Satellite spots secret sub

brian — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 02:07:54 GMT

Golly, Lets give them all the technology and money they need to become a global power. Gotta love the great USA.

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William, OK — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 03:14:51 GMT

Maybe their goal is to figure out what everyone's reaction is? Figure out who will side with who? And to show that China is a global power. Should we stop buying things that say "Made in China?

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Wes Maughan, Chadds Ford, PA — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 03:38:16 GMT

I have been involved in military and foreign affairs for 35 years. There is a thing called the Military/Industrial complex that feeds on fear. Each nation has one. The more powerful the nation the larger the industry.

The internet, commercially owned satelites and email are tremendous tools that can distribute real information and knowledge to everyone. With knowledge comes understanding ... with understanding comes friendship/partnership.

These technologies empower we the people and give us a reliable and largely superior information source than the military systems that our governments create and control.

I think this is a very exciting time in history ... when knowledge and logic can trump fear and suspicion ... because "we the people" can see for ourselves what is going on and can draw our own conclusions.

6 billion spies is a formidable force. Give the technology to the people and hold on.

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Bob, minneapolis, MN — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 03:49:45 GMT

The military is not in the business of giving anything, have you noticed politicians are the one publicizing sharing (giving) technology. usually something the other side probably already have. it makes for good international relations...Besides it is in our interest that they have an interest in national self preservation. At least you can bargain with instead of those other idiots (Name left out)...

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Runner TenKay — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 04:22:41 GMT

Any one of these nuclear or biological weapons will destroy life on earth as we know it.

Just one and that doesn't mean it may be the only one. One can start and end it all!

So many weapons, more are always being built.

Bigger, better, faster, smarter, etc. etc. etc..

There's only one result.

DEATH

What the hell is wrong with the human race?

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Chris Eldridge, Harrisburg PA — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 05:51:24 GMT

A little AAMD (Arsenals of ABSOLUTE Mass Destruction), eh? I wonder if Bush plans more provocative fly-bys of this naval base like he did before 9/11 with a spy plan that almost crashed? It's surely a dangerous path to tread to think that our armies can't be beaten or that we can do no wrong in a world with such an 'even' nuclear playing field. As a rogue superpower, the US is forcing all other nations to harden their positions and spend more on weapons. If anyone wanted to know how the world felt in the late '30s, just look around.

When we look at 'nature' we see in nearly all species a tendency to fight and to even kill the cubs of other males. Even dolphins form up in groups to attack other dolphins, which they suggested was a trait meant for enhancing survival.

Bearing this 'detached' perspective in mind, I've come to the conclusion that it is up to the public (you know... the ones asked to actually do all the fighting for the powers that be) to lift themselves up by the boot heals and secure their own lives knowing that such things happen, will happen, and are virtually inevitable given our own weaknesses. I've always said as I worked feverishly thought the 1990s that it is during the good times that we must to the most to prepare. Once you enter into the bad times there becomes little you can do.

Part of the preparation I recommend is for families to build very functional 'emergency-enhanced' home designs in the four- to seven-bedroom range that will allow us to meet the demands we can easily see coming. Since the preparations for any one type of war, disaster or pandemic are virtually identical to the other, we can think of such added preparations as good to do regardless. I hardly thing we need bunkers but some added bedroom capacity to help us cope with times of mass evacuations and so on are even the types of preparations that are good during economic downturns where people like me lose their job and are forced to return home.

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Billie Bob Thornblower — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 06:34:07 GMT

Really, can you be so ignorant to speculate on what China's Global Intentions are?? Get serious, they are a thriving country with billions, maybe trillions of US money they have purchased, what better way to overthrow us then by bankrupting us. They are the worlds biggest polluters and once they kill their own country , they have to go somewhere. One day their subs will appear at all our port areas with their missles and say, "Hi this is now the new China".

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Jet — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 06:39:35 GMT

If the chinese quality control and profiteering culture is anything to go by, the sub will probably just manage to reach Taiwan before it developes a leak and has to return back to base for repairs.

