Constellation Program is in Alabama, Florida, Colorado, California and Texas -gee, I wonder if those states will be crucial to winning? If this is any example of his thinking, his different approach to politics sure sounds like a losing one for November

Space vs. education?

Dave Briggs, Rockford, Tenn. — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 19:51:44 GMT

Well,
I admire Mr. Obama's important opinion about education! As a space exploration advocate I am not thrilled at the idea of taking money from it. I think this might be a case where NASA and the other's involved could find some way to compromise.
I was on the TIME web site earlier and he was concerned that the rest of the world is moving ahead of us in science education.
Maybe if some of the money that was taken from NASA was earmarked for science education NASA could look at it as delayed gratification and in the end they get a new crop of excellent scientists by waiting?
Dave Briggs

Space vs. education?

Paul, Pasadena, CA — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:37:25 GMT

Senator Obama would do NASA a deep disservice by suspending a significant portion of its funding for 4+ years. NASA's full vision can only be achieved with a balanced portfolio of human and robotic spaceflight missions. The vision suffers as soon as one or the other is under financed. By example, recent shifts of priority from robotic to human spaceflight under Bush and Griffin (in support of Constellation) led to a significant reduction in more basic research at the agency, the scrapping of several exciting robotic missions, and unfortunately, a loss of very sharp people who could no longer pursue research in their hard-earned fields of expertise. As in previous years for robotic missions, NASA is really gaining momentum towards Constellation and returning to the moon. You can't keep a dedicated, well-oiled workforce in suspension while you go off and do other things. People find other opportunities on other projects, agencies, academia or private industry. Let NASA get its job done under its already meager budget, and inspire the next generations with its example.

With respect to education, until we change the culture of the USA, with its predisposition towards glitz, glamor, fame and material wealth over achieving pre-eminence in science, technology, humanities, the arts, etc, throwing money at our educational system will be a waste of money. I only hope that the American people re-engage once they discover the US is no longer at the top of the pile.

Space vs. education?

Randy Bradshaw, Kansas CIty, Missouri — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:57:39 GMT

Our continued spending on our space program, whether it's to the moon, Mars or (I think even better) near-earth asteroids, is strategic to the United States. Other countries recognize that, why is it we don't have any leaders in the US that have any vision beyond the ends of their noses or our pocketbooks?

As an engineer I can tell you, if there aren't jobs to employ engineers, then our kids won't go into engineering. We'll have an "out-sourced" space program that doesn't benefit our economy, and a bunch of business majors and lawyers that will be "really useful" when we don't have any industries to employ them.

Wake up America !! This is important !!

Space vs. education?

alan — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 00:59:04 GMT

To Jason from Louisville,

NASA had 3% of the national budget when we went to the moon during Apollo.

The current plan is to do it with less than 1% of the national budget.

Lunar outpost is exciting and will inspire the youth far more than feeding the education department bureaucracy. NASA is an affordable and necessary re-investment in our country's engineering, science and technology bank account. I wish more people would take a minute to look at the total budget and what is spent elsewhere. Delaying Cx 5 years is essentially killing it.

Yeah, let's build up our nation's engineering and science brain base while we eliminate one of the few national programs for applying those skills. Genius.

Space vs. education?

alan — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 01:01:45 GMT

To the person who asked for benefits of the space program, go here http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html

Space vs. education?

John, Denver CO — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:52:04 GMT

I am no longer impressed by Obama after learning his stance on space. Everyone should read Robert Zubrin's book, "The Case for Mars" and understand his key points. Zubrin is in favor of not only manned exploration of Mars but eventual colonization of the planet by terraforming it should that become possible. This is not simply because he is a former rocket scientist, but because he is right that humanity needs a challenge right now worthy of its technology so that we can continue to expand rather than stagnate in the next 100-200 years. 1969 was the modern world's equivalent of 1492. We should not stop now. Why can't we get a real visionary like Robert Zubrin to run for President instead of these dim-witted politicians! NASA's budget is puny compared to the miltary budget and if anything NASA's budget should be expanded. Education of engineers and scientists will pick up if there is something going on for kids to get excited about.

