Obsolete chips in space

Shooter, Pomona, CA — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 04:58:25 GMT

The new speedy chips created today for use on Earth are obviously faster because the Earth's atmosphere protects them from gamma, EM, and other froms of radiation. The reason the older chips are being utilized in space is because their design makes them almost immune to the effects of the radiation. If we were to use the high-speed chips we have on Earth we must take great lengths to prevent the semi-conductor material from saturation. This means that the computers will be a lot bulkier and would cost more to send into orbit.

No matter how excellent the software is, without good hardware, the software is trivial.

With future innovations in semi-conductor material engineering, there will be more "space ready" transistors that are able to control large amounts of current with a small voltage signal (computer signal).

Obsolete chips in space

Gene, Waltham, MA — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:14:07 GMT

This is true. the high radiation environment in space makes conventional chips impossible to use. i would also venture that the ISS probably uses lots of other components that are no longer made-like plated wire memories (again radiation-hard). there simply isn't enough demand for private companies to make a lot of this stuff; so NASA/ESA, and the Russian Space Agency will have to make do with substitutes. Although, i can't see how a triply-redundant system can fail all at once - seems like that should not happen.

Obsolete chips in space

Patrick Pearce — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:53:03 GMT

I wonder if the Laptops and the Local Area Network used on board are also protected in a similar fashion?

Obsolete chips in space

John Doe, Seattle, Wash. — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 12:55:35 GMT

Funny, the fact that the Atlantis is more than twice as old as the ISS wasn't mentioned - wonder why? Was this a pro-NASA fluff piece negotiated via payola?

Alan - you're being a baaaaddd little boy.

What is actually going on, is...there is nothing wrong with the ISS that requires the Atlantis to stand by. The problem is with Atlantis (remember the hole in the wing they showed a day or so ago?).

Rather than bring yet more heat on an agency that can do no right, they are faking an issue with the ISS in order to buy time while they try to decide what they should do about the real issue...Atlantis.

Obsolete chips in space

David Young — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 13:32:46 GMT

Don't be too quick to assume that because a chip, its supporting soft/firmware and other components are obsolete, that they are any more prone to failure.

I have written systems that were capable of controlling the automated movements of material in whole factories and warehouses using CPUs that were much less capable than a SPARC V7. Many of these systems were designed to operate 24/7 with reboots only on the rare occasions when the facilities were closed during particularly important holidays, ie. about once year.

We sometimes forget that the reason for the speed improvements in CPUs is to support visual, mouse-driven interfaces. That is much more taxing than simply monitoring and controlling something like the automated operations of a factory or warehouse, or space station. At least, if you do it right. :-)

Obsolete chips in space

Allan, Huntington Beach, CA — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 14:55:36 GMT

The problem space agencies face is that the demand for radiation-hardened electronics pales in comparison to the commercial market - even military applications are moving towards using COTS (commercial-off-the-shelf) parts, making space-rated electronics either very expensive or impossible to obtain.

Obsolete chips in space

Tim Thomas, Houston, TX — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:35:51 GMT

Let's see, an East German company builds chips to Russian specs that "are based on the SPARC V7 chip architecture" and that means this is the fault of someone in Silicon Valley? Excellent observation, comrade. This month you shall have double meat rations!

Obsolete chips in space

Sam, Lincoln, NE — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:46:16 GMT

How is something that works obsolete? Speed isn't important in "control" type situations. It's critical that the computer and software do their job. That's it. Faster? Doesn't matter. Is English obsolete now that we have C++?

Obsolete chips in space

S Andrews, Westwood, MA — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:12:29 GMT

Conversely, no matter how good the hardware, without good software, it's just a bunch of recyclables.

Good thing it's VxWorks instead of Windows!

