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Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

Check out Boyle's biography or send a message to Cosmic Log via cosmiclog@msnbc.com.



Courts weigh doomsday claims

Posted: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 4:10 PM by Alan Boyle


J. Pequenão / CERN / ATLAS
This artist's conception simulates the particle tracks that could be left behind by
the creation and decay of a black hole in the Large Hadron Collider's ATLAS
detector. The researcher with a hardhat is shown only to give a sense of scale.

Critics who say the world's largest atom-smasher could destroy the world have brought their claims to courtrooms in Europe and the United States - and although the claims are getting further consideration, neither court will hold up next week's official startup of the Large Hadron Collider.

The main event took place today in Honolulu, where a federal judge is mulling over the federal government's request to throw out a civil lawsuit filed by retired nuclear safety officer Walter Wagner and Spanish science writer Luis Sancho.

Meanwhile, legal action is pending as well at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, France. Last week, the court agreed to review doomsday claims from a group of professors and students, primarily from Germany and Austria. However, the court rejected a call for the immediate halt of operations at the LHC.

What it's all about
In the U.S. as well as the European lawsuit, the plaintiffs claim that those involved in the particle collider's operation have not adequately addressed the idea that the LHC could create globe-gobbling microscopic black holes or other catastrophes such as matter-wrecking strangelets or magnetic monopoles. They're calling for further safety reviews to be conducted.

The defendants - including the U.S. Department of Energy as well as Europe's CERN particle-physics center - say such fears already have been knocked down in a series of safety reports. The reports, drawn up by leading researchers in high-energy physics, note that cosmic-ray collisions are many times more energetic and prevalent than the collisions expected at the LHC. If the LHC were capable of creating cosmic catastrophes, they would already have been seen many times over in the wider universe, even in the unlikeliest circumstances, the researchers say.

Past "big-bang machines" have faced similar legal challenges, but the worries are emerging anew because the LHC will smash protons together at energies seven times higher than the current world record, held by the Tevatron at Fermilab in Illinois.

Physicists hope to gain new insights into mysteries of the universe ranging from dark matter to supersymmetric particles. The main quarry is an as-yet-undetected subatomic particle called the Higgs boson, also known as the "God Particle." The Higgs boson is the only fundamental particle predicted by current theory that has not yet been found. If it does not exist, that would add weight to alternative theories that depend on extra dimensions of space-time.

Theorists say the LHC could create microscopic black holes - or, more accurately, subatomic knots of ultra-concentrated energy - only if there are extra dimensions. Current theory also dictates that these knots would unravel instantly. The LHC's critics take issue with that particular claim.

In any case, the collider won't be in a position to create any type of black hole for months. The scheduled Sept. 10 turn-on would circulate only one beam of protons around the LHC's 17-mile-round ring at low energy. The first low-energy collisions won't occur until at least a month from now, and the device won't achieve its top collision energy until next year. That's why the courts are not rushing to rule on the critics' claims.

What's happening in court
Both sides in the federal lawsuit contributed to a flurry of filings in the days before today's hearing in District Judge Helen Gillmor's Honolulu courtroom.

The federal government's attorneys, representing the Energy Department, wanted Gillmor to dismiss the suit or render a summary judgment against Wagner and Sancho - on the grounds that the suit's outcome won't affect operations at the European collider, and that the plaintiffs missed their deadlines for legal filings.

In response, the plaintiffs insisted that their challenge was timely and said the defendants' past assurances did not ease their concerns about the safety issues. They called for the case to continue toward trial, with a tentative date of June 2009 already scheduled.

In the next legal volley, Bruce Strauss, who was the Energy Department's associate program manager for the LHC construction project, took aim at Wagner's credentials as well as his arguments. Strauss wrote that assessing the LHC's safety would "require competency in the field of high-energy physics, not health physics or nuclear medicine." Strauss also questioned Wagner's claims about his role in research, citing recent searches of scientific literature.

Strauss said that the federal lawsuit would have no effect on LHC operations because the federal role in building the collider ended a while ago. He said federal funds were now slated to go only toward supporting research activities at the LHC, to the tune of $10 million a month.

On the safety issue, Strauss said CERN's recent report, which was reviewed by outside experts, covered all the realistic scenarios for out-of-control black holes as well as the other doomsday scenarios - and he pointed out that experts at the American Physical Society recently endorsed the report's conclusions. Two Nobel laureates (Sheldon Glashow and Frank Wilczek) as well as a prominent Harvard physicist (Richard Wilson) have also taken the government's side as friends of the court.

