Hope on a pale blue dot

steve smyth — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 01:21:40 GMT

If looking up don't make ya wanna b'lieve in something, check yer pulse.
It's all the same place, and we are in it!
Season's Best...

Hope on a pale blue dot

Mike Elman,Montreal,P,Q — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 01:22:50 GMT

Mankind is always curious;even if it means being stupid and exploring space!Carl Sagan was a great astronomer!But aliens are not important;Our world is so screwed up;First mankind has to look at their doomed planet!

Hope on a pale blue dot

Dan Stewart, Butler,PA — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 01:39:06 GMT

let's save the little blue dot for future generations stop global warming now!

Hope on a pale blue dot

Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 02:53:07 GMT

If I was an alien aware of the despicable impact the inhabitants of earth were inflicting on that poor blue dot and themselves, after travelling through untold vistas, I would certainly want to do something about it.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 03:13:57 GMT

i like the bridges between planets art by the 19th century french artist. Popular science dreams of faster than light bridges linkng physical places.

Hope on a pale blue dot

George Dwyer, Spring Hill, Florida — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 03:31:34 GMT

As we slowly grow conscious of our galactic position, our place "in the heavens" becomes as clear as our
understanding of eachother.

Hope on a pale blue dot

dying_to_know — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 03:32:44 GMT

The universe is full of wonders so numerous that one person would be hard-pressed to ponder each and every one for a few minutes over the course of one's lifetime(try reading ALL of ScienceDaily.com's articles, for example). And recent news seems to indicate that it is also too late to stop global warming, with all it's horrible implications. The end of the world as we know it? Probably. Possibly. The end of times coming? And foretold, predicted, a few thousand years ago. My oh my!

Hope on a pale blue dot

Frank Glover, Rochester, NY — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 03:54:34 GMT

Why do you speak as if preserving this world and exploring others, are mutually exclusive? Ours is a civilization that *can* walk and chew gum at the same time.

And if you don't believe that, then do you realistically believe that the sliver of resources devoted to space exploration would (or could) be diverted to your pet causes? Trust me, it's never that simple.

And if you still disagree...then why *are* you reading a space-oriented blog?

Hope on a pale blue dot

Rod, Houston — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 05:27:30 GMT

So why, again, spend your time on a science blog talking about religion?

Hope on a pale blue dot

Robere,Mendocino, CA — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 05:35:44 GMT

It is Christmas time one more in our part of the Galaxy
Around our globe a prayer be heard for a world all wish would be
A message of love and joy and peace for idle hearts to know
Words of inspiration and a commitment to make it so
So may joy reside within your heart and peace embrace your soul
May the light of love guide your every step in this your Earthly stroll
And may you be, this Christmas, all which you hold dear
But most of all, may your Christmas be every day of every year

__ Robere

Hope on a pale blue dot

Carlene Watson Cincinnati Ohio — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 07:41:09 GMT

Carl Sagan was a wonderful man and I believe strongly we are not alone. I feel we must spreas our wings and try to find these aliens as we are their seed. Besides they may be able to help with all our whoas. Global warming I feel is not in part our doing. The earth has a cycle and many things can bring about that cycle and whose to say if she is warming due to us maybe this world is suppose to be warmer and yes it may not be good for man.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Scott Rhodes, VA — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 09:18:51 GMT

Why are we being subjected to religious dogma in a science column? I wonder how many Mosques and Churches preach about the wonders of Quantum Physics, Cosmology or Evolution? Perhaps, mankind would be better off if they did!

[ALAN ADDS: Whenever we have one of these discussions over science, religion, politics, culture, etc., there are always comments about "why do I have to read this in a science blog" ... There's a reason why this is called Cosmic Log, and not Science Log or Space Log. As I said in the beginning (May 13, 2002), this is a place to reflect on the "follies and mysteries of mankind" as well as the wonders of the wider cosmos.]

Hope on a pale blue dot

Dave, Victoria, BC — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:38:22 GMT

Organized religion is just another socio-political entity engaged in suppression of the ideas and lifestyles which it cannot control or subvert to its own agenda. Religion has no place in science, just as science has no place in religion. One deals with beliefs, one deals with facts. Don't confuse the two.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Jason Wells — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:57:33 GMT

Everyone has faith in a god, whether it be Christ, Buddha or themselves. I hope you pick the right one.
I pick the only one that knows the future and told us about it. I pick the one that gave his life for me to live.
Christ is Lord of all.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Steve of Stevenage — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 11:05:07 GMT

Time to raise the Christianity vs science debate. Richard Dawkins, in debate with John Lennox, stated that he was an atheist and therefore not religious and did not need to rely on faith at which point John reminded him that if to believe in a God takes faith then to believe in no God takes just as much faith. The Bible states "In the beginnng God", Carl Sagan states "In the beginning Matter" neither side can prove nor disprove the other, a stalemate so to speak; or a 50-50 choice in the greatest of all questions, the "Meaning of Life". When someone bakes a Cake, science can analyze the cake and decribe the very chemical make-up of the cake, its weight, dimensions and even shelf-life but it CANNOT explain why the cake was made in the first place. In the same way science without God can only answer some questions but not all. So instead of Science OR Christianity I say Science AND Christianity because to me, a scientist and a Christian, I see Science as the revelation of God's wonderful creation. To me an understanding of the nature of God from the little I can understand from the Bible makes so much sense when observing the facts obtained from Scientific experimentation.

So, Happy Birthday Jesus and please continue to allow us to discover your universe.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Ben Roth, Julian, Ca. — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:00:31 GMT

When you look at the Galaxy, you go to wonder why is man imiagation limited to thinking of the Big Bang. Yet, with the plants set in place you know there is a God and he sent his son to gather his selected from one ends of the heavens to the other. So Christmas is reason we have to not only look at God but he creation of our Galaxy and Earth. We are and won't be the first to destory our own planet cause of man's greed and selfness.
Ben

Hope on a pale blue dot

John Doe, Springfield, MO — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:10:43 GMT

What a wonderful time to think back on: Hope and long-haired intellectualism will ultimately save us.

DING!....times up....evil won.

Decide what you are going to do with the time you have left.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Robert, Alto, Tx — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:19:57 GMT

Don't worry about man destroying the world Jesus (The Word) Made the world and only he will destroy it. Then He will give us a much better one. Everyone should be looking foward to that. Believe in Jesus and everything will be OK and you wont have to set around worrying about what is going to become of the world. You Know scientist are wrong more often than they are right, but God almighty and Jesus are always right. Study your Biblical prophisey.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Sean Hannity — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:27:14 GMT

Thomas Ashby. . .You are an Alien, You are from Canada

Hope on a pale blue dot

jesseb,applevalley,ca. — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:53:28 GMT

the universal thought s/b peace and harmony.for the heavens are basis of our eternity,no end found.....

Hope on a pale blue dot

DeityFree — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:56:57 GMT

Re: ...be respectful of others' (quote)
Re: ...if you don't believe in God. (quote)

Ever notice how we so subtly discriminate and disrespect with implied semantic meaning? For example, God is always used as singular - one - the only one. You never say "...believe in A god...or ...gods." This only serves to keep the focus on the mid east judaic christianity semantics and on the one god concept. That way we do a subtle mind game of influence on the listener. That is disrespectful of other cultures that don't have one central deity! It serves to exclude them from the conversation. It is also disrespectful of those that are deity free. These two groups contain a substantial portion of the worlds people today. They deserve more respect. Stop the semantic written discrimination..... please!

[ALAN ADDS: Actually, that's a good point, and I'll amend the reference. Thanks!]

