Star cluster's clocks corrected

Rich — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 15:11:14 GMT

So what is it, a globular cluster or an open cluster? The caption of the photo says one thing, the text of the story another.

Star cluster's clocks corrected

S.B. Stein E.B. NJ — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:29:45 GMT

Can the Hubble gather enough information for scientists to tell what fuel these stars are using (hydrogen, helium, or something heavier)? That could indicate how much fuel was spend and how much to go.

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:04:20 GMT

The HST returns yet another marvel of the cosmos. It's hard to imagine that these left over cores of burned out sun-like stars radiate their residual heat for billions of years. http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/
releases/2008/25/image/a/format/web_print/

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Alan Boyle — Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:52:19 GMT

Rich, it's an open cluster... I don't know where that reference to the globular cluster came from, and I've fixed the caption. Maybe that cropped up because NGC 6791 is unusually old for an open cluster and has some of the characteristics of a globular cluster.... Thanks for pointing out that discrepancy.

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Focus Inward Atlanta GA — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 00:53:03 GMT

Scientific observations exclude intelligence beyond space and time. I say no more lest I be crucified.

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Focus Inward Atlanta GA — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 02:21:52 GMT

Financial support for Hubble, Spitzer, Chandra, and advanced scientific means of measuring this universe have also revealed dark matter and energy that defy being understood. Plenty of support is given the human to learn and apply themselves to support these advanced measurements concerning physical objects.
When will support be given to humans as a tool to use by supporting an inward focus that may be the only means to reveal the intelligence that governs the physical realm and would seem to provide answers to help support advanced questions that continue to be uncovered. Science continues to reveal questions and perhaps answers require support for tools that only can be found within the human form focused inward?
Is it possible to include intelligence that is not limited to space and time birth and decay that is revealed so much more clearly than was known even 100 years ago? The financial costs supporting humans to focus inwardly are minimal and seem to yield results that far exceed expectations and with the potential to truly help and advance the human race. I am thankful to feel free to express in a country that has allowed this to happen and marvel at cosmic views that continue to amaze and reveal a grand view, yet I am also pursuing focus and attention and desires and virtually all conceptual internalized knowledge inwardly and discovering great value and perhaps even providing a method to explain dark matter and energy.
Einstein mentioned intelligence coming from outside his mind and look what this meant to science. We are truly living in a period of time that far exceeds the human knowledge 2,000 years ago where even the greatest minds could even imagine possible. I see advanced scientists opened and receptive in order to help advance understanding and myself growing by absorbing and reflecting in a blend of both worlds.

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 03:19:23 GMT

A theater of stars and galaxies. Like static players on some stage, the HST brings them here. You have to be forever influenced by the spectacle. Plato had it right with the allegory of the cave. The HST and humanities technology allows us to see beyond and ponder a grand reality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Bloggerrich — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:12:42 GMT

All this just proves what I've been saying all along...especially about "dark matter?". We know very little and if you think scientists can calculate any of this with even little accuracy, you are dreaming.

It may take us thousands of years to get "good" at understanding the universe. But I like seeing articles like this as it proves that we really need to keep improving the technologies, physics, math, etc. to get a better understanding. We read articles about calculated mass of stars and galaxies and even the universe and then come up with some crazy ideas to account for the "missing data" (dark energy and dark matter).

My belief which is based on trying to be as REAL as possible is that the universe is a never ending, infinite and ageless realm where an infinite number of galaxies exist. All are in constant change. Infinite worlds have been created and destroyed as they always will be.

Oh...and just because scientists think these stars are close, doesn't mean they are. I'm thinking maybe we can get some satellites set up throughout our solar system (10 or 20 spread out over millions of miles), then maybe we can triangulate and combine images to create a more accurate location of other stars and galaxies...create a better map so to speak.

Just an idea.

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Robbie Withey — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:16:29 GMT

so what happens to a white dwarf once it has finally cooled down? does it simply dissapate or become a giant ball of iron or some other element? has one ever been observed?

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Jason H. LaLiime — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:49:00 GMT

White dwarfs become smurfs.

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Thomas Ashby, Calgary — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 18:25:05 GMT

Robbie Withey:

The white dwarf is believed to be made of carbon. When our sun becomes a red giant then shrinks into a white dwarf in some 5 billion years, the material making it up will be carbon. It has been said that the end result could be diamond. Imagine that, a diamond the size of the earth.

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Brian, Magna, Utah — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:43:56 GMT

White dwarfs take billions of years to cool down to just a ball of compacted oxygen, carbon, and nitrogen, with a little hydrogen and helium thrown in for taste.

