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Max Connors — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:07:01 GMT

I'm a little baffled by all the hype. The media is mostly to blame for this, although you have done a great job of reporting the facts.

It's not as if this thing has a giant switch that when turned on will go "Boom!". It will be weeks...possibly even months before collisions will even take place. People forget that there are other colliders that are doing this kind of research every day. It will be even longer before the LHC ramps up the energies to compare with what is already being done elsewhere.

At the moment they are only testing...there is no chance of anything happening for the moment. The media at large fails to mention this.

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iglooo — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:19:15 GMT

I feel that when someone asks to STOP such experiments, is like acting against Science and the advancement of Science.

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Kevin, Seattle, WA — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:24:29 GMT

http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/

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Rob Maher, Shrewsbury, MA — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:38:30 GMT

Money, politics...what can you do? I think the LHC is pretty interesting. I got a great laugh out of the concerns about black holes sucking up the Earth! Some of the comments in today's article concern me, though. If that's really representative of feedback you've gotten, science (and English) are in much worse shape than I thought! It sounds like parents are having their children write some of the comments - kids just don't sound like that. As for the adults, including scientists, they are especially ignorant. They truly are clueless.

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perpetual apoplexy personified — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:42:22 GMT

BRAVO!!!!
It's all about the Kids!
Good on ya, Alan!

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kc — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:50:58 GMT

The day before the experiment, my 8-yr-old son came back from school and started asking all kinds of questions about the experiment that his teachers and fellow students were talking about. I sensed fear in him.
Me, being clueless, started looking up in the Internet. After about 5-10 mins, I explained to my kid that, No, the world is not going to end, blow up, collapse, and no doomsday, etc. Just some experiment that some scientists were doing in Europe.
All I know is some people should not explain or send messages to kids when they don't even have a clue what it's about...

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Shawn, Chicago, Il — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:59:42 GMT

FYI,
Y2K was a real event that took many fine folks long hard hours to prevent from being a disaster. Don't minimize their effort by flippantly insinuating that it was all a fraud. It's best not to let your ignorance show too much.

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Alan Boyle — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:07:45 GMT

Shawn, I'm not talking strictly about the computer issue. Sadly, almost all of our pre-Y2K coverage has been wiped out (due to the way our database has changed over the years rather than a computer bug). But I wrote quite a few "end of the world" stories back then. In fact, I kept up a Y2K Eve ticker that could arguably be considered one of the first attempts to liveblog a news event. A quote from this post-Katrina story provides just a hint about how far the Y2K scare went:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9731623/page/2/

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Three eyes open, Pitt, PA — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:12:03 GMT

Reading how simple minded and easily spooked so many people are, I could not finish this article. It did nothing but raise my bloodpressure to know there are people out there who likely only read titles and headers and assume the worst. Unfortunalty i dealt with a nut that was all freaked out about Y2K and how he knew it would be a disaster. He later walked the halls of the college shamefuly with his hung low and stuck to the shadows. Its amusing how we are a race of simpletons, and the few who push the limits for the sake of progress are sometiems ridiculed or looked down upon as if they are terrible and foolish. I suppose it is all part of the balance of things to have the simple minded fools of society to keep those who wish to advance society in check. I am ashamed to know I am part of the race of those people who panic before educating themselves on the subject. I cannot describe the level of disgust and frustration I feel right now. Boo to you superstitious sheep who hide from anything strange.

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Evan — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:13:33 GMT

I'm going to have to second the "are you serious?" comment that you received. Was it really worth it sacrificing your self-respect to lure in and then mislead casual readers?

You start this article with the sentence "This week's startup of Europe's Large Hadron Collider didn't generate a big bang or a black hole." Of course it didn't. And I don't mean of course it didn't because that notion is ridiculous and unfounded (which it is). I mean of course it didn't because the collisions taking place at the LHC were fixed target collisions. The center of mass energies for those collisions were lower than those that have been taking place thousands of times per second in American colliders for years. I guess mentioning that wouldn't serve the purpose of manipulating your readers emotions?

You say "don't panic" but you (and others like you) are the reason that the public is so painfully misinformed about the LHC in the first place. You should have, from the start, been making it clear that there is virtually no risk in starting up the LHC.

Anybody can get scared about a giant science machine that they don't understand. It takes a physicist to understand that there is no reason to be frightened. As a science writer you should be relating this information to your readers! When you encourage them, even in the slightest, to entertain these ridiculous doomsday ideas you're hurting science! You're turning public opinion and public funding away from an area where it belongs and you're increasing a level of ignorance in the public mind that embarrasses me as an American. The percentage of citizens who believe in creationism or don't believe in global warming is already bad enough. Do we really need them to think that the LHC is going to cause the end of the world?

Do you not feel any responsibility as a science writer to try to demystify science for the public?

I'm sorry if this reply was cold. It's addressed more at the media in general that at you specifically. As a physicist it just really saddens me to see the media selling fear about the LHC. I guess I should expect it.

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Wheelwatcher CA — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:18:28 GMT

The doomsday panic reminds me of the panic generated by "War of the World's" radio show back in the 30's. What can you do about ridiculous unfounded worries? You can't get more energy out of something than you put into it, which would be required for the LHC to consume itself and the rest of the world.

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Scott Bowker, Forest Park, IL — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:20:31 GMT

The only reason people are scared of what the LHC might do is the constant fear mongering by the press, this page included. LHC end of the world scenarios are not the story we should be reading about. We should be reading about the advancement of scientific understanding and this remarkable human achievement by CERN and everyone else involved in the project.

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steve smyth — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:22:19 GMT

Alan...I'll back you up on the pre-Y2K stuff...can't remember the liveblog event, because I never paid any attention to that part...but I recall all the other reportage.
Shawn...flippin insinuation ain't Alan's style...I bin readin' this here writin' fer a long while...consistantly objective reportage on subjective issues is a skill not many have mastered...not many!

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me, ca — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:29:16 GMT

The most scary thing about this is the non-science (pun intended) that people talk. The general public debating the safety of an experiment with CERN scientists is so funny - I'm off to tell those people at NASA how to get to get a man to Mars!

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DS in NJ — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:37:18 GMT

I got a idea for parent: eat your spinach or CERN will destroy the Earth.

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Rob Maher, Shrewsbury, MA — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:43:39 GMT

Alan - you've got some pretty sensitive readers. Y2K was certainly real - more real than black holes in Europe sucking us up - but there was a lot of hype around that. I was involved in working on the Y2K problem for the company I was working for at the time, so I know it was a lot of work. But I remember a lot of end-of-the-world hype. I thought counters, such as yours, were pretty funny. Ignorance and fear are a bad combination. I can't believe some of what I read about this LHC though. The world is not going to end. The science is amazing and will deepen our understanding the universe. It's exciting. Kids should be encouraged by it, not have the fear of End of Days put in them!

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Jack — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:48:52 GMT

Y2K is perhaps the finest example on computer science collaboration, although most people see it as a fraud and a hoax. Furthermore, many people cry about how the SSC couldn't get going. The point is: they were not at the right time on the right place, these new people did. Also, if we continue with this "God vs. Science" subject, I am moving of fields to Agnosticism, because sincerely, Science tries to explain the laws of nature, and consequently God (since God is the creator of nature) or at least to my understanding.

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Jack — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:51:37 GMT

Oh yeah, and the long reply you got Alan, you deserve it.

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Alan Boyle — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 00:58:10 GMT

Scott and Evan: If you haven't seen all the stories in our LHC coverage this week, why not start here and work your way through?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24525554/

... Or you can look over the portal page for the coverage:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24601895/

I hope you'll find that I've covered all the angles in terms of the scientific mysteries the LHC is designed to address, as well as the engineering wonders that have been created to address those mysteries.

Evan, I think I have mentioned repeatedly that this week's "First Beam" was at low energies and that beam collisions won't occur for weeks. Perhaps you missed those references, even though I thought I made it clear in this very item. The "no big bang, no black holes" was a rhetorical device to get into the subject of the item. I'm sorry that didn't work for you.

I'm glad you pointed out that there were some fixed-target collisions, which basically occurred when the protons hit barriers that had been set up at points around the ring.

I do think we have to address the doomsday talk, to explain where it arises and deal with it, because people will be picking this up from the Internet in any case. As you'll see from the links listed above, I've been writing about this issue with regard to the LHC for two years now ... and before that, I've been writing about the issue as it related to RHIC since 1999:

http://www.phenix.bnl.gov/WWW/lists/phenix-news-l/msg00596.html

(Now that I review that item, it's interesting to note that the breakdown on the RHIC Live Vote is very close to what it is for the LHC Live Vote.)

I'll be writing about the doomsday debate again, sorry to say. The judge in the federal case against the DOE (and CERN) is considering whether to throw the suit out, and there's a hearing due on the plaintiffs' request for a default judgment against CERN. Just today that hearing was rescheduled from Sept. 25 to Oct. 14. I suspect that the suit as well as the request for summary judgment will be thrown out, but you never know. Then there's the case against CERN in the European Court of Human Rights. I have to follow up on these issues.

I'll also be writing about the remarkable scientific and engineering achievements from the LHC - and I hope you don't mind if I ask you to help keep me up to date on that front.

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cyberbian — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:13:40 GMT

I read yesterday that there is less chance of the LHC destroying the earth, than of your winning the lottery!

That is indeed comforting. What is not being taken into consideration is that people win lotterys every day!

If you knew what was going to be the outcome, it would not be an experiment. The earth is no man's to gamble away!

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Peter Costanza — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:19:43 GMT

What caused the Big Bang? Science passes on that, by defining the question as beyond the scope of scientific inquiry.

Ought we to consider the possibility that it was a distinguished crew of 8-armed nuclear physicists with a lot of hubris and a *really big* collider? The complete failure of the SETI search renders this a non-trivial speculation.

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Evan — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:27:26 GMT

Alan,

I really didn't mean my comments to be a personal attack on you. I haven't read most of your articles and this article isn't particularly bad. In fact, my words are too strong for a reply to this article and probably to your others as well. I just hate to see the general trend in the media and happened to respond to it here (truthfully I was inspired by your inclusion of readers' comments).

The media has a reputation for selling fear, violence, etc, but the LHC is quite possible the single most awesome achievement in the entire history of mankind. It goes far beyond being a largely unprecedented technical and organizational accomplishment. It's a tool that is going to help further are understanding of the fundamental nature of existence. It's at the forefront of scientific progress in general, paving the way towards a future of collaborative science while successfully crossing many national and political boundaries. It should be easy to interest people without resorting to fear!

I respect that you tried to calm people's concerns in this article and again my comments weren't directed at you in particular. I'll keep an eye on your future coverage. I hope you don't disappoint me ;-).

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Ted Santosusso, Tempe, AZ — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:35:34 GMT

Don't fret Alan, most of us have your back and truly appreciate the clever and insightful reporting you're doing. Also, just a quick question for you: If, on the off chance, the LHC DID create a black hole, wouldn't we be gone before we could even mutter, "oops!"?

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Wheelwatcher CA — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 01:58:55 GMT

Keep writing this stuff, Alan. I always like getting any news I can about the LHC. But I think people should worry more about the radiation this thing is likely to produce rather than any far out doomsday event. This thing will very likely produce particles that can leak right through the entire earth at a much larger rate than occurs naturally. I do approve of the science but people are worried about the wrong things. I wonder if all this doomsday stuff is a smokescreen to hide the very real (although subtle) enviromental problems this thing could cause. If the plantiffs in the law suite want a valid case, they should concentrate on the environmental radiation damage, which I am sure will occur to some degree. 300 feet of rock is no shielding against neutrinos (which are known particles to exist in nature), and who knows what other particles will be produced in what intensity and energies? Regarding the super collider experiment, I also was involved with that in a small part and in the long term, feel it would have been money wasted. The LHC is an international investment and not just USA taxpayers footing the bill.

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john, new york — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 02:04:22 GMT

excuse me professor boyle,
There is something i need to get off my chest and a serious question i need to ask. With techonolgy developing at a rate that no one could have perdicted. What is to prevent people from misusing this technology. On the science channel i see programs on "posthumanity" "making super powers real" I don't wish to sound rude or offend anyone but it seems nowadays scientists treat the universe like their sandbox. I actually heard them using the word "man made god". It all boils down to the just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. The super collider seems like to help a great deal but i worry that this world changing technology will fall in to the hands of people who "ethics and morals" are in the dumps. Is there any articles you can point me to that will explain what is being down to ensure this is not abused? Do you believe it is possibly for us to advance further technology wise without destroying ourselves? I always found a star trek future very amazing.

[ALAN ADDS: Please, just call me Alan. The only advanced degree I have is an M.S. in journalism, and the only stints of academia I've had are two quick shots at lecture gigs. I don't really have a good solid reference for you on this issue. I can only point out that these pioneering science projects are getting so big that they have to be conducted by international collaborations. Which might be a hopeful sign. On the other hand, nuclear weapons programs are getting more affordable, which is not a good thing. If I come up with any better answer I'll try to address that in a future posting, and I'm sure some of the reader/commenters out there will have some great suggestions.]

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daniel la — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 02:05:12 GMT

The author is a true expert at condescension, but a bit on the too obvious side.

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Matt — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 02:06:03 GMT

I recently watched your program "The Big Bang Machine" on the SCI channel. During the program you show on a computer screen what happens with a single proton to proton colision. I noticed that on the lower right side of the colision you can see small dots almost with a binary look and they appear to be spaced out as though creating rings as they move away from the center of the collision. You can also see other dot's that are spaced far appart however appear to be parts of the same rings that I see in the clusters. Anyhow have a look on you tube at an old video tittled "The two most important crop circles ever.No joke" In this short video they show a large crop circle with what is described to be a binary code. I believe it may not be a binary code but is a sign of what your colisions will look like when the machine begins to collide atoms at near light speed. Do the dot's I saw on you program represent important data during a collision or are only the Muon lines that appear in red and the other lines the relevant data? In the crop circle video they also show a mystery Molecule, they say nobody know's what it is. Is it possible that smashing together two atoms could create this molecule?

[ALAN ADDS: Matt, I haven't seen the show yet so I can't really answer your questions.]

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Alan Boyle — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 02:16:31 GMT

Wow, this could be a full-time job. (Come to think of it, this *is* my full-time job, although you should know that I do other stuff around here as well.)

- First, for Evan, thanks for keeping me honest. I have to say that I was brought up short by last week's report about the threats and this week's e-mail from kids (I've printed just a couple of the representative e-mails, and it got to the point that I was no longer approving "scared kid" comments because that was just not useful). So I hear you and am probably thinking more carefully about what I'm writing as a result. (At least I hope so.)

- For Cyberbian, the usual way people describe the risk is by supposing that the same person wins the lottery not just once, but three times in a row. (I believe this is based on Sir Martin Rees' estimate that the chances of a catastrophe were 1 in 50 million.)

The problem with Rees' claim is that it inherently assumes that the LHC growing-black-hole scenario is allowed. That is, it's not a question of possibility but probability. The recent work by the LSAG and Giddings-Mangano, in contrast, pleads the case that if the scenario were possible, it would have had to have taken place many times in the billions of years among the billions of stars that are out there. If it's possible, the probability would approach 1-out-of-1 for dense objects that are exposed to cosmic rays. So I don't think the lottery analogy is useful, even though it has been widely used. If I'm wrong about this, please set me straight.

- For Ted, maybe the way to cast the question is to wonder what would happen if a *bigger* black hole somehow came to Earth. A couple of stories have dwelled on this bigger-black-hole scenario:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/09/080909-black-hole.html

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/09/10/black-hole-cern.html

Last year, I discussed black holes in depth (heh, heh) with Neil Tyson, author of "Death by Black Hole":

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16971750/

For a whole book about the bigger-black-hole scenario, check out David Brin's "Earth," which we discussed in the log a couple of days ago.

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Dave BC WA — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 02:30:38 GMT

Scott, Evan,
Most of the stuff Alan talks about is way over my head. But I do know one thing. He has never said anything that would make me nervous about the LHC. From day one he has tried to make me and others understand it’s safe and no need to panic.

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Deanna — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 02:36:21 GMT

ok. NO ONE PANIC.
if its gonnna blow up, then its part of Gods plan. plus its prophesy that when Jesus comes back the world is going to be REALLY messed up. personally i would be in awe if the world could get any worse. but dont panic. just keep on living. and those of you who arent Christians or arent right with God right now, maybe he's trying to speak to you through this.
pay attention to the signs God gives you.

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Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 02:42:06 GMT

No big bang, no black holes was also appropriate because so many people have seemed to be under the impression that several milliseconds after "flipping the switch" the world would be sucked in. But no body said that in this thread, so I guess the commenters, who so obviously know all about Alan's work, you know, because they can read, wouldn't have known that.

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James Tankersley Jr, Middleton WI — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 02:44:42 GMT

Obviously this is not an issue for children. But adults need to discuss issues of risk, responsibility and oversight. I posted the following on the discussion page of the Wikipedia article: Safety of the Large Hadron Collider:

...published in the UK Telegraph yesterday "We must be wary of scientific research" By Gerald Warner

"International law needs to wake up to the scientific challenges of the 21st century. Scientists are now dealing with forces so potentially destructive they cannot be allowed to exercise their discretion. Decisions to proceed with certain types of research should not be taken within the magic circle of "the academy", where the presumption is always in favour of enhancing knowledge rather than taking precautions. We need an international authority, dominated by laymen but with access to expert technical opinion. The precautionary principle should prevail."

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Alan Boyle — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 02:52:17 GMT

I appreciate the comments from kids who say that they're scared, but I am not approving these comments anymore because I'm not sure that is helpful. So if you're a kid with concerns (like you, Summer), write about *why* you're scared (or have your parents help you) and we'll try to explain things for you.

Here is a story on the subject that may be helpful for parents:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7610413.stm

The article includes this advice, and maybe this is something worth discussing:

"[Justine Roberts of Mumsnet] recommends that parents be 'overwhelmingly reassuring', even if they harbour nagging doubts.

"'If you look evasive, your child will pick up on that. Answer them directly but give the minimum amount of information. And dealing with worse case scenarios is part of growing up.'

"Psychologist Alex Griffiths suggests focussing on the reality and risk, keeping the science simple and the outlook positive.

"Such as? 'Experimentation is a good thing. Government and scientists are not going to spend large amounts of money on something that could harm us. Lots of thought will have gone into it and what is likely to come out of it.' ..."

------ALAN AGAIN:------

P.S., I'm not going to be approving any additional messages that say nothing more than "Please Don't Start It Up, I Don't Want to Die." I think we've gotten the point on that sentiment.

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donna sheehan marshall, california — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 02:53:55 GMT

Attention all male and some female scientists:
Before you spend any more time and money, please consider focusing on understanding the female AND the female understanding male. More psychological and brain science PLEASE. We NEED partnership in all cultures for our species to survive. Sincerely, DS Evolutionary Behaviorist/activist/researcher ps the timing of this event is thoughtless with endemic fear that already exists over global warming, etc. etc.

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Grant Ellis, Comfort, TX — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 03:22:35 GMT

As an "energy guy" (renewable and otherwise), my observation is that "ordinary folk" cannot grasp the scale of something as simple as a 1.5 megawatt wind turbine much less anything associated with "giga" or "terra" quantities. Frankly, this is why the global warming crowd is able to scare the daylights out of so many people. The problem: a severe shortage in basic science knowledge. Some practical exposure to things like Boyle's Law, Joule-Thompson, Lenz's Law, Newton's Laws and perhaps above all, Conservation of Energy might help. Without a basic foundation in fundamental science, well meaning people can be led to believe almost anything...like this stuff is magic or alchemy.

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Robert — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 03:27:18 GMT

Black holes are so misunderstood. It takes enormous amounts of mass to generate the gravity that is a black hole. What are we talking about, tiny particles? Are they massive enough to create black holes?
Particles are colliding everyday. Are we talking about smashing an atom? Then would that create an atomic explosion instead? Haha! Uh, haha!

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Evan — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 03:30:11 GMT

-Wheelwatcher,

You said "This thing will very likely produce particles that can leak right through the entire earth at a much larger rate than occurs naturally... 300 feet of rock is no shielding against neutrinos (which are known particles to exist in nature)." This really isn't anything to worry about though. If a particle can pass through the earth (or even 300 feet of rock) then it certainly isn't going to interact with any plant or animal life that is only a few meters thick. Neutrinos can pass through the earth because they don't interact via the electromagnetic or strong forces. They only interact via gravity and the weak force, but these things have so little mass that the gravitational interaction (with just one neutrino) is basically 0. The cross section for weak nuclear interactions is absurdly small and so neutrinos can easily pass through the entire diameter of the earth. Neutrinos pass through you all the time and don't do any damage at all.

-John

You ask "What is to prevent people from misusing this technology?" Personally I don't think that this technology is particularly dangerous. Most of the technological advancements being made for the construction of supercolliders is centered around the detectors. Machines for detecting the paths of particles. You're a lot more likely to see bits of this technology eventually making their way into digital cameras than into a weapon. Advancements are also made in dealing with huge rates of data transfer and storage (I'm speaking abstractly, these advances can also be open source software ones). These advances are a lot more likely to eventually improve the quality of the internet than to make their way into a weapon. I'm sure that you've heard that the world wide web was developed at CERN.

The real bottom line is that nuclear weapons are THE dangerous weapon. Neither the technology used at LHC nor the discoveries they make there have anything to do with those. I don't see how a superconducting magnet could be more dangerous than a hydrogen bomb.

Do you have any specific concern?

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Alex, Sidney, NY — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 03:58:03 GMT

Well, I would like to ask people to stop saying "Wait till we have another planet to go to". Because if a black hole began to consume earth... it wouldn't stop there. The only chance we would have would be to create a wormhole to another solar system and/or galaxy... and that can only be done with a collider even bigger than the LHC! So in my opinion GO FOR IT!!!!

