ABOUT COSMIC LOG

Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

Check out Boyle's biography or send a message to Cosmic Log via cosmiclog@msnbc.com.



To hide a hunter

Posted: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:35 PM by Alan Boyle


W.L. Gore & Associates
This picture approximates a deer's-eye view of a bow hunter wearing Optifade camouflage. Click on the image to see how the scene would look to human eyes.

To hide yourself from the deer you're hunting, do you want to dress like a tree - or become invisible? Researchers are trying to take the second approach, with camouflage clothing that takes advantage of the fact that animals don't see the world the way humans do.

The Optifade camouflage pattern, created by W.L. Gore & Associates (the makers of Gore-Tex fabric), represents a break from the colored leaf patterns you see on stereotypical camo clothing. In fact, it looks a lot like the mostly monochromatic blocks-and-dots now used on military duds. That's no mistake: One of the advisers on the Optifade project was retired Lt. Col. Tim O'Neill, whom some regard as the father of modern-day military camouflage.

The design includes a big, blocky "macro pattern" that is meant to make the human form hard to spot when it's on the move (just as a tiger's stripes break up its outline). There's also a smaller-scale "micro pattern" that helps hunters blend into their environment when they're waiting to ambush a deer (similar to the function served by a leopard's spots).

But that's not all: The fabric's colors and patterns were fine-tuned to take advantage of the particular way deer and other hoofed animals (known as ungulates) process visual information. Jay Neitz, an animal vision scientist at the Medical College of Wisconsin, was called in to lend his expertise.

One big difference between deer and humans has to do with the placement of the eyes on the head. Our maximum field of view is about 180 degrees (with 140 degrees for binocular vision), while deer can take in nearly 280 degrees at a time - thanks to the fact that their eyes face in opposite directions rather than both facing forward.

That wider field makes it easier for the animals to get a low-resolution, all-around look at potential predators, but there's a trade-off: They can't process fine-scale detail as easily as we can. So clothing designed to mimic a deer's forest surroundings in detail doesn't work as well as you might think, Neitz told me.

"We could put all sorts of fine, beautifully detailed leaves in a camouflage pattern," he said. "The deer's vision system doesn't pick up all that fine detail. It just picks up the coarse view of a human form, and he'll say, 'Hey, there's a guy standing by that tree over there.'"


W.L. Gore & Associates
The Optifade pattern uses macro and micro patterns in muted colors.

The Optifade pattern is specifically designed to fool a deer's lower-resolution eye, Neitz said. And the color scheme does away with the usual forest green and brown. Instead, it emphasizes blue, black, white and gray - because those colors, plus yellow, are the only ones that a deer sees.

The eyes of a deer have the receptors for blue and yellow, but not for red, Neitz explained. As far as they're concerned, red is just another shade of gray.

From a scientific standpoint, perhaps the most interesting question is how scientists try to figure out what a deer sees. Neitz and his colleagues conduct experiments with animals who are trained to walk toward a particular type of pattern - for example, a card with black and white stripes on it vs. a gray card. The researchers modify the patterns by using different colors and widths of stripes, and eventually figure out what the animals can see and what they miss.

Deer aren't nearly as amenable to these sorts of tests as, say, lab rats. The experiments have to be conducted outdoors, under challenging conditions. "Those are really hard experiments to do," Neitz said. But once researchers figured out the way the deer vision system worked, they could create image-processing software that fuzz and fade a picture to duplicate a deer's vision.

Human subjects were then recruited to look at the resulting deer-cam video and pick out the camouflage patterns that maximized the wearer's invisibility. This video clip from W.L. Gore & Associates about the "Science of Nothing" provides plenty of examples.

A segment from W.L. Gore & Associates' "The Science of Nothing" explains
how deer-vision studies figured in the creation of Optifade camouflage.

For more examples, check out the deer's-eye view of a hunter in the trees vs. the human-eye view - or a picture of a hunter in an open field, as seen in human vision and deer vision.

