Mysteries in Martian depths

COSTA RICA — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 01:41:05 GMT

EXCELLENT ARTICLE. IT'S REALLY EXCITING MARS EXPERIENCE. I THINK, LIFE WILL BECOME ACTIVE FOR HUMAN BEINGS SOME GOOD DAY. CONGRATULATIONS.

Mysteries in Martian depths

DM Duncan — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 02:22:58 GMT

Wow! That is the FIRST picture from the Martian surface that actually makes Mars look like a place worth visiting in person. NASA, enough with the boring pictures of rocky plains. If you want to stimulate public interest in a manned mission to Mars, start getting postcards from the spectacular places we know are there. If you want to sell the mission to the American public, you've got to use lots of pretty pictures. www.keyhoereport.com/

Mysteries in Martian depths

Bob — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 03:00:58 GMT

whats the worse that could happen, we bring back a micro organizm that has not been around since the dinosaurs and they destroy the human race.

worse case right "wrong"

Mysteries in Martian depths

PAULETTE KRUMANAKER — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 03:08:15 GMT

HOW COOL IS THAT?

Mysteries in Martian depths

JC, Fairbanks, AK — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 04:48:24 GMT

An important message to the manned spaceflight community is being missed here, as it was in the Apollo era (though in that case the message wasn't as clear). That is: We need to fundamentally re-think the goals of that expensive,and so far very disappointing, effort. At the most basic level, we need to dump the fantasy of astronauts as explorers and focus on them as colonizers. This may sound ‘unromantic’, but science fiction is not reality. I realize this is a 'fraught' subject, but if we ever get over that hurdle we can get down to constructing a much more meaningful humans-in-space program, by making some major changes to our basic assumptions about going to Mars.

For example, we should start developing the means to send 10's of people on repeated missions to build and *live in* actual housing on Mars, and drop the idea of spending 100's of billions of $$ on a 3 person, hail Mary mission to Mars, just to plant the flag and make some footprints. To do this we would probably build large, interplanetary ships in Earth orbit. Much of the construction would surely be completed on Earth; and remotely, from Earth. We should change Earth orbital operations over to preparing for this long-term project of building spacecraft, instead of completing the USS Money Pit.

For another example, we would need to recast the qualifications for our astronauts; even now, the prototypical 'jet pilot' is getting pretty obsolete, and for this kind of project would be quite redundant without other qualifications (as evidence I give you the fact that Predator ROVs, operated from the US (!), have been used several times now to pick off targets half way around the world...). A construction worker, or hydroponics expert would be infinitely more useful. We would also have to populate NASA with leaders of REAL, and LONG TERM, vision; what we have now are woefully unimaginative and short sighted in their thinking . . .

Mysteries in Martian depths

annelouise — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 04:56:31 GMT

wow, great photo

Mysteries in Martian depths

Bill, Seattle, WA — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 05:29:55 GMT

Gee, looks like low angle cross-stratification in the pic. Is this indicative of a lower shoreface environment? It sure would be here on earth. For all of the non-geeks, it looks like the sediments were deposited in water!!!

Mysteries in Martian depths

Wilfredo Silva, Bamberg Germany — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 10:41:15 GMT

Wooowoooo
Very impressive

and E X P E N S I V E photograph

Nothing wrong to explore other planets...

But I do believe we have more important priorities.. Trying to understand other worlds while we cannot understand ours is pitiful.

Just imagine how many children, families, schools, and universities we can help with all those billion of dollars we expend in this ridiculous space colonization.

So far what is the benefit for all of us with these expenditures? And if someone is getting the benefit who is/are he/she/they? Because so far the only thing I getting is to see a picture that is not different from the Colorado Canyon.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Don Blecha, Panama City, Florida — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 11:44:59 GMT

Great picture, but I would like to see silhouette of a person superimposed in the picture or something like that so I could invision what I am looking at. Is this cliff 1000ft high or 2ft high.

Mysteries in Martian depths

edwards, rigby, idaho — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:10:14 GMT

Enough with the $$$ and political talk . . . look at the picture . . . isn't your breath just taken away. I could just stick my hand out that window and touch Mars. Wow!

Mysteries in Martian depths

Steve V. — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:28:08 GMT

I've never seen so much fascination over a pile of rock........We cant exist on this planet for any length of time anyhow.
The lack of gravity would be the most obvious detriment.......our bodies cant take that for any length of time and be expected to be "normal".
Plus it appears this rock is in the middle of a very bad drought :) jk
Another point to consider......Unless we build shielded vessels to deliver us there, our astronauts and crew would be horribly irradiated by the time they arrived, happy landings :P
Imagine tring to deal with the yearly dust-a-thon and its associated winds.

Hey Neat Rock!!........Ok folks move on -lol

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Paul Contursi — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 13:12:51 GMT

This rover mission is a tremendous acheivement. Here we are, nearly four years into a mission that was supposed to last about three months! We've gotten some fantastic science, helped paved the way for the human explorers to follow and the rovers are still going strong. Spirit and Opportunity are the enegizer bunnies of planetary exploration.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Earth Lover, Planet Earth — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 13:44:31 GMT

Pretty picture. However I wonder how far the civilzation of Earth would right now or 10yrs from now if all that time and money was spent on medical, fuel or power that isnt so wastefull and the environment. Even the probability of getting out of our solar system isnt even close for who knows how many life times. We need a here and now.