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"itsbutme" Bob Daymond, Gold Coast, Australia — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 04:33:17 GMT

Alan,as a sixty-one-year-old who, a decade ago took his severely disabled wife to high ground for fear of a possible comet-caused tsunami, only to have her die nine years later of complications relating to her health, I find it now amuses me that you now talk about the end of the world as we now know it.

You might recognise me now as one who is,"Once bitten...twice shy".

Thankfully, it seems I now have this basic trust in God that overcomes all fear, just as I saw my wife had when she died.

It's important that we don't cause panic amongst those we call neighbours and friends.

Panic and distrust causes fearful wars. These are occasions, we can all do without!

I have a piece of a rusted and expensive 1984 car which I keep to remind me how futile my storing earthly treasures really is. These earthly treasures include relics of my own scientific achievements and discoveries.

What real value, ought I place on these?
Ought I place my value of science ahead of religion?
Now, there's a can of worms, Alan!

The world must end some day, but I know where my values rest.

Think of the good the share of the world's economy, which is spent on esoteric science, could achieve, should it be, instead, spent on providing the necessities of life for those most in need?

What's the world come to?...
"Stop the world,... I want to get off?"
Well, if that's the case, then just maybe the LHC might prove it's worth!

But then again, it might not!

Then again, maybe the scientists spending their time on esoterics, might learn something along the way, which might indeed prove their good worth, extra valid!

Thanks for listening to me and don't get down hearted, but keep on reaching out for great outcomes.

Bob. (Australia)

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John, new york — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 04:42:54 GMT

Dear alan and evan,
Thank you very much you have answered most of my questions. I shall refer to the cern website for more information on the topic.

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me — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 04:59:20 GMT

People said the same thing about the telegraph.Then they said it about radio.......

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Frank Shifreen, New York NY — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 05:23:35 GMT

Are these people mad? is the sky falling, Chicken Little? I think the press has encouraged the fears of the uninformed. The bad news is that we live in a dangerous universe, and that calamities can happen. There have been many mass extinctions on our planet over the years. Supernovae, comets, meteors, and other as yet unknown phenomena are wild cards in the universe. We are very fragile. The good news is that things tend to go on as they are and we are still here.That is a miracle. Cosmic rays have more energy than the particles studied in the Collider. The idea that a little black hole would start to eat the planet is a complete fiction and should not be encouraged.

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sambasivarao, kolletikota, india, ap — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 05:33:57 GMT

all the best

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okispider — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 05:44:12 GMT

If Mr. Hawking and Mr. Kaku says everything will be ok, then I trust them!

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Atish Bhusare — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 05:50:07 GMT

its good reaserch we are proud of you

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Chase- Kapolei, Hi — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 06:13:46 GMT

We're all already dead!

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Derek Johnson, Sacramento — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 06:16:41 GMT

its a poor choice to have the key component of the concerns being the "black holes" The facts remain that even if a tiny black hole were produced, and even if that tiny black hole were to start gobbling something before it were to radiate out it would still only cover a fraction of a second in our lives. You should do an article about how irrational of a debate this really is and give the public a more accurate portrayal of this incredible advance in science. Lay out the facts that a microscopic black hole wouldnt have enough mass or energy to gobble up more than an atom at that were it to charge straight in to the middle of it before gobbling up the very small amount of matter within its event horizon. Even if it were to launch itself at incredible speeds out of the colider and through the atoms in the earths body it could pass through the densest matter without ever interacting with it, and again without having an infinite amount of energy constantly pouring in to it from the moment of its creation its event horizon would never expand and the black hole would be far to small and insignificant to be considered a concern in any way shape of form. Bottom line is even if it smacked right into the wall of the unit and started to eat the wall it would burn out and die in an instant after taking in the minute amount within its reach. Also the possibility of the black hole growing to a dangerous size were all the unthinkable things to happen (the way out there scenario) our race would have long died out or moved on before it grew large enough to endanger life on the planet. I think it to be much wiser to present the whole case instead of a short bit about how the leading scientists don't think it will happen shoved inside of a giant ball of uneducated concerns! DO NOT HINDER SCIENCE BY PROPAGATING FEAR!!! its a joke to think people want to take the issue to court, its almost sickening that fear and the lack of understanding would try to hinder such a great advance in particle physics research!

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Mark, Salt Lake City, Utah — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 06:30:21 GMT

The fear factor wins again. All the timid masses need in order to give power to authority is freak out over something they know little about. It is sad that after having read one article these people worry themselves sick rather than going to google or a library and doing their own research. This is why terror and fear are powerful tools for a government to control people.

Go learn for yourself before having a knee jerk reaction. At least realize you know little to nothing about a subject and ignore it instead of telling others about what you think NOT what you know because you only make the panic worse (not to mention you sound foolish).

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sachin — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:00:05 GMT

hello,iam sachin, best of luck for this big bang expriment, i think to you can confom to this expriment no looses to my earth,and i can also be suare.thank you.

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Basil Davis — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:01:33 GMT

Kids these days are inundated with a culture of fear...fear of crime, terrorism, diseases, environmental catastrophe, what have you. To an extent we are conditioned to react this way by the culture around us.Combine this with the great deal of ignorance about the subject among even adults (see some of the above comments) and of course you are going to have this sort of reaction. We are naturally afraid of what we don't understand, and this tendency is just exasperated by the uncertain times, the aformentioned culture of fear, and often a feeling of helplessness in the face of these issues.

The collider of course is not going to be the end of the world, its a bit ironic really that people considered it as such. If there's a country that puts safety and conservative action at a premium its Switzerland, yet they are hosting the project. If anything other nations should be so careful with their people and society.

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Scott, N.O.L.A — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:04:33 GMT

Why do I get the feeling that all the fear mongering Ameicans have done about the LHC is concerned more with the fear that the US didn't have a bigger investment in it, as opposed to the fear of a black hole swallowing the earth?

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bhaksar,bangalore — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:08:57 GMT

well , i had read this and for every expiremnet is well and good , but if we seen fast expirement those exprimemnt are very good but these technolgy garb and balck mailed by some terriorlist .

our sciensits doing good thing but some people making disadvantages.

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Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 07:56:19 GMT

So..are we going to see christmas?

Robert..I posed the same kind of question in the early coverage. No one answered. It wasn't until I read about it and learned it's all about confined energy density. An energy density from a collision so confined that using the famous E=MC Squared eqn. you have an equivalent "spark" that some say may cause a time curvature indistinguishable from a mass induced black hole.

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Romanda Glehnn, Atlanta, Georgia — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 08:40:40 GMT

I just don't see why we need to keep on making bigger colliders. It only creates a bigger risk. Sure the scientist say that energies higher than those created in the LHC happen to occur in the atmosphere due to cosmic rays and all, but that doesn't mean we know the full power of this machine. Compare it to an unbroken stallion with reins as thick as a human hair. We don't know what can be accomplished with this thing. We either overshoot the objective or we barely reach it, if not at all. We have not recorded anything we expect the LHC to be capable of. We are only relying on theories. We don't even know if Hawkind's radiation would work! What we need is solid evidence that we won't be sucked up by a black hole or transformed into a lump of strange matter. People are out there commiting suicide over the fear of a black hole. We need the proof so the people of the world don't have to worry every day that it may be their last.

Scientists say this is the beginning of a new era in technology for mankind, but it may be the very end of life itself. We need to make further investigations before we leap into the unknown.

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Simon Bees, Seattle, Wash — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 08:54:09 GMT

i think thta no good will come of this, if they do discover that there is a higgs boson (or a god particle)there will be mass spanic by all the religiouse poeple in th eworld saying "waht do we do now" and "what happens if we die"!. however if they do disciver that there wassome sort of entity that created the universe there wold possibly be mass anarchy between religions about whos relifgion is right, we would be sent right back into the crusades bgut this could lad to a more...definite end.

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Jessica V, Sch'dy, New York — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 09:02:18 GMT

After spending probably too little time reading about the LHC, the base feeling I have for this is that it's likely to be a hugely eye-opening experience for science as a whole. Heck, being that I'm not college educated and learned about this machine as I was reading Mental_Floss (a fine magazine), I've been interested immensely. Near fights with my spouse and all.

Now that most of the preliminary things are out of the way, it's going to have a little time to settle - the story. I only hope now that everything will run smoothly for those scientists out there. They're up to something that's in position to make serious history and I'm around to say I saw it happen. Truly, this is an amazing time to be alive (and not swallowed by black holes)!

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becky manchester uk — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:16:13 GMT

This Is Stupid !¬!!!!!

I bet all u worriers 1 million pound that this time next year
we will all still be here
Good Luck to your big bang machine !!

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miss s childs cornwall england — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:31:15 GMT

i have read all of the comments posted onto the blog reference the big bang. but needless to say my son and i made our selves ill worrying over this experiment.
we never slept. my son the night before wanted to sleep in my bed said goodbye to his animals of the morning of the experiment and did not want to go to school.he said basically he did not want to die. this experiment and the people responsible even if it is in the name of progress put the fear of god into my son and many others.
while i agree to an extent the media did mock it. in saying tongue in cheek might not be here tomorrow but nevertherless it scared us all. if my son was of such that his state of mind was very fragile it could of pushed him over that edge.
is it fair to put the children and the adults of this world under so much pressure that they fear for their lives. this world is hard enough.
the scientists i will say kept reassuring us that the world was not going to come to an end but as i understand it they could not know about something they have never done before.even after all the reasearching they had done.
why do this. the money could of been spent in much needed other areas of this world.
you scared the world senseless and spent a large sum of money.

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Dan Walsh Eden Valley, Minnesota — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:42:26 GMT

My name is Dan and I am from Mn. I support the scientific endeavor that is being performed here. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding here among the populace. The amount of energy needed to produce a black hole is enormous. The Haldron collider cannot accomplish this. With this fear aside, you have to think about all the discoveries that are possible. All leaps forward are blind in some jumps but you cannot have progress without sacrifice. The overwhelming possibilities are endless. WE are much better now days than our ancestors. We are able to think ahead and weigh dangers before attempting them. Please peopole, educate yourself before you make an official opinion. D`ont take what someone says to you as gosple truth. Do the homework yourselves, than make an informed decision.

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Wes - Jhb South Africa — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:49:50 GMT

Hmmm i dont know how to take this but it certainly is interesting. Trying to prove a theory behond comprehension , this is beginning to look like a Hollyuwood movie you guys get successful runs the 1st dozen times or so . And then on D day everything that can go wrong does go wrong, and Bruce Willis comes to save the day after brutally killing blackhole after blackhole.

but seriously if you claim that it wont have any negative effects on our precious planet do it for the sake of humanity

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r.sekar, MANNARGUDI , tamil nadu ,india — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:52:16 GMT

I feel very happy we are going to another level in scince BEST OF LUCK go ahead I wish to all UNIT MEMBERS

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Wheelwatcher CA — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 10:58:02 GMT

No offense, but I dont buy the argument that "since neutrinos happen in nature and comprise a small mass" that increased exposure is not a worry. I am just saying that radiation is the worry with the LHC not all these far out Doomsday scenes. Also, there is no proof that neutrinos are common in nature.

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Chris, Paris, France — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:26:56 GMT

As the LHC is clearly a WMD, at least according to the consensus of the US media and the US folk that gave us that acronym, I'm just wondering why Bush doesn't bomb the hell out of the Franco-Swiss border. One hopes at least that McCain/Palin, who are real red-meat gung-ho heros, will do the necessary.
Seriously, if the World Order is dependant on a country which worships ignorance and superstition to this extent, God (or the Supreme ID Computer) help us all.

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Nabz, Chittagong — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:37:39 GMT

Science has always involved trials and errors, some errors were graver than others. But, despite that we are still on the road of moving towards a future. The hype about this experiment not only seems fabricated it also seems comical to a certain extent. I mean, come on ppl, we're slowly dooming this planet by global warming as it is, we really shoudln't be talking about an experiment taking the credit for something that we have helped to create!! Scientists who know better have already analysed the risk factors, and honestly do you really think they would help build up a machine that threatens to eradicate them?? Of course not! Irrespective of what it may seem to you, I am pretty sure they value their own lives, just as much as we do ours.
Personally, I would really love to know what happens next. And to those who are going to courts to try and stop LHC, I have a question. Where were U when LHC was being approved of and funded?? $10 billion and all for nothing seems to be the material for an even greater tragedy, if u ask me.......

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jason — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 11:56:26 GMT

What A giant waste of time and money!!!! Maybe these brainiacs should be using their time for things like alternative fuels, alternative cars, invironmental controls, etc...The best thing that could happen is for the whole thing to blow up with all those idiots inside. [...]

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Anunnakis — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 12:02:29 GMT

hello guys i wish u luck for this big experiment this will show us how the universe was made and where we can from ??????????

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Diane, South Australia. — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 12:46:50 GMT

Whilst i have to say i am scared i think its only through the lack of reasurance given. My question is.. can the machine be turned of in a flash? There does not seem to be any reasurance only its all doomsday and it won't happen. Where are the articles that tell us what could go wrong and whats in place to put it right? My 21 year old son who loves science and physic's has spoken to me and his younger brother of 11 at great length and whilst he is so happy i am just worried. If there is no detriment to life then i am more than happy for this study just don't put our life's at risk for your own gratification.

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ashish,rajkot,gujrat — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 12:47:42 GMT

There are four force in this world which made the universe and if this experiment gets its way means we are just near the truth.all the best

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Jan Beck, Akron Ohio — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:00:43 GMT

I looked up more information about this after my 5yr old.(Very smart 5yr old) overheard a few adults talking about it. When I picked him up from a play date, he was terrified! I calmed him down and then spoke to the adults about what was said. I have a strong belief in God and I know that HE is in control, not science and not people. I told my son that a bunch of men wanted to waste alot of money that could have helped alot of people only to try to prove a theory and can only be proved wrong by an expensive test. I went on to explain that no matter what happens, God will take care of us just like HE always has and always will. Guess what, he had no more fear and was able to sleep just fine. People just need to pay attention to how and what they say to kids and where kids can overhear! Most of all, they need to put their trust in the Almighty God not an almighty machine!

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Bob Estes, Somerville, MA — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:08:11 GMT

The more I see how these anti-LHC stuntmen have dishonestly (exaggerating credentials, recruiting crackpots, putting forward mutually exclusive doomsday scenarios) have succeeded in making a lot of people truly afraid, the less sympathy I have for them. I don't think the leaders even believe their own propaganda. I again recommend what I wrote about the campaign and the two scientists (neither particle physicists, one who seems to have lost contact with reality), who seem to have let the lure of publicity get the better of their judgment in my blog post "Large Hadron Collider: What’s the Risk?" at http://onscreen-scientist.com/?p=34

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anon, uk, fu — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:12:24 GMT

What part of the collisions haven't happened yet do you people not get? people weren't expecting a black hole to come out of it being turned on for the love of god use your brain!

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Rick , Virginia Beach — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:23:59 GMT

I say switch it on and see what happens. What fascinates me the most is antimatter. If it was created, then where did it go? Is there a parallel universe made up of all antimatter? Maybe this is what is on the othe side of a blackhole, and things don't disappear, they just reunite with their antimatter counterparts. Maybe governments know that the end is near and have no problem donating money to come up with a solution in case the world ends. Why not put a reactor on the moon to power a few houses. In the end, if do we have a planetary polar shift by 2012, at least we can say we tried to create a new universe by smashing atoms. Or we find out how to make blackholes, and by 2012, we see the end of the world anyway.

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Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:29:55 GMT

Alan,
You've piqued my interest. This is a very emotional issue with some people. (?!) You've let through a few comments that are very angry and the wording makes me question the stability of the writers. The guys a CERN have been threatened. What about you? Have you been threatened over your coverage? It seems several people think you're running things. Anyone say that if we just got rid of you we'd stop this monstrosity and finally be safe? And it's not just those that don't understand the science. Some apparently intelligent people seem the think that God is threatened. Which I don't get. Are there any religious zealots out there who would go to extreme lengths ... Okay, that's not even in question. The question is are they pitting themselves against you?

[ALAN ADDS: No, I'm just fine, Tim. Thanks for asking!]

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Ryan, Rochester, NY — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:30:16 GMT

Alan,

You have done a commendable job in bringing the facts and worries to the public about the LHC. For that, I thank you. It's been an exciting and anxious year since I started to closely follow this project. One thing I would like, no love, to point out to anyone afraid of these potential issues about microscopic blackholes and stranglets that there is no need to worry. The probability is so small that there is virtually no chance for these events to happen. However, even if they did take place, they would radiate out OR we would never know.

"Don't worry, be Happy!"

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Eric, Salinas, CA — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 13:56:49 GMT

The only beef I had about the coverage here on msnbc.com was a headline about whether the LHC would save or destroy the earth. The LHC was never meant to save earth, it was meant for scientific research only. So sad that so many doom sayers whine like little children about it being a doomsday machine, it's not and the LHC will not create black holes that gobble up the earth.

If only the ignorant would study science they'd understand what the LHC is all about and why it's worth the investment. As always the religious fanatics want to keep cutting edge science retarded because they fear the truth.

[ALAN ADDS: Yes, I recast the beginning of that story a little bit so that it focused more on the question of whether destruction was a possibility and whether there was the potential for helping (rather than saving) the world. Those are the big questions that people have, and maybe it was put a little too starkly. I might be too enamored of the idea that science can save the world.]

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Carlton, Kamuela, Hawaii — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:29:50 GMT

IMPOSSIBLE
For mini black holes to gobble up the Earth would require physical entities to move at speeds faster than the maximum speed of light. In our physical universe, no physical entity can travel faster than the maxmum speed of light. It's IMPOSSIBLE (in our physical universe). Perhaps one can see this fact as a built in SAFETY FACTOR (keeping us and our universe out of many troubles?) of our physical universe. In physics "IMPOSSIBLE" (rather than "highly improbable") rarely occurs, but here is an example. Another example is that it is IMPOSSIBLE, in our physical universe to distinguish physically being in motion at a constant velocity from being at rest. We experience this fact when we, momentarily, have trouble deciding if our car is moving or the one beside us is doing the moving.
If one can make and get through a wormhole (not able to be shown theoretically impossible as yet but highly improbable) to another physical universe, one might find a universe where the maximum speed of light is large enough for mini black holes to gobble up planets or have a larger "safety factor" is speed limit is smaller. We DO NOT live in such a physical universe.
There are those who believe it is possible, in our physical universe, for us to move faster than the maximum speed of light. They are WRONG (It's IMPOSSIBLE), just as WRONG as those supposing that mini black holes (if even made by the LHC) could gobble up the Earth. "IMPOSSIBLE" things in physics are usually able to be shown as ABSOLUTES of our physical universe. Mathematics has many more "absolutes" if one wants self-consistency. Our physical universe displays self-consistency in manny ways. If physical entities could move faster than the speed of light our physical universe would not be able to show its self-consistency.
REMEMBER, when saying here that it's IMPOSSIBLE, we must add "in OUR physical universe" (physical reality). Imagination, religion, mathematics, philosophy, etc. can have ideas that are not limited by physical reality; therefore, our imagination can come up with ideas that don't fit physical reality. Like mini black holes gobbling up the Earth, spacecraft moving faster than the maximum speed of light, meteoric dust so deep on our moon that spacecraft will sink out of sight on landing, etc..
STOP WORRYING KIDS. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE for the LHC to gobble up our Earth because our woderful universe has built-in safety factors to protectt us (for the religiously inclined, God's infinite intelligence put them into the universe He made for us). Like you might IMAGINE that you could leap to the moon if you built up your leg muscles enough by running or other exercise. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE, PLEASE, spend your time on imagining good things even if they are impossible and don't let others waste your time with bad things that are impossible.

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Amanda, Chicago, IL — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:54:34 GMT

When I was your age, we appreciated the particles we were given. We didn't crash them into eachother for no good reason. Particles don't grow on trees, you know.

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A. Reed, Eldorado, IL — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:22:28 GMT

Is there any research going on that uses magnetic energy to propel a vehicle at low cost?
A. Reed
Eldorado, IL

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Jhalyn, Henderson, NV — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:26:51 GMT

to be honest wit u, da human race is so stupid! african americans as slaves, hitler and da nazi, and now this? we are DESTROYING ourselves. we murder our own people! arent we all da same in God's eyes? we are all his children in the Kingdom. nd ferr us 2 sit back and abuse wat he has blessed us wit (dis planet earth, our excessive knowledge, nd our incredible strength as human beings) is ridiculous. scientists man, dnt get me wrong they're great, but sum of yall experiments b super crazii. nd im disgusted dat these CHILDREN can b sendin yall messages PLEADING ferr hope nd u sit here nd continue wit dis experiment! i myself am onli 14, and i say STOP.

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Jason, Terre Haute, IN — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:28:45 GMT

So basically this is one big hard on for Athiest Scientists. Other than trying to prove the Big Bang Theory (who cares!!!) what if any practicle applications have they shown will come from this? The answer is none, zero, or in scientific language zilcho. All the worlds problems and this is the best these guys can come up with? What a huge waste of time, brain power, and money!! [...]

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Meg, TN — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:29:31 GMT

My one question is... Why are scientist SO determined to analyze and conclude the Big Bang Theory ? I understand it's a scientist job and dream to explore the unknown of the universe, however i'm amazed so many are focused So much on the beginning of life/creatino of the earth? I've been told all my life in school that we (scientifically) know more about outer space and the particles of life than whats beneath and in the ocean on our own planet?! that's crazy! My veiw on the whole world ending or blackhole consuming the earth is not yet decided, sure i don't want to die and i'm not Exactly sure what the possible consequences are if the LHC and projects fail, correct me if i have this wrong, but if the LHC and its other projects (ATLAS, CMS, etc) failed, as it's underground wouldnt' cause the whole world to be destroyed? this is only one small area conducting these experiments under the Big Bang conditions, IF and when the BBT occured, it would have covered MASSAVE and VAST areas of space, not a few hundreds miles underground. I could understand a nuclear sized crater, but just can't picture the whole world going Boom

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Rob Evelyn Louisville, Ky — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:31:36 GMT

Ok so I will admit to being one those "uneducated" people but overall what is the benefit to this experiment ?

