To hide a hunter

David — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:51:37 GMT

I think that people who get off on killing animals are pretty sick. And to use technology to help them is truly an evil waste of a good mind. How about using tech to make the world a better place, instead of a bloodier one?

To hide a hunter

Rob Ogden,UT — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:24:18 GMT

Well, you should study your history, and world as it is now, because everybody eats, and it comes from somewhere. I think narrowmindedness is the issue here

To hide a hunter

Jon — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:45:18 GMT

Well I think the Camo technology is truly amazing!!! At first I couldn't even see the Hunter, it took me a second. I think that Hunting is a Good, to a point. For instance, Over population can be a real pain in the A@@! Not all hunting is necessary, I agree. But it is In our DNA. We would not be here if it wasn't for hunters!!!

To hide a hunter

Rob — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:50:26 GMT

David would probably have us all eat Soylent green. Seriously most people who hunt eat the meat or sell it to others to be processed and eaten.

To hide a hunter

Donald Davis — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:11:49 GMT

I Love animals too, they are delicious!
I don't hunt them, I just eat them.

To hide a hunter

Santa Monica,CA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:18:51 GMT

Its kind of cool but sucks that they're using this technology to kill animals :[.

To hide a hunter

Mike Krause — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:23:05 GMT

Hunting and predation are the way wild animal populations are managed. Mans expansion into wildlife habitat and the loss of natural predators have concentrated wildlife populations and increased disease and conflicts with people.
Hunters provide more money for improved habitat and protection of wildlife than any segment of the population.
Get outside and experience these things for yourself. If you do not eat wild game take a camera. The knowledge and thrill of wild places and things will allow you to have an informed basis for your opinion.

To hide a hunter

Paul, Michigan — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:23:45 GMT

There is a huge difference in killing an animal to eat and killing one as a sport.

To hide a hunter

Smokey, in SC — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:31:06 GMT

RE- David,

Someday, there may come a time when you cannot depend on grocery stores, distribution chains, gas stations, cellular networks, or even electricity. Hopefully, it would only be for a short time, and far in the future. But in any case, people like you will be the first to go.

To hide a hunter

Barney — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:36:00 GMT

Perhaps we should scrutinize the intentions of tigers and leopards as well...what were they thinking? Their millions of years of evolution have made them invisable to their prey. How cruel!!!

To hide a hunter

Deer Hunter — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:36:51 GMT

Everything is living including that salad you eat for dinner. Just cause you don't think it's cute does not mean it is not alive. Do you live in a house? Then you are also part of the problem! We need to hunt deer - population control - because you took their land and made it your home and drove them out!

To hide a hunter

Joan Jacobs — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:37:07 GMT

I'm with you David, and so is most of the normal world.

To hide a hunter

Sean, Fredericksburg, VA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:39:55 GMT

David....ever known of anyone that hit a deer with their car? There are plenty, some seriously injured, or yes, even killed. In areas that are overpopulated with deer those deer move excessively in search of food or water. Those necessities of life are constantly being taken by development...quite possibly by the neighborhood you live in. Ever walked through a forest that is overpopulated with deer? You may notice that most foliage below the reach of a deer is gone or chewed up. This inhibits or even kills new tree growth. And I'm sure you know what that leads to.

Most hunters don't get off on killing animals, they do it to escape simpleminded people and bring some good, clean meat home. Oh yeah, the company that developed this camo developed gore-tex fabric (stated above) that helps our military be more effective. And our military is what has protected our way of life and right to free speech over the past 230 some years.

To hide a hunter

Fred, central Illinois — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:50:01 GMT

Poor guy, wanting no animal blood shed... Sorry but does the phrase 'food chain' mean anything? It's a basic fact of life, part of the wonderful 'balance of nature' that makes this world work so well. Technology to assist the hunter is part of the reason the human race has survived - it's part of the history of mankind. First flint arrowheads, now a new understanding of animal vision - it's a natural progression!

To hide a hunter

Stan, Springfield, Mass — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:52:51 GMT

Folks, if you don't hunt the deer, do you know what will happen? We have gotten rid of all the natural predators. They overpopulate, get sick, and start dying and spreading disease.

I have no problem with anyone who hunts for food, especially for a commonly available animal like deer. Deer is delicious.

Which is more cruel, going hunting for deer, or penning up animals, fattening them up, restricting their movement, and slaughtering them?

To hide a hunter

Bruce, Illinois — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:54:26 GMT

I see nothing wrong with technology helping hunters to hide while hunting. As any seasoned hunter knows it isn't just the suit your wearing that hides the hunter, he must also use guise and skill. If it was just the suit, then I guess that means anyone putting on a 300 dollar armani suit would then be considered a lawyer!
Also in responce to David's comment, I suppose he's never eaten any meat in his life, seeing how quick he is to judge hunters. Don't get me wrong, I think the world in general needs a major overhaul and technology isn't always the answer as has been proven by the world's economic crisis. I wonder if all the people who are against hunting would be willing to donate their real estate for the "timid woodland creatures" that have survived for thousands of years to create a preserve for them to live on, seeing how it's the loss of land that makes it difficult for them to find food or places to live.
But don't worry, for if human history teaches us anything it's that it's human nature to take the latest technological advances and corrupt them into the most efficent killing devices for all the world to use, so just wait long enough and with time the only thing left will be the "timid woodland creatures" getting the last laugh!

To hide a hunter

swiftcall, San Antonio, Texas — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:55:58 GMT

Do not pity the deer, David, pity man.

The day is coming when machines can find and distinguish man in any complex sensor image, and follow our fixed action patterns by progromatic analysis of our instincts, emotions, and detectable stress levels, and even our "face perception".

And those machines will be programmed to hunt us down and kill us.

In the future, war will not be fought by men, it will be fought by machines that predate men.

In the future, the value of human life will become zero. Machines will become the heroes. And war will become meaningless as a human endeavor.

The doorway into this line of thought was opened up to me by media coverage of the Gulf War: it was the opposite of the potrayal of of the Great War, and all previous wars, when war centered around the individual, his courage, his convictions, etc....

Since thas time, machines have become the new heroes, and their power and skill in battle exalted, and the human side of warfare has become a footnote.

To hide a hunter

tom. vancouver, wa — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:28:03 GMT

being a hunter means not having to apologize for reaching the highest pinnacle of human ability.

To hide a hunter

LTM — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:30:32 GMT

Calling hunting a sport when the animal has no chance of winning the game is actually laughable. Maybe the human race will evolve into something much better than we've got right now, but until then big burly men with small genitals needing weapons to kill something to prove how manly they are, to me, are pathetic creatures and they're hiding serious insecurity issues which a therapist would take a lifetime to unmask.

To hide a hunter

Lorna, San Francisco, CA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:35:21 GMT

What no one has mentioned is the absolute agony, pain, fear and terror an animal experiences during a hunt. Sure, some hunters will retort that their first shot kills the animal instantly. But look at all of the other times when that first shot doesn't kill an animal and they flee, in vain, dying a painful, excrutiating death. Why would you want to eat meat that has all of these stress hormones in it? Everyone knows it ruins the taste. If you want meat, go to the grocery store. I'm not even going to get into how the U.S. government made it a policy to kill all of the buffalo, wolves and grizzlies that they could find to prepare for the white man to move into the area. Like most things that man does, when it comes to "managing" nature -- we've messed up the balance. Granted, there's nothing humane about having a pack of wolves rip a deer/elk/moose apart. [...]

To hide a hunter

Christina in Pennyslvania — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:37:50 GMT

As a one who has been a vegan, vegetarian and a carnivore, I am familiar with the complex of thoughts and feelings that the eating of an animal ignites. I would rather eat a deer or any other overly abundant animal that is currently destroying native vegetal species (due to the loss of natural predators) than a cow that has been eating foods unnatural to its biology and kept in deplorable conditions. The cow is also emitting an obnoxious amount of methane gas into the atmosphere while consuming much more energy (kcal)than it is producing. Having said that, the culture of hunting is problematic in that the taking of life is often treated as a sport. In most cultures, the animal from which a peoples depends on for its food (and which is often times synonymous with "making a living"), is treated well and thanks are given after its life is taken. In our society this can translate into, knowing when it is time to take the life of an animal (when it is out of balence with the environment around it), and knowing when not to (when the ecosystem needs it more than we do). We must not forget our we are a part of the ecosystem as well as dependant upon it. As long as hunters are killing for sustenance,there can be little problem with it (as long as the species is not endangered, obviously).
It is true that our ancient ancestors, as well as ourselves, have omnivorous teeth, not the herbivorous flat teeth that our relatives in the ape family possess.That being said there are certainly groups of humans that have been vegetarian for centuries if not longer (such as in India) that show it is entirely possible to never eat the flesh of a beast and still consume all of the proteins and nutrients needed to physically thrive. An addiction to overly processed vegetarian foods ( boca and morningstar farms products) is not a supremely healthy and sustainable substitute either.
So, in the ends it seems we should plant some gardens, learn how to cook for ourselves, and maybe hunt the overpopulous (and in some cases, starving because of it) animals. So, lets get to work everyone, and transform ourselves, as well as our nation!

To hide a hunter

Dale Miler, Morris, PA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:44:35 GMT

Hunting isn't something I do, it is a significant part of who I am. It is a heritage.

Far too many of us are too far removed from the farm, fields, and forests, and the sea (waters) the sources of all that we eat.

To hide a hunter

Dirk, Salt Lake City, Ut — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:54:00 GMT

I wondered how long until they caught up to this idea. Ever since I saw the program about the military making the change, I figured it would be just a matter of time. I think it is way cool! Now if we could figure out how to hide "David", that would even be better [...]

To hide a hunter

Dale Miller — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:57:47 GMT

Perhaps my genitals are small, perhaps not, but folk tales and personal insults are never going to change my heritage or who I am. However, if you insist, you many want to comment on my daughter's genitals too. She's hunted since age twelve, is now 32, a secondary math teacher, wife and mother of two. She got one deer so far this year, and that with a bow.

As for sport, I never call hunting a sport, it is a lifestyle to us. It is not all about meat, although we do eat or someone eats what we kill. In addition to meat there are hides, feathers, antlers, bones, all used for clothing, adornment, interior or exterior decorating, and the list goes on.

Deer and most wildlife are renewable resources, like corn, beans, and trees. It is likely much more enviromentally friendly to use renewable resources, than say...oil, coal, natural gas.

I would never open a faucet just to watch water run, or ignite a gallon of gasoline just to watch it burn, anymore than I would shoot a deer, just to watch it die.

To hide a hunter

Wrather Pughtown Penna — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:06:21 GMT

Too ALL of you hippie FREAKS out there, you are PANSIES! So, since I am a hunter, I must have small genitals and must hunt to feel more "Manly"! HAHA, you GEEKS, your master is the computer, you are slaves to technology. What will you do when all of this technology FAILS, and it will, you will NOT SURVIVE! HAHA..GOOD!! You will be LOST, and PERISH! Yes, it feels GREAT to be sitting in the woods with a high power weapon, I'd rather hunt than play the women's game GOLF, now, that is NOT manly! Men are sissies today, thanks to womens LIB! HAHA! Now, be a stay at home DAD, no wonder that our diseased SOCIETY is FAILING..and do NOT forget..HUMANS ARE A DYING SPECIES! HAHA! Our days are NUMBERED..YES!!!!

To hide a hunter

Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:11:28 GMT

David (1st comment) is either a vegetarian or he prefers his meat penned up and restrained for a peaceful, stress free kill.

I hope Smokey, in SC (12/10, 2331) isn’t talking long pig.

LTM, *somebody* has issues.

I say camo’s okay for a bowhunter. Maybe handgunners. If you can’t get to rifle range in jeans and a t-shirt, …

To hide a hunter

Iana, St. Louis, MO — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:14:11 GMT

LTM -- Who cares about the size of a man's genitals? That has nothing to do with hunting. If you don't want to hunt, great. If you do want to hunt, that is also great. There is not a law in this great land that says you have to hunt. If you don't want to, go to the store. I hunt meat that way every week. I also hunt birds, deer, fish, buffalo -- anything that is legal. I enjoy the teaching of others, the group of family and the wonder of nature.

As far as I am concerned, if hunting is legal where you live, you have a choice. If you don't want to hunt, don't. If you do want to hunt, all the better.
Calling names doesn't do anything for you or your point. By the way, I am a mother of three wonderful children. Two of them hunt, and the other wants nothing to do with hunting. My husband and I love our children and respect their rights and choices.

We (all of us) run a company. Hunting doesn't affect our family in any way.

To hide a hunter

JDY, Raleigh, NC — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:19:06 GMT

Obviously not everyone lives in the real world. It must be pretty easy to depend on a grocery store for all your needs... It must be nice to depend on someone else for all your needs. Sorry guys, but out here in the real world, we still value the independence to take care of yourself and your own family. We still value the ability to pass this own to our children, and to pass it on in an ethical way that you choose to ignore. We value the security of knowing that we could survive even without the babying of our government and the detached corporations. We value traditions, we value ethics, and I'm willing to bet we value life more than most people ever think about. We understand how the world really works, and I guarantee you we value the sustainability of our environment more than people who live in cities and don't do anything for themselves. When our environment manages to still sustain us a hundred years from now... thank someone who took the time to understand, care, and make a difference. Don't criticize something you know nothing about. It doesn't make a point, it highlights your naivete.

- A 20-year-old, college-educated female with values

To hide a hunter

KC — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:21:25 GMT

I think that the animal lovers here are forgetting that we are animals too. I love my pets, but don't think for a minute that wild animals will walk right up to you for a scratch on the head.
You have to be from one school or the other. Either we are above the animal kingdom or are a part of it. I choose to accept that we are part of the order (predator and/or prey), and game management in the states has a done the best job it can with considering the growth of our own species.
And that is some interesting camo.

To hide a hunter

Haugen,Foley Al — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:32:31 GMT

Ok,as a hunter,I look for anything that gives me an edge.Deer,elk,or any other game animal is at home and very familiar with his/her home range.Those of you who decry hunting as some great evil must rember that the very hunters you want to stop are the largest source of funds to protect the environment thatthe animals they hunt need to survive.since the wolves,Puma,and grizzlies that would keep the population prey species in check are gone in most parts of North America,some one has to keep the deer under control.If not there would be more deer than the land could support.As to an animal dying a horriable death.Have you ever seen what a starving animal goes through?As too buying my meat.At least the deer,elk,etc.isn't full of drugs,urea,and growth hormones Lastly.If you don't like hunting.Don't go.

To hide a hunter

L R Bear — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:41:14 GMT

In Oakland CA people shoot, stab, and hurt other people. Not for food, but for reasons unknown to me, and they don't even eat their prey. They use the latest in camoflage. Black hoodies, bandanas, baggy pants, and etc. Now that is someting to complain about. Deer hunting is more than a sport. It helps control herd size and health. One dies so many can live a long healthy life. AND the one that dies suffers no more than a person quitting smoking. If you don't want to hunt or eat meat, I respect that. Please allow me to eat meat and hunt for that meat with the same respect you expect from me. Bear

To hide a hunter

AJ, Nevada — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:54:40 GMT

agony and pain, fear and panic? What about hunger and starvation, sickness and illness? If we're going to be redundant and repeat ourselves, hunting is a natural part of life, deer will be hunted by something whether it be man or a lesser predator, unless you eliminate the predators and then they overpopulate and die of starvation and disease. Where is the humanity in any of it??????? Oh wait, they aren't human HELLO. No most of the world is not with David, just the head in the clouds fools who don't want reality to intrude on their ideals. Hunting is not about being the man with the big stick and small testicles, it is about being the animal that man is not the sheep he is becoming.

To hide a hunter

Courtney, Seattle, WA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:11:29 GMT

I love reading all the posts. You've got all these people crying that Bambi is going to die... Face it, if humans (the cruel evil animal that we are) doesn't kill that deer, then as stated above, disease, other animals, or it may even kill itself (breaking an ankle, leg, or falling and getting infected wound). So for the what 10% of the population that actually hunts and the 2% of those that will buy this camo please do us all a favor and take out the deer over population. There is no difference between a hunter who goes out and hunts for his food or the hippie that goes to the store to buy his organic lettuce and bananas... Other then if/when anything happens to our infrastructure the TRUE hunter will actually be able to find food while the hippie will cry the when his organic lettuce is no longer available.

To hide a hunter

Peter — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:17:36 GMT

Neat. BUT fairly useless once you put on your bright orange safety vest! :p

To hide a hunter

Another hunter, Grapevine, Texas — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:26:15 GMT

Wow, apparently America has become a bit "weeny-fied" in the past 20 years. If you want meat, go to the store?? Are you kidding? I'd rather have clean meat with no hormones raised in the wild than a New York Strip cut from a slaughterhouse-raised cow.

Believe it or not, many, many hunters are conservationists who know that they aren't hunting "for sport" but to regulate populations since deer don't have many natural predators any more (in many areas, anyway). Same with other animals. Even if they WERE being hunted for sport, the end result is the same.

I used to hunt, but I no longer do. But rest assured I can nail a deer with the best of 'em if I need to eat :)

If you [...] feel the need to whine, at least whine about something meaningful, like starvation in Africa. I bet those people wish they had the ability to hunt as we do...

To hide a hunter

T.McQuade,St.Maries,Idaho — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:30:37 GMT

Lorna, glad to see that you acknowledge that Our grey wolf packs are not humane killers. The bears,mountain lions,and human hunters usually get the job done quickly and effiently and rarely waste any of the meat.several times in the last few winters here I have seen where grey wolves have killed deer and elk (some large healthy bulls) and never eaten them (it's called sport killing).I think members of peta,the hsus etc.should come and spend a winter in Wyoming,Montana,or Idaho and view the results (and inhumane killing of Our ungulates) by Our grey wolves.

To hide a hunter

Geoff, Wisconsin — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:31:57 GMT

I can't believe some of the naiivete on here.

These aren't people hunting a deer because they want to "kill bambi" or hang a head on a wall. Most deer hunters I know of are hunting for meat. Yes, we can go to the store and buy hamburger - ever see how those animals are treated?

As far as the "fear and stress" of a hunt, don't make me laugh. How is *our* hunting them - sitting for hours, barely moving, just watching and waiting - any different from another animal hunting them, be it bear, wolf, great cat? Some animals hunt, some are hunted. It's part of life.

Finally, hunting is not just authorized, but regulated. Would you rather have a deer die from a gunshot or arrow, and serve as food, or let it and the rest of an oversized population die of starvation over the winter? Most of their natural predators (other than us) are severely diminished if not gone completely. Do you, and your abhorrance of hunting deer, providing a quick death for food, prefer letting them die a slow, cold death over the winter instead? How *humane.*

To hide a hunter

F.C. Dobbs — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:33:27 GMT

Allegedly, there are more deer now in the US than when Columbus arrived. Mostly a combination of killing off their predators plus habitat changes.

Anyway, hunting is in our DNA. How else can you explain goose hunting, which is mostly lying in mud during a freezing drizzle waiting to shoot something that is barely edible.

To hide a hunter

Greg, Juneau, Alaska — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:36:52 GMT

I, my father, his father... etc. have been able to hunt without technology for hundreds of thousands of years. Don what is warm and hit the woods! This is a perfect example of the human race getting more and more lazy and unable to fend for itself. Hunting is a skill that is developed in the wild, not purchased from the store.

To hide a hunter

Dominic, Minnesota — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:48:45 GMT

Please do not try to insinuate that the meat in the grocery store is more "humane." Meat in grocery stores is from animals raised in factory farms where treatment of animals is abhorrent. Not only animals confined to the point that they can't move freely but even herbivores are fed back to their own kind. Between zoonotic diseases that will develop antibiotic resistance and spread of rare diseases such as the source of the mad cow scare, how did hunting become the "abnormal" way of getting meat?

