Pay-as-you-go power

Christian Grieco — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 01:23:06 GMT

Alan makes some really good points about the power situation when it comes to charging plug in hybrids when your vehicle is not at home. I just got home a few hours ago from the Boston area where my 2005 Prius was just upgraded to be a plug in hybrid (140 mile drive averaged 66 miles per gallon- lots of big hills on the Massachussetts Turnpike). The car is mainly used to commute 10 miles round trip. There is no easy way at this point to plug in at work (at the local High School). The only plan is to plug in at home and use power produced from my onsite solar electric system. You got me thinking, though, I should bring cookies or other gifts with me when I visit my mom so I don't feel guilty with extension cord in hand wanting to plug in the car to get some needed juice.

I may consider putting a hitch on the Prius and getting a portable solar trailer that would allow remote solar electric charging of the battery pack when the car is at work.

Pay-as-you-go power

Bernie C, Moxee, WA — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 03:33:46 GMT

Right now roads are paid for by the gas tax (generally). What happens when a significant number of cars using the highways are doing so without buying gas (and paying the tax)? Paying for the roads must happen somehow. The gas tax seems to be a fair tax (those who use it most in terms of miles traveled or weight carried pay the most). What will happen?

Pay-as-you-go power

Bob NH, Salem NH — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 03:49:58 GMT

The solution already exists. Transit systems, parking lots, school lunch systems, and Food Stamps use cards with magnetic stripes that record a certain credit that is used to pay for services and the balance is stored on the card. The VERY SAME CARD could be used to pay for electricity usage in a parking lot. Swipe the card when you park and when you leave to pay for the electricity.

You could also have an E-Z-Pass ship on your car that would be debited when you used someon'e parking lot charger.

Pay-as-you-go power

John M, Seattle Wa — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 04:16:59 GMT

Instead of a gas tax, it is clear we need to switch to an odometer tax. Reporting can be done when the car is environmentally inspected and sold.

Pay-as-you-go power

MJ Staley, Tombstone AZ — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 04:47:33 GMT

Re the highway tax, once plug-ins are on-the-road reality, and considering how much damage the gasoline engine is doing to the plan it, we just tax it out of existence (blueprint: cigarettes). These really high taxes can support the highways until the gas engines are gone, which will be a while. In the meantime, we can come up with an equitable highway maintenance plan.

Off subject, one thing I'd sure like to see our next president do is declare that all government replacement vehicles will be plug-ins. I'm taking bets, though, that Arnold will beat them to it.

Pay-as-you-go power

Brad, Mesa AZ — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 05:03:46 GMT

The price to charge a car now is peanuts. And making it difficult to charge a car will lead to people bypassing charging a car. But what I'd like to see everyone start talking about is how we will start paying for our highways. We aren't charging enough with the gas tax we have now. Hydrogen will get taxed, but electricity is a lot tougher nut to crack.

Pay-as-you-go power

Get Educated, N/A — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 06:57:49 GMT

I'm furious when it comes to the perception that electric cars save our environment from fossil fuel emissions. Why isn't anyone talking about coal usage? Well I guess it's because we have a bunch of it in the USA. But let's not forget about it when it comes to emissions.

Okay, you have got to be kidding me. The automotive industry has pulled the wool over the eyes of the scientifically ignorant population yet again with regards to emissions. All I hear is green this green that with the Chevy Volt. Not too mention many other so called "green" technologies, which I won't go into here for the sake of staying within the scope of issue.

Do you really think carbon, nitrogen, sulfur, and mercury emissions are reduced by using this car? If so, think again. When you plug up your, ahem, "green" car you are really polluting more than with gasoline.

This is simply because you are burning more coal per unit mass versus gasoline per unit mass! Gasoline has a much higher higher heating value (HHV) and is cleaner burning. It doesn't take a Phd, MS, BS, or even a high school degree to recognize this fact. This is junior high level math we're talking about here. Open your eyes people. Find the truth.

The majority, 49.5%, of our electricity comes from coal power [DOE, Energy Information Administration, August 2008; sorry they won't allow me to reference html tags here]. Furthermore, 19.2% electricity from natural gas, 1.1% other petroleum, 3.5% hydroelectric, 19.6% nuclear, and 7.1% other which we'll assume to be green tech energy resources. After adding and subtracting we have 69.8% fossil fuel powered electricity. Hmmm. I won't go into exact figures on carbon emitted per unit energy. You don't need to them to realize the carbon emission disparity with respect to gasoline.