We need to establish a permanent manned base on the moon, send men and women on missions to Mars, and continue robotic exploration of deep space as well for the following reasons:

1) The simplest and most obvious one is that humanity is overpopulating the Earth and consuming too many resources. 6 billion people is already putting a strain on Earth and we will be at 10 billion in a few decades. Colonization of other planets and eventually other star systems is essential- either that or draconian limits must be placed on reproduction eventually. Is anyone paying attention to the carrying capacity of the Earth?

2) We are very vulnerable as a species to asteroid and comet impacts as long as we inhabit only 1 world. We are unlikely to build a planetary energy shield anytime soon. Astronomers are already concerned about asteroid Apophis that could hit the Earth in 2036 depending on gravity's effect on it during its near miss of Earth in 2029. It is large enough to wipe out a large city or cause a huge tsunami due to impact speed. Other asteroids that we don't know about need to be only 1 to 6 miles across to destroy all life on Earth. Only a small handful of astronomers are mapping out these asteriods. Even former astronauts are concerned about asteroids.

3) Humanity's thirst for exploration cannot be quenched or suppressed. We need to inspire children to learn math & science to become engineers & scientists by exciting them with large projects like a manned Mars mission.

4) We need to stay competitive with the Chinese, Japanese, and Europeans who are forging ahead in space. The Chinese will likely beat us back to the moon. We do not want to be left behind in the 21st century equivalent of the Gold Rush.

5) We need to mine Helium-3 off the moon as an eventual fuel for nuclear fusion reactors here on Earth that would be safer than nuclear fission reactors.

Thank god we have visionaries like Robert Zubrin, Richard Branson, Burt Rutan, and others in the world to take us to the next levels of technology. I just wish we could get some more visionary leaders in politics in either party!

Space vs. education?

Sarah, Houston, TX — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:51:02 GMT

Obama just lost my vote. I agree that Education should be high priority but NASA needs and deserves every penny of the 0.58% (yes, that is less than 1%) of the Gov't Budget that it presently receives!

Space vs. education?

Frank Glover, Rochester, NY — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:44:41 GMT

"Perhaps the shock would shake NASA to adopt a more affordable and immediate approach using EELVs or COTS-derived launch systems."

Duh Faraz, you may be right about that. But is Obama (or ANY other candidate) up to speed on COTS, NewSpace, or the like? Would they have any Idea what you're talking about? I doubt it.

"Nasa should concentrate on exploration to be sure. However this can and should be done with robotic spacecraft. Robots can do the job much more safely and far less expensively."

Jon, we've been around this before. Commercial space will speak for itself in time, and is irrelevant to this discussion, because that's not tax money that Obama or anyone else in government has any right to redirect. I will only add that your robots aren't safe in that kind of budget-cutting environment, either. If this trend begins, planetary probes will be next ("Why should I care about the rocks on [fill in with name of planet/moon], when [fill in with name of problem] needs to be done on Earth?"), and ultimately NASA will only be running a few politically-correct (albeit necessary) space-based *Earth* environmental monotoring programs, and nothing else, in or beyond Earth orbit. In space vs. education, some people see no difference between spending tax money on a manned Mars mission, and an unmanned Mars rover, or the like, even if the latter is, say, 10% of the former...

Be careful what you wish for.

"Under no circumstances should manned flights to Mars take place, for the next 50-100 years at least, to give us time to learn how to do it without permanently contaminating Mars with our biological waste."

Jaycubed, who is 'us?' You can't presume to prevent anyone else in the world, that gains the ability to do so, from going to Mars. The United States is not everybody. Russia, the EU, China, etc. won't be bound by what a US president does at home... (and do you *really* think it would take at least '50-100 years' to deal with contamination issues??)

"Here's a thought...
Why don't we pay for education with money from (gasp) parents!"

