Orbital billboard lights up

scott lynnn haven fl — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 03:31:50 GMT

and who paid for this and who going to see it ? do our taxes pay for this junk we can even have have bridges up to code and we spend this?

Orbital billboard lights up

Gene, Albuquerque, New Mexico — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 04:19:30 GMT

That's it? If this "advertising" thing is what is shown in the article's photo, then I can't see what's the big deal. It's supposed to be an "Orbital Billboard" ... but it doesn't go anywhere and someone is supposed to take a photo of it? How much to put a photo on a wrinkled and rumply whatever-the-heck-that's-supposed-to-be? I understand the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale ... provided it hasn't fallen down yet.

Orbital billboard lights up

Des Emery, St. Thomas, ON, Canada — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 04:25:11 GMT

I must admit to some misgivings about this stunt. Will it advance space exploration or is it just a gimmick? Bigelow appears to think the whole thing is only an exercise in humour and goodwill, but why spend the extra effort and brainpower to establish the equipment in the first place if it isn't to make a point? And $5.00 for a shot of Grandma pasted up where it is only available for download? What door is being opened here?

I recall a short stf story years ago, detailing one man's work to get a rocket to the moon. The proof he had accomplished his aim? Just a full-moon light-show of a soft-drink sponsor, the capital C with the looping curves spread over the man-in-the-moon face.

Orbital billboard lights up

Jason, Glove, AZ — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 09:08:53 GMT

Pretty neat. I'm going to have to scrounge up some cash to post some stuff for "Flash Your Stuff". Don't know why, but I've always been a sucker for random stuff like this. Sorta surprised they hadn't thought of making some money off of it already.

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G. Behrend — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 09:50:48 GMT

It would be brillient if the walls could be inflated with a gel that hardens after 48 hours. That way they could inflate the walls, add atmoshere, and in 2 days the module would be solid enough to walk on and handle structure beams. Brilliant invention!

Orbital billboard lights up

John J. Corbin, Fort Worth, Texas — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 12:22:09 GMT

I can envision it now: Huge orbital projection screens beaming ads to earthbound viewers. Free ads for the public with internet access to the screens? Maybe, but obviously content would have to be regulated, if you know what I mean.

Orbital billboard lights up

Nancy Houser, Wilcox, Nebraska — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 13:15:34 GMT

I would hate to think thae soon Mars will be junked up with advertising crap like it is on Earth. The beauty and simplicity of the red planet may be a thing of the past when good ol' mankind gets there. Maybe we should just stay here, and keep cluttering and ruining Earth instead of dragging our garbage (literally!) out to space.

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Chuck Moore — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 14:28:09 GMT

Right Now! The UN and other nations individually have to enact legislation stopping this. Otherwise the night skies will soon be cluttered with billboards that will obscure the stars. Yeeeech!

Orbital billboard lights up

Dennis McClain-Furmanski, Dalworthington Gardens, Texas — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 16:18:59 GMT

It's official. Space development is now COMMERCIALized.

Any bets on whether Coke or Pepsi hires it first?

Orbital billboard lights up

Chris E, HBG PA — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 16:41:56 GMT

I very much wanted to send a photo of the cover of my book as part of the "fly your stuff" offer but I was too late. They did not list a deadline date (at least that I saw) when I first went out to their site and by the time I went back it was over.

Again, I think we all have to step back for a minute and say "What the heck?" Here we were five years ago only seeing a random few celebrities flying into space and now the private sector has two test space stations, lunar plans, and a very real Virgin Galactic tourist plan with thousands signed up. It is unreal the progress being made. Meanwhile NASA could not be more off course. I love and support missions to Mars but their new lander is just meant to verify something we already know, that Mars does have ice under the surface. This inability of theirs to not make ANY "reasonable assumptions" and test each and every hypothesis with a 500 million dollar mission is ridiculous. When - by chance - are they going to send a rover to look for life and not just the elements of it?

Orbital billboard lights up

Charles Lurio, Brookline MA — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 17:19:41 GMT

"...a lot of blink to it."
Alan, did he mean 'bling' or is this your typo? ;-)

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steve smyth lynn mass — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 17:30:40 GMT

THIS MIGHT BE THE GUY...
watch carefully...so far, so good...
reminds me of a group who attempted something like this early 80's...to be seen from Earth...like Moonrise...Carl Sagan shot 'em down before they had a chance...
congrats!

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K. Erikson — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 19:26:35 GMT

Truly a step in the right direction! I would comment that whatever Mr. Bigelow intends to place in orbit would also have a universal docking module that allows future bigelow payloads the ability to mate with one another and increase inhabitable volume for any future visitors.

