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Planet debate gets greater

Posted: Friday, September 19, 2008 7:12 PM by Alan Boyle


A. Feild / STScI / NASA / ESA
An artist's conception shows the dwarf planet Haumea
and its two moons, Hi'iaka and Namaka.

So just how many planets are there in our solar system anyway? Eight? Nine? Thirteen? Or thousands? Far from settling the question, the "Great Planet Debate" has revealed just how complex and interesting the question is.

The planethood question got more interesting this week with the naming of yet another dwarf planet, Haumea. It's traditional to name planets after mythological deities - and Haumea, the Hawaiian goddess of childbirth and fertility, follows that formula.

The football-shaped world was found by Caltech astronomer Michael Brown just after Christmas 2004 (which prompted its initial, unofficial nickname: "Santa"). Haumea's discovery was shrouded in a scientific controversy that Brown recaps in his Weblog. At the time, controversy surrounded its planetary status as well, because it added to a growing class of objects in the same general class as Pluto. Astronomers surmised that hundreds of Pluto-scale objects may lurk on the icy rim of the solar system's disk, known as the Kuiper Belt.

The controversy came to a head in 2005 when Brown's team found the object now known as Eris - a world like Pluto, only bigger and farther out. All this led the International Astronomical Union to agonize over where to draw the line on planethood. In 2006, the IAU came up with a definition aimed at putting the solar system's eight biggest planets in one class, and Pluto in a different class with Eris and other dwarf planets or "plutoids."

The Great Planet Debate has been simmering ever since. In August, astronomers held a teach-in on the subject at Johns Hopkins University's Applied Physics Laboratory, which is the base of operations for NASA's New Horizons mission to Pluto. One of the purposes of the meeting was to see how teachers were handling the planethood question.

Scientist (and parent) sees 'teaching moment'
The education angle literally hit home for planetary scientist Alan Stern - and not just because he's the principal scientific investigator for New Horizons.

"My own son was told by a teacher that an answer was wrong on a test about Pluto," Stern told me last week. According to the test, the "right" answer for the number of planets in the solar system was eight - but Stern said that August's installment of the Great Planet Debate proved that the question was still up for grabs, even among educators.

"It was clear at the end of the two and a half days that there was no consensus," he said. "We're in transition. I think that's a teaching moment."

Stern has long argued that the IAU's definition of planethood provided more confusion than clarification. "There's a lot of unhappiness with the IAU's solution," he said. "I didn't hear anybody say, 'Oh, I think it's the cat's meow.'"

He maintains that it's wrong to think about the solar system as if there were a sharp division between eight planets and everything else. Even dwarf planets are still planets - and in Stern's mind, they may be more representative of the planetary spectrum than the eight biggies.

"It's the most populous class of planets in the solar system," Stern said. "Pluto's no longer the misfit."

There's something about Haumea
The fact that the IAU is giving names to dwarf planets - Pluto, Eris, Ceres, Makemake and now Haumea - shouldn't make a difference in the debate, Stern said. In fact, it totally makes sense. "From our perspective, these are planets. They deserve names," he said.

Stern has often compared the definition of planets with the definition of rivers: Sure, there might be six great rivers in the world ... or are there 14? In any case, that doesn't mean you have to set the Maquoketa River or thousands of other streams apart as "dwarf rivers." Every river, great or small, has its own special appeal - and it's the same with planets.

In fact, Haumea may be one of the most endearing little planets out there: Caltech's Brown has said it's his "favorite object in the solar system," in part because of its fast, end-over-end spin, the elongated shape it has as a result, and also because of its tightly orbiting satellites (which have been named Hi'iaka and Namaka, after two of the goddess Haumea's children). Brown said additional bits of ice and rock were apparently struck off Haumea in a cosmic collision long ago and are now circling the sun in their own orbits.