Hope on a pale blue dot

Greensboro, NC — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:17:26 GMT

Great article. I will just point people to my website and youtube about the film I'm working on that is inspired and dedicated to Carl Sagan & Stanley Kubrick:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8A0uoNQCOc

http://www.outsideinthemovie.com/

Hope on a pale blue dot

Richard Tucker, New York, NY — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:20:32 GMT

Thanks Carl Sagan; Neil DeGrasse, Albert Einstein, Corpornicus and countless other brilliant other people from saving me from just having to listen to neo-cons.

Hope on a pale blue dot

James Staples — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:48:15 GMT

It's a sad thing to note that the reason it was once 'scandalous' to consider the possibility of Extraterestrial Life, is the same reason so many Scientists are Atheists! But then one could be BURNED AT THE STAKE ALIVE (case in point: Bruno!) for such beliefs, in the not-so-distant past.
Even the Hubble Constant reeks - in my not-so-humble view - of 'Pre-Copernicanism'; as it assumes that we are - still - at the center of the Universe!
Personally: I believe in Physical Evolution - like Dawkins; but also in 'Soulular' Evolution - like my fellow Buddhists; thus I see no conflict with Science in my Faith.
And now in the Primitive Ancestor Derived Silly Dogma Department: Let us all pray that the Dragon who has been trying to swallow THE SUN (!) spits it back out Tommorow!

Hope on a pale blue dot

Jon One, APO, AP — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:16:39 GMT

Words are never sufficient, but here goes. All "facts" of mankind are based upon core assumptions, primarily observation (although most such as Einstein rely first upon some form of intuition -- or thought experiments -- and then use observation to "prove" the "facts" revealed by intuition to the rest of the world)...as if observations alone were enough to make an interpretation of the "facts" be absolute truth. If observations were the Truth, we might still be stuck in the dark ages, using solely Newtonian mechanics to build mathematical models of the universe. As it is, science uses Quantum models and stochastic methods to predict the universe when required to the level of detail at which Newtonian mechanics fail (for instance, satellite technologies require relativistic calculations). Even the most modern models and theories break down or are imperfect. Stochastic methods are actually a great way to understand the universe, that is, there is a calculable probability that anything anyone can imagine is possible. In fact, there is some probability that NOTHING really exists. The point is: Time and Again Mankind's Fundamental "Facts" as revealed to and by the most gifted and revered minds of their respective times have PROVEN FLAWED. And yet, we find among us those who utterly dismiss the possibility of a God. I would submit that the search for God is science. It is the search for Truth -- is there a God or not? This is the essence of why we exist -- to answer this question. Anyone who loves life cannot deny God, by whatever religion, is currently the only chance any of us have to continue living beyond the death of the physical body. The option is complete death and acceptance of death as the limit of everything, including our world when it is eventually engulfed by the sun, and including our universe when it eventually collapses into itself due to gravity. At least those are the current theories of our eventual demise...in the case that we fail to destroy ourselves first...if global warming has not already accomplished this end. Therefore, I will continue to pursue life and to seek God, with all my heart, soul, and mind, through scientific methods and any other tool available to me, flawed though these are. This God I pursue is the same God that requires me to love my fellow humans as I love myself. Godspeed and Merry Christmas!

Hope on a pale blue dot

Tommy, Fort Worth, TX — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:32:25 GMT

I just wonder about all of you who are complaining about what we are doing to our world; What are you doing to solve the problems besides complaining on a blog? So far all I've done is write my Congresswoman one to two emails a day expressing my concerns but I know I can do more.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Jonathan E. Kiser — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:38:07 GMT

I think that the most important aspect of this article is that regardless of position on "faith" that this is a time that we can take to reflect on how wonderful that we are alive and that perhaps it is a time just as good as any to start changing our world for the better. Listen! We whom have no religion are just in awe (if not more) about our existance and often are far more humbled because we feel this is our one-and-only chance to a happy life. Thanks to Carl Sagan's efforts and those that follow in his footsteps this "pale blue dot" may one day enter into a new era when superstition and folklore are trumped by fact and real knowledge that promotes the common good and welfare for all mankind.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Margie K — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:19:56 GMT

I will be celebrating the solstice. Thank you for mentioning that.

My spiritual path is grounded in nature, and my passion of late is studying tropical cyclones. This may sound strange, but I can't think of anything more spiritually-connected than observing the weather.

Hope on a pale blue dot

JusDav, backwoods, Missouri — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:35:05 GMT

If we are every to expand into the universe, the galactic society, it will have to be of our own accomplishments. for if we meet other beings by them comming to us, they will either be conquers, in which case we wont stand a snow balls chance in hell of surviving other than slaves, or they will be of great intelligence and compation, in which case they will turn away, leave us and cry. ~JusDav~

Hope on a pale blue dot

LissaJo, Atlanta, GA — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:48:36 GMT

Go Margie K! Our blue dot talks if we but listen!
The weather is a newspaper to how it feels lately.
Yuletide blessings in your direction there...
Keep your humor and wits about you! :)
Umbrellas, anyone? (nod to Sting here, LOL)

Hope on a pale blue dot

George Wenzel — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:13:17 GMT

Carl Sagan is/was my all-time favorite person! My only disappointment was that he was too easy on people who continue to babble religious/superstitious nonsense. Listen, the dinosaurs dominated the earth for 140 million years and the earth existed for 4.5 billion years before our ape species ever came into existence (about 200,000 years ago). If there is a Heaven then it must be full of saintly dinosaurs, trilobites and bacteria! For pity's sake, quit believing in things which are based on zero evidence and are simply social ideologies which have a three-fold purpose: 1)To unify a society 2)To remind the little people that they will always be little and keep them in their place 3)To give us an overblown sense of cosmic self-importance. Religion is a Human construct and the Universe doesn't even know or care that we exist. I've never seen anything that couldn't be explained by understanding the laws of nature. Trying to explain our complex Universe by postulating the existence of an even more complex creature that created it, is NO explanation at all! Where did God come from then? And why is God behaving exactly like a petty, Middle-Eastern tyrant? Isn't it interesting that people always believe exactly what their society has indoctrinated them with from childhood? There are as many beliefs as there are societies - past and present. Sure, we don't know why there is Something instead of Nothing or how life arose, but a hundred years ago we didn't know you could send messages across thousands of miles or that chimpanzees are our genetic cousins. Let's deny the religious muddle-brains and psychopaths any credibility or they'll keep us in the Dark Ages forever while they rule their multi-billion dollar empire and their priests burn our women at the stake and rape our children. Hurray for Richard Dawkins - one of the (few) "brights". Am I an Atheist? You BETCHA!

Hope on a pale blue dot

Stephanie Ashworth, Fuquay Varina, North Carolina — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:58:51 GMT

Scripture teaches us that the only unforgivable sin is doubting the power of the Holy Spirit to reconcile all relationship - not excluding, I would guess, the relationship between science and religion.

It just hasn't been fully revealed to us humans, yet.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Eric Krobath — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:51:57 GMT

May Carl return after a long trip through the galaxy of eternal hope to find us still here in the future, a more peaceful place where we may all be better off in the next age; with or without the alien presence!