Obsolete chips in space

Space Nut — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:22:02 GMT

The reason NASA and other space agencies use older computers and chips is that they know they work. Those items have years of documented reliance behind them. You really don't want to take new gear into space without knowing how long it will last. The recent addition of the iPod to the shuttle came after two years of testing to verify its longevity. The current computers on the shuttle are new but even their technology is a few years old. However, NASA knows it works and will stick with it for now.

Obsolete chips in space

jacky jagadics. las vegas, nv. — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:41:09 GMT

A very good article. Thank you for your investigative journalism. Maybe the KGB should have waited or spied on the Japanese, instead? As long as "lowest priced bids" are utilized, or the "good old boy network" is what gets things done; it will only get worse. The I.S.S. will fall into the Earth's orbit, before it will "pay" for its self. What a waste of money!

Obsolete chips in space

Steve, Lansing, MI — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:55:01 GMT

To refer to the chips as "obsolete" is very misleading. The business and consumer cycle we experience, from which we develop the idea of computers as "obsolete", has no bearing on the operation of a spacecraft. Unlike consumer and business applications here on Earth, the software is performing very focused and specific, generally unchanging, functions. So, constant upgrades in processing speed have no real value. Also, the chips need to operate in an extremely harsh environment with very limited electrical resources. As you point out, these processors are "radiation hardenened"; the latest fastest offerings from AMD or Intel would fail very quickly in the environment of the station. During their brief lifespan, they would also consume an inordinate amount of the station's electrical power.

Obsolete chips in space

Nick Law, East Grinstead, W. Sussex, UK — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 17:02:57 GMT

Radiation hardening of chips for use in space goes back a long way. I remember chips being worked on in the late 70s (when I was chief engineer of a computer company). Very often computers for space are military grade & it takes years to get approval for such systems, so they will always lag behind current technology. Early (Apollo) systems used magnetic core storage for memory, as the chance of radiation damage to the main computer memory was just too serious & could very easily have caused "Apollo 13" type incidents!

It is not quite true though that newer processors cannot be used in space as I distinctly remember, when working in California in the early 90s, seeing on the NASA live feed that the updates to the space telescope included replacing a processor by a 486!!

At that time the 486 was relatively new - but I presume it was a radiation hardened version, or the telescope would have gone crazy during the next solar flare.

Obsolete chips in space

FTK Las Cruces, NM — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 17:58:44 GMT

Well wha do you expect. With no backup and not taking ESD percautions when hooking things up. Check ANSI/ESD S20.20

Obsolete chips in space

Roger — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 18:10:26 GMT

I have a chip that was made less then 1 year ago, and it is already a thing of the past for my computing needs, So, what else is new ?

Obsolete chips in space

landon kelsey, coldspring, tx — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 18:15:24 GMT

I hope everything is OK so we'll have data from our study of termites in outer space!

Fix the space station by having all the NASA bureaucrats fax each other and have another meeting!

The FAA uses vacuum tubes...I worked there once!

Does the space station have vacuum tubes?

Vacuum tubes are easy to change! Russia might have some or try ebay!

Obsolete chips in space

Scott Schrader, Mounds View, MN — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 18:26:12 GMT

"future innovations" may solve issues, but all semiconductor fabrication and research these days focusses on smaller, faster, and denser transistors on the chip. quantum tunnelling effects, considered merely a theory that wasn't affecting research when these Sparc-derived processors were designed, are not just a contaminant, but being controlled in current research.

meaning the random wandering electron that crosses a gate and turns the power on is a design feature now. a cosmic beta or x-ray, essentially a high speed electron, is as much space background as dark over there, light over here, and nothing in between.

so there's a lot of packaging work to do to get anything modern up in space. I doubt they can wrap gold sheeting around the bottom or sides where all the contacts come out, so the whole equipment package must be bypassed and toughened up to deflect stray atomic particles. like the old guided-missle days, in which you had basically 100-transistor chips that were encased in little plastic wafers, surrounded by large steel and gold-flashed shields. the equivalent of car doors glued to cockroach backs.

