ABOUT COSMIC LOG

Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

Check out Boyle's biography or send a message to Cosmic Log via cosmiclog@msnbc.com.



Supercollider = superstar

Posted: Monday, September 22, 2008 6:30 PM by Alan Boyle


CERN
The Compact Muon Solenoid, shown here in a head-on view during construction,
is the Large Hadron Collider's most massive detector.

Like most multibillion-dollar projects, Europe's Large Hadron Collider is having some problems getting started. But lack of interest is definitely not one of those problems. By some accounts, a billion TV viewers tuned in for last week's startup of the LHC. For a day at least, the world's biggest atom-smasher made a bigger celebrity splash than Britney Spears and Amy Winehouse combined.

And that's just the start: The Hollywood Reporter says ABC is close to a deal to turn a science-fiction tale about the Large Hadron Collider into a TV pilot.

We've already mentioned the Robert J. Sawyer novel "Flashforward" as one of our doomsday dozen: The plot begins with a run at the LHC that is aimed at detecting the Higgs boson, but instead causes everyone on earth to black out for two minutes.

During the blackout, everyone experiences what their life is like 21 years later (unless, of course, they've died between now and then). But back on the real world, planes fall from the sky because pilots (and passengers) go unconscious. Others are killed in auto accidents, and still others die simply because they were walking down the stairs when they went blank.

The story blends present-day tragedies, future-day detective stories and the classic philosophical question over changing destiny. It's just the thing for the network that airs "Lost."

Next year, the LHC could conceivably be on the big screen as well, playing a bit part in the movie based on Dan Brown's "Angels and Demons." But it sounds as if you'd have to look fast: The filmmakers did spend some time at the giant ATLAS detector, but only to capture the imagery for a computer-generated rendition of the device that might appear as if it's on the other side of a lab window.

Of course, no one in his or her right mind would stand next to a working particle collider separated by a mere pane of glass - the radiation risk would be too great.

Speaking of risk, Studio 360 offers an encore presentation of its podcasts about the Large Hadron Collider - including "Telford," a short story by Lydia Millet that starts with the creation of a black hole in captivity at the LHC.

In the real world, the discussion over subatomic black holes is more subdued than it was before startup. Caltech physicist Sean Carroll discusses why we shouldn't be scared in the Cosmic Variance Weblog (and a Bloggingheads joint appearance with his spousal unit, science writer Jennifer Ouellette). Shahn Majid, a math professor at Queen Mary University of London, stirs the pot with a back-and-forth discussion of the doomsday scenarios.

The legal discussion may heat up again sometime in the next few weeks, when a federal judge in Hawaii rules on the federal government's request to have a doomsday lawsuit thrown out. But in the meantime, take the opportunity to review our special report on the LHC - and check out the top 8 LHC videos as selected by Wired.com.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

and to think there isn't enough mortal fear for the bloggers of this site receiving emails from 10 year olds who fear for their lives a "family based" entertainment company has to go and create an "end of the world movie about it for both TV and the big screen"

I just hope cooler minds prevail and this thing does something great for humanity and shuts its nay sayers up.

How dangerous is that supercollider??.  What could be the worst scenario for humanity??.  I am just very curious about it.

Thank you.  Julio
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.  IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR A PARTICLE COLLIDER TO DESTROY THE EARTH.  IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR A NUCLEAR REACTOR TO EXPLODE LIKE AN ATOMIC BOMB.  Lawyers exploit this collective stupidity so we are now choking in pollution, have global warming and $4.00 a gallon gasoline.  If you are really worried by the LHC, I
have a suggestion for you:  Go build yourself a nice pyramid at an "energy nexus", get inside with your like minded friends, get out your crystals to talk with the flying saucer inside the comet and then be good boys and girls and drink your koolaid.  And, by the way, invite as many lawyers as you can.
There is simply no need for yet another accelerator disaster movie as there are already enough of these out there - ranging from bad to bizarre. And including the BBC's "End Day," which for reasons unknown to me is called a "docu-drama". Full of in-jokes, alright, but probably just scary for the uninitiated. Now if you really want an LHC disaster flick, here is a pretty good - and short! - one ...
What was that? Suppercollider will turn earth into a superstar?
With all this money being invested, has anyone ever tried just smashing the heck out of something with a hammer to see what happens on the sub-atomic level?
Not has anyone ever smashed anything with a hammer...has anyone ever stopped to look at the results?
Maybe that's how the Ancients did some of those inexplicable things we marvel over today.
Picture as many Humans with hammers as there were building Pyramids and transporting Easter Island Heads. It would have been pretty impressive...who knows what they may have accomplished on some currently unknown or misunderstood sub-atomic level.
Sounds a little silly...but imagine what all the discussion RE Large Hadron would have sounded like to the old Folks.
While you are worrying, remember...nobody knew what would happen after the first hammer blow, either!
Give it a thought, eh?
"the world's biggest atom-smasher"