To hide a hunter

Eddie K, Columbus, GA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:14:59 GMT

I am a card holding member of "PETA"...People Eating Tasty Animals

To hide a hunter

Dave, Exit 38, Washington — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:48:54 GMT

Concerned about fear and terror experienced by deer? It's the way of nature. Better for people and better for them. Always feel good for the deer that it ran away to safety in fear rather than coming over to visit you.

The camo helps just a little. Hunting is hard work that involves all your senses. Like nothing else it tests your patience, your wits, your fear, your endurance, your honesty, your strength, and your accuracy. It's not for everyone.

To hide a hunter

Tony, Anaheim CA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:52:12 GMT

lorna & LTM ????
As a person who as a youngster, working in a bloody killing field, butchering animals for profit, to provide your supermarkets with meat,so you can eat without the gilt or concerns of where your food came from.
Makes me question the comments you bogged.
Don’t think of the pain and suffering;
Just eat your steak and forget about where it came from. I can tell you that the stress and absolute fear of the animals killed for your store wrapped meats are far worse than animals harvested from the natural environment. The next time you eat any beef, pork, chicken, or god help you lamb, I for one, hope you think, while you are eating, that you contemplate about the animals crying in absolute terror before being killed, cut up, gutted, stripped and racked for your pleasure.

Enjoy your hormone enhanced animal products!

God bless all American hunters
Keepers of our ongoing heritage

Black powder hunter by choice.

To hide a hunter

Yorkshire — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:00:24 GMT

I believe it is good technology becuase we have to eat like a Lion has to eat meat but that isnt cruel, So why is it when humans hunt and eat its cruel... completely stupid... if ur a vegetarian keep ur opinion to urself! Us meatheads dont wanna know

To hide a hunter

Chris, Jefferson City, Tenn. — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:37:37 GMT

As someone with hunting experience, and being raised on a S.Dak. farm, I don't have a problem with gun-hunting. I consider bow-hunting to be cruel, however, with some research showing up to 30% of shot deer escaping, only to die days later of an arrow in the intestines, flank, etc. Why not use technology to develop either an explosive head which would have the effect of a 30/30 or perhaps a radio transmitter to permit better tracking?

To hide a hunter

Mike Doe, Seattle, WA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:49:36 GMT

I'm in favor of a fair fight. No weapons, no camoflauge for either side. May the best species win.

To hide a hunter

Bob, Central, Florida — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:26:10 GMT

I wish they would do the same thing for cat vision. Just north of Orlando, there is an area overrun by feral cats and it is spreading. A bad decision was made to protect them and disease etc. is the result. If you think birds of prey aren't looking at those cats, you are mistaken. Now think. What have we created by establishing an area covered by cats? Dogs, alligators, large birds - all hunt these cats, many that have been turned loose by owners and do not know how to feed or protect themselves. Those that do are breeding and attacking the others. Animal lovers make mistakes too.

To hide a hunter

Kent C., Heidelberg, Germany — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:35:51 GMT

Wow, great stuff! I believe this is only the beginning for effective camouflage technology. As an amateur marketer, sometimes hunter, occasional comment poster, and an all-around good guy, I have consolidated many of the above posts into distinct marketing segments and selected the predominant ones for considerations for the R&D section at W.L. Gore & Associates.

W.L. Gore & Associates, please consider camouflage patterns of the following types:

- Those that hide hunters from prey while at the same enhance the hunter’s genitals.
- Consider producing a hat or scarf that would make folks like David appear intelligent.
- How about slip-covers for my laundry hamper that makes it appear to be a bag full of money?

Please discontinue the following products:
- The invisibility products my co-workers wear after 1200 on Fridays.
- The kids-gear worn by my children when their chores are not done.

To hide a hunter

Chris, Goergia — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:40:52 GMT

I love all of God's creatures. I believe they should all have a place in this world. Right next to my mashed potatoes.

To hide a hunter

Mark, Texas — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:53:55 GMT

Dominic, your point was so excellent you would think it would shut down this issue once and for all. Pure logic. And I have never been hunting. Ever.

To hide a hunter

C D Hampton, Rock Springs Wyo. — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:54:30 GMT

People post negative thoughts about hunting. Most I have noticed are from big citys or states that have little hunting in them. However before knocking hunters so bad, try driving by a stock yard. Where your future dinner is standing on manure piles 20 feet high. the smell nausiates you. Vegatarians yes in a lot of ways animals are defensless. but imagine a plant if you could here them. unable to move as that big combine comes at them metal wheeels turning and ripping them out of the ground peeeling them alive/ yes plants are living creatures to. how is this any better than hunting for your own food that is actually healthier than store bought food. Wild meat is leaner less fat lower cholesterol and free from man made growth hormones and anti biotics. as for small genitilia at least we have the gonads to get out and deal with mother nature instead of hiding behind tour walls wherre people prey on people.. Thank God for the great outdoors and no city slickers.

To hide a hunter

alan, baltimore, md — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:17:11 GMT

Lorna, San Francisco, CA
[...]
What no one has mentioned is the absolute agony, pain, fear and terror an animal experiences during a hunt. Sure, some hunters will retort that their first shot kills the animal instantly. But look at all of the other times when that first shot doesn't kill an animal and they flee, in vain, dying a painful, excrutiating death. Why would you want to eat meat that has all of these stress hormones in it? Everyone knows it ruins the taste. If you want meat, go to the grocery store.
*****************
I guess hunting is crueller than death by starvation that results from overpopulation of deer. Even my "hippie" wife majoring in environmental science knows this; she is doing a research paper on deer population and environmental impact.

And do you really think that the meat you get in a grocery store is less cruel? Look up on youtube videos on slaughterhouses. There was one I saw where a steer was shocked in the rectum with an electric cattleprod, not to mention beaten and kicked (before it was cut open while still alive and moaning).

Anyone who criticizes hunters (and I'm not one-a hunter or a critic) is a hypocrite if they've ever eaten meat, given birth to more than two children (overpopulation & habitat loss), or bought into the whole material culture of automobies, TVs, central air, etc etc. Modern and "normal" civilization has caused far more animal suffering than a relative handful of hunters, who are essentially playing the role of the bears and wolves that you mindless zombie hordes have displaced with your cities, suburbs and highways.

To hide a hunter

George, Virginia — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:20:03 GMT

I look forward to any help that I can get. If you are a hunter you know what I am talking about. Deer are much smarter than some of you know. I usually kill only one or two a year to eat, we have some hunters that kill everything they see, and as some of you have stated it is better for you than what is purchased at the store. I have watched one buck for two years waiting for him to make a mistake but he has not, not while I was around. The other day one of the guys in our club was in that stand for 5 min. and he appeared. Now I won't have to hunt for him again but for another. Deer are not dumb, they are very smart and as someone has stated hunters are more conservation minded than most and they are. Even with the best camo. deer will see you so we need all the help we can get.

To hide a hunter

Jym Allyn — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:23:11 GMT

When technology becomes sufficiently obsolete, it becomes an art form.

Hunting is an art form.

And "swiftcall" is brilliant in recognizing that the subtleties of "recognition" will be used against us by the robots. However, despite the billions of people who will be killed, humans will defeat the robots because we can do something they cannot: we can be irrational.

That part of our creative process will be our salvation.

To hide a hunter

Monte, The Country, Illinois — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:55:41 GMT

Gee Joan, judging by the amount of comments basically describing David's point as ridiculous, I'd say that there are actually very few people who agree with him. Perhaps you and David are the ones who are not "normal". Wake up, the insulated, "safe", and atificial city you live in is a man-made construct. It is not the real world. The real world lives by the law of fang and claw. I am so glad I am a part of it and not of yours.

To hide a hunter

Robert Jones, Kansas City, Missouri — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:16:57 GMT

A local park in the Kansas City metro area is seriously considering allowing deer hunting on its grounds this year. The deer population there is about 1200% of the maximum sustainable population for the area. If the deer are allowed to remain in their current population, it is estimated about half will die of starvation this winter, they will bring ticks carrying diseases such as lyme disease into human use areas, and the deer will eat too much undergrowth that is essential for other species, some of which are on the threatened list. Of course, the local tree-huggers are fighting the temporary hunting rule. Starvation, disease, and the destruction of threatened species habitat is much preferable to the harvesting of a few deer by human hunters, who will strive to make quick, clean kills, if only so they don't have to spend extra time tracking a wounded animal.

To hide a hunter

NWV DuBois, PA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:19:19 GMT

Bruce, I'm coming to Illinios so you can show me where to buy a 300 dollar Armani suit. And Swiftcall? Too many movies bud.

To hide a hunter

Dale Johnson Klamath Falls, Oregon — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:48:43 GMT

I find this argument rather funny as I hunt only for food. I do not kill for fun as some of the people are inferring. I believe that we need to look for a balance between healthy animals and unhealthy ones. I am also against animals that have never seen the earth due to some factory filling them with hormones and such. These hormones and such do not break sown in cooking so we are feeding the same hormones to our families which is causing many of the problems that we see today in our bodies. I would rather have some meat that has eaten wild vegetation and theefore grown up healthy. I am finding that many people who are so much against hunting do not even know where their milk comes from, let alsone the other foods that they eat. Is this really humain? Thry to think instead of regurgitating some garbage that was told you on the one eyed wonder they call the best brainwashing tool ever invented (the Television).

To hide a hunter

Glen Scutt, Newark, NJ — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:49:01 GMT

Ok, modern science helps the hunter. How about we now research on helping the prey, to even things out. Could we, for example, breed deer to exhibit "dazzle" patterns (developed by the Navy in WWI) on their fur to be less visible to hunters?

To hide a hunter

Joe Hunter, WI — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:50:39 GMT

The non hunters posting here have no clue. Go out and read. Learn what would happen if we did not hunt wild animals. Learn what is involved in hunting. Learn the success rates. Animals that have no defense? You really think its that easy.

And for those of you that do not hunt and enjoy our public lands, make sure you thank a hunter. It is hunter dollars that pay for much of those lands.

To hide a hunter

Living in the Catrskills — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:34 GMT

My daughter was in a horrid car accident with a deer...totaled her car and nearly totaled her life. We are new to the area and were surprised by the small size of the deer and the huge population. I say there needs to be more thinning of the herds here...and the only way that is going to happen is by the human hunters. There are not enough non-human predators left.

To hide a hunter

An avid woman hunter — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:56:38 GMT

I would rather eat the deer I hunt then the meat in the grocery store. With all the antibotics, hormones and other crap they feed and inject in them. I am an avid hunter and OH LTM I AM A WOMAN. My husband was the one that got me into hunting. It took him years to convince me but in the end I love it. At least when I put dinner on the table I know what's in my food do you? Another question for you. Do you eat fish?

To hide a hunter

William, Eugene, Oregon — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:12:41 GMT

Venison, or any wild game has to be the ultimate organically grown super food on the planet.
And nature placed them there for a reason, food for predators, of which humans are one.
Hunting is most certainly in our DNA, suppress it if you so choose, but don't force me to.
Hunting is much more to me than a diversion, it is what I do, the other pursuits in my life are just diversions from hunting.

To hide a hunter

Russell Singletary — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:12:49 GMT

LTM,as for needing a weapon to kill animals,our ancestors left us with a wealth of knowledge which I have studied extensivly.While I prefer a well placed shot from a high power rifle,if it comes right down to it,I can kill to feed my family using only what is found in the forest(unless that too dissapears due to development).Examples:A long stick sharpened into a spear,a pit fall made by digging a hole in the ground and covering it with leaves,or a deadfall made from a fallen tree.The list dates back to the beginning of time so I will stop here.With this being said,if you will not criticise me for hunting I will not criticise you for inspecting the genitals of big burly men.

To hide a hunter

Liko — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:16:19 GMT

Its a little easier eating an animal after hunting it, than it is to try to scrape it off the road and your truck after you just splattered it doing 70 mph. Maybe we should invest in technology to train deer to be a little more responsible for crossing road and highways.
I am sure the police (who protect us from evil) would agree that a high speed chase would be more efficient without trying to dodge deer during the process.
And just what is David doing reading an article on stealth and hunting, being an anti hunter, anyways.
Hmmm maybe he has an inkling to get out and give it a try.

To hide a hunter

Kent, Indianapolis, IN — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:25:15 GMT

I don't understand the complaints about using technology to kill animals. What do you want hunters to do ... jump out from behind a tree and strangle the deer with his bare hands? The bow, the gun, the scope, were all major advances in technology that no one argues about, and there are still too many deer! (No, I am NOT a hunter. But I will defend their right to hunt.)

To hide a hunter

Tom, Southern Illinois — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:25:26 GMT

Just this morning on my way taking my kids to school there were two deer that had been killed overnight by a vehicle. Not only was it a hazard laying in the road to cause more accidents, you had onlookers stopping and checking them out. I'm sure there were vehicles damaged as well as people may have been hurt.

Data shows that deer population has exploded in the last fifty years by new game laws, loss of habitat, and hunters being conservationists. I applaud those of us who hunt and help manage the population. I can't imagine what it would be like if our hunting privledges were taken away. The animal populations, disease, and many more vehicle accidents would sky rocket. Look at some of the statistics on vehicular deer accidents per state...it's unbelieveble.

Just last night we enjoyed our harvest once again as we will continue to do as long as there are laws to allow us to. Venison is our primary source of red meat as we do not buy tainted, red dye #5, gas induced red meat from the stores. Once you understand how to process your harvest right when it is taken it will make a world of difference once it hits your table.

You need to try venison or even elk sometime that is prepared properly...it will be hard to go back to beef.

To hide a hunter

David Cross, Boaque Farms NM — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:27:09 GMT

Wow...Swiftcall...what a hoot. Have you noticed the machines you fear so much are controlled by....gasp.....humans? I think I know where you're headed with this, but for now, go outside and have an actual conversation with someone...please....for your own wellbeing....peace

To hide a hunter

Patrick Sheridan — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:39:46 GMT

Looks like a great product. One of the divisions of my company is a graphic design service but my entire company is in the design field, and blending objects into their environment is something I specialize in so I can appreciate the effort behind the product.

Oddly enough I'm currently painting the stock and forearm of a rifle. Just finished the final tapeoff to create my customized camo pattern yesterday.

After considerable researh and generating several different types of camo patterns with graphic design software, I came up with my final pattern and it is very similar to the pattern (the macro in particular) to that referenced in this article. I'm also using a bone color background with black pattern blocks, so again similar to the color pallet used by the developer of Optifade. Keep up the good work Optifade folks. I'm sure you've eyed the military industry - would like to see your product offerings to help better blend our troops into their environments. It could save lives on the battlefields.

I'm not clear how this blog turned into a discussion about the pro's and con's of hunting, but since it has, I'd like to comment on that too. Everything living thing on this planet has a purpose and a life cycle. It will live and die, whether it be a plant or an animal - including people. When an animal dies it becomes food for something - people, predators, scavengers, etc. As hunters we just choose the when and where. When I hunt, one of my top priorities is to dispatch the animal in the most efficient manner - in other words, I want to kill it quickly and I do not want it to suffer. I eat what I kill and give any extra to those in need.

David, it would be very easy to pick on you, but you've been bashed so much on this blog, there's not much sport in it. I actually feel pity for you.

When the day comes (and you can rest assured, it is coming again - as everything in natural world is cyclical) when folks can't run down to the local market to buy food - when they will have to subsist off of the land and their own skills, well, we won't have to worry about folks like you for long now will we.

You'll probably starve to death in a rather short amount of time, or if you're all as weak willed as you appear to be weak minded, and don't seem to understand that people are greatest predators of all, folks like you are going to have pretty tough and short lives. You need to cowboy up and come to terms with the realities of this world. Maybe your a vegetarian, but if you've ever eaten meat, someone killed the animal that meat was harvested from. You should thank them for your dinner. End of story.

To hide a hunter

Tim,Nevada — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:41:51 GMT

How about the good old days of loin cloth and spear.

To hide a hunter

huntlikeagirl, NC — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:44:28 GMT

Really? Do the naive, removed-from-reality urbanites have nothing to do than attack the things of which they have no comprehension?
Whatever.
I'm really wondering how you real hunters feel about this. I hunt and wear traditional camo, and I'm pretty impressed by this technology and the thought and effort put into a simple camouflage design. I'm just not sure how willingly I'd break from mossy oak to hunt in digital camo. Call me a conformist, but I don't want to be the only hunter wearing this when I'm with a group of people who still look like trees. Not gonna deny its very cool though. Thoughts?

To hide a hunter

dancing rabbit — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:46:51 GMT

A few random thoughts on the above...

Hunting is necessary to control animal populations of certain species, such as deer in lieu of the natural preditors we have long since extirpated from many areas.

If anyone out there thinks that humanity is going to survive on wild game for any period at all they should crunch some numbers.

If any of you values nature (Gods Creation) you should be doing something about population growth... 6.5 billion and doubling... Population growth threatens all of nature and ultimately the human species.

Anyone who is looking forward to a collapse of civilization and has the plans and supplies already laid out is suffering from a megalomnaical pathology.

Trophy hunting weakens the herd by taking the best, unlike nature which culls the weakest.

Living in the North Georgia mountains, I find that much of the population are really a weenies with exagerated fears of the snakes, terrorists, and other unlikely threats. Spurred on by these fears they lash out with guns or by proxy the military.

Those who link their patriotism and machismo to religion are so far divorced from Jesus' teachings as to be "anti-christians."

To hide a hunter

Melanie, Kansas City, Missouri — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:47:47 GMT

I have little respect for those who hunt for sport and do not use the meat. Very few hunters are blood thirsty savages! It's like saying that all people who eat at buffets are gluttons. Anyone who likes to eat meat should have to kill and process at least some of it themselves. It teaches you to hate wastefulness and respect the taking of an animal's life. Go visit a commercial farm or slaughterhouse and tell me who is more humane. Most who oppose hunting apparantly do not realize that the proceeds from hunting licenses allow states to fund our public lands. If they would put their money where their mouth is (and figure out another way to control animal populations!) hunting would not be necessary.

To hide a hunter

Pete, Virginia — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:53:15 GMT

Will the technology process help improve our military camouflage? That is the real difficulty as the surroundings change from the field to urban to desert. Are separate patterns required for each? Some Asian countries already have blue in their patterns. Does that mean they are ahead of us in the science or just in the recognition that blue works?

To hide a hunter

alicia, adirondacks mtns, ny — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:54:25 GMT

Hunting, and being comfortable with it, is really about being more knowledgeable of your food and where it comes from.
-Venison is organic, free range red meat with half the fat and twice the protein of beef. It was not herded into a slaughterhouse yard, shot, drained, and processed; those nice steaks in your local grocery store don't grow in the styrofoam containers.
-Hunting is called "hunting", not "catching"; just because I take a walk in the woods with a gun has no bearing on whether I will see, much less get a shot, at a deer. That requires skill and knowledge.
-Please do not mistake poachers with sportsmen and women. Losers who trespass, violate game regulations and endanger others with their behavior are NOT SPORTSMEN. They are POACHERS. They have made many members of the public look at hunting as wrong - when in fact it has been a way of obtaining food since humanity began.
-Wildlife biologists responsible for managing deer populations in all 50 states know that unmanaged herds become too large to be sustained by their ecosystem, causing massive winter starvation in deer yards during harsh winters and wildly fluctuating numbers of deer. Hunting is a proven method of maintaining more consistent herds.
-Sportsmen pay for conservation with their fees, taxes on their gear, Ducks Unlimited memberships and volunteer time spent educating others.
-My husband, myself and my 15 yr old daughter hunt. When my daughter got her first duck a few years ago, my grandmother's comment about growing up during the depression and having to "go wring a chicken's neck when we wanted chicken for dinner" made her laugh and gave a direct inter-generational reference they both related to.
-Finally, please all you hunters, respect the opinions of those who don't hunt. Allow them the opportunity to respect yours by being respectful of private property and following your state's game regulations. Demonstrate the possibilities that can come from families spending time together in the woods.