Obsolete chips in space

smiffdog, Columbia, SC — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 18:26:16 GMT

It doesn't take near the processing power to make hardware function. It is fairly simple to write assembler code to cause valves to open and close.

Obsolete chips in space

Shockwave, Houston TX — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 19:05:44 GMT

Note also that that Sparc chip for Space applications is available from Atmel today. The Comm system for the MRO uses one. Yeah, compared to the computer I'm using on my desk, it is slow. But this computer here wouldn't last 5 minutes in space whereas the Sparc would run for decades.

Obsolete chips in space

John I Doeno — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 19:10:46 GMT

That's nothing, my mobile phone has more computing power than that of the wholes pace shuttle fleet (remaining) computing power put together... and it's a brick from 1999 !

Obsolete chips in space

Chris Eldridge, harrisburg PA — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 19:27:11 GMT

I think this just goes to show that although the initial Apollo program may have led to technological breakthoughs, space nor the military are pushing the tech envelope anymore and are not contributing to any furthering of all the supposed breakthrough technologies it once did.

This space station was aptly named by Rand Simberg who called it Albatross 1, "Around the neck of NASA the dead bird is hung." This was a total waste of time and resources and has absolutely no bearing on science. Even its wildly branching design is a problem. At least they could have positioned all the modules to create an inner courtyard assembly area that was partially protected from space debris just like they try to pull Hubble half into the cargo bay for servicing. The gangly design also puts undue stress on its many connections (which are aging rapidly) when orbital engines are fired.

There is utterly no need for microgravity experiments on the human body anyway if you simply make a spinning space station that can sim REAL gravity. This can be done with a counterweight which I think was a concept Zubrin thought of for a trip to Mars.

Obsolete chips in space

bob — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 19:27:33 GMT

I agree with the geek above me

Obsolete chips in space

will west — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 19:35:30 GMT

Newer doesn't always mean better. Some of Edisons light bulbs still work.

Obsolete chips in space

Kristy Sanborn — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 19:47:12 GMT

They will bring them home safely. They have too many experts behind them.

Obsolete chips in space

Minuteman Tech Engineer, Vandenberg AFB, CA — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 19:59:44 GMT

"Old" does not necessarily mean "obsolete." EM-hardened, space-worthy, hardware that reliably performs the computations required of it is all that is needed. I would stack military-grade USAF or Navy circuitry up against anything modern made by Intel or AMD for missions like these.

Obsolete chips in space

Jim Macdonald — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 20:27:29 GMT

I can assure you Alan has it right when he says it takes a long time to integrate new technology into spaceflight, more so for manned spaceflight.

The issue of radiation is a bit different from what you portrayed. First, feature sizes have become so small and memory sizes so large that you are pretty much guarenteed to have a bit flipped by a traveling particle once in a while, yes on the ground. That is one reason why ECC is there on the memory chips.

The second aspect of the radiation and electronics question is, are the electronics outside or inside the Space Station? Keeping it non-technical and simple, if the people don't survive the radiation flux inside the Space Station, who cares about the electronics.

Selection of the low earth orbit (where atmospheric drag changes the orbit, requiring adjustments), the shielding of the structure, and a whole list of other things go into the design.

One thing to consider also, is the relatively huge power requirements of today's more, better, faster chips. On Space Station everything has a budget.

Obsolete chips in space

LrdElder, Effingham, Il. — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 20:43:54 GMT

There's a couple of reasons the latest and greatest software/hardware isn't being used in Space. One reason is that these systems are real-time systems. These are not the same systems that the everyday consumer uses at home. If you are typing on your keyboard and for some reason a key stops working or begins to exhibit a slow response then you can check your connection etc etc and if all else fails you can go down to your local computer store and buy another. This isn't such an easy task on a space station or an airplane where, more times then not, peoples' lives are at stake.

