ABOUT COSMIC LOG

Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

Check out Boyle's biography or send a message to Cosmic Log via cosmiclog@msnbc.com.



Puzzling over pre-humans

Posted: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:43 AM by Alan Boyle


Dave Einsel / Getty Images file
A sculptor's rendering, part of an exhibit focusing on the 3.2-million-
year-old hominid called Lucy, shows how she might have looked in life.

The world’s best-known skeleton of a human ancestor - whose name, "Lucy," came from a Beatles song - now lies splayed out in Seattle's Pacific Science Center like ornaments in a glass jewelry case. Or, more aptly, like 3.2-million-year-old pieces of a jigsaw puzzle.

Anthropologists are still working on the puzzles about human origins that have been posed by Lucy and other fossils, including a major find that was made just a couple of miles away from the place where Lucy was found 34 years ago.

The long-running mystery surrounding the "First Family" - a grouping of fossil bones representing up to 17 of Lucy's kin from Ethiopia's Afar region - is just one of the many unresolved plot threads in the scientific story about our long-ago ancestors.

"Lucy's Legacy," an exhibition that began its Seattle run last weekend, recaps the story so far. The traveling exhibit made news last year when it came to the Houston Museum of Natural History, because it represented the first time the Ethiopian government allowed Lucy's skeleton to be displayed abroad. Since then, the cultural controversy has settled down - but scientific controversies continue.

Almost human?
Lucy and the rest of her species (named Australopithecus afarensis, Latin for "southern ape of Afar") were not human, in everyday terms or technical terms. They looked more like apes than humans, and stood only about three and a half feet (1 meter) tall. But the point is that they stood at all: An analysis of Lucy's pelvis and leg bones indicated that she was capable of walking upright, making her the earliest known specimen exhibiting solid evidence for that trait.


© Pacific Science Center
The skeleton of a 3.2-million-year-old hominid
named Lucy is displayed at the "Lucy's Legacy"
exhibit at Seattle's Pacific Science Center.

Other bones revealed a blend of simian and human features. As I stared down at the jewel case, on display at the Pacific Science Center's "Lucy's Legacy" exhibit, I was most struck by Lucy's V-shaped jaw, lined with fossilized teeth. That, more than anything, gave me a sense of how small and strange-featured Lucy must have been.

For Donald Johanson, the Arizona State University paleoanthropologist who was one of Lucy's discoverers, the jaw told much more: The shape of the bone, the alignment of the teeth and even details about the cusps of Lucy's premolars all told him that Australopithecus afarensis was more apelike than humanlike from the neck up.

The implication was that Lucy's upright walking came before the bigger brains of her descendants. Today, the mainstream view is that australopithecines like Lucy first became bipedal - perhaps as part of an adaptation to living on Africa's savannahs instead of ape-friendly forests. That evolutionary development opened the way for more dextrous hands, and then brains more suited for manipulating tools.

Upright walking has thus come to be considered the key dividing line between the evolutionary branch leading to humans (a category of creatures known as hominids) and the other branches leading to today's non-human primates.

Even assuming that's the right story to tell, there are plenty of gaps in the narrative: Does Lucy really represent the single branch leading to humans, as Johanson proposed? Or is the lower part of the human family tree more like a tangle of shoots and roots, with bipedalism and other humanish traits emerging on multiple fronts? Exactly what kinds of evolutionary pressures were at work? How much did hominids have to cope with natural predators and ancient climate change?

These questions are being pursued by researchers spread out across Africa, from Ethiopia down to South Africa and northwest to Chad. Several years ago, the discovery of a 6- to 7-million-year-old skull in Chad sparked a debate over whether upright walking went much farther back in the family tree, and that debate is still not entirely resolved.

3 million-year-old cold case
Some of the biggest questions surround the First Family, the fossils found by Johanson and his colleagues a year after Lucy's discovery. The collection of more than 200 bones came from the same time frame in which Lucy lived, from the same place, and apparently from the same species. Thirteen to 17 individuals are represented, ranging from juveniles to adults.