The "Science of Nothing" video makes it look as if competing camo patterns would be much more easily seen by deer. But in this case, I suppose the true proof of the pudding is in the shooting - and I'm not aware of any scientific findings relating to Optifade's efficacy in the wild. During my youth in Iowa, I would occasionally go out hunting with my father - and I can tell you that deer-distracting camouflage wouldn't have made a bit of difference.


Does all this put you in the mood to learn more about different levels of visual perception? For an example that doesn't involve killing other living things, check out this Web page, which ties together visual spatial frequencies, Abraham Lincoln in the rough and Salvador Dali's wife in the nude.

Correction for 11:30 a.m. Dec. 11: I mistakenly typed "W.R. Gore & Associates" instead of W.L. Gore & Associates in an earlier version of this post. My deepest apologies to Mr. Gore ... and all his associates.

Correction for 8:20 p.m. Dec. 11: A sharp-eyed reader (who also happens to be an eye doctor) spotted my reference to the human field of view and upgraded it from 120 to 180 degrees. After a double-check, I've corrected the reference.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

People post negative thoughts about hunting. Most I have noticed are from big citys or states that have little hunting in them. However before knocking hunters so bad, try driving by a stock yard. Where your future dinner is standing on manure piles 20 feet high. the smell nausiates you. Vegatarians yes in a lot of ways animals are defensless. but imagine a plant if you could here them. unable to move as that big combine comes at them metal wheeels turning and ripping them out of the ground  peeeling them alive/ yes plants are living creatures to. how is this any better than hunting for your own food that is actually healthier than store bought food. Wild meat is leaner less fat lower cholesterol and free from man made growth hormones and anti biotics. as for small genitilia at least we have the gonads to get out and deal with mother nature instead of hiding behind tour walls wherre people prey on people.. Thank God for the great outdoors and no city slickers.
Lorna, San Francisco, CA
[...]
What no one has mentioned is the absolute agony, pain, fear and terror an animal experiences during a hunt.  Sure, some hunters will retort that their first shot kills the animal instantly.  But look at all of the other times when that first shot doesn't kill an animal and they flee, in vain, dying a painful, excrutiating death.  Why would you want to eat meat that has all of these stress hormones in it?  Everyone knows it ruins the taste.  If you want meat, go to the grocery store.
*****************
I guess hunting is crueller than death by starvation that results from overpopulation of deer.  Even my "hippie" wife majoring in environmental science knows this; she is doing a research paper on deer population and environmental impact.

And do you really think that the meat you get in a grocery store is less cruel?  Look up on youtube videos on slaughterhouses.  There was one I saw where a steer was shocked in the rectum with an electric cattleprod, not to mention beaten and kicked (before it was cut open while still alive and moaning).

Anyone who criticizes hunters (and I'm not one-a hunter or a critic) is a hypocrite if they've ever eaten meat, given birth to more than two children (overpopulation & habitat loss), or bought into the whole material culture of automobies, TVs, central air, etc etc.  Modern and "normal" civilization has caused far more animal suffering than a relative handful of hunters, who are essentially playing the role of the bears and wolves that you mindless zombie hordes have displaced with your cities, suburbs and highways.
I look forward to any help that I can get.  If you are a hunter you know what I am talking about.  Deer are much smarter than some of you know.  I usually kill only one or two a year to eat, we have some hunters that kill everything they see, and as some of you have stated it is better for you than what is purchased at the store.  I have watched one buck for two years waiting for him to make a mistake but he has not, not while I was around.  The other day one of the guys in our club was in that stand for 5 min. and he appeared.  Now I won't have to hunt for him again but for another.  Deer are not dumb, they are very smart and as someone has stated hunters are more conservation minded than most and they are.  Even with the best camo. deer will see you so we need all the help we can get.
When technology becomes sufficiently obsolete, it becomes an art form.

Hunting is an art form.

And "swiftcall" is brilliant in recognizing that the subtleties of "recognition" will be used against us by the robots.  However, despite the billions of people who will be killed, humans will defeat the robots because we can do something they cannot: we can be irrational.