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Alan Boyle — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 20:56:05 GMT

Here are a few follow-ups:

- Scott, no taxpayer funds were used in this effort (unless you count the cost of developing the original TransHab inflatable-module concept, which was considered but then rejected by NASA). Bigelow licensed the technology and financed the construction of the Genesis modules. The company also purchased the ride into orbit from the Russians.

- Gene and Des, it's true that this is something of a gimmick ... I guess that's why Bigelow isn't sure it's a big business. I don't think the expense of doing this is all that great, since it basically piggybacks on the camera and communication system that's required for getting telemetry as well as orbital imagery back and forth. This does remind me of JP Aerospace's advertising effort, which uses high-altitude balloons rather than orbital spacecraft:

http://www.jpaerospace.com/whatsnew.html

Frankly, JP Aerospace's effort is more attractive now, because you're able to see a great planetary vista in the background and there's video capability as well. The interesting thing about Bigelow is that you can upload a whole bunch of imagery over a long period. The drawback is that you can't really have an Earth view in the background because the projected image would be washed out by the sunlight. There's have to be a different system (LCD display?) in order to get the kind of look you get with a JP picture.

- I don't think the "ugly space billboard" would ever be a concern with projections on spacecraft. Under the best of circumstances, such spacecraft would be visible only as a blip from Earth. If Bigelow follows through on his plan for Sundancer, it might be a tiny blue and amber flashing blip, but still a blip that would be much less noticeable than a passing airplane.

- Charles, there's always the possibility Bigelow said "bling" instead of "blink" ... That would be a cooler thing to say, and if someone from Bigelow Aerospace can confirm that's what he said, I'll gladly change it. But I did hear "blink," and it was consistent with the off-the-cuff tone of my conversation with him. It really did sound as if he's still thinking this thing through, and I'll be really curious to hear whether this "Flash Your Stuff" idea takes hold.

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Rich, Las Vegas NV — Sat, 04 Aug 2007 20:58:23 GMT

My hat is off to the Bigelow Group.
1. Finding a way to profit from over a century of Sci-Fi (Jules Vern, would be digging this, big time...)
2. Seeing the opportunity
3. going for it
Everything America stands for in this native born citizen's opinion... One of the respondents mentioned something that reminded me of a clip from Bladerunner - even a little shocking to think about seeing ads in the night sky even the little night sky visible in Southern Nevada !!! Way to go !!!

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Hunter Scott — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 02:33:49 GMT

Anybody who thinks this is a good idea is an idiot. You must also like going to some pristine place and seeing candy wrappers, beer cans, and cigarette butts littering the ground. I suggest that, before you defile it, go to some dark place, look up at the stars, and take it in. Do you want to see a Coka-Cola or McDonald's ad streak across in front of your eyes at that moment? Damn, we have lost touch with the universe! I propose that every human who knows about this, contact Mr. Bigalow and let him know how bad an idea this is. I will not do business with any company who "advertises" in this way.

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Jim, Great Falls, MT — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 02:52:55 GMT

I hope giant orbiting billboards are built. Many thanks to Bigelow, JP Aerospace and anyone else who have the balls to think and dream big.

Scott - Bigelow paid for this. You don't like it, get in line.

Nancy - just curious. Are you living off "beauty and simplicity" here on Earth? Or are you one of "so-called" lovers of nature while driving your SUV and sipping a latte?

Chuck - <laughing>... good luck with that. The United Nations is the last place I'd go to find legislation to stop anything. And if the U.N. did pass some PoS law banning this... I'd ignore it.

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Patt Karr — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 12:07:44 GMT

A million poets, songwriters and just plain old romantics will have to adjust. Have we really come to this, I hope not.

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Ray, PA — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 13:16:45 GMT

I don't know what everyone is worried about ... this (and JP's ads on their near-space balloons) is just information projected on a screen, photographed into a camera, and sent to a computer on Earth. It doesn't clutter anything like a billboard would. The satellite is there anyway.

Now, intentionally blowing up your own weather satellite, as China's government did, and creating a huge, dangerous swarm of debris in orbit when there are people and lots of satellites (including Earth observation satellites environmentalists should be hugely in favor of) ... now there's real space pollution you should be severely condemn, and consider in your purchasing decisions.

Huge billboards in space that can be read from Earth are a totally different subject. On the whole it sounds like a good thing, since it would require us to develop more expertise and business launching payloads and deploying large lightweight structures. These are the same skills we'd need to do environment-friendly things of much more consequence than irritaton to sky-gazers, like solar power satellites and solar sails. I'm a star-gazer, and, considering the huge benefits, I can deal with it, just like I can deal with pesky birds, clouds, airplanes and heat waves getting in my way.

As for people cluttering Mars ... there's not much to worry about there, since noone is going there now. Certainly having a society there big enough to clutter it is at best way off in the future. Again the pros outweigh the cons. Any settlers there will have to be conscious of things like recycling, and in fact would have to take recycling to such an extreme in order to survive that they would give us on Earth much better recycling abilities. Almost any move of industry off of Earth to space is good environmentally since there's a complex biosphere here.

