How politeness evolved

Dave, Charlotte, NC — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:49:55 GMT

You obviously don't drive.

How politeness evolved

Barbara Perez, Beaverton, Oregon — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:56:29 GMT

As a preschool teacher who spends a lot of time teaching very young humans to take turns, share, etc, I'm HIGHLY skeptical on this one.

How politeness evolved

Charles O'Neal, Denver, CO — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:37:42 GMT

I remember we discussed this in my old "cognitive systems & intelligent agents" course in college (cross listed as both computer science and psychology - it was quite fascinating).

We thought that teamwork was a learned behavior because it could help us accomplish personal goals, but we assumed language was required for this to occur. I'm interested in whether the agents in the "genetic simulations" you discuss were somehow able to signal one another to initiate the turn taking behavior.

How politeness evolved

bob Buckingham; Apple Valley, California — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:25:02 GMT

I was taught to wait for my turn; I taught it to my kids and I'm still teaching it. I know adults that need to learn it. I belive that manners were a social invention which allowed societies to 'evolve'. Note that dictators, terrorists and the like don't take turns; neither do rapist, child molestors, or common thieves and people simple jump lines all of the time. A simulation is fine if the basic facts are properly vetted; but I don't think these guys did proper vetting.

How politeness evolved

JD — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:54:25 GMT

I thought even across different human populations handle queuing in different ways. Not sure if anectotal or stereotypical but I remember recently humorous powerpoint presentation that circulated on the internet about behavior by italians compared to behavior by other Europeans. One of the slides compared non-Italians as forming a straight line while Italians at a ticket office swarming around, in fact forming multiple lines. I am part Italian so I don't mean it as an offense but aren't there differences between societies on queuing? The strict finding on taking turns I believe is true but the example of queuing and how stricktly people follow that, may be too much.

How politeness evolved

Tony,Albany, NY — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 03:30:42 GMT

This researcher has obviously never been to China or India.

How politeness evolved

Cathy Delaney, Hutto, Texas — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 04:08:41 GMT

Upon reflection - I see turn taking as a learned behavior to achieve a desired end result not simply a hard-wired genetic coding. Toddlers do not naturally take turns - they must be taught to do so - a learned behavior - which is obvious in the various results one gets by examining this question across cultures - even subcultures.
What I do see as the common genetic factor is simply -Desire.

How politeness evolved

Solomon Lobbes, USA — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 04:10:55 GMT

Doesn't sound like sound science. Highly speculative at best. When they figure out a way to explain the emergent properties of the mind, and why it seems to be more than the sum of its parts, I think they'll have a much better grip on why we behave the way we do. Explain to me how we get from a blast of energy and particles to a reflective, sentient mind, and explaining politeness will become a piece of cake.

How politeness evolved

LLH — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 04:25:10 GMT

It makes sense.
Wild animals exhibit less selfish behavior than domestic animals.
In the antartic, where it is hardest to survive,
you see unselfish behavior in penguins.
Sometimes cooperation is necessary

How politeness evolved

Jessica; Oxford, England — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 04:26:44 GMT

Leave it to the Brits to write a journal article on queueing.

How politeness evolved

EM, Manassas, VA — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 04:41:52 GMT

I would venture to say that everything that happens in nature happens in turn; it all depends on what your definition of turn is, and what game you're playing. Even in the "take everything" game; if a dangerous driver is playing the "I'll cut everyone off every chance I get" his turn pops up when the opportunity arrives to exploit the situation (in his mind, he always wins). It makes sense that nature would take things in turn, and encourage mutually sustainable growth. The diversity of behavior in people seems to indicate that we're all playing our own games and making up the rules as we go.

How politeness evolved

Allen Willey, Parker CO — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 05:22:50 GMT

It's not survival of the fittest, it's survival of that which survives. Temporary conditions may favor certain phenotypes, but nothing stays the same. Our ability to adapt to changing conditions is why our species is so widespread.

How politeness evolved

whatupboy, new orleans — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 05:33:38 GMT

people are forced to take turns. The reason for the evolution of democratic government is to control the idiots who would jeopardize the whole for their jumping ahead, cheating, etc. The comment about driving is perfect, same with dictators, etc. This study is flawed. We were taught and we teach others. We are logical and can see when taking turns is more advantageous than going it alone.