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 06:02:18 GMT

Bloggerrich,
We already do the triangulation with an orbiting earth. By making observations along the major axis of our orbit we can get the greatest parallax and at least get an idea of which stars are closest and which are really far away. That only gives so much accuracy, though, even if the observations are done from orbit. There are a whole mess of other, very creative, methods to determine distance on a cosmic scale. Since they don't all agree with one another you have to question their accuracy, but we've got time to hone this new science (art). It's not like the question is "Can I make it on half a tank or should I fill up?" Not yet, anyway.

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 06:29:04 GMT

Focus,
The biggest problem with science in general is interpretation of data. The conditions are what they are. Different teams look at the things that are and develop data. Then they interperet that data. Their conclusions of the exact same thing are often grossly different. Restated, the universe is objective but the study of the universe is subjective. The saving grace of the sciences is peer review. Somebody else can duplicate the experiment or make the observation, verify the data and review the correctness of the conclusion. Focusing Inward has all the bad and leaves out all the good. Even your own interpretation of how you felt yesterday is subject to how you feel today. At best the end result is that you are able to feel good about yourself. That's often at worst as well. I don't know how many idiots I've had to endure who weren't concerned about doing a good job, only feeling good about the job they did. Or didn't care to be good parents, only that someone would tell them they're doing a good job. Only by focusing outward, at the objective, can you even know what to change to become better. Making that change may lead to a look in, but if in is all you do then you've got nothing but a good feeling, if that.
For illustration:
Inward Focus allows you to really appreciate the boat you're driving, relish the speed and maneuverability and thoroughly enjoy your time on the lake without ever noticing that you ruined the fishing for 40 other people, interrupted someone's ski run, almost ran down a few jet skiers and scared small children. You see that you've got a really great boat, the rest of the world sees a self-centered guy in a really great boat. I'm a bit of a cynic, btw, but that's based on observation. If you feel offended then please, decide I'm wrong. Life's a little rosier when gazed upon through red lenses.

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Focus Inward, Atlanta GA — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:42:04 GMT

I add if possible true concerns for any human to consider the REAL as only what can be observed and ignore possibly the REAL being what is the intelligence not subject to space and time limits and only a focus inward by a human individual to at least be receptive to receive intelligence that is now labeled UNKNOWN and considered therefore UNREAL.
So, maybe get REAL is the intelligence behind all matter and adds meaning to Einstein's comment it came from outside his mind, and how much could be known by focus on a receptive mind not blinded by the outer view, no matter how eloquently expressed. Both approaches are needed and yet what is REAL to me is the unseen and the seen merely a dependent effect.
Rather than the REAL view which appears to support destruction and consumption of nature, perhaps we need a bit more understanding of nature being a partner that is all driven by the same intelligence.
Perhaps the human has tools to apply this intelligence and use one fish to feed the multitude and now have the wisdom to support rather than crucify and this planet is self destructing and needs some approaches pretty fast. Soon there will not be any fish to multiply going at the current rate that in cosmic time measurement, is merely a blip at best.
No more desire to explain REAL and UNREAL and just keep the inward focus as a REAL possibility and not be so wrapped up in science itself which now limits itself to what can be seen and objectively tested and measured. Labeling so strongly the REAL as a view of the universe expanding infinately is a given and it assumes the unknown intelligence as UNREAL and not worth the time to even consider.

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Chuck Sweet — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:45:43 GMT

As a note, I picked up that World Wide Telescope project from Micfosoft, and Wow, Lots of fun looking at the physical universe, a little short on descriptions of what you are looking at, but sometimes that is important in itself as you end up starting with fewer preconcieved notions.
One thing that I find my mind coming back to time and time again is the thought that Galaxies appear to be part of some structures magnificently bigger than easily imagined, and the Micro-Wave Background scans also show structure, lage planar with easily defined edges, way beyond what is seeable in Visible light waves, but it seems to me that Galaxies would hold to some fractal equivalence to Atoms in our scale: such that a Galaxy may represent a quark or lepton, just at vastly different scales. But, since we know that there are fractal equivalences within our Universe, is it possible that my idea has merit?? Scale Plank Space up to Galaxy size, with the appropriate scalar change for the passage of time, and it still would be impossible for things to exceed the speed of light, even at this scale.
One of the things that pushed me towards this was the decidedly structured Galaxy, where stars dont appear in some places, but do in others, and how by going thru star formation, life of star, death of star back to dust, and then coalescing back into stars, although in different location, orbitally, could, to an observer looking at this from a majorly larger scale, it may appear that the Stars (Electrons??) disappear from one place, and then, lo and behold, appear in a different energy level (Orbit) although, instead of operating as just a single star, it tends to be groups of stars acting as "electron" but it Does tend to show movement from one energy level to the next, and unless you could detect that Dust at Subatomic levels, then you would think that there was some "Tunneling" going on...like we tend to do today with the Quantum Tunneling....maybe we have not taken seriously enough the idea that As it is Above, so shall it be Below.....