To anthropologists investigating the First Family's demise, the mystery is, if anything, even juicier than Lucy's saga.

"It's very much like a forensic case, where you've got an unexplained death ... and you're trying to figure out what happened, only this case is 3 million years old," said the Smithsonian Institution's Anna Kay Behrensmeyer, who has been studying the case for years.

Even Johanson has said the First Family is as deserving of fame as Lucy. According to South African reports, he's trying to nail down the evidence for the cause of death by consulting with an expert on prehistoric predators.

In the past, investigators have suggested that the entire troop of hominids might have died in a flash flood, or were done in by a bout of food poisoning. But Behrensmeyer said the current prevailing theory is that they were the victims of a "surplus killing" by blood-crazed predators. "This is documented as a natural phenomenon," she said.

Behrensmeyer noted that the biggest predators of the time were saber-toothed cats. One scenario suggests that the cats massacred a whole troop of hominids, perhaps leaving behind remains to be scavenged by the ancestors of modern-day hyenas.

But anthropologists are still only in the early stages of the investigation. Some still question whether the First Family was actually a familial unit, or instead represented a variety of hominid species whose bones were cached together by scavengers. Additional pieces of evidence could produce dramatic plot twists, just as they do in the TV crime dramas.

"It's important to get the facts straight," Behrensmeyer said. "What's critical about this is, first of all, to determine whether all these specimens were buried together."

The time frame was far too early for the type of intentional burials that early humans and even Neanderthals were capable of performing, she said. Nevertheless, unraveling the case of the First Family will add a new chapter to the story of Lucy and our other long-ago ancestors.

"It does say a lot about how they died, and how they lived," Behrensmeyer said.

More resources
For much more about the Lucy exhibit, check out the "Lucy's Legacy" Web sites for Houston and Seattle, as well as coverage from the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. "Becoming Human" and the Institute of Human Origins' Web site delve into paleoarchaeology in general and Johanson's work in particular. You can also check out the Smithsonian's Human Origins Program and the Leakey Foundation. Our own special report on evolution, "Fast Forward," features an interactive graphic on human origins as well as potential human futures.

If you're looking for books about human origins, you can sink your teeth into one or all of these three, which serve as this month's triple selection for the Cosmic Log Used Book Club.

  • "Lucy: The Beginnings of Humankind," by Donald Johanson and Maitland Edey.
  • "The First Human: The Race to Discover Our Earliest Ancestors," by Ann Gibbons.
  • "Before the Dawn: Recovering the Lost History of Our Ancestors," by Nicholas Wade.

The CLUB Club highlights books with cosmic themes that you should be able to find at your local library or secondhand-book shop.

Update for 2:15 p.m. ET: A sharp-eyed commenter recalled that Lucy's bones were brought to the Cleveland Museum of Natural History after their discovery. At the time, Johanson was a curator at the museum, and he worked out a deal with the Ethiopian government to bring Lucy to Cleveland for study in 1975. The bones were returned to Ethiopia in 1980, without going on public display. I've revised this item to make allowance for Lucy's scientific sojourn.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

It is so fascinating to live now as we discover more and more truth about our origins.  Evolution is real and everyday we receive more proof of it's veracity.  It is so cool that there are so many scientists out there putting the pieces together to tell us, and thanks Alan for posting this great informative article.