New Horizons gets a transplant ... and Twitter!
Oodles of such oddities may well come to light when the New Horizons spacecraft makes its way through the Kuiper Belt, starting in seven years. Last week, the probe underwent a successful "brain transplant" that upgraded the onboard software. It's now more than a billion miles from Earth, flying toward Pluto at a rate of about a million miles a day.

You can keep up with the mission's progress via Twitter or Facebook. (In the wake of Phoenix Mars Lander's Twitter success, it seems as if every space mission nowadays is getting into social networking.)

New Horizons' team will be checking out the spacecraft's instruments over the next couple of months, and then put the probe back to sleep for another months-long nap. The first "dress rehearsal" for the Pluto flyby will be conducted next year, but there's still a long way to go before showtime in 2015.

Will the planethood debate be settled by that time? Stern won't be surprised if it isn't. After all, it took decades for scientists to settle the controversy over continental drift - and some are still going back and forth over the implications of climate change and evolutionary biology.

"This is not atypical," Stern said. "It's just one of the most visible topics on the table right now."

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Why all the fuss? The outer solar system (Oort cloud and Kuiper belt) are full of such bodies like planetessimals and comets and such. Relax. I am somewhat concerned about what will happen in Dec. 2012, when the sun and solar system cross over the galactic 'equator' into the Northern hemisphere of the Milky Way Galaxy.
Im not against having a scientific way of identifying and understanding things but I think that none of the gibberish is going to be of any consiquence untill we begin mastering the art of intergalactic travel.
What will happen if we ever find an earthsize or larger body out there, at a great distance, say a couple hundred AU.  Suppose such a body is a little smaller than Mercury?  Where do we draw the line?

Mike Witkoski
Enola PA USA
mwitkoski@capitalareahomes.com
Stern's take on the IAU's definition of planethood is compelling.  As an armchair astronomer, I've never read or heard such an eloquent (and pithy) discussion of the matter.
The teacher was right; there are only eight planets... even if its still up for debate, the IAU has officially down graded pluto to a dwarf planet, even if it is temporarily. I personally believe that it should be a dwarf planet based on the fact that it has not cleared its orbit of major debris.
There are seven Planets. Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn. There are two others known as Rahu and Ketu, which moves in anti direction
How many Blades of grass are on my front lawn?

How many Sea Shells are on Miami Beach as opposed to Daytona Beach???

How many Countries do we have named today in the World? How many Counties did we have named 1000 years ago????? How many Countries will there be in 400 years more???????

I kind of agree with the new definition (not the dwarf part, but the formal planets part) from Pluto and beyond the're just orbital oddities.
Just find us some earth like planets  that we can settle on not some dirty iceburg in space.  The astronomical community really has a lot of looking to do.
Some people have too much time on their hands
without any idea what to do. If it orbits a sun
it is a planet, large or small. If it orbits a
planet it is a moon. What's wrong with that?
Jon, I agree with you. The phrase "until we begin mastering the art of intergalactic travel" just made me laugh though.
I had the pleasure of taking an astronomy class taught by Dr. Clyde Tambaugh at New Mexico State U. in the early 80s. He would be laughing at the indecision of today's astronomers. His goal was the pursuit of the unknown and instilling the joy of discovery in his students. It worked for me. And now I pass it on to my middle school students.
Why all the fuss, indeed Dennis. Why not refer to the "9 traditional planets" if one wishes, or refer to each body with its name and measurements? If one must give them a label, "solar system objects" applies to anything inside the heliopause, and they can be classed as gas bodies, rock bodies or ice bodies. The argument here is one of scale in one or more measures, and any such argument is someone's slippery slope.
Hey all you astro-physicists and astronomers, let's be fair about this. There are many satellites that would qualify as planets. If you call Mercury a planet then how about the Moon. It has a diameter only slightly less than Mercury's 3,600 miles. The Moon's diameter is 2,160 miles.  There are also many other satellites orbiting Jupiter, Saturn, and Uranus that could also be categorized as being planets.  How about Titan, the moon of Uranus with a diameter of 5000 km?  And Gannymede and Callisto, both of which are larger than Mercury?
In Dec 2012 i.e. after 4 years of McCain and Palin Adminsistration the mother earth will anyways be closer to nemesis...
Why not call the Earth and it's "nearer" neighbors, ending with Neptune, the "Near Planets" and call all the rest within the sun's sphere of influence the "Far Planets?" That way, they all get to be called "planets" (based upon criteria already established before this Plutino-Schmeeno stuff.) Geez, you geeks: K.I.S.S. !
I attended the Great Planet Debate, and one of the things Stern and others emphasized is that the number of planets in our solar system is not important.  It is likely to keep changing as we make new discoveries--the same way the number of known exoplanets keeps increasing. The worst thing about the IAU definition is that it states that dwarf planets are not planets at all, which makes no linguistic sense. Also, according to the IAU definition, the exact same object can be a planet in one location and not a planet in another. For example, Earth would not be considered a planet if it were in Pluto's orbit.  How can we classify an object solely by where it is while ignoring what it is?