Mysteries in Martian depths

daniel — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:18:43 GMT

i wish they had a science based on degeneration -with a name like erosionology. it seems everything that moves and builds up over time gets to a point of where it starts to degenerate -say the second half of a life cycle of things that exist -regaurdless of volume -material composition and timing .of existence -if we had this type of study in effect we could make things last a lot longer in harsher environments -and know what reacts with what and how badly for what duration -that would give us better understanding of cause effect projects and what works best in what systems and what is mixed with what to prolong existence duration .in what environments .i think these issues need to be addressed before human life on mars is threatened .

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Tobal, Clinton, MA — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:28:40 GMT

With the trillions being dropped in Iraq, we'll never have a manned mission (v. Hotel Mars or "Hail Mary") to Mars.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Ghost Dog, Bronx, NY — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:30:15 GMT

WOW! Amazing Mars photo's. One day we will be able to travel to Mars and destroy it like we are doing with Earth.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Carla, London Ontario Canada — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:41:22 GMT

AMAZING PICTURE

Mysteries in Martian depths

Mandy Petrolia, TX — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:16:15 GMT

This is a awsome picture.Makes you just wonder what's really out there.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Chris Eldridge, HBG PA — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:20:21 GMT

Wow... I guess they weren't sure the rovers would make it through that nasty dust storm... right at the time Opportunity made it to the best place emaginable but here it is FINALLY descending into the crater! We are also finally getting back some good ground penetrating images to boot! It is a great time and I'm so glad we didn't waste money on a manned mission that would have spent 40 times more and not have been such a global (for Mars) effort. If people died on the Mars mission, it may have very well been a deathnail for such exploration. We'll get to mars, I'm just hoping we do it right, with colonization as the goal and not exploration which these rovers have proven they could have done better as they don't have to return to the same spot each and every day which would have been fully explored in the first month of a manned mission. Let's keep this in perspective. The more we do, the farther and faster we will go.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Phil, Boulder Colorado — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:20:39 GMT

What a beautiful, haunting landscape. Mars has its own mystique.

Mysteries in Martian depths

JS, Battle Creek, MI — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:50:03 GMT

Great comment JC! I totally agree. Unfortunately, the 'real' exploration space won't happen until someone figures out how to make a profit from it. He-3 mining perhaps?

Mysteries in Martian depths

Irene, Citrus Heights, CA — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:25:25 GMT

I could totally see that there could have been life there a long time ago. It kind of looks like Earth in some places. WOW! to think that there could have been a species or several species there at one time is mind boggling... this is an awesome picture.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Boka — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:29:27 GMT

God's work is beautiful.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Jerry M. Weikle — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:41:01 GMT

Interesting article. The article poses the thought provoking question of "How did all that water get there in the first place?" Hasn't it been theorized that Mars was a water rich planet in the past, and 'mysteriously' lost the surface water? If shallow oceans existed and were covered by ice, then volcanic dust deposits potentially insulated the underlying oceans further solidifying the water in the formation of ice. The planetwide dust storms could have further accumulated dust deposits over the regions, any liquid water conceptually was absorbed as the dust was acting like a sponge and locking the water in a matrix of dust and rock. This would be analogus to a glass of water poured into a litter-box, wherein the water is absorbed into catlitter. What is the chemical structure of litter?
Any asteroid or comet impact upon the surface of Mars would further redistribute dust into the atmosphere, which overtime would settle into the low lying plains, taken together over millions of years a shallow ocean would be buried under the accumulated dust and rock. Any existing liquid water, would try to flow outward or into a depression cavity or potential carve a cavern in the subsurface regolith. This could be analogus to the Ogallala aquifer in the Midwest region of the United States. This raises an interesting point and area of study, do methogenic bacteria exist in the Ogallala aquifer? If life exist on Mars, as there is some indications of Methane in the atmoshpere and of 'unknown' origins, then the possibility of methogenic extremophilic bacteria might also exist on Mars.
We can thank the all the Republican's in the government Administration and George Bush for spending 2 Trillion Dollars on a World War, but cannot and dare not spend the equalvant of understanding the environments of Earth let alone the potential to explore and colonize potential habitates for human beings.
Maybe the Chinese and Indian scientist will recognize the potential, as the Ameri-European scientist have difficulty with conceptual thinking and understanding and limited to developing only scientific articles of discussion. That is one area with the scienific community, they are too busy developing papers and theoritical models and fail to address the long term implication of Global Warming, Species loss, or environmental sustainability in relation to government comprehension.

Mysteries in Martian depths

William, Dallas — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:44:46 GMT

Very humorous to read this dichotomy of responses....

Mysteries in Martian depths

brett, mycity, andstate — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:52:55 GMT

everyone for and against this mission is getting too worked up here. its all a hoax just like the lunar missions ;) right?