So sad that organized superstition freaks have to whine about their false god and their false myths.  The real missing link is in their minds as they can't put one and one together to get two.  Wake up and face reality for evolution is the greatest story ever told.
Sgt. Pepper- It's good to hear from you again.
Tt's amazing how truth can be missed by so many intelligent people.  The Bible is the oldest written work that lists hundreds of details (people's names, names of places, history, prophecy predicted & prophecy fulfilled).  Details are being confirmed by anthropologists all the time.  Check out the authenticity of the Bible compared to other ancient manuscripts & it's clear it is authentic & accurate.  If all that is true, then it follows that the Creation by God is true.  Check it out.
                     Dave Johnson
                     Cambridge, Minnesota
Jeff, I'll back you 100%. I have never been one to say that creationism must be in absolute opposition to evolution. Why must people be so arrogant about their individual opinions. I've often speculated that we "humans" may have already been around when God came and touched a couple of us and said "Now you have a soul and are created in My likeness".
Wow such ignorance...the Bible? NO answers there!! Read it sometime...did you have sex before marriage? Yes? Then why aren't you stoned to death as The BIBLE says to do? We evolved from chimp/ape LIKE creatures..not from them directly..they evolved from the same creatures as we did but branched off of the tree. [...]
one can believe in "creationism" AND evolution. the two are not exclusive of one another. so few people believe the world is 6,000 years old.
1. People keep brining up "missing link" this and "missing link" that...the article does not once mention Lucy as the missing link. What it does bring up is the many different features that compare between apes and humans.

2. There is one side that never gets defended here. The ape side. Lucy is niether ape nor human. We are so quick to dimiss her as not being human, but alas, she is also not ape. Hmmm....where does she fit in creationists?

3. Also, to the person who believes in only God and the Bibe, and not the word of man. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that your Bible, like mine, is written in English. I'm not sure who at Zondervan translated mine into English from whatever language it was "originally" in (Greek?), but I'm going to guess that is was a human. While I'm certainly not a linguist I do know that direct translation from one language to another is nearly, if not entirely, impossible. So there must have been some, eh "editorial interpretations," done by man in the modern day translations of the Bible.
I do not doubt the existence of God or the idea of his creating the universe and this sweet little creature. What amazes me is the conceit of men who think that they  and only they can interpret what he did. God has infinite ways of achieving his goals and evolution seems a very orderly and logical way of doing things. Are some people so enamored of themselves and so egotistical that the see themselves as God's greatest achievement?
Remember it was only necessary to send a Savior when man became so misguided and deranged that we needed to be taught again what  goodness is. Why are these same people not trying to save His planet or His peoples.
I suppose if there were a holy book that preached a different concept of thermodynamics that people who were entirely ignorant of the theories of thermodynamics would feel entitled to spout off against them.  Weird.
I love how people use the "We havent found it yet so it cannot be found" argument as proof.  Are you guys dumb?  We HAVENT found everything...we WOLNT find everything.  We arent any different from the life that surrounds us.  If he had all the answers upfront then we would be god.
Has everyone forgotten that two fully human skeletons were found in the same strata as Lucy a few years later. Ancestor? I don’t think so!
I think it is extremely sad that so many people believe Darwin's and other's lies, and that it will cost them not knowing the truth about themselves. The truth that they have a soul and spirit, along with their created body. For any questions about life and its fundamental questions, check out the Bible.
To Cee G,
Very funny statement "stories like this bring THEM out of the woodwork to do their rants".  From what I see, the "rants" first came from people other than the "Bible Thumpers".  Also, how is it that if you agree it is a fact and if you don't it's a rant?  I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion.

To Jeff in San Diego - Why do you atomatically assume that people who don't believe in evolution don't understand it?  I know plenty of people who understand it perfectly and still don't believe it.  To answer your question about who's to say evolution isn't God's way of creating...God, actually say's it in Genesis.

