Toiling in the fields of physics

Chris Eldridge — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 02:21:41 GMT

"It's an embarrassment, it's a pain," Limon told us down in the tunnel."

Yeah, and probably done on purpose by a rival company if you ask me. I am much relieved to hear that the repair can be done in place! I was very worried that they'd have to remove and rebuild the entire 17 miles worth all over again. Hopefully nothing else in that thing is American made.

The way you described the lowering of those segments reminded me of how I watched each day on a live web cam the construction of the LBT (large Binocular Telescope). I began watching every day from the time the pieces were arriving at the port from Italy where it was made. It was very slow going for several years but they would hall the large pieces in under the telescope and hoist them up through a small opening in the floor. Some days nothing more than a cart would be noticeably moved. Other days they'd be bolting huge pieces into place.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Guy S. Newell — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 13:13:16 GMT

I'd be willing to bet that those dairy farmers understand a good bit more than you think. After all, the science community has much in common with the European farming community. Both are wards of the state.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Ben Winter, Ardmore, OK. — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 14:03:03 GMT

Mr. Boyle:
Re: ". . . the teams behind ATLAS and CMS will be racing each other to find evidence of long-predicted but still-unseen subatomic particles, such as the Higgs boson (thought to give rise to mass itself) and supersymmetric particles . . . (which may contribute to our universe's mysterious dark matter)."

If a particle is delineated as the Higgs Boson, such can only be an assembly of supersymmetric particles--traveling at less than the speed of light. My paper on the Ultimate Particle, will limit all particles to less than 'c' except the Ultimate Particle, concluded to a very ultimate (hu)(eV/u) = 4.766349 x 10 to the 33 power lp/eV, light particles per eV mass. The Ultimate Particle is mass 'itself.'

Ben Winter

Toiling in the fields of physics

Eric Seales, Birmingham, AL — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 19:58:14 GMT

Guy Newell,

Your condescending attitude towards scientists AND farmers is frustrating, but not surprising given that the US is full of perhaps the most scientifically-ignorant people on earth.

Yes, some scientists conduct research from federal funds (very few from state funds). These "wards of the state" as you called them do research that leads to a whole lot of useful stuff like, oh let's see, nuclear technology, drugs to fight everything from cancer to Alzheimer's, computer technologies, and even the weapon systems that keep our military powerful.

Most scientists, myself included, work in private industry. Are we wards of the state? As for farmers, European of otherwise, I cannot imagine that they have an easy life. Maybe the owners of corporate mega-farms (the ones who have the political clout to get all the government subsidies) are feeding from the public trough, but the small single-family farmers can barely stay alive.

Guy, I know you like to eat the food farmers make. And, whether you realize it or not, your life is built around and absolutely dependent upon the technologies invented and developed by scientists. So every time you take a medicine, drive in your combustible engine-powered automobile, contemplate how nuclear technology has guided internationl politics for the last 60 years, or just surf the internet, please be mindful of the very intelligent, dedicated, and hardworking scientists who made all of that possible for you.

Sincerely,
Eric Seales, PhD

Toiling in the fields of physics

E, Geneve, Switzerland — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 21:43:35 GMT

Do some homework while you're here.

The magnet segment that broke--the 'quadrupole triplets' while a notable and embarrassing failure did not impede the overall schedule of the LHC.

There are not enough helium trucks in the world to have supplied the LHC's super-fluid helium cooled dipoles in time for their previously planned '07 startup. It is a shame and ignomious that today's press release from CERN management listed only the American fault in respect to their delay, which was played off as not a delay for physics.

Note that the Dipoles are 95% or more the volume of the LHC, and this dirty little secret has never been shared as publicly as the quadrupole failure. It is a travesty that Fermi Lab, for honestly owning up to their failure is being made the scapegoat for a much larger failure of planning and bravura in an attempt to save face.

Following up on that would at least be good journalism.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Alan Boyle — Fri, 22 Jun 2007 23:22:02 GMT

Dear E.: Thanks so much for your note - I hadn't heard about the helium problem, I'll have to ask about that on Monday, I think.