That part of our creative process will be our salvation.
Gee Joan, judging by the amount of comments basically describing David's point as ridiculous, I'd say that there are actually very few people who agree with him. Perhaps you and David are the ones who are not "normal". Wake up, the insulated, "safe", and atificial city you live in is a man-made construct. It is not the real world. The real world lives by the law of fang and claw. I am so glad I am a part of it and not of yours.
A local park in the Kansas City metro area is seriously considering allowing deer hunting on its grounds this year. The deer population there is about 1200% of the maximum sustainable population for the area. If the deer are allowed to remain in their current population, it is estimated about half will die of starvation this winter, they will bring ticks carrying diseases such as lyme disease into human use areas, and the deer will eat too much undergrowth that is essential for other species, some of which are on the threatened list. Of course, the local tree-huggers are fighting the temporary hunting rule. Starvation, disease, and the destruction of threatened species habitat is much preferable to the harvesting of a few deer by human hunters, who will strive to make quick, clean kills, if only so they don't have to spend extra time tracking a wounded animal.
Bruce, I'm coming to Illinios so you can show me where to buy a 300 dollar Armani suit. And Swiftcall? Too many movies bud.
I find this argument rather funny as I hunt only for food. I do not kill for fun as some of the people are inferring. I believe that we need to look for a balance between healthy animals and unhealthy ones. I am also against animals that have never seen the earth due to some factory  filling them with hormones and such. These hormones and such do not break sown in cooking so we are feeding the same hormones to our families which is causing many of the problems that we see today in our bodies. I would rather have some meat that has eaten wild vegetation and theefore grown up healthy. I am finding that many people who are so much against hunting do not even know where their milk comes from, let alsone the other foods that they eat. Is this really humain? Thry to think instead of regurgitating some garbage that was told you on the one eyed wonder they call the best brainwashing tool ever invented (the Television).
Ok, modern science helps the hunter.  How about we now research on helping the prey, to even things out.  Could we, for example, breed deer to exhibit "dazzle" patterns (developed by the Navy in WWI) on their fur to be less visible to hunters?  
The non hunters posting here have no clue. Go out and read. Learn what would happen if we did not hunt wild animals. Learn what is involved in hunting. Learn the success rates. Animals that have no defense? You really think its that easy.  

And for those of you that do not hunt and enjoy our public lands, make sure you thank a hunter. It is hunter dollars that pay for much of those lands.
My daughter was in a horrid car accident with a deer...totaled her car and nearly totaled her life.  We are new to the area and were surprised by the small size of the deer and the huge population.  I say there needs to be more thinning of the herds here...and the only way that is going to happen is by the human hunters.   There are not enough non-human predators left.
I would rather eat the deer I hunt then the meat in the grocery store. With all the antibotics, hormones and other crap they feed and inject in them. I am an avid hunter and OH LTM I AM A WOMAN. My husband was the one that got me into hunting. It took him years to convince me but in the end I love it. At least when I put dinner on the table I know what's in my food do you? Another question for you. Do you eat fish?
Venison, or any wild game has to be the ultimate organically grown super food on the planet.
And nature placed them there for a reason, food for predators, of which humans are one.
Hunting is most certainly in our DNA, suppress it if you so choose, but don't force me to.
Hunting is much more to me than a diversion, it is what I do, the other pursuits in my life are just diversions from hunting.
LTM,as for needing a weapon to kill animals,our ancestors left us with a wealth of knowledge which I have studied extensivly.While I prefer a well placed shot from a high power rifle,if it comes right down to it,I can kill to feed my family using only what is found in the forest(unless that too dissapears due to development).Examples:A long stick sharpened into a spear,a pit fall made by digging a hole in the ground and covering it with leaves,or a deadfall made from a fallen tree.The list dates back to the beginning of time so I will stop here.With this being said,if you will not criticise me for hunting I will not criticise you for inspecting the genitals of big burly men.
Its a little easier eating an animal after hunting it, than it is to try to scrape it off the road and your truck after you just splattered it doing 70 mph. Maybe we should invest in technology to train deer to be a little more responsible for crossing road and highways.
I am sure the police (who protect us from evil) would agree that a high speed chase would be more efficient without trying to dodge deer during the process.
And just what is David doing reading an article on stealth and hunting, being an anti hunter, anyways.
  Hmmm maybe he has an inkling to get out and give it a try.