Jeff, as someone who is child-free, I understand your feelings. But I'd much rather live with an educated populace, than an uneducated one and I believe education to be a necessary (but not by itself, sufficent) condition for a meaningful democracy, and so, I have no problem with paying taxes for public schools. (but wether we are actually getting our money's worth in education [as, indeed, with NASA] is another matter)

And I would add this for everyone's consideration (including presidential candidates, if I believed they were lurking here):

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/898/1

Space vs. education?

blaine jeffreys, Raleigh,NC — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 23:59:34 GMT

NASA spending money on manned spaceflight isn't an example of squandering funds, but research into "global warming" is- as is myriad other NASA programs that have nothing to do with AERONAUTICS AND SPACE. NASA needs to go back to the moon but not take 20 years to do it. Isn't it odd that it's going to take them longer to do something that they've done before?

Space vs. education?

blaine jeffreys,raleigh,nc — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:05:50 GMT

Dear Jeff from Denver,

If only your parents would have taken your advice.

Space vs. education?

Anita, Birmingham, AL — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 03:10:22 GMT

This does it for me! John Edwards gets my vote! and I'm making a donation now.

Space vs. education?

Laura Young, Toronto, Ontario — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:54:20 GMT

Supporting NASA's Constellation Program or not is not either a vote for space exploration and science or against. The current plan is about gutting and privatizing NASA's traditional role and putting man on the moon for "economic expansion" of private individuals and companies, not for the greater good of America or any other country's greater good.

In fact, the billions of dollars being spent are simply externalizing onto the taxpayer what should be the private costs of companies gearing up to expand their commercial operations into space. The Planetary Society is currently protesting the evisceration of science projects from NASA's budgets. http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00000457/

Make no mistake, the reasons behind "why the moon" are purely commercial gain for a few in the space vehicle, mining, hotel and energy business, and drudge work and little gain for many, much like what is happening on earth right now. The science part is only how to expand our current free trade regime into outer space.

Space vs. education?

Dean Guttadauro, Cincinnati, OH — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:50:09 GMT

This is ridiculous. A significant portion of NASA's budget already goes to education. For instance, it supports the JPL at Caltech, which is the premiere educational facility devoted to space science in the entire known universe. NASA also is involved in educational programs for high schools and primary education as well. Beyond that, the space program has encouraged many students to study science and go to college. We should be increasing funding to solve the problems of science education and enrollment, not decreasing it.

Obama is just playing a shell game, moving money from proven educational programs to new unproven ones. If he were really interested in increasing educational funding, he should look to sources that are not already being spent on education, and particularly programs that help math and science education, two areas the US has declined in recently.

Most surprising of all is hearing this from the candidate of "hope". It must be a false hope, as America has never been more hope filled than in the days of the Apollo program. But I can't say it half as well as it has already been said, so I will refer you to the words of John F. Kennedy :

http://www.famousquotes.me.uk/speeches/John_F_Kennedy/3.htm

or

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/We_choose_to_go_to_the_moon

Mr Obama, abandon this idea. It is a bad idea, it is bad for education, and it is bad for America.

Space vs. education?

Jeannie, Houston Texas — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 17:43:56 GMT

The problem with education in America stemmed from the education policies and programs - not the Space Program. The education program in this country needs to be over-halled. Look at other counties' succesfull programs. This country is soft to the teacher's union - rather than soft to our children. If you want succesful students - fund the students (education coupons) and let them shop for the best schools to go to. Force the schools to deliver a good product or go out of business. That's how you'll achieve a better educated workforce in the future. All we are teaching them now is how to solve your problems by robbing Peter to pay Paul. Hmmm, Did Obama go to public school?

As far as human inclusion to space exploration...no one can judge or speculate the vast benefits that will come. Who knew what we would gain from Apollo, and look at us now. Our imaginations are our limit.

Space vs. education?

Nick — Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:52:16 GMT

I suggest to anyone commenting here that they also write to the senator about your opinion. NASA is only going to suffer a loss of educated people if they are underpaid or cut, not because there is going to be a lack of them available. We have the entire world to draw from for educated people, we aren't likely to run out of them.

Space vs. education?

David A, Los Angeles, Ca — Mon, 03 Dec 2007 05:36:27 GMT

That kind of delay with leave the US without any manned space flight capability.

This is a big deal to me. Obama has been my guy so far. This could be a deal killer for me.

I hope Obama wakes up and realize that education and NASA go together. The apollo missions inspired the engineers that have designed our modern world.

If he doesn't... I guess I'll have to go with Clinton... not a thrilling idea for me.

