Six mind-blowing ideas

steve smyth — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:15:56 GMT

almost as beautiful as Earth, eh?
quite a pic, Alan...can we get a link to larger image?...the colors are awesome!

Six mind-blowing ideas

Eric, Salinas, CA — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:16:28 GMT

What an interesting article, thanks Alan for giving us "untwits" who don't tweet the rundown today. A real smorgasboard of concepts to think about today.

Don't forget to give Star Trek a nod for it's show about silicon life forms. Considering how many extremeophile life forms we've found on earth I wouldn't be too surprised if we found life based on something other than carbon. I hope I'm alive when we find evidence of life beyond earth.

I'm not surprised that religion is far more like the dark morality talked about in the conference, especially as regards the dark concepts of purity and sanctity. Isn't it time for humanity to grow up and give up their imaginary "godlike" friends?

There was a good show on a long while back about the Perlemian Extinction event 250 million years ago. Actually there were several causes for this mass extinction event among them the Siberian Traps volcanic action and global warming that heated up the oceans and released trapped poisonous gases. Yeah we're seeing a repeat of this killing phenomenom and if we don't get global warming under control we're going to face an extinction event like what happened 250 million years ago. Actually we need to get the global population boom under control before we overpopulate ourselves to extinction.

A pity that Stephen Hawking was sick and couldn't attend. I wish him a speedy and full recovery so he can continue to dazzle us with his amazing theories of gravity and black holes.

Six mind-blowing ideas

A. Hoffman PhD MD, Chicago IL — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:31:07 GMT

Except that, "conservative" expressions of morals are more often than not, motivated out of psychological maladjustment - a deep fear of the world and those things that are different.

So the sexual morality professed by conservatives is a direct reaction to the urges within themselves they have difficulty controlling. Likewise, their expressed patriotism is not genuine, but comes from a place of pervasive fear - of abandonment, of suffering great harm, etc. So they tend to cling to group identity as a talisman against the terror they experience. This is why they treat any perceived "threat" to group dynamics (differing opinions, differing religions) as direct threats to their own existence.

Really, if you take a bunch of abused 12y/o boys and study their world view - you get staunch "conservative" talking points out of them.

Therefore as expressed in the US, conservative values are nothing more than maladaptive attempts at coping with overwhelming fear/terror and/or trying to process and integrate highly traumatic experiences from their past. Republicanism/Conservatism seem to be symptoms of post-traumatic decline rather than organically formed moral values.

Six mind-blowing ideas

BamaBoy — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 17:24:29 GMT

So is Haidt suggesting that conservatism is analogous to the concept of survival of the fittest? I remember hearing about the larger Wall St fish saying that the market should be completely free so that market principles could be the rule. These big fish on Wall St. compared it to survival of the fittest. Kinda scary if you think about it...

Six mind-blowing ideas

Enrique Perez, Houston, TX — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:04:08 GMT

I am glad to see that there is some other people around this planet thar actually can catch the idea of "life as we do not know it". No science-fiction, no weird stuff, no non-sense: our planet is a good example, but so is our solar system and our galaxies and the nebulas and constellations around ours. Is it too hard to see? Yes, probably we can not understand or grasp the concepts, but, life as we do not understand IS ACTUALLY IN FRONT OF OUR NOSES THIS VERY MOMENT . . . IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE FROM THE BEGINING OF TIME . . . greetings from the milky way !

Six mind-blowing ideas

mike ryan shoreline, wa — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:42:32 GMT

Tell me more Alan. This is intersting stuff.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Steve Moniz — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:10:02 GMT

I'd be a bit leery of Jonathan Haidt's parallels between social science and physical science. That hasn't always worked out so well.
Social Darwinism starved a few million Irishmen.
The Theory of Relativity (and perhaps Godel's Incompleteness Theorem) are used to justify moral relativism.
You want to be real careful reinterpreting physical science principles into social terms.

Six mind-blowing ideas

CF Studios — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:35:24 GMT

(A layman's thoughts) I've always wondered if the search for the BEGINNING of life was misguided. Maybe it's an ongoing process. Why can't life still be created now? The organisms around geothermal vents, for instance...it seems just as possible that they ORIGINATED there, rather than MIGRATED to there. Could we get a scientist's opinion on this please?

