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Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

Check out Boyle's biography or send a message to Cosmic Log via cosmiclog@msnbc.com.



Lessons from Lucy

Posted: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:44 PM by Alan Boyle

It’s been 35 years since anthropologist Don Johanson found the fossilized skeleton of Lucy, the world’s best-known ancestor of modern humans, but Johanson says his 3.2 million-year-old “girlfriend” from Ethiopia still has lessons to teach.

"I never thought, when I found her on that November day, that she would turn out to be such an icon in human evolution," Johanson said last week during a visit to the "Lucy's Legacy" exhibit at Seattle's Pacific Science Center.

Lucy has become an icon, of course. In part, that's because Johanson and his colleagues recovered an incredible 40 percent of the complete skeleton, which is laid out in Seattle like a gem collection in a jewel case. The biggest reason, however, is that Lucy came from an era when our ancestors were just becoming human (as Johanson explains on this marvelous Web site).

"Lucy has gone a long way in introducing people not just to the idea of evolutionary change, but particularly to the fact that humans have evolved," he said.


Courtesy of Donald Johanson
Anthropologist Donald Johanson holds a
cast of the skull of Lucy, one of the world's
best-known hominid fossils.

Today, the 65-year-old Johanson still returns regularly to Ethiopia, balancing field work with his duties as director of Arizona State University's Institute of Human Origins. His latest book, coincidentally called "Lucy's Legacy" as well, is due to come out next month. And as if that's not enough to keep him occupied, he's giving a series of talks this month - not only to reflect on Lucy's legacy, but also to celebrate Charles Darwin's 200th birthday.

I caught up with Johanson just as he arrived at Lucy's jewel case. "I came to see my oldest girlfriend," he told a museum staffer. "She doesn't get out much."

The conversation soon turned to the Darwin anniversary, and the British naturalist's prescient observation that Africa would turn out to be the cradle of humanity. Johanson took a look around the exhibit space and said, "Would this blow his mind to come in and see something like this?" That provided the perfect opening for our Q&A. Here's an edited transcript:

Cosmic Log: What do you think? Would it blow Darwin's mind?

Johanson: Well, first of all, there are a couple of things that would trickle through his mind immediately. One of them is the fact that Lucy is sort of an amalgam: long arms, small brain, but yet bipedal. ... One of the things that Darwin stressed in his model of human evolution was the acquisition of upright walking. We still think that may be the first distinguishing feature that separated us from a common ancestor with the chimps. He would be gratified to see that.

But he would be mostly gratified when he read that Lucy was 3.2 million years old - because that was one of the things that Darwin struggled with, almost more than anything. We all face it today: We need more time, we need more time. For example, you're taking an exam as an undergraduate, and it's time to turn in the exam. But Darwin really meant it: He needed time, and that really bugged him. The world had to be old for all this to have happened for him. So, how gratified would he be that his predictions turned out to be correct?

Q: I understand that Lucy went through a CT scan, and there’s now a virtual Lucy.

A: There is.

Q: Do you feel as if Lucy has taught us everything that she could teach, or are there more things that she has yet to reveal?

A: I think there’s a lot more that she has to reveal. It’s going to be interesting to see if detailed scans of her teeth come up with something about maturation rate – the rate at which enamel is laid down – and give us an idea of whether she died at 11, 12, 13 or 14. And we just don’t know what new techniques will come along that will allow us to look at internal structure. That will tell us more about what kinds of forces were exerted on these bones.


Crown Publishing Group
"Lucy's Legacy," by Donald
Johanson and Kate Wong, traces
the quest for human origins.

Lucy will always be a seriously important comparative specimen for scholars from around the world to compare their discoveries to. ... One of the things that isn’t mentioned a lot is that we now have close to 400 specimens of Lucy’s species. We’ve got everything. We’ve got a hyoid bone now, from “Lucy’s child,” the Dakika baby. We’ve got complete sets of hand bones, we’ve got complete sets of finger bones, we’ve got upper limbs, lower limbs, we’ve got a pelvis, we’ve got a male skull, a female skull.