I have to tell you that it does scare me to think that in a microsecond we could all be gone no matter what the "great" minds of the world say...

I have to agree with a previous commentor that said something to the effect; it is really ok just to do something for the sake of doing it. So what ! Do we really need to know what caused the earth to be created ? Does it really matter ? The fact is we are here now.

I think it would be better spent effort to figure out how to improve the earth and the environment (ok - I am NOT a greenie).

I would hope our great leaders of the world would intervene. In any case, if and when this collision happens - I would like to know so I can be with the ones I love - just in case....

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truthmanone, Raleigh, NC — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:34:14 GMT

I think folks need to read up on Hawking Radiation. It was founded by Stephen Hawking and explains that black holes give of a kind of radiation that slowly desolves the black hole mass into nothing. The size of these black holes that could be created by the LHC would desolve in billionths of a second or faster because the mass of the black hole is so small. People need to realize that because an object is a black hole, doesn't make it some magical object. Let me explain. If the sun were to turn into a black hole today, barring the complete absence of light, Earth would feel no difference in the gravity comming from the sun. What makes a black hole dangerous is the gravity gradient as you approach the singularity or the edge of the black hole. So with that being said, a microscopic or in the case of the LHC, nanoscopic black holes, the gravity of the object would be no different than the original particle/particle combination. Due to Hawking Radiation, the nanoscopic black hole would disappear almost immediately.

Folks, do some research on Hawking Radiation and you'll see there's nothing to worry about.

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Mike, Nashville Tennessee — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:39:16 GMT

Whats all the fuss about. We'll either destroy ourselves or we won't. Living in fear is not the way to go. I see nothing that gives me any reason to worry. One of the observations made in particle physics is that the act of observing the experiment changes the experiment. I would dare to carry that a bit further and say that the energy,(including thought,) put into the experiment also changes the experiment. Put energy into believing that many good things will come from this new machine, and good things will. I don't mean to sound metaphysical here, but one needs to understand that what you believe and fear causes one to act subconsiously to create a self fullfilling prophecy.

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Harvey, Mid-Atlantic, US — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 15:51:14 GMT

Aww.. those poor kids. Raised to be scared of everything by parents and teachers that watch too much science fiction and not read enough science.

People need a boogieman. Of course they have a real one - global warming - but that's far too complex and subtle to scare people because they have no control over it. They can turn the CERN off, so whining about if gives them both the feeling of control and victimhood.

We are a sad, sad speicies.

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Dave, Boyce, Virginia — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:00:42 GMT

Problem I see with the doomsday scenario is when speaking quantum, everything is about probabilities, which never, ever, reduce to zero. The result is when they say. "no Black Holes will ever escape to destroy the Earth," the translation really is, "the probability of a Black Hole escaping and destroying the Earth is really low."

Putting it that way it sounds like less of a good idea. Building a Black Hole generator on the far side of the Pegasus Galaxy may, someday, be a good thing, but I am hard pressed to see how it becomes a good thing if done here.

The largest argument against the escape of a Black Hole seems to entirely be based on the weak argument that the life time of a micro Black Hole will (USUALLY, this word isn't said but needs to be considered since we are speaking of a quantum probability event) be measured in thousands of seconds, and therefore the Black Hole will vanish before it has any chance to interact with neighboring matter. This half truth completely and utterly ignores the fact that in the super collider scenario we are also speaking of events and the formation of objects occuring at rotational speeds approaching the speed of light. Suffice to say that very strange things happen to time when an object moves that fast. For objects moving that fast seconds can stretch out to years. This is what enables us to detect Cosmic Ray produced interactions with the Ionosphere Muons (see http://l3cosmics.cern.ch:8000/l3c_www/paper/thesis/avm_phd_2000.ps.gz for an understanding of what I speak of) which also disappear in thousands of a second, but still they bang into the Earth hundreds of miles from where they are created.

Here is the problem. The Black Hole is now moving at a speed near that of light. For it, time slows to a crawl. [For us on the outside time proceeds normally and a few thousands of a second are all that is involved.] From the view point of the Black Hole it now has a life span of at least a year. In that year it will interact with, and absorb the mass of many more nearby particles. Near the end of that year it will no longer be a micro-Black Hole. This means it's lifetime is now extended as its lifetime was determined by how much mass it had. To expect it to vanish is like locking a baby elephant in a shed, shoveling periodic food and water in with a conveyor belt, and expecting to still see a baby when you open the shed up a year or two later. Getting back to our Black Hole. Containment of the critter is postulated on the cyclotrons magnetic field being strong enough to keep the micro-black hole in place. That ended as soon as neighboring particles were absorbed. Simply speaking the big tiger has now hopped the fence designed to fence cubs. It will still probably be less than a thousandth of an inch in diameter when it simply falls through the bottom of the super collider. Physical eyeball inspection of the metal bottom will reveal little hint of the hole that is now there. [Run the Collider long enough, allow enough Black Holes to form and eventually the bottom of it will look like swiss cheese. Didn't matter. All we needed was one for the doomsday scenario. Ten, fifty or a thousand of them will merely speed up the Earth's destruction.] So anyway down to the center of the earth the critter goes. It will oscillate there back and forth hundreds of thousands of times. Each time it will get a little bigger on its journey as it absorbs literally atom and molecule it encounters. Back at the CERN nothing will have been noticed. The thousandths of a second have passed. The hole isn't detected, and the experiment continues to run. In probably a month or three the first geological effects caused by the vanishing of a few tons of Earth's center may be detected. The Black Hole would now have a normal time life cycle of several thousand years, if it was suddenly teleported to deep space. It won't be. It will continue to eat, grow larger and extend it's life cycle by doing so. As it continues to create voids in it's wake the Earth's internal pressure will fill them in. Eventually such internal contractions will be noticed on the surface as earthquakes. They will continue.. By now, if the experiment is still running, the bottom of the CERN collider will indeed look like swiss cheese. Give life and the Earth not much more than six months (if that) from the first earthquakes.

Yes sure, let's do this here and see if I am right. All we need is one chance in a billion, then run the experiment. Prove me wrong. We will have so much fun learning about useless stuff that the vanishing of our Earth is unimportant.

[ALAN ADDS: Dave, I don't think you're stating the right scenario for black-hole creation. The knot of concentrated mass/energy would unravel not in thousandths of a second, but in a vanishingly small time. In fact, it would decay into other particles and jets while it's still in the center of the detector. That's how it would be detected, by its decay products. It's important to remember that a black hole has never been seen visually, although we have all these pictures from sci-fi movies of a big black spot. Actually, the theory is supported by measurements of gravitational interaction and high-energy radiation emissions from areas where large black holes are thought to exist. On the basis of those measurements, scientists have produced a model of how black holes work. The same theory that leads them to suggest that black holes exist also tells them how they work. The larger the black hole, the colder it is. For a black hole in the mass range of a star, the object is so cold that radiation continues to flow into the black hole. But for a subatomic-scale black hole, the heat level is so high that radiation flows outward, sparking particles into existence (what Stephen Hawking would call a "white hole"). What some folks are trying to do is figure out whether you can have one part of the theory without the other part of the theory. It's been shown that you can't. Recently, scientists went one step further and said, "OK, suppose the theory is whack and for some reason the subatomic black hole continues to hang around." In a recently published, peer-reviewed paper, they showed that even in that case, the object poses no threat. The question of one-in-a-billion or one-in-a-septillion chance is not relevant, unless you're talking about the quantum mechanical possibility that anything can happen. However, in this scenario, the idea of a growing black hole is a question of classical physics rather than quantum physics, so quantum uncertainty doesn't become a factor. That was another conclusion contained in the research. If someone more knowledgeable can improve upon my poor, geeky explanation, please feel free to chime in. I spoke with an author of the key study recently and you can read the Q&A here:]

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/07/02/1180976.aspx

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Costello — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:16:45 GMT

At times I believe such grand experiments should be kept out of the public eye just like the birth of the A-bomb. We have grown into a society that should be open minded to science and yet I see people on here acting like science is heresy, only because they know about it.

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abby, singapore — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:29:33 GMT

i think if the big bang can actually be replicated (which i dont think will happen), it would be the most beautiful paradox: "the discovery of life which leads to the end of all lives."

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will simons, roosevelt, Utah — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:46:34 GMT

dont all the dooms day crowd relize that the largest super colider in our univers is the sun. It creates many rare particals and in the billions of years its hasnt distroyed the earth. Most of the energy is balanced, some creative some distructive. yet we are still here. you go girl. smash away.

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Dan Cantrell — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:53:35 GMT

The kids have a right to be scared of this thing. They will paying taxes to help cover the cost of this worthless pile of junk! It won't perform miracles, or cure cancer. Grind it up and use the parts to make Swiss Army Knives!

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P.Gangadhar, Ongole, Andhra Pradesh — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 16:54:09 GMT

Hi!
I am an undergraduate computer science & Engineering student.
I love sciences.
We know how to do things in our daily life. They all (each and every thing, even walking) are known by experimenting. As per my knowledge, science is the process of understanding and knowing things through experimenting

Future is a choice that we make.

You are going to choose the future of the Humans.

You chose to take humans from darkness of Ignorance (of how "Big Bang" happened) to a bright future with knowledge (of unknown facts about the Big Bang and matter,).

I believe that these collision experiments will yield a great amount of knowledge which is enough to change our present world structure.

I could see the future world with my imagination, with this new break through in science, a better-better-better world.
I wish these experiments should yield facts that develop science to help us to become this much stronger.
1) We could control or even foresee the climatic calamities.
2) We could control the global warming, pollution.
3) We could recover from the ozone depletion.
4) We could travel to space as we travel from one city to other.
5) We could explore the unexplored space like we browse through the web.
6) We could have a very cheap energy source in the place of nonrenewable sources.

I want to say one thing to people who panic about the failure of these experiments.
"Modern day humans are not weak; with the legacy of many scientists we had a lot of power. We could see what is happening in the Mars or other planet. We could calculate and analyze things in one millionth of a second. We could do things very accurate. With this tremendous power humans are so far from failures and wrong estimations. In this present experiment they are prefect with the safety of Earth. If any thing unexpected or undesired happens they are capable of taking control over it by shutting down that process. The main thing is how much we are going to learn from these experiments. What they all need now is whole hearted public support. We all should wish their success in this experiment.”

Please forgive me if I have committed any mistakes in this comment.

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P.Gangadhar, Ongole, Andhra Pradesh — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:19:51 GMT

I just read form the above comment that this experiment could lead to creating a black hole in earth.
I studied that it is just impossible to create Black Hole with two nano particles collision and even more the resultant particles or emissions are not going to react with any of the matter on earth. They are completely seized and nothing affects the surroundings.
I also want to say people that these experiments cannot cause earthquake, because it does not release any kind of vibration energies that can create an earthquake.

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courtney,springield,OR — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:20:01 GMT

Well at first I was upset only because I didn't know that much about the machine but now I feel a little better that I have some more information on it. But with something like this, information is very important to me and many others. I only hope that this information is correct. And yeah I know you guys know what you're talking about, but everyone makes mistakes. I just hope this won't be a mistake.

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P.Gangadhar, Ongole, Andhra Pradesh — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:35:44 GMT

After having a view at the Internet blogs, news, posts I learnt that only one thing people really concern is of negative side or imaginative side of the experiment. I urge them to come out of the illusions and try to understand the facts.

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Kira, Brandon, Manitoba — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:40:45 GMT

I'd like to say something on behalf of people, like me, who are scared.

Please stop calling us idiots, laughing at our concerns, and rolling your eyes. Maybe we've been misled by a media that feeds on fear (although most coverage I've read really downplays the issue), or maybe we're just responding to the idea that *if* the scientists are wrong, there is no way to escape obliteration, or maybe we're not physicists, plain and simple. In any case, our concerns are real, and genuine, and even if you think they're pointless, they deserve consideration.

In a case like this one, where negative results (no matter how unlikely they may be) will affect the whole planet, and beyond, how can we (the ignorant & unwashed masses, if you like) be expected to react? Apprehensiveness and fear are completely natural responses here, and referring to us as simpletons, dolts or what have you is cruel. Mr. Boyle, this is clearly not directed at you, but at certain members of your readership, who clearly find joy in kicking people who are already (feeling) down.

Everyone, even scientists, make mistakes. Before Einstein, everyone thought Newton was the end-all-be-all. But Newton had the smallest little error in his work, which still ultimately worked (it took us to the moon), yet needed to be fixed by Einstein. There is a possibility that scientists and physicists are plain old wrong. We are genuinely frightened because of that. It might seem silly, or unlikely, but our fears are real. So, please, just keep that in mind.

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DAP, Buckhorn, NM — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:00:03 GMT

Say a small black hole forms...tiny black holes evaporate. In fact, large black holes do,too, but they keep being replenished by the debris that falls in. By 'evaporate' I don't mean matter disappears. There is no violation of the Second law of thermodynamics. The black hole just disappears by kicking out protons in a quantum chaotic manner, forming strange attractors we see as strings of galaxies, as clusters of galaxies. The tiny black holes, even if they do form in the collider, will 'evaporate' almost immediately.

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Concerned Canadian, Ontario, Canada — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:00:49 GMT

Oh, for the love of [insert deity's name here]. We have more chance of exterminating ourselves with nuclear weapons than of the LHC killing us. Just a lesson to everyone, especially the kids: The mass media who hype all this doomsday NONSENSE are all a bunch of morons. Doomsday is not going to happen for the next 5 billion years (unless we have a nuclear war or some idiot creates an even more efficient weapon). The fact that people buy this at all is just a sign that we should be very, very concerned indeed for the future of civilization.

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Thomas Arana, MD, South Hadley, MA — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:02:38 GMT

Just as A-bomb and H-bomb explosions had no deleterious repercussions on our planet, so I expect the Hadron experiments will be safe for mankind.

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Kieran Mohen, Perth, Western Australia — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:05:54 GMT

Does any one actually care that this is sucking up 10 billion dollars, that some poor suckers have to pay for. We have such a terrible world wide poverty problem, and when 10 billion dollars appears it's put towards an experiment you could say that determines the meaning of life. Who said we weren't going to find out at the end of life. To see everyone wimpering on how we were going to get sucked into a black hole, I would love to see one of you TRY and explain it. Never going to happen! 10 BILLION DOLLARS! Stop wining about world poverty if you're the ones stopping it from happening. Also what's this place going to be used for after this. What an appalling embarrassing waste of money. Please think about this.

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Carlton, Kamuela, Hawaii — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:20:30 GMT

IMPOSSIBLE
(EOR CHILDREN AND SOME ADULTS)
(ESPEIALLY SOME PARENTS)

There are some absolutes (things that are true for everyone; THINGS YOU CAN TRUST AND RELY ON) in our entire universe and the part called our physical universe. Of coure, number one is your own existence. There are some absolutes for our physical universe that some ignore or might even wish to keep from you. Many important absolutes of our physical universe may be stated as IMPOSSIBLE things in our physical universe. Probably the first of these absolutes of physics, uncovered by ancient scientists, is that it is physically IMPOSSIBLE to physically distinguish between when you are moving at a constant velocity and when you are at rest (most people experience this ABSOLUTE of our physical universe when they, momentarily, think the car they are in is moving when it is the car beside them that is doing the moving). It is also why, after falling asleep and waking up on a fast moving airplane in calm air, you may have to remind yourself that the plane is airborne and not still sitting at the gate. Another absolute of our physical universe is that no physical entity (body) can move faster than the maximum speed of light. Doing such in our physical universe is IMPOSSIBLE. If, so called, wormholes can be produced and entered without being killed, you might be able to get to a universe where the maxmum speed of light is greater (or less) than it is in our universe. Meanwhile, we are in our universe, not some other, and the absolutes for ours are what we experience and have to live with.
With the maximum speed of light in our universe, having the size it does,it is IMPOSSIBLE for a mini black hole made by the LHC (if the LHC can even make one) to gobble up our planet or even a baseball. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE in our physical universe, just as it is impossible, in our physical universe for anyone to go faster than the maximum speed of light (you and spaceships of the future can't even match the maximum speed of light, let alone exced it). It could be that our physical universe contains such IMPOSSIBILITIES as built in SAFETY FACTORS (for its and your protection). For those religiously inclined, the infinite intelligence of God knew how to make things properly. Any person who tells you that, in our physical universe, you can go faster than light is lying to you or does not know the physical truths or facts (absolutes) of our physical universe. Those who tell you that the LHC can produce mini black holes that can gobble up the Earth are lying to you or don't know the (should be) well known physical facts of our physical universe.
Our universe contains more things of interest than just the physical realm. The physical realm is the area of expertise for scientists. Other parts belong to, for example, philosophy, religion, and mathematics. However, among these, only mathematics can go beyond faith or belief to demonstrate many of its facts, absolutes, IMPOSSIBLE things, like trisecting a plane angle with only an unmarked straightedge and circular compass. Nonetheless, all realms have faith or believe in our universe being self-consistent, not self-contradictory. Mathematics is especially concerned with proofs of self-consistency, but mathematics, itself, has allowed us to see that its self-consistency CAN NOT be mathematically proved, in general, for suffuciently interesting topics; it must remain a matter of belief orfaith, for honest mathematicians.
Our physical universe provides us with great evidence that the maximum speed of light CAN NOT be exceeded. The only place faith or belief clearly enters is in that our physical senses are not being deceived by our physical universe. Again, belief in self-consistency assures us that our physical universe is NOY physically deceiving us. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do so without self-contraiction (loss of self-consistency) and it is in making the maximum speed of light the fastest speed possible in our physical universe that our physical universe guarantees the self-consistency it shows us in abundance.
It's IMPOSSIBLE to make a physical universe in which we, as physical beings, exist without its being self-consistent at its roots. This fact also proclaims,for all to see if they look objectively, intelligence is involved. Such intelligence knows what size to choose for the maximum speed of light and this value makes it IMPOSSIBLE for mini black holes, if even possible, of the LHC to gobble up our planet.
Imagining IMPOSSIBLE things is fun and can be very helpful, but it is better to imagine good things and to tell those who want you to imagine bad IMPOSSIBLE things that you are too busy imagining good IMPOSSIBLE things. Imagining bad POSSIBLE things is another matter,but imagining bad IMPOSSIBLE things, probably, is not as much fun in the end as imagining good IMPOSSIBLE things and the latter makes for better dreams and greater happiness. Isn't that an absolute of our universe?

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simon rivers,london,england,united kingdom — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:27:20 GMT

why are we letting these so called brain dead scientists play god to the whole of hummanity.there is one thing that natrualy happens and befalls each any everyone of us...we are going to die.so why waste tax payers money worldwide and put hummanity into depressions,sucides and complete panic over a damn machine that my tax money,that i work hard for has been used for this ticking time bomb that could totaly end the world as we know it.i feel that science needs to re think its propsal on this collider and go blow up a planet that is totaly inhabital my human,animal or alien(if they are real)and conduct there theorys there.i mean, what else the crack pot overpaid freaks we call politicians going to do with our tax money...charge us for breathing.i know little about partical physics nor wish to.all i am saying is re-think and comprehend the possible effects that it is having on millions of humans worldwide.

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Andrew — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:02:25 GMT

What I'm concerned about is how much of what they are saying is actual facts or just theory. When they say there is an extremely small chance of any black hole being formed and that would only last a fractions of a second, are these actual facts or are they facts that are based on our theories about black holes? If what we know about black holes are only theories many scientists have agreed on, couldn't they still be wrong?

This whole thing is fascinating, and I will need to do more research before voicing my opinion much further. But it does seem that scientists are so fascinated and excited about furthering their own knowledge that they will tell us not to worry about anything bad happening even if there is a chance the outcome will be destructive.

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Rick, New Orleans, LA — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:20:39 GMT

Alan,

I think it would be a great thing if we discovered that gravity "leaks" into other dimensions. A few weeks back I read an article that researchers in England, I believe, found that when a measurement is made on one of a pair of entangled particles that information is 'transmitted' at a minimum speed of 10,000 times the speed of light. If other dimensions exist then this would explain that phenomenon. Furthermore, finding the Higgs boson would be a fantastic discovery especially if it lead to a higher level of technology (as it would). And finally, if we were to find GOD then we could ask him all sorts of questions (he he).

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RickS — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:38:58 GMT

Dave, Boyce, Virginia

We do talk about probabilities in quantum physics but what you have to realize is that when the probability of an event happening is as low as it is for blackholes from the LHC swallowing the earth we can say that is 'statistically' zero (i.e. the probability is much less than 1 in a billion or more). This is due to the probability of a quantum black hole forming and the probability of it sticking around long enough to eat enough matter to self sustain and grow large enough to eat more matter. The black hole would be much smaller than a proton (the things we are colliding together). This small, small thing would exist in a very large empty, for the most part) vaccuum. It would have to travel a distance to get to another particle to eat it. It is also probable that it would pass right by any particles in its travels as most of the space within an atom is empty. So, by the time it eats something it would have evaporated. Furthermore the total energy given off by that evaporation would have to be less than the energy of the collision plus the mass energy of the two particles.

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Don't fret — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:03:55 GMT

Don't worry paranoid people. I can assure you this device will not cause the end of the world. I know, because the Bible tell exactly how it will end. I am interested to see what comes of this machine though.