What I find especially disturbing is when students like Stern's son are told they are wrong when they include Pluto (or any other dwarf planets) as planets.  This is an authoritarian style in which children are taught what to think rather than how to think. We do them a great disservice by giving them only one side of a debate and presenting it as reality. I'm happy to report that in some cases, students had lowered grades reversed after their teachers were made aware that there are many professional astronomers who do not agree with the IAU decision.

I do have one question though. Haumea is egg-shaped rather than round. Is it still considered to be in hydrostatic equilibrium? If its being in hydrostatic equilibrium--a requirement for an object's designation as a dwarf planet--is in question, then why was it given dwarf planet status? Was that decision made prematurely?

[ALAN ADDS: Hi, Laurel, I've noticed your comments on Mike Brown's blog ... From what I've read, Haumea is considered to be in hydrostatic equilibrium. It's supposedly spinning so fast that it bows out to create that egg/pumpkin/football shape. It's been compared to a spinning water balloon, which would be similarly bowed out ... until it goes splat.]
Why don't we just go ahead and say if you can see it with the naked eye,and it's not the sun, moon or stars, it's a planet.  This should fit right in with teaching other archaic ideas in school.

????Ich bin etwas besorgt darüber, was geschehen wird, in Dezember 2012, wenn die Sonne und Sonnensystem Kreuz über dem galaktischen "Äquator" in der nördlichen Hemisphäre der Milchstraße.????

[ALAN ADDS: Translation from German:]

I am somwhat concerned about what will happen in December 2012 when the sun and solar system cross over the galactic equator into the northern hemisphere of the Milky Way.
[ALAN AGAIN: These Web sites address the "galactic equator" urban legend:]
Is "planet" to be a generic or scientific term?  "River" is not a scientific term; the river  analogy needs clarification.  The USGS website states that all “linear flowing bodies of water” are classified as streams in the Geographic Names Information System (GNIS). Some of the generic terms that fit this are creeks and rivers. You might claim a creek must flow into a river, but such hierarchies do not exist. In Northern Virginia, Little River flows into Goose Creek.
Stern's river analogy was pretty good. I think he's dead on about the planet debate. I like the of having classes of planets. Gas Giants, Rocky planets, and Icy planets. All planets, and everybody is happy!!
I disagree with Stern. Objects like Pluto are different from the 8 regular planets. It's not just size, as with rivers. Their history and formation is different. That said, the IAU chose very poor nomenclature. Any reasonable person would deduce that a "dwarf planet" is a type of planet. One option would be to call them planetoids. Another option would be to call them all planets, but make three classes of planets: dwarf planets, terrestrial planets and gas giants.
The naming-mess has been created because the astronomical community forgot to figure out whether we're "lumping" or "splitting" as a first step. Then we can decide on definition of words like Planet. Although it would be a good idea to actually define our labels, for now why don't we just default to 8 "planets" with non-eccentric orbits, and a bunch of "kuipers" with eccentric orbits? After all, it's a semantic arguement----nature is a continuum.
A minor correction (no pun intended)...the correct term for a dwarf planet orbiting in the Kuiper Belt is "plutoid", not "plutino".  A plutino is any Trans-Neptunian object (dwarf planet, plutoid, or other) that is in a 2:3 resonance orbit with Neptune.