To hide a hunter

CJ, Houston , Texas — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:56:58 GMT

The PETA/Greenpeace freaks who are complaining about hunters are the same ones with leather shoes, leather interiors in the cars and leather coach purses. Someone please explain that to me.

To hide a hunter

Jeff C — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:59:25 GMT

christina...insightful response that basically sums this arguement up. Good to hear from you!

To hide a hunter

bill lisak scranton,pa. — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:05:52 GMT

Like to see a sample of material up close. You won't be invisible if theres a smell/scent on the fabric!

To hide a hunter

Tom, St. Paul, MN — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:09:54 GMT

I was fishing on the Snake River in ID once, catch and release fishing if you want to know. I took a break from fishing and was eating my store bought lunch when a bald eagle flew down the river, plucked a trout right out of the water, landed and ripped the live fish to shreads with it beak, holding it with its tallons sunk deep into the flesh of the living fish. Wow, what a sight. Who did more damage to the fish population that day? Not me, the eagle killed and ate more fish than I did. Hey Dave, should we start killing eagles because they also hunt? Quit making an idiot out of yourself by thinking that humans are not part of the food chain. You wouldn't be if your ancestors didn't kill and eat wild game!

To hide a hunter

Rich LaBeau,South Carolina — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:11:57 GMT

Being a hunter all my life,I would have to say,its my right.I will not put down anyone who disagrees with me.I live in a free nation and will excercise my right to do so.I don't kill for sport,but if the deer has a big rack,then I will have it mounted.Whats the difference between my mounted deer or the leather from animals that we all wear? If for any reason ,like some people mentioned here,that we have to survive in the woods as our ancesters did,I can truly survive.For the people who do not have the skills to survive in the woods,I would be a blessing for you because I would not let you go hungry.I have watched some shows on tv where they had hidden cameras on meat packing and butcher plants,and have to say my kills are more humane.As for the food ,its better than what you can buy at the supermarket,and healthier for you too.Population control is also a plus.Rather than having the animals starve or get hit by more cars and causing injury to the animal or humans is a way to keep things in check.I hunt and fish and I am able to survive in case of disaster,Can you? But don't worry,Us hunters and fishermen are a kind breed and will always help people in need.Here is something else to think about,In the winter months,how many plants and such can you find to sustain you till planting season? At least if you have some cured meat you can survive.Protein and salt with some edible plant life and roots etc,will be a welcome sign for someone who is starving.

To hide a hunter

Deer Slayer — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:14:21 GMT

Cammo is all good, but what about their sense of smell. That will bust you long before any sight cues will. Climb a tree, don't move, make yourself scent-free, and you will take deer no matter what your camo pattern.

To hide a hunter

sal lanzetta — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:14:30 GMT

This technology is strictly designed for sport hunting, not to help people eat. What, no camo for cow hunting? I support the right to arm bears.

To hide a hunter

Marty Chicago Illinois — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:16:35 GMT

I am laid off from work and I don't make that much money. The deer that I harvisted fills my freezer for the season. deer hunting is also population control, to protect you from hitting a deer on the road. Hey how about this. If their werent so many I gotta haves building big houses on open land (land developers) destroying their (our) natural enviorment so you can have a big house in the newly developed subburbs, we wouldent need such population control.

Illinois once had app 23,400,000 acers of prime parrie land only 200 years ago now only 1,500 acres remain untouched so now where are the aminamls supose to go.

To hide a hunter

Ron E, IN — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:24:33 GMT

First off WOW! There are a lot of people out there that have no understanding of what hunting really is or how hard it is to take a deer. I just started back hunting this year after not doing it for the past ten years because my job and the people I associated with were not hunters. I grew up all my life being in the outdoors. From Boy Scouts to my first job out of high school at a sporting good store. I learned from day one in Boy Scouts that you must learn to survive in the wild. Yes, we are live in houses and can go to the store to get food when ever will fill the urge. What happens when that is not an option. What will you non-hunters do for food. Come to my tent and ask me for meat. I think not.
Back to hunting. Like I stated before, I just started hunting agin this year and took my first deer with a bow. Granted, todays bows are much faster and easier to shoot than the old long bow, but it is still not something anyone that does not put in the time to learn and practice can do. Hunters are very passionate about their hunting and most will tell you that they want nothing more than to put a good shot on an animal, so it does not have to suffer. I learned that this year when I shoot a deer that was struck by a car and had two broken legs. There was no chance this deer would have survied the night with all the coyotes in the area, so we legally, contacted local sheriff, took the deer. Shooting that wounded deer was the hardest of the 4 deer I took this year and it was 10 feet away and could not run. I wanted nothing but to end his suffering quickly.
So for those of you that think hunters are cruel, ask a hunting if he has ever had to shoot a wounded animal and see how he reacts. Most will tell you that it is not something they like to do, but it is in most cases keeps the animal from suffering.

To hide a hunter

silvergoldsmith1 milwaukee wisconsin — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:25:10 GMT

I'm with you David, and so is most of the normal world.
Joan Jacobs (Sent Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:37 PM)

These kinds of comments make me wonder what people are thinking when they make the remarks. The "normal" world is not in a metal and glass building, that is the Man-made world. The normal world is natural landscape. Trees and stuff. Did you ever think of what is already there when you cut the trees down to put your house in the woods? And David, People who hunt are NOT sick, it is just the natural progression of life. This year I was hunting and I saw two wolves eat a deer. The deer was half eaten before it died. That is the natural world. Even though I hunt Deer, Pheasants, Wild Turkeys and Ducks, there are some things that I will not eat. like canned Tuna. Too much mercury. And Spinach (ecoli). People who think that hunting is cruel should watch the natural world sometime. It is not like the Finding Nemo or Bambi movies that you are used to.

To hide a hunter

silvergoldsmith1 Milwaukee Wisconsin — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:32:23 GMT

Greg, I live in Wisconsin. We have 600,000 hunters during Deer season and we are required by law to wear the clothing in the color which is called "Blaze Orange" or "10 mile Orange" because it can be seen from 10 miles away. Last Deer season there were 400,000+ Deer that were Harvested in Wisconsin. Not to mention the 100,000 that were Car/Deer collisions. Safety comes from the store too.

To hide a hunter

Gary, Mansfield, OH — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:36:13 GMT

Oh the righteousness of small minded people as they sit chewing their chemically infused hamburgers, bacon and chicken nuggets that someone else killed FOR them!! Maybe if they tried some lean, chemical free wild game in their diet for a while their brain cells would start to function! It galls me to see how many deer are killed on our roadways each year and just left to rot and the bleeding hearts think that is better than Bambi being eaten!

To hide a hunter

connie funnell — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:36:31 GMT

How about we don't concern ourselves with HIDING HUNTERS but concern ourselves with extinction because we hunt everything to death, how about trying that.

To hide a hunter

JIMMY PAGE — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:39:27 GMT

THIS IS ONE OF THE BIGEST PROBLEMS I HAVE WITH LIBERALS ,IF ITS NOT SOMETHING THEY DO OR LIKE, ITS WRONG. NEVER HAVE I SAID ANYTHING AGAINST ANYONE WHO DOESNT HUNT OR FISH BUT MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN LABELED A KILLER [...] I HAVE NEVER KILLED ANYTHING I WASNT GOING TO PUT ON MY FAMILYS TABLE, IF YOU DONT WANT TO HUNT OR FISH THATS FINE BUT DONT KNOCK ME BECAUSE I DO .......REMEMBER IF GOD DIDENT WANT US TO EAT ANIMALS HE WOULDNT HAVE MADE THEM OUT OF MEAT..PS IF YOU ARE NOT A 100% HONEST TO GOODNESS VEGETARIAN YOUR A HIPOCRIT [...] I HAVE NOT BOUGHT BEEF IN OVER 25 YEARS AND DONT PLAN TO EAT ANY CHEMICALLY LADEN BEEF AN TIME SOON

To hide a hunter

Dan, Scott City, Kansas — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:42:57 GMT

Where I live, you are taking your life into your hands every time you drive a car at night. There have been two fatalities just in the past several months due to deer in the road-- one the father of a young child who, along with his mother, narrowly escaped death themselves. A few years back I totalled a Lincoln myself when I hit a deer. If I'd been driving my Neon, its low front end would have scooped the stupid thing right through my windshield and I'd be dead right now. The white tail and mule deer populations-- without cougars, grizzlies, and wolf packs to keep them in check-- are out of control. They breed like vermin. Something has to keep their populations in check. That something is hunters. Or would you prefer that they die off every few years due to massive starvation from overpopulation? You urban bean sprout brains with your Bambi/Thumper/Lassie/Flipper delusions of skipping barefoot through the woods while wearing togas are just ignorant of reality. The world has always been about death and killing bringing into being life and living. Some have called it Yin/Yang. I know it's hard to accept, but so is the fact that if you throw a brick straight up into the air it's going to hurt like hell when it hits you on the head on the way back down. Sheeesh.

To hide a hunter

Casper, Seward, AK — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:43:37 GMT

It's nice to see a healthy debate going on here. I've never been hunting, but most of my friends do. They don't hunt for "sport" but to survive. I'll take fresh moose, lamb, caribou anyday over store bought meat! It's fresh and natural, just like hunting!

To hide a hunter

chuck, tampa, florida — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:43:38 GMT

Deer kill more people in America than any other animal... population control is a must!!!! and before you criticize hunters you need to get your facts straight. Hunters provide more funding for enviornmental protection that any other group including green peace.

To hide a hunter

Gary, Mansfield, OH — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:44:37 GMT

How many of you complain about the inhumane treatment of animals by hunting go out and make a horse carry you fat butt around for your pleasure??? Is that humane treatment?

To hide a hunter

Michael, Chicago, IL — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:56:48 GMT

Honestly, I do not mind eating meat or killing for meat. However, I find it hard to reconcile the stoic scientific justification of controlling animal population with the sheer joy/excitement of killing an animal. I find it disingenuous to hide behind the scientific justification. If you enjoy the thrill of killing a defenseless animal with your rifle or piercing flesh with your arrow tip, just say so. Stand up for who you are. Be proud. But please, do not hide behind some scientific study that you could care less about.

To hide a hunter

Ron Wiens, Helena, MT — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:58:17 GMT

Wow! This new camo gear will be great to use when I'm sneaking up on wildlife to shoot with my camera, which I do when I'm not hunting. I'm sorry for you David, that you've been isolated from the experience of the hunting tradition so many of us love. My daughter and I have our best memories wrapped around our outdoor hunting trips.

I'm glad to live in Montana

To hide a hunter

Ken, Spokane, WA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:07:56 GMT

I figure I'll either got one with my truck or get one with my gun. Getting one with the gun is cheaper and tastes better too. Plus wild meat has been proven to be healthier than beef anyway. If you make a good shot the animal won't even know what happened. Better than what they do to livestock.

To hide a hunter

Marla, Missouri — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:12:00 GMT

Reading some of these comments makes me laugh. Hunting as a sport, never really looked at it that a way.
I know for a fact hunting is a way of life for many, another way to support their family. Not only is my freezer full of home grown vegetables and fruit, it is stocked with deer, elk and fish. I grew up on a farm, with parents that did the same things their parents did,as does my family now. Compare the cost of feeding my family of four to another family that does not hunt or plant a garden.
If you have never hunted you will never understand it so therefore you do not have the right to judge others. It is not like you get out of your car, shoot something and go home. It requires patience, the ability to withstand the cold, and to camouflage yourself. Animals can see you, smell you and hear you. If as i said you hunt for the right reasons a lot of things play into Hunting. Be it a Doe or trophy Buck the meat is all that is first and foremost important to the true hunter.

To hide a hunter

Darin, Minnesota — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:13:27 GMT

I have grown up in Minnesota and the hunting that I was taught from my dad started with respect for the deer that we would hunt. In all of the years that I have bowhunted, I have come home more often than not with no deer taken but with a smile on my face and stories to tell. The pure joy of being in the close proximity of deer in the forest and being able to watch go about their daily routines has been the real highs in the "hunt". It was the ability to be close to these animals that was the real challenge and if this new camo lets me enjoy this even more, great. I know alot of people that do not carry a weapon into the woods but only carry a camera and they enjoy the ability to be close as much as the hunters do. Any animal that we do harvest is completely eaten by my family and the first thing I do after taking that animal is to put my hand on it and say a prayer to God.

To hide a hunter

Paul, Artesia NM — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:16:37 GMT

Go to your local Game and Fish web page and look at the kill ratios for the last 10 years. You will see that they remain abut the same. This is called management; there are two problems without it, over population or extinction. We have seen the most improved technological advances during this time frame in hunting equipment from weapons to clothing to thermal socks; non of which gurantee harvesting an animal. Any hunter will tell you that its not about the kill, its all about the hunt. We are equally satisified without a kill.

To hide a hunter

Wisconsin barbarian — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:30:21 GMT

Unless you’re a vegetarian some of you are being a little bit hypocritical. Somehow it’s OK for you to eat meat if someone else killed, cleaned and cooked it for you. If I do it myself I’m called an evil barbarian.

I was nearly killed twice by deer crossing the highway into the nature preserve behind the new subdivision. They showed no pity or remorse for almost knocking me off my Harley @ 65 mph.

By the way, vegetarian is an old Indian word for piss poor hunter :-)

To hide a hunter

Darrell Messbarger — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:32:52 GMT

The true issue is that most of these anti-hunters fear those of us who do hunt because they fear that we may turn our weapons on them, either accidently or intentionally.

Let me assure you, most of us are more concerned with our place in both society and the environment than are the multitudes who are anti-gun, anti-hunting, etc.

To hide a hunter

Can anyone hunt? — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:47:45 GMT

Just can't believe some of the comments. I prefer to eat what I hunt. I know I am putting healthier food on my table to feed my family, then to buy what the stores sell. One year we had so many we actually got our families together and we made deer stew. To make a long story short. A couple of days later we all got together and drove around to find less fortunate people (homeless) and fed deer stew, rolls and hot chocolate. It ended up being one of the greatest Christmas's we ever had. What have you done? Oh by the way I am a woman. My husband was the one that taught and trained me in the art of hunting.

To hide a hunter

Tom Lawler — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:51:26 GMT

All of these comments aside, neither people who are compelled to hunt nor those that do not understand or appreciate it understand each other. Some of the motivation is clearly related to hunter-gatherer heritage and is genetically related. Some people have this, others don't. Hunting feels very natural and exciting to me, but some neighbors look at me very quizzically and I 'know' they don't understand, and it is through no fault of their own so I don't foist my ideas at them. We are all part of a food chain, but they do not process it that way. I am an extremely successful hunter and use a lot of good equipment and technology, but it is absolutely 'fair chase' and only the uninitiated believe that the animals don't have a huge advantage.

To hide a hunter

J.R., Illinois — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:54:22 GMT

The only difference between hunters and anybody else who eats meat is that hunters don't do their killing by proxy...

To hide a hunter

Karl Moffatt, Santa Fe, New Mexico — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:12:06 GMT

Hey! How about those Cowboys?

To hide a hunter

Tim A — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:12:10 GMT

I would bet that the couple rude & insulting people that are sooooo against hunting have never stepped foot in the wild. I hunt, as a matter of fact, I love to hunt. It is challenging and a great stress reliever. I agree that hunters are not all trophy hunters. Myself for example, just came off of a successful cow elk hunt. I did not get the head mounted. Have any of you seen a cow elk up close. They look like a camel! I took this hunt for the meat. I have 2 daughters that absolutly love eating the elk steaks. They have since they were 10 & 7, and you know what? They have no desire to hunt, and that's ok with me. The meat is tender and tasty with absolutly NO chemicals. I wished Dave and LTM would visit a slaughter house and see how they like where their meat comes from.

I still don't understand what me being a large man with a small set of twig & two berries have to do with hunting. I don't wrestle then to the ground and choke them to death. As a matter of fact, most hunters I know are much smaller than I (can't attest to their "package" size though), sorry LTM. I also don't need a therapist because I get "out" if I am stressed and recharge the batteries. You never here of a hunter going off the deep end and hurting people(rape, murder, child molestation, etc), but you do with the so called "quiet people".

To hide a hunter

Mejia Outdoors, Louisiana — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:13:03 GMT

First, the camo is nice. Next, hunting is a way of life all over the world. Without hunting here there wouldnt be any food left for our vegi. people to eat. Right now (with hunting) animals like deer destroy millions of dollars in crops every year, because of lack of habitat. Hunting industry invests millions back into the enviroment each year. And for those folks who talk about hunting is easy, pick up a bow and lets go!

To hide a hunter

bob ross, SD CA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:15:28 GMT

I would like a chance to hunt Chimpanzees. I feel that by eating my closest evolutionary ancestor, I can truly establish myself as the top of the food chain.

[ALAN ADDS: I think Bob is trying to be humorously shocking here, but it does bring up the issue of bushmeat. Sometimes it's not so good to eat meat from species that are too close to you ... there's the risk of exotic disease transmission, for example, Ebola or other species-jumping pathogens. Here's a story that refers to primate meat problems:]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15922553/

To hide a hunter

Sandra P. Sacramento CA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:17:57 GMT

As a hunter I consume the animal taken, i am not murdering a defenseless beast in a zoo. It's unfortunate so many people would rather be a part of the HORRIBLE corporate farming practices. Blind leading the blind. God Bless. Sandra P.

To hide a hunter

WhatUpBoy - New Orleans — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:20:29 GMT

I think there ought to be a movement of a true "hunter against animal" equal contest. No guns, No weapons, nothing but cunning and stealth. Most fat, out of shape, 4 wheel riding, beer belly, hunters would never make one kill. What challenge is it to be unseen and shoot from half a mile away? What a bunch of cowards.

To hide a hunter

Brad, Columbus, OH — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:23:46 GMT

How come I havent read any articles on the mass suicides by cows, chickens, turkeys, lambs, fish, etc. that so want to be food.

To hide a hunter

silvergoldsmith1 Milwaukee Wisconsin — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:23:50 GMT

Well, I wish that I could wear some Snow White camoflage today. I have to wear the Blaze Orange again. There is a 4 day Antlerless only hunt that starts today and ends on Sunday. There is at least a foot of snow and it is 20 Degrees outside.Needless to say, I will not be hunting naked, and I won't be wearing fur.I will hunt and harvest another Doe Deer and I will Butcher it myself. Maybe if I am lucky enough to get one I can Buy another Two Dollar tag and hunt again this weekend. To all of you who think that hunting is not necissary, you should find a place in the outdoors and watch the animals trying to find food when there is three feet of snow. They can starve too. That is a mean way to die. You should go to a food pantry and watch the people who lost their jobs in this economic crisis.It is not pretty. They can use some food too. Did you donate anything? Put your money where your mouth is. It takes more than Macaroni and Cheese to stay healthy. I Donate, Do You? In order for you to match my Donations you would have to buy 50 pounds of steaks or 150 Dollars of food and Donate it all to a food pantry. Can YOU do that? I did. I could use some new camoflage but I see the need to help people more than I need the new camoflage.My Mossy Oak works good for my archery hunting.When Gun Deer Season is open here, we have to wear the Blaze Orange. it is safe when there are 600,000 hunters out there. Look at the wisconsin DNR website. There are those of you, like the LTM (little testicle man) who think it is macho to hunt. Go spend 1/2 of your paycheck to Donate to a food pantry. Put up or shut up.

To hide a hunter

Dan, East Lansing — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:25:48 GMT

A certain area of land can only support so many deer. If the deer herd becomes too large for the land to feed, they starve. Starving is much more painful than bullets. But before they starve, they strip much of the plantation bare destroying the habitat. This further lowers the carrying capacity of the environment so the land can support less and less. Don’t believe me. Go to this MSNBC article about how not enough deer are being killed by hunters so deer are changing the ecology of our forests and even raiding tree nurseries-- http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6835501. It also says how the deer population is now 30-35 per square mile compared to only 15 before European settlement.

So, apparently some of you are vegetarian. Or maybe you’re just morally superior to us because someone else killed your cow for you. Yes, that hamburger used to be a cow; you may not have realized that.