Mysteries in Martian depths

born_7-4, seattle — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:12:27 GMT

For all those who want to stay home and save the earthlings please consider; we didn’t understand the greenhouse effect till we saw what it did to Venus, we didn’t understand the real possibility of an asteroid impact till we saw one smack into Jupiter, don’t you wonder what happened to all the water on Mars? Could it happen, is it happening here? We can’t really understand the Earth without something else to compare it to.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Alan Sheets, Loveland CO — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:14:14 GMT

Wilfredo Silva -- You ask me to imagine how many people I could help by shutting down exploration and redirecting the money... I estimate that the $$$ would help around 2 people, with the rest of the cash getting eaten up with greed, administrative costs, and fees.

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Alan Boyle — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:25:21 GMT

Don, Cape Verde is about 33 feet (10 meters high), as estimated in this report:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15106420/

If we're really, really healthy, my bet is that someone reading this will be taking the Victoria Crater tour sometime in the next century.

Mysteries in Martian depths

JERRY BRONX NY — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:27:06 GMT

"Erosionology", as it is termed earlier in this blog, is actually an idea that was theorised by a philosopher long ago. Everything falls apart in time. I unfortunately cant bring his name to mind.

"God". Do you think he really ownes real estate on Mars? Does He have a vested interest?

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Mike, Tacoma, Washington — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:32:15 GMT

First off ... Awesome picture.

Now as a response to Wilfredo Silva in Bamberg Germany:

First off, NASA's annual budget is $16 Billion for 2007 whereas Education Alone in the US has a budget of $35 billion (2 times NASA Budget), HUD (housing for the poor) is $35 billion (nearly twice NASAs budget), Food Stamps (food for the poor) $21 billion, Agricultural Subsidies $45 billion of which very little actually reaches poor farmers most of it goes to large corporate farms anymore and this is one you should complain about.

Now compare that to the average yearly expenditures of us folks here in America:
1. Restaurants - $277 BILLION dollars
2. Tobacco - $57 BILLION dollars
3. Shoes Clothing, Accessories, Jewelry & Watches - $445 BILLION dollars
4. Books Magazines & Newspapers - $50 + Billion dollars
5. Toys $50 Billion dollars
6. Recreation (all forms of ENTERTAINMENT) $475 BILLION dollars.

Instead of asking the Government to feed the poor, educate the masses and fix the world, how about just pitching in to your community. The government isn't our mommy and daddy. Stop asking them to put their hands in our pockets and fix the world and just go out and do it yourself.

Instead I am quite willing to see my taxes do what government is meant to do, make us stronger, provide continuity and maybe encourage growth in sciences and industry which amazingly NASA falls underneath.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Robbie, Germantown, TN — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 17:47:28 GMT

I wonder if it has occurred to anyone that stratified rock is always presumed to be caused by waterborne mineral deposits. Maybe there is more to learn here if we step outside our Earth-centric assumptions about geological processes. If the Martian outcrop is found to have a nonaqueous origin, then perhaps it would give us more insight into the origins of our own planet's geology. To me, that would be more exciting than merely confirming the existence of subterranean ice on Mars.

Mysteries in Martian depths

AlexM,Brighton MI — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:00:40 GMT

Recently a person accidently found out that water could be broken down into it's component parts via rf waves. (You can see this on you tube) you could heat up your
martian habitat by burning the hydrogen/oxygen, the waste output is pure water, so you could drink it, and the oxygen and hydrogen might have use as fuel for a spaceship. Just a thought.
I do not know if the process is energy positive, which would be very very good, but the ability to get water and a usable fuel source has potential here too. Love those little mars bots!

Mysteries in Martian depths

Wayne, Alamogordo, NM — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:06:06 GMT

As I've stated in the past, I'm not a big proponent of wasting tax-payer money on so called "space exploration". However, I do believe we need to put the Mars water/ice issue to bed. If there is enough H2O on Mars that can be used to sustain people living there, then we need to know. Not that it'll matter much if we can't figure out a way to terra-form Mars. And outside of Mars, there's no other planet in our solar system that has the potential for terra-forming. For any planet to be a suitable place for man to relocate to, it will need to be able to sustain a reasonably good size population without any supplies from Mother Earth. But without a significant amount of available water, Mars is just another rock that might be worth mining, but nothing more than that.

Mysteries in Martian depths

A.J — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:26:32 GMT

What a waste. Don't you think if there was life on other planets God would have told us about it, in his word the Bible. When people thought the earth was flat Isaiah told us in Isaiah 40:22 "There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell". And this was well before man had even made the statement the earth was flat.Think about it.

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Brent — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 18:56:40 GMT

NASA should put a solar electrolyser on mars to turn the ice into hydrogen, oxygen and water. Then drop grass seed around the newly formed water. The grass would grow and produce oxygen and maybe produce an atmosphere.

Mysteries in Martian depths

George McKinney — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 19:18:30 GMT

Total agreement with those saying we should be looking at colonization. Forget about the brute force/dinosaur technology rockets for interplanetary trips. Bring back the work that was being done with the KIWI/NERVA nuclear rockets - all you would need is a supply of water for reaction mass. Then you could effectively talk about flights to and from.

And for all the posters yelling about cost and spending to take care of people here - if you don't go out on a limb, you are going to sit and stagnate - look at what's going on in our world today. And the money that was spent on space research in the sixties has given us benefits: medical (MRI, personal heart and glucose monitors, etc) personal (computers, miniaturized TV cameras etc) and many other areas. How much benefit has accrued from allowing people to live and breed without working?