Wagner responded to the government's volley just before today's hearing with yet another round of documents. He contended that the LHC would search for strangelets, insisted that yet-to-be-published research "absolutely refutes" claims that the LHC is safe and complained about Strauss' "ad hominem" attacks - while adding a little hominem of his own. For example, Wagner said Strauss once was searching for evidence of magnetic monopoles himself and was "apparently rankled that my work was successful, while his was not."

If this sounds to you like a blizzard of documents, you're not alone. At today's hearing, Judge Gillmor took both sides to task for filing so many disjointed documents and for failing to follow the local rules of the court, Justice Department spokesman Andrew Ames told me. (I've left a phone message with Wagner to get his side of the story.)

Gillmor took the case under advisement and will decide whether or not to dismiss the case at a later, not-yet-determined time. If the case goes forward, the next step would be to consider the plaintiffs' requests for a preliminary injunction against LHC operations as well as for a summary judgment against CERN.

Will the judge weather yet another storm of paperwork? Maybe not. "She doesn't want any more filings without her permission," Ames told me.

Update for 6:50 p.m. ET Sept. 3: In the wake of Tuesday's 52-minute hearing, Judge Gillmor agreed with the federal government's claim that it is immune from any legal action based on European legal documents (specifically, the European Council's Precautionary Principle and the European Commission's Science and Society Action Plan).

She also denied the request to enter a friend-of-the-court brief on behalf of the three physicists because she received no legally admissible evidence (such as an affidavit) that the physicists were actually involved in the filing.

Update for 7:30 p.m. ET Sept. 6: The transcript of the Hawaii hearing, provided to me by Wagner, sheds more light on Judge Gillmor's thinking. No. 1 is that she's taking the case seriously. At one point in the proceedings she took Wagner to task for filing some documents after the deadline, but added this:

"I'm not going to strike your filings because, while it is difficult to make our way through all of these documents that are quasi-appropriate, the nature of the issue raised is too important for the court to strike them just as a matter of course."

Gillmor focused on the legal process rather than the minutiae of scientific theory: Was the Energy Department required to address the doomsday scenario in an environmental impact statement? Has the statute of limitations for that requirement expired, now that the federal money is finished spending money for LHC construction (but is still supporting U.S. researchers involved in LHC experiments)? How much should the federal government be held accountable for activities in Europe? Is the United States a partner or a mere observer at CERN?

In an occasionally tart exchange with Justice Department attorney Andrew Smith, the judge discussed whether Wagner and Sancho had the proper standing to sue:

Smith: "OK, let's assume that there was a NEPA [National Environmental Protection Act] obligation, and maybe there's a NEPA document out there, maybe there's not. But we don't even need to get there. Plaintiffs' complaint says they have to be injured by this project. Their only claim to injury..."

Gillmor: "... is that the world might blow up, and so we shouldn't get concerned about that. You're right. Why was I even considering it? Mr. Smith, I mean, I really find that, you know, I don't know if there's anything to this case, but that's just not a great direction to be going."

Smith: "I'm not following you. I mean, if their only claim to injury is that the world's ..."

Gillmor: "That they might die."

Smith: "Right."

Gillmor: "Yes."

Smith: "So they have to show that that's a credible injury. Is it actually going to happen? I can't just go into federal court and say, you know, 'the United States is participating with Israel to launch a nuclear missile, satellite that has nuclear material in it, and that nuclear material might land on my house in Albuquerque. They didn't do NEPA. I have standing.' That's what this case is about."

Gillmor: "I understand what you just said, that hypothetical, but that's not his [Wagner's] hypothetical. His hypothetical ... I mean, and you know, his hypothetical is that the world would be made into a, you know, hard iron rock, which is different than 'I might be an unintended casualty of something that's happening half around the world - way around the world, but the person next door wouldn't be.'"

Gillmor said her first task would be to figure out whether she had jurisdiction over whatever was happening at the Large Hadron Collider. "Right now I don't know if it should even be in this courtroom. ... If there's no basis for me to be making a decision about this, I'm not in charge of supervising what the federal government does," she said.

The judge is now considering these issues, and in the meantime she told both sides to cool it with the voluminous filings. She noted that the papers already stacked up to measure more than a foot high. "I don't want any more of these raining declarations that I am receiving in these various filings," she said.