I don't understand the complaints about using technology to kill animals.  What do you want hunters to do ... jump out from behind a tree and strangle the deer with his bare hands?  The bow, the gun, the scope, were all major advances in technology that no one argues about, and there are still too many deer!  (No, I am NOT a hunter.  But I will defend their right to hunt.)
Just this morning on my way taking my kids to school there were two deer that had been killed overnight by a vehicle. Not only was it a hazard laying in the road to cause more accidents, you had onlookers stopping and checking them out. I'm sure there were vehicles damaged as well as people may have been hurt.

Data shows that deer population has exploded in the last fifty years by new game laws, loss of habitat, and hunters being conservationists. I applaud those of us who hunt and help manage the population. I can't imagine what it would be like if our hunting privledges were taken away. The animal populations, disease, and many more vehicle accidents would sky rocket. Look at some of the statistics on vehicular deer accidents per state...it's unbelieveble.

Just last night we enjoyed our harvest once again as we will continue to do as long as there are laws to allow us to. Venison is our primary source of red meat as we do not buy tainted, red dye #5, gas induced red meat from the stores. Once you understand how to process your harvest right when it is taken it will make a world of difference once it hits your table.

You need to try venison or even elk sometime that is prepared properly...it will be hard to go back to beef.

Wow...Swiftcall...what a hoot. Have you noticed the machines you fear so much are controlled by....gasp.....humans? I think I know where you're headed with this, but for now, go outside and have an actual conversation with someone...please....for your own wellbeing....peace
Looks like a great product.  One of the divisions of my company is a graphic design service but my entire company is in the design field, and blending objects into their environment is something I specialize in so I can appreciate the effort behind the product.

Oddly enough I'm currently painting the stock and forearm of a rifle.  Just finished the final tapeoff to create my customized camo pattern yesterday.  

After considerable researh and generating several different types of camo patterns with graphic design software, I came up with my final pattern and it is very similar to the pattern (the macro in particular) to that referenced in this article.  I'm also using a bone color background with black pattern blocks, so again similar to the color pallet used by the developer of Optifade.  Keep up the good work Optifade folks.  I'm sure you've eyed the military industry - would like to see your product offerings to help better blend our troops into their environments.  It could save lives on the battlefields.

I'm not clear how this blog turned into a discussion about the pro's and con's of hunting, but since it has, I'd like to comment on that too.  Everything living thing on this planet has a purpose and a life cycle.  It will live and die, whether it be a plant or an animal - including people.  When an animal dies it becomes food for something - people, predators, scavengers, etc.  As hunters we just choose the when and where.  When I hunt, one of my top priorities is to dispatch the animal in the most efficient manner - in other words, I want to kill it quickly and I do not want it to suffer.  I eat what I kill and give any extra to those in need.

David, it would be very easy to pick on you, but you've been bashed so much on this blog, there's not much sport in it.  I actually feel pity for you.  

When the day comes (and you can rest assured, it is coming again - as everything in natural world is cyclical) when folks can't run down to the local market to buy food - when they will have to subsist off of the land and their own skills, well, we won't have to worry about folks like you for long now will we.