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Ned, Wisconsin — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 10:18:56 GMT

I keep reading that the U.S. is the "sole superpower" in the world. This story, and many others, show how foolish this claim is. In a nuclear, industrialized world, the military power of the U.S. is quite limited. If you doubt it, look at the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The U.S. has lost both wars, against primitively equipped oponents. War is something developed nations need to avoid -- because war no longer "works," in this era of assymetrical war and insurgencies.

Thanks for reading.

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Ben, Bangkok — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:05:36 GMT

It's actualy about "The more millitary one single nation has ,the more power it has to control world economic"

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Joe B, Tampa, FL — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:48:35 GMT

We have them, why shouldn't they? Do we really expect the rest of the world to wield rocks and clubs while we have subs with dozens of Tritons swimming the seas? I think in the coming decades China will become a major ally, and if not a formidable foe. Lets hope our leaders can keep it peaceful.

Just my 2 cents.

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ZackG., Indianapolis, IN — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:28:59 GMT

Just a quick response to Brian -
We don't give the Chinese money - we borrow from them. They own a significant portion of our public debt in the form of treasury securities. The only country that owns more is Japan.

And to William -
I suppose we could collectively as a consumer base quit purchasing items that were "Made in China," but American business (large and small) will continue to outsource parts and labor to the Chinese in an effort to make a larger profit on the goods that we continue to recognize as "American." The better solution would be to insist on country of orgin declarations on all goods sold in the U.S., and make our purchasing decisions based on some real information.

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Rodney, Atlanta — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:40:17 GMT

Look further north up the coast and you will see an aircraft carrier either in construction or repair. I think their intentions are clear, they see themselves as the rightful global power since after all they have the majority of the population in their borders. They have the majority of the world dependent upon them for manufacturing, they are rapidly upgrading their military, so is it just a matter of time until they seek to exert their military power and will upon the rest of the world?

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Dean Hawley, Annapolis, MD — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:15:00 GMT

Does anyone remember the 1930's when the USA traded heavily with Japan? The Japanese made really junky 'knock-offs' of American invented products and sold them cheap to us. We gave away our technology which would have taken them many more years to develop. We sold them mega-tons of scrap metal which they turned into bombs. Does anyone see a pattern here? Good grief, doesn’t anyone know any history? ... and China keeps rattling its sabres!

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djcercone — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:29:26 GMT

ah, mr clinton allowed the chinese to get the ability to fire ICBM rockets from a fund raiser who ran a big company. They allowed other technology to be shared with china and big business donors

Hillary will do the same. They care only about the socialistic way of life. We now hear about the shoddy dealings with our big business and the poisoning of our citizens. Big business must be stopped in their track and their ceo jailed. No matter who they are, big business has given us the problems we now have with immigration and the imported unsafe trash we are getting from china in the name of profit at any cost.

Down with those who will sacrifice us in the name of profit, the time for citizens to come together is approaching and we will realize the founders gave us a way to do away with those who are taking us for granted.

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John Doe, Santa Fe, NM — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:38:45 GMT

Yes we should stop buying things that say made in China! Why should we support this? China is it's own worst enemy but you gotta love their way of thinking...

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Mike, Plymouth, IN — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 13:44:56 GMT

The free world should be on edge concerning China. Unlimited labor combined with world power ambitions and a powerful economic base are a dangerous combination for anyone who is not Chinese. We have yet to see their true intentions.

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Matt, Detroit, Michigan — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:25:38 GMT

I appreciate the Chinese Navy's willingness to leave there new subs out in the open for world viewing. Consumers appreciate seeing their dollars at work. The next time I'm at Walmart I'll know I'm not just buying cut-rate imports of dubious quality, I'll be doing my part to bring more nuclear equipped doomsday weapons into the world.

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Guy S. Newell, Niles, MI — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 14:57:41 GMT

Gee, nobody could have seen this coming, 25 years ago.