Update for 7:52 p.m. ET Sept. 6: On Friday, the government added to Gillmor's stack (with her go-ahead) by lodging its opposition to the plaintiffs' motion for a default judgment against CERN. As expected, the government said that the court lacked jurisdiction over CERN, and that there was no evidence CERN was served in accordance with international procedure.

The government urged the judge to turn down the plaintiffs' request for an injunction against CERN, saying that their claims of potential injury were based on "unfounded and incredibly speculative doomsday scenarios that are not supported by the scientific evidence but only on plaintiffs' 'expert' opinions that they are not qualified to give."

Update for 11:35 p.m. ET Sept. 12: The hearing on the motion for a default judgment against CERN has been rescheduled for Oct. 14 at the plaintiffs' request.

Past chapters in the doomsday saga:

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Comments

The real question is can we afford to not explore this technology.  This planet is dying more and more every day.  We have to explore the technologies that could lead us to faster exploration of the known universe if we want to survive as a species.  This tool could help us there.  

It could help us understand more about anti-matter and how to collect it.  Another commenter said something about anti-matter weapons, and while this is a possibility, another possibility is anti-matter powered engines that can produce close to speed of light travel.  It's also possible that they could power warp drives in the future (yes, warp drives are really being explored, they're not just in star trek)

The knowledge we could gain as a society using this technology is well worth the incredibly minor risk is poses.
All I know is, if Arnold Schwarzenegger suddenly appears out of thin air and starts asking about Sarah Conner, we're in big trouble.
If it unravels the universe it's not like you're going to have time to brood about it. You won't exist and it won't matter.
Overly curious scientists. The LHC isn't needed, so is the risk of the world really worth it? It's okay to ask questions, but we can't always rip out the answers.
Black Holes could be set up for all large cities and around Nuclear Plant's waste storage buildings. One would have to be careful and not back up the garbage trucks to close or they would get sucked in. Perhaps a ramp would let the refuse kinda slide in. Kids need to be cautioned to not play to close to them or their baseballs and bicycles could get sucked in.
Thomas,
Maybe we'll have to deal with Standard, Daylight Savings and Distorted Time zones.

Doug Weed,
I AGREE!!!  Let's burn books, too.  Darn books.

Justin Waddel,
You can put a link to your page below the message box.  Then we can just click your name and go to your page.
Message
Name
email
site

Baron Von Kerplunk,
You'll have to wait.  There are plenty of others we'd like to put in the beam first.

Glen Hughes,
"Black hole" is such an unfortunate terminology.  It brings up images of some cataclysmic thing bent on destroying us all.  It's not like that.  Go to sleep.  Your grandchildren's grandchildren will sleep well.  Except for global warming, pollution, urban violence, etc., but the LHC won't be the thing that hurts them.


Justin Waddell, I have read all these posts [...]

1. Your Dec 21 2012 doomsday is based off the fact that the 4th age of the Mayan calendar ends on that date.  Notice I said 4TH AGE.  If this is the fourth what tells you there isn't going to be a 5TH AGE!  I'm pretty sure no archeologists studying Mayan Civilization and Hieroglyphs have ever stated that the Mayan Calendar ENDS with the 4TH AGE.  
2. The Sun is a massive gyro and flips its poles pretty regularly with no effect on us.
3. The Earth goes through polar shifts every quarter to half million years or so (so who knows when the next one will be).  The time it takes to shift will take many years, and at worst it will reduce the magnitude of our magnetic field (which is solely responsible for protecting us from radiation, and those cool aurora borealis’)  and from all estimates I have heard through my education it will only reduce the magnitude of the magnetic field by 10-20%.  

Steven, you are right on.  For the 50% of us that don’t believe in divine intervention, I will be raising my glasses to you on the LHC turn on date.  I’m assuming the majority of you are the educated individuals who are truly interested in the science we have to gain (and with the full understanding that it will not be doomsday).

For the other 50% of America, get off the bandwagon and crawl back under your rock.  God will save you from the disaster and you can sit on your mountain top and point and laugh at us then…
Well, the world is supposed to end at some point, right?  So why not give this thing a shot and if anyone survives doomsday, they will know better!