It seemed obvious to me (although I've just been here for three days and am definitely no expert) that there's no way all the experiments would be ready by November anyway. One of the experiment team members told me that there's a sense of relief that the LHC wouldn't have to be pushed into service on the previous timetable - implying that the magnet break was something of a lucky break for others who were worried about being blamed for not meeting the schedule.

Because I'm a journalist from the U.S., most of the folks I met during my short trip here were American researchers - and I have to say they're a very sharp bunch who also seem to be great collaborators with scientists from the rest of the world.

The magnet problem was a bad break, no doubt about that, but over the long term I'm betting it will be a mere blip in a productive international scientific relationship. I'm also betting this won't be the only glitch that arises during the testing and commissioning process.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Mark C — Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:45:53 GMT

*** If a particle is delineated as the Higgs Boson, such can only be an assembly of supersymmetric particles--traveling at less than the speed of light. My paper on the Ultimate Particle, will limit all particles to less than 'c' except the Ultimate Particle, concluded to a very ultimate (hu)(eV/u) = 4.766349 x 10 to the 33 power lp/eV, light particles per eV mass. The Ultimate Particle is mass 'itself.' ***

Uh, as far as I can tell from your web site, you're a complete loon. Good luck on your "paper." [...]

Toiling in the fields of physics

Chris Eldridge — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 04:32:55 GMT

Not sure how much helium E is talking about but as you've stated in this article and the previous ones, the LHC has many experiments and they are not all going to be brought on line at once. All projects have a work up period. Telescopes often have 'first light' long before the actual scientific work begins. First light is just to make sure the guts are working and is often done with less extravagant test equipment. Thus, I do think the magnetic failure has hurt. Full operation was not scheduled to being until the fall of '08 if I remember reading right.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Ben Winter — Sun, 01 Jul 2007 18:59:27 GMT

Mark:
Spoken like a true intellectual, but thanks for the
good wishes.
Ben

Toiling in the fields of physics

Lowell E. Fox, Gilbert, AZ — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:58:16 GMT

As a member of the public education community, I am always encouraged by humanity's efforts to add to its body of knowledge.

As a scientific lay-person, I become disappointed when scientists get caught up in the blame-game.

Lowell E. Fox, Ed.D.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Robert Lyons Vancouver, Washington USA — Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:04:27 GMT

How can you expect a lay person like me to develop a sense that this project has purpose, majesty and value if the scientists can't get beyond petty nationalistic squabbling, the argument over where it was to be built delayed the project for far longer than any mechanical difficulties are likely to cause.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Harbog Drugass — Fri, 07 Sep 2007 18:06:27 GMT

Just wait for it and Sweden will create a sun in the middle of the earth and explode it.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Angel Navajo, Denver, CO — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:00:10 GMT

Wait foooor it, wait fooor it "wrestling"... Crikey did you see it, they tried to do the bloody black hole death roll on me!

What is the point of this stupid 6Bill$ project again? I'm a human being and that has nothing to do with knowing what some particles can do. My question is can this thing cook me breakfast in the morning, pay my bills and does it have any value to humans in order to fix the world. Or is this some theoretical mumbo jumbo that might not work, but if it does work what good will it do for the world?

Priests and science nerds will fight each other over this won't they? What a waste of 6 Billion dollars! SERIOUSLY!

Toiling in the fields of physics

F-YOU.. I'm from Texas... — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:33:53 GMT

NO JOKE!
considering all the other problems what have right now why is this such a priority... Take that money and build me a car that runs on water you freaking eggheads.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Timothy — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:39:06 GMT

Angel, the fact that you don't know what physics has to do with being human suggests that you need to go back to school.

And Chris Eldridge... the last time I checked, American producs are easily a large portion of the fine, safest, and best made devices on the planet. And American technology (that you can so ignornatly sneer at) has and continues to provide products that have revolutionized the world. I suggest that you look into the all of the various troubles at CERN and determine their sources before branding a certain nation for shoddy products (or even more absurdly suggesting sabotage).