Are you an evolutionist? Check your canines. Do you think those are for turnips? Or are you a creationist? Just read your Bible if you think killing and using animals is wrong.

Yes, killing and eating deer is a natural thing to do, not a sick thing. Just because prettified boys have gotten away from what it really means to live with the wild (Native Americans didn’t do wildlife photography) and just because you’ve forgotten what human nature really is and what it means to be a man or a woman, doesn’t make us sick. Get out of the city sometime. Out of McDonalds.

To hide a hunter

John Doe, Bellevue — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:26:28 GMT

Hey Mike Doe of Seattle. Fair Fight? If a hunter stands low behind a rock, he/she is using camouflage. Would this be legal in your "fair fight?" What about crouch walking very slowly to reduce your physical outline and noise? Is this allowed or not?

To hide a hunter

Bryan, Austin, Texas — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:28:29 GMT

Hunting for sport can happen in the exact same hunt that brings you food, so how are they totaly different. You dont eat the rack!

To hide a hunter

J, B.C Canada — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:41:54 GMT

Most hunters I know are on the forefront of environmental protection. What would they do if all the natural ecosystems are gone? Sure, some hunters are idiots who shouldn't be in the bush, but the vast majority of them are responsible men and women who respect the back country immensely.

To hide a hunter

Joe the trucker — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:44:03 GMT

I didn't need this camouflage when I hit that deer with my truck. It came right to me with the bright lights and horns. Those deer are tricky geniuses. All this scientific study is just more pork barrel spending like bear dna.

To hide a hunter

silvergoldsmith1 milwaukee wisconsin — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:51:13 GMT

I'm in favor of a fair fight. No weapons, no camoflauge for either side. May the best species win.
Mike Doe, Seattle, WA (Sent Thursday, December 11, 2008 5:49 AM)

PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH have a battle with a deer and you could lose, they are NOT defensless. I had to catch a raccoon that bit me while I was changing a flat tire. That was not fun killing a 40 pound raccoon with my bare hands. it was tested and found to have distemper. 7 injections and 60 days later I got well. Think before you talk. There is a girl who picked up a bat in a church and she got bit and got rabies. she is the first person to survive that in 50 years and she had a hard time with it. The animal rights fanatics put out so many "feel good" cartoons that kids think that all animals are like Bambi. Look it up it was in Fon Du Lac Wisconsin. True story. This article is about a new camoflage and some fanatic got on the anti-hunting kick again. Why can't you people do something constructive? like donate to a food pantry.

To hide a hunter

Todd, PA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:53:45 GMT

I hunt and wear camoflage. This is cool stuff.
I wear a suit to work during the week so I don't fit the sterotype that has been mentioned. I eat anything I have hunted for and so does my family. Deer meat is one of the best sources of low cholesteral meet available. When they start selling it in the store cheaper than my hunting license I will probably buy it. Some people just need to get over their squeamish little selves and realize reality. My meat comes from the woods, not from a stall.

To hide a hunter

Bill Hilburn, Stockton, Ca. — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:56:44 GMT

I am 54 and I have hunted for game for my table since I was 12. Anyone who thinks that it is wrong for me to kill animals to eat, should come to my spread and watch me kill turkeys, chickens and pigs for the same table. I had a anti-hunting friend named Greg come over for big Sunday supper for several folks from church. He arrived early and ended up coming out back to see me kill a couple of fat hens. He was not upset to watch me chop the heads off the birds, then clean them and pluck them, but would not help me because he "could not do these things without getting sick". He said that watching me do the work was almost more than he could stand. Well if watching me kill chickens almost pushed him over the edge, he would have a hissy fit if he saw the video tape of the last elk I took in Idaho. The hypocracy of people like Greg is amazing. He sat at my table and ate the chicken he would not help kill and clean. If I had roasted some wild boar I had shot outside Salinas, and told him it was from a hog I had raised it on my spread, he would have gladly chowed down on the pork. I think that with the exception of the complete vegetarians, anyone who eats meat and criticizes hunting are self delusional idiots who will eat the meat, as long as as it's killed in a packing house and not in the wild. Anyone who has ever been in and walked the kill floor of a packing house, or seen the abominable places where animals slated for the kill floor are raised, would rightly want to become vegetarians. Each mouthful of meat eaten at my table is either from animals I raised on my own land, or from animals I hunted in fair chase. The only time I have ever hunted and killed something I did not eat was an Alaskan Brown Bear, but the meat went to the closest Inuit community and provided meat for them to get through the winter. If you don't think hunting is right, then instead of buying your meat wrapped in plastic at the grocery store, go out and buy live chickens, pigs, and cows; kill them, butcher them, and eat them. That way you won't be a complete hypocrite.

To hide a hunter

Ken Riley, Robertsville, MO — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:58:43 GMT

Eating meat is murder...tasty, tasty murder.

To hide a hunter

George James — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:00:16 GMT

It is widely considered in archeological circles that hunting is responsible for the development of the large human brain when Homo Sapiens first ventured out onto the African Savannah. Requiring increased cooperation and coordination (in the hunt) in order to survive. So, it could be said that hunting is responsible for who we are. It is ironic that this allows some to question, or even deny,our
evolutionary history!
As for inhumane treatment of domesticated livestock; this is a very very small portion of the industry. Simply, it just doesn't pay to abuse or mistreat livestock as it adversely affects "the bottom line."

To hide a hunter

CY — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:01:24 GMT

In the shape the economy is right now, you better believe I will go out with my husband and children to learn to hunt for food, as well as; go foresting for food. I will not watch my children starve to death, and I will not take the lazy persons way out by stealing from another. Those of you against hunting may end up resorting to eating your dogs, cats, or other pets(or your neighbors)when you get hungry enough and haven't the money to buy your food, because they will be easy to catch. In my opinion that would be more barbaric than controlling wild animal populations, which is nesessary. If a person were to have a low income, hunting to feed your family might be the only way they would get to eat meat. Were you aware that free lunches at many schools are made with meat of a lower quality grade of meat than canned dog food.
I'm not so sure I would call those who dislike hunting, hippies, that would be like calling all city dwelling persons Yuppies, abit stereotypical. My 17 yr. old daughter is a tree hugger, however she would also gladly learn the skills to hunt to help ensure our families survival. She has also stated that she would give up her Koi that she's raised since they were about 3 inches long and is deeply attached to, for food if the need arose. The dilegence and time she put in raising them all organically without any chemicals, a very mature decision on her part- and these are her babies, her tame pets. It all boils down to instinct, survival. Why should we let our past ways of survival die out? If hunting skills die out, mankind eventually dies out. If grocery stores are gone tomorrow are you preparred? We are to civilized when it becomes wrong to get your food somewhere other than the store. You think all those preservatives, hormones and antibiotics that are pumped into your beef in one form or another are good for you? Maybe your just lucky and don't suffer a migraine and vomit when you eat pork. America's weight problem, and associated health problems didn't arise at such alarming rates until our diets were begotten via the convenience of checkout lanes or drive throughs.
Deer aren't so helpless, they can smell you, and hear you. If the new Gorewear aids us in our survival by making sustenance more easily obtained, I see no problem with it. I'd put makup all over my exposed skin, paint on my clothes, and smear smelly plants on myself to aid me make a kill to make sure we ate.
Open your mind, maybe someone will open their heart and share their kill with you to ensure your survival as well, and then; maybe they will teach you to hunt for yourself. Everything isn't always black or white-there are many, many shades of grey.

To hide a hunter

Truth is the Answer — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:08:04 GMT

I agree with many activists that animals raised for food are often treated very poorly, and the meat is often tainted with drugs and hormones when it reaches our table. Meat is a luxury we have in the developed world, and the extra food it takes to make that grain fed beef tenderloin on your plate is food that isn't feeding starving humans who were unfortunate enough to be born in less developed countries.

At some point in time we will have to stop wasting perfectly good plant based foods fattening our animals. I hope it happens now, so we can feed all the people of the world. As Americans, we are too selfish and lazy for this to be realistic. Instead, we will eventually have to stop when our neighbors (and their constitutional right to bear arms) start to starve. Then, you can kiss that fancy meat goodbye.

When we reach the point where feeding livestock means starving americans, then we will be very glad for our well managed wildlife. At a point in the not too distant future we will need to eat animals that are fed off of land that we can't otherwise feed humans from. Forests and grasslands with poor soil can feed animals that can feed us. Meat will be a luxury, and hunters will be important to society once again.

Hunting wild animals is an important part of our food supply. I am not a hunter, but I do understand that we as humans are stripping the planet of its resources like a swarm of locusts. Agriculture is becoming strained, and adding new cultivated lands is further straining on our environment. Eventually, we will all wish we knew how to hunt, and hope that we have preserved enough wild lands that the wild animal population can help support us.

Wake up, people!

To hide a hunter

Kerry Green River, Wyoming — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:12:09 GMT

I live in Wyoming, fish and hunt with my wife, 18 year old son and 12 year old daughter. We have enjoyed eating, trout, catfish, bass, rabbit, grouse, pheasant, deer, elk, buffalo and bear. (The bear was a little less enjoyable.) In spite of a very short growing season, we have also managed to harvest and eat a number of other living things like peas, corn, pumpkin, beets, radishes and chili peppers. When we buy meat it is usually from a ranch and raised on free range. We have concerns about feedlot beef knee deep in their own excrement, pumped with antibiotics and hormones, fattened with feed that includes animal parts considered inedible by humans, and killed in a slaughter house. My wife and I are professionals, my kids are accomplished students, musicians, athletes and dead shots with a pistol, rifle, or shotgun. Maybe Joan could define "most normal people" for the rest of us.

To hide a hunter

Doe, Baltimore, MD — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:13:09 GMT

That's neat and all, but is it necessary? I know successful hunters who don't need to buy expensive gear to hunt deer. Maybe more should be done to encourage hunters to get the deer where they are overpopulated, like in suburban areas. I think that would probably reduce the amount of roadkill.

I don't think hunting makes the world a "bloodier place". Think about it. Would you rather be hit by a car and eaten alive by vultures, or shot in the head, immediately killed, and eaten by hunters? Roadkill is huge problem here, and I just wish there were more responsible hunters to keep the deer in check.

To hide a hunter

JJ — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:15:58 GMT

re Bruce Illinois - "If it was just the suit, then I guess that means anyone putting on a 300 dollar armani suit would then be considered a lawyer! "

$300 armani? where do you shop!?

To hide a hunter

EMAL7717, york pa — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:27:22 GMT

Last night I canned 12 pints of Venison Vegetable Soup. Mmmmm Mmmmm Good! The deer was shot at 135 yards with a 6.5mm Mauser sporting a 140 grain round travelling at 3100 feet per second. It required 1 shot in ther neck/shoulder area to dispatch the animal. Yummy is all I can say.

Now to the vile anti's here. I moved to PA where the anti's have prevented hunting in several areas near where I live. the deer are non existant or suffering from Bovine encepholopothy. "Cronic wasting disease"
Sports Men and Women pay the bill so you can enjoy your bike trails, metro parks and every other outdoor activfity you enjoy.

To hide a hunter

Alan T. Montreal, QC — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:31:40 GMT

I just think that when our Grandfathers and those before hunted. They did not need Hi-Tech. They hunted for real.
It's just these modern lazy-ass hunters that want everthing to be so easy. Why don't they just hook a rifle to a web-cam and shoot the deer from the comfort of their sofa with a can a beer in one hand and a bag of chips in the other? Watching the fun of the hunt on a Wide screen TV while sitting their wide-behind in a lazy-boy.

To hide a hunter

PA hunter — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:34:43 GMT

Interesting that noone has mentioned that this improved camo will actually allow the hunter to be closer to the animal therefore enabling he/she(US!) to make a more effective killing shot.

To hide a hunter

crosshairs — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:36:26 GMT

That's strange, I've hunted deer, birds, and all kinds of African game, and ate as much as I could of each(of course, our silly import laws meant that I had to eat any of the African game there, and give the rest to locals, which they thanked me for graciously). Never once did I hunt to be manly, but because I have the predator instinct in my genes, my teeth alone prove that. For those poor soles that think killing and eating animals is wrong, I feel very, very sad for you, for you most likely have gotten so far away from the natural reality that you think you are not one of the animals, and only have a domesticated view of what nature really is about and how it works. You probably also are totally unaware that just you walking this planet and living in any sort of dwelling in the modern world, you've indirectly killed more animals than you could count, you just choose not to acknowledge that though, because it's convenient to do so. I'd love to throw a few of you out into the wild and see how you fare, within a few days you would be eating anything your mind would automatically tell you is food, like it should be, and animals would then be placed properly in their place in your mind, as food.....

To hide a hunter

Mike M, Philadelphia, Pa — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:39:56 GMT

If hunting is a “sport” and the hunters insist on using all this high tech equipment, where’s the sport?

To hide a hunter

Bill — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:42:29 GMT

I was raised in East Texas as a kid and there were few deers and even fewer wolves and other animal of this type...Lots of farms, ranches, and such. Today there are fewer farms and ranchers are having a hard time hanging on. Deer have come back by the numbers. Wolves and cayotes are increasing in number year by year. On just about any week I can stand on my back yard and see anywhere from 5 to 10 deer grazing with my livestock out in my pasture.....If anybody know anything about the food chain you can see the logically direction of things. Many of these animal are not very socialably to people. Where one is you will find the other. Population control is the best solution for control for the animal from starvation and sickness. Hunting seems the better way...

To hide a hunter

Linda, Dade City Florida — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:43:49 GMT

I don't hunt. But I understand the need for it. God gave us dominion over the earth and it is our responsibility to care for it. That includes hunting. Every plant and animal is alive at some point. So, do we all stop eating, or living? What about the trees we kill to build our homes, or the salad tomatoes, or what about mother Earth herself as a living thing? Some people need a good education on what would happen if we all stopped eating meat and killing plants--or maybe they just need to hit a deer with their car to understand. We don't torture them...we just eat them.

To hide a hunter

Jenn — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:49:50 GMT

I agree with DAVID. Why waste resources trying to develop better ways to KILL a living creature. Truly a discrace to humanity.

To hide a hunter

Jim Jeffress, Brenham, Tx. — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:58:55 GMT

If ifs and butts were candy and nuts we would all have a merry christmas. Hunt it, kill it, skin it, cook it and eat it. Camo just makes you more efficient in the process. Any "man" who wants someone (the government)to give him everything he needs will only find that they (the govenment) will take everything he has. An armed man is a free citizen, an unarmed man is a subject.

To hide a hunter

lollypop — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:11:20 GMT

hmmm....
well, there always 2 sides to everything--especially technology.
i wonder, hey the white supremacists use the computer & internet...but aren't most of the components made overseas and/or by minorites???

or how about the muslim terrorists wackos using blackberries, internet, in an attempt to DESTROY others. case of what technology can do in the hands of wrong minds

or heck, we peoples are just wayyyy overpopulated, so any thing we make can end up destroying us (humankind), so i guess its kind of like a population check, as so many posters here seem to think controlling deer overpopulation is a good enough reason to use technology to kill the overpopulated beasts.

as the old saying goes, what goes around comes around. it's going to take great minds and great compassion (for both humans & animals alike) to save our planet. but a way to save this planet may very well be to "control" the human overpopulation. which is being done right now. by us humans.

To hide a hunter

Eric kruger Warner Robins Ga — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:12:26 GMT

remember it is called hunting and not shooting deer
you may think it is as simple as walking in the woods and shooting an animal and going home. Well remember you are in there home and they are the master we arre the student. There is nothing more beautiful than watching a doe with her fawn watching a racoon rummage around seeing turkeys feed and strut. When you do get lucky and see a deer to shoot then we take it. the wild turkey was almost extinct and was brought back by hunters not you do gooders you talk alot of S@#t but do nothing tangeble. My donations to the state and buying a hunting license has insuered that all species will continue to thrive and flourish. The coyote is one of the most adaptable animals out there, they eat dogs cats deer cows horses goats you name it. if we donot hunt them and keep them in check then they will devastate the wildlife and domestic animals around. I would like to see the look on Davids face if his precious little yorkie being devoured by a wolf or coyote. Dont condemn for my beliefs and heritage my family has hunted all the back thru history both men and women and my Grandfather was a game warden in the great state of Maine and saw first hand what happens when the population is out of control. So you eat your greens and i will eat my red meat!

To hide a hunter

Dick - Manitowoc, Wisc. — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:15:58 GMT

I hunt as a sport as well as for meat. I live on fish and wild animals as well as wild fruit and vegetables. I had the chance to see a slatter house once, we hunters, are humane killers not like the ones that supply the stores. Humans are pretors, look in the mirror - are your eye on the side of your head? This world is taking away habitad for the animals and they have to be controled through hunting and in a few cases relocation. We, humans, are both the problem and the cure. Look at whe world, we think nothing about killing an enemy at war, but Bambi "has" to be protected to the point of starvation which is not a clean quick way to die like a bullet or even an arrow. A car hit, might be a slow painfull death, again unlike a bullet or arrow. Move your fancy country home into the city and give the deer and other animals some room that they need to live. Leave a few rows of corn and a square of soy-bean so the wild animals and birds can eat. People are the problem as well as the salution to the human made troubles the wild life has today. Like said PETA equils one thing People Eating Tasty Animals. And clean healthy meat at that!! Have a good at Big Mac's.

To hide a hunter

Holly, Morrisville, PA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:21:46 GMT

Wow. I am a 30 yr old female who has hunted with my family since I was 12. My father took all 3 of his daughters out. And now my husband, brother in law all hunt. And my 3 yr old son loves going into the woods (not during hunting season obviously) to look for deer. I never consider hunting a sport-it was time spent with our dad to help put food on the table. When we hunt, it is not about antlers or the "size" of a deer. We hunt a variety of wild game including turkey, squrriel, rabbit, pheasant, and whitetail deer. And it is ALL used as food.
I would much rather eat vension knowing it came from the wild than the "processed" meat we buy at the store.
I think a lot of people just put it out of their minds where their meat comes from.
You are going to have idots on both sides of the hunting issue-morons like David to the hunters who go out drunk and just randomly shoot anything that moves.
I am very proud of my hunting hertiage and plan on continue hunting and passing it onto my children (due with a little girl in April).
To this article-I have NEVER used camo while hunting. I usually only go during rifle season when it is requried to wear a buttload of balze orange. But it is a great concept for those who bow hunt, etc.

To hide a hunter

Joey, Miami Beach, FL — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:22:20 GMT

Meat is MURDER!!! Tasty, tasty murder.

Listen up everyone… we all have our views. Everybody does. Individuals need to remember that everyone isn’t exactly like them.
We all have a different view of life, and what’s most important is that we enjoy it. Doesn’t matter if you’re a vegetarian or a carnivore. It’s our basic human right, to enjoy life as each individual wishes. So long as you don’t harm any PERSON in the matter, and so long as you can be humane as possible, take only what you can eat, and eat what you take… DO IT!!!

Stop wasting time complaining about things that don’t really effect you, and get a life! There’s so much to do, and so little time to do it, enough of the whining, and go find something that YOU like to do and do it. Leave everyone else alone. Unless you like to complain as a hobby, in which case… go on ahead with your bad self.

Appreciate and respect each others’ differences. Tolerance of others only brings peace. It really is that simple.

To hide a hunter

Bill M, NY — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:26:13 GMT

wow, awesome camo. The pattern could be transfered to a safety vest too, making it a little safer too.

As for the anti-hunting crowd, i know my group and many others spend our summers not only preparing for the season, marking trails, and scouting, but also cleaning up trash and other debris left behind by the hikers and vacationers. That is real environmentalism, not buying carbon credits to feel better while you run your air conditioners.

Good responses from everyone here. And that pattern is really nice.