However, none of this will happen without entrepreneurs like Bigelow taking the risks (of money, as well as personal time) to open up space.

One thing I'm curious about is what Bigelow is thinking about the America's Space Prize now that 1 of the 2 COTS competitors might not be able to complete their next milestone. Whether or not that happens, it's apparent that it's not a sure thing that reasonably cheap and reliable transportation will be available for Bigelow. Would it make sense to Bigelow to adjust the prize so COTS competitors (or other potential ISS suppliers) are eligible for the prize? ie make the technical, schedule, and government funding requirements less strict so perhaps potential commercial ISS suppliers would have more incentive to design their systems to be able to work for Bigelow stations, too? I'm sure this could be done while still giving preference to anyone that meets the original requirements (and noone is expected to meet them anyway).

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a p garcia — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 17:06:28 GMT

Just leave the "Docking Light On".

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Peter Seattle, WA — Sun, 05 Aug 2007 21:31:45 GMT

I have a revelation for all you naysayers! A use for this that is unmatched and can single handingly give this "gimmick" purpose.

Post up the words "Will you marry me?" with a picture of your sweetie and you!!! Seriously, how impressive would that be? Using a space station to propose! My girl and me have been talking about marriage... I'm tempted to do this! :)

PS: It may be a gimmick but at least we've finally got CREATIVE thinking people working on space technology now!!!

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Tony Webb - Wilmington, North Carolina — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 00:12:39 GMT

In 1993, faced with the Space Billboard project, U.S. Congressman Ed Markey introduced a bill that banned all U.S. advertising in space. This was amended by Section 70102 of title 49 of the U.S. Code to only cover obtrusive advertising, thus allowing sponsorship deals where the logo is placed on the rocket or an astronaut's clothing. Since May 2005 the FAA has been in charge of enforcing this law.

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Alan Boyle — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 03:00:11 GMT

Really interesting, Tony. Sounds like Bigelow's project would be OK, though the idea of flashing lights visible from Earth would be more questionable.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/
uscode49/usc_sec_49_00070102----000-.html

Here's the text:

“Obtrusive space advertising” means advertising in outer space that is capable of being recognized by a human being on the surface of the Earth without the aid of a telescope or other technological device.

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Gene, Albuquerque, New Mexico — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 06:05:56 GMT

The whole thing reminds me of the flood of articles back in the mid-to-late 1950's ... concerning the quickest way to get something (anything) to the Moon ahead of the Soviets. In those days, the people with little imagination didn't think radio and TV signals would be able to make it back so how do you prove your proble hit the Moon? Easy. The whole deal was actually very much like a modern-day paintball gun and the payload was a giant paintball. I remember seeing a picture of the Moon on the cover of a science magazine ... with a big red blotch on it. I guess that would prove that they made it to the Moon ... and, only a few people complained about the idea! Fortunately, the new NASA nixed the idea.

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steve smyth lynn mass — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 10:14:22 GMT

my question is...what happens if someone launches, and displays such an 'obtrusive' object...who's gonna shoot it down?
say I launch Gaia Two as a huge photovoltaic mylar balloon, reinforced with a kevlar wrap...which keeps her from expanding beyond tensegrity.
she fires the compressed air rocket, achieves near space, and continues on via solar powered...by the mylar...propulsion ad infinitum.
sometimes in orbit...sometimes lower...
it's doable...solar power could keep the interior lit like the Hood Milk Airship...a local Boston area promotional vessel, which is really nice to observe...
what's the problem, and?...seriously...what would be done about it?

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Frank Glover — Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:27:48 GMT

Scott, unless you're a Bigelow investor of some kind, no, it's not your money. Remember, this isn't NASA.

Des, it's to advance space *commercialization,* not necessarily exploration (though you may get dual-use exploration technologies out of business applications faster than waiting for a government agency to develop them)

And even ISS is little more than a point of light, when observed. Would that launching mass into LEO were cheap enough that something big enough to be an orbiting billboard eyesore was even a practical threat. (and expect astronomers to be first in line, opposing it) For now, it's more like the corporate logos on NASCAR and other pro racing vehicles...

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Des Emery, St. Thomas, ON, Canada — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 05:39:01 GMT

Frank Glover - I've always been a little naive, but I can agree that some commercialization of space is to be expected and indeed hoped for as spin-offs of any enterprise. But my lexicon contains the word "exploration" before "commercialization."