NOTHING in this article seemed to be based on fact, only theory and yet people believe that and make fun of those who believe in creationism and calling THAT blind faith!
Funny how you can spot the "churchers" immediately because they are threatened so easily. I think they should do some DNA and carbon dating on Santa Claus to keep the "churchers" happy also..
Since there's no cartilage, skin, or hair, how do we know she had a nose, skin, and hair like an ape?  Isn't that the artist's attempt to make her look like a transitional hominid, per the preconception that she is?  I'd like to see a rendering of what Lucy could have looked like, if we assumed more human features!  Shouldn't true science consider all the possibilities?
I am a scientist and I am a Christian.  I sympathize with those of you who feel that science challenges your interpretation of the Bible and your version of Christianity.  But you must understand that evolution as a scientific principle is all but indisputable.  Yes, there are still many questions that need to be answered, but ALL the biological sciences operate from the meta-theory of evolution.  If carbon dating were critical to holding up the argument then we might be worried about just how accurate it is.  But we see evidence from ethology (comparisons of different species) from archeology, from DNA, from psychology, etc.  All these sciences keep finding evidence that confirms that life (including humans) is the result of evolutionary processes.  Evolutionary concepts are used to develop your vaccines and to grow the crops and raise the animals you eat just to name a few of its applications.
I know that it might be hard for those of you who are not trained in evolution to understand how it works.  Modern humans have existed for more than 150,000 years.  By that we mean that we have essentially not changed in that time.  That is because it takes more time than that for any real change to take place.  I and many others live lives that are full of faith and abide by Christian ideals, but at the same time cannot pretend that what is there is not there.  I cannot resolve all the inconsistencies right now, but I don't believe that I have to.  But I know that misinterpretations of doctrine and the Bible have blinded many over the centuries.  As a scientist I will look at what I can see, and measure.  As a Christian I will have faith in what I cannot see.  Someday, someone wiser than me will explain how it works, but for now I will live in both worlds and apply the appropriate method to each world; faith for religion, evidence for science.  
Evolution is a fact. It's happening around us all the time. There are very few species of animals that are the same today as they were 1 million years ago. There is a lot of medical research and science today that relies on the fact that bacteria and viruses evolve. The "theory" part of evolution is that we are still learning how these processes work.

Folks, the noise-to-signal ratio is going up, and so there are some messages I'm not approving (or editing down) just because they don't really add that much to the discussion or rant a little too much against believers or non-believers. Please try to stay civil on on-topic. I know I'm not a perfect judge in this regard, so if your insightful message somehow went by the wayside, I apologize.
[...] We see evolution in progress all around us, we only "see", however, the snapshot of it in our little blink of an eye timing. If we could live millions of years, we'd witness various species beginning, dying out, and giving birth to new future species. Today, every canine variety from the Chihuahua to the Great Dane can be traced genetically to the Eastern Grey Wolf. But you cannot show me a specific chain from the Wolf to the Chihuahua. In the same way, you cannot retrace the specific chain (or tree limb) from "Lucy" to modern hominids, monkeys and apes. Evoution is more like a gigantic bush with many many limbs and twigs. It is a factual theory based on a convergence of evidence from all the various scientific disciplines. It has nothing to do with your respective mythical humanites and holy scriptures. Deal with it! [...]
Hmmm!!! I don't know about yours but my God is smart enough to make evolution work. That is two opposable thumbs up for Lucy.
Of course every form of life is in transition(evolving) to accomodate changing environments.  You can't see see it within a moment in time, it happens over millions of years.  Both evolution and creation are 'theories', but evolution is backed by science..not just fairytales or feelings.
Why are people still debating the issue of "Evolution vs Creation" at this point in time.  Even the Catholic Church indicates that evolution is not against the Church.  Genetic studies have proven, that DNA of humans and chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes and Pan panscis) are 98.9 percent identical.  

For anyone to argue against evolution at this day and age, is illogical given the scientific knowledge.  Evolution is not concerned with social structure or morality issue.  