To hide a hunter

Jack Jikes — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:26:24 GMT

From the Coloseum of antiquity, to Spain's bull rings, to the pit-bull and cock fights, to bear and bull baiting, to the rodeo-circuit, the evidence is blatant that people enjoy watching and participating in the torture, killing and humiliation of animals. Hunters are a zealous part of this culture of cruelty. Wounded animals with their attendant agonizing deaths are a commonplace.

To hide a hunter

Michael Smith, White House, TN — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:28:11 GMT

I was raised by a military Father 21 years, then I went in the military for 21 years. Neither of us had this type of effective camouflage. Had we neither of us would have had the injuries we received while fighting for this great nation of ours. While those in uniform do have it now, that is good.

Being a long time hunter myself I see that those that have never been there are always the first ones to complain about something they never have tried. Walk awhile in those combat boots, or hunters boots and find out first hand what is is like. Then complain, if you must.

At least those that know how to provide can, those that can't will be looking for those that will. Are you a provider or a complainer?

To hide a hunter

Jason — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:32:29 GMT

You people bitching about torturous treatment of cattle don't have a clue what you're talking about. My family has farmed and raised cattle for generations and our cattle and the vast majority of cattle raised for beef in the country are not "mistreated". They live high on the hog for their short lives and die instantly when the time comes. If only all of us could be so lucky. There is no canabalism going on in the US in the beef industry... for one thing it's not easily done and is AGAINST THE LAW. Obviously, some moron out there could try it, but the generalities being thrown about in these comments just show what an ignorant bunch of people most are.

To hide a hunter

Cory, Wisconsin — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:37:46 GMT

I've shot 5 deer this year so far and they all are being eaten, and 2 are going on the wall! I use a camo pattern from Mossy Oak and the deer never knew I was there. I do like this pattern though.

To hide a hunter

Andrew, New York — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:57:37 GMT

Everyone keeps complaining about David's comment, saying that hunting deer prevents overpopulation most of us eat meat anyway. True, and in my book hunting is okay. But he also says "How about using tech to make the world a better place, instead of a bloodier one? " How much money was spent to make a hunting so suit? Was the goal of this suit really to prevent deer overpopulation? I don't think so. I think the money spent in developing this product was motivated by profit, profit gained by people killing animals, for whatever reason, sport or food. What if this money was spent on schools, or food for the homeless? What if the research was done on curing cancer, preventing HIV, or for something more relevant to this topic, spent on creating wildlife habitat preserves? Hunting maybe acceptable or even a good thing in many cases, but money spent on preserving habitat and helping our fragile environment would be better spend than n improved hunting gear. And hundreds of research hours could be better spent on helping us understand our fragile environment than on understanding how animals see in order to fool them and kill them.

To hide a hunter

Tom, Ohio — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:01:36 GMT

Hunting is not a sport! Basketball, baseball and ect are sports created to pass the time while filling the need for accomplishment. Who ever said killing a animal makes you a man or woman (in some cases)doesn't have a clue what a man or woman is. It has been a natural instinc for man and animals to hunt in order to survive since the beginning of time. People express their opion its cruel to kill a deer by shooting it, but what about the steer we just killed by shooting it in the the head,or slitting it's throat or sticking the electric cow prod up the a--. We are all greated equal in the eyes of God, and how you choose to live that life is your decision. I respect your decision not to hunt as long as you respect my decision to hunt, its part of my heritage. We The People have bigger problems to worry about... the homeless, the sick, the hungry, the abused children and people of this world. Use your energy and hate to solve these world problems ....it will take all of us a life time!

To hide a hunter

BILL ST. PETERSBURG FLORIDA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:12:53 GMT

I am a hunter, however for the most part my family is not so i am taking a neutral stance. i believewe need hunters and non hunters; could all you hunters out there imagine if every one in this country hunted all at once or the opposite ,if no one hunted and the population went out of control and starvation and disease would not only have the beautiful wildlife suffering, but it would eventually bring disease and starvation to our own kind.
The best way i believe to deal with tree huggers is not by argument but by example - unfortuanatly hunters are steriotyped by narrow minded people as all rednecks but at the same instance a vegan or anti hunter can be seen as all pot smokers because its from the earth.

To hide a hunter

Tony, Fort Worth, Texas — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:16:36 GMT

It's fine as long as they don't hunt endangered animals.

To hide a hunter

IHATEU, Miami FL — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:16:44 GMT

I think hunting is great if you really need to kill an animal to survive. But im not for or against hunting. I would try it someday. But i think Native Americans are the true hunters! This was there land originally.

To hide a hunter

Steve, Raleigh, NC — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:24:28 GMT

Considering the state of the world, Im thinking I need to get into hunting. I went a few times with my dad when we lived in Alaska. We ate the meet and they still have the caribou hide that he tanned himself.

To hide a hunter

Jeff Pitts, Dayton, OH — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:25:47 GMT

I find that killing with the rifle as opposed to chasing them down with an 1970 LTD (deer killing land barge) introduces 1/100th of the stress hormones as the later option and with the price of gas lately is much more efficient. I love meat and love camo.

To hide a hunter

Chris B — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:27:46 GMT

It's funny how the anti-hunters are always forced by the Government to view these stories.

What these people don't understand is there are very few Deer Hunters that hunt for SPORT! It's cuz they need to Deer meat to feed their families. Deer are dumb, it's not fun to hunt them, SPORT hunters like to hunt other predators because that is where the true Hunting for Sport is. So please do get off the computer and go hug your trees, they miss you.

To hide a hunter

Frenchy — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:28:37 GMT

Ah yes, "Fear and Stress" of the hunt. Well, only when hunted by HUMAN hunters that is. Just watch any of the animal shows and see the serene, blissful expressions of the zebra as the lion throttles it to death while the lion's pride-mates rip out it's liver while it's still alive. How relaxed the Zebra is knowing that a HUMAN is not it's killer. And how about the soulfull expression in the eyes of every seal as it is tenderly sliced in half by the Great White Shark. Why, death by disease and starvation must by second only to being struck by an automobile and crawling off into the brush with only your two front legs because your hips are crushed. Yes, THAT'S truely fear and stress free.

To hide a hunter

roga — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:30:02 GMT

Haha, stress hormones. What do you think years of crowded confinement, unnatural feeding, and industrial death does to meat? Judging from the steaks at the grocery store, it seems to make it fat.

Seriously - I consider anyone who eats meat but then turns around and demeans hunters as hypocrites. I don't hunt, but I'm intelligent enough to understand that the vast majority of hunters don't do it for some kind of testosterone-charged bloodlust. There's a complex of emotions and thoughts that goes with killing an animal for food or any other use, and coming to terms with this is part of being an animal yourself.

To hide a hunter

Bette, Mojave Desert — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:30:18 GMT

I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, it's because I hate vegetables.

Actually I'm not a vegetarian and this is a joke.

Temple Grandin, a very smart person who has autism, has designed slaughter houses so that the cows do not have so much fear during the process.

There is also something to be said for eating food locally developed, I believe it is called slow food, or the concept is part of the Slow Food 'movement'. It is what our ancestors did, of course, as they didn't have food shipped and trucked in from afar. Every sentient being is connected (actually all everything is connected), and fuel intake from 'food' created (grown, raised)in the same environment as the engine (our metabolism)is more efficient.

The day may come when we are cut off from non-local food sources. The idea to have a community garden, a dairy farm ala Grandin, chickens raised nicely, fruit orchard for every city and town is a idea that needs attending to now.

It's really all about interactions, human and otherwise, and our intent. I've a dream where our 'food' is raised/grown by us with such love that when it is time for dinner one could ask for volunteers, and a chicken would fall over dead. Maybe it would pluck itself first. That, of course, is a pipe dream, but as a goal it could only be good for all involved.

There is a lot of interaction here, how much of it is quality?

To hide a hunter

butcherblock — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:30:26 GMT

Mmmmm!!! Give me some venison with chronic wasting disease that's full of lead and has been dragged across the forest floor, left to the elements in the back of an open truck bed and cleaned and gutted on the oil stained floor of a garage. That's good eatin' way better than a "processed" steak that's been professionally butchered in a clean, sanitary, and inspected plant or butcher shop- ewww that's disgusting.

To hide a hunter

Mato Ska — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:37:34 GMT

"I am a card holding member of "PETA"...People Eating Tasty Animals
Eddie K, Columbus, GA (Sent Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:14 AM)"

Me too! The Ciddyfied folks that never communed in the Grand Theater of nature will never know the true meaning of their place in the world. I hunt for food and as I do, I enjoy the days spent just sitting on my arête watching the eagles and hawks soar below me.

Keeping the woods "Critter" free since 1776 and darned proud of it.

To hide a hunter

Stephen Glaser, Memphis, Tn. — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:38:47 GMT

I have no problems with hunting and animal management. But, there is something absolutely obscene
about this type of hunting. It strikes a sad note, and
reminds me of the movie "Predator" with Arnold Schwartzaneggar. Articulating the "how" and "why" this type of hunting is bad is difficult. Either one has sensitivity or doesn't. What else can be said for this type of taking advantage of others, in this case four footed creatures, this way.

To hide a hunter

Tad — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:39:30 GMT

There is a huge difference in killing an animal to eat and killing one as a sport.
Paul, Michigan (Sent Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:23 PM)
Not to the animal their isn't!

To hide a hunter

Exeder — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:39:46 GMT

Most of the world is hungry and will eat whatever it can kill. So no most of the normal world is not composed of animal rights types.

To hide a hunter

Scott, Texas — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:41:34 GMT

If you were ever to see a corporate farm and see where your grocery store meat come from, then you would NOT buy it. I do not agree with the way some hunt today, and years ago when I learned from my Father & Grandfather, hunting & fishing was a way of life, and an art of survival. Many today have deer feeders, have to have 4 wheelers, and hunt for trophies.. We ate our game. We were taught to be a very good shot, and make your first shot count. We learned not to take a shot if it wasn't one that would kill the first time. I live near Fort Worth, and take solace in the fact, that I can eat when the supply chain goes down, or our food supply is tainted by disease, or terrorists. My family will survive because I know how to hunt. I also know how to fish, and all I need is a piece of fishing line, and a hook.. No pole, no expensive tackle.. I can also light a fire without a match.. What all these pansies that are crying about animal rights fail to understand.. When you cannot buy your food at the store.. You are going to die of starvation.. MAybe that is a good thing, make these stupid pansy genes die off with you!! LOL

To hide a hunter

Jay, Miami, Florida — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:41:40 GMT

Someone who kills a precious animal is plain sick, evil and cowardly if they don't eat it.

Killing is not for pleasure or "trophies". If you wanna get with nature, then be natural.

I'm not for hunting. This year, I've personally seen ZERO animals where i live because of hunters wiping out deer and some other animals too, probably. They started last year which was the last time I saw any animals like deer, etc. It's kinda sad, not a single wild animal besides the regular old chipmunks, etc.

These hunters used the excuse that there were too many deer before they did their thing. Now, there are NONE. THANKS A LOT.

Also, it's so sad that various gadgets and high-tech camouflage are used to go after animals, especially when they're trying to mate or innocently looking for food. It seems like harassment taken to the extreme.

All this talk of food chain and stuff is a stretch. No animal populates to the extent humans have.

On the other hand, farmed animals are indeed usually mishandled and mistreated.

To hide a hunter

Greg Palermo — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:42:10 GMT

I love and care for my dog, enjoy all wildlife and respect nature and the environment. I thought this qualifies me as an animal lover. I also hunt & fish. After reading some of the comments, I've discovered I may be a cowardly, bloodthirsty, sadist with smaller than average genitalia. I'm hoping some of the other animal lovers will clarify some issues for me.

I feed three other families besides mine with the venison, but I enjoy hunting, so why does that make it all wrong?? Why are car collisions, predators or starvation kinder, less painful, or otherwise more acceptable ways to kill deer than a bullet?? Why is it OK to pay a butcher to kill caged animals for us to buy in a supermarket but cruel & inhuman to do it ourselves?? I don't especially like fur coats, but why is fur bad yet leather coats, belts & shoes are perfectly OK?? What do the animal lovers that aren't hypocrits wear on their feet or hold up their pants with?? and where do the others think leather comes from?? I don't get the penis connection at all, but mine's probably average size, so does this mean I'm somewhat less cowardly & bloodthirsty than most other hunters??

To hide a hunter

Heather, Chicago, IL — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:44:46 GMT

Lorna obviously has no idea of the process animals go through on those "humane" farms where most of the supply of meat for grocery stores comes from...talk about disgusting.

To hide a hunter

Charley, Alabama — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:46:11 GMT

Great article! But it failed to answer one question for me. Where can I buy some clothing using this new technology? We still have almost 2 months left in deer season here.

[ALAN ADDS: Good question... I wanted to focus on the pattern rather than advertise the wares, but since you asked, Sitka Gear is due to come out with the first retail clothing using the pattern ... in 2009. Here's more from Hunting Life about that aspect. I should advise folks that the Web page includes a picture of a deer that was taken by a hunter wearing Optifade clothing. That's just in case you're not crazy about pictures of dead animals.]

http://www.huntinglife.com/blog/detail/optifade-concealment-products-initial-thoughts

To hide a hunter

sam, Lewiston Maine — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:46:29 GMT

All,
I am a hunter from Maine, and I find huge disrespect to people saying such ludicrous things about people who like to hunt. I dont call my gay brother in law a "fag" just because he's gay. I also dont treat him differently. Hunting was bred in me, it is not simply something I fell into. That being said, I guess any woman that likes sex is a whore, any woman that cleans her house is a Maid and a manslave, and any man that doesnt hunt is simply just a pansy. We can prejudice each other until the end of time, and what comes of it? Tons of meaningless laws and rules to live by, fines for doing things that are innate human nature, and, like many have already stated, eventually death. What the hell does it matter if I am a hunter when you are six feet under? Glad none of the hunters replying to this message board are "trigger happy", and know where ya'll live, huh?

To hide a hunter

MsSVasan — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:06:46 GMT

It is amazing, these men are the same people who perhaps forgot to watch Bambi when they were growing up in a culture where Disney has used the amazing cruelty of humankind in some levels of poignant movies on the persepective of the gentle mouthless creatures as well.

Let LIVE & LIVE. When vegetararians eat food, they offer the pure vegetarian food to the Lord, so that the harm inflicted & karmic reaction of killing plants is mitigated & living beings can attain the loftier goals of attaining GOD's LOVE in Material Creation.

Karma is so subtle, it is hard to even think of all the darkness ones consciousness & soul is constantly covered by performing this very action of pulling a trigger, shedding the blood of innocent God's creation.

Who created these animals, let these rascals plant 1 leaf or grass with mere will..without any technology. If you cannot create life, then you have no right to take life as well...all creatures in animal kingdom, the herbivores generally like deer usually have highly heightened senses and awareness.

When you shed the blood of any innocent creature, just know that cause and effect of law of Material Forces is not too far behind.

Sad, that man has developed super man's intelligence but not the heart and soul consciousness. Truly living beings steeped in the darkest of existance in God's amazing Material Dark Creation of This Mind Boggling Expanse of Universe Formed in the Darkness of Space.. which is just a minor insignificant part of the Spiritual Skies...and poor man's senses are so deluded, arrogant, that this where & how their whole life revolves...in making technologies superior to kill innocent creatures in God's creation.

Wow !!! How more Pathetic can a civilization get.

To hide a hunter

Anthony, Harrison, AR — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:10:58 GMT

I aim this at both sides of the argument...respect the thoughts and ways of others! I know vegetarians and they don't condemn people or condescend to them because they eat meat or hunt...live and let live...or kill, whatever.

Hunters...chill out...your responses outnumbered your opponents nearly 10 to 1...you win. Stop overreacting and feeling cornered when someone has an opposing view. I have noticed this amongst hunter friends of mine. I choose not to hunt anymore and not to own guns...my choice and I pass no judgment on those who do hunt..I even enjoy the venison that they sometimes bring. But if it comes up that I don't like to hunt...they often take it as an affront to their lifestyle as hunters and get preachy...as many of you have. No one is attacking you...you have the guns....chill out.

To hide a hunter

Headshot, Utah — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:12:28 GMT

Peter, [...] In most places (there are a few exceptions), fluorescent orange is worn for rifle or shotgun hunting (where camouflage isn't as important, since an animal can be harvested at range. Camouflage is usually worn by bow hunters, who must be able to get very close (20 to 30 yards) to assure an effective kill. Most hunters are very conscientious about getting a "clean" kill, where the animal goes down quickly and with a minimum of pain. The new technology available to hunters only makes it easier to make a "clean" kill. No hunter that I know wants to wound an animal, because that normally means they will spend hours tracking an animal, with the possibility of many things going wrong in the meantime. Nobody wants to lose an animal after they have spent hours looking for it, and nobody wants an animal to suffer unnecessarily because of a poor shot.
Almost all hunters eat the meat of the animals they kill. They want the meat to taste as good as possible, and how an animal is killed and cared for after it is killed will have major impacts on the meats flavor and tenderness. There have been few times in my life (other than when I’ve killed insects or men) when I didn’t eat what I killed. Some vegetarians think themselves superior to omnivores because they don’t think they are causing pain. Well, just because we can’t hear a plant scream doesn’t mean it doesn’t feel some kind of pain when it is killed or has its fruits ripped off. If it is living, we should respect it. However, until mankind no longer has to eat the flesh of other species (whether that is animal or plant species).
This technology is actually quite far behind camouflage technology available to some special operations units. There is camouflage that makes a person look like the “predator” from the movie. Small plates with cameras and screens cause anyone looking to just see what’s behind the person. When they move, there is just a slight rippling effect due to distortion at the edges. Of course, that kind of camouflage is way outside the normal hunter’s ability to access (and probably always will be). The digital camouflage worn by the typical military member is a great improvement over what they used to wear, but is nowhere near leading-edge technology.

To hide a hunter

Lacy, Oklahoma City, OK — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:24:33 GMT

It's hilarious that people justify and defend hunting by saying we've always done it, it's a natural part of things, etc. and then use high powered rifles with laser sights and technologically designed camo. If you are meant to hunt, great. Go out naked and kill something with your hands, a stick or a rock.

I'm a vegetarian, by the way, and healthy, happy and probably skinnier than those of you who defend killing and eating meat!

To hide a hunter

Bob Smith, Henderson, Texas — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:39:08 GMT

I'm certainly glad we settled the issue of whether its Ok to hunt or not.
And since that's done and we won't EVER bring it up again,did anybody besides me suspect some of those "where are the hunter" pics? I think they put a hunter in the ones that had somebody else's clothes on. And just took their guy out of the picture altogether.
And I don't care how good your PATTERN is, if you wash it in Tide, you've just given it a nice UV bright glow.
WAsh any old clothes in UV killer and you are way ahead of the game w/o buying this new stuff.

To hide a hunter

Tony, Tucson AZ — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:39:42 GMT

I grew up hunting, and think it's an American tradition that we should protect. If people don’t care for hunting that’s OK, they don’t have to like it. As hunter's were not here to please them.

To hide a hunter

KIm C. — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:46:14 GMT

We rely on deer meat as our main source of meat throughout the year. I feel better eating it than processed meat...who knows what's in that stuff anymore?

To hide a hunter

Scott PA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:55:52 GMT

If we were all vegitarians, we would be killed by the animals that populate. Car accidents, disease, rabies, plagues, ect. We would have to take care of them by spending alot of taxes. Surely even more than we pay for our illegal aliens.

To hide a hunter

Ken, Bellingham, WA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:02:12 GMT

Ungulate herds have been exhaustively studied by many departments of wildlife and universities, and much is known about the cause of death. In a typical herd, about 30% will succumb to predation, and this is pretty evenly divided between humans and other predators. The rest of the herd succumbs to "natural causes". Now this may engender visions of Grandpa Buck on his death bed with the family gathered around, but in reality in nature "natural causes" mean starvation and exposure. (Less maybe the lucky 1% that have a tree fall on them or fall off a cliff.) Every hunter I know strives for a quick and clean kill, both out of respect for the animal and out of selfish interest in better meat. Far better that the inevitable death come that way than via long drawn-out suffering while starvation takes its toll.

