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Charles, Springfield, ma. — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 01:12:02 GMT

I think that theses tests are perfect for preparing to explore mars. Why not get some civilians involved to see how people will cope with going civilian jobs on mars or even in space stations. After all isn't the goal of all this space travel and exploration to give everyone the opportuniy to travel, and even live on other planets?

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Ron Wilson - Noblesville,IN — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:46:34 GMT

For those saying its a waste of time... What else have they not done in their life time besides sit and complain ? Good Luck & keep up the good work...Remember:"They" wanted to toss Columbus overboard just before the big day too !

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Mark, Nashville, TN. — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:09:09 GMT

This story puts me in mind of Kim Stanley Robinson's 'Mars' trilogy. The beginning of the first book, Red Mars, covers a little of the stresses the team was put through in a year-long "team-building" test, isolated in Antarctica.

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Greg Deal, Greensboro, NC — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:14:48 GMT

I believe this basic research will become an invaluable source of information both for the future of Mars missions as well as the effect of present environmental conditions here on earth. I also agree with Charles (Springfield,MA) in using everyday people with skills that may be needed. There's nothing quite like the wisdom and experience of a Handy-Person!

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Rocky Persaud, Toronto, ON — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:19:13 GMT

No it isn't Charles -- I support space tourism, but the first crews to Mars won't be tourists or scientifically-untrained colonists. We need to study the planet first, specifically its hydrological, geological and climatological systems before anthropogenic changes are introduced by a human population. Tourism to Mars would happen after 1000s of scientists and engineers are already on Mars studying it for many years; there isolation studies on "ordinary people" is pretty pointless, because tourists and colonists wouldn't be alone on the planet at the time they first arrive, and exploration studies like this expedition to the Arctic was, is only useful using trained explorers. Plus, these expeditions aren't cheap!

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Annie, Grand Rapids, MI — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:37:52 GMT

Absolutely, Charles! Why wait another minute to begin destroying other planets in our solar system? We could live there and begin pollution almost immediately upon arrival. Isn't it better to move somewhere else than clean up the mess here?

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Seth Koterba, Pittsburgh, PA — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:56:44 GMT

Ryan Kobrick and Melissa Battler rock! Great job!

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Tony Rotz, Zimmerman, Mn. — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:04:34 GMT

Is there any way these large telescopes coming on line could be connected to make one very very large telescope?

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S. B. Stein E.B. NJ — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:04:32 GMT

This could also provide information on how we might survive on this planet if the polluters get their way and destroy the planet. Sorry for the depressing thought, but it is a possiblity that we must face while skeptics, like Steve Milloy who denies all science, of what we humans are doing to the planet are out there.

If we can work out problems here and know what to do when something goes wrong, that would mean less lives lost and less money and material wasted. If these people are doing by the book and clearly making strides in what needs to be looked at for any kind of planetary mission, I'm all for it.

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S.G.Sea — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:14:32 GMT

Mars by our standards...is already polluted, its atmosphere being 90 some odd percent carbon dioxide. Our mere presence in numbers would work to form some semblance of an atmosphere.
Settlers for mars could not be selected willy nilly. They would most likely be scientists, biologists, ecologists, structural engineers, geneticists,people whos worth lay in a trade imperative to the task. Or people from extreme isolated environments already,like Alaska or Canada, who can handle the stresses of isolation.

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Jeff, Atlanta, GA — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:21:00 GMT

This is useful research, but I'm becoming more certain that we will not mount a manned Mars landing in our lifetimes. If we tried and actually worked out the plans, I believe that civilized society won't have the stomach for it. I foresee a *mission success* scenario where we launch a crew of five, expecting that perhaps three or four will survive the trip there and that perhaps one or two will survive the trip home.

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Michael Tyrrell, Great Falls, Virginia — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:33:28 GMT

When Neil Armstrong landed "Eagle" on the moon in July 1969, he helped the U.S. acheive a national goal as well as a human age-old dream. Many thousands of people worked behind the scenes to make that happen during the 1960s and the U.S. was very supportive of the adventure. As challenging as it was to turn Apollo 11 into reality and hear Armstrong voice his immortal words upon reaching the lunar surface, the trip to Mars will be many times more difficult. The challenges are far more daunting, the risks are more overbearing and the costs are far higher. We may not be able to land humans on Mars for many years to come, but the steps being taken by the Mars Society should help to pave the way.