We also need to do a little bit of statistics, sorry. What is the probability an electric car user is going to plug-in to a nuclear or green tech powered network based on relative locations of user and plant? That would take a good bit of calculations. But, I know for sure it's much less than 19.6%+7.1%=26.7%, because that would mean 100% of electric car users plug into these non-fossil fuel powered grids.

Okay, so let's say we do save on a little bit of gasoline. Where does all that extra gasoline go? I bet you a dollar that it will be combusted elsewhere. Who are we kidding here?

I challenge someone to prove me wrong. Ooh, and I haven't even touched on the economic disadvantage of using electric cars (hint: they are more expensive).

Sorry to spoil the party everyone. Shame on GM for their greed, for not telling their buyers the truth of the matter when plugging into fossil fueled powered electrical networks. Shame on the population for not educating themselves. If you can divide and multiply, then you do the very basic math need to recognize what I know. Shame on popular media for not reporting the fundamental facts on "green." You guys need to do the very basic math, too.

Pay-as-you-go power

Pete, Reno, NV — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:51:51 GMT

We are talking about significantly increasing demand for electricity: say goodbye to the 50 cent "fill-up." Then come the taxes. What will it cost to put electrical outlets at every parking meter? at each space in the parking lot at work? We will get to pay for that too.

Christian, come drive the Rockies and the Sierra Nevada mountains. We'll show you what "big hills" are. :-) Along with this, the drive from Reno to Las Vegas is 450 miles, without every leaving the state. With gas stops, it takes about 8 hours to make the drive. Given the range of an electric or hybrid vehicle and stops to charge the batteries, does this 8 hr drive now become 12 or 16 hrs or more?

The idea of electrically powered transportation is nice, but until someone starts talking about where this electricity comes from and the technology, from the generator to the wheels, improves immensely, electricity for transportation is not ready for prime time.

Pay-as-you-go power

USA — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:33:40 GMT

It's great too see how quickly we can change things when we want to...in this case switching to electric powered cars and reducing our need for foreign oil.

Pay-as-you-go power

Dennis, Vancouver, BC — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:45:27 GMT

There have been plug-ins for block heaters to prevent freezing in our northern provinces and territories for decades. American states such as North Dakota, Idaho and Minnesota must have similar facilities. Why reinvent the wheel rather than expand a working system?

Pay-as-you-go power

OneVoice, Frederick MD — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:32:22 GMT

I wonder what will happen to the gas station concept. If it takes 4 hrs to charge the battery, the old time gas stations will begin to disappear. Since these guys also provide services such as air for tires, plugging flats, convenience marts and as that saviour you could walk or hitch to with a gas can when you run out on the highway, what kind of service will replace them when a significant amount of the traffic converts to all-electric? Maybe battery trades like we do now for propane tanks? Is anyone working on standards for battery design and installation that would allow hot swaps of batteries?

Pay-as-you-go power

John Doe, Seattle, Wash. — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:05:30 GMT

Just buy a hampster and put him in a wheel attached to a generator. HampsterVeel!

Pay-as-you-go power

David Welch, New Orleans, LA — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:07:55 GMT

Hey, maybe wireless resonant energy will be advanced enough to power cars along highways. Tax that energy to maintain roads.

Pay-as-you-go power

Guy S. Newell — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:35:06 GMT

Electric cars solve a political problem, not an environmental problem. Weather you power your car from oil or coal, you're sill pouring carbon into the atmosphere. If I live 5 miles from work, I would ride a bicycle the 10 miles. I used to ride 15 miles each way. I would again if there was a bicycle lane. Something that doesn't require any new technology at all. Just a genuine commitment to change one's life style.

Pay-as-you-go power

Toby — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:46:32 GMT

How about you just don't plug in when you go home to visit mom? It's not as if plug in hybrids are pure electric vehicles, just bite the bullet and use a little extra gase. The idea of the plug-in is to eleminate gas on your day to day driving, visiting family and friends is not day to day in my opinion.

Pay-as-you-go power

David, Monroe, LA — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 17:59:24 GMT

The Tax issue is a simple enough one to fix, you either make the roads Toll based as alot of the ones in Europe are (which ironically is also how most of the major roads in this country were in its early years) or you move the taxes to someother venue say property taxes. This has the extra advantage of removing tax dollars from Washington which would remove one more thing they can use to blackmail states into doing what they want.

Pay-as-you-go power

S.B. Stein E.B. NJ — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:30:37 GMT

What I would suggest that if buildings have a place that you can charge your car, then they should have either solar cells on the roof or the small wind "power balls" to generate the electricity. When the power is being generated and not being used, there would have to be some storage device like a hydrogen fuel cell or large standard capacitor that has a system that doesn't create spikes when the power flows out again.