To hide a hunter

j9 — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:06:07 GMT

I believe in the right to arm bears, myself. :)

Seriously, I think Mr. Boyle has blogged on a very interesting topic that probably has application beyond hunting..

To hide a hunter

Rose Lancaster, London, England — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:14:40 GMT

David, we have to hunt animals to survive, people need meat in their diet to survive and not be malnourished. If man did not hunt deer or any other animal their population would grow out of control and the world would be overcrowded with mindless beasts.
Humans are not barbaric for hunting the animals, we may have the technology to make better things to eat but get over the fact that we don't, because humans will continue hunting deer whether you like it or not.

To hide a hunter

deancc,Seattle, Wa — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:31:05 GMT

Say! Perhaps we can require our Congress and Senate members to wear this product. Right now,they don't do nothing,they don't know nothing...and now with this item they also will not be seen. One hell of a deal, don't you think?

To hide a hunter

Betty, Little Rock, AR — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:32:39 GMT

Excuse me, but what do they think a hunter is--human beings are a species of mammal in the ANIMAL KINGDOM--DUH!!! This is an excellent way of getting yourself shot by another hunter.

To hide a hunter

jennifer, ohio — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:55:34 GMT

Kent C., you are my new role model.

David, visit the real world once in a while.

Seriously; anyone who thinks hunting is unnecessary, or more cruel than other methods of procuring meat/controlling deer populations, is just plain not connected to reality. Know the outdoors, know deer, know conservation, and know hunters before you make those judgments. Also keep in mind that this is coming from a non-hunter near-vegetarian in an animal care career. If I'm on the pro-deer-hunting side of the fence, hunting detractors should wonder why they are not.

To hide a hunter

Jamie Rob, Smithfield, PA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:02:21 GMT

I had to slam on the brakes to avoid a deer last wk - skidded into the other lane which was empty. My brother's car was in the shop for several weeks after hitting one a few years back. One of my cousins hit one this year that required body work. His mother clipped one too about the same time. No serious injuries, but how long can our luck hold out?

To hide a hunter

STEVE,MORRISON, CO — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:05:50 GMT

Aldo Leopold in the '30s first came up with wildlife management. He viewed wildlife as a "crop" which must be harvested to prevent starvation, desease and other behavior related to over population. Studies have shown that over population of a species results in desease, ie rabies and plague not to mention aggresive behavior. Harvesting an animal for legitiment purposes is beneficial to the general specie population. As many hunters will tell you, at least 60-75% of their efforts go unrewarded, but it's nice to be outside and observe nature!

To hide a hunter

Paul Stanley — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:26:58 GMT

David, Go hug a tree and leave the true sportsman alone. Hunting, NOT killing, is a tradition since the dawn of time and there is NOTHING wrong with it at all!

To hide a hunter

Aekero — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:27:17 GMT

Yup, most hunters are evil people who "get off" on driving up to the peaceful serenity of a wooded land with heavy artillery to bombard Bambi and his mother to kingdom come....

Oh yeah, also they didn't vote for Obama.

/sarcasm off

Please indulge in stereotypes a little bit less, hunters have to apply for the right to hunt a deer, which is regulated based on population. I don't hunt but I know plenty of smart, down to earth people who do, they hunt for food, and once a year. Yes, I'm sure there is a "thrill of the hunt" feeling, but maybe that comes from the satisfaction of knowing they have food for their families hmm? Unless you're a vegan you're a freakin hypocrite by the way, and I guess this forum is a good outlet to cry about omnivores. Or is slaughtering cows much more humane?

To hide a hunter

Jess, San Diego, CA — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:29:21 GMT

I think it's safe to say there are alot of misconceptions and generalizations being thrown in here as '2 cents worth'. I think we all just need to respect that everyone has thier own ideas and as neither hunting or vegetarianism are illegal, no one is wrong.

To hide a hunter

Sam, MD — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:38:08 GMT

I agree with Rob, Hunting is in history. Not only that but hunters help the deer population so there isn't an over abundance. Which means less being hit and causing car accidents. Instead they are being eaten or donated to shelters. At least I know where my meat is coming from. It's not being beaten,starved, pumped full of steroids or dropped on the butchers floor before making it to my grocery store. And for the record, women hunt too. So go ahead, come on over and see just how big my genitals are!

To hide a hunter

Jim, Minnesota — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 23:49:20 GMT

Lorna, David
as T.McQuade,St.Maries,Idaho reminds us that man has made the decision to return the Grey wolves back to nature and the national part system so we have something else to make us feel good about and give the tree huggers something else to hold on to. If you think a second or third shot to finish an animal off is disgusting you need to make a trip to Yellowstone in spring to watch the wolf packs disembowel the pregnant cow elk so they can get at the new unborn tender calves. After such a visit I would expect a more positive response for technology that helps man do his job of hunting more efficiently, if that is what he chooses to do.

To hide a hunter

bill,goodridge,MN — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:01:20 GMT

ok dont got me wrong but i hate deer with a passion its not the fact that its one of gods anamals its because in the last three years i have hit five deer costing my ins. co. over ten thousand dollers and putting me on high risk because of it costing me a lot more money for ins. per year. I am a hunter and i do beleave in gods ways I dont thimk they should be shot just too be killed there pop. needs to be controled if we dont control it nature will i have had live deer ten feet of me and with them not knowing i was there is very thriling and i did not kill it because it was not the one that i wanted so i let it go as far as better camo goes please make it better

To hide a hunter

Jennifer, San Jose, CA — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:01:50 GMT

It's great that some of you mentioned conservation. When you take hunter's safety prior to getting a license, you learn that more than 90% of the money provided for conservation of these animals comes from sales of licenses, tags, firearms and ammunition. It's not the Sierra Club (though every bit counts) protecting these animals populations, it's sportsmen.

To hide a hunter

Hillary, Sacramento, CA — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:21:46 GMT

I read a bumper sticker once that read "Vegetarian: Indian word for 'bad hunter'..." I still haven't stopped laughing. I am female...hear the roar of my gun. The camoflauge is pretty cool, mine is outdated, but useful.

To hide a hunter

Geo Burro — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:36:18 GMT

Looks like a decent amount of research went into this product. Equal that with your hunt and I bet you will be successful. And may I add don't waste your time with replies to non players here, it would be like talking nascar to a tree.

To hide a hunter

Not-A-Redneck-Woman — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:45:11 GMT

I'm an educated woman who hunts. I think this technology is awesome. To those of you who get it...I'm with ya'll 100%! To those of you who don't ...one day you will. With the way the economy is going, I know I won't be hungry! Oh, Kent...can I invest in your company??? LOL!

To hide a hunter

Charles (an eye doctor) Denver, CO — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:55:16 GMT

Someone didn't do their homework (or use common sense)...Humans have more than 120 degrees field of view. In fact, humans have slightly more than 180 degrees lateral field of view (both eyes - this is how you are assessing the deer's vision) and about 150 degrees field of view height-wise. You can verify this with just a set of fingers and some logical thinking..seems the author assumed and you know what happens when assumptions are made.

[ALAN ADDS: Yes, I assumed what I was told was true. ;-) I do see there are references on some encyclopedia sites (and not just Wikipedia) that human field of view is 140 degrees for binocular vision and nearly 180 for forward-facing field of view. I definitely cannot see my fingers at the 180-degree reach, but the fact that I'm desperately myopic and wear smallish glasses may have something to do with that. I'll amend the item to reflect a bigger number for human field of view, thanks for calling that to my attention.]

To hide a hunter

Stanley Lucas, Macclenny, Fl — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:57:46 GMT

Well, before the automobile or supermarkets the only way to get meat for the average person was to hunt or fish. It didn't matter whether you liked it or not, it was the only way and a lot of days you would come home empty-handed. So it was a chore like any other.
I think most people who slaughter animals whether by hunting or slaughterhouse do try to kill the animals in the most humane way possible. I live and work in a rural area and I see ranches with cows with big wide pastures who are well-treated. I also know hunters and they aren't crazed foaming at the mouth types just wanting something to kill. At least from the hunters I know, they add some beef fat to their hunted meat else the meat would be too stringy. So they aren't superior or inferior to their ranching cousins.
My gut feeling is that most people hunt or fish just to get outside and enjoy nature; whether they come back with anything is somewhat beside the point.

To hide a hunter

Ed — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 01:23:32 GMT

Re: "I think that people who get off on killing animals are pretty sick. And to use technology to help them is truly an evil waste of a good mind. How about using tech to make the world a better place, instead of a bloodier one? "

This statement is one of pure ignorance. I do not happen to be a hunter (I don't like game) but some people like the flavor so what is the harm in making the taking of game in a safe humane manner? We all eat something. A lettuce leaf was just as alive as a deer or a cow or a chicken. Get an education that doesn't come from some fantasy book or a disney movie.

To hide a hunter

Mike, Georgia — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 02:04:31 GMT

Hunting is my GOD given right, as long as I respect and appreciate the animals. David, I hope you might try it sometime before you comment. You will sound more intelligent and less like a PETA representative.

To hide a hunter

Rob, Maryland — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 02:35:33 GMT

The ANTI-Hunters are sooo mis-informed.....its sad to a hunter like me to see me put in that group and be prejudged....

To hide a hunter

Russ Bakersfield, California — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:01:42 GMT

LTM and Other Fanatics: If it were not so sad to see this dash of utter stupidity of a few, it could be humorous. Unfortunately it is not a laughing matter. Sure, I am a proud hunter and I even raise my own beef. I have dedicated more time, energy and money in wildlife preservation than LTM has even thought of in his pitiful life. My cattle are extremely well taken care of. And I appreciate every bite of that Wagyu beef, vennison, or wild bird including dove, quail, ducks and geese. I am also a dedicated public servant! What I do saves lifes and helps people in need every day. So if you want to compare genitals, I guess we can do that - and then what? What's the point?

My point is that we need to get back to core values and what really matters for our society and freedom. This camo article was very interesting! It's getting a tad warm now, so I need to take off my camo coat :)

To hide a hunter

Lauren, Wrangell Alaska — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:04:32 GMT

I suppose its best to repect the feelings of both the hunter and the ones who would rather eat soybeans. Myself I live in remote Alaska and hunting here is more then just some sport, its a lifestyle. I also own a commercial fishing boat and I suppose I "hunt" salmon to sell to the cannery so non salmon hunters can have some. So next time you non-meat eaters get into your SUV and drive down to the over priced organic co-op to buy your veggies please keep in mind that some people do still live in a log cabin, heat with wood, haul water from the creek, don't have a TV, read books from the light of an oil lamp, can all their food because they have no electric power for a freezer, sh*t in an outhouse out back and when we see a deer we see 175lbs of good low fat food for the winter.

To hide a hunter

Michael , Outdoors in Minnesota — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:07:43 GMT

TO Adirondac Alicia--Bully foy you-- Well said,and I see no reason to add more-"Hunter Michael" from the great HUNTING state of Minnesota!! PS I've also hunted in your part of the world and found it as great and beutiful as I've ever seen

To hide a hunter

Carl Sundstrom, Gillette, WY — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:41:04 GMT

If you have issues about hunting, and you have courage AND integrity, then read the book: In Defense of Hunting, by James A. Swan, (HarperSanFrancisco) ISBN 0062510290. This book will rock your thinking if it is based on the pseudo-intellectual emotionalism the anti-hunting community uses.

To hide a hunter

MsSVasan — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:48:22 GMT

If better camouflouge is a supportive arguement for deer hunting & deer population to be kept at check, then why is not that arguement presented in the Serengati.. There the wildbeasts roam the plains in great numbers. Their only major threats other than predators(the crocodiles, lions other animals which do kill these animals in good numbers) are lack of rain(drought seasons) Here we see animals and nature creating the balance.

For man to give the arguement that it is a way to keep the deer population in check is an argument left just as a theory & not really factual. Nature takes care of it's own without man's intervention in the most amazing of spectacles.

Man using gun is more primitive than the so called cave man using a spear.....Not much has changed in the western civilizations which assumes man evolved from Neanderthals & Caveman and apes to so called modern day man in this civilzation of sophisticated animals.

NEXT, the INVENTION WILL BE BETTER PLUTONIUM HYDORGEN BOMBS TO ERADICATE KILLER ANTS OF SOUTH AMERICA infesting the southern states.

Way to go with Technology....!!! Not sure whether to laugh @ modern mans foolishness & his delusion of his superior intelligence.

To hide a hunter

leigh denman hagerstown maryland — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:05:09 GMT

some people took ofense to camo. artical.let me say that because of developments and lose of habitat in jefferson county west virginia they now have the highest rate of car and deer accidents on east coast.aproxitmitly 8 to 9 billion dollars crop damage each year caused by DEER.wonder why you are paying more for groeries.please please use common sense when discussing a topic.it is easy to confirm my figures,go to the department of agriculture.or w.v. dot.leigh hagerstown md.

To hide a hunter

Dan Shirey — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:17:52 GMT

If we don't hunt using this method, we could let the deer population increase and just hit them with our cars. Think of the advantages. Its much easier because there's less exercise and you don't need to clean or load them into your vehicle...

To hide a hunter

Molly, Stillwater, MN — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:27:32 GMT

Deer in many places (especially MN, where I'm from) are completely over-populated. While I'm not a hunter myself, hunters help keep the deer population from becoming out of control and ruining many valuable parts of the ecosystem. They are also killed quickly and barely feel anything, a good hunter also kills animals who are in pain and dying. While you can choose to not eat meat, the hunting of deer and other like species is needed for our ecosystems to survive and keep in balance, please do not put down hunters for things done wrong.

To hide a hunter

MsSVasan — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:33:10 GMT

Ed your comment shows your lack of education. Animals have evolved consciousness. There is no safe & humane way of killing. Killing is violent & is never humane.

The animals sensitivity to pain is much as human beings. All you hunters & pathetically depraved souls who need to eat the flesh of a murdered animal in whatever way...whether it is a sweet baby calf (snatched away from it's mother and left in crowded conditions)& then butchered to be eaten as veal or hunting a wild animal truly shows the lack of evolution & your lack of conscience. Man does not have the kind of teeth naturally found in animals which are able to digest tear the meat & digest the meat...I've yet to see a civilization which will eat raw flesh of the Butchered / Murdered Animal.

One has to still prepare that butchered flesh of the animal. One cannot eat it raw. Man was not devised to be a carnivore. Man does not have the same teeth like lions & tigers or crocodiles.

Ed, kindly spare your comparison of Lettuce & animals. That comparison is so ridiculous that even a first grader would have better knowledge of the difference between plants and animals in regards to the levels of consciousness and the ability to feel pain...plants vs animals...plants pain receptors are not like animals or human beings. Their nerve conducting stimuli is not even present. The processing of nutrients & sunlight is based only on molecular structure. There is no nerve impulses & receptors to transmit their pain sensation. Even if in some levels there is, it is so minute that it pales immediately when compared to the animal kingdom and of course humans.

Lettuce, greens & plants are living beings...but their consciousness is not like that of the next in the heirarchy of beings in this material creation. Animals are quite aware. The deer is such a gentle creature, ever watchful for danger & only because USA in 400 years has become this landscape of human population exploding in every area within this continent that there are so much incidents of deer getting killed on the roads or vice versa of a full grown deer, which has been encounterd in areas which was theirs to begin with.

In Europe they have devised ways for these animals to walk over safely to the other side with bridges which are built with vegetation and have fenced off millions of roadways to protect the wildlife.

In the U.S Monies could be spent protecting the wildlife by constructively building safer highway fences for the deer to stop becoming deer kill. Why not invest in that.

Ed your argument of comparing Lettuce and plants to animals is really retarded & also there is nothing called HUMANE KILLING for that COINAGE IS AN OXYMORON.

To hide a hunter

Cauthon, Deering, NH — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 04:34:05 GMT

I wonder if Mr. Boyle had any idea what a hornets’ nest he was stirring up when he wrote a perfectly reasonable science article to help us keep up with what is going on in the world. And, I have a lot of sympathy for the people who try to keep things decent and reasonable here (... not attacking the comments of others). At least it seems pretty much in balance here, with plenty of people, hunters and other reasonable people, with answers for those who enjoy attacking other people for fun; but, we do often see a savage, lynch-mob mentality online. I’ll take my chances with my fellow hunters, who generally work very hard to avoid hurting humans, rather than those who take up the pen (mightier than the sword) and attack people:-)

A friend of mine who lived in northern New Jersey when hunting was not allowed there told me that it is really true, the deer come out of the woods, looking for food on the suburban lawns, and don’t find enough there, and die on the lawns and along the roadsides. If the PETA People want to rescue the deer from the Hobbesian state of nature, let them build nursing homes for them, places to stay in their old age. Leaving the deer outdoors to die of whatever is out there is not nice enough.

Another friend went to Alaska to go hunting, and he said that his friends there warned him not rely on his .357 magnum pistol, no matter what we might hear about those in the dime novels, and how deadly they are supposed to be. “They take their bears seriously there.” OTOH, I have the same kind of handgun, and any time I have to go to the Wicked City, I prefer to take that with me; I have never been attacked by predators among my fellow humans, but just down the street from where I work, someone was stabbed 22 times, after which I guess his adversaries considered the discussion finished. One of the people who served on the jury for that one said that the pictures were impressive. One reason for the fear and loathing of hunters is that we use weapons that could be used to damage humans, and of course, if there were no guns, nobody could commit murder; just ask Robin Hood, and Tamerlane, and Joshua, and Eowyn of Rohan if you don’t believe that:-) Not to mention the Rwandans with their machetes. Some years ago I had a chance to meet one of those liberal professors who write papers about social science issues, and he told me that he and his colleagues, being good liberals, and gun control being the acid test of liberalism, applied for a grant with the plan that they would go through the statistics and establish the foundation for gun control once and for all, but they found instead that there wasn’t any. In quite a few years since then, I have not seen anything that makes a dent in that conclusion. I do own guns, and I enjoy hunting, but I am not dangerous to humans; most of us aren’t, and the ones who are should be afraid that we will be dangerous to them, too.

To hide a hunter

Joe, Nebraska — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:46:19 GMT

I'm bothered by the many comments stating that the beef cattle killed for supermarket have all lived deplorable lives. That simply is not true. All of our cattle are born and raise on ranch. They spend the spring and summer in the pastures. Come fall, the ones to be sold are fed in the feedlot. They are neither mistreated nor subject to inhumane conditions. The better the conditions, the healthier the animal is and the faster they'll grow. Cattlemen know and understand this. Those who claim otherwise obviously haven't tried to make a living in agriculture.

To hide a hunter

Anya, Washington — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:13:02 GMT

To the hunters in this thread who used the "we've killed off their predators so WE have to kill them" reasoning for deer hunting:

Are you also committed to BRINGING BACK the predators? If you are not, then your line of reasoning is somewhat insincere.

For the record: I think deer hunting in much of the US is fine. Especially if you eat what you kill. And bow hunting, which was the subject of this article, is the method which levels the playing field; to me, it is the most "sportsmanlike." And heck yeah, more humane to eat wild-grown meat than feed lot cattle that has suffered. So I am not categorically against hunting, I would only hope that deer hunters are not also predator hunters, and that they support conservation and reestablishment of our continent's native predators.

After all, why should humans have all the fun? Give that wolf or puma a chance to bag its own buck.

To hide a hunter

Erik, Aurora, CO — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:29:12 GMT

Ever since the first rock was thrown, The first Stick was sharpend, and the first snare or pit trap was used. Man has used technology to hunt. Ever since the first branch was used to hide or the first animal skin was used to blend in, technology was being employed to hunt, or in warfare. It was these early achievements along with mobile housing and fire instead of trees, caves and raw food that mans quest for knowledge has driven the growth of the very civilization we enjoy today. The developpment of better camoflage through modern technology is simply a continuance of that which has been the story of civilization.