Hope on a pale blue dot

FJL — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:21:56 GMT

I agree with mike we have problems we must fix before we meet any extraterrestrials. If ET's are visiting maybe the problems we currently have are what keeps tem from contanting us. Theistic or Atheistic I think we all agree that the universe is incredible.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Paul Griffin, Norcross, GA — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:29:26 GMT

There are so MANY FUN ways I could go with this discussion. The possibilities boggle the mind...heh heh heh. For instance, I could mention all those fantastic TV and radio transmissions flung far out in space over the decades; most of which if picked up by extraterrestrial intelligence, probably wouldn't inspire an intergalatic travel brochure to our neighborhood anytime soon. (It would be really embarrassing to have to apologize for the transmissions of shows like "V" and "Battlestar Galactica".....the original one, that is....not to mention the 6 o' clock news...ahem). Could mention some fun views on religion....Aztec...Mayan....Roman Catholic Church....Islam...Broadway plays in New York...take your pick. Viewpoints on the state of the world's economy....ecological nightmares brought on by "the dream team" of so many governments. If I wanted to be REALLY Devious....mention those brilliant connections between Christmas and those lovely good ol' days of ancient Rome when the festival of Saturnalia was practiced....

But nahhhh.....the very concept of an end of the year Holiday is to take a much needed break from the everyday noise. Sometimes, you need to just kick back and enjoy time with family and friends (Time itself may seem infinite as a whole, but we really only lease it...it can never be owned). Have some great conversations, enjoy some meals, drinks, whatever....

And if you have to wonder..."Is there anyone out there?? What's it all mean?....Is our world ending?...Is There Really a God out There?...Will I ever balance my checkbook?"....Those questions will hang around in 2009 as well, just waiting to be picked up, pondered and blogged about...both for and against.

Enjoy just taking a break and unplugging for a moment. Go out with friends and family. Light the fireplace. At least be thankful that Christmas is a day off from work (Unless you're in retail...but then you get Holiday Pay anyway...).

And on Christmas Day...if you find yourself reading this thread, and you have no relatives or friends coming over...it's just you and your computer...and you're back to wondering what it all means...if anything at all....then let me say just a few words to you...

Merry Christmas...Happy Holidays...there is always hope...(and you're damned good if you made it this far!!) Oh...and look up and smile every so often. You never know whom may be watching.

Cheers!! ;-)!

Hope on a pale blue dot

Gouthum K, Awareness, Earth — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:03:08 GMT

Most concepts of God come from later bastardizations and commodifications of unifying concepts. In simple terms, most people are incapable of conceiving of anything greater than themselves as anything but some anthropomorphised idea.

Even the Jesus myth comes from far older Egyptian ones. The main point is that God itself signifies the unifying consciousness which sources in YOU. Can you remember a time when you were not? Do you remember being born?

As far as you know, you are immortal. This is where the idea of God, or Gods, comes from. The idea that you are the source of all consciousness and creation. We are talking about the infinite and the absolute.

Ancient Vedanta proved Quantum Physics long ago through the contemplation of pure logic. Yet that is likely because we have burned this planet more than once. All it would take is a simple churning of Earth's crust and we would never know?

All just ideas though, please do not be hung up on anything other than "what you are." YOU are pure consciousness and I am but a reflection of your imagination.

Love to you all.
Gouthum

Hope on a pale blue dot

Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 01:49:09 GMT

Ohhh God Margie...I have a chance to go to a "solstice party" and I am not going on principle. I appreciate the changing seasons but not to that degree. Carl Sagan wouldn't have even bothered with such an idea.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Patrick, Philadelphia, PA — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:32:59 GMT

Why do science and religion have to be seperate? I am a devout Catholic and yet I firmly believe in Evolution, and all the other accepted scientific thinking. What's so wrong with the idea that the Big Bang was the tool that a supreme being used to create the universe? Or that evolution is God's photoshop, the medium that she uses to create our world. Wasn't it Einstein himself who said "Show me the thoughts of God, the rest is just details..." ?

Hope on a pale blue dot

S.A. Brown, Jefferson City, MO — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:42:57 GMT

I'd like to see more research done in the area labeled generally as 'paranormal phenomena.'

Amateurs are treading now where no one in most mainstream scientific circles desires to tread, primarily for fear of ridicule and scorn, or reproach from family and friends, especially those with staunch religious beliefs that label such things as 'evil.'

We need more focused study upon the 'non-physical' part of our reality. That which isn't seen has is own causative/effective science just as our own observable universe. Remember, the only reason we can't see it with the naked eye is because our ocular orbs are only set for seeing in a specified spectrum of light. Light that we can't see exists surely as the light that we can.

Let's spread our own 'Light of Observance, Reporting, and Sharing of the Knowledge, Unto the Light of Wisdom' with each and every one of those same Family, Friends, and Colleagues with whom we have daily contact.

This is one way to throw off the shackles of ignorance, and become truly dedicated to understanding fully our True Natures, whatever they may turn out to be.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Martin, Buford, GA — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 04:13:11 GMT

Now come on boys and girls, do you really think that God built this great big Universe and only put people on OUR little blue planet? It is a pretty impressive system He built, don't you think.
Merry Christmas!

Hope on a pale blue dot

Robert Carver, New Orleans, LA — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 04:22:16 GMT

As a Historian, the religious myths of our modern Judeo-Christian culture were all based upon older myths. Jesus evolved from previous "saviors" like Mithra & the miracle stories were re-writes of older myths. So I can confidently state that their is no valid evidence that the Christian deity exist. Does that mean I have ruled out the possibility that a "higher being" exist somewhere out in this universe or any other... of course not. I just know that the Christians are wrong, along with the Jews, Muslims, Hindu, etc.

Claiming that a belief in the supernatural is a 50-50 proposition is misleading. The default reality is that there is only the natural world and the assertion being made is that "insert god of your choice here" exist and we should believe and have faith is such a deity's existence. The burden of proof is on the party making the assertion, in this case, theists. If you claim that a supernatural being is real, bring the proof rather than just making statements based on faith. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.

My family and I will celebrate the Winter Solstice as we look forward to the longer sunny days of Spring. The Northern hemisphere experiences a "rebirth" as the seemingly dead natural world is resurrected in the new growth as the sun brings warmth and light. Hmmm, makes you wonder where those resurrection myths originated doesn't it?

Have a Merry & Safe Winter Solstice and remember Reason is The Reason for the Season.

Hope on a pale blue dot

shane henman frederick, colorado — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 05:09:49 GMT

The same people that devoutly believe in god and creationism are the same people that believed the world was flat and when that was disproven they said well the sun revolves around the earth when that was disproven they said that the galaxy revolves around our solar system and on and on and on,quit thinking so highly of yourselves!we are nothing in the grand scheme of things other than a semi aware parasite on an incredibly evolved planet!

Hope on a pale blue dot

ralph palasek — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:21:07 GMT

We believe in stories; they are useful models that work for us in so many instances that we choose to invest in them.
May All the Blessings of This Mysterious Wonder-Season be with You and Yours.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Don Knudson, Rosemount, MN — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:27:00 GMT

This is a fascinating discussion. Carl Sagan had an amazing mind and vision. I see the science vs. religion and belief vs. proof debate as a symptom of modern American culture. We have tried to separate these into two separate realms. But we don't succeed in this because humans seek an integrated world view of life. We are living in a time of fragmented cultures that lack integration and, thus, integrity.

To solve the lack of integrity science seeks a unified theory of everything that can account for everything, including our own existence. This has not been achieved but is a goal for many scientific thinkers.

Religions, on their better days, seek peace and defend some version of universal truth using theological language supported by scriptures, usually writings from antiquity. Religions, sometimes, seek to co-opt science and distort it into their own image to support or manufacture their world views and still call it science. Sometimes religions argue against science investigating an area of research that the religion claims is sacred. Rarely do religions rooted in dogma and tradition fully embrace the scientific method for fear that something of their dogma (beliefs) may be challenged. Science is threatening to those in religious authority who fear whatever might undermine the presumed claimed certainty for religious beliefs and faith.