Space vs. education?

Jake Hamilton, Durham, North Carolina — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:44:02 GMT

Unmanned spaceflight is of minimal use, in that the long-term value of space travel is reduction of existential threats to the human species, and the short-term value is commercial and resource-oriented. Scientific and exploratory missions can be conducted largely without humans, but to accomplish the primary purposes of the overarching program, real people have to be involved.

The way this should be accomplished is through private spaceflight. NASA's budget should be reduced drastically, putting a portion towards subsidies and payments to contracted private spaceflight companies, a portion to developing the plans and experiments, and the rest to suturing the gaping chest wound in the budget.

That said, none of it should go to the incompetent, inefficient, circuitous bureaucratic money-pit that is socialized federal education.

Space vs. education?

James, Bluefield, WV — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:15:10 GMT

Space vs Education?

It should be Education vs Jock Straps.

In a school of 300 students the football coach gets $13,000 or more a year for his program. A teacher who teaches chemistry, biology, and science 9 gets just $300 dollars a year to purchase materials.

Space vs. education?

Charles, Raleigh NC — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 04:07:15 GMT

I won't vote for Obama because of this.

Plain and simple.

Space vs. education?

Dennis, Richmond VA — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:56:36 GMT

An expanded and thriving NASA would create hi-tech jobs, and inspire a generation of students, like it did for me a generation ago. When the first man walked on the Moon I set a goal to be the first man on Mars. Now, I just hope I live long enough to SEE someone walk on Mars. That being said, our current school system is in a shambles. Yes, it needs more funding, it needs more of just about everything. So let's get the job done in Iraq and redirect funding from there into both Education and NASA. While we're at it, let's put some money into the food supply and start getting good, healthy food to those US citizens who have a hard time getting it.

Space vs. education?

Melissa G, Cleveland, Ohio — Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:42:08 GMT

Someone asked why it costs more today than before to put a man on the moon. It's goverment beuracracy. My friend works as an aviation technician, and all of the parts they use must be approved by the FAA. The same part that he can get at any hardware store for a couple bucks will cost him upwards of 75-100$, to get the version that has the FAA approval code.

What does this have to do with space exploration... I'm sure they have the same faulty system, designed to benefit the lucky b*stard who runs that particular manufacturing company who gets the approval code to sell to govenment agencies.

We need a change in politics, and I genuinely feel that is Obama. I agree that this idea is not good, but you should tell him so! You'll never have a perfect candidate, but he is a good one, so let's try to persuade him to think more scientifically.

http://action.barackobama.com/page/s/suggestquestion

Space vs. education?

jessica b, denver, CO — Wed, 02 Jan 2008 00:58:06 GMT

When I was in elementary school, I hated doing anywork, I wasn't learning much of anything and I had no motivation to try and learn anything. It wasn't until I was inspired by a NASA space shuttle launch that I began to learn. We have the means to teach young children in our country well, but they aren't going to learn unless they want to. Space is a great inspiration for children to do well in school and learn math and science. There is only so much a school system can do, the rest is up to the kids. Inspiration from companies like NASA, that are paving the way to the future, is what we need more than anything else. If a child WANTS to learn, trust me, he or she will.

Space vs. education?

Jason — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 04:02:22 GMT

I was an obama supporter until this. If he thinks taking money from Nasa for education is going to make things better hes totally wrong. NASA has been struggling for years with low budgets. As a collegiate student I can safely say that there are tons of very intelligent engineers that are graduating from colleges these days that can fill the need for NASA. If there is nothing to inspire future generations then whats the point of making education better because kids will stop their education after high school

Space vs. education?

Ryan, TX — Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:49:13 GMT

So what candidates do support human space flight? Clinton has stated that she supports a 21st century space exploration program, and an earth sciences agenda. Huckabee has stated in one debate that he wants to expand the space program. We all know Obama's stance on space exploration, but where do the other candidates lie. Which candidate will officially announce they support the human space flight programs, and will expand the budget for it (Or at least not completely end it)

Space vs. education?

Paul, Oakland, California — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:17:33 GMT

Cutting NASA is very unwise if Obama sticks to the plan, since such a position seems likely to alienate many of his potential supporters.