Religion, on the other-hand, is a belief system in something unseen and it is a metaphysical existance providing useful social structures and guidelines.  
It was science that exposed the Piltdown Man. Too bad all creationists today won't allow their work or findings to be peere reviewed (outside of creationists), for then surely there work would be exposed for teh hoax that it is. Then how could they make a living duping the gullible 90% of our great superstitious nation?
I don't know about others, but I find it quite offensive for someone to tell me that my great-great-great-great grandmother was an APE! C'mon, how stupid do you really think "today's" humans are? Get a life!
Did anyone see the program on caves last night on Discovery Channel?  They showed newts and crabs who's eyes no longer exist.  From my perspective this shows that living in the absence of light, over time, eye function is no longer needed and thus no present on these animals or their descendants.  Is that a clear case of evolution?
This is what I mean - no one understands each other's theories and/or is willing to REALLY sit down and learn them. So...
Bible thumpers - You are right. Evolution is a big Satan-based plan to fool us, and God, in His infinate wisdom, is letting some of us fall for it. Poor us.
Evil-lutionists - You are right. A book that says it is The Word, and its proof is that it says so, is laughable.
I just dont understand why no one can simply agree to disagree -
(And none of that "You're corrupting society" stuff, because Catholic priests and 2000 years of various persecutions beat them to the punch.  And also no "They're squelching the truth" stuff, because, you've got to admit, the fact we're even discussing evolution publically is a hell of an improvement over 150 years ago. Scopes, anyone?)
You believe X, I believe Y. Let it go folks.
Go take a walk with your kids, go to the beach, take a nap
Or continue to work yourselves into a frenzy, and I'll stop by all your graves.
Enjoy!
What is so remarkable, is that as hard as humans try, we will never have all of the answers.  We will never have the last piece of the puzzle, so we could somehow stand back and proclaim, "look at all I know."...or  to say one side is right and the other side is wrong.  It is an absurd arguement.  I don't necessarily need to have all of the answers.  Knowing that there were early humans and dinosaurs shouldn't shake my faith in the One who created them.  We only know in part.  I think that if mankind acquired the ability to be all-knowing, the world would be a scary place.  There would be no room for faith, hope, wonder, or awe.  It would be tragically void of questioning.  These are questions that, at least in this lifetime, we will probably never have the answers to...and that ought to be okay.
Evolution defies scientific laws. The Theory of Evolution says that over time, things are getting more and more complex. This is not true. It is a scientific law that things break up over time. Also, sea shells and rocks that are formed under water are found on top of mountains which is evidence of The Flood. There are a lot of problems with Evolution and I don't even have enough room to type all the problems I know of out. So, I'll post some links that elaborate on a lot of the problems. http://www.creationworldview.org/articles_view.asp?id=53, http://www.creationworldview.org/articles_view.asp?id=46, http://www.creationworldview.org/articles_view.asp?id=31, http://www.creationworldview.org/articles_view.asp?id=1, http://www.creationworldview.org/articles_view.asp?id=2, http://www.creationworldview.org/articles_view.asp?id=38
I am tired of people saying evolution is currently not occurring, there are multiple examples of it all around us.  Bacteria and fungi are constantly evolving to become resistant to our antibiotics, animals are changing behavior due to climate change (man made or not), and a great example is the House Finch.  A non-migratory western species is introduced on the east coast and evolves into a partial migrant where some of the individuals migrate south for the winter.  Evolution generally takes millions of years, humans cannot think on that time scale.  If you are alive for only 100 years of course you are not going to see it.  There are multiple examples of micro and macro evolution.  Just because it occurs does not mean there is no God, why are we so scared of evolving?  We have this need to be special that I cannot understand.  I think it is sad that despite lots of evidence (admittedly incomplete) we still rely on a creation story.  Even though every race and religion has its own story, their stories are no more or less believable than the one in the bible.  Its time to grow up and get over this idea that we are something special, maybe then we can realize what we are doing and work to save ourselves and the planet instead of destroying it.
God is powerful enough to have created the entire universe from a singlularity billions of years ago.  He is glorious enough to have manifest all of the scientific principles necessary for the expansion of the universe and the evolution of man at that single point in time.  His ways are mysterious and completely beyond human comprehension.  The Bible would lay all that out if it were not limited by the imaginations of the inspired humans who wrote it.  We are limited, God is not.  To think that God would create reality in the simple minded fashion set forth in Genesis is to desperately underestimate God.  God created all the Natural Laws: they are logical and follow rationally.  To believe rigidly in biblical creationism is to deny use of the brain God gave you and rely instead on the instructions of other flawed humans.  Don't be so afraid of exploring the world for truth, it all leads ultimately to God in the final analysis.
There is no difference between creationism and evolutionism.  Evolution is simply the process of creation.  There is a God (one God) who simply takes his/her time with the "work in progress."  Small minded humans like to put things in small boxes that they can wrap their minds around and understand.  We also tend to create our own version of things which is why we have so many variations of God based upon our societal backgrounds. Having done so we use this as an excuse to go around killing each other in the name of God!  The "End Times" are indeed upon us simply because we are our own worst enemy and are playing out a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Our only hope is to learn to live together in peace with each other and with nature.  The alternative is self destruction.  Have a nice day.
The new Duck-Billed Platypus DNA tests shows clear facts of evolution.
I Believe every story in the bible.  I also
believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and
the Tooth Fairy. ---  I also like sarcasim.
200 thousand years ago we caused the extinction of the Neanderthals. It’s an endless process. Survival of the fittest…
I hopefully make it up there to see this before they return her home.
Evolutionists and Creationists are both WRONG!
It's about the Economists.  Because if you can't pay for it; you probably ain't gettin' any.
People Evolution is not only a fact, it is a fundamental law of physics. Everything changes given enough time. Everthing.
Joe, no true Primate researcher has ever stated that we came from monkeys, only that we have common ancestors. [...]
Hmmm, ok lets review...