You'll probably starve to death in a rather short amount of time, or if you're all as weak willed as you appear to be weak minded, and don't seem to understand that people are greatest predators of all, folks like you are going to have pretty tough and short lives.  You need to cowboy up and come to terms with the realities of this world. Maybe your a vegetarian, but if you've ever eaten meat, someone killed the animal that meat was harvested from.  You should thank them for your dinner.  End of story.
How about the good old days of loin cloth and spear.
Really? Do the naive, removed-from-reality urbanites have nothing to do than attack the things of which they have no comprehension?
Whatever.
I'm really wondering how you real hunters feel about this.  I hunt and wear traditional camo, and I'm pretty impressed by this technology and the thought and effort put into a simple camouflage design.  I'm just not sure how willingly I'd break from mossy oak to hunt in digital camo.  Call me a conformist, but I don't want to be the only hunter wearing this when I'm with a group of people who still look like trees.  Not gonna deny its very cool though. Thoughts?
A few random thoughts on the above...

Hunting is necessary to control animal populations of certain species, such as deer in lieu of the natural preditors we have long since extirpated from many areas.

If anyone out there thinks that humanity is going to survive on wild game for any period at all they should crunch some numbers.

If any of you values nature (Gods Creation) you should be doing something about population growth...  6.5 billion and doubling...  Population growth threatens all of nature and ultimately the human species.

Anyone who is looking forward to a collapse of civilization and has the plans and supplies already laid out is suffering from a megalomnaical pathology.

Trophy hunting weakens the herd by taking the best, unlike nature which culls the weakest.

Living in the North Georgia mountains, I find that much of the population are really a weenies with exagerated fears of the snakes, terrorists, and other unlikely threats.  Spurred on by these fears they lash out with guns or by proxy the military.

Those who link their patriotism and machismo to religion are so far divorced from Jesus' teachings as to be "anti-christians."