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Paul — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 20:52:40 GMT

All of this talk about CERN and black holes and other mumbo-jumbo goes to show how ignorant our society is. Why aren't people get scared about the cosmic rays that pass through our atmosphere all the time!? Their energies are upwards of 10^20 eV. That energy, by far, surpasses anything that man will be able to produce in a very long time. The worst part is that the majority of society is so ignorant as to not realize the simple facts that even non-physicists can appreciate. It is this very bulk that slows the progression of human knowledge.

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John Kowalski — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:01:24 GMT

I think that the reason of such panic among so many people is, that we are still wrestling with the creationism and religion and very little real science in the schools. John

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ME — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 21:22:24 GMT

y2k was based off the bible dates which is ten to twelve years different than ours, around the same time as the missing civilisation called Mayans.
Has anyone relised that the magnetic belt line controls the worlds weather pattern and this machine with its massive magnetic force could be affecting its shift so quickly.LOOK AT THE COUNTRYS THAT RUN ALONG IT you might find that there has been floods,tornados and volcanic movement in the pacific ocean more rapid and recent.This could once two beams collide at great speed send the earth to crack the crust with its magnetic pull and we create a black hole or we make the moon for venus to be next in line like mars was once where we were.We are a universal experiment dont wreck what we could be sharing next.Think about the times when you feel like we have been here before!!!!!!!!

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Angelo — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:15:42 GMT

An absolute waste of money and time, these useless machines should be financed from the taxes of the atheists and scientists who want to find a "material answer" to the big question of "how did it all begin" .

As for the rest of us intelligent and humble souls who accept the existence of a supreme - intelligence, a God, our taxes should be used to help humanity, the sick, the starving, homeless, poor children, to build schools, build churches, teaching people how to understand and revivie their lost relationship with God. etc.

These guys are brainy but they have no spiritual vision or any wisdom- everything they do is a waste of time and totally Godless and therefore useless in helping anyone solve the real problems of life, ie death!. Who gives a damn about this material world- this place sucks, death sucks, diseases suck, old age sucks, you really like it here Mr Scientist? Sad.

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Mark — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 22:31:33 GMT

The simple fact is that we are arrogant beyond any other civilization that has been on earth. My problem with the expirement is that its unwaranted unecessary when so many other things need to be achieved first. We have schools that don't even have text books, we have children and elderly that need health insurance, we have so many other needs in this world that should come first. This expirement might open doors it might close doors it could quite possibly do nothing, but educating our youth will improve the world. Thats the difference between improving life and leaping for advancement. Now don't get me wrong I love science and technology as I'm in the bizz myself, however our priorities seem to be a little out of touch to the needs of our people.

We as a people seem to be in this rush to achieve something great but along the way we seem to forget about others who are suffering that we could of saved. Maybe the next Einstein is out there but with out healthcare and proper education we may never found him/her. Come down from cloud 9 and realize that life has more delicate needs that have to come first.

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Destiney Brindle, Hedgesville, WV — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:35:50 GMT

I know alot of people that are frightened about this experiment. Although you reassure that there is little risk of catastrophy, It still frightens me. I would just like to know how much of a risk are we really taking? What is the likliness of the world ending?

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Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:46:14 GMT

I hope those strange particles produced will open the door to a way to make nuclear waste inert.

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Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:00:02 GMT

I'd like to know about the very people who are raising all these concerns about doomsday and especially the ones going to court over it. How much in the course of a day do they spend helping to wreck the earth environmentally? Do any of them..smoke?

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Theodore Anderson, Edmonton Alberta — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:11:17 GMT

I am scared for one reason, as humans we only learn from making mistakes to gain power of association between what is right and woung to what works and dosen't, unfortunate wrong and doesn't have to come first to have any association to the question's that humans are asking so we see the right answer.

I wish to know which side of the scale they are trying this on, negative - positive - Black - white - Bad - Good biggest bang for there buck or let's just try one.
I see respect as an equation the middle piont or a grey zone just like they are looking for a middle of both and hope they respect everything on this planet and take this very slow and get to the answers befor they pass the respect part. you better know both sides of the out come a zone of RESPECT. and respect everything on this planet

I do see this as important and maybe it would help us understand that everything on this planet is connected in energy or frequency befor we retool the whole earth for are own use and forget that we are just one living thing on it out of greed of one self.
your's turely
Theodore Anderson

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Alexander Cardd, urantia, seventh sogerne — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:17:06 GMT

Well, as a novice science freak, i just wanted to be kept abreast of the results and potential future uses uncle sam could find to take over the universe like darth vader lol.

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Brian, Tonganoxie, KS — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:10:43 GMT

Okay, my little excerpt will no doubt not set too well with a few people. I am totally for LHC. It is very annoying that there are so many idiots out there who think the LHC will be a doomsday device, but with simple minds you have simple thoughts. There is alot of potential for a wealth of technology and understanding to be gained. Future spacecraft propulsion will be based on particle acceleration physics. There are also medical applications to be gained, but everything requires experimentation. It is so amazing that so many people fear things which they do not understand.

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Larry Norton Lemoore Ca. — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:19:48 GMT

The universe was created by the Big Bang. If we create another Big Bang, won't that create another universe in our place? How do we know that we are not here because someone somewhere created the Big Bang that created our universe?

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Chrissi, Stafford, Virginia — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:51:09 GMT

Well I am only 13, and think this whole experiment is stupid! Seriously, Why take the risk of destroying our whole galaxy just to find out how it got here? I know people always say not to think about the "What ifs?" but What if you do create a blackhole, it is only going to get bigger and it will destroy us! I personally dont see why we need to know how we got here because we are here point blank and all we need to know is how to go on with our lives, this world is already messed up with war and crazy people! Do you really think it is necessar to create anymore problems? I don't think the world needs anymore. I didn't realize how much I loved my life, and the people in my life until I found out what all this was, but now that I know, I have no respect for you scientists, this is very selfish! Your probably thinking that you are doing this for the good of everyone but you're not. It's not great that our generation gets to see this because it could end up to be the biggest mistake EVER! I don't think that you really want to be the reason that everyone dies, I know i wouldn't be! So, just stop the whole experiment before it does cause any harm.

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trey coale lubbock, tx — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 03:38:52 GMT

you guys are a hoot. if you believe anything on msn.com you need to take a reality pill.
y2k wooo that was scary. no one touched any of our computers and they ran just fine thank you. i know all you y2k conspiratora would like to make everyone think you saved the world. but your as big a fraud as msn.com is a non-journalistic website.

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John Doe — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 04:00:48 GMT

You are all talking a load of crap... this is a most boring subject - nothing will happen - and please shut the hype up - and all you stupid people (mostly americans) get [an] education before you write your crap here...

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Michael Kent Oh — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 04:16:21 GMT

The media is certainly part of the problem. I cant count the number of headlines like "Giant asteroid may hit earth in 2015" or "Atom Smasher could destroy the earth?" Of course the actual stories are a little more sensible,but the fact is,they start with a terrifying headline to draw in readers,then treat the nut jobs in a "fair and balanced" approach with the people who know whats actually going on. What ends up happening is that people think that there is some room for argument. The response of the readers is not to understand that the crazy fears have no basis,instead they think,that there might be a small chance. Of course if there was a small chance,you wouldn't do the experiment. The fact is,the tinfoil hat crowd that thinks that the world is going to end are simply dead wrong about it.

These articles are simply biased to make a controversy where none exists because they give equal time to a theory that is absurd. (where have we heard this before) A unbiased article would tell us about the facts. For isntace the fact that the colider will improve our understanding of the universe and the facts of how much it costs.
Its certainly reasonable to give time to those who think we have better things to spend our money on. I don't agree with that,but its certainly a valid argument. (we don't spend 2/3 of our budget on particle physics,education or the military,all these things have to share the pie)
Whats not reasonable is presenting the lunatics viewpoint as having any sort of credibility. These people are a comical aside to the science that is being done. They should not be presented as having any sort of rational arguments.

There were in fact some legitimate concerns early on. Some people realized that if conditions turned out to be just right, extra dimensions,certain constants having values just right,etc, that there might be bad things that could happen. It was certainly a remote and unlikely idea,but it was looked into just the same. It was etermined that there was no reason to worry,in part because what is being done in the lab is not any different than things that happen in nature all the time.(particles hit the earth with these energies all the time and the earth hasnt been swallowed up in a black hole or consumed by a chain reaction of stranglets) The only difference is that its being done in a place where it can be observed.

As interesting (or perhaps comical) side note,it should be noted that there are plenty of nut jobs out there.They are not silent either. At my university the entire physics department gets a barrage of emails,usually in early fall and spring. They are usually people who are trying to promote some perpetual motion,or anti-gravity technology,or warning about some terrible disaster that will befall the earth like "harmonic convergence of the planets" or a black hole heading for the earth. Needless to say,other than the occasional joke at their expense,we don't pay a lot of attention to them.

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cyberbian — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 04:22:29 GMT

How do they know that protons collide at near light velocities in nature?

CERN said it happens all the time.

If they could witness it they would not need the LHC.

Protons are positively charged, they would repel each other. That repulsion is what made the early atom bomb research fail. It is extremely hard to achieve.

So how can they be so sure it happens at near light velocities in nature if they cannot observe it rather than build the LHC?

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Michael Kent Oh — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 04:26:40 GMT

Wheelwatcher, yes there is proof that neutrinos are very common. In fact,every beta decay of a radioactive nucleus,which are very common,must give off a neutrino to conserve angular momentum (spin). (a proton,spin 1/2,gives off a electron,also spin one half and turns into a neutron,also spin 1/2 so there must also be a neutrino,with spin 1/2) There have very little mass,and no charge so they dont interact with other matter very much. Thats why they are not dangerous,like say x-rays or gamma rays (which are only dangerous above a certain amount,we are normally exposed to lots of them in nature) The number of neutrinos created in particle accelerators are insignificantly small compared to the number we are exposed to from the fusion reactions happening in the sun.

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Zachery Marvin, Nine Mile Falls,WA — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 04:36:58 GMT

When i heard about LHC being built i thought "cool, mabee they will get their hands on some dark matter and figure out what that stuf is actualy made of. I wonder if it will make a big explosion." Then I found out that it was being built in Switzerland. Isn't switzerland known for its banks? If switzerland was destroyed, what effect would it have on the world and its money?

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Josh, Anaheim, California — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 04:53:58 GMT

Theres a door wating to be opened. Are we really supposed to just sit here for the rest of our lives wondering whats behind it?

Science will always move us farther than we are comfortable with at the time, but we always thank it in the end. I fully support the experiments that are taking place in the LHC.

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Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 05:08:18 GMT

Chrissi, VA...Many here were once sitting on the edge of a dream as a result of early to mid- 20th century science. Science that finally got it's act together in response to the previous 300 years and even much further.

We were 13 and I can tell you that the average 13 year old in the 50's and 60's wasn't pondering science in the way you are. You just have to put your mind and "faith" into people that immersed themselves into this. They represent an evolution of thought that started with at least the ancient Atomists of Greece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomism

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Daniel Holland, St. Louis, MO — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 05:52:43 GMT

Well. It turned on and we're still here.

Frankly, all I can say is "Lets see what happens".

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XMC — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 06:20:26 GMT

After reading these articles, and especially the posts, all I have to say is: Wow all of you know it all. Science, Politics, Environmentalism, Religion or more aptly non-religion, know no fear, understand all things. Why are all you geniuses wasting your time writing this stuff down- go solve all the worlds problems overnight and to everyone’s satisfaction. Scientists make me sick- think they know something and yet do nothing!

This LHC is another waste of money and time that the scientific community can argue over the results for decades to come. I just hope that it results in some technology that I can weaponize.

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Philip J. Calamatas — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:00:51 GMT

Carlton, Kamuela, Hawaii

Please note, that to produce a Micro Black Hole the speed of light does not have to be exceeded. This is true for both M-B-H and for Stellar Black Holes, what counts is whether enough mass can be concentrated into a small enough area where the force of gravity would be stronger than the escape velocity light. When a massive dying star collapses to form a black hole, no part of it exceeded the speed of light, but the B-H still forms.

Due to Newton’s law, gravity decreases (gets weaker) as a function of the inverse square of the distance from the center, however this implies that gravity gets stronger as you approach the center point. Physicists have long believed that the force of gravity would equal nature’s 3 other forces at a scale of 10^-35 meter. This by the way is the Plank dimension where there can be nothing smaller.

The LHC can be taught of a giant micro-scope but unfortunately it can’t probe anything smaller than 10^-19 meter, so this seems to say that it can’t produce a M-B-H, but here’s where some magic comes in. First of all, since both particles were traveling exceedingly close to the speed of light, each of these particles will have acquired about 7000 times their normal (at rest) mass when they collide head on. However physicists will say that even this is not enough to produce a M-B-H, so what’s missing? Well it seems that a certain group of physicists that postulates that sub-atomic particles are actually one-dimensional strings inhabiting an eleven dimensional universe. And in an eleven dimensional universe the inverse square rule for the weakening of gravity no longer applies, as gravity will now grow stronger by a factor of almost 1000 at the 10^-19 size, and this will allow the two particles to collapse unto themselves forming the M-B-H.

Please don’t say that its impossible for CERN to produce micro black holes as a lot of string physicists are hoping and praying to whatever deity they believe in that it will, as this will be the first proof that string theory has some measure of validity.

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Jason Isaacs, Carlsbad, CA — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:09:42 GMT

It breaks my heart to hear that fear mongers are scaring our kids so much.

Before I started writing this I had a whole speech prepared about how parents should control their fear and reassure their kids even if they themselves have doubts, but Alan already posted a link to a good article about that. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7610413.stm (Alan, can you link this again? Thanks!)

My 10 year old is really into science (she wants to be an astrophysicist or cosmologist), so when she asked me what I was reading about the other day I told her all I could explain (with my avid interest and imperfect knowledge) about the LHC, and yes, about the "doomsday" controversy as well. She had heard about the experiment (it's hard to avoid around me) but, luckily, she hadn't yet been exposed to the fear mongering, so I was able to bring it up and reassure her at the same time, openly and honestly. I think this will make her better prepared to deal with any "scary" stories she hears about it. And, she always knows she can talk to me if she's ever worried (and she does, openly and honestly, about anything).

To any parents reading this, if your kids haven't yet brought up fear about this to you, take a little time now to educate yourself and, if necessary, reassure yourself or control your own fear, then talk to your kids about it. Remember, it's easier to deal with a problem before it's a problem.

Oops, I guess I posted my speech anyway.

And now my rant begins (just now?)...

Shame on you, fear mongers! Stop spreading your scary "what if" scenarios to people who can't do anything about it. If you really think this is a threat, write to your members of Congress (or other parliamentary body) about it, write to the judges involved in the cases to stop the LHC, write to the scientists involved, or bloody make a sign and picket the d*mned LHC facility itself. Don't try to scare people about it! Spreading fear to the general public might make you feel important and good about yourself but it brings nothing good to anyone. If you get a kick out of scaring people, that really says something foul about you. You already have a suicide on your hands, don't make it worse. Shame, shame, shame.

Shame on you, people who pretend to know what you're talking about! I've read so many posts in support of the LHC by half-informed people that it makes me sick. While your support is appreciated, posting inaccuracies about it only adds to the argument against it! Like I said before, take a little time to educate yourself before you go talking about it. Shame, shame, shame.

Shame on you, people of faith who fail to have faith. *True* faith can stand being tested. If you *really* believed something then you wouldn't have worries about the potential for increased knowledge. If a god didn't want people searching for answers to puzzles, then that god wouldn't have given people curious minds. Shame, shame, shame.

Shame on ... ummm ... me? That's right, you self-important blowhard! Shame on you for trying to point out other people's shortcomings! You know you have enough yourself to fill a barge! (by you I mean I/me/my) Shame, shame, shame.

OK, so I've run out of people to cast shame on. Not really, but you get the point.

Thanks to Alan Boyle (and, if so, staff) for reading through all of these posts. It must be tasking! I really appreciate all of the insightful reporting you've brought to us over the years. Keep it up! (maybe the next subject can be less... ummm ... controversial ... so my comments can stand a chance of being read? Just kidding! :D )

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Jason Isaacs, Carlsbad, CA — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:31:55 GMT

OK, one more "shame" item I forgot to add earlier....

Shame on you, people who can't think outside of yourselves! Do you think, for one second, that the scientists running the LHC have less love for their families than you do for yours? Do you really think, for one second, that they would endanger their kids' lives if they had even the slightest indication that the LHC experiment would end their lives or those of other children? If so, then you need to re-think your own family values. This isn't "Us vs. Them" because "them" *is* "us". The physicists at the LHC only want to increase human knowledge, and thereby make the world a better place for everyone's children! If you can't see that then... Shame, shame, shame.

OK, *now* I'm done with the "shame" thing. You can go back to your lives. Thank You.

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SGT Cavaleri Jr. Tacoma, WA. — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 07:59:12 GMT

"It’s a fantastic moment," Lyn Evans, the project leader for the Large Hadron Collider, said afterward. "We can now look forward to a new era of understanding about the origins and evolution of the universe.”

Everyone,
I copied and paste the above from Boyle's artical.
Just to let you all know if you want knoweldge on the
origin of life or... scared of "Death" then read His word'(The Bible), it tells you EVERYTHING you need to know. Like Romans 6:23 for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life. Oh and don't forget Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Lets not forget the end times Revelation 9:6 And in those days men will seek death and not find it; they long to die, and death flees from them. Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. Amen

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Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 08:22:40 GMT

Truth Ma None,
You’re assuming Hawking was right.

Mike,
Are you saying people’s fear will create a black hole?

Thomas Arana wrote, “Just as A-bomb and H-bomb explosions had no deleterious repercussions on our planet, …” They didn’t crack the planet in half but I wouldn’t call their effects beneficial. If you don’t think they do anything bad set one off in your back yard and tell me how that goes.

Simon Rivers,
It’s only a few para-scientists that you’ve let play God with you.

Andrew wrote, “If what we know about black holes are only theories many scientists have agreed on, couldn't they still be wrong?” About black holes existing? Sure, they could be wrong. Point being that black holes are theoretical, even the big ones, but especially, *especially*, *ESPECIALLY* the tiny ones.

Thomas Ashby wrote, “I hope those strange particles produced will open the door to a way to make nuclear waste inert.” Come on, man, time will do that already. Well, more time than we have. Okay, I’m with you.

Brian wrote, “It is very annoying that there are so many idiots out there …” It has been well established that they don’t like being called idiots, stupid or simpletons. We should go with people of dimness. You can never be too polite or too politically correct.

John Doe gutlessly wrote, “and all you stupid people (mostly americans) get [an] education before you write your crap here...” It hertz when people talk hurtishly like that.

Alan,
If you’re going to continue to let through the “money should have gone to world hunger” comments will you at least let me post an obnoxiously long cut and paste comment - citing the data on how much is spent on this already, compare it to the cost of CERN, and evaluate the possibility that it doesn’t matter how much money you throw at a country whose leadership is corrupt, you’ll always have starving people – individually addressed to each commenter? It only seams fair that each one of them should have their concerns addressed. I mean, they haven’t taken time to see how those same concerns were addressed to all the other people who previously posted the same comment, but they might see it with their name on it. You wouldn’t want them going through life with the idea that their government misspent their tax dollars, would you? Or maybe just block them after an increasingly small number get through.

[ALAN ADDS: Tim, I know that you have your tongue in cheek when you're talking about an obnoxiously long posting, but I wanted to take this opportunity to mention that some folks have indeed submitted very long cut-and-paste postings which I have not approved. If you're going to refer to an extended essay or quotation, just post the link to that material rather than cutting and pasting.]

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me myself and i — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 09:31:33 GMT

This is armagedon in the making for one we dont even know how this machine will work.You are trying to play the role of somethiong greater than you can comprehend. This you say will be the greatest achievement of man, it will be our last if you keep creating a beast you cannot tame. I am 18 years old but i know for a fact these scientist are too caught up in there work and dont even realize that you are messing around with a dooms day device. quote" you are controlling what gave us life but it can take that away in a heart beat.

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Christina X, Kent, OH. — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:36:54 GMT

Hello.
I have recently only started hearing about this experiment on a social networking site I access, where a lot of fearmongering has taken place.

At least, I hope I can just call it fearmongering.

I can't stop looking up the topic out of apprehension. A lot of people think I shouldn't be, but I find myself spiraling into a deep depression.

I've felt detached from religion for a while, nearly borderlining along the brink of agnosticism, but I've been saying my prayers several of times throughout the day, simply hoping for the existence of God.

For a while, I even thought of signing a petition against the events to ensue on October 21st, and who knows? I just might.

The only place I can find consolation is out of reassurance that the odds of anything horrible happening is incredibly low, and reminding myself that there is a 99.99-to-several-decimal-places percent that Earth will be safe.

However, I also believe that the event has brought out the worst of the general public, to say the very least. On one hand, you have (what I hope to be) extreme overreacting and confusion. I'm perturbed by the fact that children as young as eight years old begging to stop the experiment because of teachers telling them they're about to die.

On the other hand, some folk need to quit being a little less arrogant, and a little bit more comforting. Even though I hope with every ounce of my being that they are correct, these people need to stop frowning upon others who they find to be "stupid". Everyone needs to stop treating this as an opportunity to attack each other's religious and political affiliations.

As for the sickening individuals making light of the situation because they weren't nominated for prom court: I'm at loss for words.

I'm praying for and eagerly anticipating October 22nd, when this is all done and over with.

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Scott Moroz, Port Jervis, NY — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:25:10 GMT

Will the knowledge that is pertained from these experiments benefit mankind directly? Will this make yours and mine lives better or more enriched in some way?...No, probably not, I would think. What a big waste of money finding out how the universe started. [...]