Toiling in the fields of physics

John Dowe — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 22:26:20 GMT

Timothy...

A hearty "amen" to your your view of American products? However I have to agree with Angel somewhat. We've got bigger problems then determining the mysteries of dark matter and extra cosmic dimensions to the reasons why particles have mass and why matter won out over antimatter. Much bigger problems. What good will that knowledge do us if we end up killing each other over oil, turf, global warming or religous squabbles? If anything, that money should be spent finding somewhere hospitable to live out in space so that once we've devastated the planet we'll have somewhere to go.

Toiling in the fields of physics

david bullen,emmett idaho — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 23:03:26 GMT

this thing is very cool but just as scary too! have we done enough resurch in to how dangerous this thing is, or are we going to just see what happens . please direct me in finding more info on this program i am very interested in it, research clubs etc.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Dean Maxton, St Catharines, Ontario — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 17:30:46 GMT

I'm very excited to see what comes out of the research invloved in this project. Finding out the mysteries of matter, anti-matter and so on could lead to some amazing breakthroughs in our society. John you mentioned that we need to find somewhere to live after we "devistate" our planet but we need to discover more efficient propulsion technology before that will be possible. I can't wait to see what the future hold in scientific advancment.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Julian Ingrassia, Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 03:58:28 GMT

I'm no scientist, but it seems to me that studying these very small 'building blocks' of matter could help unlock the most puzzling mystery with the greatest potential for the advancement of humankind...gravity! This would certainly solve any propulsion problems, not to mention a half-dozen other plagues to mankind's quest toward becoming civilized. I for one wish 'em luck at the collider...go for it!

Toiling in the fields of physics

Daniel — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:06:29 GMT

Yah what he said.

Toiling in the fields of physics

David Murray, Kennedale, Texas — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:01:34 GMT

I'm uncertain if mankind will ever understand all of the laws of the universe and how it works. Every time we learn new things about physics it just creates new questions. Maybe God never intended us to understand it all. Still, I hope the project is successful. Maybe next time I'm in Europe, I'll go see the thing! (Do they give tours?)

Toiling in the fields of physics

D, Shizzle, Dildo, Newfoundland Canada, in my igloo eh` — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 07:48:41 GMT

I want to get together some friends and have a sleep over inside the the main chamber, who do I contact for this

Toiling in the fields of physics

Ben WV, USA — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 02:26:24 GMT

Spend that money on something that will benefit humanity, geniuses!

Toiling in the fields of physics

Patrick Hejlik, San Ramon, CA — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 05:14:31 GMT

Mr. Murray,

I doubt God has anything to do with it but I am hoping that new questions do arise out of the LHC. It is only through hypothesis, testing and many long man hours do we even begin to scrape the surface. If you thought the last 100 years were exciting for mankind, just wait and see what the next 100 have in store for us.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Rob Sturch, Birmingham, UK — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:23:07 GMT

Some people really are ignorant to the scientific community and the endeavours of science. Ref Angel Navajo and his band of merry men.

Do these people not realise what we are about to witness - The LHC is only part of the larger picture - A new beginning.

We are (as humans) beginning to transcend into the next dimension. Global warming / religion / war - these are simply oppressive regimes put in place to let the Angels of the world fret over the farcical aspects of life.

The real truth is unfolding - you either believe or you don't. Either way very soon the world in which you live will be no no more, and a new magnificent beginning dawns.

Peace, light and love
SolReka

Toiling in the fields of physics

Angela , Tennessee — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:00:50 GMT

I really wonder if this project is worth all the risks. Shouldn't this money be spent on world hunger, disease research or something else more meaningful? I realize there will be many benefits if everything goes as planned but I really believe that it will eventually cause more problems for our world than anything.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Charles Manson, Corcoran, CA — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:49:03 GMT

This black hole thing...Is it gonna hurt?