I personally am really excited for the CERN folks to begin their experiments and to hear their results.  Just 'cause you don't understand something doesn't necessarily mean its wrong or unsafe.
It needs to happen, it could advance our society and technology leaps and bounds into technological advances.  Even if it does create a black hole and we all die - who cares.  Have you seen the way humans treat eachother - beheadings, torture, bombings - try to watch a video of a beheading and not wonder what has happened to humanity. Who says we deserve to live in our current state - turn it on so we can either advance or perish.
This is just like the people (Crappy Scientists) who thought that an Atomic bomb over 10 kilotons would ignite the oxygen in the atmosphere and would kill us all. The scientists in charge of the lhc are smarter then you, especially about particle physic's. Plain and simple.
Did I hear, "Thanks for the fish"?  

Seriously, has anyone even bothered to read the risk assessment put out by the LHC? If there were even a one in a billion trillion chance this thing could destroy the Earth, every white dwarf star (and probably every neutron star as well) in our universe would have been destroyed billions of years ago. We can never say there is 100% safety, or that there is a 0% hazard.  But to put it in perspective, we are billions (if not trillions) of times more likely to be destroyed by an asteroid or comet, millions, if not billions of times more likely to be destroyed by a gamma ray blast or a free wandering black hole from outside our solar system.  As rarely as s stable yellow star like our Sun explodes unexpectedly, I would estimate that would happen millions of times more often than this puny little accelerator could destroy the earth.  Yes, it is a powerful accelerator by human standards, but by nature's standards of something like a Quasar, it's almost nothing at all.  

Of course, I could be wrong.
1) I say "Do it!" If it is the end of life on earth (and it won't be) then so be it!!
2) We need this, we need to learn all we can about everything this stands for and much much more!!
3) Besides, isn't it too late? They should have tried to stop it BEFORE it was completed or even before start of construction. How stupid to wait until the last minute and after all the money and time invested.
4) We have no power to stop them anyway, how stupid can these opposed people be, just let it go and sit back and enjoy!! I think you will be glad you did!
5) For all those opposed, I would say that after this is over and we start to reap the benefits, you will not get to enjoy them.
7) We need somebody to sneak in there and fire it off, the heck with the people trying to stop it, then we can prove once and for all, there is nothing to fear and nothing to worry about at all!!
8) ALL WILL BE FINE!!  You'll see!!
Check your facts please. Mr. Higgs detests his proposed boson being called the "God Particle," so it is, in fact, NOT known as that. Please stop calling it that. It's the "Higgs boson." Nothing more, nothing less.
What bothers me most, apart from the fact that we could disappear just because of some kind of mad scientist trying to be God(and I´m not calm as even if there would be a 0.3% of risk they shouldn´t put us on risk,there´s anyway no justification), and apart from the terrific  waste of money behind all this, is that there´s a kind of parallel world doing sneak things behind the curtains without our consensus and even our awareness.
Now we hear this because of those 3 scientist suing them but how many experiments they did without we do know?
Here are a few scientific things I have learned thoughout my lifetime:

1.  Don't cross the streams when using a proton pack.
2.  ALWAYS cut the blue wire (not the red).
3.  If you time travel, don't visit yourself.  Seeing yourself could be catastrophic.  Oh...and always take along some extra plutonium.

I'm not sure about this technology, but I wouldn't want to be around if it goes wrong.
Kirk: Then scientists who aren't working on this project (the plaintiffs) should be trusted too. Since there are contradictory opinions among the scientists, you have to weigh the arguments, which the court is.

I think I'd rather spend extra money and have this done robotically on Mars or whatever's at a safe distance. Or better yet, dump the project. We probably won't even get a better non-stick coating from it.
Apparently I've just been sucked from my normal universe into one where the laws of physics were written by Stan Lee (that's Mavel comics dude). OR is it that the nay-sayers and nervous nellies came from the comic book universe? Puhleese if you are concerned about this use the circumstances to educate yourself using information from a reputable source. How about "The Black Hole War" by Leonard Susskind?
I think the only danger with this thing is it might show us some new law of physics that would allow us to creat something like a gravity bomb or something else unthought of to destroy ourselves with.
Someone has been watching too much science fiction and not taken enough science classes.

So let me boil this down for you. If CERN creates a black hole, it will be a quantum black hole, which means that its really, really, really small. Which means that it doesn't have enough mass to be stable and will evaporate in milliseconds. That's really, really, really fast - too fast to suck in enough mass to become stable.

It is far more likely that aliens will destroy the earth because we don't have a good understanding of science than be doomed by anything CERN does. So we must fire it up to save the planet!

