ABOUT COSMIC LOG

Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

Check out Boyle's biography or send a message to Cosmic Log via cosmiclog@msnbc.com.



Should we be phoning E.T.?

Posted: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:23 PM by Alan Boyle


NASA
This plaque, placed on
NASA probes in 1972 and 1973, depicts humans
and Earth's location.

We've been listening for the signs of extraterrestrial civilizations for nearly 50 years - and if E.T.s are out there, they just might have picked up on the radio signals that we've been transmitting for even longer. More recently, some broadcasters have been sending intentional shout-outs to the aliens.

Is that so wrong?

Yes, in the opinion of physicist-novelist David Brin and other scientists who say such transmissions could bring unwelcome consequences.

For years, Brin has been concerned about the idea of phoning E.T. - a practice he calls METI. That stands for "messages to extraterrestrial intelligence," as opposed to SETI, or the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. In an essay titled "Shouting at the Cosmos," written for the Lifeboat Foundation, Brin said the idea of sending high-powered messages to E.T. represented a worrisome turn in the SETI search:

"If aliens are so advanced and altruistic ... and yet are choosing to remain silent ... should we not consider following their example and doing likewise? At least for a little while? Is it possible that they are silent because they know something we don't know?"

One worry might be that the aliens who respond to the phone call won't look like the cute little fellow in the movie "E.T.," but more like the villains of "Independence Day" or "War of the Worlds." (Or, for that matter, "The X-Files," which returns to the big screen next week.) Brin doesn't explicitly mention an alien invasion, but he does voice deep concern about "shouting into an unknown jungle that we do not understand."

Over the past couple of years, there's been a good deal of cosmic shouting - or, more accurately, singing and shilling:

TV broadcasts probably don't make that much of a dent in the cosmos, as the SETI Institute's Seth Shostak reported in a 2004 research paper. But Brin is worried that the high-powered signals just might get the wrong kind of attention, and for the past couple of years he's been trying to get something done about it.


Cornell
This schematic shows the
coded message sent out
from the Arecibo Observatory
in 1974. Click here for
the graphic's meaning.


One opportunity came and went in 2006, when a study group for the International Academy of Astronautics discussed SETI issues at a meeting in Spain. Brin and other participants hoped that the group would come up with a procedure for considering and clearing messages meant for E.T., but the issue wasn't addressed to his satisfaction.

Since then, retired U.S. diplomat Michael Michaud and John Billingham, former chief of NASA's SETI office, reportedly resigned from the study group in protest - and Brin is gearing up for another opportunity to get some exposure for the issue. The IAA is due to discuss active SETI and other topics during a September symposium in Paris.

"It looks likely to be yet another staged, Potemkin exercise," Brin told me in an e-mail exchange. "Those who are not present will be ridiculed as 'panicking over Cardassian war fleets' and seeking 'censorship' (neither of which have even remotely been mentioned)."

The possibilities could include setting up a procedure for transmitting messages to target star systems, just as there is an IAA-approved procedure for spreading the word about a confirmed message from E.T. The process might bring in the United Nations or the International Astronomical Union, but the important thing for Brin is that the issue gets a serious airing.

He's already gotten some support from some corners of the blogosphere as well as from space exploration advocates such as Space Policy Consulting's Charles Miller. In an e-mail, Miller said transmissions to E.T. risked exposing Earth to catastrophic consequences, and thus could constitute "crimes against humanity."

Most experts on SETI would reject that indictment. They argue that Earth is already signaling its presence through high-powered military radars, that the vast distances between star systems would insulate civilizations from each other, and that any civilization capable of communicating with others would likely have already gone through its awkward phase.

I realize this is starting to sound like a "Star Trek" episode. It might seem crazy to be concerned about the coming alien invasion when there are more immediate problems to worry about, such as the price of gasoline and the housing crisis.

Even when you consider cosmic threats from space, there's a big distinction between the threats that are already known to occur - such as huge asteroid impacts or supernova blasts - and the threats that depend on what appears to be a string of unlikely propositions. How do you weigh the chances that inimical intelligent life exists on other planets that are close enough to possibly pose a threat?

Brin himself has written about some way-out doomsdays, such as the possibility that a microscopic black hole could destroy the earth. He used that plot device in his 1990 science-fiction novel "Earth." Since then, scientists have gone through a lot of effort to argue that such a scenario couldn't happen in reality.