As for the roads, there needs to be a way to fund it from all energy sources. Toll roads would become more common place when electric cars become more common.

Pay-as-you-go power

Tom Fields, Idaho Falls, ID — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 18:36:07 GMT

You can find more information about Idaho National Laboratory’s hybrid programs at:
https://inlportal.inl.gov/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=1679&parentname=CommunityPage&parentid=4&mode=2&in_hi_userid=200&cached=true

There is also a feature article about a new hybrid battery monitoring effort at:

https://inlportal.inl.gov/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=1269&mode=2&featurestory=DA_150175

Pay-as-you-go power

Northeast Lineman ( Retired ) — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:00:17 GMT

The electric vehicle/Hybrid is certainly long over due. Our situation, in regard to our energy dependence on questionable foreign sources, needed a fix long ago but apparently no one in Congress or the Presidency had the intestinal fortitude to advance our country's needs. Having said what everyone probably knows, I will offer a little insight into the electric utility's business of distributing power to the masses. Having spent almost thirty five years in the electric utility business as a person directly involved with the construction and maintenance of the electric power lines serving all types of customers, I can testify to the fact that if we added 19 million electric cars to the roadways by 2020, I can tell you, from my perspective, that most of our utilities' infrastructure won't handle that added load. This includes Generation plants, Electric High Voltage Transmission facilities and local Electric Distribution facilities. I have had the opportunity to work in several different utilities in my region of the country and I can tell you, from what I've seen, that they aren't in the best of shape. Ancient equipment. Wooden poles and steel structures pushing 50 to 70 years in age. Thousands of miles of small undersized wire incapable of carrying any more load than it presently has. This is mostly a direct result of Deregulation of the Utility business across this country in the past several years. I can't even imagine plugging in 10 percent of those vehicles. Now that's a problem.

Pay-as-you-go power

Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:46:36 GMT

The power grid in it's present form won't handle the enormous increase in loads that will result. We will have heat waves tht are more intense with global warming and already major centers have enough trouble keeping up with demand during hot times. I find it highly unlikely that solar and wind power will fill the gap.

Pay-as-you-go power

Ryan, Rochester, NY — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 22:14:13 GMT

You know, I think the solution actually lies in mass transit. fully electric busses, intercity monorail systems (the technology is now available to provide coast to coast travel in about the same time as an airplane, and I am assuming, after initail startup costs, it will be a much cheaper ticket.) Imagine a monorail in the middle of the interstate highway!!These things can revolutionize the way we look at the world and our lives.

Pay-as-you-go power

Marc J, Woodbridge, NJ — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:32:48 GMT

one thing I never hear talked about in regards to "plug-ins" is... where is all that extra electricity going to come from? With rolling brown-outs and blackouts every summer, we can't keep up with existing electrical demand. Now add the projected 19 million plug-in cars by 2020, who is going to be generating all that extra juice. Nuclear power plants aren't getting built and solar and wind doesn't stand a chance of keeping up with demand.

How about so-called "clean coal"? Environmental law makes strip mining other large-scale coal mining strategies illegal.

Wind power decimates bird populations... produces noise pollution and the economics don't work out (the cost of a wind turbine is greater than the cost of the electricity it will produce over its expected lifetime. The economics of current wind farms are made up through tax subsidies, which passes on the cost to John Q Taxpayer)

Oh, and where is the money going to come from to upgrade the electrical grids to deliver all of this extra electricity? More transmission lines, more transformers, more distribution capacity, along with the additional required generation capacity.

As for the guy putting a hitch on his Prius to tow around a portable solar trailer... what's that going to do to your gas mileage?

What's going to be done with all those worn-out batteries? They aren't recyclable and aren't very nice to the environment.

Like the so-called "hydrogen economy" there are a lot more questions to be answered before "plug in cars" become something other than a curiousity

Pay-as-you-go power

Peter Oppewall, Chicago, Illinois — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 03:58:39 GMT

Here is an open information project on development of electric vehicle infrastructure here in the US, including companies involved in providing related services and technology
http://EVtransPortal.com/cerip.html

Pay-as-you-go power

sua — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 15:31:32 GMT

All this talk about roads and electric power grids is old thinking...stop looking for solutions in the past and start thinking that we might not need any roads or electric power grids....you got to have wheels to need roads and electric appliances to need power grids.