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pete — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 11:58:09 GMT

LOL If any one reads this APPROVED? comment great.I think it is funny how the guys like you say. Do not worry we know all about what could happen.. RIGHT. Just like like all the people that said there will no tsunami in all those poor Island coasts. Fact when it works every one is happy when it brakes who knows?

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Milton Billingsley, Santa Monica, Calif., USA — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:22:53 GMT

Only God has the right and the ability to destroy earth.
Allow the petty little, money grabbing countries to do what they may. When it's all over - the human race shall continue and more monies will be spent by politicians because they feel grander giving to the brains of the world then to the needy.

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Carol, Cochran, GA — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:45:39 GMT

I'm 57 and thrilled to have the Hadron Collider finally start up and get some experiments going. As far as the fear by children, it comes from the adults around them. I have seven children and five grandchildren ranging from age five to thirty-nine and they are all thrilled. They, hopefully, feel this way because I taught them to welcome the unknown, always be inquisitive, and when the earth is supposed to end, it will, with or without our help.

I hope they get the work going and we learn some "old", "new" stuff. I can't wait!

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Manoharan PK Padnakkad — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:54:15 GMT

Best of luck for this Big Bang expriment

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Mark Tabasco, Monroe, NY — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:01:29 GMT

Listen, can we look at this with some degree of logic and humility? First, some of the smartest and most knowledgeable people on the planet have looked at the possible outcomes from colliding particles at these energies and found it safe. It turns out nature collides such particles at much higher energies and persistent world-sucking black holes are not produced.

I believe the fear generated here is a symptom of our age of information overload. People don’t know how to determine the reliability of information. Just because I or anyone else writes something doesn’t mean it’s true. You need to check it out for yourself and make judgments on the reliability and quality of the source. In this case, people are giving undue weight to a small group with little or no expertise. If an acknowledged leader in the physics community expressed serious doubts about the LHC then concern would be warranted.

Second, regarding the potential benefits from LHC, how can we judge there would be little benefits when scientists are trying to discover something major about the universe that we currently don’t understand? It would be like telling Newton to never mind about those experiments studying gravity because what possible benefit can it ever be to know such things. The very future of our species depends on us shining the light of knowledge on the unknown. The LHC experiment is a leap of faith that if we discover how the universe really works we can enrich our own lives and those of the generations to follow.

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Arnfred Maberg — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:07:13 GMT

What's the matter with these people? Has intelligence gone by the wayside? These high energy events take place naturally all the time and nothing happens. The world seems to have a doomsday fascination. I think its time that schools teach kids (and grownups) a little science and technology to keep us up with the rest of the world.

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Chris R — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 16:28:35 GMT

Cyberian-
The chance of YOU winning the lottery and the chance of SOMEONE winning the lottery are two very different percentages...

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Muhammad Abdullah Khalid, Islamabad, Pakistan — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 20:26:49 GMT

I am a student of BE, and i am very much interested in science. To me it feels, that most people might have influence from the novels, stories or films. I just want to say to those people that, those movies and such things are based on the slight possibilities/theories, and there are many which you don't know, so again like Alan Sir said, "Don't Panic".
That was my comment, now coming to what i think, ummm....some of psychists say that there's nothing to panic about, Particularly quoting Mr. John Ellis, that these particles are all around, and more energetic collisions in the surroundings of the earth, didn't made black holes which engulfs our earth.
But one thing i would say, if even there is a minute possibility of things like that, and then if you think that could be controlled, awesome do it. But if you think that would be unstoppable, no cure, than whenever you get your first clue or hint by the collisions at LHC, take it seriously.

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CYNTHIA LINARES, CENTREVILLE, VA — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:24:47 GMT

MR BOYLE,
WHO GAVE YOU THE RIGHT OF MESSING WITH OUR WORLD, TO DO SOMETHING THAT MIGHT AFFECT EVERYBODY'S LIFE AND PUT ALL OF US IN DANGER.
SCIENCE SHOULD HAVE LIMITATIONS. MAKE MINI MODELS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO PROVE YOUR THEORIES. BUT DO NOT TAKE FOR GRANTED THAT WE (THE PEOPLE OF THIS PLANET) AGREE WITH YOU. YOU SHOULD BE STOPPED BY THE AUTHORITIES, BECAUSE YOU ARE VIOLATING OUR RIGHTS BY ACTING ON YOUR OWN, AND NOT OFFERING US THE OPPORTUNITY TO DECIDE WHAT IS BEST.

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Don, NM — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:29:38 GMT

Was it Neils Bohr who observed that not only does God roll dice with the universe, but sometimes he throws them where we can't see them?

We will either learn to live with uncertainty or we will be doomed to succumb to it.

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Gavrilo, Halifax, UK — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:31:10 GMT

The cost of the manhattan project wasn't exactly tiny either, I'm just glad to see cash spent on a project that doesn't have mass destruction as an INTENDED aim.

(p.s the war in Iraq costs the American tax payer approx. $4000 per second. Regardless of ones opinion of the conflict, its a far greater waste of money than this could ever be)

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Erica, Chicago, Illinois — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 21:58:06 GMT

... I don't think it is the best idea.. And Seriously, Why is this Nessescarey.. We have enough technology to go to mars, maybe even farther. The chances of us living from this what are they? Can you tell us that? Just because our governments are Greedy doesn't mean you should kill billions of innocents.

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Alan Boyle — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:43:15 GMT

Erica, it's not so much a question of chances as it is of possibilities. That's what scientists are going back and forth on: Is it possible for a collision of particles to create a subatomic black hole? The answer is maybe, if there are more than three dimensions to space (but not *too* many more). Is it possible for that subatomic black hole to start accreting matter? So far, the answer is no, although critics keep bringing up questions about more and more improbable circumstances. It appears to be more likely that Earth could be swallowed up by a passing stellar-sized black hole. But not very many people spend a whole lot of time worrying about it. At least in that case, we know that the scenario is theoretically possible (that is, assuming that black holes actually exist ... which some folks still don't assume).

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Mansour Haydari, NSW, Sydney Australia — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 23:31:39 GMT

Science is the answer to everything, so i a 15 year old boy is the memeber of a scientific group called WSAAG in australia and i think that this big bang theory is a bit wrong but by doing this experiment we can improve it as einstein had said "imagination is more important than knowledge" it means that your knowledge should be alot but you will forget it soimagination should be strong to understand this experiment.If Albert Einstein was alife today he would have said that this ius the exact work of Humans who have a brain to explore the world not to hide and say that God will protect us. Einsteins brain was 15% more powerful than normal humans because he thought about a particular problem from a circle which is to say that he didn't look in to a problem from one angle but from different angles to find an answer.So science is great!

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Mansour, Sydney, NSW Australia — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 23:39:43 GMT

Science is great so it is worth risking this experiment. As many people might say that why not spend the $9.5 billion dollar for Africa or other poor countries to fill their stomachs. That much could be spend only for 1 day or i week for the poors so with what money are you going to feed them tomorrow instead u could do the experiment and find the answers to many problems. if a million humans will die from hunger today then tomorrow in the future this experiment will help us for example we could find a defense to alien invasion or black holes. Sacrificing millions could save billions of human and other lifes. So why not spend the billions of dollars for poor that are spend on military each day.

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Mike Dorlac, Chatsworth, California — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:22:03 GMT

It makes me sad when I here some people say these large science machines are a waste of money. If Columbus had never set sail, we might not be here. If Lewis and Clark had never explored westwards, we might not be here now. I think Humankind's curiosity is nature's (or God's if you prefer) way of motivating us to expand our horizons in order to survive better. The more we understand the world around us, the better off we are. I say spend the money and turn on the switch, or else go crawl back beneath the rock we came out from under.

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Doug , Chicago IL — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 00:48:00 GMT

HaHa, I can't believe people think this thing is going to end the world! Come on people! [...] Realize what this thing could prove, or disprove, for that fact.... this thing is a Huge scientific breakthrough! Get over it! You're not going to die! like the man said, DON'T PANIC! (that's priceless by the way).

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Drew Wohlenhaus, bellingham, WA — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 01:14:09 GMT

I do not believe we should be trying to play with these kinds of physics when so few people truly understand the ramifications of a slight miscalculation in this realm.

Why not use these hundreds of billions of dollars to fund sustainable development projects which actually make sense and are not limited by the confines of the energy industries imagination, or rather their public archives.

Why is it in this world, that so many speak of going green and wishing for world peace when they continue to let their government spend its their money in ways unfit for humanity.

http://www.darpa.mil/body/budg.html

try this. ;)

http://peswiki.com/images/e/ea/IMG_0170.JPG

Lets also start playing with the matter that resonates above and below the visible spectrum, Tesla's work.

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mahyuddin,KL Malaysia — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 02:36:46 GMT

hi..i'm interested to know what happen when the experiment done.if faster the experiment the faster we get the answer.but for me i'm a muslim.god has create the universe with their power.the big bang has include in our holy quran how God create the universe.
so the big bang just a little theory.but we can do the search for knowing only.

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Ralph Garner — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 02:36:46 GMT

I have repeatedly stated that if there were mini black holes to eat up out planet and universe, I suggest that we would all have disappeared from our enviroment many years ago. After all of the nuclear explosions which the USA and Russia too had set off during the fifties and sixties we are still here and those explosions were the result of chain reaction of particle collisions. If there were a chance for the quarks to be fed into a mini black hole and perhaps there were many instances but nothing happened all elements eventually decayed or went back to their original state. Hiroshima and Nagasake were subjected to virtually the same powers and perhaps more power and greater temperatures than the LHC. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were uncontrolled collisions whereby LHC is a totally controlled enviroment.

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Ralph Garner — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 02:45:20 GMT

Humans for the most part are born ignorant and prefer to remain that way for life. These people should just go back in a cave or disappear into the daqrk hills and stay there. This world is suffering from an acute cancer and a study and a look into deep space and it is obvious that there is nothing but chaos there and it has its projectiles just waiting for the right time to splash down on earth and obliterate all life. Now it just may be possible that one day scientists may find a way to divert such a tragedy, but not if those dooms day seekers are to have their way. Are we to listen to ignorance or try to enlighten the world?

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Marko Zrakic, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 03:11:21 GMT

Mother Nature gives us life; air, water, food, etc. Once we've done something we werent so sure off/just to see whats gonna happen - Hiroshima & Nagasaki...
This is the same, but MUCH BIGGER and NOBODY KNOW FOR SURE THE EFFECTS ITS GONNA HAVE ON EARTH/US...
What does that tell us?? - Respect what youre given, and DO NOT try to change it!!!

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Lindy, Philadelphia, PA — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 03:59:07 GMT

I haven't read all of the comments here, but am tired of them. There are the condescending, the silly, the poorly educated, etc.
My view is fairly simple. I grew up being taught and believing that science was fact, and that we could only truly believe what we learned from science. Faith, philosophies, beliefs - were just what the words implied, without facts as proof, not to be taken seriously the way science was - aside from the fact that much of science was just theory.
As I approached middle age, with developing metaphysical beliefs, but feeling intimidated by scoffing at such beliefs by academics with scientific credentials, I sought to expand my scientific knowledge - my background in "facts." Well, what a surprise and revelation! As I began my research and reading, I read one scientific article after another discussing the current changes in scientific "theories." What was I to make of that? How could all of the facts I had been taught and learned be changing? The age of the universe was now a matter open to revision. The universe might not be expanding at the rate once thought. The big bang theory (whoops - not really a fact) might not have brought about the birth of the universe. Theory vs. fact! Hmmm . . .
So - I have a few comments for the well-educated commentators here. First, if Newton's gravity is not Einstein's gravity, and Einstein's gravity may not be right, I guess the facts my Physics teacher taught me in school were not quite accurate. If new data from the Hubble telescope made astronomers question the previously accepted age of the universe, I guess the facts they had propounded before were not quite accurate either.
I don't pretend to understand anything about the universe or life, or certainly anything about the purpose of life. I can't comprehend "nothingness." I can't comprehend a "beginning of time." But - what some pompous individuals with superior attitudes about their "scientific" knowledge or views fail to recognize is their own ignorance. Remember that a little learning is a dangerous thing! The question asked by some would be: "But what is a little learning?" If you protest that you have more than a little learning, my response would be that if you do not truly possess the complete answers, you may not have enough learning to ask the right questions. So - how can you KNOW that the "foolish" fears of some are wrong?
There are some questions to which we have reasonable answers, but even what appear to some to be the simplest of questions seem to have progressively more and more complex answers as time passes, and the answers often change with time. For example, what do we need to eat to be healthy? One of the wisest answers I was ever given to that question, despite all of the "expert" books written on the subject, was from my son's pediatrician, a member of the nutrition council of California. His answer was that we really didn't know. That was in 1979 - and we still don't know for sure what we need to make us most healthy. I've lived through the nutrition debates over the decades about vitamins, minerals, fiber, and newly discovered nutrients. The importance of Vitamin C in our diet has evolved from the 1970's claims that "Vitamin C cures cancer and colds," to the 1980's revision that "no, it doesn't," to the 1990's version that "well, maybe it does help to prevent cancer if you combine it with bioflavonoids."
So - back to blowing up the world with a particle experiment. Who knows? If anyone knew what the outcome of the experiment would definitely be, would there be any reason to conduct the experiment? Aren't they just trying to prove or disprove a theory?
A little humility here might be in order for any all-knowledgeable onces!
Think outside the box!!! Don't be so ready to scoff at the simpletons or children who might be fearful of this great venture. (As a mother, it is my view that children often show more wisdom than adults.) It may be that scientists have become too well-revered in our time. At the very least, the very basis of science is always that nothing is ever learned without first pondering a question. Perhaps there was or will be an end to this galaxy or universe - that was or will have been caused by this experiment - and maybe we already are or will be living in a parallel universe. Hmmm???

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Raymond Belanger, Las Vegas, Nevada — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 04:49:20 GMT

There never was a big Bang, There never will be one, because "BIG" is a subjective term, relative to things it can be compared with. There is only the tiny, tiny, minsucule,itsy-bitsy, Bang. pop, bing. Ray

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David, Kansas — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 06:00:38 GMT

I remember when I was a kid and something similar or major was going on in the media. Kids were acting all weird and a lot of facts got misinterpreted. For the most part, all of it was laughed off. The sad part about it was that if whatever it was ended up being unnoticed, businesses like Google, Yahoo and Microsoft would've never have existed.

The LHC was a good example of how people react to new revelations. People acted exactly like they did when the last great thing came and changed the playing field. The fear, the doubt, the anticipation was exactly the same. The only difference this time around was how the information was readily available because of the internet. The internet became a good buffer on how information was perceived. While there were some bad instances of people's negative reactions, ie suicides, lawsuits and death threats, people were able to inform themselves and react more rationally than they have done in previous human history.

The LHC was a huge success in terms of people awakening to revelation. Further down the road, the LHC will provide more avenues for providing integrity for the human race. All this fear is besides the point. We are human beings and fear is necessary to recognize. We fear, we question, we find answers. While I speak for no one but myself, I'm surprised how far we've come.

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Annabelle Edoille, Kansas — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 06:58:06 GMT

I've got to admit this is and awesome machine. To think it can send particles around a 17-mile loop a couple thousand times per second is just amazing. But i have to agree with many people out there, this just doesn't seem to be worth it! First of all, the money spent on this could have been used for a better cause. Spending $10 million doesn't seem to be worth building a machine that may or may not be capable of destroying Earth. Second of all, i think the risks outweigh the benifits a little too much. Do we really want to risk life itself just to see what the LHC can do? I'm not against it, but i'm not with it either. But what really angers me about this is it seems that the people of CERN don't really care if they are demolishing the hopes of people around the globe. I'm not saying thats how it is, that's just how i'm seeing it. I'm sure they realize there are some really superstitious people on this planet.

Many of us want the LHC to wait until we are certain its safe to use. I strongly beleive in God, and i also love science. I want the LHC to happen, but i don't want people hurt in the process. It just pains me to know that hardly anyone is doing anything about it. I'm sure some of you have heard of the girl in India who committed suicide in fear of the LHC. I'm a real softie, someone who cares about other people way too much for my own good, but how can i help it. People are scared out of their wits! People are still terrified when they say you have a greater chance in winning the lottery than the earth being sucked up into a black hole. People win the lottery every day They might as well say there's still a high chance! Why can't we just give a little reassurance to these people. The LHC doesn't need to be stopped comepletely, it just needs to wait.

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Steve Ripley — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 08:41:02 GMT

So, now we can make an educated guess about the beginning of the universe (this one anyway)...

Approximately 15-20 billion years ago, the folks on planet Earth had gotten plenty smart. They built a super collider that created (or re-created) the "big bang" that they theorized had started their universe approximately 15-20 billion years before that. Their new big bang was our big bang and so it was and so it will be ad infinitum. Until God says, "Come on kids... that's enough."

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samson, andhra, india — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:18:09 GMT

it is worst than terrorism ? why do these people all want to question GOD's creation? why people are still not satisfied with the current situations in the world(terrorism, poverty, floods, earthquake etc...) these are the things which have to looked upon and provide the solution

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Andrew, NJ — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:52:00 GMT

SHAME ON YOU FOR SCARING YOUR CHLDREN! Within one year all of you fearmongers are going to look and feel like complete fools. This project will reveal mysteries. And in ten years from now when the research learned from this makes its way into consumer products, I hope you remember how silly you have been.

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Carlton, Kamuela, Hawaii — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:39:22 GMT

CHILDREN and OTHERS, DON'T WORRY; IT'S IMPOSSIBLE and Philip J. sorry I was not clear enpugh for you!
Tonight I saw Leonard Susskind (world renown physicist and expert on both black holes and string theory, even has shown Hawking wrong) on TV saying that the LHC can not make mini black holes. He said that only analog mini black holes MIGHT be possible with the LHC, but real mini black holes are IMPOSSIBLE. Again, it is often helpful to IMAGINE IMPOSSIBLE things, but we need not be concerned about their harming us.
Again, IMPOSSIBLE things, even if IMAGINED, won't harm us.
Sorry, Philip, that I did not write clearly enough for you. If you read again, carefully, you will find that NOWHERE did I say the LHC could not make mini black holes becase it would require exceeding the maximum speed of light OR our going to another universe where the maximum speed of light had a larger value than in our universe. The point being made was that things that are IMPOSSIBLE have been found in our physical universe like physical bodies being able to move at speeds faster than the maximum speed of light, among others mentioned, including the LHC being able to make real mini black holes that can gobble up even a baseball let alone our planet.

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Adam Buie, Dobson, North Carolina (High School Junior) — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 14:41:04 GMT

There is no certain outcome to an experiment, even on an elementary school science fair project. That is why science is THEORY, not FACT. You can never be 100% certain if everything will happen the way we think. The speculations on whether or not this machine will destroy the earth is merely that: speculations. The chances of a theory be correct without ANY prior evidence except other theories are slim to none. I realize this and I'm just a junior in high school. When we do labs in my AP Environmental Science course, we always make sure that we have some physical evidence collected by us our someone else before formulating a hypothesis. If we didn't have that prior data, then my guess on what would happen in the lab would be just as good as an illiterate man trying to explain quantum physics.
So, what I am trying to say is all the scare of this machine destroying earth is just another example of mass hysteria based on an opinion that has no relevance in the realm of science.
However, in my opinion, IF the theories of a subatomic dooms day were relevant (if you cannot tell, I think the dooms day theory is enviable,) then mankind would suffer from his own ignorance. Man was not intended to try and change the way nature works. We can change nature in the sense that it benefits the development of man-kind, but as for me, i think this experiment will open the eyes to a nature we have never seen!

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Bindu Udupikrishna, Woodbridge, NJ — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:25:25 GMT

I wish you success in the experiment. Real anxious to learn more from these experiment and discover more fundamental particles like the Boson etc.

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Arshdeep S. Tarwinz — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:30:47 GMT

i read some were in the above comments that the accelerated particles in the vac.. tubes produce large amounts of enery and radiation. My question is, are you trying to harness that energy and maybe put it to good use?

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Lance, Buffalo Grove, Illinois — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:23:34 GMT

I tend to agree with the "immigrant". We, as a country, are loosing our edge. We are becomming a "service" nation.....would you like fries with that?

Schools are not preparing students for high end positions in degree programs (engineering, science, math..ect.). Instead we have an influx in "management" degrees....preping our children for upper level WalMart positions.

Take a close look around, students fear true academics, and are opting for easier ways to get that degree. Manufactures are opting for "ANY DEGREE" employees just to fill the gaps. I have seen numerous employees assigned to positions they are not qualified for.

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Steve O, NY — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:26:49 GMT

Some people don't understand that the science expirements of the world help you better to understand your creator.. The people that are threatened by this science project are either too scared to see that the big bang existed and god isn't real, or that everything they knew could have been true, and another expirement goes out the window to prove god wrong (I don't capitalize his/her name because its not that important).. So in an essence, every science exp. has its risks, just like pouring baking soda in vinegar, it could get all over you, or adding water to acid instead of vice versa and having it react and cover you in Sulfuric Acid. My point is, yes there is too much fear, thanks to the U.S., and christians of this world who want to believe in faith alone and hear nothing of science when in reality, science and faith go hand in hand, and since most of the religion that is read, can't be proven but by faith, whats the problem with an atom smashing expirement?

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Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:28:04 GMT

THE THING WITH CYNTHIA LINARES, THAT’S WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT!! But I’m not sure if that was in this thread or not. It was people thinking Alan’s in charge and putting us all in jeopardy and going after him, although this is just some legal implication.