My stupid science fiction idea trumps your stupid science fiction idea. Now lets argue about which Star Trek series was the best.
Given the possible hazards, why is no one in the news media asking McCain or Obama for their views on the LHC? It's a little silly for candidates to be babbling on about our national security from "terrorists" if we're about to be sucked out of planetary existence by scientists.
Is anyone answering to the question, "What good will come of this collider?"  As a person who beleives in science, I would say we should not get in the way of exploration.  Throughout history exploration in science is what has given us airplanes, computers, and CURES FOR DISEASES.  I'm sure the pros out weigh the carfully calculated cons.
i don´t know that much about science but i know that if there is a chance (no matter how small) that the world could be destroyed why take the risk. Why spend so much time and money in something that could( not likely at all, but actually possible ) destroy everything.
I see commenters are getting around to the "what good is all this" question, so I'll repost the remarks I made in earlier items on this score:

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/08/07/1252902.aspx


Over the past 70 years or so, physicists have been smashing atoms and subatomic particles together to study what makes them tick. The analogy has been made to shooting at a nerf ball with a BB gun, and trying to figure out what's inside the nerf ball by seeing how the BBs are deflected and what gets knocked loose.

These particle colliders have been operating at higher and higher energies, and they've been quite useful ... not only because they reveal what we're made of (for example, the discovery of quarks, etc.) but also because the beams have real-world applications (treating cancer, developing stronger materials, mapping internal organs).

The Large Hadron Collider ("hadron" refers to any particle that contains quarks) will be by far the most powerful particle collider to date, achieving energies seven times as high as the previous champion (the Tevatron in Illinois). It's important to remember that collisions far more energetic occur in outer space all the time. You could think of the LHC as the best artificial cosmic-ray simulator we've been able to come up with so far.

So what will it find? We'll go into that in much more depth in a couple of weeks, but in brief, physicists hope to answer some of the puzzling questions that have been unanswerable until now. For example, based on our current understanding of gravity, we know that all the matter we can see is only about 10 percent of all the matter in the universe. Scientists believe the other 90 percent is "dark matter," which may consist of exotic particles that zip through us all the time but have never been detected. The LHC could detect the signatures of such dark matter particles.

Another question has to do with antimatter. Theorists have said that equal parts of matter and antimatter arose in the big bang that gave rise to the universe as we know it ... but theoretically, those equal parts should have annihilated themselves and resulted in pure energy. There must have been something about antimatter that gave it a disadvantage and led to the fact that we hardly ever see antimatter in nature. One of the LHC experiments, LHCb, will address that conundrum.

Another LHC experiment, called ALICE, will seek to re-create the conditions that existed just after the big bang and study the plasma (or fluid) that made up all that was at that time.

Then there's the Higgs boson. As I mentioned above, it's the last particle predicted by the Standard Model that hasn't yet been detected. It is thought to be associated with a field that determines which particles will have mass (like protons) and which particles won't (like photons). It's so important to the way the world works that it's been called the "God Particle."

Theorist John Ellis told me that the Higgs is the "door" leading to new physics that we can't really guess about right now. Determining its characteristics could lead physicists beyond the brick wall they're facing on several fronts.

There are also way-out ideas: If the universe contains extra unseen dimensions, as some theorists have said, the LHC could create microscopic knots of energy that have been dubbed "mini-black holes" (virtually all physicists say they would disappear instantaneously). Some researchers claim that the LHC could create small closed timelike curves ... essentially, microscopic wormholes or time machines. Most physicists say that's pretty much science fiction, but there has been at least one paper written up about the idea:

http://arxiv.org/abs/0710.2696

As far as real-world applications ... well, that can't be predicted right now. But past advances in high-energy physics and engineering have led to new ways to see the universe (like space telescopes sensitive to various wavelengths) and new devices (like PET scanners and MRI scanners in hospitals). The engineering insights gained from the LHC could help other scientists tame fusion power, or discover entirely new sources of energy, or come up with new types of materials or sensors.

We'll delve into this a lot more in the coming weeks, but I did want to give folks a sense of why the LHC is important.