Pay-as-you-go power

kris — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 16:34:22 GMT

As to batteries...(not sure about these kind ) but regular car batteries are 95% recycleable... i would think these are as well. As to power for them.... I hope everyone will be making changes to the way they live with power usage so that the need will come down even as demand goes up.
I want solar and (or) wind for our house and hope to have it with in 5 years. As to subs on these powers... Nuk was 100% goverment made all those years ago for goverment reasons. As to gas we give subs to them. If we took the subs for that... solar and other green power would be competive in 2-3 years. So power would come from that.... plus do not forget our city dumps.... all that methan going to waste.
I hope we as a planet change.... for our childrens sake.

Pay-as-you-go power

Phillip WEst — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:46:20 GMT

I’m not arguing with the technology, in fact I submitted invention disclosures to my company over ten years ago on a very similar yet still different system to be shot down. Nevertheless, I read this article and others and see the same bogus statements made over and over. These “oversights” leave me dubious of the reports and the success. First; “energy” is kilowatt- hours not kilowatts. Secondly the amounts of energy noted and especially cost for that energy, for the tasks quoted do not make sense. Perhaps fixing the units would help. Lastly and most importantly, when computing “mileage” it is very misleading to drive on the battery then kick in some fuel mileage then calculate the mpg by using the whole distance divided by the fuel used. Why not just drive a few miles on the battery only and divide by zero!
Another thing a reader needs to know is that this technology buys you nothing for long distance highway use. Using the fueled engine on a hybrid is going to deliver the same (or less) as is possible on a fuel only vehicle.

[ALAN ADDS: Consider me chastened over the kilowatt vs. kilowatt-hour point. The folks I interviewed were throwing around the term "kilowatt" without the "hour" part, and I fell into that bad habit.

[The figures for cost of energy that I heard were 10 cents per kilowatt-hour (from INL) and 7 cents per kilowatt-hour (for Seattle City Light). I see that some areas of the country have significantly higher power costs (for example, 22 cents per kwh in May 2008 for Rhode Island). Washington state has some of the lowest electrical rates in the country, I suspect mainly due to hydro power. Is that price disparity what you're referring to when you say the numbers don't quite add up?

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_a.html

[On the total cost of driving, there is definitely an advantage, a huge advantage, for the segments of a drive that don't rely on the gasoline engine. That's why, once the engine was warmed up, the recorded "mileage" for a short drive in West Seattle was around 250 mpg. I think I noted in my story on plug-ins (which is linked from the blog item) that the advantage fades away for long-distance driving. But the advantage is very striking for, say, a 20-mile commute to work. That's where plug-in hybrids yield 100-plus miles per gallon of gasoline. Of course there's the cost of the electricity to consider, but that is minuscule, according to INL's Jim Francfort. The electricity cost is factored into the trip-cost readings that V2Green's software provides, by the way.

[With on-the-road fast-charging for travelers, or at-work charging for commuters, the electric advantage can be extended even for longer trips. I guess that's one of the points I was trying to make in the blog.

[I personally am anxious to put the promise of the Chevy Volt to the test ... to drive back and forth to work (10 miles total per day) without using a bit of gas, but still have that boost available for the 285-mile drive over to Spokane. So GM, if you're looking for a test driver, drop a line.]

Pay-as-you-go power

Chris Anderson — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:50:18 GMT

There is no need to change our current electrical distribution system as most people would charge their cars during the night when electricity demand is signficiantly lower than during peak times. This means that during off peak times the surplus generation capacity could be used to charge your plug in. If it came to installing new equipment (generation capacity, high voltage lines, electrical substations etc)... it will happen if there is a market for it. In fact it may be the catalyst required to get electrical utilities in the mindset of bettering and increasing our electrical infastructure. As far as driving long distances you could leave the plug in at home and take the old gas hog out for a long trip. In other words plug ins are designed mainly for day to day around town driving. Electric cars would reduce the so called "carbon footprint" because think of how often your car sits idling at a red light or during rush hour. In an electric car the motor would simply turn off, saving energy, and hence reducing the amount of carbon required to produce that energy.

Pay-as-you-go power

North East Lineman ( Retired ) — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 00:49:21 GMT

"If it came to installing new equipment (generation capacity, high voltage lines, electrical substations etc)... it will happen if there is a market for it. In fact it may be the catalyst required to get electrical utilities in the mindset of bettering and increasing our electrical infrastructure."

