Music for cavemen

Eric, Salinas, CA — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:59:49 GMT

Interesting artcile Alan! We live in interesting times as we find out more and more about our evolutionary past and how humans evolved to become what we are today. So interesting that our very early ancestors got into music to help maintain their community bonds. It would have been simple music but it would have seemed magical to the listeners who marveled at the sound coming out of a bone without understanding how the sound was actually made.

Music for cavemen

Ham White, Colorado — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:22:23 GMT

It would have been nice for them to mention that, while it is not a handmade musical instrument, it has been widely held for decades that the first musical instrument was the bow and arrow, with the rough arrow being rubbed against the bowstring while pinching the string at different lengths to make different tones.

Music for cavemen

Fred Mallach, Victoria, BC — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:27:19 GMT

Sex, drugs and rock and roll. It seems that our forbears weren't all that different from us.

Music for cavemen

steve smyth — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:14:14 GMT

I bet they could hear the Cosmic Hum in those days...with zero Anthropogenic Static* to filter the vibes...forget mimicking birds...imagine whistling out the sounds of The Music of the Spheres from your firelit cave as the full moon rises across your opening to the world...YIPES!
* beware the Anthropogenic Static Crisis...coming soon to a planet near you...

Music for cavemen

Christopher, San Francisco, CA — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:16:25 GMT

How could those holes be made by a scavenger? The one furthest left seems to be so obviously shaped to accept a fingerpad. Really, scientists seem to have such a problem accepting facts when it's someone else changing the discovered universe.

[ALAN ADDS: Christopher, the scavenger idea relates to the Slovenian cave-bear flute, which I didn't include a picture of. But the fact that you're writing about it now makes me think that I should include a picture. I'll go ahead and do that.]

Music for cavemen

mike k — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:56:36 GMT

35,000 years ago, we had prehistoric porn. Moving on 30,000 years or so, we find some of the earliest Babylonian writings to be beer recipes.

Porn and beer. Human nature hasn't changed at bit.

Music for cavemen

Warren Gohl, Tacoma, Washington — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:13:11 GMT

"Sticks and Stones" played by our paleolithic relatives may have constituted the first orchestra,long before the first wind and drum instruments.Just a thought arising from contemplating social activites and spirit worship related to millenia of knapping and tool fashioning. They were creating more than mere tools and weapons.

Music for cavemen

Don Bradley Greeley, CO — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:17:42 GMT

It is always interesting to me when someone finds something they say is 35000 or 50000 years old. I would have a tendacy to believe them, but there is only one problem. This world is only 6000 to 7000 years old. That means that the item would have had to be placed here at least 28000 years before this world existed. I find that to be a big problem. Maybe it is just me. I guess someone is a little bit off on the dates. Just an observation.

Music for cavemen

David Urrows, Hong Kong — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:18:26 GMT

I agree with Christopher from SFO, that the Slovenian fragment cannot be the work of a 'predator': the holes are too symmetrically placed both horizontally (as regards the arc of the lower part of the bone in the pic) and vertically along the highest ridge of the bone. And they have been cut to be equal in diameter more or less; there is clearly and aesthetic mind at work here. Anyway, there are still primitive flutes with only two holes, it's a mistake to think a 35,000 year old flute should look like a flute: you can get a variety of pitches from a two-hole flute, and homo sapiens of this date would have had no concept of modern scales or musical materials. If it's true that music as a human activity began with the imitation of animal sounds, this little flute would have worked admirably to that end.

Music for cavemen

Carl, Orange, CA — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:18:33 GMT

Perhaps it could also have been used as a hunting lure for mimicking bird calls.

Music for cavemen

Linda Medeiros — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:21:17 GMT

Read "Art and the Creative Unconscious" by Neuman, a disciple of Carl Jung. In it he describes how the earliest music was sacred, a call to the divine and accompanied sacred rites. Interesting.

Music for cavemen

Tammany California — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:33:59 GMT

This is really cool. Maybe now this shows that geico was right ! so mart even a caveman can do it.

Music for cavemen

Sara, Chicago — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:39:58 GMT

The instrument played sounds more like a piccolo than a flute, but I did enjoy listen to it.

Music for cavemen

Rick Davies, Emporia, KS — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:55:04 GMT

Don, Can you grasp the fact that the known universe is almost 14 Billion years old and our solar sytem is about 4 Billion years old, 50,000 years is a drop in the bucket. I dont know where you recieved your degree in Earth science but I think you may want do more research, get back to me when you have gravity figured out.......