Six mind-blowing ideas

MDR, Boca Raton FL — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:07:33 GMT

There is only darkness in snaking immortal gods and the sun of the true one, and that is the problem with the conservatives. The pit of illusion radiates hatred to your neighbor.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Alan Boyle — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:19:54 GMT

Steve, for bigger pix of Titan:

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA09034

Six mind-blowing ideas

steve smyth — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:26:48 GMT

RE Humanity's mind-blowing rise...check out a timeline...population doubled in fifty years...the exact same fifty that saw us become totally dependent upon PetroChems...like it or not...OIL IS US...and right now our medium for success has become the demon...what a weird bunch we are!
don'tcha think?

Six mind-blowing ideas

Tim, San Diego — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 21:41:55 GMT

Alan, Thank you very much for the article and for posting the hi-res photo of Titan.
I've always thought that if we actually found life that evolved somewhere other than Earth, it would be perhaps so alien to us that it would be almost unrecognizable as life as we know and classify it. One of the things that has always bothered me is that so much Sci-fi will portray alien life as tetrapods (2 arms, 2 legs, backbone, head with possibly a tail) and there is no reason that alien life would stem from something similar to an Earth salamander as so much of our animals have. An interesting thing to ponder would be how would we communicate with an alien life form, assuming intelligence. You would have to try to communicate some basic universal concepts such as math and perhaps chemistry. But, where would you go from there? Also, intelligent alien life may think at an entirely different speed than ourselves. Intelligent plants or crystalline based lifeforms may take such a great deal of time to transfer a message that we may mistake it for noise.
Thanks again for the article.

Six mind-blowing ideas

newscaper — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 01:46:45 GMT

It is with great amusement that I see the enlightened, open-minded,rational proudly self-described 'liberals' displaying their knee-jerk emotional responses to some hard data that casts at least a *little* doubt on their normally unquestioned self-assuredness, simplifying all intellectual opposition to caricature.

If one takes Dawkin's concept of memes even half way seriously it should be obvious that meme-bundles (cultures) are more likely to survive if they have some of that 'dark' (talk about loaded terminology! - regardless of the cosmological analogy) in-group loyalty to help them cohere.

Me? I'm a knuckle-dragging libertarian-conservative AKA 'classical liberal'.

Six mind-blowing ideas

newscaper, Mobile, AL — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 01:55:32 GMT

BTW, I'm surprised the conference didn't discuss the recent publication claiming to identify a large Antarctic impact basin under the ice corresponding to the 250mya extinction and the antipodal Siberian Traps, which would suggest the impact caused them, similar to the way the Hellas Impact Basin on Mars is opposite the great plateau containing Olympus Mons and the other volcanoes.

But then that might mean passing up another gratuitous, spurious yet obligatory anthropogenic global warming tangent.

Six mind-blowing ideas

newscaper — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 01:59:07 GMT

re:
"Don't forget to give Star Trek a nod for it's show about silicon life forms."

Uh, google Julius Scheiner, 1891. Kinda predates Roddenberry.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Boka, springfield, pa — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 03:34:53 GMT

Nothing mind blowing at all.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Willa Cartwright, Zürich, Switzerland — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 05:28:11 GMT

I'd be interested in finding out if Haidt did really say "... conservatives might be on the smarter track... Charles Darwin, etc" or if that is an interpretation of the reporter.

I can't imagine any serious researcher making such a value judgment.

[ALAN ADDS: You have a point there - that statement involves some interpretation on my part, and so I've removed the direct attribution in the item and have added some explanation of the context. Thanks for keeping me honest. You should review Ethan Zuckerman's blog post on the subject for more on the liberal/conservative split and Haidt's thoughts on it.]

Six mind-blowing ideas

Michael, Columbus, Ohio — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 12:34:42 GMT

Its also a shame that Carl Sagan is not still with us today. I corresponded with him on the topic of silicon-based life as a high school student in 1975. I still have the letter that he was kind enough to send to me.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Terrie G. — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:05:51 GMT