[ALAN ADDS: Yes, you're quite right ... plutino is the correct term, and I've made the correction above. Thanks for setting me straight, Justin.]
Why after so many years does Pluto be removed from the list of planets in our solar system is just stupid after all the millions of textbooks,reading books and etc. Its just another form of discrimation that someone has created for themselves. Our solar system has 9 planets, and I will fight the system that tries to punish my children for having the wrong answer.
I think the whole debate is not based on a real scientific need for definition anymore but more on the rubbing of Ph.D. egos together, which isn't science. It is most common in astronomy and archeology, the two sciences that affect human perceptions of the species the most. If we were a space-faring species, using uninhabited lumps to mine resources, we wouldn't care if it was a "planet" or a "zopblorg".  Silly.  When science can't sit down and settle something like this within a few years, you know it's egos running the show, not science.
Jon Brophy -- if you think this article is full of "gibberish" then when we do "master the art of intergalactic travel" (it's an art, not a scientific matter?!?), you will hardly understand any of that!
Remember that the eight "biggies" fall into two classes -- the rocky or "terrestrial" planets (Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars); and the four giants -- gas giants Jupiter and Saturn, and ice giants Uranus and Neptune.
As often as science imitates fiction, I think it would be appropriate to continue the tradition. Many SF novels in various genres class planets by letter. Each letter describes the general type of planet. For example, in the TREK genre, Earth would be a Class M planet, signifying it is habitable with an oxy-nitrogen atmosphere and a mass producing a 9.8m/s/s gravity. This type nomenclature would go a long way in cooling tempers about what is a planet.  And help kids in school keep it straight as well.

For those who would decry the idea as juvenile, consider that outside of academia, SF has the highest number of contributors possessing masters and doctorates.  They also happen to possess imaginations.  And how many astronomers today got their interest started by reading SF? pay it forward!
The example of rivers, has precisely the same problem as with planets.  The terminology doesn't stop at rivers, it also has creeks, streams and other types of watercourses (some that don't even have water at times; wadi's for example.)  It is likely that some creeks are larger than some rivers even.  (Why is that so?  Poor categorization or just the ad hoc manner in they way rivers and other watercourses were named?)

In any event, it is reasonable to categorize and label things, just as it is important to recognize that the categories and labels are not absolute and eternal dividing points, just humanity's way of organizing information into meaningful groupings.  

It is always a question of drawing a line somewhere in the categories of physical objects.  As long as there is reasonable agreement on the factors that define how an object is included in a category, then it doesn't particularly matter in the big picture.
how much easier it would have been to just say...


regardless of size, if it has a defined atmosphere and its primary orbit circles a star it is a Planet... "as in, circles a star along an orbital plane".

of course their are more complex issues... but why create a new name...

whatever happen to a good ole "Planetoid"?

and I personally think if these larger than Pluto Bodies are housed in the outer Solar Shell and orbit the sun in a general way with all the other clutter found there... then they should be disqualified.. Pluto, though perhaps smaller.....