Music for cavemen

James Fieser, Augusta, KS — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:10:49 GMT

First off; Thank you. I have always contended that the ability to make and appreciate music is part of what makes us 'human'. This discovery' would indeed seem to support my belief.
Second; Bird calls, whether real or simulated by an instrument or a human mouth - ARE music. Surely, fascination with and imitation of bird calls implies an appreciation of the emotions that music can engender. What species other than humans display this characteristic?
And finally: I respect and grant the devotion of all persons to every known variety of panthiestic superstition; but seriously, sir - a planet only 6000-8000 years old?
Remeber; the best lessons are always allegorical.
Because they are far less painful that way.

Music for cavemen

Busted — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:10:59 GMT

But, but, but... Adam and Eve were the first humans on this planet? Oh, this must be one of those scientific jokes, right? Surely the 'Holy Bible' is not a lie?! Come on, christians would not lie...

This is the main reason I LOVE geology. Factual, physical proof!

Music for cavemen

J. Michael Poapst — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:20:25 GMT

Sorry, the dating is wrong!!! The earth is not that old. Read Genesis and visit the creation museum in Kentucky under the direction of Dr. Ken Ham. Also when a T-rex is found with blood cells/tissues, the dating mechanisms are OFF!!!!!!!

Music for cavemen

RANDALL WELCH — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:44:53 GMT

I AGREE WITH DON BRADLEY GREELY, THE EARTH IS ONLY ABOUT 6000 YEARS OLD. IF THESE SCIENTIST WOULD STUDY THE WORD OF GOD LIKE THEY DO EVOLUTION THEY MIGHT SEE THINGS DIFFERENT.

Music for cavemen

Don Nixon Toledo, Ohio — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:55:49 GMT

Bone flute: so easy to play, a caveman can do it.

Music for cavemen

Jim Houston,Oxford,Al — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:02:02 GMT

Oh my God! What will the Christians say about this find! Oh thats right that the items were put there by the devil!

Music for cavemen

Michael Modelle — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:05:55 GMT

All we have to tell us the world is 7000 years old is one of many interpretations of the Bible. How anyone in this day and age can choose to ignore the centuries of multidisciplined evidence that whispers to us the truer age of all things is beyond me. All I can say to hard core fundamental Christians that are sure this planet is 7 thousand years young is don't let rational thoughts get in the way of your faith-based peace of mind. But listen up: It's the same science that builds airplanes allowing you to fly to see your family at Easter that builds the mountain of evidence about the age of Earth - and of our ancestors.

Music for cavemen

John, Bradenton,FL — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:13:13 GMT

This story seems to validate the theories of Steven
Mithen in his recent work, The Singing Neanderthals. In that work he amasses evidence that suggests that music was an active part of the life of early man and aided in the development of human language.

Music for cavemen

Daniel Levinson, Arcata, CA — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:50:04 GMT

Fascinating how human were the people that we refer to as "caveman", the term caveman conveying a sense of primitive brutishness reserved for animals. And to Don Bradley disbelieving the story due to what must be his "Caveman"-like beliefs, why would you even read a scientifically based report if your mind works on a tragically biblical plane? Just stick to your silly Bible stories.

Music for cavemen

John, Anchorage, Alaska — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:50:39 GMT

perhaps you guys are all just making too many assumptions. sure, it looks like it was handmade, but it might really have been an animal bite. or maybe it is human made, but was never used as a flute in the first place. we need more similar "flutes" before we can really be sure. until then, we are just guessing. is that what science has come to?

Music for cavemen

Guy Hammer, Bethesda, MD — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:06:52 GMT

Don Bradley - It is more likely that a biblical day was a million years during creation of the Earth. This is no place to bring Biblical time scales, unless you calibrate them to something that makes sense. There are a multitude of things that you will never understand if you don't accept science.

Music for cavemen

Joseph Hendricks — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:12:50 GMT

Hey Don,

It is a big problem. The big problem is that your sense of how old this world is -is WRONG. And no, the earth is not flat. Don't insult the Universe with your 6 to 7,000 year old world idea. Try to grasp the idea of space -time. The universe has stars out there that we see coming from much further away than 7,000 light years away.

Music for cavemen

Glenn Wilton, Hamilton, Canada — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:17:58 GMT

Has anyone considered the spacing of the holes? The second photo (the flute found in 1995) seems to have the holes unequally spaced -- sugesting that early man had an ear for a musical scale similar to ours, i.e. tone, tone, semi-tone.