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Goddess,Fort Worth, Tx — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 19:20:03 GMT

It does just look like a gloomy shot of somewhere at the Grand Canyon. Seriously what are we doing over there? Nothing will benefit from people going to these 'planets'? I'm sure that's all they have been is 'planets' Where are the "dinosaur footprints" or "skeletal remains" of something once roaming the planet. We find them here on Earth, there is nothing there to cover them up yet we are still looking for 'signs of life' Come on....

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Kim, Virginia — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 19:37:14 GMT

It is scary to look up at the star-studded night sky and realize how small we are compared to the big picture. This is only a very small (necessary) step in discovering what else may be out there. It is very exciting. One must think outside the box.

Mysteries in Martian depths

JBinMO — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 19:56:58 GMT

I'm really glad all you people that want to stop exploration weren't around 600 years ago. We would still be living in thatch huts with no indoor plumbing, dying at 35 years old.

Mysteries in Martian depths

LeRoy_Was_Here — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 20:06:46 GMT

The folks who are complaining about the cost of these Mars rovers are, I strongly suspect, innumerate. The total cost of these two robotic rovers works out to about an order of McDonald's French fries for every single American. It is in the range of a few hundred million dollars. Contrast that with the newly estimated cost of $2.4 TRILLION dollars for the wars in the Middle East. Do people comprehend the difference between a million and a trillion? Do they realize that a trillion is a MILLION million???

Mysteries in Martian depths

Vernon Vincent, Myrtle Point, Ore. 97458 — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 20:14:11 GMT

I have a pondering question that i have been wondering about for many years. I hopeyou will see fit to answer it for me. If people go to the moon, or to Mars, and increase the oxygen and atmopheric levels fo the moon, would not that increase the magnetic gravity of the moon, thus increasing the tidal actions of the oceans here on earth. If the atmosphere were increased on Mars, would not that also increase the Martian tempature to a habitable degree. Thank you and I do nope you will have an answer for me I am yours in space

Mysteries in Martian depths

Patrick White Salmon Wash. — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 20:15:52 GMT

Great job NASA, keep up the good work! It's worth every dollar and we must keep looking and understanding as much as we can. Really this is where america out do everyone else!

Mysteries in Martian depths

Chaz Huntsville, AL — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 20:25:06 GMT

Thanks Mike from Tacoma, The expense is all to small compared to the waste here in the US of A. I am glad to be part of the great scientific expense here at MSFC.

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Dan O., North Aurora, IL — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 20:29:19 GMT

Are we looking at Earth's furure?

Mysteries in Martian depths

Nancy, Portland, OR — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 20:32:19 GMT

Right on Mike in Tacoma!!! People have become too dependent on the government for everything financial. Guess they've lost their own liquidity to the Hummer and big-screen TV payments.

I would, however, like to see our prisons moved to Mars. Ours are overcrowded, and if they break out up there.....where the hell would they run to!

Mysteries in Martian depths

Dan, Elyria, OH — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 20:54:56 GMT

Hey Jerry M. Weikle, Do you think that Bush and the Republicans might be responsible for the world war with Mars back in the 50's as covered by Orson Wells? Bush single handedly caused global warming on Mars by sending a stray comet into their planet, thus sending the oppressed tentacled beings on an intergalactic jihad. Our imperialism continues thoughout the galaxy! Oh, by the way, have you been to India or China to see how their scientists protect the environment? You need to land your UFO and get out more.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Frank Glover Rochester, NY — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 21:12:18 GMT

"What a waste. Don't you think if there was life on other planets God would have told us about it, in his word the Bible."

Actually, no.

Depending on what you believe, the Commandments were handed down from on high, everything else is for us to figure out. That's part of what free will is for.

God never promised us an intellectual free ride, and I don't expect one.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Nermin — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 21:16:52 GMT

Great picture. Hope I'm alive when humans land on Mars.

Mysteries in Martian depths

tom lewis — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 21:40:25 GMT

I think spending billions to send a few astronauts on a camping trip to Mars is waste of time and money..Instead lets start building moon bases,continue with robotic probes and if were going to go to mars lets do it in a big way,this time to stay.Lets make sure we can give the public back something.We never even saw the high resolution film taken on the Apollo missions[they lost the film]we got grainy video and rocks,which few have seen.Come on NASA.Lets learn from our mistakes.

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Vernon Vincent, Myrtle Point, Ore. 97458 — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 21:45:04 GMT

THIS IS AWESOME AND I DO WISH I COULD BE ONE TO GO THERE. I WOULD VOLUNTEER IN A MINUTE TO BE THE FIRST TO GO TO A DISTANT PLANET. THE MOON OR MARS WOULD BE THE FIRST LEG OF A DISTANT JOURNEY. I HOPE FUNDING DOES NOT STOP SPACE EXPLORTION. I WILL NOT LIVE TO SEE IT, BUT IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN

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Wil, Scottsdale, Arizona — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:00:06 GMT

Kudos to Mike from Tacoma!