How politeness evolved

PS,Pune,India — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 05:37:04 GMT

I agree with JD. I am Indian and you have to see the natural aptitude in India to break lines.Lines have to be enforced continously there otherwise it doesn't work. So,is it automatic survival instinct or automatic acquistive instinct in a crowded place, even though line forming, no overtaking to fill in the gaps in a traffic jam which ultimately ends up all lanes being blocked up on both sides etc. would speed things up? These are learned social behaviours not hardwired evolutionary behaviour. Each specie of animal may be hardwired for a particular singular pattern of behaviour, to extrapolate it to all species is just not possible!For e.g. certain birds will use stones to break ostrich eggs , does this mean that all species are hardwired to learn to use tools to achieve desirable tasks.
To queue up in England and not to queue up in other loactions , which is the evolutionaary behaviour?
Re: The Prisoner's Dilemma, the dilemma is easier as the outcomes of alternate actions are known. Then what about behaviour in remote locations, where if one person is in danger , the other/s in the group tend to help as the outcomes are not certain?

How politeness evolved

Jay Poppenhusen, Los Angeles, CA — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 06:00:48 GMT

I have field experimented with toll road motorists in California and studied cashier service queue requests after they have waited in line or not waited in line. A long toll road service queue does not increase or decrease the number of polite request strategies levied on the toll attendant. Motorists in a queue feel social influence time constraints not politeness guidelines. They express anger or politeness quickly when they reach the cashier.

How politeness evolved

Alex Jorge, Bellevue, WA — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 06:58:00 GMT

You obviously haven't ever travelled to China. There, it's survival of the fittest and the early bird gets the worm. Queing mainly occurs in the Westernized world.

How politeness evolved

nate — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:19:08 GMT

evolution is false so this doesn't prove anything... ha - sorry there was a comment void that needed to be filled.

this is pretty interesting to think about. regarding dave from NC's comment about driving there is little evolutionary benefit to being polite while driving - especially in the short term. the basic need of survival is not satisfied by traveling in packs on the freeway.

How politeness evolved

Loyd McDaniel, Waegwan S. Korea — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:19:31 GMT

I am an American from Texas living in S. Korea. You aparently do not know that Koreans do not QUE, the attitude in Korea is me first. In line at the airport you will see a korean move past everyone and go directly to the checkin counter. At an uncontrolled intersection he/she will cut you off when you were obviously already in the intersection. Maybe you could do a study and find out why this is. Is it the overpopulated area? I don't think so. When I ravel to Japan they are equally populated and the Japanese stand in line and allways yield if you approach an uncontrolled intersection first. I travel all over Asia and I find Koreans the worst at queing or orderly lineing up, a line to a group of Koreans is 10 or twelve abreast. Looks like a mob not a que.

How politeness evolved

carl danner, bakersfield CA — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 07:23:38 GMT

I suspect that turn takers out survive those who do not allow others to go first. A good example is driving on the highway. I take my turn. That is I do not normally pass others. I watch as the more aggressive drivers frequently change lanes as they move out of turn to the front of the line. Frequent lane changing is more risky than waiting your turn. I suspect that the attitude of frequent lane changers also translates into more risky moves in other driving situations. Though the risks are not great eventually their luck can run out and cause a collision that impairs their ability to reproduce their aggressive traits.

How politeness evolved

Mick, Round Rock, Texas — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 08:14:20 GMT

We may all take turns around the world, but my experience on recent trips to China suggest that a turn there means that whoever pushes or sneaks their way to the front of the line goes first.

How politeness evolved

KF, Changzhou, Jiangsu — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 08:14:27 GMT

As an American in China for the past two years, I have difficulty accrediting this theory at all outside of Western society. Westerners take for granted that we "take turns" buying tickets or at a traffic intersection - in China, red lights and green lights are a vague suggestion outside the very center of the city during daylight. Even in America, people run red lights just as they change because they don't want to wait for the next turn. Taking turns is an evolutionary advantage if taking turns results in improvement of your individual life or that of your offspring. Letting others get on the bus first does nothing to secure you a seat, or that you will even get on this over-crowded bus at all! I believe this issue is much more complicated than what is presented here and disregards cultural differences as well as what we are taught beginning at a young age.