Scientists, on the other hand, who comprehend the world through the use of the scientific method and participate in creating the sciences of physics, chemistry, biology, and ecology, are the new high priests of our world. They create the latest discoveries and solve the great mysteries. They are the ones to whom societies look for technological breakthroughs, new cancer treatments, improved medicines, and a host of other products and inventions. Most of us use these marvels as consumers but never understand or comprehend them. Scientists have created the knowledge to do marvelous and wondrous things. Many of these things are sold to us as material goods making us materialistic consumers.

The question for science is whether it can eventually give us something more than materialism. Is there anything spiritual and value laden that accompanies breakthroughs in knowledge and science? Carl Sagan as an astrophysicist certainly evoked a sense of curiosity, excitement, awe and a sense of profound humility that seemed to me deeply spiritual.

I have spent nearly 40 years as a Lutheran pastor steeped in Christian faith and the tradition of grace, mercy and love as core faith values. Good values, I must say. But I also must tell you that for me the flat earth world view in "the Bible" doesn't do much for my sense of awe. Faith rooted in scriptures of antiquity poses major issues for anyone aware of the dynamic scientific enterprise of discovery. This may surprise you, but I find the word pictures for God rooted in an ancient nomadic culture of two to four thousand years ago also don't inspire me or WOW me very much as a post agrarian human being who is now urbanized. I am presuming that these images did connect with people who lived closer to the land and to sheep. So I’m a bit jaded when it comes to being WOWed.

But when I saw for the first time the Hubble's deep field images of the faintest light from stars and galaxies populating the early universe I was awestruck. I realized that this is the first time this ancient light has revealed itself. Here is where the sense of immensity and humility is encountered, the immensity of the universe and the small reality of my singular life. These are experiences that one would describe as amazing, awe inspiring, spiritual.

The God imagined in Western religions is small compared to what Hubble has revealed to us in this season of our human development. And this is the crisis for traditional religious communities. We are attached to old world views and sacred images and we have not absorbed nor understand the true wonders and amazing weird discoveries revealed in astronomy, physics, life sciences and the like. The recently uncovered genomic research into understanding what replicates living creatures is just now revealing much. The scientific method is unlocking the secrets of life in a way never before imagined. Some traditional religions are reacting to this with fear and condemnation. Such a stance condemns religion to the role of being a negative voice holding back advances in medicine. It is rare for religions to promote advances in science.

I am hoping and recommending in this season that more of us who identify as religious would try to learn and understand what are the theories and discoveries of science so that we can discover a new sense of awe and wonder. In addition, I think it is good that we question religious claims and theologies espoused that too often lead to persecution, condemnation, threats of damnation against minorities, non believers, etc. Such beliefs become like viruses that contaminate and justify horrific deeds against the ecosystem as well as all humanity. Radical religious hatred married, for example, to justification for use of a nuclear bomb to create Armageddon to bring Jesus back is my worst nightmare. Unfortunately humans can use their religion and technology to create hell. We all must be wary of this. The good news is that we still are living and that is the basis for hope.

Along with Carl Sagan, seeing earth as the small blue dot is amazing. That we exist is amazing. That life flourishes is amazing. That this conversation happens is astounding. We have the capacity to wonder, investigate, test, learn, unlearn, reflect, question and believe. It's amazing that we have the capacity to be amazed.

Remember, most of the universe is hostile to life. The "small blue dot" is a very small niche in the universe where life grew up over millions of years. And we who are part of that life have now the capacity for self awareness and awareness of others. WOW! It's a wonder that we exist! I know that sometimes we wish we didn't exist when disaster strikes. Yet here we are, still breathing, still thinking, still wondering, still hoping.

Thank you Carl Sagan for helping us to see how small and insignificant we are on the pale blue dot! That's an image worth meditating upon.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Earl Sunnarborg, Hibbing, MN — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:38:20 GMT

It seems that many of the comments are akin to two ants looking into a computer and arguing about how it works. People create a god in their own image and then reject him because he is too small. God says, "I am." That is beyond human comprehension just as is any answer to the question, "Where did the particle come from that exploded?" I heard with my own ears Carl Sagan say on the Johnny Carson Show that the answer to that question will be forever beyond science. Faith is NOT anti-intellectual; faith begins where intelligence ends. Most people who reject Christ have not studied the scriptures and considered the astronomical odds that anyone could walk on the stage of life and fulfill the prophecies that He did. The rebellious nature of man is easily tricked into believing the lie that God does not exist. The scripture teach us that one day EVERY knee shall bow and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Christmas happens to be the arbritrary time of the year that we celebrate the coming of the Messiah which means God with us. May His spirit fill your heart and mind in a special way during this Christmas season. If the root meaning of 'science' is 'to know' there is no higher calling than to know Jesus personally as one's Lord and Saviour. Merry Christmas.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Carol Nutter; Portland, OR — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:54:06 GMT

Science excludes not religion.
Faith excludes not fact.
Knowledge and belief go hand in hand.
My religion teaches me that.
Disdain not what you don't understand.
Criticize not those who do.
Dogmatic crusaders of five-sense "science,"
find truth is my plea to you.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Beau, Martinsburg WV — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:45:00 GMT

I mean for aliens it's kind of easy to prove that there are other beings out there. Our known Universe goes on for infinite, which means there is an endless number of chances for another planet to be exacly like ours. Infinite is a pretty big number ;-). As for religion, who cares, i'm atheist, i celebrate christmas. Other people have different believes and that is great just let them have them, i hate hearing christians trying to convert atheist or people of other faith and i also hate hearing atheist say "take god out of the pledge" Seriously both of you shut up and go see a movie together. Happy Holidays and may FSM bless you ;-)

Hope on a pale blue dot

Jym Allyn — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:49:58 GMT

And God said to Moses, “You cannot see MY face, but I will make all MY goodness pass before you.”
– Exodus 33:19

The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist" says God, "For proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing.” "BUT," says Man, "The Babel Fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It proves you exist, so therefore you don't. QED.” “ Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that." And promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. "Ooh, that was easy" says Man and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets killed at the next zebra crossing.
– Douglas Adams “The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy”

“Who is Einstein to tell The Lord what to do?”
– Niels Bohr

“This statement is false.”
– Ultimate Logic Bomb

We often take some things for granted to point that we fail to realize how fundamental they are. The instinct for survival is so embedded in the human psyche that we frequently fail to realize that our desire to understand and control the world around is what defines us as a species and what defines us as human. In pursuing that understanding our perception of causality has evolved over the last five thousand years into what may seem to be diametrically opposed concepts we now call Religion and Science. As a result of that conflict, our concept of what we call “God” seems now to be caught in a contradiction between the “Faith” of Religion and the “Logic” of Science. ...