At Hadar itself, where Lucy was discovered, we have about 500,000 years of time, and we have about 300 specimens in that sequence. So we’re beginning to look at some of the things that Darwin would have been interested in, in terms of tempo. There’s a rate and a type of evolutionary change over time, and we’re just beginning to examine that. ...

I feel that Lucy’s species, Australopithecus afarensis, is the reference collection for everyone who makes a discovery of what they think is a new species of human ancestor. ... That's something that has not been stressed enough. Everyone thinks, oh my gosh, there’s Lucy. But if you think of the Taung baby that launched all this in 1925, that’s just one specimen. It's a wonderful specimen, of course, and it vindicated Darwin because that was the first hominid fossil found in Africa. But the Hadar collection is unique because it does sample every region of the body.

Q: Do you feel as if the framework for understanding human evolution is pretty well set? Are there certain mysteries that you’re looking to solve, or do you think we know what that “bush” of human evolution looks like?

A: I think we have the broad outlines of human evolution. We know that things changed from more apelike to less apelike and more humanlike. But what we’d like to know in detail is, for example, what was the effect of climate change at specific times? What was so unique about this incredible combination of biological evolution combined with cultural evolution that unleashed this incredibly creative species, Homo sapiens? We want to know where that happened, under what conditions that happened.

We think that every major innovation along the way happened in Africa. Why was it Africa? We don’t have a very complete answer to that, and we’d like to know why Africa was the crucible. Why was it the place where we first stood up? Why was it the place where we first separated from the apes? Why was it the first place where tools were made? Why was it the place where brains expanded? Why was it the first place where depending on a meat diet happened? Why was it the place where we emerged as Homo sapiens?

That’s the mystery. I think that origins in general – origins of the universe, origins of the solar system, origins of humans – all have this mystery associated with them.

Whenever a reporter like you comes along and asks, "Well, what do you expect to find this year?" I always say, "The unexpected." When I was a graduate student, did I think that tools went back 2.6 million years? No. Did anybody even fantasize about the hobbits? Homo florensiensis, which is not Homo ... why would you put it in Homo? I predict we’ll see it put into a new genus.

Q: Do you really think Flores Man would go into a genus by itself?

A: It could go in a genus by itself, but you know, it might even go into Australopithecus.

I think that while we have the broad outlines, the areas that bug us the most have to do with the common ancestor. What was it, 6 million to 10 million years ago, that prompted our ancestors to leave the trees? And isn’t it interesting that Darwin seems to have gotten that right?

Q: Why do you think he got that right?

A: He looked at a number of things. He looked at chimp and gorilla skeletons, and chimps in zoos in England, along with Thomas Henry Huxley. And he said, boy, their skeletons look like ours. They have the same number of teeth. Chimps, in fact, look a lot like us. And if you go back in time ... clearly you get more apelike, more chimpanzeelike. Darwin said, if those are our closest relatives, if they all look alike, then that’s the place where they all evolved. So he predicted, on the basis of those similarities, that Africa would be the place.

Huxley had written about that in 1863. Then, in 1871, Darwin really nailed it when he wrote "The Descent of Man." He said, what’s so distinctive about us? Big brains. Chimps don’t have big brains. That’s a real distinction. But the other thing he saw that humans had was upright walking. And he felt what was so important about that was that it freed our hands. We didn’t have to use our hands for locomotion, so we could use them to make and use tools. He got that part right. He thought it all happened together. He got that wrong.

Q: So the follow-up question is, why Africa?

A: I think it’s going to be a combination of ecological opportunity, climatic change and the great richness and diversity of Africa. The highest concentration of Miocene apes – species that were more than 10 million years old – was in Africa. It was out of that pool that natural selection could work. But what prompted those first ancestors to leave the trees and begin to walk on the ground? I don’t know.

Q: Do you think that human evolution is continuing today? Where are we going?

A: It’s more difficult to tell where we’re going, because no one can predict the future. Certainly every time a sperm and an egg combine, there’s evolutionary change. It’s a very microevolutionary change, a gradual small step. But as long as humans around the world are continuing to interbreed with one another, we will probably pretty much stay as we are.

