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Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

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How much is that in Apollos?

Posted: Friday, October 03, 2008 3:56 PM by Alan Boyle


NASA
Moonwalker Buzz Aldrin poses for a picture taken by Neil Armstrong during 1969's
Apollo 11 mission. In current dollars, the Apollo program cost around $100 billion.

How much will $700 billion get you? Roughly speaking, the widely publicized cost of the financial bailout … er, rescue package … is equal to seven Apollo programs, or 70 state-of-the-art atom-smashers. The magnitude of the figures being thrown around is so much easier to understand when you use our currency conversion chart for mega-projects.

A goodly number of real-world cost comparisons have come out since the $700 billion figure was first put out there, a couple of weeks ago. For example, msnbc.com's First Read blog pointed out last week that $700 billion is just a bit more than the gross domestic product of Taiwan, or the total expense on the war on Iraq to date. If you take another tack, you could see it as three times the annual income of every household in Ohio.

Of course, no comparison is going to be completely accurate. On one hand, the initial price tag will almost certainly come to more than $700 billion, thanks to $110 billion in goodies that were added to the plan to sweeten the deal. On the other hand, the federal government could juggle the mortgage-related securities so adroitly that some of the money is made back. Such spin-offs could produce benefits to offset the bailout's effective cost.

Come to think of it, that's sort of how the space program works, too.

What we need is a currency scale that helps people visualize these multimillion/multibillion-dollar government programs, using gee-whiz images if possible. This would be handy for much more than the bailout: For example, when someone talks about an Apollo-scale program for energy independence, what does that actually mean?

Fortunately, folks who have been covering the space effort have been doing this ever since the days of the actual Apollo program. "One Apollo" turns out to be a relatively standard currency unit, the equivalent of $25 billion in 1970 dollars, or roughly $100 billion in today's dollars.

In fact, you could put together a whole scale of scientifically based currency units, based on the estimated cost of big projects, including the Large Hadron Collider and the international space station. In reality, these numbers are always squishy. Nevertheless, even order-of-magnitude estimates can be helpful.

Let's start with the smallest unit for big projects. Back in 2004, reporters covering SpaceShipOne's quest for the $10 million X Prize reflected on how much money billionaire Paul Allen was contributing to the project. It turns out that the reported figure - $25 million - crops up in another context. That's how much Allen contributed to the initial construction phase of the Allen Telescope Array, which is hunting for signals from alien civilizations.

In honor of those contributions, we can set the value of the allen at $25 million in 2004 dollars. Since then, the value has almost certainly gone up, to the extent that you could probably use an allen to buy a $30 million trip to the international space station. If you happen to have several allens sitting around, you could start your own space program (as Elon Musk did when he invested 4 allens to found SpaceX). And the scale just goes up from there, as detailed in this currency chart:

Currency unit...

Equals ...

In dollars ...

1 allen








Paul Allen's expense on the
SpaceShipOne project, or on
the Allen Telescope Array.
Also, the cost of a ticket
to the international space
station on a Russian craft, or
the Google Lunar X Prize purse.


$25 million
(ranging up
to $30 million)






1 rover




20 allens. Equal to the
per-rover cost for NASA's
Mars Exploration Rover mission.


$500 million
(ranging down
to $400 million)


1 shuttle






2 rovers. Roughly equal
to the cost of launching
a shuttle mission
in the
post-Columbia era.

 

$1 billion
(NASA has
cited figures ranging
from $450 million
to $2 billion)


1 LHC





10 shuttles. Equal to
the construction cost
of the Large Hadron Collider.



$10 billion
(some estimates
only count $6
billion in expenses)


1 Apollo








10 LHCs. Equal to
the cost of the Apollo
space program in current
dollars. Also roughly equal
to space station cost, or the
cost of returning to the moon.


 

$100 billion
(and rising)







1 budget


30 Apollos. Equal to
the White House's
federal budget proposal.
$3 trillion
(actually, $3.1
trillion
for FY 2009)


Does all this make you feel better about the $700 billion, or worse? Feel free to weigh in with your comments below.