[ALAN ADDS: This is a long copy-and-paste of a document that is available on the Web. I'm not opposed to long comments (although I'd worry about the length of this one even if it were written as an original comment). However, if you're going to repost something, please link to the document instead. Here's the document that's being quoted (a Word file):]

http://chemical-recruiter.com/therealgod/TheMetaphorofGod-2008-06-22.doc

Hope on a pale blue dot

Ixchel, Fort Collins, CO — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:24:49 GMT

For those of us with Seasonal Affective Disorder, Solstice is truly something worth celebrating. Whether you are glad to celebrate the birth of the son, the return of the sun, or any other light celebrating holiday - knowing that this is the shortest day of the year and that the N Hemisphere will soon have longer days makes me glad to light a candle in the darkness. You can believe what you want to - it's your right - but for me, I'll take the sun and solar system. I see it and I know it affects me. I can't say that for most dogmatic systems of belief.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Dean Wankel, Jacksonville, IL — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:26:56 GMT

My Dad was a Baptist Minister for more than 50 years before passing away. Needless to say I am rooted in the religious aspect of this thread. How and when will science prove or disprove God is the real deal. It will never happen due to scientists working with the flavor of the day and changing the way they look at things. Science is not exact. It is far from it. Lots of Einstiens's theories have been disproven and he was a great scientist who allowed us to enter into another change in scientific thought. Sagan did the same thing. Guess what people, Sagan is today's flavor. Who will be the next flavor for the "scientific investigating" of life and where we came from.
Science hasn't figured out how all the oil formed from dinosaur carcasses that got stuck in the mud. Has anyone really figured out how life was formed from inert, dead objects? The big bang theory sounds almost feasible, but where did the matter come from to have this "big bang".
Come on people, there had to be a source of power to allow the explosion that caused the energy to happen. Gee, that sounds like an all powerful Being. GOD!!! The Bible says a day is as 10,000 years and 10,000 years is as a day. So if the universe is 4.5 billion years old give or take a few million years, then it could have been formed as long ago as a day ago or trillions of years ago according to the Bible.
My Dad always said: "If there isn't a God, then I am a better person for living my life as there is God." I could go on and on about his thread, and I am sure there will lots of comments on what I said is wrong because it doesn't suit someone else's ideology. Hopefully I have stirred a little bit of curiosity in someone to find out the real truth. Don't get me wrong, if there wasn't science then we would have life as we know it. Religion and science can coexist if both sides could just get along. We would be a better people if this would happen. Have a safe and happy holiday season. Merry CHRISTmas!

Hope on a pale blue dot

Andy Womack — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:07:07 GMT

Maybe something is out there that can't be explained by natural, logical causes.

I doubt it.

If God does not exist, then why do so many belive?

If so many beleive, then why don't I?

Hope on a pale blue dot

Louise, Wayne, PA — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:21:31 GMT

There is no conflict between good science & true religion. Each is an approach to Truth. It is imperative to keep in mind that we are finite beings & will never emcompass in our minds the whole truth, even though we will live through eternity. Therein lies the joy of both science & religion: an eternal life of knowing God better & better; of learning more about both scientific, philosophical & spiritual truths. It is the journey that fulfills our human nature.

Hope on a pale blue dot

MJ — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:37:41 GMT

Even it there was a god, why would he be so bored as to create a universe just to look at? Bored enough to play games with the human race? I cannot belive in a god, because if he were real, I would have to hate him for his evil.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Jim Jamison, Peru, Iowa — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:55:16 GMT

Science? Religion? Both have one very big thing in common------ They are man's search for the truth! Truth can only be found with an open mind. To those who believe that your answers are right and others are wrong, lighten up and open your minds! The truth is everywhere for those open enough to search for it

Hope on a pale blue dot

Guillermo P, CD Juarez, Chihuahua — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:07:51 GMT

Hello all. Good thing that time doesn't exist. If you can understand that, than you can understand that God does exist, but we don't have even the faintest of what God is really about. Imagine an atom or a molecule or a particle of such trying to understand just what that particle is a part of, what is its function, and what created it. We don't have a clue.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Gerald Spencer — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:10:41 GMT

About this time, 2000 years ago, a young Jewish boy was becoming a man. His message is this: "We are not only sons of God but we ALL are God. We are all we have for each other so, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Love one another as I have loved you." The Jesus message was that and no more. God became man to tell us that all the good that will come from God comes from within us. As in the Eden message, we are the caretakers of this world and we are the caretakers of our brothers and sisters. As we comtemplate our status as that "mote of dust in a ray of sunlight" as "a mote in God's eye" we should know that if we do not give God's love to each other, He will not give it to us. Think how every good deed you did, for every help you gave someone, out of spontaneity, out of pure immediate kindness, think and know THAT was the God in you acting on your fellow man. God bless you and rest you, Carl Sagan.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Jon One — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:21:31 GMT

Don Knudson, Earl Sunnarborg, Carol Nutter: Excellent posts -- reinforcing my faith that there is a voice of true reason among mankind's chaotic thrashings enroute to ultimate Life or Death.

Science and religion are not separate. Scientists understand the contradiction of excluding possibilities for convenience. God is only impossible for those who hate the idea of God. Think bigger than mankind. Seek God. CHOOSE LIFE!!!

Hope on a pale blue dot

DW Kendall, Phoenix,AZ — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:21:48 GMT

Thank u Don Knudson. 4 explaining your non accusing astronomical view of Don Knudsons world.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Sara Johnston, Lynden, WA — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:11:55 GMT

To Paul in Norcross, GA: Thanks for one of the most sane and kind posts I have ever seen on a site like this. Merry Christmas to you, too...in a non-denominational courteous greeting sort of way. :)

We cant' know in this life what is "Truth" and what is opinion. But, we can know what is true in each moment, and lovingkindness trumps being RIGHT. I don't think science and faith have to be mutually exclusive. No matter what else, I'm sure we can all believe this beautiful planet is awe-inspiring, and I have faith that science can help to solve some of the problems it has created (like CFC's and the Industrial Revolution, for example).

Whether mankind's thirst for knowledge is instinct or god-given, I celebrate it every day!

Hope on a pale blue dot

Kemp Stephens — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:26:17 GMT

I think Carl Sagan was a great man and I admired his pursuit of truth through science. Religeous people should realize and give credit to "true scientists", who through hard, sincere work are slowly breaking down the silly superstitions that have controlled Man through the ages. However, a "true" scientist will also admit that there are vast limits to their knowledge and not dismiss so cavalierly a faith in a Supreme Designer....and unfortunately I think Carl Sagan even though able to experience this Creation more closely than most of us, was unwilling to admit that.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Bette, Mojave Desert, CA — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 21:56:09 GMT

In the beginning, consciousness, digital consciousness.

All That Is~~
what is?~~
Consciousness.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:29:30 GMT

I find it totally funny that the people here espoucing religion and God as a response to Carl Sagan don't realize that Sagan was extremely careful not to include religion and God in his Cosmos. I would have to say that Sagan was never involved with religion which makes him atheist. However he did maintain a respect for what religion attempts to do without involking his own personal belief.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:32:55 GMT

The only thing good about the winter solstice is the fact that the sun begins it's labourious climb into the sky. Too bad the northern latitudes won't see any real benefit until into February.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Frank Glover, Rochester, NY — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 23:39:50 GMT

"Everyone has faith in a god, whether it be Christ, Buddha or themselves. I hope you pick the right one."

First, no, not everyone does. (and that's okay)

Second, logically it would indeed seem that they can't all be right, and it may be that none of them are.

Or maybe everyone *is* right, their particular deity(ies) exist and it's only atheists and monotheists that are wrong.

That simple logic is why I consider myself an agnostic, and get on with my life, knowing that some things are logically provable/disprovable and some aren't. Science only works with the ones that are. The rest is philosophy and religion.

And wisdom, perhaps, is knowing the difference.

How are you (or I) treating your fellow man? That's what really matters, not the route by which you come to that question.

And...

"Don't worry about man destroying the world Jesus (The Word) Made the world and only he will destroy it."

Then why do we have free will, if not to live with the consequences, good and bad, of our choices and actions? I prefer not to take the chance on divine intervention coming over the hill (whose solution might be like that in the new 'The Day the Earth Stood Still.' If you're devout and literal enough to believe in a Great Flood, then you know there's a precedent for wiping away the source of the planet's problems. I'm reminded of the poster that read; "Jesus is coming, and boy, is he pissed!"), and try to preserve Earth to begin with.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Reverend Fred — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:15:02 GMT

For all the scientists out there and for all the students who have a hard time convincing people regarding the truth of the Bible, here's something that shows God's awesome creation and that He is still in control.