If you want to click through a presentation that explains particle physics step by step, you can check out the Particle Adventure:

http://particleadventure.org/frameless/startstandard.html
Einstein said that imagination is more important than knowledge.  May the scientists at CERN invoke all the imagination of the doomsayers and seven times their caution given the knowledge of this machine's capabilities.  See http://www.slac.stanford.edu/pubs/slacpubs/9000/slac-pub-9053.html
http://www.slac.stanford.edu/econf/C0507252/lec_notes/Webber/ webber.pdf

According to the below article, LHC will produce a black hole every second.

http://www.slac.stanford.edu/econf/C0507252/lec_notes/Webber/ webber.pdf

And, on this eve of the commissioning, is it too soon to start talking about the LHC's potential successors:
the International Linear Collider and, every physicist's dream, the Very Large Hadron Collider with more than 100 times the power of the Tevatron.

http://www.slac.stanford.edu/pubs/slacreports/slac-r-591.html
Hollywood Phil writes:  "Hawking radiation "proves?" that black holes do radiate energy and decay over time".  I find this bit of knowledge quite reassuring especially since the concepts of "Hawking radiation" and black hole entropy grew out of the professor's admission he was wrong in his intellectual battle with Leonard Susskind over the loss of information to black holes.  See http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2004/07/21/hawking040721.html  See also Susskind's new book "The Black Hole War, My Battle With Stephen Hawking to Make the World Safe for Quantum Mechanics"

The truth is that very little is known about black hole decay (other than purely theoretical projections)and that, for me, is an issue of great concern with regard to the LHC and its successors.
Didn't something like this happen with the atom bomb...the fear that setting it off would destroy the world. Well, we're still here...several explosions here. I think this lawsuit is pointless. If they're worried about bringing the end of the world, man will do that one way or another. We seem to very adept at killing each other...for any reason at all.
I would love to see a story that for once examines the credentials of these plaintiffs. Dennis Overbye glossed over it in his stories. You mention it in passing. But despite bogus claims of "ad hominem" attacks, these characters are largely clueless about particle physics. That, in my opinion is the most important fact in this dispute. That should be the headline: "Clueless Dudes Pursue Clueless Lawsuit." Why anyone treats them with more respect than that baffles me.
Alan, James, you can actually see Dr. Plaga's paper refuted here: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0808/0808.4087v1.pdf

And for the record, James over there has a habit of ignoring anything that doesn't agree with his arguments. I remember he was "schooled" by two major physicists in their blog not so long ago.

In any event, that's irrelevant. The LHC should not be stopped just due to some people's megalomania.
"We need to rule out the ability of anyone to study this sort of nonsense and to disassemble any facility that makes efforts in these areas.

It is sad the minds that are stuck in these cycles in various labs around the world working on the next great catastrophe."



Of course. We need to permit research only on relevant matters where we can apply the results to human well being and that pose absolutely no threat to mankind.

Like, um, biology...


(Just for those easily confused, that was sarcasm.)
AGAIN, THIS IS A GIGANTIC WASTE OF MONEY!!!

Thanks, Mike: In the early stories I tried to provide a bit of background about Wagner and Sancho. Sancho is less involved in all this than Wagner is ... in fact, Sancho failed to sign off on some of the court filings and had to catch up with them later.

Sancho is a Spanish science writer who has what one could characterize as far-out ideas about cosmology. Here's his Web site:

http://www.unificationtheory.com

The domain registration for the site lists a New York address.

Wagner's undergraduate degree is in biology with a physics minor, from UC-Berkeley, and he did cosmic-ray research there (he says he is credited with discovery of a magnetic monopole, but the government filings contest that).

Wagner also has had long experience with court filings. One of the government's documents (which doesn't currently show up in the docket) noted that he has a law degree from the University of Northern California and was involved in a wide range of legal actions (and therefore, according to the government, had no excuse for late filings ... the judge allowed the filings to go forward).

Here's one article that focuses on his legal work:

http://thedeadhand.com/Journal/tabid/160/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/413/Lawyers-saving-the-world.aspx

And here's another that addresses a long-running case:

http://donnabader.com/?p=20

Wagner was a radiation safety officer for the Veterans Administration, and retired from that post. Then he taught science and math in California "for many years to grade school and college students."

He now lives in Hawaii, where he founded a botanical garden. That project has been the subject of legal action in recent years:

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Feb/29/ln/hawaii802290352.html

As the article notes, there's a messy legal dispute between Wagner and the current operators of the garden.