Toiling in the fields of physics

Harry Lenakakis ,Evanston, ILL — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:21:25 GMT

This experiment will benefit of less ignorance and better understanding of who we’re! "Please understand the basics and think positive"

Toiling in the fields of physics

colleen way, Canada — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:31:22 GMT

I can't help but wonder if we know what we could possibly unleash here. How do you contain energy that could rival the big bang? Humanity has often gone ahead to develop things that we don't fully understand the consequences of, we gallop ahead because we get greedy and think we will have something no one else has then "oh my God what have we done?"ie: atom bomb and Hiroshima/Nagasaki or some of NASA's mistakes. New medications, that later we find, causes birth defects or cancer. I can't wait until we find out what microwaves have been doing to us after all these years...Please leave the secrets of the Universe alone and concentrate on saving the planet and the human race. I'd prefer a cure for a few diseases.

Toiling in the fields of physics

t krone, Richmond, VA — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:12:28 GMT

i think some people don't quite understand how important scientific knowledge is to humankind. plenty of money is being spent on problems in the world like hunger and poverty and stuff, just because those things exist today like they always have doesn't mean we should continue scientific research.

you could have made that argument at any other point in history and if we as humans had decided to neglet science where would be today? we'd be much much worse off thats for sure. this is a great project and definitely worth the money to get a more complete understanding of world in which we live.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Michael M, Los Angeles, CA — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 23:47:09 GMT

To everyone commenting here, its good to see lively debate, if only to prove wrong those who say today's generation is one of apathy. However, too many of you find critisizing one another more worthwhile than actual discussion. I believe that the LHC has huge potential and I believe the money is well worth it. However, I'm always open to arguemtns against it. I read whatever I can on the LHC's progress. But I also read everything I can written by its detractors. The court case in Hawaii for example, where two men/scientists have argued that it could create black holes. Guess what - they're right, it WILL. However, jumping to the conclusion that the mere presence of black holes on Earth will be devastating to life is absurd. Why? Because thousands of these reactions happen every day in the atmosphere - YES, Black Holes occur on Earth naturally when cosmic rays of energies magnitudes greater than the LHC's protons crash into our plannet. We can't detect them, though, and that's why we need the LHC. And the Black Holes that are created, well, they EVAPORATE by a process discovered by Stephen Hawking. So, while healthy debate is good, let's not all jump on to our bandwagons with notions of good and evil like children arguing over who's dad can beat up who. For those of us who find strength in God, let's remember that he gave us reason for a reason. We're supposed to ask questions - we are supposed to wonder at the magesty that is the universe. If we didn't, we'd be insulting the very creation that he gave to us.
And for those who don't believe my religious mumbo jumbo, then just remember that science is based on healthy criticism - immediately shooting down all criticisms as shortsighted is a betrayall of everything good about science. Give the skeptics a chance to breath. Whether they eventually realize the promise of the LHC and science as a whole, they will benifit, and they won't be able to argue with that.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Steve, cambridge. UK — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 11:45:22 GMT

To me the quest for answers to the universe is something
mankind just has to do. Without this drive we would not be able to advance to the levels that we need for the future. The fact that man has the incredible brain power
to invent and produce equipment like the "LHC" is testament to his thirst in reaching out for the cosmos.
One has to put aside the negitive issues and concentrate on the positive, and as someone has already pointed out,
once the elusive answer to the constuction of gravity has
been found, a new phase of evolution opens up with a range
of posibilities that are as yet out of site.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Ray Hull, Prescott, Az — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 03:54:30 GMT

After having performed analyses of the "Super Collider" to be built in Texas by the US, my main concern is the amount of "up time" that will be avaibable to perform experiments. It will be a real challange to keep all of this equipment up and running for a significant % of the time. I hope that the large amount spent on this project does not end up being a waste.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Jana, Jonesboro, LA — Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:58:44 GMT