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Rich, Fort Lauderdale, FL — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:24:44 GMT

People get very nervous when issues like nuclear power and nuclear weapons are brought to their attention...especially when it has to do with China. China has approximately 1,321,851,888 (July 2007 est. from CIA "The Fact Book") and a growing economy and military. That's almost 5 times more than the USA's population living in roughly the same amount of territory. Below are some more details:

China
male: 32.7 years (Median Age)
0-14 years: 20.4% (male 143,527,634/female 126,607,344)
15-64 years: 71.7% (male 487,079,770/female 460,596,384)

USA
male: 35.3 years (Median Age)
0-14 years: 20.2% (male 31,152,050/female 29,777,438)
15-64 years: 67.2% (male 100,995,752/female 101,365,035)

As you can see above, China has nearly 110,000,000 more males 0-14 years of age and roughly 380,000,000 more 15-64 year old males than the USA.

Now, I as most see China as our friend and I have a great respect for the Chinese. But, you have to admit that the numbers are very intimidating. Add to the fact that they have a pretty good reason to move beyond their borders and it gets even more intimidating. Let's hope the Chinese do not decide to expand their territories or we will be speaking English as a second language.

NOTE: All statistical information above was posted on the CIA website located at

https://www.cia.gov/library/
publications/the-world-factbook/index.html

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Kizer, Texas USA — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:37:50 GMT

If their "QC" record is indication of future performance ... the subs will break after a couple of uses anyway...

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Allan, Atlanta, GA — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:50:52 GMT

If you look closely you can see a placard on the conning tower reading "Lower prices thanks to WalMart"

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Alan, Berkely Springs, WV — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:51:58 GMT

How does one confirm this image portrays truly what it seems to represent?

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Alan Weinberg, Berkeley Springs, WV — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:53:15 GMT

Got a chuckle that some guy in a war college thinks this item doesn't give any info our intel experts don't already have.

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Fran, Richmond, VA — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:57:40 GMT

Another Pre-world war II Japan in the making?

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Mark — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:28:45 GMT

so what?

Who the hell are we to say "Oh we have big guns, but you're not allowed to because we say so!" ??

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George, Anywhere USA — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:46:56 GMT

China is developing nuclear subs, fielding thousands of ballistic missiles, and expanding its air force, army, and navy by leaps and bounds, yet there are still deluded simpletons in the U.S. who think that the Chinese have only peaceful intentions. What part about "offensive weaponry" doesn't make sense to you?

After all, Germany was only interested in the safety of the ethnic Germans in the Sudetenland just prior to WWII...

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Spyros Solomou — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:19:38 GMT

This is how the world works throughout history the rise and fall of superpowers. I think technology is the key for one nation to become a superpower.

For now US has the most advanced weapons compared to other Countries. China is far from such technology.
As a nuclear power Russia has 10000 nuclear bombs and US 2500. In case of war between US and Russia no one wins thats for sure.

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Phil, Houston TX — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:24:52 GMT

The fire will come from the East.

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Goldbugtrader — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:33:04 GMT

Where is all the talk about disarming China? I smell a rat. When it comes to Iran or North Korea, it is all "we must disarm them", non proliferation and all that talk. I don't hear anything about China. Why not? Qui Bono?

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Rick Minneapolis, MN — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 19:34:50 GMT

It is nice to see my hard earned dollars at work in thier country. But...the wife like to buy thing cheaply. I can't buy a computer component that is actually made in America. Wal-mart you can hang this on but it is also the other big box stores just as much as them. You want to blame someone for this and get angry at someone...look in the mirror folks. It is you the American consumer. You want to save a buck...it'll come from China.

It is Joe consumer that will help build China. It is Joe politician that will help build China by putting our country in further debt. Until people really sit back and say America first...and hold our politicians to task and keep thier minds on the real interests of the people. The economics of this country are all about money. Whom ever can get something the consumer wants at the least amount of cost and money, they will do better with Joe and Jane consumer.