The only exception would be if perhaps someday we are successful in space exploration, and send a mission far out into space. You go out for 200,000 years, and when you come back, you've been gone for 400,000 years. There's genetic recombination, drift, mutation. You might not be able to interbreed with the very people who sent you into space.

Certainly evolution is continuing. It’s something that happens every day, just like gravity. But I don’t think we’re going to end up with enormous heads.

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Comments

I guess it's kind of comforting to hear that we might stay pretty much as we are even over the eons.  Not sure why... I have no reason to dislike us eventually changing but I guess I wonder why would we discounting severe environmental differences.  Sharks I think haven't changed much so I really don't think change is a given especially when our tech can adapt for us.  Um... Maybe spots like on Dax from DS9??  Wouldn't mind those at all :)

I was hoping I could interject something perhaps even as a partial question for Native Americans believe that we can find things like fossils by simply following our gut feelings.  You know "to look under that rock, instead of this one, or just to keep pressing on.  Things almost call to each other sometimes and I was wondering if any of this sort of thing played a part in Don's discovery of Lucy?  It's a trust in one's intuition.  Natives believe that as simple as it sounds, our intuition ties us to the greater whole that interconnects us and all things.  Just a basic thought... I guess I'm hoping that people like archaeologists can find more and more, if they simply know to try and follow this inner gut feeling :)!  
Studying "Cell Biology" I can guarantee you that evolution is going on.  Sometimes it is a dead end and something that shouldn't exist,like children with their hearts outside the body. The mutation rate is about 1:10^-9 cells.  Some mutations serve no purpose, but look pretty like eye colors or thinning hair. Some mutation are successful and permit man to excell over other mutations like black skin color for the tropics.
The cool thing about this sort of science is that we can visualize it happening. Surely there is a lot of relevant science that is more abstract, but nothing substitutes the ability to paint a picture in your mind of these hominids living their lives in an ancient land, and try to compare that picture to the fossils and how they were found.
This sort of science really captures the imagination in a different way.
An excellent article Alan!  Just love reading about our evolutionary path from the distant past to now.  It's a shame we'll never find all of the missing pieces to be able to trace the exact path of evolution but it is so gratifying that archaeologists have uncovered so much that we now have definitive proof of evolution.  I can't wait to see what they unearth next that will further advance the reality of evolution and verfies Darwin.

Hip Hip Hurray for Darwin!
I don't understand why they claim they "recovered an incredible 40 percent of the complete skeleton" of Lucy. Look at the Lucy bones on wiki and compare with a human skeleton on wiki. Then judge for yourself if you think it is 40% complete. I think Lucy is being hyped. She has been around for 35 years but the marketing people are suddenly selling her big time on Darwin's anniversary.
Evolution is a bunch of garbage.  God created the universe and everything in it.

Go watch Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed by Ben Stein.  Great movie that exposes these lying scientists for the wackos they are.
Carl,
Why can't Evolution be the manner in which God created living things?  Why does God and Evolution have to be mutually exclusive ideas?

Also, why would all the anthropologists of the world be involved in a conspiracy to lie to the public and discount God?  That seems to be what you are saying is going on.

I think everyone should have the right to their own beliefs, but I have trouble with people who make wild accusations about others ("these lying scientists") with no defined basis in fact.
Because our environment has changed and we don't have the natural enemies that have been with us throughout our existence, has evolution of humans become stagnant?  Weaker or different humans can all live to a ripe age... survival of the fittest just doesn't apply anymore.  

Our evolution from here on may be determined by the advancement of our immune systems during worldwide pandemics.  

Or through genetic engineering?  Just because we have a distaste for altering ourselves today doesn't mean that we will always fear genetic engineering... sounds kind of science fiction, but might that be the next phase of human evolution?
Go do some research on the movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed and you'll see the deceipt practiced behind the scenes to get that movie out and the disingenuous portrayal of some of the "expelled" scientists.

I, am a Christian, but I was extremely embarrased when I read about the tactics used by the film's producers to achieve their goal and the misleading information it contained.
I have always found "Lucy" to be a facinating stretch of science. The result of someone want so badly to believe something or get ahead they will say or do anything.