It is NOT an atom-smasher; it is a hadron smasher!
The worse case scenario is that it produces no useful results.
It's just a cosmic sized atom bomb, nothin to fear. after all. besides what are they gonna tell you anyways. Opps, i blew up the milky way, lets see if we can't get it right a few galaxay'es over. lol. On the other hand if they do find the "god particle" and can controll it. then they could create all kinds of new technology. armory {carbon fiber i believe was made by a smaller version of this} weapons, fibers nano suits ect. all kinds of neet things.  
The question is, what is the BEST that the supercolider can bring to the world?
Clean and cheap energy source, discarding oil fuels?
New medical appliations, and cures that are imposibles today?
New technologies that makes easier our lives?
Why not to dream?
Supposedly people believe it could create and maintain some kind of mini black hole or something along those lines (I'm no physicist though)

from wikipedia
"experiments have the potential to create low velocity micro black holes that could grow in mass or release dangerous radiation leading to doomsday scenarios, such as the destruction of the Earth.[4][18] Other claimed potential risks include the creation of theoretical particles called strangelets, magnetic monopoles and vacuum bubbles.[4][18]"

Not exactly a scholarly article but most of the worries appear to be unfounded.
It's a wonderful device!
Man's reach must always exceed his grasp,
Or what is a hell for?
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.  IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR A PARTICLE COLLIDER TO DESTROY THE EARTH.  IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR A NUCLEAR REACTOR TO EXPLODE LIKE AN ATOMIC BOMB."
I dont think id use "never" in such an unknown... Remeber a long time ago the world was flat? and what about the earth being the center of the universe?? remember that one? people were burned at the stake for mentioning otherwise.
I would like to point out that even if the supercollider were to destroy the earth it would happen so quickly that no one would ever know and thus could not be immoral because it would never hurt anyone, we simply would not exist to think about it. Thus i believe that in the interest of possibly figuring out important life questions, what the hell.
You think the money could have been better spent on saving the planet. I don't know why every blockbuster movie has to destroy a city like New York on London. It may be good for late night TV but it gets old after a while. So what do people do they try to make it as real as possable. If you're not worried about the price of oil, foreclosures, world hunger, global warming or global war. Then maybe you can take the time now to worry about a collider that may not give you the chance to put your head between your legs to kiss your ass goodbye. Seriously folks lets try to fix ourselves first and the planet before we try to figure out how to remove the moat out of God's eye or try to creat a new universere by destroying this one. The money can be better spent elsewhere. Maybe the people makeing this thing and movies about them can get a rain check to the resurection.
The US science community is very pragmatic.  It's possible a supercolider isn't the way to isolate dark matter.  But, it's been fun watching the Europeans build an underground museum.
It's not dangerous, but we never did it before... what's this? How can you know nothin' happens if never anybody tried this before, reminds me slightly of Chernobyl!
people who are against LHC reminds me of Vatican which opposed and persecuted Galileo and any scientific idea . they use scare tactics, if it fails, they even excommunicate scientists. thank goodness, modern day Vatican wannabes cant burn people alive anymore.
So, what's the difference between "spouse" and "spousal unit"?

Out of Touch
Isamu wrote, "The worse case scenario is that it produces no useful results."  This doens't make for a very exciting plotline.  The results come in, a long hair looks them over, turns to his colleagues and says, "Absolutely nothing new."  The woman in the middle screams as the camera zooms in to extreme close up.
But even nothing will be something.  It will eliminate some possibilities and help to refine theory.