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Comments

it would be smarter to drop 200B in to the space program. this will start jobs rolling. a big push for spin off techs would not hurt.
give the rest to city's to improver there sewer systems. right now city's are going bankrupt trying to redo there combined sewer systems. this would get the EPA off of every towns rear and improve the water quality in the states.

if you add building methane collection at the sewage plants we could fuel the states with natural gas that is renewable. converting city busses and school busses to run on the new fuel source would add to the job market. refueling centers are all ready in place. building new fueling centers will add to the job market.

this would be the biggest works project in the history of the world. with a bunch of benefits, clean water, better fuel source and tons of jobs for years to come.  you would be shocked at the number of jobs this would make.
Some of us are perfectly willing to draw anologies to facts, Chris.

Where ae yours?

I'm sure the Soviets (who wanted to get there as well), for whom exposing Apollo as a fraud, would mean the greatest propoganda coup of all time, would throw that away, yes?

Oh, that's right. They were in on it too, and comspiracy theorists have better resources than the KGB...

sigh.

One wonders what the excuses will be, when someone *does* get back there? But, getting back on topic, at this rate, NASA will be lucky get the budget to afford to launch an Estes rocket, in a few years...

700 billion with annual budget of 3 trillion or about 1/4 to 1/3 of the annual US budget. By mortgage standards it's not too far off.
Apollo was insane. Aside from the econimic fallout it created, the cost of life success ration should have been enough to stymie the entire project. Regarding the current state of affairs, all this dithering in useless. This entire event was orchestrated long ago :1950's. We will be reduced to an uncomprehesible debt that will be unrecoverable . How does that grab you? look into it . Google freemasons. Start there.
Dang, Winston. When you conjured the image of the Statue of Liberty on a scale to compare with the weight of $985bil one dollar bills, the first thing that leapt into my mind was dropping all that money on the other end of the scale and seeing Miss Liberty go flying. Apt. I don't imagine her trajectory would put her into orbit, but I bet it'd toss her far enough out into the Atlantic to make a good splash.
Seeing the blog from the gentleman who doesn't believe anyone actually went to the Moon made the whole read worthwhile.
Wonder if he knows about The Flat Earth Society.
Get out there and vote, Sir.  Yours is the kind of vote we need to keep our country 'on the straight and narrow' !!
What  do not understand is how we can give money to failed or failing institutions or prop them up by buying their troubled assets. All of this is done to create the flow of money into the credit markets so that these financial entities can prosper (they will definitely charge you interest to borrow this money that you are lending them so that they can lend it back to you.).
The costs to the American public, no matter what terms mathematically you apply to it, is phenomenal. It would seem to me that if the desired outcome was to get money flowing again and the taxpayers were going to foot the bill anyway why not create a new agency that would handle projects that would put the unemployed to work like during the Great Depression.
Since we have highly skilled individuals that are out of work (they must be highly skilled or how else could they afford all those expensive homes), and there are many possible projects like the mag lev trains mentioned above, why not use the money for those purposes.
I may be totally off base, but I just think there might be a better solution to our currect problems than to give Sagans and Sagans of dollars to the greedy, and provide that money to worthwhile tasks and the needy.
It’s wasn’t a $700 Billion bailout bill, it was an $850 billion bailout bill. The media steadfastly clings to the 700 number
Oh..'ell, they should have just given a million dollars to every affected family to handle this problem.
I'm a guy working 2 jobs making $11 at one 40 hour a week and $7.25 at the other working about 20 hours a week, and I'm barely making it. If you look back about 10 years ago fuel was about $1.00/gallon with the min. wage at $5.25/hr, and now the min. wage is $6.55/hr with the fuel costs soaring over $3 per gallon. Maybe it wouldn't be that bad of an idea to give a little bit of the Bailout money for some of us that NEED bailed out. For instatnce maybe give every household a $100 a week for groceries and other necessities. I also can't help but mention how estatic Mr. Paulson looked when the Bill passed. I think he used to work for one of those big companies that got bailed out.
Why does the space program always take the heat? At least the 100B provided AMERICAN jobs for our graduates, trades, and supplying companies for about 10 years.