And all these people who are crapping on NASA and their Mars research...do you really think this is all just about exploring some orange dust and rocks? No, [...] it's about advancement of knowledge & technology that will benefit your daily lives more than you will ever know.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Evan Geilich, Concord, Massachusetts — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:13:59 GMT

I think that it's important that we get manned space flights to Mars ASAP so that we can have different factions establishing armed camps on Mars. That way, we can get started at what we earthlings do best which is tribal warfare. It will be exciting to have our side fight their side and to have a military appropriation for Mars so that we can kill more of THEM before they kill us. Naturally, GOD will be on our side.The possibilities are really exciting. We can have our young warriors who are on testosterone overdrive anyway volunteering for MISSION MARS so that we can plant the AMERICAN flag there before some rotten group of ATHEISTS beat us to the punch. I am writing my congressman at once!!!

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Sam, Denver, CO — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 22:27:09 GMT

NASA should go green and stop tearing holes in our ozone. Maybe then we wouldnt have to spend loads of dough looking for somewhere else to possibly inhabit if it ever hits the fan.

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AM — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 23:02:43 GMT

Its really weird. There could be dinosaurs and birds
the size of planes living there like they did millions of years ago on earth. Even huge insects. Its creepy. There could be monsters living there or
huge sandworms under the ground.

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Carmen Véliz,Valencia,Venezuela. — Fri, 02 Nov 2007 23:37:55 GMT

Beautiful picture! Instead, I can´t avoid to think about earth´s future if we don´t stop destroying it....

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Eddie, in Eastaboga — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 02:17:27 GMT

Big Deal! It's a ROCK! We have much better scenery in many parts of OUR planet. Spending money? I don't want the government to solve all of the social problems, I just want them to start looking at the true benefits of the money they are spending. What has the billions spent by NASA really done to benefit mankind, per dollar.

Let's consider the resourses it takes to get small rovers to Mars. How much does that need to be multiplied to get even a small crew from here to there? Especially since we don't have the technology yet. Let's put this into perspective. We can use a plan already mentioned here. We first build several expensive ships to send thousands of loads of expensive parts and mechanics to space to build a ship big enough to hold lots and lots of supplies needed to support a few "explorers" all the way over to the....next planet. That, by the way can't support life. Let's say that we only spent .001% of the Earth's resources to get there. (Oh, I forgot we need some of those resources to get back.)

Then we use 5 times that much resources to build a tiny substation that we can't keep a anyone at due to the problems mentioned earlier.

Next we spend .01% of the Earth's resource to build a similar system large enough to to get over to the next planet. (Who cares which one it is.) Then .1% of the resources going to the next and 1% to the next. Okay, let's be gererous and say we can get all of the way out to the non-planet Pluto for only 10% of the remaining Earth resources. (Just in case you think we will start using resources from some of the planets along the way, forget it. All of the equipment and facilities to mine, process and store all of the stuff would have to be flown to those planets in ships much bigger than the exploration ship.)

Okay, now we are ready to take that giant leap across the great expanse to the next star system. At this point I could say that we now have reached the point that we have used 100% of the Earth's resources building and sending the ship. The only problem is, we have spent so much time getting to the great leap, the growing population has used up whatever was left.

By now, some of you think I am crazy. If you really think so, consider how many people there were in the U.S. in 1492. How many are there now? Have we used up any of the worlds resources?

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Des Emery, St. Thomas, ON, Canada — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 05:59:02 GMT

Vernon Vincent -- Gravity is rather a strange thing. It exists throughout the universe and appears to be the same everywhere. But it becomes concentrated within mass, and mass varies considerably. The mass of the Sun holds the planets in elliptical orbits with the velocity of each body determining those orbits. The Moon orbits Earth separately, but the two orbit the Sun together as a unit. To change the tidal effects of the Moon upon Earth would require the addition of a huge amount of mass to the Moon, not the conversion of chemicals and minerals already on the Moon from one state to another. And both the Moon and the Earth get a few million tons of 'space' debris and dust particles added regularly without actually changing gravitic values noticeably. We have 'added' human beings to Earth from the time of Adam and Eve until we now number 6 billion, but we haven't changed the total amount of mass within the system, simply re-arranged the composition of the whole thing.

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Chris Eldridge, HBG PA — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:31:41 GMT

"God never promised us an intellectual free ride, and I don't expect one."

Nice way to put that Frank! Learning the complete history of the solar system would seem to be the best goal I've heard of right now. In a matter of only 15 years, we've seen that even moons... perhaps MANY moons have the potential to support life. When considered along with the concept of Transpirmia where life can theoretically be blased off of one world by an impact and make its way over tens of millions of years to another (or even to other solar systems) it would seem that life would be more common than say Sagan speculated in his old Drake's Equasion. Hey, I'd love to get the UFO people proactive in thinking more on the lines of looking for life than to just speculating about its existance. A space-based interferometer able to see the cloudtops of other Earth-like worlds should do the trick.

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Chris E — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:35:12 GMT

Even the number of free-floating planets and their moons would have to be considered now into the equasion of life. I think we've also been seeing that some solar systems extend out far beyond the 50 AU range and there could be other - quite large - planets even in our own solar system out 50,000 AU where they might have been captured. That's the kind of history I'd like to read!