It all start with YOU, and I mean YOU the people. If you want change make it happen. Do your part and get involved.

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Bill, Upland, CA — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 20:51:27 GMT

The other day I wrote a comment saying, "Money justifies everything these days". This country is so profit-focused that it is blind to the consequences of its other action. I don't begrudge folks (or companies) out there, who want to "make a buck". . . .but at whose expense is it that you're making that buck? Are you "shooting yourself in the foot"? Anything for the Almighty Dollar. Anything at all. Is this country really that desperate? Or is it that greedy. . . .that it will cash in its liberty and security for profit? And once it has done so, how long will it have liberty and security? I know it was Nikita Khrushchev who said, "We will bury you". And Mao Tse-tung is no longer around, either. And neither is the Soviet Union. However, we still have Vladimir Putin to deal with. And China is officially still basically a Marxist-communist state, regardless of the capitalistic inroads that have been made there.

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George, Melbourne — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:04:22 GMT

What a big fuss for a submarine photo? Russia , Britain, French have this weapon for many years already. People just worry something that is a normal defense building process of any sovereign nation.

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Alan, Berkeley Springs, WV — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 05:19:02 GMT

Hey Rick (Minneapolis,July 6): I'm w/ you. Any ideas how to "get involved and hold our politicians to task" other than the obvious (register, become informed, then vote)?

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Des Emery, St. Thomas, ON, Canada — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 05:27:27 GMT

There is nothing 'normal' about China. The oriental way of thinking is not the Western way. And that Western way includes both North America and Europe. Understandable. South America and Africa are each different in other ways, but Asia is really different. There has never been a tradition of democracy there, but always of autocratic rule from a few at the top of the heap. The mindset has been established for many generations that the ordinary Joe has to obey. There has never been a revolution there elevating the common man, never a Magna Carta, never a constitution, written or unwritten, to give every person a reason to act. The only reason I have for hope is that the entire continent has never had explorers either, seeking new living space, and probably doesn't understand the Westerner's urge to expand is sphere of interest.

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Frank Glover — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:06:27 GMT

People, it's not as if we don't already have (thanks to the Cold War) a signifigant anti-submarine capability already in place...

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Andre Luis, Porto Alegre, Rio Grande — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:07:05 GMT

So China will get, in some more years, one, only one submarine that can throw 12 missiles in USA territory.

Lets see how this new submarine is comparable with the forces and numbers of USA submarines.

Lets remember that the Tomahawk cruise missiles, with a range of 1600 kilometers, can carry nuclear warheads.

USA submarines:
Los Angeles Class (Tomahawk missile capable - SSN)
- 17 ships in active duty;
Los Angeles Class VLS (vertical launch system SSN)
- 8 ships in active duty;
Improved Los Angeles (Tomahawk missile capable- SSN)
- 22 ships in active duty;
Sea Wolf Class SSN (Tomahawk - SSN)
- 1 ships
Virginia Class SSN (Tomahawk - SSN)
- 3 ships
Ohio Class SSBN (stragic missiles- 24 missiles each)
- 15 ships
Ohio SSGN conversion (Tomahawk Launhcer - 154 missiles
- 4 ships

It gives a Total of
- 70 nuclear attack submarines capable of launching a huge amount of Tomahawk nuclear cruise missiles against

one prototype submarine for China.

China strategic submarine -
Jin Class type 94 - SSBN(16 missiles - 8000 km range
1 ship in test phase
Xia Class type 92 - SSBN (12 missiles - 2500 Km range)
1 ship
Shang Class type 93- SSN (maybe LACM cruise missiles)
1 ship

That means
- 2 operational Chinese strategic missile ships against
-70 strategic missile submarines from USA.

So the China submarine "threat" is a dream out of conspiracy theories.