Bigelow formerly made it obvious that he was trying to establish a "hotel" up there, and had intentions to make a million flying people into orbit for a vacation. Maybe he realized that the lure of bouncing around for a week would not result in thrills but rather in throw-ups, and the fascination of trying out velcro tethers would not make sex more fun but only more work and cause not a little bit of frustration. So the idea of broadcasting advertising from the blimp was born. Personally, I never read ads because the industry is politicized and out-of-touch with reality. Much like the corporate logos on racecar drivers. Isn't there enough advertising space already on Earth?

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Frank Glover, Rochester, NY — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:54:07 GMT

Nevertheless, if that's where the money is, it'll get humans in space on a regular basis (that's *my* goal) faster than waiting for governments to spend taxpayer money, not very efficently, to get only a handful of (mostly) their employees out there a bare handful of times a year, or launch probes with similar frequency.

If a decent transportation infrastructure comes about for commercial reasons, then far more people and institutions get a shot, whatever their individual reasons (including pure research) might be. I don't want to see good science not done for lack of (affordable) flight opprotunites, either.

If that means riding on the coattails of a tourist or other commercial launcher, so be it.

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Frank, Dallas, TX — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 20:58:26 GMT

"Now, intentionally blowing up your own weather satellite, as China's government did, and creating a huge, dangerous swarm of debris in orbit when there are people and lots of satellites (including Earth observation satellites environmentalists should be hugely in favor of) ... now there's real space pollution you should be severely condemn, and consider in your purchasing decisions."

You mean like when the United States shot down one of its own satelites (specifically the P78 SolWind, on September 13, 1985?)

Oh, the ironic hypocrisy... Can't buy American, can't buy Chinese, what's left?

Speaking of not buying things, I think most any would-be advertiser of a space billboard would realize the consumer backlash against whatever would be advertised on it. The idea will never get off the ground.

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John Powell — Wed, 08 Aug 2007 04:26:40 GMT

Just like the consumer backlash on baseball teams for ads at the stadiums, just like the backlash on Southwest for having their logo on the plane, just like the amazing backlash against football teams for having ads during the Super Bowl.

I refuse to submitt to the double standard. If it's good enough for the sports team, it's good enough for the science team. We nerds win.

Ads on our vehicle help pay for missions. No taxpayer dollars here. Hundreds of students fly experiments for free on every one of our flights. Our vehicle is only feet tall and the ads are only 4 inches tall. Compare that to an airline logo on a 747.

If an ad is benefiting stockholders of a beer company everyone is OK with it. If it benefits humanity's reach to space, we better shoot them down? I really don't understand.

John Powell
President
JP Aerospace, America's OTHER Space Program
www.jpaerospace.com
Proudly flying our customers ads to the edge of space.

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Gene A Dees — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 05:40:09 GMT

I don't think we have much to worry about from space advertising. Considering that most of us live in or near cities, nowadays, and next to no one could tell you if the Moon was full or crescent or not there at all last night, then I don't think "space advertising" will be much of a threat to our eyeballs. Light pollution has pretty much wrecked the night sky view and who the heck looks up anymore? Back when I lived at 7,500-feet in New Mexico and had a 10,884 foot mountain between me in Albuquerque's city lights, I could see stuff in the sky that I could only see in books before ... but, my health deteriorated and I couldn't take the altitude anymore and down out of the mountain I had to move. I don't see ANYTHING anymore and I have to hunt for the Moon in amoungst all the human-planted trees down here next to the Rio Grande. So ... if, suddenly, there is a huge space-based color billboard that says: "HEAD-ON! Apply Directly to the Forehead!" rising in the west every 90-or-so minutes, then I will have to hear about it on the evening news like the rest of you. They could show naked ladies all night long high in the sky and I'd never see them. So, maybe space-based advertising is a none-starter for the reason that not very many people could see it.

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Bryan, Corvallis MT — Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:41:04 GMT

Um, why is this still being discussed as a viable option? Do you know how enormous a billboard in space would have to be in order to read it on earth? Not to mention the cost of getting it there, maintaining it, and keeping it in orbit. While in orbit, it also has to maintain a path that does not interfere with any other satellite currently circling the globe. Get real people, it is not an option nor will it ever be. It is simply not economically and hardly physically possible to do. The sign would have to be as large as the state Nevada and you would still not be able to read the print!

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Zak Reimer, Columbus, Montana — Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:00:58 GMT

Making the night sky a new advertising medium may be one of the most foolish ventures of our time. Astronomers rely on a clear night to make their observations. Not many people realize today but even a streetlamp that directs part of its light upward contributes to light pollution that make our millions of dollars worth of space observing tools more and more inefficient. So even if they are tiny dots of light in the sky they will contribute to the blocking effect that obstructs what we humans should really be looking for in the sky.

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SteveO, Illinois — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 17:23:03 GMT

I would LOVE to see a GIANT, inflatable Coke can
passing overhead every night. Something hundreds of
meters long. Large enough to see the red color with
the unaided eye. Large enough to read the word "COKE"
with binoculars.