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Rick Rabe — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:38:44 GMT

There's a hint of humor and reality in your final paragraph when you say "Now that's the kind of show that could turn into must-see reality TV." The sad news is that funding for such a mission is still eons off. Maybe NASA should sell rights to coverage of the trip starting with the Arctic team selection process. Could it be any worse than "Survivor?" The broadcaster with the rights gets to air the show every day (probably with some editing) with NASA's final edits applied. Maybe then we could afford the trip in my lifetime.

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Fred T., Austin, Tx — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:47:39 GMT

Cheers Zubrin and God's speed DNA!

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Douglas Fingles, Warner Robins, GA — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:02:21 GMT

Annie; Since Americans alone spend more than $17B each year on pet food and only $12B on NASA, I think the priority should be in getting rid of all pets. We can then use the pet-food (and pet-toys, medical expenses, etc) money to clean up the environment, solve world hunger, institute world peace...I think you get the drift.
Life is not a zero-sum game that can only be played out in a series of discrete steps, we can do lots of things in parallel, including exploring/utilizing our solar system as well as cleaning up the environment, solving world hunger, etc. And if we can conserve resources on Earth by utilizing extra-terrestrial ones, why not?

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jim, Sarnia, ON — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:15:28 GMT

I think it's a great prep experiment, but don't forget, you want to see real isolation, look to the people in prison, for life, after a certain point anyone who works there can tell you the prisoner just rapidly declines in mental fitness, and sooner or later everyone has a breaking point, and then they are just an empty shell. These kind of tests can show us who just has the right stuff for the mission

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Derek Meche — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:27:45 GMT

Annie;

Won't it be better to pollute somewhere else than here? Eventually we could move our polluting industries off the planet and "save" it for you. Mars and the moon have no enviroment to pollute!

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George Sandown NH — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:03:34 GMT

prior planning prevents piss poor performance, or as the Marines would say slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Not to mention that the best way to prepare for anything is by practice, and so what if it's not like Mars exactly the idea is to be as close as possible and still accompish the mission. So good job and good luck. q

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Tahir Merali, Toronto, ON — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:38:53 GMT

Every small step that we take now will be extremely valuable when it comes time to send a manned space exploration crew to Mars. Whether critics favor or despise, the work this mission has accomplished (and subsequent future missions as noted) will I'm sure be referred to as agencies and the world plan ahead. God speed for your safe return home!

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Matt Stark Toronto Canada — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:02:41 GMT

I basically think Ryan Kobrick should be on the next moon mission! Nice work guys ... very impressive ...

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Frank, Dallas, TX — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 19:36:28 GMT

I give this kind of research about a C plus. It doesn't take into account the journey to and from mars (although the multi-month stays of astronauts on the space station comes close) and they aren't researching ways to take advantage of resources already on mars (the atmosphere is full of carbon dioxide - if you use electrolysis you can split that into carbon monoxide (a byproduct) and of course, highly useful oxygen. The oxygen that is not needed for respiration could be combined with hydrogen to make water, and there would be substantial weight savings on the rockets if you just brought hydrogen and an electrolysis setup rather than tons and tons of water. Also you could combine the hydrogen with the locally available co2 to make methane for fuel.

The researchers mention weight savings through conservation, but they don't seem to be pushing the boundaries by trying to utilize resources that are already on mars.

If you do it on a big enough scale, you could get liquid oxygen. Combine that with liquid hydrogen and you have the same rocket fuel that makes a Delta IV go up.

Without doing those kinds of activities, it seems more like the researchers are researching how to go "camping on mars" and not how to go there cheaply and be able to produce the means to come back. Maybe they are counting on machines being positioned on mars ahead of time that will have already produced all the oxygen ahead of time, both for respiration and fuel purposes.

I guess it's research we need, but there are bigger fish to fry first.

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Delmar Fairchild, Barron, Wisconsin — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:58:55 GMT

Dear Annie from Grand Rapids, MI. Wait another 30 years and see what a doubling of the Earth's population will do for us if you think it is messy here now.
Exploring the unknown universe is man's destiny. OK, HUMANKIND'S destiny. If it wasn't, why is there water, fuel and other materials out there waiting for us? ... Because the whole universe is made of the same materials and follows the same rules. There may even be another Annie out there. Wouldn't you like to find out??

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Tracey Stevens Nampa ID — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 21:15:51 GMT

It’s a neat article - however it’s not a true test of a long duration mission for one primary reason. They were never in any true danger which would add some serious stress. If something really bad happened, they simply call in to be pulled out. Now, something serious happens while on Mars. Now the nearest help is quite potentially the better part of 100 million miles away.

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red pill junkie, Mexico city — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 21:33:52 GMT

I read they kept a cat as the mission's mascot.