To hide a hunter

David, LA — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:45:45 GMT

Wow. Too much to respond to, though nothing I haven't heard before. Same old justification to defend something that is obviously wrong...

-Hunting as a cure for overpopulation is a myth. Who propagates it? Hunters and the "game" boards that are run by hunters. Are these "game" boards exploring non-lethal ways to control population? I don't think so-- they'd lose too much revenue. And they have a lot of frickin' nerve calling themselves "conservationists." Do me a favor, don't "conserve" me or anyone I care about, OK?

-Hunting actually makes overpopulation worse. According to a study done in PA, 3 out of 5 deer in collisions with cars had been shot. So thanks, hunters, for causing deer to run into my car to get away from you shooting at them.

-The "carnivore" thing teeth is absolutely ridiculous. Look at your "canine" teeth, then look at a dog's. Look alike? No? If we had real canine teeth, we'd look like vampires.

-Last time I heard "heritage" so much, it was used to defend the confederate flag.

-You know what else is in our DNA? Rape. That's why men are bigger than women. Is that part of your "lifestyle" too? I doubt it, of course, but using your reasoning, it could be. You opened the DNA door, and it's very difficult to close.

-I grew up hunting and fishing. That's how I know it's wrong. Don't be so presumptuous.

-And I don't think there's anything pansy about defending animals against those who want to kill them. It actually has caused me to endure a whole bunch of insults in my life, some on this board. It's OK. I can take it. :)

To all you out there against hunting, I honestly believe you are the heirs to the great civil rights movements of the past. It takes a big soul to see beyond your own perspective and consider suffering you might be causing others. It makes me feel good to know you're out there!

To hide a hunter

Valerie, Lakeside, OR — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 06:50:58 GMT

Hunting is not a sport. It is as someone said a heritage. Hunting is tough not easy and not a walk in the park shooting gallery.

A hunter first spends weeks walking up and down steep rugged terrain scouting to see the habits and habitation of the area of the animal. It's either frigid cold or exhaustingly hot and extremely uncomfortable to sit perfectly still for hours.

As to the animal having no chance of winning the game that really is laughable because his odds are 100% greater then the hunters. Days and weeks may be spent searching this way waiting and looking for game that may never appear. Sometimes the game is there but conditions are not right and the shot has to be passed up. When game is spotted the animal rarely knowns it has been shot. The majority of hunters are swift and accurate. They can't afford to waste a shot.

If you watch too many outdoor hunter shows then you probably think it is so easy because the shows are edited. They also hunt with a guide on private land. 99.9% of hunters don't hunt that way! We do it the old fashion way. And let me tell you it is no fun when you have to drag or carry a 150 to 1000lb animal as much a several miles, since there aren't too many roads in most public hunting areas.
I should know as I am a woman hunter who has shot and carried my share and my hunting partner's game out over some pretty rugged territory. It's no picnic but we do it to eat the meat!

I take my camera along and get some beautiful shots of the land and animals to share with my non hunting friends who would never have the opportunity to see nature like I do. Not only do they appreciate the photos but they also love to eat the meat we share! That is what hunting is all about. Experiencing God's great creation nature and His wonderful bounty with others.

To hide a hunter

J. Hall — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 07:59:36 GMT

David there are actually people that hunt in order to eat. I would agree that the technology is unnecessary a patient and skilled hunter doesn't need it. A deer is going to smell or hear you long before you have a chance to startle him with your outline. I also believe that people are natural hunters, some need the outlet others funnel the innate desire to pursue animals into other interests, bird watching, wildlife photog,etc. Also, hunters are the people that are active in habitat preservation, and have a stake in the health of the population of the species they pursue. If you have ever lived in an area with a deer problem you are aware that starvation is more cruel than the bullet. In these situations not only the deer suffer but the plant life and other animals that rely on the same resources. Home owners that want to have ornamental plants are out of luck. Not really about camouflage but most of the discussion seems to be more about hunting in general. Hunting can be humane and beneficial to the overall species or population.

To hide a hunter

Jerry, Missouri — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:10:59 GMT

This all started as a discussion about clothing, isn't it amazing how easily distracted the human mind gets. We have people talking about new weapons, the end of mankind and how much better the world would be without hunting. It's cloths, it won't make you a better hunter or person just because you purchased them. Animals survive due to the fact that their eyesight is far superior to ours in their environment, that's not to mention that deer can and do smell you way before they see you. If you are to "kill" an animal it's more due to dumb luck than skill or anything else. We are way out of our league when we choose to hunt an animal such as deer. Unless you choose to do it on one of the oh so popular hunting ranches or preserves that are everywhere, that's not any way for an animal to die...

To hide a hunter

US Citizen — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:44:37 GMT

To all the hunters...I spent 5.5 years in the Marines..Desert Storm...the whole bit. I grew up in the city and the country in the Midwest. Hopefully, people that are not awake yet, with the situation and status of our country right now, they better wake up soon. Everyone should know how to hunt, grow their own food via garden, etc. With just looking at the state of our economy presently...and how large organizations have been on a "paper chase" with no regard to its' employees who make the profits a reality..it's apparent that you can no longer count on "Govt" or any large entity to look out for your best interest...and we aren't even talking food!! We are entering a new era in American History and it stopped being about color some time ago. Everything is economic...and greed has completely taken over. Ethics is history in todays business world.

EVERY person I know that hunts....it's for food for their families, friends, or to be sold and someone else will consume.

It's easy to pass judgement...for those completely sold on this "world of technology"...but it's not real. The lights go out....and chaos begins, and not from it being dark, but because we have lost sight of being self sufficient. But then again, we can always count on FEMA, who did a cracker jack job down south.

Bottomline, take a good look around, the real estate game could have been avoided, this automobile game could have been avoided, we the taxpayers are bailing out basically more Enron leaders. And while bailing everyone out...who is paying? The taxpayers...with over 500,000 jobs lost in Nov.

This is reality currently in our country. I don't know what the answer is...but one thing for sure...You better know how to feed your family and yourself, and neighbors. Many people who are feeling this crunch, and don't know how to hunt or grow food...are resorting to crime across the country which is sad for everyone involved.

God bless everyone

To hide a hunter

Remman, Maui, Hawaii — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:53:48 GMT

Really, I just like the camo.

To hide a hunter

Lauren, Baltimore, Maryland — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:59:07 GMT

Hunting is hunting.Its a sport now since we dont need it to survive anymore with the local meat counter. But it goes to far when you concentrate this much tec when it could be used for more important things. Bow hunting rules!

To hide a hunter

Ryan, Boston, MA — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:40:53 GMT

Well we've killed off all the predators, and even the biggest yuppie-hippies aren't going to be in favor of re-introducing wolves to suburban North America. So that leaves us with allowing people to pay for the right to hunt the animals, or society paying some worker to mow them down with machine guns from helicopter. Or society investing in a multi-million dollar deer contraception plan. If their numbers aren't decreased by predation, they go by starvation and speeding car. You pick.

To hide a hunter

An avid hunter, Washington DC — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:43:43 GMT

In reading the multitude of comments - it reminds me that our society evolved from hunters, gatherers, and useless gloms that the nuclear group always had to provide for. It is obvious to see where the useless gloms have evolved to in thinking that the quickest way to cook or eat is a debit/credit card. Hunting is a heritage, a right, and requires free choice to participate. If you choose not to participate - it does not provide you with the right to judge those that do...but as a parting thought - if society were to collapse, only the hunters and gatherers would survive - the useless gloms would swiftly perish because their choice would leave them standing outside in the cold.

To hide a hunter

Steve, Tampa, FL — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:48:47 GMT

Everybody knows that Santa and the Tooth Fairy bring presents, the government will take care of us, and meat comes from supermarkets. I don't see the problem.

To hide a hunter

Joe B. Manning, SC — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:50:37 GMT

I am a deer hunter and eat what I shoot, I believe all states make it illegal to sell wild game, but you can give it away.
I have found deer respond to motion and scent more so than the ability to recognize a hunters outline. I have a mother and fawn stop within arms reach of me in the swamps of South Carolina, I froze and they didn't panic, no I didn't shoot them. I have also had a Bobcat come closer than I wanted once, he never smelled me or saw me until I moved, I didn't shoot him either, I don't eat bobcat.
W.L Gore products are outrageously expensive, so I will stick with my Mossy Oak, good cover scents and st health tactic ts.
Contrary to what anti-hunters would have you believe one doesn't go into the woods and just mow down animals, all wild animals are extremely wary, and will move away from any motion or odor they don't under stand.

To hide a hunter

silvas Houston, texas — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:13:52 GMT

I like to sneak up on my food in the grocery store and then pounce on a hersheys at the last minute. grrrrrrowl. It helps if I look like a mouse.

To hide a hunter

Chuck Taylor foryth mo. — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:50:00 GMT

Well,all i can say to David is, if they ever drop a bomb you would be glad to be my best friend, because i know how to live off the land.

To hide a hunter

Nanook of the North, Oregon USA — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:31:38 GMT

it's totally awesome, besides, more deer starve to death throughout the winter up north than get killed by hunters. Deer reproduce like rabbits, a couple of years of no hunting and you would start seeing deer pop up in cities, lost of course,but with a large number just outside the urban areas. Deer meat is good for you to because they aren't fattened up, it's the old saying you are what you eat, eat muscular muscle(meat) and work out, yea baby, HuManz are the greatest predators ever!!! We owe are minds to protein provided by eating meat. Heck, why would god not want us to eat deer, he even made their tails with a white marker so you don't lose em:)

To hide a hunter

Tom in Wisconsin — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:08:03 GMT

The idea that the beef we eat isn't stressed before it's killed is ridiculous. I've been to a slaughterhouse killing floor. The smell of blood and death permeates the air and the animals are crowded into a small area where they are systematically concussed. Most are not dead when they are hoisted onto the 'production' line. There is one man and his job is to cut the jugular so the animal will bleed out. It is not pretty! Think about that the next time you walk by the meat counter.

Too many people have no concept where their food comes from. If you ask a child where the milk comes from that they put on their cereal every morning most will respond: "The store." Hamburgers come from MacDonalds, what does a cow have to do with it?

I heard a term several years ago that refers to the urban human: cidiots (pronounced sid-ee-its). These are the morons that come from their urban environment into the country and expect the Walt Disney version of nature. Animals have families, right? Get real!

I hunt because I can. I hunt because I love the taste of game. I hunt because I know I won't be getting meat that's dosed up with antibiotics, growth hormones, and who knows what else. I always remember to thank the animals I kill for giving me sustenance. This is not a game even though many call it sport. It's a way of life. I know many families that have hunted because they would have gone hungry otherwise.

If you are a vegetarian or vegan, fine. That doesn't mean I have to be, I have a choice and I choose to have meat in my diet. As long as game is plentiful I will hunt. Remember, hunters have done more and contributed more money to maintain wildlife than all the rest of the cidiots combined. Ducks Unlimited was started because waterfowl were endangered in the days of the Dust Bowl. So it is with other animal species too.

I am an ethical hunter. If I have doubts that my shot will not be a clean kill, I don't shoot. My objective is to put meat on the table and not have an animal suffer in the process.

If I am not successful in my hunt as far as taking an animal I am not disappointed. I've had a wonderful day sitting in the woods watching nature. I will teach my son to respect nature and, when he's old enough, teach him to hunt like my father did. It's not a matter of gonads, it is fun!

To hide a hunter

Charles — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:40:10 GMT

Some of you need to get a clue. Hunting is by no means an easy task. My success rate is only 50% in the past 6 yrs. In the woods, the animals are by far the smarter creature.

As Dominic said, go ahead and hide your guilt behind the store bought meat. I'm sure that those animals were comforted every day and then put to rest peacefully before they were slaughtered to be placed in a plastic wrapper. You can then go to the check out and get money out of your nice leather wallet or purse, walk out in your nice leather shoes, climb into your nice car with heated leather seats....where does all this leather come from...please.

The over population of deer is an obvious problem is some areas. They are a renewable resource and much of the meat here in Ohio is donated to feed those less fortunate than many of you. I'm sure many of them are very thankful for the hunter that gave his time, money to hunt, then donates his meat to help feed their family.

Out of the King James Bible:

Now therefore take, I pray thee, thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field, and take me some venison.

To hide a hunter

JT — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:06:13 GMT

Some of you are ridiculous. Humans have been killing and eating animals for a long time. Do you think the meat you get at the local grocery is grown on trees?

The deer we harvest and enjoy is much better than the stuff you get from the slaughterhouse.

To hide a hunter

Jason Aspen,Co — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:43:31 GMT

If we didn't kill these deer and elk and so forth, you couldn't drive your car down the road without hitting one. Our worlds would be overrun with these animals.
GET A GRIP...WE HUNT TO EAT AND WE LIKE TO KILL.
QUIT BEING SUCH BABIES ABOUT ALL OF IT.
BABIES, ALL YOU NON HUNTERS, JUST BABIES.

To hide a hunter

leigh denman hagerstown maryland — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:11:30 GMT

Deer Anya. Lets propose to sell hunting license to wolves and pumas, good for one human. Since man has encroached into their territory the incidence of puma attacks have risen. Who is at fault? Deer need good food sources to multiply. Soy beans to a deer are like candy to kids, so is young winter wheat and corn when it is about 3 to 4 inches tall. The need to thin deer herds. A while ago I was in a woods in about the month of August, I counted about 80 deer in one herd. The land I was on was a farm in W.V. The damage they [deer]do means the differince for this farmer making a profit or not. hunting will not stop deer damage. Maybe we as hunters can minimize some of this damage. I applaude your common sense for your atitude toward hunting.

To hide a hunter

MsSVasan — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:10:27 GMT

To the Folks Below:
David, LA David, LA (Sent Friday, December 12, 2008 1:45 AM) Tom in Wisconsin (Sent Friday, December 12, 2008 9:08 AM) & Lacy, Oklahoma City,
I absolutely appreciate your comments. :) :) !!!

Trust me, in this forum you folks & myself might be seemingly outnumbered & I have listened/ read all the comments without feeling angry or upset even though we seem to be 3 or 4 voices in the wilderness/ jungle of mostly people (who love to hunt, who use hunted 'kill' for food etc., or justify hunting as the way humans were made for).

At the outset I'm a vegetarian, who was born & raised in a family which can trace it's roots to thousands and thousands of years of vegetarianism & I'm originally from India, who immigrated with my family nearly 3 decades ago. I am Indian American who has been calling United States my home for all these years.
I'm writing so that if there are readers who are not biased & are openminded would like to see some other opinions not necessarily from the Western Civilization point of view but also from someone who is originally from an ancient civilization and culture, much older than the Greeks, Romans & the Egyptians put together. A culture so ancient that it is timeless. Representing that culture, I would like to write the following and hoping that MSNBC will post what I have to written albeit a little long.

Why Do Some Humans born in some civilizations eat and Love Meat where as, human beings born in the exact opposite side of this continent i.e India ...have for generations and a mind boggling Billion Plus Practising Hindus, Jains, Buddhists are Vegetarians, So Vegetarians are a Huge Population to contend with World Wide abhorr the very notion of having the flesh / blood or whatever of a murdered/killed/butchered/hunted/ animal...For them the aspect of consuming such a meal is worse than the imposition of death and I myself would rather starve to death than eat such kind of food. It is basically revolting to look at, the stench is something we do not like ...it is like the smell of ROASTED ANIMALS..which is really awful. It leaves many many Vegetarians from India with a sense of revulsion & we hold our noses...especially for me, when I walk through crowded cities & end up having to smell roast beef, roasted animal smell all over.

The basis is the aspect of soul evolution/ soul Charecteristics. In India, there are millions upon millions who do not eat meat or even eggs, fish, chicken (anything to do with living animals). It is not do with humans, where the souls have evolved with characteristics based on the subtler universes we all come from. The souls from the darker denser Universe of God's Lower Realms of creation have come down in the western civilizations where the climate is cold, meat has been a way of life for millennia. Please refer to the Tibetan Book of the Dead (which is actually derived from the ancient texts of Hinduism’s eternal tenets which Glorify God’s incarnation in volumes so huge that Iliad & Odyssey when combined will fall short with the extent of verses of wisdom Called “Shrimad Bhaghavatam” in ‘Sanskrit’ (Language of the GOD), handed down from sages to sages from time immemorial in ancient India
India's BILLION + population of Hindus (residing in villages, cities, suburbs, & in foreign countries all over the world...& those who are not necessarily practicing Hinduism) usually have a lifestyle, strictly containing of vegetarian food for millions of years in their soul culture. That is they have been born into families who have never taken meat for generations after generations. Of course Modern day India is now filled with people who are consuming chicken, mutton etc. etc.
People believing & practicing Hinduism also do not consider ourselves having evolved from some CRO MAGNUM Men or Neanderthal Cave Men or that we all originated in the continent of Africa. Not at all. We all are souls, who have devolved from our Pure Spirit Consciousness onto our Human Births for the sake of Evolving our Spirit Consciousness.
All the aspects of race, the skin color all vanishes, since it is do with the subtle aspects of Karma....Soul Transmigration from a variety of species to this human body and also from a human body which is not able to grasp any of these deeper philosophical, spiritual concepts such as for eg. (the characteristics of the soul, which determines where they are born, with what tendencies & so on so forth).
Atleast from my ancient Eternal Tradition of what we call, SANATANA DHARMA or Eternal Culture, which is the Richness of India's Great Spiritual Heritage, the fundamental aspects of great souls born everywhere not just Mahatma Gandhi who practised and preached non-violence, but with many many great Sages, Seers, of Ancient India, from time imm-memorial have been fastidious people living on the code of eating food, which does not have the karma of killing innocent animals (for during the process of slaughtering....which TOM, from Wisconsin has very well described) … the animals, ...& I am referring to the cows which get slaughtered here in the U.S and elsewhere in the world, the pain & suffering it endures is in the nerve toxins or neurotoxins in the blood & flesh.
So by eating the slaughtered animals flesh, we are also imbibing the subtler effects of it's pain and suffering through the nerve toxins which build up when the animal is put to the distress of being Butchered either via a Hunters rifle or in a slaughterhouse which is truly like HELL ON EARTH FOR THESE LIVING CREATURES, WHO FEEL AND SENSE PAIN AS MUCH AS WE HUMANS CAN FEEL PAIN...JUST IMAGINE IF WE SLAUGHTERED HUMAN BEINGS THE WAY WE SLAUGHTER THE SO CALLED CATTLE (BEEF/VEAL) whom I consider as COWS & CALVES.
Also for us Hindus and Believers of Krishna Conscious Movement, Westerners who have taken a lifestyle of piety, non-meat eating, worshipping God as described in the transcendental Eternal Sanskrit scriptures of Ancient India, which has now been translated for the benefit of humankind all over the world by the Hare Krishna Conscious Movement for the betterment of SOCIETY TO LIVE A WHOLESOME, LOVING, REALLY HEALTHY VEGETARIAN LIFE, FREE OF DISEASES & STRESS ...in that Sacred Lifestyle (even if one follows it with just the aspect of abstaining from meat eating it will give us a lot of help for our lives to evolve) ...
Also for Millions of HINDUS why is COW SO HOLY. COWS GIVES US MILK...SO IT IS IN THE POSITION OF WHAT MOTHER EARTH IS...A BEAUTIFUL MOTHER.. ..A COW's MILK has all the nutrients. Unfortunately in the U.S even partaking milk for me I feel I'm causing pain to my soul, since all those babies (calves) have been taken away from their Mothers(COWS) just after being born and kept separately in a another area in farm (maybe well kept and fed) but still separated from it's Mother. So I DO NOT CONSUME THE MILK even though I used to in India when I was a child and until my teenage years. Now I have become allergic to Milk & YOUGURT living in the U.S For so many years (perhaps also due to the amount of hormones & the kind of super enriched vitamins these cows are given to make them GREAT MILK PRODUCING SUPER DAIRY COWS, with Huge Udders which is so grotesque to even watch, since the animal is so heavy and carries it’s abnormally huge, grotesquely large udders as it lives a life of good feed, mechanized milk production etc. etc.
Make a note. VEGETARIANS ARE NOT SKINNY. We get enough protein in Beans, Legumes, Nuts, MILK & CHEESE etc. So the aspect that vegetarian food is actually makes a man or woman look wimpy skinny (if it is a perception is not at all true). I know many Americans who are non-meat eating (atleast they have had an upbringing of being born in those Hare Krishna Conscious Families) who do not consume any meat. Then I know those Americans who also have stopped eating meat (where once they were consuming huge amounts of hamburgers and what not)..Once they changed their diet to something like what Trader Joes sells, then they could never get back to eating sausages, bacon, Ham, beef etc etc. It caused them major major stomach problems.
I have also been quite amazed that Tom has given a stark detail description of what really goes on in Slaughter Houses (which I have copied & pasted below) so that you will know whose comment I am referring to).
Huge Population of Indians, who are either Christians, Non-Praciscing Hindus, eat chicken & sadly even Beef. Since there is a huge population of Muslims & Christians meat eating has become common in many parts of India after the Muslim invaders came from the time of Muhammad Ghazni (Mongolian) in the early 1100 AD's.
Mostly Hindus, Jains, Buddhists in India are non-meat eating, vegetarians. I have been born in a family where I can tell you at least for several generations, nearly 1000 or more, we are strict vegetarians. Mostly because, eating meat causes us great distress to our hearts, minds & souls. Also it is considered a real low class of food.
We consider that souls which are not evolved in God Consciousness are actually able to partake what you call is the kill which you eat with your mashed potatoes.