Did you know what the space program had been calling "myth" in the Bible is busy proving it to be true?

Mr. Harold Hill, President of the Curtis Engine Company in Baltimore, Maryland and a consultant in the space program, relates the following development. "I think one of the most amazing things that God has done for us today happened recently to our astronauts and space scientists at Green Belt, Maryland. They were checking out where the positions of the sun, moon and planets would be 100 years and 1,000 years from now. We have to know this so we won't end up a satellite and have it bump into something later on in its orbits. We have to lay out the orbits in terms of the life of the satellite and where the planets will be so the whole thing will not bog down.

They ran the computer measurement back and forth over the centuries, and it came to a halt. The computer stopped and put up a red signal, which meant that there was something wrong with either the information fed into it or with the results as compared to the standards. They called in the service department to check it out and they said, 'What's wrong?' Well, they found there is a day missing in space in elapsed time.

They scratched their heads and tore their hair. There was no answer." Finally a Christian man on the team said, 'You know, one time in Sunday School we talked about the sun standing still.' While they didn't believe him, they didn't have an answer either, so they said, 'Show us.' He got a Bible and went to the book of Joshua where they found a pretty ridiculous statement for any one with 'common sense.' There they found the Lord saying to Joshua, 'Fear them not, I have delivered them into thy hand; there shall not a man of them stand before thee.' "Joshua was concerned because he was surrounded by the enemy, and if darkness fell, they would overpower him. So Joshua asked the Lord to make the sun stand still! That's right…'The sun stood still and the moon stayed and lasted not to go down about a whole day!' (Joshua 10:12-13)

The astronauts and scientists said, 'There is the missing day!' They checked the computers going back into the time it was written and found it was close but not close enough. The elapsed time that was missing back in Joshua's day was 23 hours and 20 minutes ... not a whole day. "They re-read the Bible and there it was 'about (approximately) a day.' These little words in the Bible are important, but they were still in trouble because if you cannot account for 40 minutes, you'll still be in trouble 1000 years from now. Forty minutes had to be found because it can be multiplied many times over in orbits.
As the Christian employee thought about it, he remembered somewhere in the Bible where it said the sun went BACKWARDS. The scientists told him he was out of his mind, but they got out the Book and read these words in 2 Kings that told of the following story: 'Hezekiah, on his death bed, was visited by the prophet Isaiah who told him that he was not going to die. Hezekiah asked for a sign as proof. Isaiah said, 'Do you want the sun to go ahead 10 degrees?' Hezekiah said. 'It is nothing for the sun to go ahead 10 degrees, but let the shadow return backward 10 degrees.' Isaiah spoke to the Lord and the Lord brought the sun ten degrees BACKWARD! "Ten degrees is exactly 40 minutes!

Twenty-three hours and 20 minutes in Joshua, plus 40 minutes in 2 Kings make the missing day in the universe!” Isn't it amazing?

References: Joshua 10:8 and 12, 13 and 2 Kings 20:9-11.

Hope on a pale blue dot

linda jones norland topeka ks. — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:19:41 GMT

If it were not for the wonderful Being we all pray to and that gave us superb minds we wouldn't even be talking about science!!!!!!!!!

Hope on a pale blue dot

thomas hill — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 00:20:43 GMT

all cultures seem to have some ritual associated with the passage of time. if we have no guide to aspire to then why try? i think it's called evolution. if we are god's chosen then it stands to reason we must change for the better over time. not science or religion. just because. suffer the children for such is the kingdom of heavon.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Eric, Citizen of Earth — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 01:24:05 GMT

I have always and always will admire Carl Sagan for his writings and lectures which were a major part of the reason I pursued an education in the sciences. So I will keep my comment short and just say this...
Nature is always beautiful why not strive to understand and explain it, which is best done in the language of science. God has no place in that because god can never and will never be proved or disproved that is the nature of a god so leave people to their own beliefs and let science press on with the good work of making our short times on the earth better and a little more interesting.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Mark, Anna, Tx — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 01:25:28 GMT

HBO did an excellent series called Rome. It's kind of amusing to watch them make offers and prayers to the untold number of gods they worshiped. But you know, THEY truly believed in it.

As for ET's - good grief! If they have any brains at all, they packed up within an hour of landing and made their way right on out of this self-made disaster. Fighting. Killing. Stealing. Cheating. Lieing. I suppose those special human traits would provide them all the reason they need for annihilation!

I'll go with a line from an old Clint Black tune:

I sure hope there is intelligent life in space cuz we've sure been cheated here on Earth.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 02:39:29 GMT

Dean Wankel (12/21, 1026) talked about the changing science as the flavor of the day. He’s absolutely right. There was vanilla, someone added cocoa to it and we got chocolate, then someone through in marshmallows to give us Rocky Road. Almost without exception, and certainly in the mainstream sciences, the new “flavor” is just a reflection of the deeper understanding that we got from yesterday’s.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Helena Handbasket. Midfield, USA — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:04:37 GMT

Atheists and agnostics do really stupid things like try to get people to take down their Christmas trees, Mangers, Menorahs and whatever Muslims put up to celebrate their holidays (Ak-47's?).

But Atheists rarely lob rockets at your neighborhood because some group of guys who lived a couple thousand years ago inspired folks to write things about their lives that make other folks lob rockets at your neighborhood.

I think Sagan would read all the sudden religion on this blog, remove his glasses, rub his eyes and say something artfully profound. Wouldn't he?

Hope on a pale blue dot

Letitica, Australia — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:25:04 GMT

uh yeah, the December solstice may be when YOUR world is darkest, but newsflash- it's summer in the Southern Hemisphere.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Dennis Nendza, Tucson, AZ — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:26:22 GMT

Alan, thanks for a great topic with so many possibilities for discussion. It is interesting to think back to when Carl Sagan presented his Cosmos series. Astronomers I knew poo-pooed it as popular astronomy for the masses. They mused that it didn't have enough scientific rigor and that he wasn't a real astronomer. Well, thanks to creative scientists such as Sagan who were endowed with and used their capacity as interpreters of what seems arcane we have a larger portion of the public thirsting after explanations of scientific discovery. This popularizing of a scientific endeavor is likely to have paid dividends in higher levels of funding for science than would be granted otherwise. Since Cosmos, other scientists seem to have realized that a dialog with the public, who pays many of the bills, is essential.

Concerning religion and science: It seems to be a one-way street for criticism. Religion is frequently criticizing or trying to impose limits on science. I don't recall science placing limitations on religion. Religion and science can exist in a mind that is open and constantly evolving with new information. Minds closed off, in effect, hundreds of years ago, can not cope with the revelations since that time that science has produced. It is downright scary to see individuals charged with administrating a public office talk of "end times", creationism and curbs on scientific inquiry with reference to their religious leanings. More disturbing is the number of voters similarly inclined.

Concerning the soul and what is beyond our current level of understanding: Why ascribe a god or religious quality to phenomena we do not understand or may never understand? The idea of a soul may come up frequently in religious discussion, but why must the concept of a soul imply a god? It may just be another phenomenon we haven't come to understand. Ancients didn't know better in many areas. We've come to know a great deal and appreciate that we have much more to understand. Classically practiced religion will not contribute to that growth in understanding.