If you really study the Lucy "find" you will discover that Lucy was found at multiple layers in the ground. If digging at different layers is truely an accepted practice I am sure I can come up with a dog that has a human head and viola... the missing link.
I am a Christian and a science student for over 15 years.  Science is the pursuance of facts through repeatable experiements that can be reproduced with the same result every time.  Evolution is a theory - not proven fact.  The skeletal remains of "Lucy" just prove the fact that she/it existed.  Friends in the science realm, you have taken a notion and run amuck with it.  If you believe in true science, then there cannot be a true belief in evolution.  It is not proven by any real scientific standard.  

To look at a cell under the microscope and see its function and beauty shows that there is no doubt that life is not by mere chance or evolved. The odds of chemical combinations coming together to produce life are mind boggling. Now lets add to those odds that the chemical combinations would "evolve" to make all the animals, reptiles, bugs, and of course, humans.   The fact that scientists would put more faith in a gamble of odds like that rather than the God of nature, creator of all the universe is even more mind boggling.

Lucy is not my ancestor. God is my father.      
Carl, do you go through the entire day covering your ears, yelling "LALALALALALALA", with your eyes squeezed shut?
We'll be extremely lucky to 'remain as we are'.  Once Europeans invented ships capable of circumnavigating the planet, we as a species hit the cuttoff in human evolutionary development.  That's because we immediately began interbreeding with whatever people we encountered, irrespective of size, shape, color, or belief.  That's not to say it was done willingly.  It just was.  And I'll apply the term 'superior' to the european explorers because they were the ones who reached across oceans with the most technologically advanced inventions of their day - those marvelous sailing ships.  I submit that whatever beneficial differences existed in their genes, the likelihood was/is that the explorers had more of them than the other way around (consider that the europeans took 40K years to colonize northern Europe, a goodly portion of which was during the last ice age, when conditions were ripe for eliminating inferiors).  Interbreeding resulted, therefore, in offspring that were equal to or less than their parents, a situation that is perpetuated even toady (humans aren't smarter than we were then, just better educated, creationists not included).  More importantly, the majority of factors that had culled the human species throughout its development have and are now being eliminated and/or subverted.  Our stunning technological cababilities are now used to maintain vast numbers of individuals who not long ago would not have lived to puberty.  Most folks think that's a wonderful thing.  I'm not so sure.  Before technology, you really did have to be better/smarter than the other guy to survive.  Today your  mother simply needs to make it to the hospital.  Are humans evolving?  Yeah, sort of.  With the way we're applying our technological prowess, today we're devolving.
I've never quite understood why a chimpanzee skeleton is subjected to such hype. One would think that if such "missing links" existed, then they would be plentiful in the fossil record- after all they should be close to us in time.
-W.H. M.S.EE(Cons.Biology), B.S.Geology., B.S.C.E.T.
The idea of a "Missing Link" is a quaint 19th century idea.  There is no single missing link of any species.  The fossil record is a beautiful example of a continuum of change not only for pre-human to human but for many species and is solid (pun intended).  Its tangable, measurable and predictable based on current knowledge.  Lucy "fits" nicely into this continuum and adds to the knowledge base that has been built up to know.
And...here are two of my favorite quotes
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.” - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.” ~Philip K. Dick
Dont be baited into going off track (Lucy and her legacy) by the haters above...ignor them
Humans may have seen their evolution stall.  Another catastrophic event, either our own making or natural, may provide the catalyst for further changes. We are, unfortunately, about due.

As to Science and faith...When I study a painting I can learn much about the artist: the period in which she worked, the pigments available, the style of stroke and brush and so forth. This is the work of science.  

I happen to believe there is a mind behind all this.  Those who like Darwin have examined the artistry of the universe are simply describing what they see. Their insights can provide more information about the artisan.  My only objection is when the scientist makes statements about "ultimate things." Which they cannot examine.  

The same applies to those who use Biblical poetry and parable to make scientific claims.  The issue is "not is the Bible true," but "is our grasp of what the Bible is about adequate."  Had Darwin lived with a church that opened its eyes to the possiblity that God is bigger than their exegesis he may have turned out to be a man of greater faith.  