Better, compare to the Iraq war which has cost around 1.2T (trillion) and helped only a few military related companies and of course the Iraq infrastructure.
I would like to see a list of those in Congress who had the unmitigated gall to include "PORK" projects to a bill that has so many serious consequences.  They just couldn't get away from their old spend -spend - spend mentality.  If we knew who they were they surely wouldn't be seen around Washington come next election season.  Which is probably why we will never know who was responsible.
We have something called a Constitution, I wonder if teh people in DC have any idea where it is or how to read it. This government meddling in the economy is not within the proper authority of the US Faderal government. Thier chioce to artifically lower borrowing costs is at the heart of the current situation and people want the government to get MORE involved. Good grief.
as a compromise to the shafted tax payers funding the bail out, prosecute & Jail the guilty greedy who created the crisis.
Give the investors a break or the government?
Ok, in effect WE the tax payers would be buying home loans that were made under crazy conditions. After WE buy them, WE are going to need to sell them? Sell them to who? They will have to be discounted and sold at surplus? Who is going to buy them, probably the very banks that got bailed out or "International banking".
It seems to me that the banks could re-write those notes so that the home owners DON'T lose them, and sadly for the banks, they break even. Let them work to fix the problem, not just walk away from it.
I agree entirely with the idea that IF we had that kind of money to throw around that there are alot better things to spend it on. Energy, health care, infrastucture, education ... all the things that keep getting cut so that we can expend our resources on the pet projects and dead ended quests dreamed up by people who are so privilaged that they have never known hunger, homelessness, illness, under or un-employment. Spoiled people who can't see how any of us natural born americans could suffer from the above, "just borrow the money from your family".
Its time they learn to live on $10 an hour with no health care and to be told that their incomes are too high for critical assistance.
That is the "American Reality" those who experience the "American Dream" are limited to the upper crust and those who's race or country of origin qualifys them for income under "entitlements" that are twice the income level of the workers that pay for them.
We need to elect common people to government offices and quit trying to get the elite to handle our limited resources with common conservative horse sense, they can't think that way.

"Joe 6-pack for president!"

Here is another way to look at it.

Every state and D.C. would each have 16 stacks of dollars that reach all the way into space (62 miles)
Explaining the meaning of billions and trillions is simply a waste of time. No one will ever understand the meaning of $700 billion.

But anyone can understand that this is about $3k per person.
I don't normally consider myself a conspiracy theorist but I think there's no coincidence that the financial bailout roughly equates to the total cost of the war in Iraq.

How else could the American government afford such a costly investment in the war effort to increase their influence of the oil flows in the Gulf region? Basically they took it out of the mortages of the American public.

Wouldn't it be great if all that money was spent on cooperative space exploration efforts, that benefits all mankind!
We could have provided every American a great START.  By provided every American a house, mortgage free once they turned 18.  Not a great house, but a house.  There would likely be enough left over to provide college for everyone 18 - 24.

Great job Bush.  Do not forget that McCain was one of the primary figures in the 1990's Saving and Loan scandle, but excaped prosecution.
Sorry Zod, they are doing what they always do when they panic, spend our money. If this is their best, then we need to replace them as soon as their terms expire. Maybe with someone concerned more about the  country as a whole and not the corporations which funded their campaigns.

Remember the definition of insanity:Doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results each time.

A majority of the population is therefore insane. Voting for the same Republican & Democratic candidates (even if they are different people each time) year after year but expecting different results.

It's time for a sanity check. Vote these people out of office in November, that will make your voice heard.
What's the conversion rate of Apollos to WalMarts?  And Europe doesn't do Apollos.  What's a Beagle worth?
I wonder how much interest the Chinese will be charging us on the $810 billion we're borrowing from them for the bailout? People talk about the govt. making a profit in the long run but have they subtracted out the cost to borrow when we're already deeply in debt?
"On a somewhat related topic...in 1984/5 one could purchase a ticket to space from Society Expeditions Project Space Voyage, for the sum total of $52,000...only $5000 down.
Today, Branson's proposed ticket keeps varying...but, it seems to be around $250K.
That's only 5 times the 25 year ago amount...a bargain, eh?"

Of course, Society Expeditions planned to sell rides on a vehicle that never materailzed (and sadly so, I liked the Phoenix SSTO*, and still hope that something like it may yet happen), wheras Virgin Galactic is selling rides on a vecicle that is actually under construction (SS2), and whose basic technologies have already been demonstrated (SS1).

So Steve, is it better to have $52k of nothing, or $250k of something?

* http://www.1000planets.com/papers/phoenix-history.pdf

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Phoenix%22%2B%22ssto%22&aq=f&oq=



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