Dale Bills,
Everybody knows the spaceship is in the tail of the comet.  It uses it like a cloak.  And inviting the lawyers, what a sweet idea.  Most of the time they don't get invited to functions because so many people don't like them.
I just saw the movie "Burn after reading". One of the characters has a line in the movie about the "league of morons". Reading these comments just reminded me of that movie.
You know I've been following this series for... well since they showed it here. Ive done my research ive constulted my people. and I just dont understand how humanity can be so much like a herd of sheep. QUICK ITS A WOLF RUN!!!!!!
The worst thing that could possibly happen is if this machine were to accidently create a black hole. Even one the size of an atom could wipe out everything. Go find the theory about the Tunguska Event that mentions black holes. Then you will see what I mean.
Good or Bad, Bring it on.
I absolutely agree with KT.  Making a TV series about the LHC that scares people will only impede the progress of science.  Nothing good can come of this.  Someone please stop ABC from making this mistake.
Trust Hollywood to foul up something good like the LHC.  I certainly won't waste a second watching any garbage from Hollywood when the truth of the real workings of the LHC is far more interesting and intelligent.  I sure hope they get the LHC repaired quickly so that we can see what shakes out.
I am so SICK of the "money could be better spent" argument.  When we stop wondering and experimenting, we might as well go back to the caves.  Let's carry this argument to its illogical extreme.  Here we have Harry the Caveman about to invent the wheel, but his buddy Joe the Idiot says, "Don't waste your time with that wheel-thing!  The money could be better spent on new stick weapons."  Where would we be if, every time someone was about to do something new, some short-sighted doubter talked him out of it?  I suspect we would still be hiding in caves at night afraid of the world.  Any of you Doubting Thomas's want to go back to that?  The Universe is full of wonders.  I (for one) want to seek them out and find out about them.  I hope we NEVER stop seeking and wondering.
Ask the millions of starving, sick men, women and children if the Hadron Collider will save their lives and help them prosper and survive on this barbaric planet of technology we live on. ask yourself this: As a habitant of this planet what is our priorities to our fellow habitants?  
I think everyone should just get over it. If there's a black hole then sweet I wanna ride.
Another crazy question:  when the hadrons collide, do the monitoring scientists hear anything?  Is there a big crach, or a thunk, or something like that?
It reminds me of that thing they built in Contact that was supposed to transport you from one galaxy to another. I can only hope this instrument brings us something revolutionary, (like time travel), so we can move on with the future in a positive manner!
Chad from Illinois... Do you beleive everything you read?  There are cosmic occurances happening in our atmosphere every day, at much higher energy levels than the LHC.  Yet no black hole has ever been produced, and this is over millions of years.
So, why then, would the LHC miraculously produce such a doomsday event.

People are so silly...
People continue to say that they could have spent the money on world hunger, or some other humanitarian effort.  Nobody mentioned that when China spent MUCH more just getting ready for the olympics.
Judging from the comments on this article, it won't take much for ABC to scare the bejeebus out of people about particle colliders.
Just an observation... Is the LHC not the equivalent of smashing two airplanes into each other then sift through the pieces and try to figure out how to build one?
I think a TV series about stellar object SCP06F6 would be very interesting and could possibily bring "X-Files" back.
RE $$$ better spent to cure starvation,etc.
If not for $$$ used on and generated by such efforts in the past, there'd be no us, and nobody would have to worry about starvation.
And...just as a kicker...it ain't bein' spent...spent is like buying a beer.
If the alotted $$$ don't go to Hadron, etc...it don't exist.
Apples and Oranges, Kids...dig up J.K. Galbreath (sic)...it's a very simple explanation.
Guns and Butter, etc...you'll feel less guilty.
Human guilt ain't savin' yer sorry butts...bleating ain't either.

Discovering and perhaps learning about hadrons certainly appears to be an interesting thing to do, but I think that discovering how gravity works is a lot more FUN, so perhaps one of these circular things will do it . . .

What is IT?

I have a theory, which is based solely on a combination of common sense and the general outline of most third-year college Physics textbooks, where the sequence is Mechanics (gravity), Electricity, Magnetism, and Light . . .

Curiously, the middle two form a pair (electromagnetism) where one is able to generate the other, which is pretty cool, really . . .

Oddly, nobody has connected the dots with respect to the other two (gravity and light), although this is such a simple thing to do, and there already are plenty of clues (for example, gravity bends light, which we know from the "red shift" phenomenon that Einstein predicted so accurately, and we know that the affect of gravity travels at the speed of light, which we know due to strange measurements which confirm that the gravitational affects of launching a rocket from the Earth arrive at the moon in the amount of time it takes light to travel from the Earth to the moon, which has been known at least since the late 1970s, so the experimental measurements must have been done earlier) . . .

So, my theory is that there will continue to be problems with these big circular things so long as fiber optics are used, and sooner or later one of them will do the unexpected, such as for example transforming into a gravity generator for just long enough to propel something into orbit or beyond . . .