As a student of Scripture, a country pastor (as Darwin once thought to be) and a fairly conservative follower of Christ, I, too, celebrate the birthday of Darwin and stand in awe as I look at the world around us.  Thank God for insightful minds like Charles Darwin!
 
The truth is always the truth!  Despite our small vision.

It's always fun to check out the crackpot's web-pages. Might I suggest clicking on William Hunt's (M.S.EE(Cons.Biology), B.S.Geology., B.S.C.E.T.) name (in blue above) to see his Gung-Ho Tribulation/Rapture fiction and anti-global-warming tract.
"Best described as a cross between Hal Lindsey and Tom Clancy."
As for the degrees, I'm sure the B.S. is real!
Some of the less-educated fairy-tale believers here should learn the definition of scientific theory before spouting your 'it's just a theory' nonsense.

Evolution is both fact and theory---fact in that we have observable evidence of it (the most readily-accessible being the rise of drug-resistant bacteria as a result antibiotic use) and theory in that the hypothesis fits all the observable evidence with no contradictions. Layman often confuse scientific theory with scientific hypothesis.

For other 'mere theories' scientists have the gall to portray as facts and force on your God-fearing children, see plate tectonics, gravity, and the germ theory of disease.
KBrown, you and many others make the mistake of confusing scientific theory with the common usage of the word.  Scientific theory is not "an idea" or "a hunch" -- those belong to the realm of hypothesis, which is what you test in order to develop a scientific theory.  Gravity is a scientific theory, and yet none of us go spinning off into space.  
"Evolution is a bunch of garbage.  God created the universe and everything in it."

In one grand swoop, a relatively short time ago, with everything pretty much as we see it now? Or with that which we call the Big Bang?

Too much evidence points to an Earth that's very old, in a Universe that's much older, with a great many things having changed along the way.

You can believe that...or you can believe God created it to *look* that way.

I refuse to accept such a capricious deity. Isn't deception what one would expect of the Devil, instead?

It's not a game, not a test of fundamentalist faith, the world is what it seems. It has changed (and will continue to change) over a long period of time...and, within that thin slice of time humans have existed in it, so have we.

If there's a God, take His Universe at face value.
It's too bad they can't retrieve intact cell chromosomes from such fossils. The apes have 24 pairs of chromosomes while humans have 23. The discovery that human chromosome 2 is actually a fusion of the ape variety is direct genetic evidence that humans are connected to ancestral apes. Chromosome 2 displays centromere and telomere characteristics that only point to a fusion event or mutation having occured.  

It would be something to actually see if Lucy type fossils have 23 or 24 pairs of chromosomes.

I'm not an educated person in the area of evolution, but if we evolved from the apes, chimpanzee's, ect. why do they (apes, chimpanzee's, gorllias, ect.)still exist?  shouldn't they have vanished from the face of the earth when they became humans?  

[ALAN ADDS: First of all, the theory says present-day apes and present-day humans descended from a common ancestor that didn't necessarily look like either present-day species. Secondly, the creation of new species does not require the disappearance of old species. For example, I and a lot of other Americans are descended from Irish and German folks, and yet how can the Irish and the Germans yet exist? Of course, the ancestors I share with my Irish kin have disappeared, but their Irish descendants are still doing quite well.]

apparently K Brown in his 'study' of science didn't bother to learn what theory actually means.. thus using the fundie fall back notion of theory.. not fact. Gravity is a theory.. electricity is a theory and are facts. A theory is a group of facts used to explain a natural phenomena
Evolution continues, but it dominant mechanisms are different.  There are at least 3 mechanisms for evolution: natural selection, sexual selection, and genetic drift.  Our societies have altered the environments and created new environments, changing the selection criteria.