Another reason is that a lot of these chips undergo a lengthy "tried and true" trial. Personally, if I had to stake my life on a computer chip then I would rather have a chip that has been used by millions of people for over a decade then have to wonder if the latest and greatest chip that is regulating my supply of fresh air has a division error.

Obsolete chips in space

SRH — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:01:03 GMT

NASA thinks they have problems now with the computers, they should try using Windows VISTA!.............................................

Obsolete chips in space

Frank Glover — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:27:51 GMT

It's also important to note the kind of solid-state hardware used in undersea cables (even optical ones) and in geostationary communications satellites. Both are virtually inaccesable for repair, and the latter also has to deal with possible cosmic ray damage. With decades of intended service life, I have to think those components get long periods of testing before application

Obsolete chips in space

Don — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:31:33 GMT

I bet they're running Windoze - Welcome to blue screen hell!

Obsolete chips in space

steve w — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 23:01:29 GMT

I was took part in the recovery of the space shuttle Columbia. Many of the computer parts recovered looked like apple 2e boards.

Obsolete chips in space

steve rogers. san diego, ca — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 23:52:43 GMT

Geez, the "Techno-Geeks" are coming out of the woodwork. Calm down chip boys, everything will be OK, Captain Kirk or Mr. Chekov will save the day.

Obsolete chips in space

FmrNavyGeek — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 00:43:32 GMT

Being a former Navy ET (Electronics Tech), a current I.T. pro with 18 years experience, and a degree in engineering, here's my take (granted, I don't work with items designed for use in space): if it's just a matter of stray alpha or beta particles an x-rays, then shouldn't the metal case and shielded cables block those? I had to remove my dogtags (made from thin stainless steel) in order to get a chest x-ray because they would block it. One radar system that I used to work on in the Navy (it's no longer in use), the klystron tube had so much power going through it that it had to be shielded and had all sorts of warnings about not removing the shielding while in transmit mode because you would be subject to a lethal dose of x-rays (there were no safety interlocks to cut the power, that was before it was mandatory -- go figure). So, why not just harden the case the computer is in? Now, if it was neutron radiation that was a problem, that would be a different story. A neutron doesn't have a charge of its own, of course, but if it hits another atom, it can create a ion (hence the term "ionizing radiation"). That could create some havoc. So, it could be taken care of by adding something thick and dense for shielding, like lead, but that imparts a weight issue and a health issue (lead is toxic). I'm not so sure that nuclear radiation is so much of a problem as EM radiation. And if somebody thinks vacuum tubes are good, well, I'll tell ya -- they are very delicate and also very susceptable to electrical interference (ever hear "10-4 good buddy!" come blasting through a church's 1970's tube-powered amplifier for the organ?). Plus, they give off a lot of heat, suck a lot of power, and if they break, you have glass everywhere -- not good in a zero-G environment. I say why not create a place on the space station that is a "radiation shelter" and put the electronics in there...with alternate locations for redundancy, of course.

Obsolete chips in space

John P Osborn, Dallas, TX — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 00:58:33 GMT

Let's see...with proper shielding radiation effects on the chips are eliminated...the newest chips actually have less power consumption, are smaller so replacement backups could be integrated in the same space, are faster so the software could have time to be programmed to debug itself...just don't have Microsoft-type engineers program it so the debug process won't let anything else run concurrently and not let you stop it. Government contractors love it when they can unload obsolete crap at premium prices. Old engineers love it when their obsolete skills are still considered cutting edge and marketable. Taxpayers love it when everything is not replaced as soon as the next best thing comes out. Environmentalists love it when space exploration advances at a snail's pace. And I love it when the major superpowers work together in peace.

Obsolete chips in space

J, minnesota — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:15:46 GMT

To inform people here, NASA does use Pentium 4 chips on their laptops (yes 3 year old laptops) having worked with actual NASA flight hardware I know this first hand. The computers they are talking about is the real time OS that actually controls the station. Look at industrial control equipment that is hardly ever an AMD or Intel based chip.