How politeness evolved

raymond Belanger / lasvegas ,Nevada — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:10:46 GMT

I stand in line because it's faster, plus I can tell by how the line is moving how long it will take to reach the front of the line, I do't like t stand in line when it reaches around a corner because then I can't see the front of the line.

How politeness evolved

Derek Capo — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:39:29 GMT

What I don't understand is how turn-taking benefits the individual at all. Does it simply mean less competition? But even then, if there is one fish left and I'm second in line, you can bet I'm cutting so I can eat. It just doesn't make sense if they're trying to attribute this to the "invisible hand" of natural selection. In the example I make, the person who cuts in line to get the last fish would eat and not starve to death--passing his/her genes on to their offspring. Personally, I'm hungry, and I'm getting that last fish.

How politeness evolved

Brenda H — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:28:34 GMT

As a high school Special Education teacher and a 23 year veteran Social Worker, I've seen the survival of the fittest more often than not. I've also seen that alturism, itself, is selective and dependent on other factors such as emotional interference, the perception of excess/scarce resources, and a myriad of circumstances. The argument needs to be narrowed.

How politeness evolved

L.L., Crozet, Va. — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:32:15 GMT

Right on JD. Try lift lines at a lot of European ski resorts. Food riots are often better behaved. Queing seems to be influenced more by social norm than hardwiring.

How politeness evolved

sue — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:44:41 GMT

I believe in the taking turns bit, but it is something that is taught at home and school. I don't think it is instinctual, just something we learned at an early age.
As for standing in line, I will NOT wait for anything. This has nothing to do with being a bully, and everything to do with not liking crowds.

How politeness evolved

D Smith Atlanta GA — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:47:29 GMT

I suspect that queuing evolved in ancient societies where everyone carried a knife or sword....

Would like to see them run the simulations again with the gene pool for Atlanta traffic.

How politeness evolved

Elgog Partynipple, Allentown PA — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:04:06 GMT

As a parent of 3 teen age girls, I have seen queing negotiated by my children for things like who gets in the front seat of the car. The kids take turns in the front seat and remember themselves who was in front last. They have complicated rules and know all the loop holes for this behavior as well. Typically, who ever is in front manages the car stereo. If they leave the stereo off, someone else can call control of the stereo via a remote control. There is no arguing and no fighting. Also, this behavior appeared at a young age, about 6 years old. Everyone is happy with it and I never have to break up a fight or manage who is in front. If they forget who was last in front they negotiate a solution. This is more conflict resolution than just being polite.

How politeness evolved

Jerry D. Diltz, Charleston, West Virginia — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:04:51 GMT

Survival of thbe fittest can be aggressive or passive (Survival in priso, ex.) I being an older person was taught manners and consideration. Most young people today seem to have no clue. Having said that, I believe genentically we take turns, etc. due to our instinct of survival. Who wants to be beaten or embarrassed for cutting in line? Those who do surely have other mental issues that over ride their instinct of survival.

How politeness evolved

John Kirouac, Toronto Ca — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:37:23 GMT

"Turn Taking" on a BINARY level (limited to TWO participants) no matter how large the "group" can be easily simulated in the pristine environment of a computer program. No "genetic mutation" algorythms should required if the "bots" are sufficiently diverse and "whet", nor is there any need for complex "communication". All that's needed is a syncronization and benificial alignment of "reward/regeneration" parameters that allow PAIRS of bots to compete more effectively. It may LOOK like altruistic behavior, and indeed may even be (one of) the reason PAIR (male/female) biology is prevelant. But Q'ing behaviour??? I don't think so... Thats a bit of a stretch.

How politeness evolved

Sherrie — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:37:50 GMT

I believe this is no more than a structured, orderly society prospers. Whether it is microorganisms, ants, chimps or humans. I can see how this can be attributed to evolution, because if you're not in disarray then you can cooperate to become stronger and the stronger survive. However a lot of this is learned. We learn to live with laws, rules, manners and each other.

How politeness evolved

Jen, Albany, NY — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:41:32 GMT

I think turn-taking might not be something that's hardwired for us to do, but something we notice can benefit us. In my opinion, not everything that's evolutionary about people is a hardwired thing, sometimes it's just a behavior exhibited that's helpful to survival.