Has a defined atmosphere (seasonal), orbits a star and is separate from the other larger Solar Shell objects. And at times its orbit is closer to our sun than that of Neptune's... this cannot be said of other Kuiper Belt objects...

so call me old school... Pluto is a Planet.. I could careless what a butch of academics think or decide.. that don't have the ability to change my mind.
I’m not sure I understand all the arguments about Pluto being a planet. Decades ago it was determined to be the ninth planet. To me, that’s the way it is.
If you want to draw a line, let Pluto be that line. If it’s the same size or larger, it’s a Planet. If it’s smaller, it’s whatever.
If you can’t handle a hundred Planets, the solution is so simple: quit building better telescopes.
One interesting point I had heard in this debate, and I apologize immensely to whoever said it for I cannot remember their name, but they said a dwarf planet should be considered like a person and a dwarf person. They may be smaller, but they are still people. Dwarf planets were tenacious enough to survive the birth of solar system and become round, or the case of Haumea roundish, and not become the moons of other larger planets. Though they haven't cleared their path, which is what the IAU wants a planet to do to be considered as such, if let's say the Earth was flung out into the asteroid belt in a freak accident, would it become a dwarf planet? If so, then it wouldn't fit the current idea of a planet and would be considered a minor body of the Solar System. As to whether or not they should be called Dwarf Planets is up for grabs. I believe they should in fact be considered in the same class of planets in one way or another.
Textbooks (and definitions of planets) reveal a basic flaw in our educational system: knowledge is not static.
You can see and experiment with Haumea and the other dwarf planets in Universe Sandbox, an interactive space simulator.

Explore the Orbit of Haumea:
http://universesandbox.com/
I say go ask Steven Hawkings. He is clearly the smartest man on the planet and is well informed on planetary issues.

Jiff
www.anonymize.us.tc
The argument concerning rivers is ridiculous.
We have rivers, creeks & streams, depending on it's size. In the case of the IAUs definition it makes things quite clear and easy to distinguish between a planet and a trans-neptunian object (dwarf planet) based on whether it is actually round due to gravity(size) and has it cleared it's orbit of debris and other similiar objects.
11 planets, as mentioned in holy quran.
i guess planet X was discovered , one more to find :)
I disagree with the author's take on the new separation between planets and dwarf planets.  I feel that adding specificity to definitions is an important part of science that will help future classification and nomenclature.  
Stern was actually one of the people who came up with the "eight uber-planets, each dominating its orbit" standard in 2000 and justified it with a lot of fancy math.  Now, as boss of a Pluto probe, he finds it convenient for his career to play to "PLUTO Iz A PLANET GODdAMNIT!!!1!!" crowd that can't handle the idea that not everything they learned in the second grade was actually sensible or true.  Whatever goodies accrue to a technocrat when he lands a robot on a "planet," Stern obviously doesn't want to miss out, no matter what all the other astronomers have to say about it.
Personally, I defer to the precedence of history where Ceres was first called a planet, and then as more objects similar to it, like Juno, Vesta and Pallas, it was understood they were something different and new, Asteroids.

Pluto is the Ceres of the Kuiper Belt.

Personally, I think ego and emotion are ruling this debate rather than science, but can you blame them, who wouldn't want to recognition of discovering a new planet. But should that drive science.

As for there still being a planet further out, I'm sure there is, one that actually follows the new definition. Or even a Brown Dwarf laying out there somewhere orbiting our sun. Look for that rather than make exceptions to the rule.

In the end though, be it one year or a hundred years, the truth will be revealed as we understand more, test the theories, and make more discoveries.

I think every one is over-reacting, and that is not science, it is a mob.

Honestly, this is turning into the abortion debate over when life actually begins, and I think it is tarnishing science.
Well, as we pass into the southern hemisphere of our galaxy as we have done before in the past, there will be widespread radiation exposure, and cell mutations. This has been a key step in evolution-and/or de-evolution. It's just that this time will be different. The very outter layers of our atmosphere will be weaker than ever before in part to project H.A.A.R.P. and others like it around the world. H.A.A.R.P. is in Alaska, V.P. candidate Palin is also from Alaska. So will you be ready for the flood? 2010-2012 r.i.p
Cool Kevin.Lets consider the Dwarf Planets like dwarf people! Then we can have Dwarf Planet tossing events!