It is highly offensive in our culture to dine in areas where there is meat being served. Since the energy is not conducive to our spiritual growth. Also the smell of burnt flesh, cooked flesh is so revolting for me personally that I would never come near the food even if I were left to starve to death.

For me starving to death is better than consuming an innocent animals butchered meat.

Also I know Jesus Christ was a vegetarian. He said simply... THOU SHALT NOT KILL...

It does not matter whatever arguments the majority of the so called highly modernized western civilization might like to offer me...for me, you are what you eat from head down your feet, so once you start eating animal, you are nothing but a human animal even though in a human body. Even if you claim that you do not go about shooting people or become a violent killer, the darkness is still in the soul consciousness and therefore, there has been not much evolution soul wise from the so called Neanderthal Man, CRO-MAGNUM MAN, APES and so forth and we are only a CIVILIZATION OF SOPHISTICATED ANIMALS WITH ANIMILASTIC TENDENCIES.
In any given society to become violent and cause violence (I'm referring to humans), is condemned. So for hunters to justify that their killing is Ok, that they are not demented & are not human killers is not a proper justification at all. Society requires that we uphold that much in the minimum...to respect the lives of other humans even if you are an hunter and I am pure vegetarian.
This is what Tom in Wisconsin (Sent Friday, December 12, 2008 9:08 AM)wrote
The idea that the beef we eat isn't stressed before it's killed is ridiculous. I've been to a slaughterhouse killing floor. The smell of blood and death permeates the air and the animals are crowded into a small area where they are systematically concussed. Most are not dead when they are hoisted onto the 'production' line. There is one man and his job is to cut the jugular so the animal will bleed out. It is not pretty! Think about that the next time you walk by the meat counter.

Too many people have no concept where their food comes from. If you ask a child where the milk comes from that they put on their cereal every morning most will respond: "The store." Hamburgers come from MacDonalds, what does a cow have to do with it?

I heard a term several years ago that refers to the urban human: cidiots (pronounced sid-ee-its). These are the morons that come from their urban environment into the country and expect the Walt Disney version of nature. Animals have families, right? Get real!

I hunt because I can. I hunt because I love the taste of game. I hunt because I know I won't be getting meat that's dosed up with antibiotics, growth hormones, and who knows what else. I always remember to thank the animals I kill for giving me sustenance. This is not a game even though many call it sport. It's a way of life. I know many families that have hunted because they would have gone hungry otherwise.

If you are a vegetarian or vegan, fine. That doesn't mean I have to be, I have a choice and I choose to have meat in my diet. As long as game is plentiful I will hunt. Remember, hunters have done more and contributed more money to maintain wildlife than all the rest of the cidiots combined. Ducks Unlimited was started because waterfowl were endangered in the days of the Dust Bowl. So it is with other animal species too.

I am an ethical hunter. If I have doubts that my shot will not be a clean kill, I don't shoot. My objective is to put meat on the table and not have an animal suffer in the process.

If I am not successful in my hunt as far as taking an animal I am not disappointed. I've had a wonderful day sitting in the woods watching nature. I will teach my son to respect nature and, when he's old enough, teach him to hunt like my father did. It's not a matter of gonads, it is fun! "

To hide a hunter

MsSVasan — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:42:18 GMT

It is really a widely held misleading concept that Deer population is effectively being controlled in the wild and areas where humans have set himself/herself up, smack right, dead & if not in the middle but close to the forests all over the AREAS OF WILDERNESS LIKE WYOMING, WASHINGTON, OREGON, UTAH,Pennsylvania, New Jersey, NEVADA AND ALL THOSE BIG STATES (BIGGER THAN THE STATE OF TINY Mass.).

The above is just a theory and I concur with David, LA who wrote the following.

"......-Hunting as a cure for overpopulation is a myth. Who propagates it? Hunters and the "game" boards that are run by hunters. Are these "game" boards exploring non-lethal ways to control population? I don't think so-- they'd lose too much revenue. And they have a lot of frickin' nerve calling themselves "conservationists." Do me a favor, don't "conserve" me or anyone I care about, OK?

-Hunting actually makes overpopulation worse. According to a study done in PA, 3 out of 5 deer in collisions with cars had been shot. So thanks, hunters, for causing deer to run into my car to get away from you shooting at them..............."

To hide a hunter

Jay, Hawaii — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:00:28 GMT

I was a hunter long ago, a bow hunter. I was all into the mechanical side of bows and shooting and hunting. I took several deer in Central Texas in my time. For what ever reason, I decided I just didn't like killing the animal and the ritual that went with it.

For those that hunt, I understand the drive, the skill, the reward. Should hard times, not squeekly clean wall st. hard times, but real hard times when all you know has disappeared, my desire will go back up, and I will have the tools and knowledge.

To not want to hunt or have a personal moral decision not to hunt is fine, however telling someone that they have small genitals because they do, bespeaks a whole different level of insecurity than what ever gain hunting might provide for the hunter. You may wish some day that a hunter is your best friend.

To hide a hunter

Zee, Grand Prairie, Texas — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:28:08 GMT

Obviously the problem here is more movement than the actual concealment. Move a bit or smell like a threat and it doesn't matter how well concealed you are.

And to those who think using weapons to take game is unfair and that all animal food sources should be taken by hand to hoof combat, you've got issues with logic.

To hide a hunter

David — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 03:56:21 GMT

Thanks MsSVasan and others, for all your kind words. You give me hope for our species! BTW, I didn't discover Indian food until I became a vegetarian. What was I waiting for?

Some more things I'd like to point out:

-I believe it is a false dichotomy to say "either we kill them or they overpopulate". Even if hunting did help control population (it doesn't), why do we act like it's the only possible control? Do we really not have any higher technology than shooting? Are we really that unsophisticated? Of course not. We can do better.

-If it's cruel to let them starve, maybe you'd better put people first by going to remote parts of the world and "culling" the human herd. Sound ridiculous? Now you're getting the idea. But by hunters' logic, it makes perfect sense. So why don't they put they're money where their mouth is?

-Hunters can't judge the morality of their own act because they are too close to it. Humans naturally don't see themselves as bad, so anything we do must have a justification. That's why there are so many mental gymnastics when you try to defend hunting. I stopped hunting and fishing because I couldn't defend it to myself. For the same reason, I stopped being a homophobe, but that's a completely different board.

-Why do hunters go for the strongest and not the weakest? Do they brag about a 10 pointer, or about helping the herd by reducing overpopulation? "I could tell she was a sick deer, so I brought her down to avoid her wasting the herd's resources." You never hear that. That's because the "overpopulation" defense is a BS smokescreen. I have to call you on it.

-I'm not perfect, but I am trying to reduce suffering in this world. So "hypocrite" (please learn to spell this correctly, btw) is not the right word. If I secretly hunted but said I were against it, then it would be correct. But no one can eliminate all the harm they cause, so it's ridiculous to call someone a "hypocrite" because they haven't achieved perfection. Perfection is impossible.

-There's an assumption by some that people who live in cities are less intelligent or "in touch" with the world than those who live in rural areas. Do you really want to say that someone's intelligence is based on where they live? Are rural people superior? That's the argument you're making. But if I said that everyone who didn't live in LA (or NY) was a hick, you'd be all over me, right? Guess that would make you a hypocrite.

OK, now you can go back to making fun of me, as if that somehow strengthens your case.

To hide a hunter

MsSVasan — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:24:51 GMT

Hi David,
First of all I am really glad that MSNBC did post my thread :).

I am really heartened to see your points. The most amazing thing I see about your point of views are, that you were a former hunter & also a fisherman, who gave up that practice. I have to give you a lot of credit for that same reason and sincerely applaud you that for whatever reasons, you were clearly able to step away from that role & look back & point out that which is a constant justification of hunters & game boards. I am really amazed & I feel like saying. Keep up your good comments. We might be seemingly be in the minority but not really so when compared to the whole world.

Few questions I wish to raise.

1. Does the Sierra Nevada society also have the same basic philosophy that game reserves, hunters are the people responsible for maintaining/ contributing for the preservation of natural habitat.

That would be a real hard pill to swallow if I were to find that out but I would not be surprised on the flip side (knowing that many of these so called non-profit clubs/agencies actually have board members who have powerful connections with varying special interest groups/lobbyists in the White House, who necessarily are not for conservationists/ environment protection policies in any which way.

2. On that same note, you might like to check out "The Nature Conservancy's" so called mission statement and see what they did on the levee explosion in the state of Oregon....which is so contrary to their mission statement. You might like to check it out on youtube as well. They blasted a levee in Oregon, to restore the wetlands hoping that exploding that area (while dropping tons of chemicals in wetlands creating that huge & spectacular explosion & destroying a whole population of wild birds, migratory nesting birds, which were killed in great numbers & they call themselves The Nature Conservancy, which means protects wildlife & preserves nature...That incident was a smoking gun for these special agencies so called mission statements, what they say & what they really 'end up doing' or 'live up to'. Completely to the contrary.

Similarly, all the agencies & private agencies use the pretext of conservation within whatever activities they are engaging in. I am not surprised therefore, that in this forum, I see a lot of people substantiating the conservation aspect, whilst they go about their sport.

David, I am glad that you do like Indian Food. Perhaps you would like to widen your knowledge & understanding of the amount of health & nutrition one is able to obtain from living on a strict diet of vegetarian food (with of course great recipe's....really mouthwatering & delicious home cooked meals...that which is not served in some plain Indian Restaurants), I would suggest perhaps checking out some BBT books (on Vegetarian Recipes).
Your entire family will have a blast finding such mouth watering recipes which does not cost as much and in fact a fraction & you can cook them right in your own home.

With that said, I really have enjoyed reading/observing the viewpoints and was also glad to see Tom's (from Wisconsin) gutsy & frank/stark portrayal of the real cruel & inhumane ways of what goes on in SLAUGHTERHOUSES across the country & I am sure in countries like Argentina, South America, Europe and many other countries as well(& especially if one witnesses it in real life it is frankly so disturbing), that if that visit to a slaughterhouse or reading about it, does not make one give up eating butchered animals flesh, then WHAT WOULD, I have no idea.

I have also had the great opportunity of travelling via road, within U.S all the way from the west coast, down to Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma to Ohio a once in a lifetime opportunity, & during that long road trip, encountering these slaughterhouses on the way in CA ............ it was so dark, so painful ..the whole area surrounding was filled with something, which only myself & my friends (incidentally one friend of mine.....who travelled with me on that trip hailed from a family of game hunters in TN who as she grew up, right from childhood refused to eat meat & has been a vegetarian..) felt to our hearts or souls and perhaps to our bones ;) !!! as they say here to denote that awareness of that dark & really distressing energy levels, right around these slaughterhouses on Rt 101S, from San Francisco to LA.

We stopped several times, since we knew even before we started seeing those areas, we felt it and we were on a sort of pilgrimage....& lit candles & for a few minutes prayed for these distressed animals who had suffered so much in those dark areas.

That was a very deep and personal experience which I feel compelled to share.

David (LA) thanks for acknowledging & reading my long posts ;). !! Good Luck with your life & God Bless.

To hide a hunter

Bobby,McKee Kentucky — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:44:51 GMT

Hey guys truth be told hunting is nessasary to help control animal populations, so called sport hunting is called that because we dont hunt as means of pure survival,most hunters do eat what they kill or give it to some one who does, and for the record even the best hunters usualy only score a kill about 1 in 10 attemts, no better than natures best preadators,the biggest diffenece being humans are selective and like me the vast majority dont kill for the sake of killing it's frowned on in the hunting comunity to say the very least. modern camoflage does help but only to a small degree scince even the slightest movement or smell will give you away and you will never get a shot.

To hide a hunter

Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Sun, 14 Dec 2008 01:31:39 GMT

Huntlikeagirl, NC (12/11, 0944) I wouldn’t go with mossy oak, or anything photorealistic, if I wanted to hide. Look up how camo works. This stuff makes you nearly invisible, which is one reason I wouldn’t want to wear it where people have guns. I’d wear a jacket with a four foot pole and strobe light on top if it didn’t scare everything off. I’ve done photo hunts in street clothes to pistol shot distances. So close that my shutter spooked the deer. I’m sure I could get closer in a ghille suit than in bright Hawaiian print. I’m also sure I could successfully hunt in the Hawaiian print with my rifle. Smell, noise, motion. Dance in the best camo and you’ll be seen. I like to be sure I’m seen by people. You’re mossy oak is fine from the deer side as long as you’re a decent hunter. It’s bad enough from the people side that anyone checking their shot will see you. If you hunt in a no idiot zone you’re fine. I’ve seen no centerfire regs but they let idiots everywhere. Put on some orange.

WhatUpBoy – New Orleans (12/11, 1220) A shot from a half mile, 880 yards, is actually a challenge in itself. It takes a true marksman and stable conditions to make it. Most hunting weapons aren’t precise enough, let alone the shooter. I’ve seen shots like that in open country but never taken them. I think most deer hunting takes place in wooded areas where the only direction you can see a half mile is up. Unless you’re high and deer live in treetops… I use iron up to 300 yds or so, as this is point blank range. My scope sits between 400 and 600 yds depending, but 600 is just for hunting paper. And to try a 600 yard target with my scope at 400 yards is poetry in mot—no that’s not it. It’s, it’s, … Comedy. Comedy in motion. The shots you’re alluding to are fantastic and irresponsible for over 95% of the hunting population. You’re off by a factor of 10. No, not 8800 yards.
If you want to call people cowards for taking a 50 yard shot be my guest. What do you call people who buy meat from Safeway?

As far as this camo goes, why not replace one of those muted colors with red or pink. It may not be as effective on the deer, but way more effective for other hunters. If it’s 105% as visible to deer and 300% as visible to humans I’d say it’s a good trade. And the deers-eye-view reduces the muted colors to grey anyway. I’d guess they’re trying to market it on the science then abandoning the science for the marketing. Meaning, for those who don’t follow, they’re marketing the fact that it reduces to invisible to a deer’s vision but, I presume, don’t use a human safe color in the mix because it doesn’t unscientifically look like camo. As many states require a certain amount of hunter orange I’d like to see that incorporated so you don’t wind up covering your outers with a solid orange vest.

To hide a hunter

Kevin, Ramsey, Indiana — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 00:38:29 GMT

The last deer I shot never knew that I was there and died instantly and painlessly. Until the instant I pulled the trigger that animal had probably never felt fear unless it had been chased by a coyote or stray dog. The last burger I ate came from a steer raised in stressful conditions, pumped full of antibiotics and hormones, while eating corn to the point of indigestion since cows aren't designed to digest grain. That steer was then herded into a truck, driven miles from it's home, made to smell the blood of the steers that preceded it into the abbatoir as it lapsed into panic before finally having a pnuematic spike driven into it's brain.
Hunting is cruel? Pfffftttt!! Get real...

To hide a hunter

David — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:06:20 GMT

IF YOU WANT THERE TO BE A FAIR FIGHT. DON'T VACCINATE YOUR CHILDREN. DON'T GET THAT FLU SHOT. Poor little polio virus doesn't stand a chance against those.

To hide a hunter

Josh, MO — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:05:07 GMT

Most hunter's like myself hunt to get away from the everyday hassel, and to get out and enjoy the company of freinds and family as well as a little additional food for the table. Hunting is also a big business, which generates
$25 billion in retail sales, $17 billion in
salaries and wages, and employs 575,000
Americans, creating sales tax, state
income tax and federal income tax
revenues for government agencies and
the people they serve. Tell me what your hobby or pastime does for the economy.

To hide a hunter

Grumpy Curmudgeon, Michigan — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:22:06 GMT

I think people who force their views on others and call them names for doing something that is legal and natural are the real villains. That goes for whatever it is you do, whether you are talking about hunting or not.

Why don't people get all bent of shape when they see a homeless person or poor people? Why don't we see media blitzes to eradicate poverty or shelter the homeless? There are something like 37 million people living in poverty in the US. Think of what could happen if all the dollars spent on anti-hunting efforts were spent helping the poor...

Instead, we see PETA campaigns and political activists working to eradicate hunting instead of working to help people in need. What a waste.

The truth is, it's more fun and fashionable to rally around animal rights than it is to help people in need. Funny how that works, but it's much easier to rail about animals and their feelings than to actually put out your hand to another human being in need. It is absolutely pointless and a waste of time worrying about whether or not someone else eats meat, shoots it him or herself, or whatever.

To hide a hunter

rick k, argentine mi — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 03:35:01 GMT

hunting is a cultural thing and sadly our culture is slowly losing this great pasttime.i pay great respect for all animals i kill by my hand.i have developed a great deal of respect and knowledge for not only the quarry i pursue but also the enviroment in which they are found.the hunter and fisherman is truly the last great protector of our natural world, we are the link to the past, when man was an entegral part of the ecosystem, and not a destroyer of it.hunting is from an outsider a difficult activity to understand,but from where im from, its a blessing to be cherished.

To hide a hunter

David, LA — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:02:28 GMT

"i pay great respect for all animals i kill by my hand"

Wow. I've never seen such a sanctimonious bunch of hypocrites as the hunters on this board.

How do you say this without choking on the craziness? You want to show respect for a creature by killing him? Wha...? Listen to yourself.

Don't tell I don't understand because I've never hunted-- I used to be a hunter.

Don't tell me I'm a hypocrite because I don't know where my meat in the grocery store came from-- I'm a vegetarian, plus I know more about where meat comes from than most carnivores because I educated myself. Have any of you haters educated yourself on animal rights or do you just call names?

Don't tell me it's human nature-- if it were all people would tend to do it, and clearly many don't.

Don't tell me it's cultural-- lots of horrible things are defended by calling them "cultural": beheading girls in the town square for being too flirty, forced female genital mutilation, and not so long ago, segregation right here in the US.

Don't tell me the time would be better spent on humans-- you don't know anything about animal rights people, many of whom also work on human issues like hunger and homelessness. Why do you think it has to be either/or?

Do explain why, if you're so concerned with deer overpopulation, you aim for the strongest and healthiest. You're making the breeds smaller and weaker by your "negative Darwinism".

Do take a look at yourself it the mirror, and ask why it's OK to be a killer. Hint: it's not. You can do better.

To hide a hunter

David, LA — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:03:58 GMT

Oh, and one more thing: someone said a lettuce leaf is no different than a deer, and people call ME an idiot.