I have little respect for those who hunt for sport and do not use the meat. Very few hunters are blood thirsty savages! It's like saying that all people who eat at buffets are gluttons. Anyone who likes to eat meat should have to kill and process at least some of it themselves. It teaches you to hate wastefulness and respect the taking of an animal's life. Go visit a commercial farm or slaughterhouse and tell me who is more humane.  Most who oppose hunting apparantly do not realize that the proceeds from hunting licenses allow states to fund our public lands. If they would put their money where their mouth is (and figure out another way to control animal populations!) hunting would not be necessary.
Will the technology process help improve our military camouflage?  That is the real difficulty as the surroundings change from the field to urban to desert.  Are separate patterns required for each?  Some Asian countries already have blue in their patterns.  Does that mean they are ahead of us in the science or just in the recognition that blue works?
Hunting, and being comfortable with it, is really about being more knowledgeable of your food and where it comes from.  
-Venison is organic, free range red meat with half the fat and twice the protein of beef.  It was not herded into a slaughterhouse yard, shot, drained, and processed; those nice steaks in your local grocery store don't grow in the styrofoam containers.
-Hunting is called "hunting", not "catching"; just because I take a walk in the woods with a gun has no bearing on whether I will see, much less get a shot, at a deer.  That requires skill and knowledge.
-Please do not mistake poachers with sportsmen and women.  Losers who trespass, violate game regulations and endanger others with their behavior are NOT SPORTSMEN.  They are POACHERS.  They have made many members of the public look at hunting as wrong - when in fact it has been a way of obtaining food since humanity began.
-Wildlife biologists responsible for managing deer populations in all 50 states know that unmanaged herds become too large to be sustained by their ecosystem, causing massive winter starvation in deer yards during harsh winters and wildly fluctuating numbers of deer.  Hunting is a proven method of maintaining more consistent herds.
-Sportsmen pay for conservation with their fees, taxes on their gear, Ducks Unlimited memberships and volunteer time spent educating others.
-My husband, myself and my 15 yr old daughter hunt.  When my daughter got her first duck a few years ago, my grandmother's comment about growing up during the depression and having to "go wring a chicken's neck when we wanted chicken for dinner" made her laugh and gave a direct inter-generational reference they both related to.
-Finally, please all you hunters, respect the opinions of those who don't hunt.  Allow them the opportunity to respect yours by being respectful of private property and following your state's game regulations.  Demonstrate the possibilities that can come from families spending time together in the woods.
The PETA/Greenpeace freaks who are complaining about hunters are the same ones with leather shoes, leather interiors in the cars and leather coach purses.  Someone please explain that to me.
christina...insightful response that basically sums this arguement up.  Good to hear from you!
Like to see a sample of material up close. You won't be invisible if theres a smell/scent on the fabric!
I was fishing on the Snake River in ID once, catch and release fishing if you want to know.  I took a break from fishing and was eating my store bought lunch when a bald eagle flew down the river, plucked a trout right out of the water, landed and ripped the live fish to shreads with it beak, holding it with its tallons sunk deep into the flesh of the living fish.  Wow, what a sight.  Who did more damage to the fish population that day?  Not me, the eagle killed and ate more fish than I did.  Hey Dave, should we start killing eagles because they also hunt?  Quit making an idiot out of yourself by thinking that humans are not part of the food chain.  You wouldn't be if your ancestors didn't kill and eat wild game!
Being a hunter all my life,I would have to say,its my right.I will not put down anyone who disagrees with me.I live in a free nation and will excercise my right to do so.I don't kill for sport,but if the deer has a big rack,then I will have it mounted.Whats the difference between my mounted deer or the leather from animals that we all wear? If for any reason ,like some people mentioned here,that we have to survive in the woods as our ancesters did,I can truly survive.For the people who do not have the skills to survive in the woods,I would be a blessing for you because I would not let you go hungry.I have watched some shows on tv where they had hidden cameras on meat packing and butcher plants,and have to say my kills are more humane.As for the food ,its  better than what you can buy at the supermarket,and healthier for you too.Population control is also a plus.Rather than having the animals starve or get hit by more cars and causing injury to the animal or humans is a way to keep things in check.I hunt and fish and I am able to survive in case of disaster,Can you? But don't worry,Us hunters and fishermen are a kind breed and will always help people in need.Here is something else to think about,In the winter months,how many plants and such can you find to sustain you till planting season? At least if you have some cured meat you can survive.Protein and salt with some edible plant life and roots etc,will be a welcome sign for someone who is starving.
Cammo is all good, but what about their sense of smell. That will bust you long before any sight cues will. Climb a tree, don't move, make yourself scent-free, and you will take deer no matter what your camo pattern.
This technology is strictly designed for sport hunting, not to help people eat. What, no camo for cow hunting? I support the right to arm bears.
I am laid off from work and I don't make that much money. The deer that I harvisted fills my freezer for the season. deer hunting is also population control, to protect you from hitting a deer on the road. Hey how about this. If their werent so many I gotta haves building big houses on open land (land developers) destroying their (our) natural enviorment so you can have a big house in the newly developed subburbs, we wouldent need such population control.

Illinois once had app 23,400,000 acers of prime parrie land only 200 years ago now only 1,500 acres remain untouched so now where are the aminamls supose to go.
First off WOW! There are a lot of people out there that have no understanding of what hunting really is or how hard it is to take a deer. I just started back hunting this year after not doing it for the past ten years because my job and the people I associated with were not hunters. I grew up all my life being in the outdoors. From Boy Scouts to my first job out of high school at a sporting good store. I learned from day one in Boy Scouts that you must learn to survive in the wild. Yes, we are live in houses and can go to the store to get food when ever will fill the urge. What happens when that is not an option. What will you non-hunters do for food. Come to my tent and ask me for meat. I think not.
Back to hunting. Like I stated before, I just started hunting agin this year and took my first deer with a bow. Granted, todays bows are much faster and easier to shoot than the old long bow, but it is still not something anyone that does not put in the time to learn and practice can do. Hunters are very passionate about their hunting and most will tell you that they want nothing more than to put a good shot on an animal, so it does not have to suffer. I learned that this year when I shoot a deer that was struck by a car and had two broken legs. There was no chance this deer would have survied the night with all the coyotes in the area, so we legally, contacted local sheriff, took the deer. Shooting that wounded deer was the hardest of the 4 deer I took this year and it was 10 feet away and could not run. I wanted nothing but to end his suffering quickly.
So for those of you that think hunters are cruel, ask a hunting if he has ever had to shoot a wounded animal and see how he reacts. Most will tell you that it is not something they like to do, but it is in most cases keeps the animal from suffering.
I'm with you David, and so is most of the normal world.
Joan Jacobs (Sent Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:37 PM)