This is great plain speaking for an English nerd like me. Although science has never been my subject there are certain theories and fields of study that have always fascinated me and you hit most of them. What constantly amazes me that after looking at the cosmos or a cancer cell we cannot heal or remove that we as humans do not realize how much we do not or cannot know. If we were as all powerful as we think there would be no cancer, AIDs, and travel outside of our cosmos would be common. Humans cannot base all of science on what occurs on Earth. Our life forms and atmospheric conditions tend to engender a certain form of life, but who is to say what is possible in other galaxies with different gravities, solar systems, minerals, etc. It's what we cannot know that leads to curiosity, creativity, faith and hope. If we are constantly travelling, it's not the destination that's important but the journey that led us there.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Eugene Kudrow — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:38:35 GMT

to A Hoffman PHD MD, if you are smart enough and you think long enough and hard enough, you can come to the rationale that supports your world view. The interesting thing about that, is your mind is basically leading you to a place where you don't have to consider conservative positions any more than you believe they will consider yours. Ah, isn't self-validation gratifying?

Six mind-blowing ideas

David byrne ,Jacksonville FL — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 14:42:59 GMT

Well i think that we can try to find life on this planet if we really try i think it can hold some life if we gave it some life.But i dont really no i am just in high school.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Barry U. Headinsand, Lakeland, Fl — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 16:52:31 GMT

I fail to see the social advantages of "dark" morality.
Patriotism and conformism speak to an "us vs. them" attitude that insists two social groups see each other as competitors for resources. Seems to me that groups who value fairness and reciprocity without the burden of the dark morals would tend to work cooperatively to manage their resources. The dark morality social groups would work it out with spears.
The dark morality empasis on taboos and support for authority would tend to make societies cling to irrational, possibly counterproductive behaviors and attitudes. Without the dark morals, a society would be free to view their behavior more objectively and develop a set of behaviors and attitudes best suited for their present place in an ever-changing world.
A better interpretation of dark morality might be as a sociological vestigial organ - a remnant of an earlier developmental phase when we were still more bestial than rational.

Six mind-blowing ideas

dorothy bish — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 17:08:35 GMT

where in the 'morality' catagory do we put all the explorers--land, sea, sky---inventers--all the people who venture into the unnown? These are'nt fearful conforming souls.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Robert Nachtegall, Grand Rapids, MI — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 17:25:33 GMT

Leave it to professionals like the doctor above to tell me why I'm REALLY a conservative. So if I don't 'feel' or recognize any of the symptoms described, I must either be delusional or just pathological in my behavior?

For someone who just finishing pegging an entire group of people based on their belief, you've only managed to validate my stereotype of the academic community.

I'd recommend picking up a book on the fallacies of Explanation and Statistical Syllogisms.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Don — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 19:02:38 GMT

Six Mind blowing ideas? Nothing blew my mind. just another writer, over sell, and under deliver.

Six mind-blowing ideas

J. T. Wash — Tue, 07 Apr 2009 21:38:05 GMT

A. Hoffman PhD. Are we supposed to believe that Benjamin Franklin and John Adams had the world view of a bunch of abused 12y/o boys? What a narrow and intolerant view you have of conservatism. I'd be surprised if you even know what conservatism means. Conservatism is an ideal, an intellect, and a discipline that looks at the world logically. We rebel against the conformity and group think of liberalism. Causatives believe, in a nut shell, in a few things. They are smaller government and the greatness of human potential. We believe people "Can". Where as liberals believe, people "Cannot" and therefore need big controlling government. Conservatives like humans. We don't see ourselves as evil problems, but rather part of a wonderful solution. I just wish you'd admit that liberals like you really just hate conservatives and even more so, hate America, and in some degree hate Mankind.

If Conservatism is formed from sort of post-traumatic decline, then Liberalism, is formed from by indoctrination into a group think mentality. Where the outcomes of your decisions are never required to pass any value test. The true worth of a liberal idea is always the intentions of actions. Accountably is absent. Therefore liberalism and logic cannot coexist. Darwin certainly knew this. Now why don't you take a really good look at your self righteous ass and ask yourself, just how accepting are you of other view points? Especially conservative viewpoints.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Mike Maxwell, Laurel MD — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 01:43:45 GMT

The comment from A. Hoffman PhD MD is so incredibly off the wall and elitist that one might almost imagine that it came from a Right-winger trying to discredit the Left by parodying them. Almost.