Of course Lucy was not a chimpanzee.  Evolution has nothing to do with religion.  It neither confirms nor disproves the existence of God.  The rejection of evolution requires a comic book understanding of science and evolution.  Typically, creationists spread rumors and the rest of them who are not capable of distinguishing urban legend from fact just keep spreading those rumors.
K Brown: Science is not the pursuit of facts.  It is the combining of facts (data/measurables) into a coherent narrative or explanation, or theory.  I'm amazed that a "student of science" would try to imply that a theory is just a hypothesis.  Also, science, and evolution, are not about belief---that's religion.  Evolution has been proven; it is the only narrative that can explain all the given data and can even make predictions that allow for the creation of new antibiotics.

As for probability theory and evolution, your statement is utterly false.  It assumes that evolution is a purely random sequence of events.  It isn't.  It is controlled by natural selection.

I put my faith in God for my morals and ethics.  But I'll continues to science to understand the universe around us.  I would think God would want no less of me.
Ben Stein is a class A idiot. Ignore him.
William,

[...]  First, Lucy is taxonomically NOT a chimp. She has the hips and femurs more closely resembling a human. Those hips and femurs are shaped in a way that would indicate bipedality.

Secondly, fossils are rare. They aren't as easy to make as the plaster of paris molds we made in elementary school. The likelihood of any fossil existing is dependent on many factors including burial method, material, climate and absence of scavengers. YET, there are still over 4,000 known hominid fossils. I'd say that's plentiful.

Tell me, is your back yard filled with fossils? Can you dig one up and show it to me? My guess is, probably not. Its not because nothing has ever died in your back yard in the past but rather that fossils are extremely rare to begin with.

I would suggest you make your old professors proud and actually do some research and math. Don't toss out an explanation just because it doesn't fit YOUR interpretation of Scripture.
To K. Brown - Gravity is only a theory, and less understood than evolution, as is relativity.  We would ignore both at our peril, as we would evolution.  Semi-alive things such as virus and small living things like bacteria can evolve at such a rate as to be harmless now and fatal to us in a generation.  Don't call this "micro-evolution" and deny that over billions of years this mechanism can't create great changes in multicellular organisms  -unless you're going to argue the young earth theory (good luck with that!)  You might do better than place small, human-imagined limits on what God can do.  
"I'm not an educated person in the area of evolution, but if we evolved from the apes, chimpanzee's, ect. why do they (apes, chimpanzee's, gorllias, ect.)still exist?  shouldn't they have vanished from the face of the earth when they became humans?"


Evolution isn't linear, as the notion of a missing 'link' (as if in a chain) implies, it branches, more like a tree. A branch doesn't necessairily mean the limb from which it diverged disappeared....