Music for cavemen

Scotty MC, Houston, TX — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:23:28 GMT

Hey Don,

I sure hope you're exhibiting some sarcasm there; otherwise I worry about your grasp of science.

On another note (pun intended), it is quite interesting to see how music is so ingrained into our natural being and how even ancient humans found ways to express themselves and entertain others through music.

Music for cavemen

Tim Sawyer — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:31:49 GMT

This just goes to show us how much the Creator has placed into our spirits and minds. Music, weather produced by humans or animal sounds, is the Cosmic language nurishing our thirsty souls which are always seeking the Divine vibrations of Creation.

Music for cavemen

Jesse Tollison, Odessa,Texas — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:36:12 GMT

The two hole flute may have been a hunting signal tool, one tone means attack, second tone close in, third tone run away.like in a sporting event: blow the whistle to stop. Which is it 6,000 or 7,000 years? Christians always try to debunk the truth, and put there foolish sounding programmed propaganda/rhetoric in at every opportunity. I try to read something interesting and they always waist my time with that bunk. I guess they just can't fathom 50,000 years.

Music for cavemen

Josh, Seattle, Wash — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:53:40 GMT

Don Bradley,
The Lord obviously created the apparently older artifacts to test the faithful.

Music for cavemen

thor, Smithville, Iowa — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 04:08:31 GMT

dont get so excited guys, if u look carefully you'll notice the little "Made in China" sticker on it. some of u idiots may have evolved from monkeys, but not me dude. guess my ancestors were E.T's. that could explain my dominating intelligence over the lot of u neanderthals.

Music for cavemen

Fred van Sand — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 04:16:44 GMT

Is there even the slightest possibility that this was a musical instrument meant to entertain? (Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...) It is very interesting; key of Eb, Major, and pentatonic. Hmmmmm...

Music for cavemen

Mike, Bentonville, Arkansas — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 04:59:16 GMT

To Don Bradley in Greeley: For you to think that planet earth is only 6000 to 7000 years old is totally incorrect. Planet Earth is millions of years old you goob. Where do you get your information from? Ever learn anything in science class in school about the planet you are living on?!?! Uninformed, uneducated people like yourself bewilder me when you state things in blogs like this that are so incorrect. Get a clue before you speak.

Music for cavemen

Wade, El Paso, TX — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 05:00:24 GMT

So easy, a caveman could do it? Seems like we don't give our far-away ancestors enough credit for what they potentially could have done. Evolution probably makes us seem smarter in many ways, but there had to have been geniuses back in the family tree as well.

Music for cavemen

Andy Hausken Longville, Mn — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 05:20:09 GMT

Maybe it was first used as a tool to scare off dinasaurs, or any unwanted predator, and then from there evolved into a musical Instrument

Music for cavemen

Christine, Wilmington, DE — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 05:46:04 GMT

I am always happy to see prehistoric finds make the news, but sad that it seems necessary to mix in hyperbole, ethnocentrism, and general silliness to get peoples' attention. It would be great if we could stop calling nomadic gatherer-hunters "cavemen" and the female figures they made "Venuses". The former conjures many misconceptions and the latter implies understanding of prehistoric religion and aesthetics, things we will never know about prehistoric people because--by definition--they did not leave us a note to explain their intentions. The female form is indeed the most common subject of Paleolithic sculpture, but it is not the only one, and though those with large breasts get the most press, theirs is by no means the only body type depicted. The problem with perpetuating these long-discredited ideas is that once people think they have the answer (e.g., "It's porn; they're just like us.") they stop asking questions, and it's the questions that really matter.

Music for cavemen

Kathy, Ida, Arkansas — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:01:36 GMT

"And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ." Genesis 4:21. Wise in their own eyes, they became foolish - that's why, Don.

Music for cavemen

M~ Phoenix, AZ — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:25:29 GMT

What information has led Don Bradley (in one of the above comments) think this world is 6000 to 7000 years old? I'm very interested in knowing! Regardless of a time dispute, I find the flute to be a fascinating discovery.

Music for cavemen

Charlie Darrin, Austin, Texas — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:33:00 GMT

Don,

I would agree, "someone is a little bit off on the dates" and its not the scientists ... Please sir, come and join us in the 21st century, and leave 12th century religious dogmas in the 12th century where they belong ...