That might be a good idea for NASA ;-)

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Darnell Clayton, SC — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 23:08:13 GMT

Gee people, if you have any better ideas on how to run this test, why don't you post them below instead of just criticizing the mission overall.

I am not to enthusiastic about Mars in general (as I do not see any return on investment potential, unlike the moon) but at least Zubrin's doing something, however insignificant that may make life easier for future colonists on Mars.

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The Engineer, Utopia Planitia — Wed, 22 Aug 2007 02:16:40 GMT

Anne, Earth First, We'll mine the other planets later. It was space research that even pointed out all of the problems you think we have.
Frank, Read the site. www dot fmars2007 dot org. The Mars Society is all about using what's there. Living off of the land.
It was a fantastic mission, doing world class ground breaking science in extremely hostile conditions, and every one came through it in high spirits. A complete mission success. You should look at the above web site to see all of the details. No one has ever done this before, and they learned many valuable lessons for Mars travel and exploration, and yes Anne, even global warming...

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Chris E, HBG PA — Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:27:51 GMT

I don't blame these guys for trying and the exposure science get is well worth it, but as always, an automated dune buggy-sized rover (the kind that would be used by people but instead used as a robot) would allow a faster pace than the existing rover, at much less cost, and would never have to return to the same spot over and over again!

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Rock Westfahl, Victoria, Texas — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:33:46 GMT

I agree that this is an imperfect simulation but I think it probably does yield useful information. When we are closer to really mounting a mission and we do very large well funded mission simulations, the researches will look at these early sims as a good starting point. However I think that we need to use the first manned missions as only teleoperation missions. We can put really good, semi autonomous equipment on the surface and run it from a station in low orbit a lot more safely than trying land the first time we send a manned mission. It would gain much more detalied data and get experience with the earth mars passage. Once we are good enough at that we can try landing and taking a walk.

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Space Enthusiast, Washington DC — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 01:57:05 GMT

One small problem; The Mars Society likes to use the word "science" to describe what these people do but their "research" NEVER makes it into actual scientific journals. Why is that, I wonder?

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CM modesto, CA — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:00:43 GMT

I know they have good intentions, but it is all a waste of time. With a huge national debt and a political reluctance to raise taxes, a financial crisis is looming which will force the cancellation of any non-essential government programs. Lets face it, manned missions to the moon and mars are not essential and will be canceled. The only question is whether it will happen before or after Bush leaves office.

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Rock Westfahl — Sat, 25 Aug 2007 03:26:26 GMT

I actually agree with CM. We are nowhere close to sending a manned mission to Mars. Unless we have a quantum leap in technology it makes no sense. For the price of the life support systems using current technology on a manned mission we could send fleets of probes that could accomplish most if not all the objectives of a manned landing. The day will likely come when such a mission is practical, but it will be a long long time. It makes little enough sense to establish a lunar "colony" as the ARES program seems to aim at. If we learned anything from the Space Station it is that we do not know how to build a manned vehicle that can fly in space for years with no support from Earth.

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Plejar Doe, Seattle, Wash. — Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:53:17 GMT

I wonder how welcome we will be when we get there?

The tech. is futher along than you think. We gave it to you. You are living as slaves.

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Jim Needham — Tue, 18 Sep 2007 05:07:17 GMT

The very essence of life is growth and change. The Cosmic Imperative mandates that we, as a species, continue to grow intellectually, technologically, and spiritually. We are now preparing and we will go to Mars because we must - never before, in the history of mankind, has the parental admonition been more true: "Grow UP young man!"

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F-XI LDM crew — Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:57:28 GMT

Dear Space Enthusiast & all,

Great point; publications are extremely important! Keep an eye out for recent & upcoming issues (in the next year or so) of the journals "Planetary & Space Science", "Astrobiology", and others. The crew has also presented preliminary results at international scientific meetings including IAC, PTMSS, GAC-MAC, AbSciCon, etc.. (google our abstracts), as well as several smaller meetings at NASA & the CSA. In addition, we've won awards for our research, including an award for one article published earlier this year by our CASPER sleep physiologist, who conducted similar research on ISS. We'll start posting links on the fmars2007 website soon.

Finally, Frank - note that a few of the crew members are ISRU researchers/consultants. However, there's no point in testing ISRU technologies in the Arctic environment; we need to conduct these tests in Moon/Mars environmental test chambers (proper temps, pressures, atmos & regolith chemistry, etc..) in our labs, and therefore it's sort of irrelevant to integrate them into field exploration simulations. But thanks for raising this important point -- if we can't learn to live off the land, human lunar/martian colonization will not be feasible. Watch out for upcoming lunar ISRU demonstration missions, including NASA's RESOLVE. These are exciting times!