These kinds of comments make me wonder what people are thinking when they make the remarks. The "normal" world is not in a metal and glass building, that is the Man-made world. The normal world is natural landscape. Trees and stuff. Did you ever think of what is already there when you cut the trees down to put your house in the woods? And David, People who hunt are NOT sick, it is just the natural progression of life. This year I was hunting and I saw two wolves eat a deer. The deer was half eaten before it died. That is the natural world. Even though I hunt Deer, Pheasants, Wild Turkeys and Ducks, there are some things that I will not eat. like canned Tuna. Too much mercury. And Spinach (ecoli). People who think that hunting is cruel should watch the natural world sometime. It is not like the Finding Nemo or Bambi movies that you are used to.
Greg, I live in Wisconsin. We have 600,000 hunters during Deer season and we are required by law to wear the clothing in the color which is called "Blaze Orange" or "10 mile Orange" because it can be seen from 10 miles away. Last Deer season there were 400,000+ Deer that were Harvested in Wisconsin. Not to mention the 100,000 that were Car/Deer collisions. Safety comes from the store too.
Oh the righteousness of small minded people as they sit chewing their chemically infused hamburgers, bacon and chicken nuggets that someone else killed FOR them!! Maybe if they tried some lean, chemical free wild game in their diet for a while their brain cells would start to function! It galls me to see how many deer are killed on our roadways each year and just left to rot and the bleeding hearts think that is better than Bambi being eaten!
How about we don't concern ourselves with HIDING HUNTERS but concern ourselves with extinction because we hunt everything to death, how about trying that.
THIS IS ONE OF THE BIGEST PROBLEMS I HAVE WITH LIBERALS ,IF ITS NOT SOMETHING THEY DO OR LIKE, ITS WRONG. NEVER HAVE I SAID ANYTHING AGAINST ANYONE WHO DOESNT HUNT OR FISH BUT MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN LABELED A KILLER [...] I HAVE NEVER KILLED ANYTHING I WASNT GOING TO PUT ON MY FAMILYS TABLE, IF YOU DONT WANT TO HUNT OR FISH THATS FINE BUT DONT KNOCK ME BECAUSE I DO .......REMEMBER IF GOD DIDENT WANT US TO EAT ANIMALS HE WOULDNT HAVE MADE THEM OUT OF MEAT..PS IF YOU ARE NOT A 100% HONEST TO GOODNESS VEGETARIAN YOUR A HIPOCRIT [...] I HAVE NOT BOUGHT BEEF IN OVER 25 YEARS AND DONT PLAN TO EAT ANY CHEMICALLY LADEN BEEF AN TIME SOON
Where I live, you are taking your life into your hands every time you drive a car at night. There have been two fatalities just in the past several months due to deer in the road-- one the father of a young child who, along with his mother, narrowly escaped death themselves. A few years back I totalled a Lincoln myself when I hit a deer. If I'd been driving my Neon, its low front end would have scooped the stupid thing right through my windshield and I'd be dead right now. The white tail and mule deer populations-- without cougars, grizzlies, and wolf packs to keep them in check-- are out of control. They breed like vermin. Something has to keep their populations in check. That something is hunters. Or would you prefer that they die off every few years due to massive starvation from overpopulation? You urban bean sprout brains with your Bambi/Thumper/Lassie/Flipper delusions of skipping barefoot through the woods while wearing togas are just ignorant of reality. The world has always been about death and killing bringing into being life and living. Some have called it Yin/Yang. I know it's hard to accept, but so is the fact that if you throw a brick straight up into the air it's going to hurt like hell when it hits you on the head on the way back down. Sheeesh.
It's nice to see a healthy debate going on here. I've never been hunting, but most of my friends do. They don't hunt for "sport" but to survive. I'll take fresh moose, lamb, caribou anyday over store bought meat! It's fresh and natural, just like hunting!
Deer kill more people in America than any other animal... population control is a must!!!!  and before you criticize hunters you need to get your facts straight.  Hunters provide more funding for enviornmental protection that any other group including green peace.
How many of you complain about the inhumane treatment of animals by hunting go out and make a horse carry you fat butt around for your pleasure??? Is that humane treatment?
Honestly, I do not mind eating meat or killing for meat.  However, I find it hard to reconcile the stoic scientific justification of controlling animal population with the sheer joy/excitement of killing an animal.  I find it disingenuous to hide behind the scientific justification.  If you enjoy the thrill of killing a defenseless animal with your rifle or piercing flesh with your arrow tip, just say so.  Stand up for who you are.  Be proud.  But please, do not hide behind some scientific study that you could care less about.      
Wow! This new camo gear will be great to use when I'm sneaking up on wildlife to shoot with my camera, which I do when I'm not hunting. I'm sorry for you David, that you've been isolated from the experience of the hunting tradition so many of us love.  My daughter and I have our best memories wrapped around our outdoor hunting trips.