Music for cavemen

Bill Ewing — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:58:14 GMT

I find the comment on early man networking being the reason that neanderthal man did not survive reliable. Considering how wild early man and some of the practices including religion were that we probably killed off neanderthals just as many species are now extinct. Modern man still seems to bring to extinction many different species of life on this planet with little concern.

Music for cavemen

Rod, Boise, ID — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:01:50 GMT

The bear bone from Slovenia looks like a animal/bird call. Ever seen a wing bone call for turkey hunting? I'm going to add a few holes to mine and see what new sounds I can come up with.

Music for cavemen

John Dawes, Limoges, France — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:19:28 GMT

I must admit, I find the most astonishing part of this story to be the response by Don Bradley Greeley, "... I find that to be a big problem. Maybe it is just me. I guess someone is a little bit off on the dates. ...".
I didn't realise that the creationist theory, debunked by Charles Darwin and so many other scientists, was still believed - it probably is just him, then, who is the last person to do so.

Music for cavemen

Greg, Rochester, New York — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:44:24 GMT

Are you folks crazy? Maybe you have just been watching too many Geico commercials. I can not believe what the 'evolutionist theorists' tell me anymore.

Music for cavemen

J T Booker — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:49:40 GMT

To Don Bradley:
"This world is only 6000 to 7000 years old. " I think you had better think a little harder.

Music for cavemen

Frank Glover, Rochester, NY — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:00:34 GMT

Playing one is so easy that even a caveman...

(Sorry, that just slipped out.)

"I would have a tendacy to believe them, but there is only one problem. This world is only 6000 to 7000 years old. That means that the item would have had to be placed here at least 28000 years before this world existed. I find that to be a big problem."

Umm, yeah. I see how that would be. So...has it occurred to you that maybe, just maybe your notions of how old the Earth (and the rest of the Universe, wherein we can observe objects much more than 7000 light years away) is, might, just might be in need of revision?

Yes, it's just you.

"Porn and beer. Human nature hasn't changed at bit. "

Or at least guys haven't...

Music for cavemen

Mark Rossmore, Pensacola, FL — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:05:39 GMT

That flute is incredible. I love the earthiness of its sound, and how it has a clear musical scale. Pitch-perfect! It reminds me of a Native American Flute that I own.

@Mr. Greeley: I knew it was only a matter of time before the Young Earth Creationists showed up riding their Triceratops, bearing a chart listing the ages of all the people in the Bible. Exactly how does one measure time in the thousands of years worth of Old Testament when the 10 month Roman calendar wasn't even invented until 753 B.C.?

Why is it inconceivable to some that a person can believe both in God and in an evolution-based "Old Earth"? Who's to say a Divine Being didn't start things off billions of years ago and sat back to watch the results of their actions? I'm scientific minded but I'd be willing to listen to that argument. However, the uncompromising all-or-nothing approach of YEC and their overall disdain for anything remotely scientific is alarming.

Music for cavemen

Dave Ebert — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:30:00 GMT

The bear bone was probaly a bird call or whistle. Like the earliest art was mostly animal images, I suspect that the earliest deliberate music was imitative of animal sounds. It would only make sense that humans would imitate prey to attract them. This was probably the genetic beginning of musical ability, as a successful behavior that bred true as individuals who were good mimics caught more prey during the winter, therefore mating successfully with women who were hungry. Does this make sense? It is probably true that this process took place much earlier than 35000 years ago, though. 100,000? But the bear bone still looks like a whistle.

Music for cavemen

Glenn, Lihue Hawai'i — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:33:07 GMT

What a wonderful discovery! Science & technology of bringing things forward that once were asleep. What else shall we see? Is "Jurassic Park" closer to reality than a fictional cinematic expression?

Music for cavemen

Dave Ebert — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:33:33 GMT

It is always interesting to me when someone suggests that the world is ony 6,000 or 7,000 years old. What in Dogs Name are they doing even reading a science site? I would think the computer keys would be too far over their head to reach. Certainly the content is.

Music for cavemen

Ben Jimenez — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:38:31 GMT

To Don from Colorado,
I'm impressed that you are able to dismiss the empirical evidence from radiometric dating, tree ring dating, ice core sample dating, etc. from folks all over the world that agree that the Earth is much older
than 7,000 years old.I read that some time ago some university renegged on granting admission to several science students because they too believed as you do.The university argued that their ability to deny or distort the empirical data made them unqualified.
I couldn't agree more.You are certainly entitled to your beliefs but there can be real world consequences awaiting such antiquated thinking.

Music for cavemen

Bobaloo, Edmonton, AB. — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:41:35 GMT

Don - the world is not 6000 to 7000 years old. So your concerns are solved.