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Jerry M. Weikle, Newport News Virginia — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 17:02:18 GMT

Hey Dan in Elyria Ohio, just flew my UFO over mainland China and crossed into Northern Pakistan and took a look around. With 1.5 Billion people in China along, they owning the majority of treasury bills, our borrowing from them to fight the Galatic Jihad, and even the parts of my UFO made in China--lets give them some support and have them terraform Mars! In the next 20 years, one of these nations will be sending a lander, potentitially with some artic life forms just to see if something can grow and take root on another planet. Our Government and scientific community cannot get past the Grant writing phases for research purpose. Or argueing over studies and need assessments that waste time and energy. NASA had designed a wonderful concept plane, to fly over Mars and collect data--then DOD gets an idea of a spy plane. It would be nice to end my dying day on this planet knowning that twenty thousand individuals are living and terraforming Mars, unfortunately by that time occurs and actually happens I will be dust in the wind.
Had 2 Trillion Dollars, most people cannot count past one thousand, let alone conceptualize 2 TRILLION DOLLARS, been spent on exploration where would human society have been. Not to say that the military isn't important, as those individuals serving are protecting freedoms and should be congradulated for their contributions. However, history has shown the "Civilized" world the effects of spending on the military. The downfall of the Roman Empire occurred particially do to the expenses of maintaining the military presence along the boundaries of the empire, fighting the Persians, the North African Muslims, and the Germanic Tribes of Northern Europe. What would have possibly occurred had the science and education fields of the Roman Empire took precedence over the Military costs. The Civilized world would not have had the Dark Ages.
At least, if China or India, can allocate their science resources to establish a base on the Moon or Mars, they will do so without all the 'beauratic' restrictions that occur in this country. Time to go to WalMart for a new Ion Drive, my UFO just took a hit from the Iranian Nuclear SHARAD Missle!

Mysteries in Martian depths

JC, Fairbanks, AK — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 05:20:13 GMT

Since I started what turned out to be a thread that diverged from the picture Mr. Boyle put forth:

1. The whole, full-resolution image can be found here:
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/
gallery/press/opportunity/20071029a.html
If you take a look at it you'll have a hard time finding any rocks that *aren't* finely layered. And, no, layering by itself does not neccessarily imply deposition by water; other evidence is neccessary.

2. I can never remember how many 'c's some words have, so I'm sure I've wrecked it above.

3. Thanks Alan for posting the approximately true-color version, instead of the ‘false-color’ one adjusted to make it more pleasing to human eyes. As anyone can see from the true-color images, “Blu-Blockers” sunglasses will probably never be a big seller on Mars.

4. With its low gravity and no dipole magnetic field, ‘terra-forming’ Mars, as far as its atmosphere goes, is not likely to be a simple matter of just finding a way to add to its atmosphere (the movie “Total Recall” notwithstanding.).

Other comments:

To Wilfredo: All those Billions? To date the MERS have cost about $1 Billion….over 8 years…..

To Edwards of Rigby: Yeah . . . . wow! You and I may never see it with our own eyes, in person, but I hope someday ‘We’ will.

To Daniel: “i wish they had a science based on degeneration -with a name like erosionology.” This is part of the subfield of Geomorphology, D . . .

To JS: I, in turn have to agree with you; though I wish greed could be left behind when people move into space, that doesn’t seem possible. Logic, long-term thinking, and even self-preservation instinct don’t seem to be our current, collective traits. Also, He3 on the Moon comes from the Solar wind, something Earth’s and Mars’s surfaces are shielded from. And uses of that isotope are not well developed, engineering-wise; thus no $$ incentive to go get it . . .

To born_7-4: Ozone destruction was also first thought of, then detected, in studies of *Venus’s* atmosphere; not Earth’s . . .

To Mike of Tacoma: I would add that Pharma, Oil, and, yes Tobacco, industries *each* spend more money per year on advertizing and lobbying than NASA’s entire budget.

Layering of rocks is certainly not automatically assumed to sub-aqueous among scientists, Robbie of Tennessee. There are a number of other possibilities; but other evidence indicates rocks in Terra Meridiani *have* been suffused by liquid H2O.

To Kim of VA: Replace ‘scary’ with ‘awe-inspiring’!

To LeRoy_Was_Here: I would add that the MERs have costed, in total, about the same as 1.5 space shuttle missions . . .

To Nancy of Portland: YOU should definitely read Robert Heinlein’s story “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress”. It’s a good story.

Me too, Nermin.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Dr.W, Orbis Primus — Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:36:41 GMT

I agree with those who want to focus on colonizing rather than simply exploring; the problem, however, is that exploration must always pre-cede colonization. Pioneers won't go into unknown terri-tory, but if you show them mapped lands, they'll flock to them!

As for the supposed space-ship "shielding" problem and the terraforming problem, those are just technical prob-lems and, like any other tecnical problem, can be over-come with sufficient research and ingenuity and, of course, the will.

By the way, Mike, if Ameri-cans voluntarily spend so much money on recreation and entertainment (especially when so much if its sucks!), maybe we ought to make space exploration fun as well as useful!

And To those who think money spent on space exploration is a waste and that we ought to spend it all instead feeding the useless and "fixing" the environment: If you want to solve those problems, focus on stopping overpopulation! That is ultimately the root of all modern problems: too many people, most of if them, apparently, content to remain ignorant and spit out more useless people--such as Earth Lover, Boka, A.J., and God-dess.