Six mind-blowing ideas

TAV, Washington DC — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 16:37:48 GMT

Re: A. Hoffman PhD MD and responses to his/her post:

He/she never said his/her idea of "'conservative' expression of morals" was categorical. He/she used the phrase "more often than not" and "SEEM to be symptoms of post-traumatic decline rather than organically formed moral values." Re: J.T. Wash and dorothy bish, this leaves open the possibility of inventors and true free-thinkers who aren't/weren't psychological driven by fear, etc. Not knowing Ben Franklin and John Adams, or having studied them in great detail, I'm in no position to judge where their actions came from, but I would tend to lean towards innovation. Using an argument by relying on the definition of a single word (conservatism) isn't very convincing as anyone can assign their view to a word and change its definition. For example, the ideals you've just described are actually what many liberals view within themselves (intellect, rationality, seeing greatness of human potential, etc) and see the opposite within conservatives (group-think, conformity). Admittedly, I'm liberal regarding policies such as gov't assistance/welfare because it can provide those less fortunate, but who have potential and the desire to achieve success, more opportunities (myself having been in this position). Of course I realize this isn't always the case, but that potential is what makes it valuable.

One shouldn't judge a "liberal" or a "conservative" based on the title but rather the logic behind why they believe what they believe. I've personally seen enough examples of both "conservatives" and "liberals" who exercise group-think and conformity. Also, re: A. Hoffman, he/simply presented an idea based on psychological cause and effect. That seems fairly logical to me (not saying it's right or wrong, but you seemed to indicated that it wasn't logical).

Lastly, accountability is important, but the true worth of an idea/action/person is in its/his/her intent. How truly good is it that a good deed was done for a bad reason? Where's the virtue in that?

Six mind-blowing ideas

Laymen thinker, Albuquerque, NM — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:59:52 GMT

[[A better interpretation of dark morality might be as a sociological vestigial organ - a remnant of an earlier developmental phase when we were still more bestial than rational.]]

My initial thoughts on "Dark Morality" are similar to yours. It seems to me that dark morality is nothing more than one [of many] step[s] along the evolutionary path of human societal consciousness. Assuming modern society survives, as we and our value systems regarding social and cultural diversity grow & evolve, common [and in some ways pervasive] defensive & paranoid group posturing will reduce simply because it is more advantageous to value your neighbor, his & her cultural difference and coexist with each other vs. not.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Ri Stewart — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 21:46:44 GMT

That's quite a group of materialist cynics contemplating how to pull life and society back together from a viewpoint where ethics and morality are not needed. Consciousness is the ground of being, not matter.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 05:24:29 GMT

A. Hoffman,
I've had occassion to study the world views of 12 year old boys who had been abused and they expressed very liberal attitudes. Conservatism is about society and liberalism is about individuality. In the case of these boys, and girls, their abuse led them into concern for themselves only. Granted, these kids were just shy of being institutionalized, again for some of them, and they may not be representative. So I'll hold out the possibility that there may be some validity to your statements. Moreso, I think, the closer you get to the very liberal mentality that not buying your kid the newest, coolest cell phone constitutes the "abuse" you spoke of.

Six mind-blowing ideas

bill, nh — Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:37:50 GMT

TAV, Washington DC

"Lastly, accountability is important, but the true worth of an idea/action/person is in its/his/her intent. How truly good is it that a good deed was done for a bad reason? Where's the virtue in that?"

I believe the previous reference to liberals obsessing over "intent" versus "result" was meant in the political realm. Looking at historic crime rates versus gun control laws, for example, shows that crime rates almost universally move in the opposite direction of gun control laws, more restrictions lead to more crime and vice-versa. Yet liberals will promote gun control with the misconception of lowering crime. Likewise, many of the social economic engineers who have "helped poor people get into homes" through political means in recent history have helped lead to a financial crisis which has done anything but "help the little guy." Many other such examples exist.

When it comes to government, which supports it's policies with force, intentions are irrelevant. So while you may argue that some intellectually challenged leftists is a "good person" with a high "true worth," that doesn't justify him imposing his emotionally based and ineffective policies on me, through government force.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Greg G — Mon, 13 Apr 2009 21:29:47 GMT

You can get a higher res shot of Titan in IR here:

http://www.scientificblogging.com/news/mysterious_radio_waves_on_titan

Six mind-blowing ideas

steve.newcastle,nsw,australia — Tue, 14 Apr 2009 13:11:22 GMT

move to australia

Six mind-blowing ideas

carolynn schneider, glassboro, nj — Wed, 15 Apr 2009 10:24:17 GMT

The responses to this article were a hoot! I expected a discussion of ideas, but see that so many responses were just like the ones that follow almost any Fox News story--aspersions thrown about--only with bigger words strung together in actual sentences written by people with, I'm assuming, lots of letters after their names.