Frank and Alan, ...sorta think what we are running into is actually not such a bad trait.  In some ways people who deny science are just not open, but I'm sure thoughout our evolution, such "dedication" to an ideal has proved invaluable.  Religion is perfectly natural from a humanitarian perspective especially when you have no tools to show otherwise.  I also think there is a basis for spirituality which is probably why it's lasted as long as it has.  Even the new String-net liquid theory from MIT suggests a reality far different than what we might expect.  All told, I've learned that we should try not to preach just as much as we don't wish to be preached to.  I think there are "in-roads" to getting people to be open to more ideas...  Often as with global warming, we often aren't bumping heads with the bible, but people who have a genuine seemingly ambiguous concept they just can't quite get their head around and often times just the simplicity of proof allows them to say Aw....  Humans coming from apes or bacteria isn't very obvious but I'd almost bet that if presented at say a museum in a step by step process, many--if not most-- people would be able to get their head around it.  I myself always had a terrible time envisioning how "fish" might find a way to be on land and it wasn't until I heard about how salt water fish slowly made their way up into the rivers and creeks where the shallow water favored legs instead of fins that I was FINALLY able to envision this for myself.  It truly is beautiful to learn about these historic first steps and I've sometimes said that even if humanity were to die out tomorrow, the path to learning what got us here and finally knowing would have made the trip worth it!  
The evidence supporting Lucy's  authenticity isvery well documented and her geometry certainly suggests  humanoid, if  not  human stature. This, taken  together  with  the  single  chromosome  difference in  the  haploid,(viz germ-cell), condition  of  man  and  chimpanzee also  the  fused  appearance  of  chromosome#2 in  man would  suggest  that  man  and  chimpanzee  are  closely  related.I am  in  fact  a  firm  beleiver  in  the  existence  of  a creative  intelligence  and personality who  whether  acting  individually, or  with  others  of  its  kind (recall  the  staement  in  Genesis:" Let  us  create  man  in  our  image.."), brought  about  a  change  in selected samples of the  early  hominids of  a  chimpanzee-like  character  to create  a new  family  member,namely  man. Reading  between  the  lines of  the  factual bits  of  evidence  for  evolution which  appear  to  be impeccable and    several  biblical statement clues I find the suggestion of subsequent sexual union  between the  transformed chimpazoids,(viz the  Lucy  type)living in  the  land  of Nod and  a  descendant(viz Cain)  of  a  genetically  cloned human (viz Mother Eve).The  clearly  sexual  overtones  of  the  "Apple  Story" might  even  suggest  that  the  cloned  mother  Eve  participated  in  consensual  sex  with one  of  the transformed  hominids who acting  under  the  influence  of a fallen  spiritual  being convinced  her  to  experiment  with  him (viz  bite  the  apple).Their  son  Cain  most  naturally  would  have  been  in  a  different  mental  state  to  that  of  his brother  Abel who  was a  genuine  father  Adam  and  Mother  Eve  offspring.The  manner  in  which  Cain  railed  upon  Abel  suggests  an  extraordinary  psychological  antipathy  for  one  sibling  to  have  for  another hence  hinting  at the  possibility of dual  paternity.Possibly  a  blending  of  Creation(intervention by  a superhuman  personality  and  intelligence in modifying the  genomes  of  evolving  terrestrial  life-forms) and  Evolution( the evidence  based upon findings  of  fossilized  material or  information in  the  layers  of  the  EARTH arguing  for  transformations in  life  forms under  the  influence  of  processess taking  place  naturally on  the  Earth).The  ineluctable  appeal  of  this  hybrid  approach  in  our  thinking  as  scientists or  simply  intelligent  humans  seeking  to  reconcile  a  handwritten  account with information  "written  in  Nature", as  it  were,might  surely  have  appealed  to  Minister  Darwin were  he  alive  in  our  present  time  period.
Scientific research recently had a 'D'oh' moment when it came to human evolution. Rather than human evolution stagnating ,as was generally accepted, it appears that human evolution is actually accelerating. The 'D'oh' moment was when it was realized that we should have known this all along. Darwin himself pointed out that tiny variations are the engine of evolution and with an excess of 6 billion humans on planet Earth, there is obviously a lot of variety.
I had an awesome feeling and a connection with the past when I viewed Lucy in a Houston museum in 2007. One has to be in a state of denial to view Lucy and consider other fossil and molecular evidence and continue to reject to the reality that humans have evolved.
i believe in creation by God. it all happened in one God day. man and woman were given the breath of life on the sixth day like the bible says.
If evolution is so real then why are there still chimpanzees on earth and they haven't evolved yet? God created the Earth get over evolution it's not real!
"And God said" and bang! The universe came into being. Yes, creatures evolve, but i cannot understand why people are so willing to believe we just happened by some incredibly stroke of luck not to mention all the other life. The Bible is consistant with the necessary order things would need to be created in for life to exist. How could the writers have known that so long ago? Have you read the book? Too many people discount it without reading it for themselves!
Most of this is written by cromagnons who wouldn't recognize thought if it were on fire.  The spelling and grammar are prehistoric. Sentence structure is nonexistent.  And then there's the redundancy - worldwide pandemic -

Religion has no place in the discussion and no place, really, in life except for the time you are actually in a church.  Religion has done more harm than good and don't get me started

Dr. Johanson is too brilliant for any of you to comprehend.  I worked with him for a short time.  There is no point in attempting to drive home that fact because you can't argue with dull minds