Thank you, Frank Glover, for your wise words.

And by the way, Vernon: The way I figure it, increasing the amount of oxygen in an atmosphere would have either no effect, or only a neglig-ible effect, on the mass of a satellite or planet.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Marko Ses., London, Great Britain — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 18:07:58 GMT

Wow! I'd go there, even if that meant spending millions of dollars on it. And one guy said we should keep spending more money on schools and such... Some countries actually do have good schools, take France or Sweden or Finland. Yeah, if Bush started spending millions on colonization while America is in such a state of bad public schools etc... I would disagree, but some other countries actually could do it... if they wanted to.

But first, I think we should worry about the moon. We can't launch a rocket or ship good enough to make the journey from earth. So either we would need to make the ship in space, first of all, I don't think that we are ready for that seeing as we can't even make a temporary living space on our closest planet, the moon, but also the moon seems more important to me. There will be no way to practise living in such a isolated, far-away place as Mars unless we do it on the moon.

Mysteries in Martian depths

vernon vincent, myrtle point, oregon — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:42:05 GMT

if the atmosphere of mars was increased substantialy, would that not also increase the amount of heat absorbed by the planet thus making the ice melt and form lakes as we know then here on earth given the amount of oxygen and methan that is in the ice pockets .

Mysteries in Martian depths

Dave Ebert Cape Coral, Fl. — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 22:19:56 GMT

I just wish Bob Heinlein were here to see this.

Mysteries in Martian depths

rich — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:32:26 GMT

humans must leave this planet if we intend on our species lasting more than a few hundred more years. we must leave the nest of earth or we will be eliminated by this planet as she has done time and time again of many other different species. Our time is limited here at home, and the first alarms of our demise have already sounded.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Scott — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:09:07 GMT

Right on target, Mike from Tacoma. Add the yearly take from the sale of cosmetics and pet food and you're talking serious money. I much prefer my tax dollars go for science than to provide a dole. War is always an expensive and a horribly inefficient and destructive enterprise. However, we don't have the ability to conduct know with any certainty what any alternative strategy would ultimately produce. Appeasement has never been a valid long term policy.

Mysteries in Martian depths

John P E Curtin, Alpine, Texas. — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 02:08:39 GMT

Rover microscopes with more magnification could detect life. A spectrometer with life detecting microscopes could completely analyze martian organics. The tilt of Mars axis could change much more rapidly than in millions of years cycles. It could change every 10,000 years because the lack of a large moon to stabilize its tilt could allow ice ages and warm ages to happen on Mars more rapidly than on Earth. Every 10,000 years the water ice could melt and sublimate off the poles and thicken the atmosphere on the lowest places of Mars to 40 millebars allowing lichen type life to come out of hibernation at all surfaces on Mars 25 millebars or greater. Lichen type life could be thriving on about 40% of the Martian surface for 10,000 years continuously in 20,000 year cycles.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Makarand Deshpande, Akola, Maharashtra — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 06:05:27 GMT

Wow, its gr8. we will like to see more pictures of the Mars our neghbour. It will be a great day on which we will confirm the presence of water on Mars.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Bob Rockwell, Massachusetts — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:53:02 GMT

I'd be willing to bet if we looked long and hard at the earth we might find the first rovers to land here a few milenia ago prior to the colonization of our own little planet.

All of those NASA images appear a lot like places here. Those same kind of images probably appealed to the earlier cosmos explorers before they came here.

Maybe one day there will be a place where the inhabitants are saying something like " In Voyager we trust" or perhaps something like " Thank Nasa" instead of thank God. We have such a small window on time and space and our view of it is so small relative to the vastness of it all. As a race we question everything, why should planetary exploration be any different. I say kkep on truckin'and NASA, keep up the good work. Save me a seat on one of these rides out of here will ya?

Mysteries in Martian depths

Looey Munn — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 06:58:33 GMT

IF we do not get more raw materials input, we will be in a Malthusian Crisis before we know it. We CAN stave it off a little by letting Global Warming proceed as nature desires it, and uncovering more minerals to mine and more land to grow crops on, and possibly more shallow oceans to fish and seaweed farm.

But we really need the unlimited resources that visionaries like Pournelle, Bova, and others have researched and that we could have if we put our money into reliable space equipment on a regular commercial basis.

Instead of wasting it on fighting nature and each other here and destroying the earth to save it!

Makes no sense to take a food crop and destroy food for alcohol, which will require modified cars which take different metals which must be mined, smelted, worked, all absorbing our rather limited supplies of energy and materials.

Anyhow, if NASA was redirected to get us out in space practically, as a top priority, and check out the incomming asteroids, and start L5 colonies and space factories using solar power directly, we might have a fighting chance at a future.

WE DO need to direct our efforts to ways to keep new supplies comming to earth, on things like Solar Power plants, best in space, and bringing up the "underdeveloped nations" to speed rapidly to help. We can capture meteors and mine them and even smelt with solar furnaces, sending finished product to Earth, no pollution!!

I am all for getting massively into space as rapidly as possible, so we can do all the things needed to protect and save the Earth.