So, perhaps the true danger (or wisdom, depending on ones perspective) of the Large Hadron Collider is that IT actually will generate sufficient gravity waves to propel France and Switzerland into the cosmos, which could be pretty cool, provided you are not in France or Switzerland at the time of the EVENT . . .

And another strange bit of information is that the TOP SECRET government physicists who advise Congress already know this, which is the real reason that funding for the Super Collider was halted . . .

Thanks!
 
"How dangerous is that supercollider??.  What could be the worst scenario for humanity??.  I am just very curious about it."


The worst scenario would be if a mob descends on the lab with pitchforks and torches...

In the meantime, consider this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM&feature=related
Bruce Forbes,
Do you oppose all progress?  I guess my question is this, if it were up to you would you have stopped previouse experiments in order to temporarily feed the poor then?  Bear in mind that those experiments have led to such things as farming advances that have allowed those poor people to be fed continuously.  If you wouldn't have hamstrung the feeding efforts then do you just want to do it now?  Are we at a good enough state for you now?  I've got to give you, there are no guarantees that these experiments will make things better for the hungry and poor.  But do you really want to prevent the possibility of advances in farming, medicine, preservation etc. that could help these people for centuries just to be sure to send food over, not that it will necessarily get to who needs it?  I'll bet you have no retirement plan.
Paul,
That kind of works.  It works for NTSB.  I hope it works at least that well here.
Well Alan, I guess you are going to have to put the collider story on hold until next spring. So all those people out there with their heads buried in the sand can now breath again.  The only black holes we need ponder now are these: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/blackhole/
Paul from GA

Smashing two planes together? Your kidding right?

This project consist of a circular tunnel 17 miles long and 300 feet below the ground. Inside this tunnel is a large tube that carries particles around it. With the help of super magnets, the particles are accelerated to 11,000 laps per second (that's pretty damn fast). Then particles that are moving in opposite directions are steered into each other. Boom!!!

Just though you might like to know what they are doing. Some people (why spend $$$ people, etc.) don't read the articles or try to comprehend what is trying to be accomplished, they just make comments to get others stirred up. It works too.

Take care my SEC neighbor.
The LHC demonstrates the futility of humans who believe they are smart enough to understand the physics of creation (for the religious), or the big bang (for the non-religious).  Whether one believes in the Creator or not, it's impossible for even a collective of the smartest human minds to comprehend.  Given a chance for all of the smartest physicists on the planet to sit down with the Creator for an abstract overview, they would collectively not live long enough to hear all of the abstract overview, let alone understand it.  So, this also means that absolutely none of the scientists who work at the LHC have even the slightest clue as to what they are really doing.  However, they appear to be smarter than the rest of the world population, which hasn't the clout to tell them to keep their greedy paws off of our tax dollars.  In other words, they hide behind the deception of bedazzlement.  After all, who can prove them wrong but the "Creator"?
This thing will probably eliminate mankind by what native americans believe so get ready it's almost 2012.They should spend all that money on something that will do us good...
how many families will this feed?

[ALAN ADDS: It's worth noting that the effort to build the collider, operate it and conduct experiments has allowed the scientists, engineers, builders, administrators and suppliers (as well as businesspeople in their communities) to feed their families.]
It always amazes me at how those, who know nothing about science, seem to know exactly what's it's endeavors will bring.

What most people seem to foget is that the LHC is not the first collider ever made, it's just the largest one.  We have years and years of experience with colliders and what they can do.  Because LHC will operate at higher energies, the physics and math predict the possibilities of what we will see.

It is absolutely true that we *may* see microscopic black holes created.  It is absolutely false that they could destroy (or even harm) anything.  How do we know that?  We have math and physics as proven tools to use!

Any microscopic black hole that were to be created would, number one: have microscopic energy and number two: evaporate almost instantly.

What most people are not aware of is that black holes evaporate because they actually give off radiation.  When they give off more energy than they have sucked in, they are gone.  A microscopic black hole would have such little gravitational force that it wouldn't be able to attract anything to "swallow" because the nearest particles of any considerable mass would be feet away from it.  And, at the sub-atomic level, feet might as well be light-years.  With nothing to feed on and such little energy, they'd be gone in a flash.  This is not speculation, it's fact based on math.
As a rule, man's a fool.
When it's hot, he want's it cool.
When it's cool, he want's it hot.
Allways wanting what is not.


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=1433562

Latest Tech & Science News

Syndicate This Site

Add Cosmic Log to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google