Rocket rides for $95,000

S.B. Stein E.B. NJ — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:15:36 GMT

That sounds like fun. Now I need to save some money for that ride. Would there be any physical requirements for that? Any space training? Is the craft using any different kind of engine?

Rocket rides for $95,000

Alex — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:17:08 GMT

Too bad 95,000 is still out my price range

Rocket rides for $95,000

steve smyth — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:28:15 GMT

Society Expeditions Project Space Voyage collected five thousand deposits of $5000 on a proposed ticket price of $52,000 in 1984/5.
They were a Global Travel agency that got into the Space Tourism Biz, like Mr. Klar.
Nobody ever went anywhere, and the $25mil/1985 dollars evaporated.
Ironically, Collete Bevis, Project Space Voyage Director, remains involved to this day...X-Prize... Diamanides Gal Friday.
Maybe she knows Klar, eh?
Same ol, same ol...where Paris Hilton's Uncle when we really need him?
Give him credit, he started all this.

[ALAN ADDS: This goes way back ... I do remember that Zegrahm Expeditions in Seattle sold its space travel operation to Space Adventures, but Society Expeditions appears to be a separate case. Here are a couple of links:]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/archives/1986/8601170974.asp

http://www.spacefuture.com/archive/
prospects_of_space_tourism.shtml

http://www.ereleases.com/pr/2003-10-22e.html

Rocket rides for $95,000

SM, Chicago, IL — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:45:37 GMT

Just like everything else amazing. It's only affordable by the rich and famous...

Rocket rides for $95,000

steve smyth — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:35:08 GMT

WOW!!!
I have looked for some of the info mentioned countless times...thanks, Alan.
Bevis told me there were 5000 deposits, not the 300 mentioned...suposedly including Walter Cronkite.
T.C. Swartz has been virtually invisible since just after Challenger put the brakes on things.
Of course, the fact that they were going to use Rotary Rocket as their launch vehicle didn't help...Challenger, or no Challenger.
I learned of Project Space Voyage's big deposit pitch while reading a letter from Bevis asking for specs, etc. on Gaia Two.
http://gaiatwo.blogspot.com
In those days, my mail usually came at around noon, so I went home for lunch to watch Challenger and hope for news from Society Expeditons.
The mail was there.
I read it with great excitement until the TV screen filled with the now infamous split vapor trails.
Dagnabbit!
That's no kiddin', Folks.

Rocket rides for $95,000

Adam, Dallas, TX — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:47:50 GMT

Sounds to me like you just have to be rich, I'm not sure famous is enough.
I've got an idea to get me in this: I'm looking for 20 donations of $4,999. For each donation I'll send my benefactors my written opinion of the experience. Add in an extra dollar and I'll even personalize the opinion. Remember to include tax.

Rocket rides for $95,000

Rand Simberg — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:24:30 GMT

Nobody ever went anywhere, and the $25mil/1985 dollars evaporated.

I thought that the deposits were escrowed, and eventually returned. Do you have other information? And I wasn't aware that Collette has been involved with Peter for several years.

Rocket rides for $95,000

Alan Boyle — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:37:41 GMT

In this archived New York Times story from 1998, T.C. Swartz indicates that the deposits were given back:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?
res=9804E7DD173FF934A25751C0A9
6E958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

In the mid-1980's, T. C. Swartz, who owns an adventure business in Seattle, took reservations for his Project Space Voyage, a trip planned for Columbus Day in 1992. Dozens of people, including 11 Stanford alumni, deposited money in escrow accounts.

''Clearly the demand was there,'' Mr. Swartz said. ''Then the Challenger blew up, and that was the end of it.''

The deposits were returned, he said, adding, ''I just don't see how two fundamental issues are going to be resolved: insurance and certification.'' ...

T.C. Swartz is now CEO and president of Starquest Expeditions in Seattle, and I'm checking in with him in hopes of revisiting some ancient space-tourism history.

Rocket rides for $95,000

steve smyth — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 22:46:16 GMT

Rand...the info is hard to locate...Alan just gave me more than I've thought about for quite some time.
The escrow story came after the fact...get somebody who is more involved to answer that one...I've never gotten any response.
The Bevis/Diamanides info may be scurrilous.
I got it from some google search a while back, trying to learn of her, or Swartz whereabouts...she was listed with some title equivalent to Diamanides' Gal Friday.
If you take the early Zegrahm group as your starting point, you'll arrive at the same bunch today, all in various guises.
It is the Travel Biz, dreamed up by ol' Man Hilton after all...Branson is nothing more than a shill for his own travel and record company businesses.
Alan can tell you that I have referred to the lot as TIN MEN (from the Danny Devito film) since the last Millennium.