I'm familiar with Wagner from his legal battle against the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider, and also wrote a story about his campaign against uranium tiles:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3077374/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3077213/

The potential "benefits" of the LHC are evident in the following article: "Scientists use particle accelerator to date wine" http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080903/sc_nm/france_wine_dc One small step for a wino, one great leap for all mankind. So we're all going to risk death - admittedly a small risk, but a real one - so some connoisseur can be certain of his alky's provenance. BTW I get really tired of the bogus cosmic ray argument. Cosmic rays generally don't impact head-on and they move at different velocities that result in any micro black hole being sent at thousands of miles per second. That means gravity won't capture them and they will pass harmlessly through the Earth and other celestial bodies. But the LHC will deliberately strike particles head-on AND at equal velocities. The consequence has to be that any resulting micro black hole will be at rest relative to the Earth and will be captured by Earth's gravity, descending literally to the center of the Earth, where accretion may be possible. As for "Hawking Radiation" that is sheer speculation (admittedly just as it is speculative that a micro black hole captured by Earth's gravity will accrete); but the difference is that if Hawking's speculation is wrong and a micro black hole forms and accretes we might all die. True, this probably won't happen, but at what point will we do some experiment that can and does kill us all? Safety standards have to be articulated, and not just by scientists. Even if some scientific Jor-El warned the scientific community of a hazard, he or she would probably be ignored. Not to mention silenced. The time to start developing and implementing safety standards may as well be now. All of us have the potential to be killed by a variety of experiments and ALL of us must have a voice.
If there is any doubt whether this could bring about the Destruction of Our Earth... The ONLY world we have...

What gives Anyone the right to turn on this machine when no one will guarantee our safety??

I say. Shut the thing down.

Do Not Place Dice with My Planet.


As a Board Registered and practicing Nuclear Pharmacist (yes, it’s a real profession), I work every night with cyclotrons and particle accelerators.  You may or may not consider me an expert, but you must admit I am familiar with the whole process.  I am aware of all the “doomsday” scenarios and fear mongering and to that I ask “Why?”  8 years ago many thought the world would end, 40 years ago we would never make it to the moon, 50 years ago it was impossible to break the speed of sound, 63 years ago many were convinced we were going to “burn off the entire atmosphere”, 350 years ago, everyone thought the Earth was flat and you would fall off, and 1008 years ago everyone thought the world was going to end.  Yet today, here we are.  I do not believe; even at 100x the power that we could generate the forces needed for a “Black Hole”.  Our own Sun couldn’t do it, it’s too small.  Sadly I think this is more about ego than fact.

Steven Oliveira
I could put all titles here, but why bother.
I cannot believe all the negative comments about the LHC. The knowledge we gain from the LHC will advance science and technology in ways we cannot even imagine right now.  All of you who say we should not turn on the LHC act as if understand quantum theory and mechanics.  I wonder how many of you have benefited from MRI's, CAT Scans and nuclear medicine.  Yes, science can be used for the wrong reasons, but I'm quite confident that the LHC will advance mankind's knowledge for the better.
Once you create a mini Black Hole, . . how do you get rid of it?
Maybe this is the super advanced machine that wiped all traces of Atlantis off the map.
Why would you take the chance of even plugging this thing in if there was even a SLIGHT chance of something bad happening?
As smart as Einstein was, it's a know fact that he had NO common sense and that he had trouble tying his shoes.....
This falls into that no common sense category.
Previously posted the incorrect link for authority that the LHC will produce a black hole every second.
Here is the correct link:

http://www.slac.stanford.edu/econf/C010630/papers/P321.PDF

The real issue is entropy or rate of decay which is entirely based on projections emanating from a theory born out of an admittedly mistaken belief about the nature of black holes.  
seriously, people will believe anything they read these days,  regardless of its validity, anyone who has any clue about what they are doing knows that there is as good a chance of them creating a "globe gobbling" black hole as there is of the sun exploding tomorrow,  yea its possible, but its also possible that all the nuclear warheads on the planet will go off at the same time.   Leave the science to the scientist, and lets worry about our own little part of the world.
You know what they said about the Titanic, it was unsinkable the safest ship in the world until a minor flaw in the system caused the death of so many.
I honestly don't think we could ever create enough energy to make a black hole.  Do we really have that kind of power?
You know there were more than a few scientist that had reservations about detonating the first atomic bomb, something about creating a chain reaction in the atmosphere.  Well that didn't happen, but safety is the better part of not being blown all to hell!
Whoa! I’m trying to find a bright side …if the “know it all crowd” invokes tragedy then the first thing consumed will be CERN and along with it a lot of newly identified idiots “More than likely thinking …Oops!”