Music for cavemen

Doug Sloan, Terre Haute, IN — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:42:27 GMT

Alan: at your convenience please post an article about the various dating methods to which you allude in this article. Some people seem to think that the aging of prehistoric artifacts is more a matter of opinion than of evidence.

[ALAN ADDS: I'll quote a few things from the paper: "Several dozen radiocarbon dates from the Aurignacian [layer] of Hohle Fels have been published" ... 10 radiocarbon dates have been calculated for the basal Aurignacian where the flutes were found, based on measurements "made on collagen extracted from anthropogenically modified bone or charcoal at the Oxford Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit and the Leibniz Laboratyr, Kiel. The bones dated were all well preserved and produced good yields of collagen."... The resulting dates were between 31,000 and 40,000 years ago. "Although there is at present no universally accepted calibration for radiocarbon dates earlier than 30,000 years ago, available calibrations and independent controls using thermoluminescence and other methods indicate that dates of approximately 32,000 years ago correspond to roughly 36,000 years ago in calibrated years. This, we can be certain that the flutes from Hohle Fels pre-date 35,000 calendar years ago." Here's more about thermoluminescence, radioisotope dating and other techniques:]

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-dating-game

Music for cavemen

sarah hunter, waterloo, ontario — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:08:59 GMT

i don't think whatever it is was originally meant to only have 2 holes in it, you can clearly see the edges of two other holes bored into the bone where it currently ends jaggedly. they are in line with the two that are intact, suggesting that whatever it was, it used to be longer and have more holes.

Music for cavemen

goedjn, Kingston, RI — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:20:04 GMT

>>It would have been nice for them to mention
>>that,[...] it has been widely held for decades
>>that the first musical instrument was the bow
>>and arrow,

I expect the reason that they didn't mention is is that the earliest reliable evidence for a bow post-dates these flutes by around 27,000 years.

Music for cavemen

Ken R. — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:29:51 GMT

I can't believe that anyone in the U.S. (or even this planet) still believes that the world is only 6000 years old. It is truly amazing how difficult it is to rid us of ignorance.
I always say, "People believe what they want to believe regardless of the facts".

Music for cavemen

Karen Switzer Mansfield Ohio — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:38:50 GMT

Why is it that everyone seems so surprised when an artifact is found, such as this musical instrument. Of course people had music way back when and guess what? They also cooked, with pots and pans, and people back then had the most beautiful artwork. In fact I think it is much then our so called "modern art",. because it made sense. After all, it's not like they were stupid back then and the people living in this day and age somehow are smarter. Unless, of course, you count the weapons of mass destruction, or the many other inventions we have to harm or kill people. Oh, and lets not forget our "state of the art" modern day medicine, as I sit here with my young on-set parkinsons disease, (I'm 44),. But then, they probably didn't have all the wonderful chemicals we have, that can kill all those horrible bugs that eat just a very small portion of crops,.Or the genetically altered meat with the growth hormones that we inject in our cattle then later we feed our
kids,.It's my quess that the people that so many think wern't very smart, were actually geniuses because they could see into the future and know that these "inventions" would only cause a greater harm then what was already going on,.What do you think,.Karen

Music for cavemen

Adam inverness scotland — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:58:56 GMT

In response to Mr Bradley above is he sure this planet is only 6000 to 7000 years old? Interested in his source of reference.

Music for cavemen

dave Chapel Hill,NC — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:59:51 GMT

So in 34,900 years we have progressed and invented the atomic bomb, credit default swaps, crack and Viagra?

Music for cavemen

John wilson Stillwater, Oklahoma — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:00:40 GMT

That music is instictive and that instruments to make it are at the "dawn" of human consciousness should not surprise us. Young humans in our own time show natural" instictive" singing and dancing which alas, is "taught out" of most of them. They become the adults who believe that music, all the arts are a "frill". Dr. John wilson

Music for cavemen

Andrew Roper, Virginia Beach VA — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:21:27 GMT

Anyone who still believes that the world didn't exist until 6 or 7 thousand years ago, whether religiously motivated or not, needs to have their head examined. The scientific peer review and testing process virtually eliminates all possibility that the dating of the Earth is incorrect. Fine adjustments will occur over time as the technology improves but the basics remain the same. Furthermore, how do you explain the existence of man before they became Jews and wrote the Torah?