Rocket rides for $95,000

Richard Speck, Denver, Colorado — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 00:39:48 GMT

Quote form earlier: “Just like everything else amazing. It's only affordable by the rich and famous...”

Actually, a great many “Amazing Things” have become very common:
International Air Travel is now affordable by virtually anyone who has a job (and the desire).
Mobile Telephones were once for the rich – now virtually everyone has one.
The “Free” ones even come with Color Video Cameras built in. Some are virtually “Disposable”.

Electronic Flash once was an expensive Camera Accessory – now it is included in disposable cameras.
An economical GPS has performance never even dreamed of in Science Fiction! I found that you can measure the height of a person by moving a consumer grade unit from the ground to the top of his head! A six foot difference determined by measuring the speed of light travel time difference from satellites 11,000 miles away! (A rather ridiculous concept!)

More than two decades ago, pilots began “wearing” systems which would allow them to soar into the sky in sustained powered flight, and land again on their feet.

It is rumored that IBM once estimated the World Market for computers as 5: One for the East Coast, one for the West coast, One for Europe, another for Japan and one for some special DOD location. (In any case they were certainly multi Million Dollar $$$ systems when a hamburger cost $0.15) I once envisioned the consternation if someone in a marketing meeting in the 1950s were to say: “Consider the market when computers are sold in packages handing on the wall in grocery store...” (Some common calculators are more powerful than computers of that era.) But I was too conservative: I did not envision computers in disposable TOYS!

Will spaceflight become as affordable as a budget trip to Europe? Probably – but not for some time.

Rocket rides for $95,000

Lee Valentine — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:37:37 GMT

Congratulations to visionaries like Per Wimmer. His first flight will bring the day when anyone who can afford a new car can afford a flight into space.

XCOR's engineers are too modest. The Lynx Air Force contract requires a flight of 38 miles. XCOR is confident that Lynx will exceed that number.

Rocket rides for $95,000

Harry Carry — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 05:52:43 GMT

Now we all know the Moon is not made out of green cheese but if it were made out of BBQ spare ribs would you eat it? Heck, I know I would and then I would polish it off with a tall cool Budweiser. I guess it must be kind of fun floating around up there with a Ray gun.

Rocket rides for $95,000

Randall Clague, Mojave, CA — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:46:17 GMT

Alan, a correction: space flight participants (not passengers) must provide their informed consent FIRST, not eventually. FAA regulations require the operator to inform the space flight participant of the risks of the flight before receiving compensation or making an arrangement to fly the space flight participant. That's why Per signed the informed consent form before Jules presented him ticket #1.

-R

[ALAN ADDS: 'Tis done ... thanks for setting me straight, Randall!]

Rocket rides for $95,000

Simon, Zurich, Switzerland — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:38:17 GMT

this is so exciting.. it really feels like the next step in space exploration.
With the bigger competition through private space company's the developement will be much faster than when its just national Space agencies.

For now its just short trips to space, the next logical step would be a space hotel in orbit. After that a Hotel or Trips to the moon? And after that maybe to the whole Solarsystem? I can alreay picture cruises to mars (why not I ask?). After that? Who knows.. permanent space colonies? I mean if your Building a Hotel on the moon, it doesnt make sense to have your staff fly back to earth all the time, so people would already start a settlement there.

Gosh Im so excited to see this happening..

onwards humanity! to the stars!

Rocket rides for $95,000

michelle, tulsa, oklahoma — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:43:32 GMT

As soon as I win the lottery I'm buying my ticket.

Rocket rides for $95,000

OneVoice, Frederick MD — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:47:28 GMT

For Simon in Zurich: There is a company already working on the space hotels, Bigelow Aerospace. They have two prototypes in orbit now.

Hey Alan, Any news on them? Haven't heard anything in a while

Rocket rides for $95,000

John Chambers Redmond, OR — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:49:52 GMT

well I liked the idea of taking donations, but my suggestion is that you consider breaking the donations into even smaller segments and offer some photos and other memorabila. It's doable.

This is an exciting idea and the comments are good. On a somewhat related topic though I have been wondering lately why someone (country or individual) has claimed the moon. Seriously.

John

Rocket rides for $95,000

Dan Shaw sierra vista az. — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:10:58 GMT

Since I can't afford a ticket, can I get Obama to buy me one? After all, I'm being held down by evil capitalists.

Rocket rides for $95,000

Matt, McKinney TX — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:51:07 GMT

Wow, 95 grand for 30 minutes or less in space... Anyone with enough money to blow on this, has WAY too much money. Don't get me wrong, it'd be the coolest thing to experience, but for 99.9% of the Earth's population, it's not worth another mortgage.