Several comments written earlier indicate that others, the religiously inclined and disinclined, have experienced the awe that scientific inquiry can cause. From that experience we ask ourselves even more questions about our place in such a vast universe and one so detailed at the atomic and sub-atomic level. To sit back and think we have all the answers in a tidy package is to shrivel and die.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Elistra — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:34:38 GMT

I'm one of those ones who just finished celebrating the Solstice. :)

Looking over the comments, some people would do well to remember that not all people of faith are part of organized religion, nor are they necessarily hostile to science. :P

Hope on a pale blue dot

Bob A, Leominster MA — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 03:44:52 GMT

Around 30 years ago, there was a disussion in the Astro&Aero department at MIT about TV signals reaching extraterrestrials. Someone there (K. Eric Drexler? Gerard O'Neill? I forget...) did a little math and came to the conclusion that the first television signals with enough power to reach distant galaxies consisted of...... Drum roll here......

Milton Berle's "Uncle Miltie" character.

It was agreed by all present, that following their 'first impression' of our planet, it would probably be quite a while before we got any visits from ET....

-bob

Hope on a pale blue dot

David, Houston,Tx — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 04:08:22 GMT

I didnt read the whole article. Or many of the comments. But i did read some. Some about religion. Some about science. I belive in god. I do not belive in religion. I really came to say this. There is a movie called Contact. In this movie the scientist tells the man of religion that she does not belive in god. He asks her why. She says she only belives in things she can prove. He then asks her if she loved her father. She says that she did. With all of her heart. And that she has never stopped loving him. The man of religion asks her to prove it. This has always stuck with me. Peace be with you all.

Hope on a pale blue dot

John Doe, Colorado — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 04:20:48 GMT

This time of year always reminds me how small-minded so many people still are. Particularly at the suggested nexus of science and religion. Let me explain my point.

In 1965, Manucur Olson wrote a book called The Logic of Collective Action. He argued that aggregation of individuals, acting for their own benefit, will produce results are not beneficial for the group as a whole. One of the situations in which he said thiswould not happen, though, was in small groups. In these small groups, individuals can observe each others' behavior and exert pressure on each other to take actions that end up benefitting everyone.

But this solution was not unique, and in fact had already been discovered thousands of years before. To make the idea translate to large groups, though, you had to convince everyone that there was this all-powerful father figure watching that would punish you if you behaved badly. In that sense, then, inventing religion was a brilliant solution to a tragic problem of collective action.

But what has religion brought us these days? Division? Hate? Disrespect for anyone who doesn't believe in the faith you believe in? Sure, any religion by itself would be collectively better if everyone followed it than all these different competing interpretations, but the competition in ignorance of the logic leads ultimately to tragedy.

I, for one, don't feel the need to make Pascal's wager. I don't think that my life will have been better for living as if there is a god because that is ignorance of the basic point. And beside, which god, or more importantly, which interpretation of what god wants of us, should I live by? I'll tell you what, my life will be better if I live my life secure in the knowledge that doing the right thing will ultimately benefit me, too. You do the right thing, and you inspire the people around you.

But I guess that begs the question, what is the right thing? I can't trust that religion will tell me, since any one I choose will ultimately contradict itself as much as it contradicts other religions and interpretations - you pick and choose, Prop 8 the musical, anyone? I think the only sane and logical choice is to live by the only two good rules I ever learned when I ent to church as a kid: 1) Do unto others as you would have others to unto you; 2) Love one another. When you care how your behavior impacts other people as much as you care about how your behavior benefits you, then you don't need god: that heaven you seek will be made here on earth.

Oh, and there is one other thing. Why is it that religious nuts - yes, nuts - insist that science prove that there IS NOT a god when they are equally incapable of proving that there IS a god? That sounds like either hubris, delusion, or both. Just to emphasize my point, the proposition "there is a god" ultimately can't be proved or disproved, that's why it's called faith. With that said, pointing back to the nuts again, it's mean to look down on someone for not believing something that can't be proved.

Hope on a pale blue dot

James Card, Lakeside, CA — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:01:16 GMT

I feel the reason most people reject accepting the fact there is a God and He came to redeem us, is due to the simple fact that mankind is frightened to look inwardly and actually see how sinful we all truly are.
Let me give some of the ones that don't 'believe' something to chew on. Blaise Pascal put it quite bluntly: "If there is no God, and you bet your life there is, you've lost nothing. But if there is a God, and you bet your life there isn't, you've made the greatest mistake imaginable."

Keep Christ in Christmas! Merry Christmas.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Jack Futerman, Toronto, Ontario, Canada — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:06:42 GMT

Even if God existed she would not expect to be prayed to. God would be the perfect parent and as such would be unwilling to have her children demean themselves by pressing their hands together in supplication for some service she might render. If there truly is a God then such a God would leave no finger prints. Such a GOD WOULD BE TOO CLEVER to let her children care more about her than each other. The only proof that a Creator might exist has to do with the weight of hydrogen. A little less or a little more than nothing would exist. But if you accept that we live in a "bouncing Universe" than there are infinite chances to get the weight of hydrogen just right. Undeniably the Universe could not exist unless it was founded on logical rules. The rules themselves denote rationality or a rule maker. Nothing in them requires us to ascribe to dogma or a creed. The study of science is the highest form of worship. It pays true homage to the rule maker. She has written the ultimate computer program and just let it run. Science's functions is to understand the majesty of that amazing program.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Luis Villanueva, Pflugerville, Texas — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:58:59 GMT

God created science in order for us to find the way to HIM, the creator of everything, the absolute!
I hope that everybody will ignore their differences and be a part of this wonderful winter solstice.

Have a safe Christmas everybody.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Patti, Perth, Western Australia — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 09:03:26 GMT

For those who believe religion causes dissension - more people have been killed or had atrocities committed against them in the 20th century by non religions fanatics such as Pol Pot, Adolph Hitler, Idi Amin, Joseph Stalin, Emperor Hirohito of Japan etc than have ever been killed because of religion.
We must remember that there can only be one Truth, and it is a mystery that has been revealed by God’s mercy and grace to millions in the world. The Bible says ‘The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.’
God has revealed himself to all humanity, and we have chosen to reject him. There will be no excuse for that. He does exist, He is in control of everything, He is not a woman and we will all be accountable to Him. In love for my fellow human I would urge people to do the research yourself. Make an informed decision. Don’t just listen to those who would tell you what you would prefer to hear. Humbly ask God to reveal himself to you and he will if you are sincere. All he wants is for you to walk with Him and be in relationship with Him. There is nothing weird about it. As for science, God created it as well. No surprises there.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Steve Howell — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:47:21 GMT

You know, it all comes down to this : it doesn't matter one whit what we believe or not. Evolution, God, seeds from outer space,whatever. If you stop and look at the big picture, we all, ultimately, still come from the same place.

Hope on a pale blue dot

james cole, alexandria, va — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 15:39:59 GMT

I love that we as a whole on this planet celebrate Christmas in Dec. when Jesus was born in the summer June/July time frame lol its comical

Hope on a pale blue dot

OneVoice, Frederick MD — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:28:27 GMT

We lost Majel Barrett Roddenberry this year too. She and her husband also did much to popularize science and enlighten our conciousness about our pale little blue dot. Whatever religion or faith you have, please take a moment to think about Majel and Gene too.