The factual point, that was made by me, was an attempt to educate people to fact that all Isn't well with the health of the Transmission and Distribution, (especially the distribution,) Systems in large areas of the country. This knowledge is based on what I have personally experienced in my 35 years in the business. Short of doing a video expose' to prove my point. I am quite confident in my stated judgement. Substation equipment is old and worn, Wooden and steel Structures are sufficiently aged and degraded much below their intended design parameters. Current carrying conductors ( the wires ) are undersized, brittle and full of splices in many places and insulators are leaking to ground.

Certainly the utilities will show case their new construction projects and rebuilds but I can tell you, as a matter of fact, that not all is well in the Electric Utility business. Why do customers suffer longer and longer outages? Because the poles, wires, lightning arresters, cross arms, etc. can't take the same storm "Loads" that they could 40 plus years ago.( Any particular circuit could take a 50 or 60 mile per hour wind load when it was new 40 or 50 years ago with much less damage. Plus the rain and ice loads. Today, a 20 to 30 MPH wind will knock it down and out for hours. ) Maintenance is the name of the game. They are just unwilling to spend what they need to spend to bring the systems up to twenty first century standards. Profits over reliability.

Pay-as-you-go power

Get Educated, N/A = Texas — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 06:59:55 GMT

[Do such developments represent a paradigm shift for the electric grid?] Yes, if every American ditches their gas cars at the same time. See below for more.

[Will electric cars (and hybrids) finally break our dependency on oil?] Probably not. See below for more.

[Or is all this merely a sideshow in the great energy debate?] Yes. Car corporations are concerned about their bottom line, which includes improving their short-term image. The American auto industry is bleeding from a huge gash that won't close in the foreseeable near future. So they are getting desperate as I see here with this Volt.
**************************************************
There's is no denying the fact that charging an electric vehicle is super cheap; score one very big positive check. But how can we take advantage of this functionality if we don't have the infrastructure? If we can, then this is potentially a killer technology for oil independence.

We need to not forget about the economic relationship between oil, electric, and electric companies, all separate, massive corporate entities. I'm not sure how the ultra-rich American automotive corporations will divorce themselves from the worldwide, mega-ultra rich oil corporations. Assuming they do, then the electric corporations will come out ahead. If this is the case, then they'll need to make major changes.

There are definitely problems with the current electrical distribution infrastructure, as others have noted in this forum. The electrical grid will of course need an expansion or overhaul if not a complete a redesign. And of course it will need a complete rebuild if we go all electric cars. This would be too expensive and therefore doesn't make much economical sense.

It is very clear that the relationship between the energy and auto corporations must arrive at an equilibrium point. In addition, environmental factors must absolutely be considered into forming a complete picture of what is needed. This would be the ideal way to approach the matter of efficient and effective energy management.

Absolute oil independence is not reasonable nor possible. Realistically, American auto and worldwide oil will always need each other and we need for both of them to healthily exist for the sake of having jobs for Americans to work and, furthermore, for political and economic stability. Gas and coal represent the majority of our energy usage, therefore we must focus improving management of these particular sources.

The best short-term solution would be to integrate gas-electric hybrid technologies. Kinetic energy recovery systems supplemented by a significant emphasis on battery charging from the grid would give better drive efficiency and excellent range. This would take some weight off the distribution problem and reduce coal and gas emissions by a small amount for the time being.

The idea of 19 million electric vehicles produced, purchased, and running in the next ten years is not reasonable.

It's apparent that business and technology is not evolving fast enough to keep up with current needs.

Consumers: do not believe what the auto corporations are advertising as green technology. This includes media people, too. Ask yourselves, how many hybrids are out there compared to gas powered right now? How many E85 or diesel-biofuel stations out there? Hydrogen? Forget about it for at least 20 years when Americans start really running out of oil.

Send a message to these greedy entities and let them know we will not be fooled and force them to really drop environmentally ineffective technology. They've already got a good hint on the message, as we have seen with the billions of dollars they are losing to high gas prices. OPEC no longer will tolerate the USA hogging the world's dwindling oil resources. Come on, America uses 25% of the oil out there with no reduction in sight. I think that's the main reason why our gas prices are so high. Shhh, it's a secret!

The ultimate power is with the people. We done spent too much money and now look. It's time to be efficient.

NOTE: Discussion and debate about nuclear power in the media or government policy is very limited. Nuclear power is an existing, viable energy source that needs to be seriously considered. Sure there's the toxic waste, but let's consider it so we start coming up with solutions.