The word planet means 'wanderer' and referred to any object seen to move against the sky except for the sun and the moon.

The need to classify the plutoids comes from some astronomers' OCD disorder gnashing with the general publics perception that anything that looks like a planet should be called a planet.

In this case that means anything made round by the force of its own gravity should be a 'planet' to the general public. Isnt this good enough for the astronomers? Yes it means you have to rewrite your textbooks because the number of planets went up. Yes , for you, it means change. Get with the program. The debate seems asenine to a large portion of  us.  
The purpose of science is to discover the facts of reality.  Whether we call Pluto a planet, an asteroid, an ice-cream cone, a Chevrolet, or a Democrat, or don't call it anything but "Pluto", the facts of reality are the same:  there's a body of such size, with such composition, in such orbit.  So why the wasted wind about the definition of "planet"?  It's the same kind of mindless fuzz as the grade-school question, "If a tree falls in the forest and no one hears, did it make a noise?"  In that case, everyone agrees what happened -- a tree fell, causing pressure waves to propagate in air.  The evil is, thaqt the unintelligent are fooled into thinking they're arguing about what happened in the woods, when really they agree on that and are only talking about the definition of a word.  The question in the case of Pluto is equally vacuous -- people think they're arguing about what's out there in space, when really there is no question what's out there, or even about its name (everyone agrees it's Pluto).  They're arguing only about the definition of a word, though many of them think they're discussing a fact of reality.  People whose brains work no better than that ought to be shut away in institutions.
There a 10 planets. Pluto and Eris are 9th and 10th respectively. Case closed.
If one of the classifications of being a planet is to have cleared everything out of its path, then no planet with an atmosphere and/or a moon is not a planet; this is because 1. The atmosphere of a planet is not technically a part of that planet, merely some gases released by the planet/whatever lives on it or grabbed at random by the gravity of said planet, and this means that, since the atmosphere of a planet surrounds that planet and therefore is inevitably in the planet's path, it has not been cleared from the planet's path; 2. It is extremely rare for a planet to have a moon that never crosses into a position that, if the moon suddenly became stationary, would be in the planet's path.
"Plutoids" sounds like a layman's term for hemorrhoids... which is what the IAU's decision is becoming for them.
Instead of attempting a comedic jibe at those who disagreed with their "definitive" position, they should have left the comedy to comedians... because the "joke" isn't funny anymore.  
Aw, c'mon. Simply grandfather Pluto's status as a planet. Be nice. Refer to everything else as asteroids, comets, moons, IAU objects, etc.
"Some people have too much time on their hands
without any idea what to do. If it orbits a sun
it is a planet, large or small. If it orbits a
planet it is a moon. What's wrong with that? "

That does not work.What about all the asteroids in the asteroid belt? Those have never been thought of as planets. Of course the real problem is,its not a good definition at all. Planets should be the nine bodies that have traditionally been called planets. Then astronomers should come up with a nice classification system to describe all the bodies that orbit the sun. Its even ok to use the word "planets" to describe some of them if that's whats chose. In such a system,"The Planets" or "A Planet" (with a capital "P") would refer to the nine bodies that were traditionally recognized as such. (much as the word god,with a lowercase g,referes to a deity suck as the Greek god Hermes,and God with an uppercase "G" refers to the Hebrew monotheistic god which).
  The problem is,if you try to make a definition of "planet" that makes sense on its own and is consistent with the previous definition you run into a lot of trouble. (and probably a lot more as we find bodies that orbit other stars.) Suddenly the definition becomes rather useless. We COULD define a planet as anything that orbits the sun. Then it would include all the planets,and the asteroids,which most people would agree are not planets. The problem is,that description is just too simplistic. I say that xyz is a planet,so what. We still no nothing about it. Virtually anything you find in our solar system is a planet,it orbits the sun.
One could make the argument that Jupiter, 250% more massive than everything else in the solar system combined (except the sun) is the only real planet and the rest is just debris. :)


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