Usually, if you're smart you do understand that taking turns can get things done more efficiently and quickly. Taking politeness a bit further, sometimes it's better to let someone else try something first. They sometimes show you where not to mess it up.

I'd imagine we teach it to the next generations usually because we want them to know the benefits of the things we've learned quicker than we picked them up. We just don't want to sit around and wait for them to pick up on it because we're impatient, so we teach it and reinforce it.

How politeness evolved

Joshua Mathews — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:44:27 GMT

I think the title puts one in the wrong state of mind, or that it doesn't match. In many societies, civilized or not, I bet it's more often done b/c it's just too much hassle (or risk) for one to go against the crowd - rather than out of politeness or concern for someone else's situation.

How politeness evolved

Mark Wakely — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:24:29 GMT

It isn't all altruistic, of course. There are still selfish reasons for cooperative behavior- mainly, to build goodwill for later favors or payback. It's not unlike the two clichés "one hand washes the other" or "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours." It might be hardwired into our DNA to some extent, but in a Machiavellian sort of way, deferring to someone else is also a calculated strategy to ensure future cooperation by maintaining a harmonious relationship. The credit for that probably belongs more to our innate intelligence and ability to plan ahead than to our ancient genes.

How politeness evolved

TKH, Lakeland, FL — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:34:51 GMT

All the comments come from people that are witnessing a species in decline. One could only hope we will one day wake up and realize how significant we could be.

How politeness evolved

Fred Mello Baker City, Or. — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:38:28 GMT

all of that could be said in a couple of sentences. fear. If you do not take your turn,you maybe crippled for life. with birds and animals that is a fact of life. [ but then I do not get the big bucks for making studies that keep useless college grads employed ]

How politeness evolved

FYTHELER — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:53:38 GMT

Sociological assumptions stamped as scientific and limited to one culture is still just assumptions if NOT addressed by multiple societies. (There, that sounds cool from a home computer!)

How politeness evolved

FYTHELER, Austin TX — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:56:22 GMT

Ya think?

How politeness evolved

Baffled - DC — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:57:18 GMT

I'm with JD on this one. As an Asian American, I've observed almost a universal phenomena in Asian cultures of 'non-linear/maximum' queuing in various circumstances, such as:
- waiting for public transportation
- placing order at takeout joints
- waiting for bank/postal service

In fact, I find the author's hypothesis amusing but at the same time am comforted to see another well known hypothesis (well a proven fact by now...) confirmed - garbage in, garbage out; it astounds me how many of the so called 'learned' academics commit intellectual suicide by sticking with irrational apriori assumptions until the bitter end - that of illogical conclusions of preposterous proportions.

Any parent with toddlers know (empirically I might add) that 'taking turns and sharing nice' are never an ingrained trait of the human species. Perhaps these brilliant fellows either have not had the pleasure of raising children or been so long ago that the traumatic memories have been erased from their minds.... no doubt another evolutionary 'gains' ;-)

How politeness evolved

Dianne, Houston, Texas — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:01:22 GMT

The habit of taking turns could conceivably evolve because of the fact that it is beneficial to the society/species as a whole. Cooperative behavior among cave dwelling humans, for example, would lead to more folks available for hunting, child rearing, etc. Penguins taking turns caring for eggs/chicks evolved due to locations of food sources versus nursery areas - again, cooperation and taking turns benefits the group as well as the parents in the long run. This would be a beneficial trait in all organisms.

How politeness evolved

Gilbert Nelson — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:24:17 GMT

JD may be on to a partial explaination of why people take turns.Some societies (i.e Italian) are known for their warm,sharing and gregarious public behaviors while some Northern European ethnic groups are more reserved.I suspect that the more homogenous a society is, the greater the tendencies for it's members to conform to turn taking and other co-operative behaviors. Japanese society is noted for it's orderly conformism and socially conservative interaction.

How politeness evolved

Pat Ervasti Bertha, MN — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:59:41 GMT

I see the politeness factor demishinng in many areas. People are simply too involved with the "me" in their lives to even notice or think about being polite (which involved thinking os someone other then themselves). I grew up having to be polite to others or my parents and older siblings would not take me any place.
Often people no longer acknowledge gifts, even with a simple e-mail. I find I tend to be less generous with those types of people.