Also NASA is using Windows 2000 pro on the laptops. I do believe that they are looking at replacing that with windows XP.

Obsolete chips in space

Ron minemier — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 04:30:15 GMT

This doesnt address this topic exactly but i thought some readers might be amused. I know from a Russian person working on a space probe (non-manned) that a non hardened commerical processor was used in a data collection system to control a hard drive in about 1990. I was curious about how the hard drive was protected from launch vibrations and g forces. He told me they simply used the then avaliable laptop hard drives from the west:) i dont know how long the probe mission was supposed to last so i didnt think to ask him about the microprocessor. And 1990 stuff by definition is way more "rad hard" per se than todays commerical advanced silicon devices.

Obsolete chips in space

John Werner, Dallas, Texas — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 05:13:33 GMT

While I don't consider myself an expert, I am an Engineer and I have done some Rad Hard designs for Nasa and other companies. Fron what I understand, there are 2 basic area of concerns with radiation; 1. Total dose; 2. Single event effects. CMOS processes do not survive long in either of these categories without special processing tecgniques. Nasa does extensive and expensive testing on every component that goes into space. It cost about 50K to qualify one of the components my company makes for an upcoming satellite. There has been a lot of research in developing rad hard devices involving SOI (Silicon on Insulator) but again the cost is very high. We currently use Rad Hard Mosfets from IR that cost up to $500 a piece compared to their commercial counterparts at $10 each. They are not as robust because part of the hardening process is thinning out the die. It takes 5 of these Radhard Mosfets to do the job of 2 commercial die of similar surface area. The level of difficulty in designing a good space system vs. a home appliance is comparable to hitting a 95MPH fastball vs. a softball tossed underhanded.

Obsolete chips in space

Tim Zim — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 05:29:43 GMT

It is clear Get out of space, get out of Iraq, and get back to taking care of what is important, Our children. What do they care that we found the origin of space turds.. when they did not have the education to learn to read... Get back home and take care of you children MR BUSH you sicko self proclaimed RULER OF THE MODERN WORLD...TAKE CARE OF YOUR CONSITUANTS WE THE PEOPLE... Quit selling us down the tubes...

Obsolete chips in space

EdgeOfDark, Florissant, MO — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 07:46:19 GMT

Computer hardware becomes 'obsolete' only when it can no longer can perform the functions you assign it.

Obsolete chips in space

Joe, Beaufort SC — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:12:05 GMT

Shooter - build a fourier box for the darn new chips - access it using ceramic links to keep radiation out and send them up.

We can replace all six computers with a single chip now and tons of free ram to allow data storage and downland of systems health and have FIVE back up computers.

custom build the wiring harness for the thing and for probably $250,000 you can fix RUSSIAN computers for gosh sakes - I mean who buys Russkie computers?

Obsolete chips in space

Calvin Hobbes, Cupertino, CA — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:48:31 GMT

Sparc running WindRiver, okay. What's the problem keeping them from upgrading it? If the system was "well designed" the interfaces to the gyroscopes and thrusters should be well understood and new updated computers from the current century could be sent as replacements. Possibly with UPS's as well (one would think) and power filters (also one would think) to provide maximum fault tolerance. Hopefully ones that the shuttle would carrying or using. Speaking of which, running booster cables from the space station to the shuttle and power down the shuttle to save power when all that power the space station has to spare, ouch. I know Nasa is underfunded and the other International "space" agencies don't have any, but it sounds like they really could hire one engineer. I still don't understand the space station, but if governments really wanted to do something like this why not start an "open source" science and engineering project? Instead of Linux, it's ISS-nux. Set up a website where scienctist and engineers could contribute openly and the space agencies could adopt science and engineering work for nearly free. I believe there would be sufficient interest on the part of most scientists and engineers around the world to contribute.