Space vs. education?

Public Education, Ohio — Sun, 27 Jan 2008 05:38:41 GMT

Me tihnk eoitacudn ndeeed, bsaed on grmmaer in commmens aobve. However the educational system, is fundamentally flawed and needs a new paradigm. More money, more money, more money is obviously the wrong paradigm. Don't I sound intelligent? Kids learn best when they are young and it fundamentally shapes them for all their future. They need to be exposed to everything and learn how to learn. Most of what we learnt in school we have forgotten, take "Are you smarter then a fifth grader" for example. Why? Because we don't use it - because only a few of the skills we learned in school are actually useful for most of us. I think I hear Artie Lange saying Waaahh.
School System sucks. Waaah can't go to Mars.
Space exploration is exciting and inspiring. manned space exploration lets us dream of a better future. etc. etc. etc. Keep Hope Alive.

Space vs. education?

Jordan Brunswick — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 02:29:47 GMT

What happens when global warming get too far advanced? What happens if the world faces a nuclear winter? We'd have nowhere to go except outer space. I'm all for expanding the manned space program. Not nearly enough money has been spent on it

Space vs. education?

Jacques, Slidell, LA. — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:50:51 GMT

Yea, like kids today have less education then i did??? Where are they going to get jobs after school?? i guess in politics!!!

Space vs. education?

Andrew Murph, Ottawa Ontario — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:14:52 GMT

This is the biggest disappointment i have ever read. everyone can get an education if they get off their butts and work hard. Ive seen too many people children, teens who don't give a damn about school and education, especially with this rap hip hop era of kids and teens i grew up with, you people are sooo blind to the problems, you think pumping more money into a normal education system is going to get the non interested kids invovlved, stupid way to get votes. Why don't we waste more of our money on war, and bs. If obama was smart, he would reallize that you need a very good education to work at NASA, which promotes education more than you can imagine. A huge dissapointment reading this about obama, no thanks for obama. You want to disgrase the increadible world leading space program that NASA is, well then take a hike loser!

Space vs. education?

Corinne Aragaki, Houston, TX — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:14:29 GMT

I think this is outdated. See:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/lennybellisario/gGgRqZ
Barack Obama's Plan For American Leadership in Space

Over the decades, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) has embodied the adventurous spirit that lifted this nation to greatness and inspired people around the world. Barack Obama believes that the United States needs a strong space program to help maintain its superiority not only in space, but also here on earth in the realms of education, technology, and national security. Over the years, NASA technology has been applied to improve everything from computers and medical technology to baby formula and automobiles. Work done at NASA, whether here on earth or in outer space, impacts the daily lives of all Americans.

Develop the Next-Generation of Space Vehicles: The retirement of the Space Shuttle in 2010 will leave the United States without manned spaceflight capability until the introduction of the Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV) carried by the Ares I Launch Vehicle. As president, Obama will support the development of this vital new platform to ensure that the United States' reliance on foreign space capabilities is limited to the minimum possible time period. The CEV will be the backbone of future missions, and is being designed with technology that is already proven and available.

Complete the International Space Station: The International Space Station is an example of what we can accomplish through international cooperation. Barack Obama is committed to the completion of the International Space Station.

Continue Unmanned Missions: Robotic missions provide a level of endurance and cost-effectiveness that is unsurpassed. The Voyager probes, launched in the 1970s, are still sending back data beyond our solar system. Closer to home, the Spirit and Opportunity rovers have been exploring the surface of Mars for more than 1,300 days, 14 times longer than their intended mission length. Along with Earth-orbiting platforms like the Hubble Space Telescope and the Chandra X-Ray Observatory, unmanned missions have yielded some of the greatest scientific discoveries of the last century. Barack Obama is committed to a bold array of robotic missions that will expand our knowledge of the solar system and lay the foundations for further manned exploration.

Monitor the Forces and Effects of Climate Change: Barack Obama has proposed bold initiatives to put America on the path to stop global climate change. His administration will set standards based on rigorous scientific inquiry that, in turn, cannot take place without a capable space program. The task of researching and understanding the forces that affect our home planet will require a constellation of climate monitoring space platforms. As president, Obama will ensure that NASA has the funding necessary to play its part in the fight against global climate change.