Alan Boyle wrote, “[T]hat is, assuming that black holes actually exist ...” The only question is whether or not they can actually be “black.” It assumes that there is a point where gravity is so strong that light can’t get passed it. A spherical body of fixed density, that is, not even mechanical compression, has it’s surface gravity increase by a factor of 2 every time it’s radius increases by a factor of 2. A sphere of stale marshmallows would eventually turn into a low density black hole. Adding in mechanical compression and the various degeneracies you get to black hole faster. And if not black you still get a serious gravity anomaly. The only requirement is enough mass. So if mass does anything like attract other mass …

Annebelle Adoille wrote, “[T]he risks outweigh the benefits a little too much.” (sic) Articulate a risk. Keep going with how it comes to be. I think you’ll quickly find that you really mean your uncertainty outweighs the benefits.
And someone committed suicide because they thought they might die. It seems other issues were at play.

Philip and Carlton,
First, I love the back and forth. Carlton’s comment specifically did not apply to high mass black holes. And he was writing for the uneducated. Even if he did phrase something not so right you’ve got to give anyone some latitude in that situation. Such things aren’t intended to stand to much scrutiny. Carlton, I think your dumb down needs to go a little further. I may be underestimating kids, but “oversimplified” for you is still a couple of pay grades over their heads.
I think the point Philip is making is that on approach to light speed energy increases incredibly. Momentum goes up phenomenally. Many people think this translates as an increase in mass. More speed, more mass. Close enough to light speed and there is adequate mass in even a single particle to make a black hole. All that without violating light speed.
All that also without any mechanism to convert speed to mass. The energy equation makes it look possible, and we can see effects the other way. But for it to work we’d expect to see fast moving particles pop into slow moving bunches of particles. I haven’t heard of that. And that would apply per particle, not some speed relative to the oncoming particle, so it’s not a collision thing. So Carlton seems to have a good point about requiring faster than light. No amount of speed slower than light produces actual mass, as far as I know. No actual mass, no black hole.
Sorry if I’ve misread and misinterpreted either of you. If I have please put the right information out.
I think there’s some gravity effect at high speed that replicates momentum, but I’ve got nothing but my gut for that. And even at that I don’t think it would effect a collision except to give velocity a nudge at the very, very end because I think it will go away as velocity disappears. But that’s just my own fantasy, no backing.
And, as always, my thoughts are string theory aside. I don’t get it. Maybe that’s me not being able to make sense of it, or maybe that’s string theory not making any sense.

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Hans Gelsing, Ontario — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:42:42 GMT

If you think that the LHC experiments are dangerous then,
how about the Bio and Chemical experiments done in Labs around the world.
They are so scary nobody talks about them. Especially the military Labs.
If something leaks out of the LHC, the machine shuts down and the problem will be fixed.
If something leaks out of those Bio Labs and they can’t contain this, then it can spread around the world and kill us all.

Put the LHC into full force and I hope you find what you want,
and hopefully the signatures of the remainders from some black holes to.

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Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:19:50 GMT

This is funny ! Don't Panic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXzugu39pKM

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Dr bellamy — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:28:14 GMT

It's not just the impossible hypothesis of blacks holes that should worry society; The protons, neurons and other particles that are emitted, along with the muons and other particles that we don't even know yet are coming right out of the machine and bombarding the entire earth and beyond. This isn't just a collision of known particles! Of course we are being irradiated from this project. Who knows what we are ALL being blasted with, as these particles blast right through the earth in every direction, and we don't know what particles they interact with. It's not as safe as claimed, any high school physics course will prove that!!!

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Pablo Kirk, Plano, TTX — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:29:50 GMT

I for one am a supporter of the LHC conducting these experiments. I am no scientist but I am also not an ignorant person. It is human nature and curiosity that drive us as a human race to further us and our existence.
There have always and will always be risks involved to every idea, every machine, every idea that is put into action for the first time. We can look back in history and see the mistakes that were made, the terrifying weapons made due to such ideas but on the same hand we can also see that in taking some of those risks and exploring new ideas and machines such as this one in question now, we have also provided many life changing and often crucial answers and solutions.
Throughout each new invention and each new idea there has been supporters and critics. I hear a lot of people saying “consider the children”, “think of your child”, “why would you want to do such a thing to the earth”. These are all valued points that were taking into consideration by the thousands of scientists that have been working on the LHC for the past 14 years. But you have to believe, especially in today’s times with all of the current laws, ethics and governments in place that all precautions have been weighed, measured and taken.
So the way I see this situation is like any other that has preceded it, that is to say after all the experiments have been completed, all the data collected, all the scientists have dispersed and the machine is powered down; we are capable of learning so much more about ourselves, our place in the universe, new advancements in technology and science as well as in the medical and physics fields.
If this could set us on a path to find cures for diseases or ways to improve life, would you not want that? And would all the critics then turn to supporters of the idea?

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Rod Burr — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:45:12 GMT

I have to agree with some of your critics. I believe it was a failure to both Journalism AND Science, in addition to public welfare to mindlessly, state that, "the most likely scenario is scientific advancement, which is meaningless in the grand scheme." It was such a failure on all counts, because it utterly failed the objectivity test, and lead readers to the logically inscapable conclusion that there is no reason to pursue the project except for mankind's arrognace in the blind pursuit of knowledge, in complete disregard of any and all risk of cost or consequence. IN FACT, there is at least one HUGE potential payoff, that could result from this effort. It could lead to the solution of the world energy dilemma, by leading to the optimal technique for producing cold fusion energy. It could elminate the U.S. dependence on foreign oil. By extension, it could usher in a new age of world peace, as the importance of the Middle East to the Western World drops off into near obsurity. It could dramatically increase standards of living as cheaper, safer energy becomes abundantly available, while simultaneously, reducing carbon emissions by an order of magnitude, thereby dramatically reducing polution and global warming. Yes, I can see how those would be viewed as "meaningless". You also failed to point out that there is strong logical reasoning to accept the overwhelming majority of scientists, who agree that there is no realistic risk, in the observation that the exact collisions created in the LHC ALREADY ARE OCCURRING all around us all the time, only at much more intense levels... with no negative effects... PLUS... it is a fact that "Black Holes" can only exist... because of their extreme Mass... consisting of much more than our entire solar system... meaning... there is no way they can be created... when the necessary mass is not even present.. to create the critical mass necessary to trigger one. You had it within your reach to provide a "reasonable" assurance of a near zero probability (while pointing out that an absolute zero probability is mathematically impossible), and to explain the potential benefits, which more than offset that near-zero risk... and in effect, explain the true reasoning that justified the project to begin with... thereby giving a more accurate... more fair... more responsible... more professional distribution of information to the public. What a waste of a communication channel.

[ALAN ADDS: Rod, are you addressing me, or the people who have made comments (such as the person you quote at the beginning of your own comment). If you're talking to me, I think you're misattributing some quotes, and I also hope that I've done most of the things that you've recommended ... even though you may not have noticed.]

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JT — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:05:09 GMT

I love science. I'm just really bad at math!!! I am very excited to see what answers these scientists find. I'm also excited to see what new questions arise from the experiments.

As for being afraid? Not one iota of fear here. I didn't even fear Y2K. In fact I thought it was rather amusing how out of control that whole situation got. This is talk of doomsday with the collider is beginning to take on that same amusment for me as well. People need to stop fearing science. Remember not everyone believes in the same God or even in God at all.

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Tommy, Herford, NC — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:16:15 GMT

Wow!

Alan, it amazes me how people have evolved over just a short period of time. They are scared of everything and teaching thier children to be just as scared. I would love to see these same people's reaction in the early 1900's when Orville and Wilber took flight. 'Lets get lawyers and the court to stop this....men flying, how obsurd, and what a complete waste of time and money.'....'what,...cars run on gas?... doesnt gas explode and catch fire...what idiot would drive one of those!.'

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Dan, Toronto, Ohio — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:18:51 GMT

I can't wait for them to prove MY theory of elementary particles is correct:
The "Big Bang" is really the "Big IMPLOSION" that is still happening to this day (proof: time intself). Where there already exists a mini black hole of antimatter stored inside of the hadron that holds matter in time. The effects of the antimatter and regular matter add together to create the strong forces, and the weak forces are the type of effects that would cancel out if it weren't for the difference in the radii of the antimatter event horizon compared to the outer shell of regular matter that surounds the antimatter black hole. When you crack this shell open, most of the regular matter is absorbed into the antimatter black hole while it is disipating, and what is left is the remnants of regular matter. Kind of quarky, isn't it?
I hope they find out everything they could ever learn. I hope they find out that it is only energy that can not go faster than the speed of light, and that it might someday be possible to build a space ship that can in fact go faster than light. I think they are on the right track to finding out all the answers we could ever ask about our existence. Good Luck guys.

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James C. — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:55:02 GMT

Not wanting to sound like an alarmist and I don't believe that what I will hypothesize IS actually true, but imagine for a moment. Scientists have long been wondering what triggered the Big Bang that is said, by science, to have led to our universe. Imagine, potentially, that a universe existed prior to our universe, with scientists on some small, blue planet planning to initiate a program of research such as this and when they initiated a micro-Big Bang, they started what led to us, obliterating themselves in the process. Well, maybe I am a doomsayer afterall. I will stress again, though, that I don't believe my hypothetical scenario. Everyone have a good day.

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william, panama city florida — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:55:18 GMT

A person by him or herself is quite intelligent on average but add a small group and you get instant morons subject to panic, fear, and mob like behavior. The hype on this project is just that. hype. Large scale particle accelerators have been around for a number of years. The only difference between the past accelerators and this new one is the size and cost. And yes its true it can generate temperatures 10,000 times that of the core of the sun but what everyone seems to be forgetting is the blast size is smaller then the tip of a needle and this blast is surrounded by a few 100 feet of steel, concrete, rock and earth. Even if something bad was to happen it would happen in a space about 1 foot wide.

As for the Collider being a waste of money who knows maybe, maybe not.
I would ask this question is the search for answers worth the cost.
The collider will give us clues to new energy and particles that could lead us to the stars and beyond. There is always risk in trying something new but because of the very nature of this project the people evolved in this took their time and planed for every possible problem after all the project took 14 years to come on line. Most of the people panicking over this where not even born when they broke ground on the project. And shame on the adults who didn’t bother to even read the articles before opening their mouths all they did was make themselves look very foolish. A little research into the area would have put to rest a lot of peoples fears. Understand anything dealing with high levels of energy has risks but the people designing the Collider didn’t build the thing out of wood and duct tape. There's a reason it cost 10 billion dollars.

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dat crazy bok — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:37:44 GMT

when columbus left for the new world, there were people who said he would fall off the end of the 'flat world'. when we began exploding nuclear weapons, there were those that said we would incinerate the atmosphere and cause the extinction of the human race. when we began the race for space, there were still others who said the hole in the atmosphere caused by the exiting space ship would cause instant (or prolonged) death for the human race. and yet we're still here... still thinking that somehow, our insignificant little species (still but a newborn according to planet standards) might actually cause some sort of monumental destruction of not only ourselves, but our planet, solar system, and universe. let's just realize we are what we are. an insignificant speck on the rear end of time, and leave it at that. earth will go on. life will go on. with or without us.

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Tim, Schaumburg, IL — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:28:45 GMT

I don't know if anyone can you provide a reasonable response to this question, or a link to information about it but here goes: how do we know that if a black hole is created nothing bad will happen? I have a decent understanding of physics for a lay-person, and I don't think/fear that the LHC will bring about the end of the world, because I take the word of all the people that are far smarter than myself who state the LHC is safe. However, I am curious as to what the real research/theoretical basis is for knowing that we can contain/control a black hole or stangelets or what not.

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Dan Fielding — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:55:37 GMT

I am excited. If this can open possibilities for time travel, I need to go back to last week and tell myself not to buy that $40 umbrella. I totally could have used that cash today.

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Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:29:42 GMT

Unless Rod Burr is calling the rest of us journalists he seems to be making my point again. Alan gets blamed for everything. I, uh, "misplaced" a shoe. Um, Alan, you wouldn't "happen" to know anything about that?

Tim,
If nobody answers and you write back so I know you're actually checking I'd be happy to take a shot at it.

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Rodney Sibert, Trussville, AL — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 01:26:04 GMT

I can't remember being as excited as I was the day they fired her up (LHC).
Cassini / Huygens was a high for me, but this, this is tomorrow, this is history, this is a huge leap forward. Trying to find Higgs Boson particle (God Particle). Sure it a theory, but almost all experiments begin with a good theory.
I can't wait for full throttle up!!!
Thanks for the info Alan. Keep em' coming...

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Carlton. Kamuela, Hawaii — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:13:09 GMT

Tim, Philip, and Others
The LHC comes nowhere near moving things close enough to the maximum speed of light for many of the things being claimed to possibly happen. I'm not bothering to calculate or look up the speeds the LHC can produce (I seem to remember about 99.9999% the speed of light and, if correct this would mean that the proton mass would increase about 700 times), but one must get closer to 99.99999999% for many of them to be possible. Even the SSC wasn't getting such speeds if it had been made.
What I have just said does not contradict my statements of "IMPOSSIBLILITY", even at 99.99999999%, made in earlier comments. I do have a PhD in theoretical physics, but I am not in the class of Leonard Susskind, mentioned in my last comment posted already, and I am not using string theory in coming to the "IMPOSSIBLE" conclusion which Susskind handles. Susskind is also careful to point out that there is no scientific evidence, thus far, to show string theory, a mathematical theory, fits physical reality; therefore, string theory can't be relied upon for predcting what will happen in the physical world. Knowing this last fact, Susskind can still know and support the "IMPOSSIBLE" (for LHC) based on the mathematical theory of Special Relativity which has been shown to fit physical reality in every situation tested.
It is IMPORTANT for all to recognize that there are some things that are IMPOSSIBLE in our physical universe, ABSOLUTES (I have given several examples in my earlier comments, especially one that all can experience, the impossibility of distinguishing rest from motion at a constant velocity, an ABSOLUTE for our physical universe). Another is the fact that the gravitational force we experience is ATTRACTIVE, not replusive, in our physical universe. With no other physical forces than gravity being involved or of consequence, we all know enough to put our hand BELOW the point from which a coin is released from rest from some distance above the ground if we wish to have a chance of catching it after it is released. Anyone who places their hand ABOVE the release point has very little experience of the ways of our physical universe or a poor memory (of course, there are those who would ridicule those placing their hand above the release point and most could understand why). One can, therefore, safely and correctly say it is IMPOSSIBLE to catch a dropped coin in a hand placed above the point of release under the stipulated conditions. Under the stipulated conditions required by Quantum Theory, it is IMPOSSIBLE in our physical universe to measure both the velocity and position of a physical body with 100% accuracy. Einstein resisted this fact of our physical universe to his dying day because he let his feelings about physics get in the way of logical consistency. It Was amazing because his faith in his Relativities was tied to our physcal universe being logically consistent. He saw Quantum Theory as a destroyer of a physically consistent universe. Today, we know that Quantum Theory actually attests to the self-consistency of our physcal universe. To get the precise position (position with 100$ accuracy) of a physical body one has to give up all knowledge of the motion of the body (high speed cameras show high speed bodies as standing still, thereby, making position location possible).
Well, it's time to run it by again. Under the stipulated conditions, limitations, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a mini black hole (there is no proof that the LHC with its limitations can even make one) produced by the LHC can gobble up a baseball, let alone the Earth. Susskind agrees without invoking string theory and adds that string theory, if invoked, only shows analog (not real) mini black holes MIGHT arise.

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Allen — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:18:42 GMT

So what?
We all became experts in the field of particle physics when we learned that E=mc2 can blow stuff up?

Can I also conclude that we are all neurosurgeons if we can locate the brain on a chart of the human anatomy?

Of course not. Let neurosurgeons and particle physicists do what they were born to do or go get yourselves a degree in that field and then tell them they being stoopid and dangerous.

Class dismissed.

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Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:55:30 GMT

Carlton,
I agree with you here. My reference to string theory was just that I can't wrap my brain around it so what I've said may not hold up if you change the rules. The inclusion was because Philip tends that way. Kudos to anyone who can make sense of it, I say.
You hit on an interesting point, to me at least. I've been toying with the idea that our mass attracts our mass, anti-mass attracts anti-mass and they are mutually repulsive. Just electrical or magnetic forces backwards. It would maintain symmetry, which I've never been able to abandon, while explaining the lack of antimatter locally. Totally off subject, but thoughts?

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Micheal Dhallginzher — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 06:51:43 GMT

I, for one, am not afraid about some black hole or strangelet, but of how this is affecting people. The majority of the people who have posted are arguing that if there is a chance that it can happen, it can happen! Many people don't realize the emotional and physical distress that people are going through because of this. Yes, it would be wonderful if the LHC would wait a little bit, and it would be even better if we learned that this expierement is safe. Give them at least a month to make further investigations and people will feel more confident. But i'm not stopping anyone, so go for it, CERN! This is the greatest accomplishment that man has ever acheived! I'm just hoping it will help more than hurt.

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Carlton, Kamuela, Hawaii — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:45:06 GMT

A Couple of Additions
and Tim
It should be remembered that while certain things in our physical universe are IMPOSSIBLE many others are only highly improbable. For example, it is IMPROBABLE, not IMPOSSIBLE, for spaceships or whatever, to escape the Earth without the ability of the spaceship to attain the escape velocity on its own (reason in what is following). While sitting in your chair it is IMPROBABLE that you will suddenly find yourself moving upward at about bullet speed and crashing through the ceiling, IMPROBABLE but not IMPOSSIBLE. Not IMPOSSIBLE, because the molecules of your body are moving around at random in your body at about
700 miles per hour and while very improbable it is not impossible that their random motion can manage to result in their all moving upward in unison and, thereby, propelling you through the ceiling. This fact is why, in an earlier comment, I had to say that only gravitational force was to be considered or of consequence. There is an extremely small finite, non-zero, probability, that the molecules in a coin in your pocket could "conspire", in the way just mentioned for those in your body, so that the coin could put a large wound through your leg. The next time you worry about a coin doing this or your being propelled to through the ceiling (heat your body up enough and your molecules might even propell you to the Moon; do you keep a spacesuit on all the time just in case?). Should you or any other rational person worry about these "molecular conspiracies" doing these mentioned things to you? Of course not. Because the probability is not zero, chronic gamblers will bet on it if given enough odds (say one penny to get a million dollars) and some scientist may bring fear of such not-impossible events. Rather than join the chronic gamblers you would be wiser to get a million dollars from their pennies. It is not impossible for all the air molecules in the room you are in to "conspire" to all head into a foot cube in the corner of your room and, if you don't die from the lack of air, the explosion they make on returning to fill the room will surely get you. :-)
If you find this stuff ridiculous, then you know how knowledgeable physicists feel about proposals that the LHC will produce mini back holes that will gobble up the Earth.
Worrying about the LHC destroying the Earth? Well, it is far more likely your leg will be ripped off by the change, with its molecules moving at bullet speed, in your pocket.
Tim, antimatter (antimass, mass of antiparticle) does NOT repel mass; it gravitationally attracts it) Antiparticles have OPPOSITE charges (positive and negative),but they have positive mass. The antielectron (the positron, positive charge) and the electron (negative charge) BOTH have the same (positive) mass, hence, gravitationally attact, do not repel. A repulsion force MAY be experienced by masses sufficiently far apart (may be a possible reason for accelerated expansion of our universe), but experimental evidence of this hypothesis may never be possible for us. Incidentally, some call this repulsive force a gravitation force, but, doing such leads to confusion when "gravitation", by long time definition (check any reputable dictionary) has meant an attraction.

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CB, Baltimore, MD — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:47:26 GMT

To the Doomsayers and the ignorant...this was how the Dark Ages started

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Max, Savannah, G — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:40:05 GMT

I think the guys at Telegraph made the stuff up about LHC starting its first collsion next week, what do you think, Alan?

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John Kenny Long Island NY — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 01:03:23 GMT

somebody please explain to me how this is safe. i don't trust this project at all, i'm sure that the knoleage to be gaind is overwellming, and giant leap for man kind, but if there is a slight chase of a doomsday is it realy worth the chanse. i would love to support the hard work you all are doing for science but i'm more terrorfid than supportive. i want garrentess and explanations. and if it creates a big bang how could you control something that powerful. so what i'd like is a list of posible doomsday and ressions why not to fear
John Kenny age 16

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Jill W, St. Louis, MO — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 07:36:48 GMT

I'd like to know where I can sign an official petition to stop this! I truly do not enjoy losing sleep every night because of nightmares about this experiment! In fact as I am typing this, it's 2:30AM and have been up since 1AM due to a nightmare! I believe I read an article where USA contributed money to this experiment yet the economy is in DIRE need of help! As an average American struggling to keep her head above water, I'd much rather see USA focusing it's efforts on boosting the economy than shelling out money on an experiment.

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NA , BC Canada — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:13:16 GMT

All the assurance , but you still cant get any of the guys operating it to say they feel 100% sure nothing will happen. Why is that?

[ALAN ADDS: I think they do say that, and I've quoted them saying it. Sometimes scientists are reticent about using the "100 percent" figure. After all, there is a slight chance that a rogue black hole will meander through our solar system and tear through Earth. Probably there's more of a chance of that happening than any threat from a Planck-scale gravitational singularity, which I'm betting occurs naturally and we don't know it ... based on the usual quantum strangeness. But I'm no physicist so I'm not betting much. How about 10^-25 dollars?]