I find him and the subject I majored in, anthropology, to be endlessly fascinating
I am a graduate student in mechanical engineering and have a strong respect for science as a tool for explaining our world.  Looking back through the last few hundred years, it is interesting to observe how our perceptions of nature and its workings have evolved (i.e. Newtonian mechanics to Einsteinian physics; basic algebra to multivariate calculus; Galileo's refractor to the Hubble telescope; the Bohr model of the atom to Quantum theory and String theory).  Through history, human beings have devised theories that appeared to satisfactorily explain the phenomena which (s)he was physically capable of observing at that time.  As technology developed, our capability of observation also increased, which in turn revealed the shortcomings of our prevailing scientific theories.  It is therefore apparent that technological development and scientific development go hand in hand in a circular process, one advancing the other.  It is important to note however that this process has not stopped since we appeared on the planet, and furthermore will not stop as long as we exist.  Our innate curiosity, as well as our desire to explain our surroundings and ourselves, will drive us to even greater discoveries in the future.

My point is that there is no scientific theory/model which can truly be said to be "complete."  We may believe that a model is complete, and certainly it may appear to be so, but it only takes one contradiction to disprove a model.  When this occurs we must either revise the model or else begin again with a completely new model.  Take Newton's "Laws" of Motion for instance: they only hold at very low velocities.  How low is "very low," you might ask?  Einstein answered that question with his theories of relativity.  It turns out that Newtonian physics only hold when velocities are "relatively low" compared to the speed of light.

Now taking my argument back to creationism vs. evolution, we cannot truthfully say that either concept is complete.  If we take the hard creationist stance in which God created everything as we know it in a literal 6-days (as laid out in the first chapter of Genesis), there remains much to be explained as to the physical, chemical, and biological phenomena that took place during this time.  These are not given in the Bible, mainly because scientific understanding had not advanced sufficiently at the time during which those passages of the Bible were written.  However that is not to discredit the account of creationism.  It is merely to point out that the story is extremely general (from a scientific point of view) and is incomplete in itself.  On the other hand, we may take the hard evolutionist view in which the universe emerged from a point in time and space in an enormous catastrophic explosion of energy and matter.  This view asserts that all living matter evolved slowly over billions of years from a single-celled organism.  This intricate organism was supposedly formed from just the right amounts of energy and matter combining in a precisely controlled manner, resulting in life.  However, this theory also leaves much to be desired.  It fails to explain the physical, chemical, and biological mechanics of both the Big Bang event and the evolutionary process as a whole.  The theory merely states that these occurred without telling how.

I am not trying here to prove or disprove one theory or another; I am trying to hammer home the point that the creationist and evolutionist descriptions are both incomplete.  I personally do not believe that we will ever prove/disprove one or the other.  It seems to me that both theories require faith and a decision to either believe or disbelieve.  And yet we continue to attack each other for our personal beliefs.  Do we not all have the privilege and right to choose what we will or will not believe?

One last thing, I forgot to mention that not only am I a mechanical engineer - I am also a Christian and have chosen to accept the teachings of creationism.  After all, it is my right to choose.
First of all the "big bang" was not an explosion it was more like an unfolding. Its pretty naive to think we are the only ones that exist. The universe is bigger than we can even fathom...
I wish Humans told the truth, that 100 million yrs ago we crashed landed on this water planet you humans call dirt,there are 8 races living today, 4 races have died out about 10,000BC and lucy is how we made new humans with DNA and Geno and a little cloning,so today there are only 5 out of a billion of us left on this dirt world the rest where formed from genetic cloning and DNA altering so get over it human you are a Hybrd.
Elizabeth, arrogance & condecension [...] is insulting at best, and also shows a strong degree of ignorance in itself as well. Who are you to say that religion has no place in life?

I've worked in the medical field for almost 40 years now. I've studied/worked in the forensics, legal, and criminal justice field for the last 10 years. I've a significant interest in biblical anthropology. I'm also a Christian.

 I'm not some ignoramus with low intellect, or "dull" so, please stop looking down your nose & insulting people of faith - which happens to be about 10 billion in the world today. Your statements make about as much sense as those who spout that NO evolution exists.

 For almost 40 years, I've seen the unexplained miracles that have happened. I've also seen what aamazing changes can be brought about in people's lives through faith. They can't, and shouldn't, be denied, just as evolution shouldn't be denied either. Extremists on both sides of this argument are wrong.


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