Known Facts:
1. We are here on Planet earth.
2. Multiple views exist about how we got here.
3. Some with a "Creator", some without.
4. None of us were there at the time.
5. All views claim science proves their case(How many times have I heard that before).
Conclusions:
1. If there is no "Creator" we are just animals and all the arguments really won't change much.
2. If there is a "Creator" we are not just animals and all the agruments won't change much.

Opinion:
1. I suspect that if a "Creator" is involved, in whatever manner, then the "Creator" will settle the issue if it really is something worth argueing about.
2. I adhere to a version of the "Creator" view, but willingly listen to other opinions. We are free moral agents.

Have a nice day
Evolution is a "theory".  A "theory" is a "hypothesis" that has not been dis-proven by the scientific method.  Science is consistantly changing with new findings.  If someone can "dis-prove" the theory of evolution they will be an extremely wealthly person and one of the most influential.

The problem with creationism is that it cannot be put under scientific testing....that's not to say it's not true, we just haven't been able to find a way to test it yet (although the europeans are trying).  Some people are able to go on faith alone to discover their truth, others need a cause and effect rationale...and that's okay because that's how God made us.

ok, I have been taught the bible my whole life. I don't really believe in it but my upbringing makes me want to disagree with you. What I want to know is, if the bones were hundreds of miles apart, how do we know they're all from "Lucy"? How do we know we're not studying another stupid hoax and wasting time while the real answers elude us?

[ALAN ADDS: I'm not aware that the bones from Lucy were found hundreds of miles apart. You may be confusing this with the idea that bones from the species that Lucy represented ... Australopithecus afarensis ... have been found hundreds of miles apart. But these were different individuals (e.g. Lucy in Ethiopia vs. the Laetoli hominids found in Tanzania). Here's a link that references the Laetoli finds:]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laetoli#Human_remains

I have been told that the knee that is attributed to Lucy was found at a level 200 feet different from where the other bones were found.  If this is the case and I wish that someone could confirm or deny it, then Lucy is on pretty shaky ground since the knee again as I was told was one of the main reasons, they thought it walked upright.  Any commentsZ?

[ALAN ADDS: In the book that Donald Johanson wrote, "Lucy: The Beginnings of Humankind," he describes finding two pieces of a knee joint that fit together in a way that suggested upright walking, apparently at some distance from the Lucy site, during the 1973 field season (page 155). This was a precursor to the Lucy find in 1974. Perhaps this is what folks were referring to. But this was by no means part of the Lucy skeleton.]

When I saw the headline saying 'Pre-humans', I thought the story would be about politicians.
Humans are simply the result of selective breeding by aliens. Ape and alien DNA produce humans.
                                     Lamar  
Ok, first a lot of Christians forget that God Breathed Life into Adam.  That life is what we call a Soul.  The rest of Adam and US is window dressing.  Where that window dressing came from only God knows for certain.  

As for the 6000 or 10,000 year old earth, how long where Adam and Eve in the garden?  When did they start ageing?  Remember there was a tree of life in the garden.  