Music for cavemen

Brian, Keller, TX — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:35:01 GMT

It seems to me that a two-hole flute is on VERY shaky ground without some additional indication (of a mouthpiece, for example). Even if carved intentionally, it could just as easily be a necklace.

Music for cavemen

Jim Myers, Sioux Falls, SD — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:02:22 GMT

Hmmm I wonder if the parents of the musician thought he was straying and wished he would get a real job, like hunter gatherer, or maybe invent something useful like the wheel.

Music for cavemen

Brian, Eau Claire, WI — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:10:37 GMT

To Don Bradley, the last thing we need is another "Holy Roller" claiming this Earth is only 7,000 years old. [...]

Music for cavemen

Charles Fontanetti, Maricopa, AZ — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:14:36 GMT

I agree with Don Bradley Greeley above, but I would go a little further. I think there is a huge flaw in the dating system used. The flaw is that we have not been able to ascertain as of yet, when is it that the planet earth came to be. If we assume for a minute that the big bang theory is true, then, the material of which the earth is made is indeed old, but that doesn't prove that the earth is that old. In that case when people say this is a million year old or whatever, what is exactly are they referring to, since the material that forms the earth is much older than the earth. Furthermore, if big bang was true then, what was before big bang?
So there is a huge confusion of about the aged of the material of which the earth is made and the age of the earth itself.

Music for cavemen

Aaron, Weymouth MA — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:38:54 GMT

Don Bradley, I think your dates are off because the world is only about 4000 years old. Maybe this was a weapon used by man to fend off the dinosaurs that lived around that time. I think this is a much more plausible explanation. It's funny how people who are supposedly "scientists" can be so far off.

Music for cavemen

Fred — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:32:41 GMT

Given the cultural explosion taking place 35,000 to 40,000 years ago, we can hypothesize that Modern Man first appeared in Eurasia perhaps 50,000 years ago, having evolved within a small population of nearly-modern homo-sapiens that had 20,000 years earlier wandered out of Africa. Though neither the Neanderthals they met nor any Neanderthal/homo-sapien hybrids seem to have survived to this day, Modern Man remained capable of breeding with the slightly more archaic African homo-sapiens who survive to this day. The interbreeding that scientist proved has occurred probably helped the pre-modern African population partially catch up.

Music for cavemen

Adam — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:35:15 GMT

Why is it so hard to believe that people played music for the pure enjoyment of it just like they new now? Why do antropologists always have to attribute some weird religious or tribal networking gobledegook to it? Music is hardwired into our brain. Just look at children at a live concert sometime. No one taught them how sway and rock to the beat. It's just part of us.

Music for cavemen

James Felix — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:38:03 GMT

For the Creationists:

You are basing your worldview on a 6,000 year old book of unknown provenence basically because someone told you to. It's as though someone in the year 8009 had found my comic collection and accepted as fact that a spider bite gives you super powers.

For the athiests:

Don't bother calling them stupid, foolish etc. It will do no good. And don't assume it's just Christains, the religiously closed mind comes in many flavors.

Music for cavemen

James Felix, New York, NY — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:45:38 GMT

Furthermore, if big bang was true then, what was before big bang?
-------

Charles, there was nothing before the Big Bang. Literally nothing, space-time didn't exist. And the dating confusion you refer to doesn't really exist (although I'll allow for the possibility that you personally find it confusing).

But even if such confusion did exist that's no reason to say "oh, the answer is right here in this anonymously authored 6,000 year-old book. Guess we can stop looking". That's the path back into the dark ages, and though I'm sure many religious people would be just fine with that a whole bunch of us prefer civilization.

Music for cavemen

Allan, Denver, Colorado — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:52:27 GMT

Bishop James Ussher determined(?) that the earth was created on Sunday, October 23, 4004 BC by reading his bible. Hmmm, A Sunday, no less.

Music for cavemen

David, Chattanooga, TN — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:53:20 GMT

It confounds me how, on a daily basis, anyone can look at all the _facts_ about this Earth, it's _true_ age and still so erroneously conclude that our little planet is a mere 6,000-7,000 years old.

To make this statement is the same as saying the statues on Easter Island (Rapa Nui) are natural formations and actually believe it. How can anyone ignore scientific fact in favor of theological belief?