Obsolete chips in space

steve r ,watertown , s d — Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:03:51 GMT

you dont always have to have old tech to run stuf .. just bring along a couple top of the line notebooks capable of docking into the system to operate as a patch for all the systems. then leave them there as backups capable of full reboot.

in an emergency having a small notebook with cutting edge tech may be a lifesaver. who cares if its been tested to last 10 years when you are concerned about life support failing in 10 min or 10 seconds ..

just make sure you can plug the newest tech in to save the day until fred flintstone shows up with the replacement chip.

then again why not launch a computer lab that is fully shielded for using those cutting edge devices

Obsolete chips in space

Observer, Alameda, CA — Sun, 17 Jun 2007 21:29:02 GMT

Just for the record: vxWorks is not a Linux like operating systems, vxWorks lacks such an important feature as memory protection, which Linux certainly has.

Obsolete chips in space

Patrick, Phoenix, Arizona — Sun, 17 Jun 2007 21:31:09 GMT

Hello....old or obsolete does NOT mean JUNK....I've got 3 very old computers running almost the latest microsoft software...XP pro, Office 2003, IE7 and all the whistles and bells most of the newest, flashiest "toy's" that the newer computers have..just on dual core processors yet....and I've build all of them out of the local dumpsters...seems like whenever a power supply fails most people toss the whole box of parts...very much akin to junking your car when the battery dies....so let's not get on NASA'a or Eastern Computer Association's back about using old stuff....as long as it works and you can get some quality programming efforts into the programs that do the acutal work..old is still good and reliable..it's just stupid mistakes like pulling the plug with out powering down that causes headaches...

Obsolete chips in space

Martin Whitley, Rogers, AR — Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:40:54 GMT

Kontron makes a whole line of milspec computers that should be considered. Industrial apps, high heat, electromagnetic radiation,these are everywhere. As far as neutrons, well what I understand is that when bombarded kiss it all goodbye.

Obsolete chips in space

steve p, santa fe, nm — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:57:35 GMT

WHEN, not if, we look up and see a big rock fixing to turn our planet into an asteroid belt (like the belt between Mars and Jupiter… ) who will these NASA bashers look to for salvation? What good will the money spent “here on Earth” do then???

Impacts are a fact of planetary life. Planets are formed from impacts. It WILL happen AGAIN… As certain as the force of gravity. With the fate of our planet depending on our ability to divert such a rock, i’d take the “proven but obsolete” over contemporary tech ANY day…

Just because basic component design originated from our shores doesn’t mean the German/Russian application wasn’t screwed up in some fundamental way. In fact, the proven reputation of these components really points to a fundamental flaw somewhere in the subsequent German/Russian application.

As was well proven over half century ago, German audacity can never displace the creative “make it work” ingenuity practiced by a people that grew up from birth with enough individual FREEDOM to think for themselves out of well practiced habit. Something we are too rapidly loosing. Given the general trend of that loss, it might be expected that older stuff has a better chance of having more “make it work” in it.

NASA’s prime directive needs to be re-focused into planet protection, and it could be legitimately argued that the ISS doesn’t fit directly into that, but ANY activity yields experience. Diagnosing this failure will yield valuable lessons that might one day save the planet!

Obsolete chips in space

David Sanchez, Washington, DC — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:44:16 GMT

Is a not just about fancy consumerism chips and open source software down here. Simply put perfect balance of energy and speed efficiencies. Rugged, survivor capacity, redundancy, just imagine, they don’t have the delicate fancy protection of the atmosphere we have-Cosmic ray heaven, high-energy particles, which are constantly hitting on the subatomic scale with each logic gate of central processing unit, which is used to manage simple electron flows. Those CPU’s are shielded for radiations but obviously they are not impermeable. They most have replacements for those old relics.

Obsolete chips in space

John Burkitt, Nashville, Tennessee — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:14:10 GMT

I know this may strike you as odd, but in the days before computers, people did amazing things with gears, pinions and camshafts. Aiming the solar panels could be as simple as an array of photoelectric chips on the outside of a sphere...the one most directly pointed at the sun has the strongest current. True it may take more ingenuity to do this, but I recall how the Russians laughed at us for spending 10 million on an ink pen that could write in zero-G...while THEY USED PENCILS.