Last thing, if you are going to tell of the wonderful creation and have it passed down generation to generation by word of mouth, how would you tell it?  Make it simple so that everyone can remember it or give all the details?

I love to cook and there is nothing better than taking the basic things and combining them into a wonderful meal.  For ME, I don't believe God is a Shake-n-Bake type of Guy.  Can he Shake-n-Bake?  Sure but my guess is that he took the time needed for each and every step.
Ah,the age old debate of Creation vs. Evolution...Scopes would be intrigued. I am an Athiest...a proud Athiest at that. I've been down the "Bible" road many times, I know it front to back. What brings me back to Athiesm? Science like that which is being done on Lucy. I love it, I love the knowledge gained, the theories postulated, tested, rewritten, and postulated again. This trial and error is truely how our species will move on, with good science, creativity, and discovery. I could go on for hours dismissing all the "God did it" creationists and their flimsy arguments, but, I have learned that it's a fruitless battle as most of them do not want to know the Truth. Let us modern humans evolve and learn and move on, and leave the more primative humans to their magic and sorcery.

Love ya Lucy!! Long live Science!
Small minds will always turn and run to the Bible because it gives them easy answers to complex questions they either don't really understand or that they are afraid to know the REAL answers to.  That is why we have scientific inquiry.  It is not always perfect, but it asks the right questions and it changes over time as we learn more.  That's right...think about that.  We can go back and revise incorrect theories and hypotheses when we discover new evidence.  The Bible is a never changing ancient document that is full of errors, contradictions, and mythological fairy tales.  You can wish for something to be true because it makes you feel good and it allows you to get through life without having to think for yourself...but in the end, it only deludes you into your own dark corner of ignorance.  If you JUST have faith, it just means you aren't looking hard enough.  
question.... i'm not saying that creationist or evolutionists are wrong, I have my own opinions but who says i am right.  The question i have for creationist aside from the dinosaur fossils vs 6000 year old planet is this: If the universe is too complex to be an accident and the earth is so unique that it had to be created by a "higher power" then who created God?, because if the universe is that complex, then anything that created it must be infintly more complex and therefore had to have a creator... it could possibly "just always have been there". and if you believe that then you are proving evolutionist' theory for them.... that something infinitly complex "can just be"
so if i got a chimpanzee skeleton, wore it down, and took away one third of the bones, it would look different from that?

variables seen as constants is not how science works. science is about truth. surmising is an opinion. people can take anything and take it as truth. with creationists, the truth is the bible. with evolutionists, their truth is evolution. either party doesnt completely know the beleifs of the other party because they havent neccesarily seen the happenings or the proofs of that party, but if someone is involved in either party, then their truth tells them that the other party's truth is wrong. i could tell you about the miraculous wonders god has done in my life, and you wouldnt neccessarily beleive me.

if people read the bible, it tells them inside of it that inthe beggining there was God, and the word was with God, and the word was god. John 1:1
that means that everything in the bible is truth (if you beleive in it), and that god himself would not allow himself to be perverted throughout generations of man. it really comes down to whether god made man or man made god. saying that the bible is symbolism is saying that jesus wasn't raised from the dead, that the flood never happened, and that god isn't real.

  also, ever notice how many peoples have died off, but the jewish people are alive and they have their land?    
lucy is not human nor a missing link. I believe we were created, but not by the GOD that most believe. I believe a sub human species was altered by a higher intellegence to become what we are today. Thats why they cannot find the missing link, we were created as a New species we did not evolve into one.I believe this more so than the bible.
LOL! Wow! The first posters called it. Didn't take long at all for ignorance to show up flashing 'The Bible' around and telling people there is no evidense. Sheesh...

Sometimes, I feel REALLY bad for those people... Then again, most of the time I don't! =P

Lucy is an amazing find. Her coupled with all the other fantastic discoveries over the years have really advanced our knowledge of the past. Thanks to all those scientists and researchers out there looking for the REAL answers!


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=1491327

Latest Tech & Science News

Syndicate This Site

Add Cosmic Log to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google