How politeness evolved

Aegliss Shelbyville TN — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:17:37 GMT

People don't take turns. That photo was shopped. I can tell because I've seen a few shops in my day. The pixels are also a dead giveaway.

How politeness evolved

Nikki, Fredericksburg, VA — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:22:07 GMT

As a mother of two; I have to say that these people have probably been sharing some illegal substances to come to such a wacked out conclusion.

How politeness evolved

Chuck Sweet — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:24:56 GMT

I think it is obvious that turn taking and other forms of manners are indeed a survival trait: if you do not share food, shelter or other things needful for survival, then your species will die out from the lack of cooperation. This being said, however, there appear to be many different mechanisms to determine who has the right to be first in line and successive positions after that. Often it is based on age or strength of the individual compared to the group, as with wolves, or like stags competing for breeding rights with each other. Even species that are mostly solitary will respect other's boundaries, which is still a form of sharing the terrain and available food supply.
Humans exhibit all of these traits as well, but also have learned responses as well as instinctive ones: males provide for their families by leaving the home to work (or hunt, mothers will forgo food to provide it to their children and males and females both compete for best breeding partners. At the same time, some will exhibit antisocial behavior based on selfishness: the cutting in lines, the example of dictators holding on to power and (as in the US here) politicians accepting bribes (campaign contributions) and afterwards making laws/regulations that affect their contributors beneficially as opposed to and against providing for the common good for the general public that elected them.
Obviously, communication tosses a wrench into the instinctive behavior once an animal gets up to our level of sophistication, but actually enhances it as well...But then we have had millions upon millins of years and generations in which to evolve to this point, and clearly, we are not done evolving yet!!

How politeness evolved

Chuck C Tucson, AZ — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:11:58 GMT

Hey, The Alpha gets first choice. Afterwards, every individual gets a chance according to pecking order. If nothing's left for the last, too bad. Community needs force sharing. i.e. I need you to help hunt mammoth, so you are going to get a share, no matter your position.

How politeness evolved

KG, Minneaopils, MN — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:26:37 GMT

Hard wired? Hard-ly. This is a learned social behavior. Children learn "1st come 1st serve" thru either adult supervision or thru peer pressure and without adult supervision it usually ends up being "strongest 1st". Survival of the fittest is what's hard wired into us & only social pressures have instilled a sence of fair play in our society.

How politeness evolved

C, Orlando, FL — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:30:18 GMT

It seems obvious that politeness in human beings needs to be taught. One only needs to look at the behavior of children who have been taught well vs. those whose parents have not spent time instructing them. This isn't similar to penguins who trade turns at warming eggs. After all, the birds are warming their own egg (taking care of their own offspring), which is not the same thing as being courteous to strangers. Chimps grooming each other are familiar with each other and have some sort of friendly relationship with each other -- again, different from kindness to strangers.

How politeness evolved

Gary Lewis london,ky — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:34:08 GMT

I think this is a learned behavior,that people only use when theres something benefical in it for them.

How politeness evolved

Dave Milliken, Belfast, Northern Ireland — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:54:45 GMT

I guess the one thing none of the commenter’s have acknowledged is 'learned behaviour'. In Italy, if you want to progress in traffic, you really have to fight for position, growing up in this environment would alter your perception on what is and isn’t acceptable. Young children can’t be expected to be a good counter-example either. They get hungry, but they don’t fashion weapons and go hunting. There are way too many variables to study this sort of topic using humans, as there are many factors that mould how we think and behave.

It is also possible that reason we detest dictators, terrorists, rapists, child molesters and thieves so much is because they break that fragile protocol that the rest of us adhere to unwittingly. In fact, in many social groups, the 'order' by which events happen often dictates social status (i.e. who eats first etc.).

Before any positive analysis can be made, a good understanding of how exactly these games were played and how outcomes (positive or negative) were achieved.

It should also be mentioned that the first paper was release in 2004 and has withstood considerable professional scrutiny for the past five or so years. Also, this is a simple explanation for a recognised pattern – not the rewriting of the laws of physics. Any choaticians out there will appreciate the pitfalls involved in speculation.

Those of you who read the release and not just the article will notice that there is an email address for you to direct your questions and opinions to.

How politeness evolved

John Doe — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:00:30 GMT

Wow! What an incredible waste of time, money and resources. Anybody who has ever had or worked with children before, knows how ridiculous this is.