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David Miller — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 23:22:37 GMT

Everytime I go shopping, there are hardly any products which are manufactured in the the U.S. I'm 64, and I can remember when we made everything! Shoes, clothing, sewing machines, Televisions, radios etc. the list goes on and on. Now? We only make debts and stuff for war and send our people to kill and be killed for reasons that are as murky as pea soup.the reasons for war has not changed in thousands of years. It still comes down to: dirt, water, minerals and oil. And folks, everything else is a lie!

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Chris E — Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:08:30 GMT

"People, it's not as if we don't already have (thanks to the Cold War) a signifigant anti-submarine capability already in place..."

Frank, Although the U.S. and NATO has a major anti-submarrine capability, it has a hard time finding the ultra quiet and small desiel/fuel cell submarrines now being produced around the world. They are quieter than nuclear sub-marries and give the advantage to the defender.

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Toronto — Sun, 08 Jul 2007 20:21:54 GMT

Its too bad the US has 300 million people, because 150 million of you are so completely oblivious and ignorant. It’s sad really. You HAVE nuclear weapons. You are the only country to ever use them on another country. You supply your wasteful ignorant way of life through the oppression of other nations. You provide electricity to your homes and industry from nuclear energy, but then you lay claims to other countries not being able to do the same. What right do any of you have to impose your will on other nations?? You pump-up the UN only when it is in your favour, and completely ignore it whenever you choose. Such a huge percentage of US media is perpetuating fear by claiming that China is a threat. Are you that blind? The USA spends more money on military than the next 10 highest countries COMBINDED, and that happens every single year. It never ends. The USA is the militaristic bully state, if you can't see that by looking at the military spending numbers alone then again, you are blind. Stay within your own borders, don't meddle in other countries affairs just so you can install governments that will sell you oil cheaply. Oop's, I’m sorry, Americans actually still believe they were attacked on 9/11 because people from the Middle East are jealous of your freedom. Read the 9/11 commission report, even the CIA doesn't believe that, yet the rest of Americans do. No wonder your illiteracy rate is the highest in the developed world.

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Ron Janec Clarendon Hills Illinois — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 14:02:01 GMT

Kizer: I sold Chinese products for years and the quality of the same products was outstanding. George: In regards to their military objectives, a strong defense/military is very important to any nation. (I am sure that the Chinese people still remember what happened to them during World War Two)If I was in charge of the Chinese government, I would do the same thing they are doing in regards to the military. And I believe in the same for the United States.

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Ron Janec Clarendon Hills Illinois — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:10:28 GMT

Toronto: Your comments are very offensive to me and to many other Americans on this website. We were attacked on 9/11 by people who hate us, and we will always need a strong military to protect us from the same.

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Ken Gardonia, Spring Hill, TN — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:49:55 GMT

Save your breath and concerns for someone who cares. The US government will continue to turn a blind eye because it is too indebted to the Chinese financially to rock the boat. The Pentagon Fools are too pre-occupied still trying to figure out how to defeat third world opponents in ill advised wars on terror. All the while greedy business executives are forced sell us out by greedy stockholders demanding ever higher profits obtainable only with cheap Chinese labor. The root cause of the problem is GREED. Hope you like rice.

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Frank, Dallas, TX — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 19:56:58 GMT

China's nuclear capability is just barely large enough to make an agressor think twice about doing something stupid, like attacking China. Which is just the way China wants it. They have no serious first-strike capability, and this one submarine does not change that.

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John Moe, MD — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 21:17:58 GMT

You don't have to be very astute to understand the Chinese game plan. It is quite simple. They are in the process (well underway) of taking over the United States economically and we are happily letting them do it. Once their military has reached the point where it is unstopable they will give us the choice: Either succumb to Chinese rule or be blasted into the Dark Ages. And there's not a damn thing we can do about it.

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James Buchanan, Laurel, MD — Tue, 10 Jul 2007 01:49:32 GMT

China's economic shellgame is being exposed in their recent quality control issues. The backlash of their own Soviet style meet-the-quota-or-else production mentality is due for a nasty backfire. Their pollution levels are beginning to show themselves in the average health of their growing urban population, and despite the presence of nacent boomer capability, there's still the issue of how you put a few hundred million troops on ANYONE'S soil without a massive and unhideable build up of troop transport capability.