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Michael — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:09:53 GMT

Someone asked how much if these are actual facts and how much are theories. I think you misunderstand what a theory is and what a fact is.
Look at it like this. There is a fact of gravity. When you drop a ball,it falls to the floor,accelerating around 10m/s^2. That is a fact. There are qualifiers on that. If you have your hand on the ball,but its sitting on the table,when you drop it it just sits there because the table is supporting it. If you throw the ball,it falls back to earth too,but it takes a parabolic trajectory. These are all facts.
There is also a theory of gravity. I wont go into how this is derived,becuase this isnt a calculus class,but if an object accelerates constantly at a rate of 10m/s^2,then its velocity is 10t+v0,that is,10*(time)+(initial velocity) and its position is 5t^2+v0(t)+x0,where x0 is the initial position. This is theory.It does not mean that its not valid,that its "only a theory". You can take it to the bank. If you drop an object,under the conditions that the equation was derived,then it WILL react just as the theory says.
In fact,you trust these theories with your life every time you get into a car,or fly in an airplane and they allways work. Of course someone will now come back and say "airplanes crash sometimes". That is true. However,the theory predicts that too. When an airplane crashes,the FAA investigates and tries to find out why. They find things like a bolt failed due to friction,or turbulence caused the pilot to exceed the specifications of the airframe and something broke. That's all consistent with the theory as well. The theories of gravity,and mechanical systems are very very well understood.
Similarly,the science of objects moving very fast,special and general relativity are very well understood. In fact many times they have predicted odd results which seem on their face counter intuitive,but when someone went ahead and did the experiment it worked out just as the theory predicted.

Its true that the particle physics is not as well understood. That does not mean that we have no idea what will happen however.For instance,you know that a high energy particle collision wont create a black hole and swallow up the earth. We know if from observation. Thats good science. The observation that tells us this is that particles slam into the earth with energies far greater than we can ever hope to get in a particle accelerator. We dont see any black holes. The answer to why we know that there will be no doomsday black holes is therefore that we have seen such collisions all over the place and have verified that it never happens.
Why do the experiment then if we have already seen the result? Consider this. If we crash two cars head on, we know the collision didn't create a black hole and swallow up your car,its still there. You can see it. We also have a good idea of the outside limits of the damage caused. The cars are destroyed,the occupants injured and sometimes debris is thrown off the cars and hits other things. We can even make useful guidelines on how far away the debris can cause damage and what kind of materials can protect onlookers nearby.(perhaps useful at a Nascar event?)

We don't however know much about what happens during and just after the collision. Thats something we probably want to know (for very practical reasons in this case) What we do therefore,rather than just looking at the wreckage and injured people and making inferences,is to put some crash test dummies in a car,wire them with sensors and film it with a high speed camera. We know the outside limits of what will happen. We have seen crashes before. We know the dangers. We have a very good understanding of what we need to do to protect onlookers from debris flying off the wrecks. There is no risk involved. What we learn are the specifics. The things that you cant really find out by looking at wrecks that happen randomly,because you don't have all the accelerometers and slow motion cameras. Is the experiment irresponsible? What if a part flies off a car and kills someone in the next office building? The answer of course is,the things we DO understand before the experiment are enough to ensure safety.

Similarly the results of the particle accelerator experiments are certain to be consistent with what we know now. We know now for instance that the collisions that happen in nature are often as energetic,or more so than the ones we do now. We know that the earth,in four billion years,has not been swallowed up by black holes. There is simply no need to worry.

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Michael — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:26:02 GMT

Kieran Mohen, Perth, Western Australia writes ". What an appalling embarrassing waste of money. Please think about this. "
I am not trying to be confrontational or dissmissive here,but I would suggest that you should instead consider what an appalling embarrassing hypocrisy that statement is. You are typing on a computer. The parts for your computer were made in dozens of countries. There are very few aspects of mankinds science or technology that have not played a part in its creation. Even ones you would not consider.
Navigation of all the aircraft and ships that transport the parts use GPS,which relies on calculations from general relativity to work. The chips themselves are simply not production without a good understanding of quantum mechanics. The ion implantation that is used to manufacture computer chips uses a particle accelerator (although far less sophisticated than the kind we are talking about here) The many bodied quantum theory that is often used in particle physics problems is also used in solid state physics which is critical to the design of computer chips.
In fact,discoveries in science and engineering are typically shared over many different ares. The inconel super alloys that were developed in the 1940s for jet engine turbines are used in the exhaust systems of high performance sports cars. As are the same kind of computer chips that make satellites,pocket calculators,desktop computers and intercontinental ballistic missiles work. For years,a beam of electrons accelerated at a screen was used to excite a phosphor and create an image for every computer and television. In the 1930s,polarization filters were developed and had little use. They were then used in WWII to detect enemy submarines. Later it was found that you could make certain molecules act as polarization filters that could change direction with an applied electric field. That led to the development of flat panel displays. The list goes on and on.
Of course people ask what this research could give us? We dont know all of what it can give us yet. We wont know for another hundred years or maybe more. However,I do know a scientist that worked at CERN on particle detectors. Last I heard,he was working on a detector for medical xrays that could be used to enhance the contrast of images of breast cancer or injuries. The technology is the same. We all like the nifty gadgets,but if we want them,we have to do the basic reasearch.

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Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:48:49 GMT

Carlton,
I don't think that was so ridiculous. I'm sure something like that happens to my socks. Well, they used to be my socks.
Is positive mass known or theorized? Is there room in a magnetic bottle for it to puddle up or down or is the force exerted by the bottle so great that gravitation (attractive or repulsive, as electrical or magnetic) is negligable? Consider this thinking out loud.

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Carlton, Kamuela, Hawaii — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:56:10 GMT

LISTEN TO ALAN AND A DOCTOR OF THEORETICAL PHYSICISTS
I am the Doctor (Ph.D.) in Theoretical Physics and I'll bet even more than Alan that the LHC will NOT produce a mini black hole that will gobble up even a baseball, let alone the Earth. So, STOP worrying and having nightmares, unless you worry that while your sleeping all the randomly (some up some down, some right and some left, etc.) moving molecules in your body manage to bounce off one another in such a way that they all move upward in UNISON at their average speed of about 700 miles per hour and, thereby, hurl you against the ceiling above your bed at that speed and, therefore, kill you. Physicists are not (and can not be or scientifically, in truth, say that they are) 100% certain that this won't happen to you tonight or sometime in your entire life, but they will be willing to bet, far more than Alan's figure, that it won't even if they can't say they are 100% scientifically certain it won't. Does any sane (normal) person worry about this event happening each night they go to bed and let it keep them from sleeping? There is a far better chance that, for example, a healthy 16 year old will die of a heart attack during the night. What would a normal person think of anyone who told them to be afraid of this fact?
Physicists KNOW, from verified, physical theory that fits our universe, that there is a possibility that a glass which falls from your hand and smashes on falling to the floor can reassemble itself and jump back into your hand and that's why they are "reticent" (Alan's word) to say it's 100 % impossible for such an event to happen. What thinking and knowledgeable person expects this thing will happen even once while our sun exists, let alone in one human lifetime? What sane person would bet on it or tell their mom that science says it is possible and there was, therefore, a chance her favorite glassware would reassemble itself after you smashed it or your other similar failed experiments that made the pile of broken glass on the kitchen floor?
In PHYSICS there is a LAW of THERMODYNAMICS (called the second law of thermodynamics) that says, in physical experiments, the overall ENTROPY of the universe is always increasing and this fact is so closely tied to the physical experience that time goes forward (not backward, hence, reassembling broken glass as a movie film can do by running it backward). Physial theory, including the second law of thermodynamics, is unable to be 100% certain that time will always go forward, but so far the fact that time always has been seen, experimentally experienced, as going forward seems to make it an ABSOLUTE of our physical universe. For those Bibically well versed, time running backward in the Old Testament so "God's" people could win a certain battle, goes against physics. Physics can explain why people seemed to think such was happening, like physics can explain people seeing mirages which seem very real, without any violation of the second law of thermodynamics happening. This instance is mentioned lest someone worry time in our physical universe ever ran bakward and, therefore have reason to worry about the LHC and so I can make one final attempt to calm those fears of some. If you have EVER exerienced, in our physical universe,TIME REALLY RUNNING BACKWARD (hallucenations don't count as REAL), then you may, if you wish, worry about the LHC making mini black holes that can gobble you up. If you have never experiencd time really running backward, then you can expect, with the same confidence that you have in time going forward, the LHC is safe with respect to mini black holes not gobbling us up. All the physical evidence we can see from the beginning of our physical universe and current events around us show time as running forward (overall entropy increasing, second law of thermodynamics confirmed). Betting on the safety of the LHC with respect to mini black holes not gobbling us up is like betting on time going forward. Betting on the claimed mini-black-hole harm from the LHC is betting that time will go backward. Alan bets with time going forward; so, he could even bet far more than what he did and his admission of not knowing theoretical physics as theoretical physicists do is why his bet is very timid. Ten raised to the 123 power is not excessive by theoretical physics in he case at hand. Theoretical physicists will agree that it takes ten raised to the infinity of the counting numbers power to be 100% certain (have zero probability of not happening) and that's why they can't be 100% certain because physics can't handle infinity and has no need to because our observable physical universe is finite due to the finite speed of light.

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ApesNOTpottery — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 22:06:59 GMT

To all of the "God Fearin'" people here who feel that you need to use this an opportunity to tell everyone that science is BS and we should all go read our bibles and pray, I apologize.
I apologize for the advancements in medicine that the study of EVOLUTIONARY THEORY has given you. I apologize for the technological advancements that the study of the BIG BANG THEORY gave you in order for you to make your posts. Most of all I am sorry that there will most likely be a slew of bad "made for tv" disaster movies in which this experiment will take center stage and scare your kids, so that you'll have to sit down and explain things that you don't comprehend. I'm Sorry.

Whew, now that I've got that off my chest, I'll get back to the stake so you can light it up. But hopefully not before I learn something from the LHC. I wouldn't want to be in hell without something to talk about.

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Carlton, Kamuela, Hawaii — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:28:04 GMT

Tim,
NOWHERE in my paragraphs addressed to you will you find the word "ridiculous". Further, when "ridiculous" was used it was NOT aimed at anyone. If I'm missing your making a joke, please excuse my dullness.
My using the term "positive" mass, when addressing you, was a way to save me time and I should not have employed it. We have positive and negative electrical charges, but we DO NOT have positive and negative gravitational masses; there's just mass, + and - refer to charges not mass and if we had analogous + and - masses the + would repel each other as would the - and we do NOT find masses gravitationally repelling. The gravitational ATTRACTION between masses does not involve any thing like opposite charges attracting. With no electrical charges involved, masses attract.
The antineutron has the same mass as the neutron. Neither have a charge (hence the name neutron, neutral). The antineutron is gravitationally ATTRACTED by the neutron and vice versa (no replusion occurs). Their "spins" are opposite and that's what makes them antiparticles to one another.
The antiparticle to any charged particle DOES have the opposite charge, opposite spin etc.. The antineutrio and the neurino, the antiphoton and the photon, etc. have no electrical charge, but they do have gravitational mass; hence, they ATTRACT one another.
Finally, nothing just said should be construed in any way as even implying that postulating positive and negative masses is ridiculous (even with unlike signed masses repelling). Just like "no question is ridiculous", NO postulation is
ridiculous, that is, deserving of ridicule. Ridicule might be vaid when one continues to hold to postulates that have been shown to be wrong. If one would ridicule a child because the child thinks things show the child that the Sun goes around the Earth , then many early wise men were ridiculous along with most of the human race until Copernicus came along. The human race is not all that much wiser now so that they can get away with calling the ancients ridiculous. Who knows, maybe, if the ancients had all our current knowledge, they might be able to expose some of our current ideas as ridiculous as may similarly be done by those that follow us. We DO NOT have INFINITE knowledge; hence, we are subject to errors.

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Dalen Burr, Grand Cane, Louisiana — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:42:20 GMT

I love to keep up with science and usually find it very interesting, but here is my concern. I don't understand why we would want to see a particle and be able to look at something that exsisted a nano second after the big bang. I mean really, what good is it going to do us. I see it as a waste of a lot of money.... I also think the majority of what NASA does is a waste of money... who cares??? How is it going to make our life better....ITS NOT, it will only satisfy the curiosity of a very few. I fell like the money would be better spent by helping children or looking for a cure for cancer, or helping the people in Africa. Furthermore, there are the risk that this can cause harm and damage to everyone in the world and I am just not willing to take that risk. I don't see how this will help and I see the risk as to great... Jesus Christ people.... think about what you are doing???

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Tracy, Georgia — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 12:54:11 GMT

I can't believe God has not been mentioned more in the context of this experiment. One can debate religion and science all day long, but to me, it comes down to doing the right things with science and moeny. We have people literaly starving to death all over the world and small children dying everyday from abuse, yet we sit in our armchairs debating whether we should be supportive or terrified of this experiment.

Why not put our global resources together to take care of the world we have rather than disect it and continue to push it's boundaries?

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Kathryn Lavelle, Bemidji, MN — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 13:46:03 GMT

I love how the "mainstream", scientific community is assuring us that all will be well...when they in fact don't have the slightest clue as to the effects this Big Bang Machine will cause. It's ALL theory. And as for the comment from Alan Boyle that people believe there is life on other planets, so this just proves that we (society) is just a fearful little child in the dark prone to fantasy...I have this to say. If you are a part of the scietific community and you are still egotistical enough to believe that we are the only intelligent life out there...then number one we're in big trouble if we're the best there is...and two, you are an idiot!

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Judy W., Forest Grove, Oregon — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 17:44:32 GMT

I just don't see the point. There are so many other things that all this money and effort could be going towards.

Like ridding our planet of famine or finding a solution to the energy crisis we face ... or maybe stopping global warming and the melting of our ice packs.

Those are things that would benefit everyone and not just a bunch of scientists trying to make a name for themselves.

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G. R. Redecker Sr. — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:28:25 GMT

I wish what I am about to write could be placed on the front page of every newspaper and e-news service in the world! Alas, since I am not a well respected scientist nor a movie star, that will not occur! Nevertheless, I will write it and hope that some frightened children and/or their parents and grandparents (like myself) will read it and discuss this in a more reasonable manner. I also hope that you and others in the media will stop the fear mongering which is causing such worry in young folks and some adults. I know such stories sell papers and magazine articles, but....let's keep in mind what it is causing!

My generation grew up under the "mushroom cloud" and the "Cold War". In fact, the Atomic Bomb and I were "born" only a few days apart! Fear mongering was at work then as well! We had the "doomsday" scenarios about the test blasts, the "likely" occurance of WWIII, the incessant "bomb drills" in school, etc. Movies had their heyday with it too.
It all served no purpose other than striking fear into the hearts of the populace and selling newspapers and magazines! Nothing ever came of it for a very good reason, which I will relate in a minute.

What many now know, but did NOT KNOW at the time was that at the very first "Trinity Blast" test of an atomic bomb device, scientists thought there was an extremely slight possibility that the blast (the first ever) of an atomic device COULD ignite the eath's atmosphere and destroy all life on earth.
Given even the slight possibility of that, it was good that wartime security prevented the media from having a circus with it! Now, every scientist involved knew the chances of such an occurance were so small as to be virtually non-existant! But, being science, ANY possibility is considered and noted. No one in that professional group thought it was even remotely worth worrying about, and in fact joked about it and took bets on the likelihood of it!

Such is the possibility of the LHC creating a world threatening "black hole", etc! It is so small as to be of virtually NO CONCERN! Like the atomic bomb igniting the atmosphere, the "possibility" only exists because science cannot totally rule it out simply because we don't have enough information to do so. It is a "possibility" only in the sense that it cannot, yet, be proven to be impossible, NOT because there is ANY reason to believe it can happen!

Above all, consider this....scientists today, even more than they could 64 years ago, are able to predict exactly what will occur when certain experiments are done. The experiment, simply confirms the expected results! Such is the nature of science, that rarely do any different results occur, and when the do, it usually is minor and more often than not, a fizzle, rather than a catastrophy! These scientists and physicists who research these things are not daredevils, nor are they gamblers! Everything they do is carefully researched and planned with precision! They would not knowingly nor intentionally do anything which they had even the slightest hint would or could result in damage or loss of life! Sometimes they risk their OWN lives or health for science, but not the world's!

Computer "modeling" is a technology which has arisen since the 1940's atomic program and which permits experimenters to create the "event" in a theoretical, computer engineered experiment and see the outcome, prior to ever beginning the actual experiment. These people are NOT working in the "dark" and there is NO
serious belief that any major danger will arise from this work.

In other words, sleep well tonight, no one is carelessly risking your life!

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Sylvia Commerford — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:48:16 GMT

I am afraid that the scientists are messing with something, that would be better left alone. Remember the Titanic, they said nothing could go wrong with that either. And we all know what happened to the Titanic.

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michael aurand tucson arizona — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:43:43 GMT

what is about the media that makes them think they must cause a panic at every turn? this is science and every science teacher on this planet should be explaining all these possibilities to their students. it's also about space, which, by the way, is our future as a race. anybody with half of a thinking brain knows our time on this little rock is limited at best. it's time to learn about our universe and all of the wonderful things in it. without knowledge, our destiny is the way of the dinosaurs. learn - learn-learn

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John Doe, Seattle, Wash — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:54:51 GMT

To me it seems that deep, down inside, humans secretly desire and revel in catastrophe. Look at our history and culture, every year some 'doomsday' scenario looms. Yeah, I think we secretly want doomsday to happen, just to 'see' what it, will be like! Admit it, we need entertainment!

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John Doe, Seattle, WA — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:59:28 GMT

"Most of all I am sorry that there will most likely be a slew of bad "made for tv" disaster movies in which this experiment will take center stage and scare your kids, so that you'll have to sit down and explain things that you don't comprehend"! LOL! Right on ApesNOTPottery! I wonder how BradAgelina will save the world from the Black Hole/Strangelet! How will be casted as the Antagonist 'Evil' Scientist who starts the LHC - hmmm George Clooney, Jack Black?

Proof that the USA needs better and earlier education. Don't these kids learn about basic physics in the 5th grade? It's one thing for them to know how to read the bible, but let's at least teach them how to critically think for themselves!

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Christopher Driver,Muscadine,Al — Sun, 21 Sep 2008 00:58:20 GMT

Don't try to be GOD. He's going to destroy the earth,so don't try to destroy it sooner.I'm elevin years old.

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anna india new delhi — Sun, 21 Sep 2008 04:59:50 GMT

well,it's really good that humans r tryin 2 achieve much; behind the mysteries of nature but they should remember one thing if something happens nature would soon respond to it..... anyways best of luck for yaa experiment

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Joey Ng, Singapore, Singapore — Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:37:16 GMT

GO FOR IT. Why can't people realize that no matter how they try to stop this, it is inevitable. Human's curiosity and thirst for knowledge can never be satisfied. No matter how much you try to stop it, it will still happen in the end. And I believe that no matter the consequences, the knowledge gained in process will definitely outweigh the consequences. The spin-offs from this experiment will also benefit the human civilization. The much hype about the black hole's probability of being produced and that it may eat up the planet is crazy talk. Risks have to be taken to achieve big, besides, they have tons of theoretical and particle physicists that can assure you that the black hole (if it is produced) will disappear as fast as it appears! The damage (even if there is) will be so minuscule that no significant damage will be done.

Can you imagine that if a small black hole were to appear and never disappear, wouldn't it be highly probable that we would be gone now given the approximate age of the universe? For those who say they love science but are against this project, isn't it even more ironic? If you love science, wouldn't you support this project with all that you can? This experiment will reveal the early particles that existed during the Big Bang, it may prove the existence of the Higgs Boson and it may even disprove the laws of physics! Isn't it exciting?

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Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Sun, 21 Sep 2008 10:10:44 GMT

Carlton,
Yes, I was joking that the random motion aligning to propel an object would be a suitable explanation for the “sock that goes missing” in the dryer.
I read and intended “positive mass” as normal, standard, regular, run of the mill mass, which is how I think you meant it. And I meant “Is positive mass (of antimatter) known or theorized (as opposed to having “negative” mass)? But my question is about vector forces. If you make a table of electrical forces then + repels +, - repels -, + attracts – and – attracts +. Similar for magnetic forces. Likes repel, opposites attract. For normal mass likes attract. You would fill out a force table as attract, attract, attract, attract. All well and good, it may be the case and certainly has the greater consensus. Or perhaps likes attract and opposites repel. 10 years ago there was no experimental evidence either way. Opposites repelling would preserve symmetry, which I’m fond of and we seam to see experimentally. I don’t know of any experimental evidence that suggests that more normal matter is produced than antimatter. I’m also not up to date on experimental evidence. I know CERN succeeded in producing cold antihydrogen but I don’t know if there’s even been an attempt to test it’s reaction with gravity. You say that the neutron and antineutron gravitationally attract each other. Is that per evidence or per the theory you’re comfortable with. That theory based on a lopsided production of matter and antimatter despite every piece of experimental evidence, unless something happened while I wasn’t looking. Do you know that neutrons and antineutrons are gravitationally attractive or might it be some heretofore unknown attractive force caused by antiphasic spin? I have no problem with you believing in only attractive gravity. I am wondering if that is based on anything more than a lack of substantial amounts of antimatter near us. I can see two possible reasons for this, asymmetric production or repulsive gravity. I can see both as possibilities but don’t know either to be true. You’ve given me a well written summation of a theory that supposes asymmetric production of matter and antimatter. I have a problem with that theory because all of the experimental evidence that I know of indicates symmetric production. I’d love to come on board with the bulk of the community. Is there any evidence to help nudge me that way?

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Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Sun, 21 Sep 2008 10:34:39 GMT

Carlton,
I'm not asking you to dig anything up and post the experiments, just have you seen anything. If you happen to have specifics great, but I'm sure you have other things to do than research for me. Just point me in a direction.