Support Scientific Research: In the past, government funding for scientific research has yielded innovations that have improved the landscape of American life, technologies like the Internet, digital photography, bar codes, Global Positioning System technology, laser surgery, and chemotherapy. Today, we face a new set of challenges, yet the United States is losing its scientific dominance. Over the last three decades, federal funding for the physical, mathematical and engineering sciences has declined at a time when other countries are substantially increasing their own research budgets. Barack Obama believes federally funded scientific research should play an important role in advancing science and technology in the classroom and in the lab. He will work to diversify the makeup of the scientific community and provide federal research programs a much- needed infusion of funds.

Maintain Surveillance to Strengthen National Security: Orbiting surveillance satellites provide a vital way to ensure compliance with non-proliferation treaties and monitor emerging threats. For example, nuclear facility construction in North Korea and Iran can be closely monitored from above without the challenges faced by weapons inspectors on the ground. Satellites can be further used in the effort to secure loose nuclear weapons and materials around the world, an effort which Barack Obama has promoted aggressively in the U.S. Senate.

Keep Weapons out of Space: China's successful test of an anti-satellite missile in January 2007 signaled a potential new arms race in space. Barack Obama does not support the stationing of any weapons in space. He believes the international community must address the issue of space weaponization head-on and enter into a serious dialogue with Russia, China and other nations to stop this slow slide into a new battlefield.

Strengthen Math and Science Education: Fifty years after Sputnik, science and math education in American schools is facing a crisis. As the Gathering Storm report concluded, "danger exists that Americans may not know enough about science, technology or mathematics to contribute significantly to, or fully benefit from, the knowledge-based economy that is already taking shape around us." Barack Obama will make math and science education a national priority, and provide our schools with the tools to educate 21st-Century learners.

Recruit High-Quality Math and Science Teachers: Barack Obama's will establish a Teaching Service Scholarship program to recruit an army of new teachers. These scholarships will prioritize recruiting math, science and technology degree graduates. Obama will create Teacher Residency Programs to train teachers using mentorship, graduate study and hands-on training to develop 30,000 teachers a year, providing additional teachers in math and science. In addition, Obama will devote $100 million a year to Professional Development Schools to help new teachers, or veteran teacher needing to hone their skills, learn from professionals in the field. Professional Development Schools will partner universities with school sites that exhibit state-of-the-art practices and train new teachers in the classrooms of expert teachers while they are completing coursework.

Enhanced Science Instruction: Barack Obama will work with governors to create flexible and workable systems for the states to achieve the goal of ensuring all children have access to strong a science curriculum at all grade levels. Obama will also support state efforts to make science education a priority at the pre-K level.

Improve and Prioritize Science Assessments: Science assessments need to do more than test facts and concepts. They need to use a range of measures to test inquiry and higher-order thinking skills including inference, logic, data analysis and interpretation, forming questions, and communication. Barack Obama will work with governors and educators to ensure that state assessments measure these skills.

Space vs. education?

Atanu Maulik — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 08:03:03 GMT

Obama's proposal to boost maths & science education by putting on hold NASA's exploration programs which has inspired generations of students to take up science research as their career is incredibly stupid.

Space vs. education?

Walter Schostak, Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio — Thu, 01 May 2008 00:32:22 GMT

Lets get serious, NASA is underfunded. Taking money from NASA will only put America behind in the most important race humanity has ever undertaken, the space race. Critics will say that the space race ended long ago but alas, they are idiots. If it ended so long ago then why do NASA and space agencies around the world exist? wake up people, the space race is just beginning and cutting our NASA would only put us behind.

Space vs. education?

KSC NASA — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:21:09 GMT

Time for a man to Mars. Space probes have been going there since 1970. Obama is old school..time for New School for an old man.

Space vs. education?

John New Jersey — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:59:58 GMT

Space exploration is the key to figuring out what we will be facing in the coming years but it also expands our knowledge of the universe. I do not agree that education is an urgent subject but it should be taken care of not now but after supporting NASA and their space flights. OBAMA we are depending on you