Pay-as-you-go power

Chris Anderson — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:41:47 GMT

I'm not arguing the point that adding millions of plug in hybrids won't break the back of our electrical distribution system. Nor am I saying that the current system is operating optimally. I understand that de-regulation in the power industry is one of the leading causes of neglect to our power infastructure. What I am saying is that during off peak times there is a good chunk of capacity available that could be used to charge hybrids without streching our already bursting at the seams power grid. I mean during off peak times most of the equipment is operating only a fraction of its rated capacity. I there 9 million hybrids worth of excess energy during off peak times? Of course not, but enough to provide electricity for a fair number of cars. I would have to run the numbers to tell you exactly how main a "fair number" is. If energy consumption continues to grow, which it will, (especially if we use plug in hybrids) then eventually the power companies cannot put another milliwatt of power into the lines without them catching fire or blowing a transformer. At that point they will have to install new capacity or face the wrath of a nation in darkness. They will grumble about installing new equipment, but every company that is expanding its operations complains about capital investment. Also I agree that it is impossible to completely rid ourselves of foreign oil supplies, although we can take measures to try and reduce that (additional domestic drilling, nuclear power etc...). The flip side is that I expect rapidly developing countries such as China to increase their demand for oil much quicker than we can reduce ours... net result, higher gas prices.

Pay-as-you-go power

Jose Nose — Fri, 01 May 2009 21:08:08 GMT

I was thinking something around this line yesterday. something about the smartgrid

you will see, I see a big problem in the way electricity (and may apply for other manifestations of energy) is produce-distributed-consumed

Basically: producers are at mercy of consumers whim. If you plug whatever to your ac outlet, producer can not say 'NO', the distribution system FORCES to provide the electricity 'on-demand'. They can not say, NO, or, NOT NOW, or PLEASE COME BACK LATER or, IT WILL BE READY ON ONE HOUR.
NAaaahhhh..if consumer cries, 'i want xxx watts power now, for as long as I want, cause I am paying for it' they have to provided and adjust production on REAL TIME. Sometimes that is posible, if the new load is small compared with the production capabilities
But everytime the load is around the same order the magnitude of the production capability, things goes berseck and utilities have to dance the dance big way

All the madness is because we have a mad distribution system, basically they put the lines and the all-you-eat party was started. The more you consume, the more american you are. restrain is for weaks. So now we are seeing the consequences of bad planning. Tough I admit back then had their minds full with the basic problem of producing the electricity. There was no space for such things like ;what the heck will happen when this grows to XXX consumers , jumping all at the same time and the old trick of building more plants is not good anymore.

I believe it would be better if when you plug any load into the electric grid, the electricity may not be provide right away. The load will know its consumption, send a request for 'xxx amount of power in the form of vv volts and aaa amps, and then get an asnwer like AVAILABLE NOW, NOT AVAILABLE, GRID MAX OUT, COME BACK LATER' etc
I guess it does not make sense something like that for a phone charger, but for cars, dryers, refrigerator, and other things like that, it may make sense. Producer would be able to adapt their systems and it is my believe much energy will be saved because production will be more orderly

I know, it will require a massive shift, but can the world NOT afford to do it. I believe there is much waste because this 'consumer is king' type of thing.

And I also wonder if the current status of affairs has help to shape the energy-waster type of mentality. Think about it, you just plug all your electrical stuff to the ac outlet and then magic happens, and it start working right away. That is because the big problem is put squared only in the shoulder of the producer. It is at the production plants that people has to go nuts because people do nutty things on the other end. If we would be faced to think about, and deal with electricity like a non-magical always available kind of thing, people will think twice and waste less. Some can be say for water, gasoline and sewage. Tough regulating sewage is a really stinky kind of thing. I guess that one is better left unlimited (for now)

Of course noone wants to listen to this, becase it is about efficiency. All the suits in the utilities understand is producing more, and more profits. All the neurons are reserved for GREED, not GOODWILL.
Most probably they will see me as a dangerous revolutionay infiltrator comunist anti-american capitalist-slayer, osama-bin-laden type of people (if people at all)

Pay-as-you-go power

Phil Port Angeles, Wash — Wed, 27 May 2009 04:49:50 GMT

I think solar panels and plug in hybrids will go hand in hand to rescue our energy problem. If intelligent charging is the norm, we already have enough electricity to support our entire fleet. Those who charge during the day, (at work or shopping, etc.), can be handled by solar panel output.

Pay-as-you-go power

wes mullen — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 05:34:09 GMT

with the lack of jobs and wages down to an average of $10 an hour who can afford a $40,000 Chevy Volt and sloar panels on thier roof anyhow, ...dream on green man.