I'm glad to live in Montana
I figure I'll either got one with my truck or get one with my gun. Getting one with the gun is cheaper and tastes better too. Plus wild meat has been proven to be healthier than beef anyway. If you make a good shot the animal won't even know what happened. Better than what they do to livestock.
Reading some of these comments makes me laugh. Hunting as a sport, never really looked at it that a way.
I know for a fact hunting is a way of life for many, another way to support their family. Not only is my freezer full of home grown vegetables and fruit, it is stocked with deer, elk and fish. I grew up on a farm, with parents that did the same things their parents did,as does my family now. Compare the cost of feeding my family of four to another family that does not hunt or plant a garden.
If you have never hunted you will never understand it so therefore you do not have the right to judge others. It is not like you get out of your car, shoot something and go home. It requires patience, the ability to withstand the cold, and to camouflage yourself. Animals can see you, smell you and hear you. If as i said you hunt for the right reasons a lot of things play into Hunting. Be it a Doe or trophy Buck the meat is all that is first and foremost important to the true hunter.
I have grown up in Minnesota and the hunting that I was taught from my dad started with respect for the deer that we would hunt. In all of the years that I have bowhunted, I have come home more often than not with no deer taken but with a smile on my face and stories to tell. The pure joy of being in the close proximity of deer in the forest and being able to watch go about their daily routines has been the real highs in the "hunt". It was the ability to be close to these animals that was the real challenge and if this new camo lets me enjoy this even more, great. I know alot of people that do not carry a weapon into the woods but only carry a camera and they enjoy the ability to be close as much as the hunters do. Any animal that we do harvest is completely eaten by my family and the first thing I do after taking that animal is to put my hand on it and say a prayer to God.
Go to your local Game and Fish web page and look at the kill ratios for the last 10 years. You will see that they remain abut the same. This is called management; there are two problems without it, over population or extinction. We have seen the most improved technological advances during this time frame in hunting equipment from weapons to clothing to thermal socks; non of which gurantee harvesting an animal. Any hunter will tell you that its not about the kill, its all about the hunt. We are equally satisified without a kill.

Unless you’re a vegetarian some of you are being a little bit hypocritical. Somehow it’s OK for you to eat meat if someone else killed, cleaned and cooked it for you. If I do it myself I’m called an evil barbarian.

I was nearly killed twice by deer crossing the highway into the nature preserve behind the new subdivision. They showed no pity or remorse for almost knocking me off my Harley @ 65 mph.

By the way, vegetarian is an old Indian word for piss poor hunter :-)



SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=1709883

Latest Tech & Science News

Syndicate This Site

Add Cosmic Log to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google