Music for cavemen

David Bacon, North little Rock, Arkansas — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:55:54 GMT

In fact if you would spend fifteen mins. reading the Bible weither you beleive it or not, You would see and learn that we do now indeed live on a planet in its second making. "In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the EARTH." When was the beginning and who can say how long creating the heavens and the EARTH took. If GOD started at the far end and created from one end to the other, the EARTH being some where in the middle it may have been "with out form and void:" for millons of years before GOD got back to around to creating man. "and darkness was apon the face of the waters" So what face? Could something have evolved here while GOD finished creating the rest of the universe? It says the spirt of GOD was on the earth BEFORE the light (sun?) was created. Read verce 7 of Genesis where it talks about dividing the heavens from the EARTH so that is two earths that are mentioned in just the frist 7 verces and still GOD hasn't created MAN. We are the "caveman" but who's to say there were not others here before man. If not, who was the clan of "nod" that Cain married into? Man may have been here for 6,000 to 7,000 years but we were the LAST thing GOD created. MAN perceives with his eyes, Truth perceives with his mind.

Music for cavemen

Ben Jimenez — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:32:09 GMT

To Don Greeley and Charles,
With all due respect- there is not confusion about the age of the Earth and the age of material that make up the Earth. Not among scientists and others who study such things.However you do have a point- kind of. Rocks are dated using one of 40 different radiometric methods that tell us how old that rock is.Doesn't really tell us how old the earth is. Common sense tells us that if a rock is found to be 1 million yerars old the Earth has to be at least that old. The material that makes up the dated rock could actually be older than 1 million years but not younger and here's why.When lava/magma cools and solidifies into rock some of the elements in the rock begin to decay and change into a different element.Scientists know how long it takes for each element to change and thus can tell how old that rock is. Potential error might occur if that million year old rock had been laying around for a billion years before it was melted by a lava flow and then solidified for the second time in it's life. Scientists know of this possibility and allow for it.
Here's the kicker though- this margin for error in dating rocks means that the rock material might be older than radiometric dating says-never younger. I learned about this from a Christian scientist named Dr.Roger Wiens who does radiometric dating as his job.He is concerned about his fellow Christians believing mis-information about radiometric dating. Look him up on the internet- it's called "Radiometric Dating: A Christian Perspective". Pretty cool stuff.

Music for cavemen

Tom, Nebraska — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:06:02 GMT

It is always interesting to hear the name calling from the Bible and Science sides of the age of the earth discussion. If you don't know or agree with the other sides point, they must be a Neanderthal!
Seriously though, how many of the Science based commenters here can give a knowledgeable explanation of how carbon dating (or any of the other types) works and what some of it's pitfalls might be? Solar radiation rates in the upper atmosphere, terrestrial carbon to nitrogen ratios, carbon sequestering rates just to name a few that might mess up your C14 incorporation rate.
On the Biblical side, how many have actually sat down with the text and tried to find where the 6,000 year number came from? Try looking up a name, Bishop Usher, if you are interested in following the trail. Put your geology aside for a few moments and just follow the logic of where all the texts lead and you come out to about that number. It is really quite amazing that such a thread could be followed through the accounts and not have any obvious gaps with no way to know. Then of course, consider how the misinterpretations (day/age theories, generational/ patriarch skipping (Luke vs. Matthew), etc.) could be applied given that the purpose of the text was not to nail down calendricals.
By the by Mark Rossmore, Roman calendars have nothing to do with it, all the figures are given in years, which has pretty well been 365 days in every culture and age....
Personally, setting aside the time for a creation "week", the 6,000 biblical years should more accurately be termed "the age of modern man" instead of the age of the earth. Given that the actual written history of man actually fits this period to a T, it is surprising that we so quickly believe "man as we know him" to have been active so long before this based on predictive science models. How are all those future looking models doing with a little tweak here or there eh? -climate change(ing) anyone?

Music for cavemen

Daniel, Ida, Arkansas — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:52:02 GMT

It is amazing at how people want to de-value humanity. Humans have not "evolved" from anything, and the faintist thought of evolution-in any form or value-being realistic is nothing more than an attack on the true creation of GOD. If you study evolution, you will find that it is the exact polar opposite of scripture. It is nothing more than dogma. Evolution is not able to even be proved by its own worshippers...SCIENCE. There has been NO PERSON ALIVE that has ever been able to prove the theory of evolution.

Music for cavemen

william, dayon, ohio, usa — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:11:27 GMT

Great photos, great find!! If a man could have been so intuitive and creative to discover and create such a device as a flute 35,000 years ago, why cannot the more modern developed mind see the difference between facts and faith? and or possibly simply accept that before faith becomes a fact, we might need a little more science to help us sort it all out!!!