At most, they're a threat to southeast Asia, if anyone. The current US government may not be entirely popular, but the US itself still has solid economic ties to the rest of the continent, and they will not tolerate China stirring the pot anymore than we will.

May I remind you all that another growing billion population nation with nuclear capability and a REAL friendly buddy buddy relationship with Washington DC is sitting just south of China? India, like China, is largely rural, yet with an impressively growing technology sector, including nuclear weapons and the necessary delivery systems and a ballistic missile program a few steps shy of manned spaceflight

Why is that a key point about missiles? Simple, you don't stick a man in a rocket unless you're DANG sure it will do what its supposed to do, even if you don't care about human life, because its a matter of national prestige. Manned spaceflight is indicative of rockets with 90% or better reliability.

The US is not the only headache China will find itself contending with.

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Ron Janec Clarendon Hills Illinois — Tue, 10 Jul 2007 01:55:19 GMT

Ken Gardonia: The Pentagon "Fools"(and the CIA/FBI and current administration "Fools") have done a fantastic job(perfect) in preventing another 911 type terrorist attack. Sounds like their "ill advised" war on terror is working at least to me.

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Des Emery, St. Thomas, ON, Canada — Tue, 10 Jul 2007 05:13:05 GMT

Ron Janec is not amused by Toronto's comments about Americans. Toronto (to use an American excuse) 'mis-spoke' himself. He should have explained that 9/ll was perpetrated by a group of Saudi Arabians (one of America's good friends overseas) led by Osama bin Laden [...]. The attackers were not from Iraq, nor Afghanistan, nor Pakistan, nor Palestine, but do indeed 'hate' America, though not for its freedom, but rather because America 'loves' Israel, which the attackers 'hate' even more than they hate America, and that for religious reasons, believing the Hebrews to be apostate Muslims. And China could care less, taking their cue from America's horse-blinkered focus on 'the bottom line,' ignoring 'true religion' completely.

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Ron Janec Clarendon Hills Illinois — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 04:08:33 GMT

Des Emery: You're right. They also hate us because of our very large Christian population. It is very sad to live your life in hatred of other people and think you are doing God's work.

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John - St. Louis, Mo. — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:35:57 GMT

Right on Brian, you hit the nail smack on the head. I long ago realized that China is and has been a rogue state. (Yeah, I know I will be attacked for that thought).
Maybe we should simply ask Wal-Mart what China's intentions are since Wal-Mart is the 12th largest Chinese trading partner in the world funneling billions of dollars in hard cash to the Chinese each year. (They may be higher at the writing)
The way the US and other countries are sending jobs and cash to the Chinese is scary and building a super power out of a communist state that has shown itself to be irresponsible in more ways than I can mention in this space. (Anyone remember a satellite they blew up not thinking of the consequenses of their actions on other space bound infrastructure?)
China is a very, very dangerous power to deal with. A government that has shown that it will do anything, no matter how inhumane to rule it's people and claim rights to countries that it has no right to claim. Our government and many companies are seemingly unwilling to stop what could become a worlds rogue superpower from exerting it's will over the rights and freedoms of ours and other countries. Think the mideast is dangerous? They don't have the weaponry that China has and the infrastructure to build it.
I for one am not fooled by China's intentions, you should not be either.
We will have to deal with the monster we built one day in the not too distant future if we do not change political and economic policy's that America has towards China. We and our consumers are financing a monster and no one seems willing to stand up and recognize it.

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Mike Powell, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia — Sat, 14 Jul 2007 12:55:50 GMT

Well, why I'm not surprised. Chinese sub plus Western fear. Hope it's not a bad chemistry in the mix eh.

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Jon Doe — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:30:29 GMT

looks like there are two of those Jin subs on google earth at 40'42"N 120'59E