The world inside a bacterium

steve smyth — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 22:53:08 GMT

Re ecoli in the space station...
was that before or after the flusher got fixed?

The world inside a bacterium

D. A. Green Auburn, Wash — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:42:49 GMT

Hello !
Stop putting germs on to petri dishes smeared whith things enavble them to grow and watching them grow.
How about putting the germs onto petri dishes spread with things which will help them to die - and giving everyone an injuction about that doomed germ ?
D.A. Green
nichevoo@hotmail.com

The world inside a bacterium

Eric, Marshall, IL — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:07:49 GMT

"The assumption is that one genetic mutation provided a relatively poor method for digesting citrate, and that a later mutation provided the full recipe for success. Zimmer said E. coli's chances of evolving into a citrate-eater were on the order of 1 in a trillion - and yet, it happened."

Just as predicted based on probability analysis given the extremely large populations and short generation times for bacterium. But this 2-mutation change is the upper limit, since a 3-mutation change would then be a million times more improbable and be beyond the reach of chance. This fits exactly with what Dr. Behe pointed out in The Edge of Evolution. By contrast larger creatures with longer generation times could never achieve even 2 particular coordinated mutations. This is why bacterium such as E. Coli are so genetically static despite their massive mutational resources, and larger critters even more so.

It's time to stop claiming the earth is flat because your lawn is flat, which is the methodological equivalent of these claims that because simple mutations happen, all the complexity of life must be due to mutation. Living cells are hypertechnological structures of incredible complexity, and ascribing it all to chance+mutation just makes "scientists" the ignorant religious nuts of the 21st century.

The world inside a bacterium

Debbie Yoder-Himes — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:31:50 GMT

This article is a bit misleading as it makes it seem like E. coli is a very versatile bacteria such that is would ever be found on another planet. In fact, E. coli has evolved in the human gut for so long that it is relatively wimpy compared to other bacteria (i.e. Pseudomonas or Bacillus species) that can live in a great array of environments. While we do know the most about this particular species, it probably won't be allow us to answer many of the questions above.

I also think that Lenski's work is groundbreaking and has great implications for how we understand evolution and evolutionary processes.

The world inside a bacterium

Bill B — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 17:40:15 GMT

What if E. coli was sent to Earth as a catalist to jump start life on the planet. Some kind of alien created bacteria that is programmed to evolve, making the best choices to adapt to its environment. Kind of like artificial inteligence in Nano technology. What if!!!!

The world inside a bacterium

S.B. Stein E.B. NJ — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:22:18 GMT

This makes me think of the engineered moss among other things that were talked about in Red Mars. Is it possible to have these engineered bacterium to change some of the material of Mars to be less salty? Could these small things be made to dig holes in the ground and speed decomposition to reduce the size of landfills?

The world inside a bacterium

Matt, Burlington, MA — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:28:26 GMT

Eric, you are sadly misinformed and very poor at extrapolation. If a 3 gene mutation is a million times less likely, and a 2 gene mutation occured in less than 20 years, in a tiny population (compared to what exists in the world), I should think that 100 million years ought to suffice. Yes, modern cells are hypertechnological. They are far, far beyond anything our current technology can accomplish. They are incredibly complex. If you haven't noticed, increasing complexity is one of the general themes of the Universe. Give up your sad lonely fears for your own pathetic blip of a life and marvel in the majesty of the Universe that gave rise to you. Believe me, the Universe will accomplish more than you could ever imagine, much less achieve. I'd also like to point out that you demonstrate a bigoted, narrow, and generalized viewpoint, ignorantly lumping all scientists together. You seem altogether unaware of the developments in evolutionary theory after Charles Darwin. Scientists build knowledge upon other secure knowledge, and continually challenge the knowledge already accepted. Ignorant religious nuts fear changing their views to the point of violence. They do not build knowledge, they spew forth the same ideas again and again and insist that you accept them without evidence. Scientists provide evidence and their analysis, and the works that they base their work upon, never asking you to accept in blind faith but to test it yourself. The ignorant religious nuts will always be just that, ignorant, religious, and nuts. Guilt and fear are the main mechanisms that most major religions use to motivate. Has a scientist ever tried to guilt-trip you into accepting their hypothesis? Have they ever threatened you with the destruction of your soul should you refuse to obey the Law of Conservation of Momentum?

Debbie, I'm a bit conflicted with your post as well. E.Coli lives in a very broad environment, not just in human guts. They live in the guts of many, many animals, and are very stable in the environment. It has to be, otherwise it can't get into your guts. we don't get E. Coli from our mothers, our digestive tracts are never attached. But I'm definitely not an expert on microbiology, I'd be insterested in reading about Pseudomonas and the various Bacilli. Can you suggest somewhere to read about them? As far as the questions, E. Coli is already helping us learn if new life can be created from scratch, in a sense - they are building up genetic material from custom-built genes and inserting those genes into E. Coli. I think it could also answer the question about whether life can survive space or not, though some of the really tiny bacteria are probably better candidates. The rest of the questions I can't really see E. Coli providing us the answers to.

The world inside a bacterium

Angry Buddha — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:32:58 GMT

So Eric is claiming God made everything because his brain cannot fathom the triviality of probabilities when measured across enormous stretches of time?

The world inside a bacterium

T Collier, Davis, CA — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:52:25 GMT

Eric, the mutations enabling citrate metabolism didn't occur simultaneously. There is nothing terribly improbable about successive beneficial mutations accumulating.

The world inside a bacterium

edobrinen — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:09:49 GMT

Oh those silly creationists always thinking that evolution=chance. Evolution is a trial and error process whereby living things constantly alter their strategies for growing and surviving.
Chance may be a trigger but the outcome is very in tune with reality.

The world inside a bacterium

T Collier, Davis, CA — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:12:33 GMT

The citrate metabolism 'discovery' by Lenski's group was actually an accident. In studying how the populations of bacteria evolve (optimize) to growing on different 'food' sources (such as glucose vs maltose), they use a 'no growth' media totally lacking any of the various 'foods' as a control. The no-growth media does contain citrate, but since everyone knows that E. coli can't grow on citrate, that was no problem... until a year or two ago when some of the populations started to grow on it ;)

That caused some difficulty for the studies people were doing, since their controls were screwed up. Annoying uppity bacteria.

The world inside a bacterium

Science is my religion, Miami, FL — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 23:29:53 GMT

Eric. Hail to the Creationist Museum. We are the only country in the world with such an idiotic institution. I have always argued that 10% of the US population keeps us on the cutting edge and maintains our place as the technology leaders in the world. The other 90% are idiots.

The world inside a bacterium

Anthony L. Milano, Southington, Connecticut — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:34:14 GMT

Let's hear a loud cheer for E-coli without which, we would all be Jelly Fish (maybe).

The world inside a bacterium

densell — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 23:13:22 GMT

as usual things of this nature take a religious tone.
Where did all this STUFF come from to make all this STUFF from???? POOF it happened????? Either way GOD (existent or not) or happen chance, I am sure this GOD (existent or not) would be more interested in how you lived your life and treated others then the MULTITUDE of mutations we can find in a particular species. ME personally find this all facinating. Nay sayers, Believers, agnostics and Creationists HARK THEE.......it is most likely we weil NEVER really know. So at least praise those who PURSUE some sort of answer to the big question. It is so easy to sit back and condemn those who TRY...........