Rocket rides for $95,000

Frank Glover, Rochester, NY — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:43:24 GMT

"Of course, the fact that they were going to use Rotary Rocket as their launch vehicle didn't help...Challenger, or no Challenger."

No Steve, that involved an all-rocket VTVL design known as 'Phoenix.' I posted a link detaling it in another thread. Rotary Rocket was much later.

"Just like everything else amazing. It's only affordable by the rich and famous..."

SM, Google the phrase 'early adopter.' Everything has to start somewhere. I bought a TV last year that would've been out of my reach, just a few years earlier...and now, I could get a better one (1080p)and slightly larger, for less money.

Not that suborbital flights (and beyond) will necessairily become *dirt* cheap (But I know it's the only way *I* can get into space, so the sooner we start and closer we get to that, the better), but those who believe that demand and competition mean nothing, that civilization is currently at the end of technological development, and there's no room left for improvement in anything, raise your hands...

...I thought not.

Some people aren't happy unless they can buy a knock-off of something at Wal-Mart, five minutes after it's invented.

Rocket rides for $95,000

Peter, Portland Oregon — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 02:13:09 GMT

I'm always very excited to see these developments and the Lynx is one sexy babe but I'm shocked that people keep referring to this as spaceflight. Or suborbital. It's a high altitude rocket flight. Personally, if I could save up $95,000 then I would put it towards the $200,000 flight for the real deal. Why come so close and blow so much money for a non-space flight?

Now, on the bright side... If they were to airlift Lynx up to 50,000 feet by mating it to White Knight and then launch it would probably make it up to space. That would be cool! I mean hell, Scaled and XCOR are neighbors, White Knight is certainly big enough to carry Lynx (a two seat versus SS1 being a once seat) and Scaled is certainly willing to offer White Knights services so...?

Either way however I'm sure Lynx will be an excellent stepping stone to a true suborbital spaceship. It'll be great to see her fly!

Rocket rides for $95,000

steve smyth — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 09:34:26 GMT

Frank...Rotary Rocket is kinda euphemistic...Roton...Gary Hudson...all one and the same.
The company was called Pacific American Launch Systems at the time of Society Expeditions Project Space Voyage...
Point being...these guys way oversold themselves early on in this foolishness...slowed things down...and many, if not most of the same Folks are still spewing the same gibberish.
If Humans wish to explore Outer Space, Gaia Two is the ticket...if ya wanna ride around in a high flying aircraft with Martha Stewart et al...sensing weightlessness for an instant...try the others.

Rocket rides for $95,000

Frank Glover, Rochester, NY — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:49:15 GMT

"I'm always very excited to see these developments and the Lynx is one sexy babe but I'm shocked that people keep referring to this as spaceflight. Or suborbital. It's a high altitude rocket flight."

I pretty much agree with that, but...

"Personally, if I could save up $95,000 then I would put it towards the $200,000 flight for the real deal. Why come so close and blow so much money for a non-space flight?"

Simple. Some people *can* afford $95k, but *not* $250k. That's all there is to it.

It could also be argued that Virgin Galactic's customers are those who can afford $250k, but can't pony up 100 times as much to fly to ISS.

As long as the passengers (I don't understand why the resistance to calling them that) understand that the peak altitude won't pass the generally recognized point at which 'space' begins, if that's what they want, they can go for it.

You can even get a cheaper, lower experience right now, by paying to fly to 70,000 feet or so on a MiG-25 or MiG-31. And some will continue to do so, because that's as deep as their pockets are. (Or, they may feel that jet fighters are a safer, more mature technology, for now.)

As with most anything else, pay for the level of experience you want and/or can afford.

Rocket rides for $95,000

Frank Glover, Rochester, NY — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:56:39 GMT

"Frank...Rotary Rocket is kinda euphemistic...Roton...Gary Hudson...all one and the same.
The company was called Pacific American Launch Systems at the time of Society Expeditions Project Space Voyage...

Okay, in a general sense, I'll accept that. As Pacific American, he also tried to get support for a low-cost expendable known as 'Liberty.' He clearly wanted very much to be where Elon Musk is today, and then some.

But...

"If Humans wish to explore Outer Space, Gaia Two is the ticket...if ya wanna ride around in a high flying aircraft with Martha Stewart et al...sensing weightlessness for an instant...try the others."

On the other hand, XCOR, Scaled Composites and even Rotary Rocket actually cut metal and flew something.

Where's yours?

Rocket rides for $95,000

steve smyth — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 01:55:33 GMT

Metal...I don't need no stinking metal!...molded foam, Frank.
I do however need the proper papers...like "Where are your papers?
Celebs in Space is not my cup o' tea, Frank.
I flew a frisbee once, does that count?
Gaia Two...Coming Soon...I think the line is 'about two years".