On the other hand, if nothing catastrophic happens what’s next in the never ending search for critical understanding, to make the unknown-known? What will the new costs be? There are myriads of tangled tangible and intangible costs associated to this stuff? Like most of you, I can’t afford the stress and economic impact on my life. My voice falls on deaf ears as I forget that I’m but one of the billions in the great mass.

LHC-CERN appears to be a herd of techies try to find a “Fart in a Whirlwind!” They can smell something, but they just can’t see it …and it does stink.

On September 10th I’m going fishing, if crap happens, I’ll be having fun when time burns out! Sadly, my heart is too old and broken to consider ending it with sex.


It is amazing to see all your presuppositions colliding at quantum levels. Some are spoken, some are assumed. Lots of uncertainty is being detected.
• Universe is billions of years old
• Cosmic radiation has been colliding head-on for millennia
• We, the puny, haven’t seen any catastrophes from those collisions (in 20 years)
• We, the ignorant, want to up the anti (matter)
• We, the fallen, can be trusted with immense power
• The Titanic is unsinkable
I think this is far too bigger risk to take and utterly rediculous to invent something of this nature in the first place. Lets just say this does go wrong and people`s fears become reality, what then?? It is an inventors objective to create new and groundbreaking engineering, as we all know with no consideration at the time for human life, nuclear weapons, atomic weapons, guns etc. What goes through someone`s head when they invent something that could wipe out whole cities - "i know, lets make this", yet goverments fund this kind of thing. As long as they come out with the latest and newest toy right?! What about those affected though?! Lets just say the professors who oppose this do actually have the knowledge and understanding to know that this is a risk to lives on a mass scale, and are so strongly against it to the point of taking it to court. I would say we have something to worry about. Human life is not taken into consideration by inventors, by the people using the inventions and in general so whats the difference here?? The idiots in this case are to no exception so lets hope this doesnt go wrong as im pretty sure it will be going ahead. Oops!!
The problem is that backing off from a miscalculation
is not an option. I have heard the earth would have
at best a half hour. Regardless of the science, look
at other mistakes, like Chernoble, which compared to this is tiny. As for motives? I don't buy such an
airy theoretical basis for spending a half trillion.
The motives have exotic applicable technology in mind,
thus exotic power. I dare say they know what they're looking for, and it isn't any "God Particle," though
perhaps god-like capabilities inflame their egos.
And neither ethics nor morality is anywhere near
such decisions.
Now this is very interesting....
http://www.williamhenry.net/art_dis-cerning.html
I dare say that if the quantum time machine (closed timelike curvature) occures then the past will be immediately altered and we'll be back to the future.
Relax!  Scientists never make mistakes.  
Great Story.  Just think, if they do create a black hole and it does eat the earth we will no longer have to hear about Britney Spears and Anjolie and Pitt.  LOL  I say let her rip!!!   Start it up.

While the article says 7 times more powerful that applies to protons. When lead is introduced that figure reads 500 times more powerful.

It is the same machine. It is presented with a smaller figure than what it will really do in a couple of years. Is that an honest way to introduce a machine 500 times more powerful than anything ever built?

[ALAN ADDS: Aha, you're talking about the ALICE experiment. For about a month out of each year, the LHC will switch from colliding protons to colliding lead ions. The Tevatron doesn't do heavy ions, just protons and antiprotons, so it doesn't provide a good comparison. The correct comparison would be with the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider, which is at Brookhaven and smashes gold ions. RHIC has a peak collision energy of 200 GeV per nucleon pair, while the LHC will produce lead-ion collisions at 5.5 TeV per nucleon pair. That means the peak collision energy for ALICE will be roughly 30 times the collision energy for RHIC, as outlined here:]

http://cerncourier.com/cws/article/cern/34261

[I'm not sure where the "500 times" figure comes from ... that may have been drawn from a look at lower collision energies for RHIC. Or perhaps there's something about relativistic effects that is added to the formulas at some point. But I hope we've been able to shed a little more light on the LHC/RHIC comparison, and why it's different from the LHC/Tevatron comparison. The ALICE collisions are not projected to create globe-gobbling black holes whether you look at the RHIC or Tevatron comparison, although the plaintiffs in the current suit would likely disagree with that view. Follow the link below for more about "black holes" and RHIC:]

http://www.bnl.gov/rhic/black_holes.htm



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