Obsolete chips in space

Michael Gower — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:04:26 GMT

John Burkitt: The pencil vs pen myth is false. It never happened. Both American and Soviet spaceflights used pencils on early flights. Mercury and Gemini used them exclusively, as did all Soviet/Russian flights up until 1968.

The "Fisher space pen" was created by Fisher at its OWN expense (ONE MILLION, not ten) and sold the product to NASA following NASA's requirements for Apollo. Fisher made back its money mostly by selling the "space pen" commercially.

Pencil points break off, and could be a hazard on missions where the astronauts have their faceplates open, or even remove their pressure suits entirely. Plus, it's conductive and a broken piece could cause a short in the instrument panel.

Obsolete chips in space

Paul Miller — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:51:34 GMT

Using hardware / software combinations that are several generations old doesn't seem to be anything unusual. The shuttle is loaded with '70's era technology.

What I would like to know is how is NASA approaching this issue with Project Constelation hardware and control systems. Will the Orion spacecraft computers be easily upgraded? And how will redundancy and comminalities be maximixed for the Mars missions, where replacements from earth will not be an option?

Obsolete chips in space

Red Pill Junkie — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:23:32 GMT

Shielding the chips with a thicker case means MORE WEIGHT, remember that the cost to send one pound of stuff to the ISS is US$10,000... then again, old chips are BULKIER and take out MORE SPACE. It is definitely a conundrum, but it is also an interesting opening for a new market that will grow to be worth billions in the years to come: Develop computer hardware and software for the new line of commercial space vehicles that can do the job efficiently, consume as little energy as possible, can withstand the stress of the vaccuum radiation, and be easily upgraded.

NASA should definitely fund some contest like the Millenium projects so outside companies can help it come up with the solution for this. How about funding research into diamond-based chips? Intel is not interested because they already have too much cash at stake developing silicon. Only an outside underdog could come up with a new solution that would benefit not only the average consumer but also the high-end needs of space exploration.

Obsolete chips in space

ZUG — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 23:53:14 GMT

I typed this message on my Commodore 128

Obsolete chips in space

Mike M, Anaheim, CA — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 06:21:34 GMT

Most everyone above (the author included) has focused on the overly-sensationalized fact that the processors are older (yet tried and true) technology. When they were flown, the chips were about 5 years old ... not old by the standards of flight readiness testing and certification.

I find it hard to believe that no one has commented on the fact that the computers in question have been restored to operation by bypassing the power switch that supplies them with power. This begs the question: Why does this discussion appear to imply that the processors are the cause of the current "computer problems on the international space station" ...?

We should applaud the fact that the computers are back up and running. That is the true testament to their design. Changing hardware or software wouldn't have fixed the problem.

How many people do you know who would replace or upgrade their computer because the circuit breaker in their home was faulty or a fuse was blown ...?

Obsolete chips in space

Irvin A. Haynes,Charleston,SC — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:10:46 GMT

Our governments priorities are messed up. Space,military, war on terror all come before we the people,they can not find the time to fix Social Security, which is what a lot of people have as a retirement to live on the rest of their lives, and they could fix it really easily if our government would pay back the i o u's it owes to s/s not all at once they could not afford that but at least so much each year until it is done and also pass a law that no one can use s/s money for anything but s/s ....

Obsolete chips in space

vaughn nebeker idaho fall's idaho — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 18:17:30 GMT

yes i worked on the self powering chip in the 1970's but entered the millitary in 1971. the 1970 chip got 7 volt's 3.5 amp's. the new stuff at 46 volt's 23.5 amp's. it the technology that powered telstar. but the Army figured i would not survive the vallie of death, vet-nam, but I did.