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Carlton, Kamuela, Hawaii — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:18:22 GMT

Tim, AND OTHERS PRO and CON LHC
I know that you will agree that Alan's cosmic-log space is not appropriate for teaching physics and I will take your last comment as seeing the need to avoid such.
I will say (I have, thus far, avoided strong desires to teach current theoretical physics and only make comments if something simple can be put forward as possibly helpful to all readers;I hope what follows may do such) all those who take their physical existence seriously (hence have strong personal experimental evidence) then their very existence is manifest PROOF that there was MORE matter than antimatter (antimatter than matter?), an imbalance existed, at the creation moment. Again, if there had been symmetric (exactly equal) amounts, our physical universe could not have come about. Cronin and Val Fitch received the Nobel Prize in 1980 for showing that the C-P (Charge-Parity) reversed universe could not exist, here's another example of physics being able to show a physically IMPOSSIBLE thing.
A CPT (Time) reversed universe can exist (is not impossible), but it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to observe it or communicate with it in any physical way. There may be pockets of antimatter that still exist, even in our galaxy, and the European PAMELA (Payload for Antimatter-Matter Exloration and Light-Nuclei Astropghysics) satellite (launched in 2006) is designed to search for such pockets. If any "pockets" of significant size are found and we can tap them, the WORLD'S energy needs will be met and supply us with enough spaceship power to get to another sun's planet before our Earth is destroyed by our sun in its "death throws". Results from the LHC could make finding such an energy source unnecessary or help us to see how to make it realistic.

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Carlton, Kamuela, Hawaii — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:28:51 GMT

HERE'S MORE CLARITY? etc.
The Cronin and Fitch Nobel prize was, in effect, for showing that if the amount of matter had been exactly equal to the amount of anitmatter at the creation moment, then our physical universe would not esist. Another way, Cronin and Fitch showed that if CP reversal were possible, then our physical universe could not be a physically consistent universe, thereby, preventing our existence. This fact raises the question as to why the imbalance had the size it had. Just like showing that for our physical universe to be physically consistent the maximum speed of light can't be exceeded and raises the question as to why the maximum speed of light has the size it has.
Many renown physicists find these facts along with many others, such as the size of the fine structure constant, the size of the electron's charge, Planck's constant, etc., a strong indication that a great intelligence has to be behind it all to get the values right and prevent inconsistencies that would thwart initiation, let alone any persistence. PERHAPS, that same intelligence knew enough to build in the SAFETY factors we have found, thus far, including making it IMPOSSIBLE for the LHC to make a micro black hole that can engulf a grain of sand let alone all the grains of sand on the Earth or the entire Earth.

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Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:53:35 GMT

Do you know of any experimental evidence that demonstrates asymmetric production of matter and antimatter? Or showing that antimatter is gravitationally attracted to matter? Either one of these would tend to show asymmetry, the second not definitely, the first if it could be shown to happen consistently in matter’s favor in the pronounced absence of the reverse.
As far as a person’s existence being proof, it is only proof that there was more matter than antimatter LOCALLY. There could as easily be at this time an AntiCarlton positing that his own existence is proof that there was more antimatter at creation. Not that I think there’s people parity.
It seams that some relatively simple experimentation would provide, or perhaps has provided, proof of asymmetry that doesn’t presuppose asymmetry. All I’ve seen is the presupposition that antimatter not being around in abundance means it must have essentially all been annihilated and dismissing a repulsive, or even the idea that there are antimatter galaxies where the local concentration of antimatter was just greater than that of matter given same gravity.
There are plenty of things I don’t understand, the nature of gravity, how quarks work, some things about light, the list goes on. None of those things are necessary to understand the answer to the question asked. It starts with “In 1993 an experiment was performed (by such and such) showing that antimatter falls down in an electrically and magnetically neutral environment.” Or, “Asymmetric production was demonstrated by …” This is the more tangible stuff, no teaching involved. It is results, not theory. “No, I don’t know of any” is a perfectly fine answer. Believing in a theory that hasn’t been proven is fine also, I’m not looking for an “Aha, gotcha!” moment. You not having proof for is not the same as me having proof against. I’m not trying some kind of trap. Perhaps, if it hasn’t been demonstrated yet, asymmetry will be shown shortly, or shortly plus two months for repairs. The LHC just might successfully recreate that creation moment. I’m just asking if you know of anything already. I’m asking you because I’m betting that above all others here, you’re the one who most stands to know the answer. I know you have beliefs. I’m not asking about your belief, I’m asking if you have an answer. I’m not even asking you to find an answer. If your answer is “I don’t know of any” it will be taken to mean you don’t happen to have seen anything about such an experiment and will not suppose that you did an exhaustive search and turned up nothing. If you know it just gives me something to look at that I haven’t been able to find myself.

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Carlton, Kamuela, Hawaii — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 22:28:34 GMT

Tim,
No such an experiment has been performed and there is too little to be gained and not enough money in the entire world to make it feasible. Making a few antimatter atoms is very costly. In 2004 CERN used $20 million to make several trillionths of a gram and, at that rate, it would cost about 100 quadrillion and the antimatter machine would have to run continuously for 100 billion years (is universe still around?). Then we will face the problem of the gravitational force between two "piles" being able to be measured. It seems almost as certain that such an experiment will NOT be performed or able to be done as it is that you'll perish from a conspiracy of the air molecules in your bedroom tomorrow night. Again, the existence of our physical universe (including a single person) and its physical consistency is more than ample scientific evidence that there was more matter than antimatter at the very LOCAL singularity of initiation. Performing such an experiment ------ I'm stopping here because I feel where this is going it is not relevant to the LHC, sorry.
Sorry, Alan.

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Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:16:31 GMT

In that kind of time frame whether or not the universe will still be around (?) I certainly won't be. Thanks. I was hoping that it would become feasible as science learned more about the tiny frontier. I guess a decade isn't enough time for that kind of advancement.

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justmeinmt — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 14:45:29 GMT

As one who flunked chemistry, I have no real idea what all this means, if anything. Still, I have one minor concern: The potential to remove this from its original intended use and twist it into something ugly. For historical example, splitting the atom was simply a scientific experiment to prove that we could. Now it has unleashed the most destructive man-made force on earth, capable of wiping out life as we know it. What makes you think this can't be turned into something even worse? The image of weapons potentially developed from this technology is repugnant in the extreme.

The human race has never been inclined to step back off a path once the journey is begun. We don't know how and I doubt are truly capable of learning. Our only viable option, then, is to seriously consider all reasonably possible outcomes and decide if we're willing (or even able) to live with each one. If not, then the second hardest thing we would have to learn to do is to STOP! To stand in the face of discovery and not act is like handing a child an ice cream cone and saying, "Now, don't eat it." But if the alternative is yet another arms race and the finish line makes Hiroshima and Nagasaki look like a birthday party, isn't it time we learned to put the ice cream cone in the garbage and walk away? No promises, no treaties can prevent greed/power-lust/(fill in the blank) from grabbing this up. We go forward with all the understanding our past stupidity has given, knowing full well the consequences that lie ahead, or we walk out of the ice cream shop - hungry but alive.

Most of us don't get to make that choice for ourselves. It's in the hands of others who are slick with their words and powerful in their influence. God help us!

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Bryan W, San Diego, CA — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:20:37 GMT

Its kind of funny to me that these misguided fears, generated mostly by kids, are based on the same kind of reasonings that have impeded scientific progress in the past. (Think Dark Ages) I'm glad society, in general, has been able to move past irrational fears and keep progress rolling.

No practical application? Find the source of mass, master it, and you find a way to master gravity. Space becomes easily accessible. Man reaches the stars. Ok, a bit far fetched, but it could happen! I do wish people would focus more on those kinds of far fetched ideas and less on how their precious boring world is going to end. Smash those particles!

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Alex, Sidney NY — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:41:25 GMT

I agree that we have more important things to worry about on earth, than a microscopic black hole consuming us all... that started from a scientific experiment.
This is dumb...... LET THE SHOW GO ON!!!

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Carlton, Kamuela, Hawaii — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:07:44 GMT

Tim and justmeinmt
Tim, maybe we can find a faster way to make antimatter on Earth (rather than getting it from any antimatter "pockets" in our galaxy found by PAMELA); that's NOT IMPOSSIBLE, but useful sizes of antimatter will not be used to verify Einstein's General Rlativity Gravitation is attractive at such relatively small distances as in a laboratory where the experiment might be performed; General Relativity allows masses to repel at universe size distances). Further, to experimentally check your idea requires electrically NEUTRAL particles (any elecrical forces would overwhelm any gravitational ones attempting to be experienced). CERN and other facilities have spent their time and money producing antihydrogen atoms and the "pockets" are being looked for by PAMELA to see if antihydrogen exists there. Hydrogen and antihydrogen atoms are neutral, but they are ionized so that they can be held in a magnetic "bottle" and away from matter to prevent annihilation, at least for a breif time during experiments with them. Neutral particles, useful for making your desired check (which would NOT be feasible due to the electrical forces with charges around) CAN NOT be so contained for such an experiment. One may postulate that one may find that gravity is not attractive inside the chromosphere of the Sun, for example, but with all the evidence of its attraction (way back to Newton and earlier) scientists would have no reason to spend time and money on checking it in exotic places where it hasn't been checked, especially when there is no evidence to show that it might be different there. Sorry, but keep questions in mind because "we" know where the know-it-alls are headed. It runs counter to the true meaning of the power of infinity to be perverse, like allowing questions to come up that will never be answered.
Justmeinmt, your life might be much happier if you would look, at least now and then, at some of the great, good things atom smashing etc. have done. There will, most likely, always be those who will use things for bad rather than for good, but the history and make up of our universe has the good prevailing (winning out eventually). Our universe has what some call free will (some don't think free will exists). I leave it to you to decide if you are a robot (something without free will) or not. If INFINITY is the source of our universe, our universe can't be robotic. INFINITY precludes the stupidity of a robotic universe. INFINITY also precludes bad prevailing because such would run counter to INFINITY'S self-consistency. If it's not self-consistent, it does not meet the standards of a true infinity. With free will in a universe bad things can happen; but, if the source is infinite, good things will prevail and the bad will die away. Our physical universe is a testament to good prevailing (isn't it odd that so many evolutionists don't see this fact of their own field? for example, it took a lot of prevailing good to evolve an eye) and those well experienced in the spiritual universe say this fact is confirmed there also. If you have only experienced the failures of finite love, remember that infinite love can't fail without being self-contradictory (inconsistent) and that is IMPOSSIBLE for the truly infinite. Infinite love is taking care of you ALWAYS, especially when you doubt. Sooooo, keep up healthy doubting and know that the infinite understands. If you, having so much finite about you (but not totally finite or you would not be able to know the infinite), have some understanding, how can the truly infinite be without understanding, love, etc.?
It took the infinite to make our unvierse infinitely interesting and with good prevailing. Without good prevailing, we would not exist. Justmeinmt, relax, good will prevail.

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Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:52:10 GMT

Carlton,
And more problems than what you listed. I thought maybe someone had come up with solutions. I also thought that since I had looked at this years ago we might have made some headway on antimatter production. Didn't realize how rare it still is.
I don't think there are that many questions that will never be answered. Just a bunch we're too ignorant to answer now. Far less ignorant than we used to be and gaining ground all the time, though.

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Jane Doe — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 17:11:56 GMT

I think regaurdless if Y2K, Armageddon, Black Hole talks is for the faint of hearts, I think the scientist should leave well enough alone. What are they going to gain by this but putting fear in millions across the world and possibly knowing how the Earth came to be ? This is the stupidest thing they could have done.

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Chirantan — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 07:36:02 GMT

If big bangs produces mass as presumed then earth mass will invrease. Earth can sift its orbi and go into new orbit closer to Sun. This shift can cause severe changes on earth. Sea water will get moved and cover land.....and so many thins one can imagine? What you say. Let us have big bang and face it. The life is dull otherwise. Will have new life - if such thing miraculus happens. Please do it fast. I am really eager to see that.

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Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:35:23 GMT

Chirantan,
This won't produce a Big Bang. It will, hopefully, dis-integrate matter into the components found soon after the Big Bang. It's the difference between growing trees and taking apart an old house to get lumber.

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rick wheatley louisville ky — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:53:34 GMT

you have to think, black holes in space which are as big as planets, feed in an area with no mass(space). Earth has an infintessamal amount of mass that would crush the black holes in a milisecond. I've also heard theories of the accelerator blowing up? wtf this thing is underground, surrounded by water, encased in metal, and enclosed by a magnetic barrier.
thats all.

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Keysha,Luverne,Al — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:18:48 GMT

Okay, I see nothing wrong w/ scientist exploring and discovering the unknown, however this is quit disturbing. i am a single mother of a six year old girl who wants to become a teacher some day. I do want to take the chance of her not for coming her dream because of nosy scientist that have nothing else but destroy the world,cause face it, it will happen you are humans running this thing and "mistakes"happen everyday all day. I think these scientist are too nosy for their own good. There are some things better left unknown and how the earth and human existence was formed is one of them. I am a God believer to the fullest and this bugs me that they question his existence, God is the creator of this universe amongst other things. For these nosy ppl who want to dig to the earths core and re-create what they so call the "Big Bang" and for the ppl who agree w/ them I'm not only praying for you but I'm praying for the failure that is to come from this. I hope someone does something to stop this from actually continuing on. I am willing to sign a petition and whatever else i need to do. I mean come on with the slim chances that only means not perfect and humans make mistakes all the time for example mistakes already been made w/ electrical connections w/ this thing. I'm truly disgusted w/ all of this. This is a waist of time,money and this is selfishness. I agree w/ someone on here saying take it to outer space somewhere. I cant believe how little they're making this, not too many ppl know about this because it wasn't a worldwide public thing and a lot of ppl do not watch whats going on in the world and i bet they figured the less ppl know the better chance they have on creating this thing and too bad for what really matters to others. I totally disagree w/ the whole thing.

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James Bejjani, Sydney, New South Wales — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:15:53 GMT

hi Alan. why would you want to do this type of experiment? i believe science has gone too far. i'm a 15 year old boy and i'm going to be in year 10. please Alan i don't want the earth to be destroyed. the world is an amazing place. this is the only world in the whole entire universe. life is good. i want my future to be good. i've heared this at school from my mates on the 10th of September. i was shocked about this situation. i love this world. it's a beautiful place. i'm a Christian Marinite. i don't belive that the Big Bang created the universe. how do we know that we can look back and see how the universe was made? please Alan i don't want to die. you can only live once on this earth. thats it. this is the only planet that can survive life. this is the best planet in the universe. i'm really scared. everyone on this planet is at risk now. 6.7 billion people on earth are at risk.

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YapiTec — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:24:15 GMT

We are naturally afraid of what we don't understand, and this tendency is just exasperated by the uncertain times, the aformentioned culture of fear, and often a feeling of helplessness in the face of these issues.

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moshe — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:26:43 GMT

The big bang star motion in space theories are misguided.
all the objects are circling, similar to electrons moving in circular track around the nucleus of the atom, just like the earth around then sun.
in this way, all objects in space are moving around the nucleus\center of the universe.
but because of the vast distances in the universe, within every light year we move only in a small portion of the circle around the center of the universe and we think that we are moving straight forward.
this paradigm is similar to past paradigms, when it was believed the earth was flat, due to the fact only a small portion of the circle was visible to the eye.
It is also possible that all objects in the universe detached from a single nucleus and accelerated relatively according to the their mass and the rotation speed of the nucleus.
Moshe millman
Israel

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SC Duluth MN — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:58:06 GMT

AFTER reading the articles this will be the next greatest of mankind. Like how computers where so big to being small and more powerful now.Imagine 17 miles now to say spaceships powered by a ring going around for unlimited power.. get er done

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Ron Horne, LaGrange, GA — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:04:29 GMT

"Don't Feed the Black Holes"

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marcel dagenais ,alberta ,canada. — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 18:57:58 GMT

who cares what happens?if there is a god then why worry?and if there is no god and everything vanishes then why worry?if there is a god then everything will be just fine for those who believe in one and if there is no god and we vanish out of existance then what is the big deal?if there is no go why do you wanna live any longer anyway? once you died u dont know nothing if u even ever lived or what will be of our children, but if there is a god then trust me man cannot do nothing more than what he is being allowed to do by that god. so stop worry and let the machine start so we can see what is next ;)

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Anthony Wrifford — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 10:07:10 GMT

Do it. Go ahead. This was probably meant to be.

Do it. I've been thinking about the end of the world sine I was 10 years old, and I wanted it to happen.

Go ahead, make my day.

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Chris, New York — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:37:58 GMT

Not to be mean or cold hearted, but the people who have concerns of producing earth killing blackholes, earthquakes, death, death, death just makes me laugh. If the melodramatic media mongols had got their facts right, there are numerous studies supporting the safety of the LHC and if they went deeper about black holes, they would know that micro black holes pose no threat as then it delves into quantum mechanics. Also its highly likely that any "black hole' produced will have a strong enough gravitational pull to even affect a paper clip. I miss Walter Cronkite, he just said the news, plain and straight, no exaggerated bullcrap. DO SOME FREAKIN RESEARCH PEOPLE, THAT'S WHY THERE ARE THINGS CALLED SEARCH ENGINES and SCIENTIFIC STUDIES

Media is a propagandist tool for fear.

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Ian MacLeod — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 07:12:24 GMT

I don't know if they're implying that the cosmos is intelligent in some way, or if the physical reaction to some subatomic particle would somehow be an "unraveling" of spacetime, or if someone in some future then may send a 34,000 A.D. hand grenade back to here now and zap the thing. I mean, you'd think that if there was going to be a problem with something like this so early in our technological development, these Godders would suggest something like looking around for a neon nebula out towards Sigma Draconis or somewhere that read: "About the Hadron collider? DON'T PLUG THE DAMNED THING IN!" You know? You'd think the universe would come with a set of instructions or cautions or at least a tag. I more or less felt that when my son was born too. They ought to come with operating instructions or an owner's manual I could put into his hands when he developed something like intelligence and tell him, "Here you go, kid. It's your headache now!"

It's all really rather poorly organized. We get these great, fun bodies, for instance, that are so close to what they could be, and instead they're easily poisoned (ask - or better yet, examine any American for chemical body burden). They age much too quickly; about the time we're just getting things really figured out and prioritized, game's over, outta the pool - NOW!. Youth isn't the only thing wasted on the young, either: sex, health, beautiful places, time, knowledge - just about everything is wasted on the young, but by the time they realize it, they're no longer young and it's all gone or going. Really, with just a few little improvements, these bodies could be really great! All of that is one reason that I decline to convert to Christianity. I mean, what does it say about a God who would create these bodies with smell, taste, hormones and all, plunk them down where with a bit of determination, discipline, greed and luck, just about everything that body (and therefore anyone occupying same) could want is available, and then say, "NOW - DON'T MESS WITH ANYTHING!" ? Nope; I'll pass.

Oh yeah - the collider. Seriously now, with the rate at which science is advancing - though admittedly, some these people more like sidle off at an angle and then zig-zag than advance - my son's grandson is probably going to own a collider 1,000 times as powerful as the new toy the Swedish are just now starting up, and he'll carry it around in his pocket for two weeks and then forget about it. His mother will find it in the dirty clothes hamper, or run it through the wash cycle by accident and be PO'ed that she has to throw out her favorite pair of panties because they're suddenly glow-in-the-dark. Really. Most cell phones or micro-notebooks or whatnots are so much more powerful than the computers that existed when I was young, like UNIVAC or ENIAC (I know kids; at least one sounds like a vacuum cleaner; it sounded better then, believe me) which took up several floors of a building or more and weighed tons, it's like the difference between a Dell dual core and an abacus (look it up). People were afraid at the time that those oversized calculators (and those computers were analog then - figure that one out!) would take over the world somehow and maybe decide to destroy humanity. This kind of thing happens every time someone builds something radically new, or something that ordinarily educated people don't understand. It was said when I was about nine or ten that only a handful of people in the world actually understood quantum physics, and that three or four of those were probably lying. Now Richard Bach plays with it as a hobby. Well, so do I sometimes, sort of.

I guess the upshot of this is, like the man said, "Don't panic!" There's too much else happening right now that's worth worrying about, you know? Besides, if it actually does destroy the world somehow, for humans it would most likely be like an ant living on top of an atom bomb at a test site. So relax: you'll most likely never even notice!

Ian MacLeod

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Ian MacLeod — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 03:08:40 GMT

A black hole that size would have such a short half-life it wouldn't even make one full circuit before it evaporated.

Ian

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free — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:05:43 GMT

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RalphPierre, Lacombe, La — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:08:58 GMT

It appears that sheeple from all walks of life have fallen to yet another scare. Black holes will now eat the planet. Some feared falling off the edge of the earth when Columbus sailed. He sailed anyway. They feared electricity would scatter people's brains throughout the countryside. Tesla experimented anyway. They feared atomic energy would evaporate the atmosphere. We bombed Japan anyway.

Now the new fears are carbon, global warming, and black holes. Find the answers anyway. The cessation of science means we stop wondering what's on the other side of the mountain, and the rotting of civilization. Be bold, and advance. Climb that next mountain, even if it is the size of a subatomic particle.

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Gavin Taggart, Eagan, Minnesota — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:11:06 GMT

some people need to remember the Manhattan Project back in WW2. There were fears that the fission reaction would set off a chain reaction with the oxygen molecules in the atmosphere, essentially igniting the atmosphere of earth. A fairly doomsday scenario if you ask me. Of course, the majority of the evidence said it wouldnt reach the energies needed for such a reaction, and in the end they went for it. In doing so, they saved an estimated 1 million American lives and an untold amount of Japanese by avoiding a mainland invasion of Japan.

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Eric — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:18:56 GMT

Just do it the world will end in 2012

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Daniel Primrose — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:58:10 GMT

THE SCARIEST THING ABOUT THE HADRON COLLIDER IS THE MONUMENTAL WASTE OF MONEY FOR SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT PRODUCE ANY USEABLE RESULTS FOR THE MASS POPULACE.
IT IS JUST FOR THE PANDERING OF A FEW PHYSICISTS WHO COULD SPEND THE MONEY AND EFFORTS BETTER ON HMAN KIND AND THE UPKEEP OF OUR PLANET RATHER THAN GOING AFTER SOMETHING THAT IS BEYOND MANS GRASP.