Star cluster's clocks corrected

TheFallibleFiend, LORTON, VA — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 12:56:27 GMT

Astronomers are so full of themselves - like they know less than a pimple on God's behind (PBUI). Six billion year old clusters? That's off by a factor of, like, you know, ONLY A MILLION!

They need to make all these perfessers teach from the KJV, with augmentation from "Think on These Things" and "Snowboarding to Nirvana."

Astronomy? Baah!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GENXQJu45ds

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Tim Rommes, Washington, UT — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:18:38 GMT

TheFallibleFiend,
Or maybe you should learn how to read your KJV. Properly read there is no glaring discrepency between Bible and science. BTW, do you want to be a disciple of Christ? Check-out Luke 14:26 with your awesome Bible reading skills. And why did God take the kingship from Saul? Saul didn't sin enough to keep God happy. Those are direct reads from the Bible, and they're wrong interpretations. Just like your read and interpretation of "day."

Hardcore Christians who don't know how to read their Bible? Baah!

Star cluster's clocks corrected

TheFallibleFiend, LORTON, VA — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:46:34 GMT

It is a bizarre state of affairs when reality is indistinguishable from parody. Put another way,
"Any sufficiently bizarre reality is indistinguishable from parody."

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Lonny Holaway — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:56:01 GMT

I am reminded of the old adage... (Truth is stranger than Fiction!)

Star cluster's clocks corrected

Dying_to_know, Albany, Oregon — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 04:17:17 GMT

I'm chuckling at all the verbage here. So many different opinions. It's refreshing. Then a narrow-minded person enters their opinion, waving the KJV around while spouting words which just show how short-sighted they are. Well Fallible, get with the program. Retire the KJV and get a NLT. You won't waste time trying to understand a language that is about 400 years OLD and that no one alive speaks.
To go onward: Our universe is an amazing place. And that has got to be the understatement of the millenium. Our universe is far more wonderous, awesome, incredible, mind-boggling than we can imagine and I have no doubt that there are places, things and events still unknown to us yet to be discovered. What a time to live in! For instance, the Dark Flow article last September

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26857495/

is just about....as awesome as it gets! I love it! What a wonder. And then we ponder other things, like.....what happened BEFORE the Big Bang? Wait a minute. That question doesn't even make sense. If space and time didn't exist until after the Big Bang, then the word "before" has no meaning. Chuckle! Woo Hoo!
It just shows that the universe is a never-ending mystery. When we figure something out we discover another mystery. It may never stop surprising us.
Personally, I think the universe is by design. Call the maker of universes God. The universe makes no real sense to me if it came to be by accident. If our universe is the result of a random event, then what is our purpose? To figure it out? Populate the universe? That would take quite some time.
To me the universe only makes sense if it was created. That implies a creator and that implies that we humans have a purpose. Let's call the creator God. Imagine this: God starts the universe up, the Big Bang, and God programmed this universe to evolve the way it has with humans appearing way down the line so as to wonder about it all and try to figure it out. Eventually we do figure it out and find God smiling at us. God has a sense of humor, no doubt. God had children and is watching us grow up, on a time-scale we can only speculate at. I can hardly wait!
I have no doubt that God exists. Words have power and God spoke this universe into being. Why not?
God could have created unlimited numbers of other universes, outside our observable universe and so distant that the light from these other universes hasn't arrived yet so that we could observe them. I wonder what our universe would look like if you were outside of it. Whoa! We would see nothing at all until the first stars turned on and those photons reached us. Who knows? Food for thought. I believe in God, and I've come to believe in Jesus Christ. Why Jesus? Well, if you read what Jesus said and how He said it, saying what he said with such power and authority and you realize that His words are so incredibly......full of amazing truth, well then! I've said enough. No doubt most of you will read these words of mine and think I'm just another nutcase. That's okay. My viewpoint may only be appreciated by a few. There's lots of us to go around! Woo Hoo!
And Mr. Alan Boyle: Keep on keepin' on! I look forward to your webpage daily. Thank you! God Bless!

Star cluster's clocks corrected

joe ash mission b.c — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 05:02:48 GMT

i am doing a science projest and i was wondeering if u could send me a bunch of info on
galaxies
star clusters
quasars
pilsars
nebulas and black holes
it would be a big help

peace>