Music for cavemen

Dennis, Piscataway, NJ — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:59:22 GMT

I think I might try using the creationist's math to calculate my golf scores. I'll be shooting well under par!

Music for cavemen

Christine, Wilmington, DE — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 01:48:31 GMT

No, Dave, it doesn't make much sense. You assume that eating comes from hunting (gathering was the primiary source of calories), that men were the primary providers (need I explain?), that a hungry woman would sit around waiting for a man to trade sex for food rather than getting the food herself (hmmm), and that Paleolithic people painted the animals they ate (not so much). They would have been awfully dim hunters if they had made paintings for sympathetic magic and painted the wrong things. The fact that we (their descendants--sorry, Biblical literalists) are here is a testament to their genius. There was no indication 40,000 years ago that our pitiful little species (no fur, no scales, no claws, no fangs, can't run or jump) would take over everyone else's ecological niches. They were very clever or we wouldn't have the luxury of sitting around and making ridiculous assumptions about them.

Music for cavemen

Steve Pearson, Lyons, CO — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 03:04:41 GMT

First of all, let us give Don a break. Lack of respect for others' beliefs is one of the chief reasons there is so much misery in the world.

As far as the purpose of the flute goes I am going to advance the idea that it was for self-expression. It may have started as a desire to capture the song of the birds but the purpose was to self-express like the bird. Also, playing such an instrument for a long period of time will put you into a zen-like state - for the listener as well as the performer.

Music for cavemen

Steve Pearson, Lyons, CO — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 05:16:44 GMT

Let us not forget either the natural reverberation of cave accoustics. Playing a flute inside a rock enclosure such as a cave is an extremely sonorous experience.

Music for cavemen

Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:19:27 GMT

A flute, with mouthpiece, seems pretty advanced. I’m wondering what would have been the first dedicated, built to be instrument instruments.

Charles Fontanetti, Maricopa, AZ (6/25, 1314)
We can date the cooling of rocks. The oldest rocks we find today aren’t necessarily “original” rocks. They could have cooled into rock, remelted, recooled, etc. several times, and the earth could have been too hot for rock for a long time before any “original” rock. So yes, there is some confusion about the age of the earth, but there is no confusion about the range. If you know a lady in her 90s but don’t have her birth records then there is confusion about exactly how old she is. There is no confusion about whether she’s a toddler or older than 40. The earth is old.

Ben Jimenez (6/25, 1532)
Your explanation is a bit confused, but you’re on the right track. If a rock solidified with some resultant nuclides already in it then it would test older than it really is. That translates to younger than tested. You could conceivably, from this defect, test lava from a flow last year as being older than the earth. There may be other dating methods with the potential to fail the other way. However, in reality, the tests are quite accurate because the resultants that are measured are cast out of the rocks structure at high temperatures. So as the rock solidifies it has a “clean slate” with a count at zero. This makes many forms of dating extremely reliable.

Daniel, Ida, Arkansas (6/25, 1652)
You can’t fit the requisite number of all the land dwelling animals we have today plus a year’s worth of food in the ark. Love the enthusiasm, just try not to look like a dolt. If creation ended and there is no evolution then the Bible must be a lie. Or we don’t have all the animals that we do have. Or a cubit is something like 10 feet.

Music for cavemen

Thomas Ashby — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:02:56 GMT

Does this trump the invention of the wheel? I say certainly. But then I was always of the artistic bend. I am certain that others will say " Ohh noo, the wheel is obviously infinitely of more utility than music."

Music for cavemen

Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 07:46:28 GMT

Utilitarian inventions help us conquer our more treacherous environments and survive. The arts let us enjoy those hostile conditions and give us a reason to live. I can’t imagine wanting to continue in someplace like Alaska, where you can see Russia from your porch, if the only reason was to continue the struggle tomorrow. Maybe something primal would kick in, but how depressing. I’ll vote for the flute over the wheel, too.

Music for cavemen

Uludağ Otelleri — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:26:04 GMT

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Music for cavemen

Steve Pearson — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:34:33 GMT

On further thought this could have been a fertility rite especially since the flute was found in close proximity to the "Venus". The cave was symbolic of the vagina, the flute symbolic of the phallus. Was the "Venus" pregnant? Kokopelli is associated with fertility. Just how far back does that go?

Music for cavemen

Nancy Elgin — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:33:49 GMT

I do not know what Bible ya all are reading. #1 Adam and eve were not the only people on earth they were given an opportunity to be guardians over a beautiful garden and screwed that up. There is always life before and after what we know.