Six mind-blowing ideas

eleanor ruby moon, geelong, australia — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:57:59 GMT

steve.newcastle, nsw, australia. Please, don't tell them our secret. We don't want everyone coming here and ruining it.

Six mind-blowing ideas

CommonJoe — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 04:09:37 GMT

All human life can be seen as a game, with some rules set by nature and the rest from the authority of man. Most moves are decided by the luck of the draw, with only a little control of the move decided by free will, motivation and understanding of game.
When mankind was .01 percent the dark morals helped him win the game. At 98 percent, the rules from the authority of man have become greater than that of nature. Therefore, today the dark morals play less of a role in winning. That is, in more evolved societies which have a stronger "rule of law".

Six mind-blowing ideas

David Anderson — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:27:18 GMT

The most interesting life forms to encounter in the great beyond might turn out to be the deadliest: human beings. I wonder if their weapons are as good as ours. Someone might end up on the menu.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Hobbes — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:39:12 GMT

The liberal's current preoccupation with food smoke and drink hearkens back to the Puritans. A Puritan is an individual that is tormented by the possibility that someone, somewhere may be having fun.
As for Liberals as a subspecies, I have always regarded them as people who like to be generous with other people's money.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Jim Pettit — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:54:31 GMT

I tend to agree with Dr. Hoffman. The 'morality' displayed by most who call themselves conservative is based not on what that person feels is right and just and good and ethical, but what they've had force fed to them at home and in church and, of late, via talk radio. Such 'morality' is what allows them to, for instance, proclaim a level of Christianity, yet show contempt, disgust, and hatred for those with a different accent or color or sexual orientation; it's what allows them to preach from various holy books on the weekend, then steal, lie, and cheat their way through the rest of the week; it's what allows them to loudly shout how much they love America and Americans, then add the whispered disclaimer, "...so long as those Americans are white, English-speaking, native-born Christians."

On the other hand, most who call themselves liberal display morality based on value judgments, and what's best for society as a whole. It's why they believe in, as JFK said, caring about the welfare of the people--their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties; it's why they can look ahead and not behind, and welcome new ideas without rigid reactions; it's why they believe in (also as JFK said) "...human dignity as the source of national purpose, human liberty as the source of national action, the human heart as the source of national compassion, and the human mind as the source of our invention and our ideas."

Say whatever else you want, conservatism *is* fear-based. The fear of anything new or foreign or strange is a great motivator to them. Whether that "thing" is an accent, or a lifestyle, or a presidential candidate, if it doesn't fit into their neat and tidy preconceived notions of how things should be, they rage and seethe. It's evident in the "Birther" movement; it's evident at the shock many on the Right display when confronted with a homosexual or bi-racial couple; it's even evident here in this very forum when a person speaking logically and quietly is widely vilified for speaking what s/he believes to be the truth.

Six mind-blowing ideas

Dennis Tully, Chicago — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:54:08 GMT

Sorry about the late post, but I just tipped into this from a "dark morals" link...
Uh, Jim, hypocrisy is part & parcel of humanity, not just limited to your daffynition of "conservatives." See: JFK/infidelity...
Further, I'm not sure that Conservatives (less government/less tax) have any concern at all about the ethnic "Other," except as it relates to burdening the taxpayer. There's no reason to think they "show contempt, disgust, and hatred for..." Baptist African-American hairdressers, or industrious Pentecostal Latino day-laborers, and there's every reason for them to call out welfare-cheating polygamist Morman families, or budget-busting Yuppublicans.
This bizarre concept of labeling a political point-of-view as "fear-based" is really off-base; if you aren't afraid of Al-Queda, nuclear Iran, ChiComm slave labor economy, or MS-13, then you do not understand them... you can go ahead and co-operatively engage them in dialogue, and I'll respectfully sweep up your ashes. In case your PHD/MD hasn't taught you anything about human history & criminal nature, there are a lot of people out there worthy of your fear.
In view of how twisted human interpretation of humanity is, how will we ever discuss math and chemistry with an interstellar jellyfish civilization?