It almost makes me want to become a creationist. Almost.

How politeness evolved

Colleen, West Islip, NY — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:05:14 GMT

Seems intriguing, along the lines of the evolutionary biologists that have posited that other altruistic behavior seen across species (such as food sharing) is also hard-wired into DNA, and serves to help the species that practice it to survive. The argument there goes something like (I hope I get this right) - only the strongest of the species can afford to share their food, and by doing so, they display their strength to the others in the group, flock, etc. That makes them a more attractive mate, and that, in turn, makes them more prolific. And voila! Hard-wired altruism. Seems entirely plausible to me that turn-taking likewise offers a benefit - less energy expended in constant competition means energy saved for the "good stuff" like reproduction... Imagine if every time you wanted to see a movie, you had to shove your way into the theater. Then extrapolate that out to every other little courtesy and I would bet, without hard-wired turn-taking that pre-dates language evolution and other higher reasoning, that we wouldn't yet be out of the trees as a species.

How politeness evolved

Jonathan Rogers, Maysville, Kentucky — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:06:08 GMT

This has got to be the most ridiculous conclusion I've ever heard of. I have to agree with Barbara Perez of Beaverton, Oregon. And in addition to what Barbara and I know about teaching children, those British researchers have obviously NOT lived in developing countries where people have no idea about standing in lines. I lived in mainland China for almost eight years and they know very little about lines, waiting, consideration, and the like. To take this conclusion one step farther, since waiting in lines is an evolutionary development and is found in cultures that have been strongly influenced by white people (and Christianity), does that mean that white people are the most evolutionary advanced? I can't wait for the replies to this idea, but that where this kind of thinking leads us, doesn't it?

How politeness evolved

Jeff Baggett, Huntsville, AL — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:06:17 GMT

Look at a pride of lions or a pack of dogs feeding and you'll observe the origins of turn taking.

How politeness evolved

Eric, Salinas, CA — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:43:37 GMT

Interesting article Alan! I guess this explains republicans. Since they never evolved they lack the politeness behavioral evolution us Democrats have. A pity that they didn't learn their manners in church either, but nowadays these evangelical frauds are more interested in making money than teaching morals.

How politeness evolved

Ash — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:15:37 GMT

Many researchers, wittingly or not, stroke their findings to produce their own pet beliefs. This has to be one such. Wartime shopping will teach you to queue up - or else. And it's the "or else" that motivates most to be polite in any scenario. Contrary to what many modern-day mummies and daddies firmly believe, their children are not little angels misguided by the "wrong type of friends." They choose those friends because they like their behavior. A parent's job is to protect and train the child to become part of - and be constructive in - the society .....or else.

How politeness evolved

Dennis, Vancouver — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:40:54 GMT

Look what happens to lemmings when they push and shove to get to front of the line.

How politeness evolved

Christopher Dahl — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:57:04 GMT

No. If queuing is, in ANY sense whatsoever, natural, why can't they actually let me out of the bus before they swarm into the bus.

I think you need actual dueling before courtesy becomes anything but quaint, "LOSER!" behavior.

How politeness evolved

jr, Ocean Shores, WA — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:12:02 GMT

I do think taking turns and other cooperative behaviors could be an unrecognized part of “survival of the fittest.” We are talking here about survival of the fittest species not of the individual. If we do not survive as a species, there will be no individual. These beneficent behaviors are exhibited among the members of many groups from families to nations. Since many animal species exhibit some of these same cooperative behaviors, it cannot be attributed to logic, intellect, or training. I believe cooperation is a “hard-wired” behavior necessary for survival.
As for those various groups or individuals who are not cooperative, the explanation for non-survival behaviors may be due to a number of things. Some people exhibit anti-social behaviors because of genetic mutation or damage. With others, it may be training from their particular society or family. Still others may, as individuals, just choose to behave in uncooperative ways. These are a matter of human choice. However, animals do not choose a particular behavior; they behave as they are “wired.” Animals, also, are not seen to be selfish. Hmm…

How politeness evolved

Don, Boise Idaho USA — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:21:34 GMT

The researchers make a lot of assumptions in order to arrive at this conclusion -- all research starts with assumptions. However, in this particular case, the researcher assume the `rational actor' -- a hypothetical individuals who always calculates potential advantage for any action. This does _not_ adequately describe humans. It does, however, make the math and the programming a lot easier -- and that's the reason why.