Can someone please tell me why this is so important? Is this more critical than, oh, I don't know, curing cancer? Do we have anyone that we could feed? Or maybe shelter? OH, or maybe we could possibly try to help support children who have been orphaned! But, no. Ya know we gotta find out if we can create new particles. (Please note the sarcasm)Has the world gone mad? Why can't people think of others instead of themselves. They are more concerned if their little experiment will get published in a journal. Oooohhh. Now that's impressive.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Neil, Melbourne, Australia — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:42:56 GMT

Is there any information on just how fast the particles will be going ie:- 75% or 80% of lightspeed and is it or will it be possible to actually reach lightspeed. Thanks

Toiling in the fields of physics

Cynthia Khamadi, Nairobi,Nairobi. — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 09:44:04 GMT

Hi, i am Cynthia Khamadi from Kenya,and I am doing a research about this big bang project. I am required to communicate to the project team to find out whether there is any new information about the big bang. also, i will be writing an article about the project and one of the project team members will need to verify the data. Please kindly assist me.

Toiling in the fields of physics

Angela, Oklahoma City, OK — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 04:18:54 GMT

Well... I guess it's okay for people to ask questions about the universe and how life began, I just hope that once this LHC gets up and running that nobody says or hears "OH $#^&!" - then it would be a bit too late to ask the rest of the human population on this planet if we want to take any risks, now wouldn't it?

Toiling in the fields of physics

Mike Kambeitz — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:16:12 GMT

WAHH WAHH WAHH,,,, My God... What a list of cry babies!

Relax people! No need to burn ANYONE at the stake for this WITCHCRAFT! It's science people! This is how we evolve as a species! This is how we advance to the NEXT level! I can promise you that the guys who came up with the wheel caught crap too! Oh... Lets not forget that NUT who claimed the world was round... From what I learned in school he caught a lot of crap too! Get over your own little worries and understand that a people that sit idle, NEVER advance to the next level! And guess what? "IF"... "IF" this project does in fact kill us all... From what I understand it'll be so QUICK and PAINLESS... Who really cares?!

Get over the doomsday crap and have a cocktail!

And to all you small minded fools spouting off crap about GOD... Umm... Had GOD not wanted us to do this... He would have NEVER given us the brain power to come up with it!

NOW TAKE A NAP!

Toiling in the fields of physics

Tony Garcia — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:46:42 GMT

??? No more comments?

Toiling in the fields of physics

eddy haylett, newcastle, sydney australia — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:02:52 GMT

all that science needs to realise is that " the future, is an experiment on the past...... present!pertaining to any and all of the disciplines man quantifies as the mean .. the social intellect etc..he is in flux as flux, he, his consciousness and the distribution of such understandings needs to become part of this not just opinion regardless of doubt or learning so trash will never need to be agian just more treasure!

Toiling in the fields of physics

eddy haylett — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:27:07 GMT

there is no such thing as god .. imagine holding onto a fear for such a long time .. because the concept undermines the very nature of being a, or having a intellect, imagination or the entire reason for being our very essence to say i believe in something greater that myself is a basic social, philosophical opinion not a right... opinion...... then you would be a person who believes in luck,chance thats all more hopes and fear again so your telling me you would prefer to give up the wider in order or hope that we will hedge the bet and come out on top .. thats not entirely smart, but i guess most people are stupid holding onto ideas only the stupid can understand "thanks for living over there ..and not here".

Toiling in the fields of physics

eddy haylett — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:33:24 GMT

brain power????????????? we hold only a burnt reminder upon the many lightning, that is a spark,we are not even yet ember let alone the ash around the fire of intellect.... we,are along way to go

Toiling in the fields of physics

Gary, Seattle, Washington — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:31:40 GMT

There is no god?

Please explain the eyewitness testimony of hundreds of people that went to their death for the witnessed events of Jesus Christ resurrecting from the dead and ascending into heaven. The Swoon theory... Well a novel attempt. Fortunately the autographa has withstood the test of time from countless skeptics. The lacking element? Perhaps the element of faith. You have it when you cross that bridge on your way to work, or when you sit in that chair...

How can man fathom the depths of a creator who knows no limitations except the ability to sin?

If your right, im ok..... If im right, your in deep trouble.