But...... will we?

Or do we prefer to fight and blow things up and move money from the poor to the rich, and wait our doom? Wonder if the hypothetical Martians did that??

Mysteries in Martian depths

Kelly C Lumby B.C. Canada — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 06:05:22 GMT

Where is all this going?? Lets see some R.O.I!!

Mysteries in Martian depths

Corey G, Houma LA — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:02:50 GMT

What if God lives on Mars? Would it be a better idea to launch a "Hail Mary" Mars mission. Or even better! What if God told me in a vision that we need to go to Mars? Why are religious messages being mixed up with our space program? Your logic does not compute.

Mysteries in Martian depths

jessica — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 16:28:32 GMT

It's amazing what some people are saying. About 40% percent are gaping over how awsome the picture is. About 20% are arguing how we should be spending the $$$ on the things that matter here on earth. 10% are saying that we need to explore the universe, since Earth needs to be compared. 10% are going on and on and on and on as to how the cliffs may have once been in water...or something like that. 15% are saying how they hope to be alive when we land on Mars. The last 5% are talking about something that has nothing to do with Mars or the picture.

Mysteries in Martian depths

M.Peterson, Fresno, CA — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:12:18 GMT

Growing grass won't be nearly enough to produce a viable atmosphere on Mars. Most of the oxygen here on earth is produced by cyano-bacteria or blue-green algae in the oceans. No oceans, no oxygen. Or very little at any rate. So forget about "terra forming" Mars into a habitable location for us to move to when we've destroyed the earth. We need to preserve and protect what we've got here. But that seems unlikely to occur, given the pace in worldwide technological development. The current alterations in climate are virtually unstoppable. Forget saving the polar bears and get ready to adapt.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Patrick, Fort Worth, TX — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:27:21 GMT

As an old man facing the twilight of my life, I am amazed at the pictures and the science being conducted on Mars. Makes me very proud of our NASA and College teams that are conducting these explorations. Think of the rovers, truly amazing. For those of you to criticze the expense, I'd gladly pay additional taxes for the opportunity to view all of our space/planet explorations - Saturn, Mars, Mercury, etc. Sadly though, I won't be here to see all of the upcoming visits to Mars and the like. I'd gladly volunteer to go and begin the "set-up", a colonizer. How cool that would be. For the rest of you, be amazed, it's truly an exciting time. I just want to be around when the next "hubble" is launched and operating and to see a planet in another solar system. Wow!

Mysteries in Martian depths

Eddie Page — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:40:06 GMT

Its totally admazing that the thinking of people to really think that GOD made only man. Simply like the ones as AJ or this Frank Glover and who else are simply unintelligent to know that GOD came from the stars. Look at the wirtings of Ezekiel, Daniel, how about that of Jeremiah? What thye witness was the coming of GOD. There is life on other planets and that sooner than most realize, GOD is coming here. In that there is another evil coming also and the passing of the one called planey X, Niberu. It is all in th ebible and thats the things thatr make others like AJ and FRank not knowing about who and what GOD is. It isn't their fault, but the religions of today never talk about the facts of who and what GOD is and where he came from. Read about the Nilflime as they were GODS warriors, That these ones who were mentioned as the fallen angels are the Anikia. Oh, religious dogma is just that. My people are blinded by a different religion other that GOD gave each and everyone of us. In that do we really know this beast that is already here? Try the nation of Islam. They certainly will not telll you the NASA knows that the inviroment on MARS is almost identical as that of mother Earth. Read and know the facts before you take some simple context as that of religion and place it above what GOD is revealing to mankind. Weather your a believer or not, Its there. GOD said! I quote, search me out. Simply people like Your TV evangilist are never going to tell you things like the truth, it would hurt theior own personal bank accts? Mankind has about twelve years left. We better get our acts together and know what GOD gave us, what he promised us and that thesse signs are for real. AJ and FRANK are not much different than the ones who are blinded by the facts of these false religions and that the things as that of LIFE on other planets. YES, GOD told us this and that there is life else where, some of his following others of that of this Dark angel called LUcifer, Who created the nation of Islam. Its there brotyhers and asisters. Do you know it or maybe you don't care. GOD loves all of us, but again, its our choice. What are you choising? Think about it. Here is my e-mail address and we certainly can discuss this more opnely than here.. eddieandcheri07@yahoo.com... Hope to hear from those who are wanting to learn and have the proof given to you.. God bless ...Eddie and Cheri

Mysteries in Martian depths

SHARON FICKETT PEOPLES, SAN DIEGO, CA — Sun, 04 May 2008 00:26:19 GMT

THOSE OF YOU SHALL NOT TOUCH ON THAT PLANETS CUZ IT IS VERY HARMFUL AND FEARS OF LIFES ARE NOT THAT EASY. REMEMBER WE ARE VERY LUCKIES TO LIVES ON THE EARTH, WE LIVE AIR,water,and very nice weather but we must accepted no matter what happened to us.

Mysteries in Martian depths

Joe, Luganville, Vanuatu — Fri, 30 May 2008 04:41:22 GMT

In line with Bob: ...or worse you bring back a tiny microbe and it metamorphose into a true King Kong. Would that be fun or what?