Merry X-mas

Hope on a pale blue dot

Paul Hinkle — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 20:33:05 GMT

I have noticed, in my short time on this earth. That mankind is always looking towards the next great calamity, to shake the very foundations of our faith and well being. We are always troubled by these things that is always looming in the mist; weather it be a great war, natural disaster, or divine destruction and restitution. For those who look to science to prove their beliefs or fears of distruction; they will be left wanting, and have misconstrued the point and purpose of scientific progress. Science is not a great prophet or religious institution. It is simply the manifestation of the curiosity of the human spirit. The question of god and morals are not in the realm of science. Science is the study of our environment and how we are able to adapt and manipulate things to better help us survive. The idea that god does or does not exist has no bearing on the progress of human knowledge. God is an idea of faith and shouldn't need to be proven, but is based on you ideologies and perspective. Since I can not view things from your point of view and ideology, I cannot scientifically prove or disprove them.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Fred — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 23:22:34 GMT

Aren't the laws of science temporal and open to the changes necessitated by new information? If so, then we have universes yet to discover. If not, then the world is flat.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Jaba D. Hut — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:05:36 GMT

...the universe wastes nothing...change is the only constant...seek and you will find!

Hope on a pale blue dot

Joe Strout, Fort Collins, CO — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 05:26:42 GMT

The puzzling thing to me about Carl Sagan is this: here we have a tremendously intelligent, educated person, with no religious hang-ups, and yet he made no attempt to preserve his life beyond what current medicine could do for him -- that is, he didn't make use of cryonics. Similar bafflement applies to Isaac Asimov, and a number of other forward-thinking people who, quite frankly, should have known better than to simply allow their bodies to rot or burn.

Of course, he wasn't a biologist and may have held the common misbelief that cryonics is hopeless. But from reading his books, I have the clear impression that he tried to look at things clearly and objectively, and avoid holding common beliefs just because they are common. And surely he would have liked to have seen the day when we do either contact aliens, or learn why there aren't any. The world lost a luminary, and it's all the more tragic to think that this might have been prevented.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Independent Voter, San Jose, CA — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:43:43 GMT

Please, please, please, never again post such nonsense in a science oriented blog.

Hope on a pale blue dot

d. savage liberty, nc — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 20:32:08 GMT

the 66 years i have been on this great earth has taught me that there is positively a creator. a science mag i was reading about 25 years ago and still today had info about what keeps us humans together and not be blown off this wonderfull pale blue dot. this scientist said that the atomic breakdown of our physical make-up much like all carbon based creatures has three parts. these parts if they could be shorted out like crossing a positive to negative termanil on a battery should eventually destroy itself. yet according to the scientist we are crossed or shorted out in all three directions all the time and still don,t blow up. his reply, GOD,S glue keeps us together. now what more could you need to believe??? hey, GOD bless ALL happt holidays DS liberty, nc

Hope on a pale blue dot

Denny, Florida — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:31:56 GMT

Proof of one (or more) supreme beings? We ARE the proof. I would find it almost impossible to believe that life exists, if I wasn't part of it. The leap to believe in self-aware/intelligent life is even more difficult to imagine. As a scientist for more than four decades, I submit that if we, the trillions of lifeforms on this planet, are proof that life exists, then we are circumstantial proof that far more developed lifeforms exist. Perhaps evolved to an unimaginable level (for us) because they started on their journey billions of years before we did, were much more caring/benign toward each other and the universe we all share, and as a result have the ability to create, nurture, protect, etc. lower lifeforms. By our definitions, this entity(ies) would be considered God(s). And yet they would be an integral part of what we consider to be science.

I therefore find it humorous to think that we set parameters for what is proof of what is real, when we are barely self-aware (only for thousands of years). Imagine a living being that does not kill others of its own kind for power, possessions, etc. and does not destroy its own supply of resources, insuring its survival. Only then should it be considered "intelligent" and "civilized." If we (or some other species) becomes true examples of these terms, they will be on their way to an understanding what we cannot yet comprehend. Then, maybe, these inhabitants of our world would also be able to prove to themselves that there is an even greater presence in this universe that exists within the rules of scientific understanding and yet is representative of the self-awareness and capabilitiies of all that exist in what we call the universe.

Many of the comments displayed here about the certainties of the past which have since been disproven or modified are the clues that we are far from capable of decifering the whole story. Our arrogance, fueled by the fact that we have not evolved to a point where we can free ourselves of the paradigms that "guide us," makes us incapable of solving the mystery.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Frank Glover, Rochester, NY — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:44:22 GMT

Joe, I agree, though in Asimov's case he had overpopulation concerns (personally, I doubt that more than a thousand or so people will ever be cryonically suspended, and even if I'm off by a factor of 10, that's hardly going to make a sudden baby-like population 'boom' in the future, even if all of them can be successfully revived, and at once.), and resource consumption concerns (of course, liquid nitrogen is an inexpensive substance that naturally returns to the atmosphere when it evaporates, is produced in large quantities for industrial purposes [cryonics providers are a bare sliver of that market and is hardly a Manhattan or Apollo size project])

I remember being somewhat saddened when reading an article of his in Penthouse magazine in the late 1970's wherein he laid out his arguments against personally being suspended, including doubts that one could be successfully restored, but that he didn't want it, even if he were *sure* it would work. As he also had no belief in an afterlife, the last line stuck out in my mind; "As for me, I prefer oblivion."

What can you say?

Hope on a pale blue dot

David Morris Emu Plains NSW Australia — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:24:15 GMT

Mr Sagan is one of many voices. Does it really matter?
If you are a evolutionist, its the survival of the fittest.We are told cockroaches will inherit the earth.
If you are a creationist,God is in control, and in Him we trust, and the meek will inherit the earth.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:37:50 GMT

David Morris...yep those cockroaches are pretty meek.

Hope on a pale blue dot

mark harris — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 18:24:10 GMT

I can't say that that tribute to Carl's "Pale Blue Dot" is my favorite YouTube vid. It's so fictionalized, so consumerist, so darn Hollwood. Aren't there real-life examples to go along with the words of Sagan?

If you search Youtube for PALE BLUE DOT and then sort by ratings, you get better Pale Blue Dot tributes than the one offered by the author.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Jon One — Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:36:09 GMT

Thomas Ashby,
Lol, meek cockroaches?!? You need to visit a trailer park in Georgia or a dormitory in Texas. Cockroaches have already "inherited" those parts of the earth and are anything but meek.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Manuel Zapata, Laredo,Texas — Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:01:42 GMT

I have a question and I dont know where to ask it. If the Bible tells about the creation of the Earth and its inhabitants why are the dinosaurs not mentioned? The dinosaur fossils are proof they existed yet where do they fit in the Bible? One more question if I may. If God exists, and many people say he does, where is he from? If he is not from Earth he must be extraterrestrial. If he is extraterrestrial then do "aliens" exist? Please forgive if these questions appear silly but I just would like some kind of answer. Thanks

Hope on a pale blue dot

Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 03:39:53 GMT

Manual..there is nothing silly about your questions. The only silliness would be if someone actually gives you an answer ! Now "behemoth" is mentioned in the book of Job and there are people out there deluded enough that will say this is a description of dinosaur in the bible. And that it lived with people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behemoth

As for God and aliens? Purely fantastical.

Hope on a pale blue dot

Kerry Griffin Leesburg va — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:59:02 GMT

Dean wankel remember this Christians have a closed up Bible meaning God said that the anyone changing one word of scripture word be punished so the fact that a Scientist is taught that if his or her theorys prove to be incorrect they have to in good scientic manner dismiss them as false Religions dont do this they will stick to these ancient theorys regardless what is the truth Do you really believe this Universe that is 14 billion years old was created for 2 people who wouldnt listen to the Supreme Diety who made them. the earth is 4.6 billion years old and can be proven to be so anyway look at the nearest star alpha centari which is 275.000 AUs from here 4 light years an AU is 93 million miles the distance from here to the sun and there are around 200 to 300 billion stars in the milky way Galaxy and then on top of that maybe a trillion Galaxys!!!