That said, If over successive trials, people learn that sharing and taking turns helps matters somehow, they may develop a greater willingness to start there -- a _learned_ behaviour. Parents and teachers try to teach this to kids and usually succeed, and where they don't kids learn through experience that sharing is usually beneficial at some point.

The short answer is that this doesn't have to be genetic for humans as it is learned behavior and the learning happens every generation. But, evolutionary psychology and evolutionary biology are fields that _assume_ that evolution _effects_ behaviour.

So there you go.

How politeness evolved

CVA, Bainbridge Island WA — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 06:06:00 GMT

I think what is in the DNA is awareness of self in proximity to others like self. This gives rise to an instinct for spacial separation that mediates the actions of an individual in a crowd. What is learned behavior is the order and acceptable size of the separation. In European cultures where linear and visual thinking as well a a sense of equality dominates and where wide separation is comfortable this results in an orderly pattern. Ever notice at theatres and airports that the if there are twenty chairs in a row and 10 unrelated people that the normal pattern would an empty chair between each person. Other cultures (and New York taxi drivers) do not operate linearly and are do not require as wide a berth to be comfortable so the space is controlled by voice, hands and perceived status. This appears chaotic to the western eye but it really is not.

How politeness evolved

Jonathan Rogers, Maysville, Kentucky — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:16:26 GMT

What a waist of time to post a comment here on Cosmic Joke...I mean...Log. Why don't you let your readers sensor the comments? And if your servers can't handle the volumn, then maybe you need to get more storage. It's a waste of time to sit down and write a meaningful comment only to find that you didn't post it. Be considerate of the time that people take to post.

How politeness evolved

Matt, Cary NC — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:22:08 GMT

Its true we do teach children to share and take turns, but somewhere along the way someone had to figure out by themselves that sharing and taking turns was a good idea that helped everyone out. They then taught others and the cycle began. The thing we'll never be able to figure out (for obvious ethical reasons) is if left to their own devices would a group of wild human beings who had no adults to teach them begin showing turn taking behavior.

How politeness evolved

Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:20:54 GMT

Jonathan Rogers, Maysville, Kentucky (7/16, 0916)
I see your post of 7/15, 1406 and I see what you mean. He let that one through and then didn't post the one that was meaningful. That sucks, man. Sometimes Alan is just like that. On the other hand, some people have an overdeveloped sense of importance and entitlement and just can't wait patiently while their post is in queue.

How politeness evolved

Thayer, Seattle, WA — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 22:54:24 GMT

Viewing this phenomenon as "hard wiring" via DNA can obscure what's actually going on here. Yes, DNA is the blue prints our cells use to generate proteins and such. However, this alone can never fully explain behavior such as "politeness" or taking turns.

So what else is there to explain the similarities between multiple species and their behavior? Studying the neurology of multiple species shows that we do in fact share very similar brain structures with a variety of animals. Our brain stem is actually an artifact of our animal pasts while the larger cortex makes up more of our specifically human cognitive aspects. It could be that these behaviors are "hard wired" into the animal portions of our brains and then reinforced by social learning and encoding into the "human" portions of our brains.

It is easy to not take seriously evolutionary explanations of behavior leading to scepticism due to confusion of how exactly DNA can lead to behavior. The truth is DNA does not equal behavior. There is a whole host of processes from DNA > protein production > cellular growth and specialties > organ function > brain functions and specialized neural networks > behavior. I will give this particular article the benefit of the doubt and grant that it would take way too long to describe step-by-step how DNA can lead to and explain behavior, but it's certainly not a direct cause and effect relationship.

How politeness evolved

Greg Wertime, Pasadena California — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:00:08 GMT

A tangential point to an offhand remark --

..."Men are from earth, women are from earth, deal with it" ...

I always hear people say this when they disagree with John Grey. At face value it's hard to argue -- of course we're from earth. In context, the statement pisses on John Grey's use of the Mars/Venus metaphor to describe gender differences. So instead of putting one's contempt for Grey's analysis behind stating the obvious, how about just have the guts to put it front and center and say "men and women are not different in any way and John Grey is full of crap".