In one of his e-mails, Brin drew a parallel between the black-hole controversy and the discussion over sending messages to extraterrestrial intelligence:

"The mini-black hole threat is similar to the METI threat in that both are examples of 21st-century quandaries concerning low-probability, high-consequence potential failure modes.

"There is an active discussion site concerning 'existential threats' on the Lifeboat site.  And Nick Bostrum and others have been cataloguing such threats in a way that might lead to improved risk analysis. But we are still in early days and it seems a devilishly vexing problem.

"At one end, you have Bill Joy, Michael Crichton and Ted Kaczynski, variously proposing 'renunciation' as our only way to avoid a 'bad singularity.'  The far right turns anti-science while the far left despises Big Engineering.

"At the other extreme are those who blithely assume that troglodyte-luddites will be proved wrong by accelerating intelligence.

"For more, see: http://lifeboat.com/ex/singularities.and.nightmares

"It puts pragmatic-enlightenment civilization in a bind.  One that I am portraying in my new novel.

"It really ought to be the topic of a major, major conference. Ah, well. Let me know if possibilities occur."

What do you think? Should there be a First Amendment right to phone E.T.? Should broadcasts to the aliens be regulated? Or is this an issue not worth caring about? Feel free to weigh in with your comments below.

Update for 3:30 p.m. ET July 15: Seth Shostak, senior astronomer at the SETI Institute, got back to me and pointed out that the issue of detecting our signals is really a question of how big a detector the aliens might have. If the antenna is sensitive enough, even early TV signals could be picked up tens of light-years away from Earth.

There's also the question of Earth's unconcealable atmospheric signature: Click through the comments below for insights from Brian McConnell, author of "Beyond Contact: A Guide to SETI and Communicating With Alien Civilizations."

Right now, the controversy is playing out over theoretical what-ifs, and it's hard to tell whether any intentional signals would have an effect. The discussion would have a sharper focus if a signal from an alien civilization were ever detected.

"If you find a signal, then you know where you would want to send a response," said Shostak, who chairs the IAA's SETI Permanent Study Group. The proposed reply would become the subject of intense scientific - and political - discussion.

The procedures for handling any messages to and from E.T. would likely be discussed at the September symposium in Paris, as well as a meeting that will follow in Glasgow, Scotland.

"The current protocols are in fact a gentleman's agreement among some of the SETI folk, and they really don't have the force of international law," Shostak pointed out. "In fact, not all practitioners of SETI have signed onto the current protocols. The fundamental purpose of the protocols is merely to reassure the public that there will be no secrecy, and they will know what's going on."

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

Why are we getting so worried about signals broadcasted into outer space?  Are those signals being received by anything at all?  What is it we're sending will instigate a war?  Why is there a worry?  We shouldn't be getting paranoid... btw, has anyone tried receiving signals from space?  Most people don't believe "aliens" exist at all... if they did, maybe we oughta receive something, even by now...  Just wondering...
The Aliens have all been listening to Howard Stern...if they haven't attacked yet, we're OK.
What makes these Folks think aliens are all so far away?
They also get webcasts, porno, and various wacky commentators all day long from our telecom transmissions.
What's in it for ET?  If they are advanced enough to hear our messages, travel all the way to us, and enslave/destroy us, what do they gain?  What is the reward thet would be worth the (presumably high) cost of travelling here that they couldn't get from uninhabited or at least uncivilized worlds?
IMHO, This is just silly.  First, all our transmissions from the first radio to the text message you just sent are already headed out there. Too late, if they want to find us they already would have a head start.

Second, if ET's were bad guys they would have come by now.  If you were an advanced warlike race with wonderful space travel ablities, would you have waited until some planet actually had weapons that might actually hurt you?  No, you would come when we had muskets and such, less chance for failure.

Face facts, IF ET had evil intents, we would have been gone by now.  Of course, as he reads the inane comments by Brin, (the internet is beamed too), they would have decided there was no sign of intelligent live here already.
I understand the excitement of and need for exploration, advancement, and discovery. However, is this really the best time to be spending resources on calling ET? At the moment, I believe we need to get back to basics, get out of this recession, and settle the genocides, wars, and poverty of this world. How much did NASA spend to beam a Beatles song toward Polaris? Now, how many people cannot afford gasoline, food, shelter, insurance? Where are our priorities as a civilization? Call ET or don't call ET, but let's take care of ourselves first.
Put me down as supporting Mr. Brin.  
The people who assume that aliens will be cute and friendly (i.e like ET) seem to have only one argument 'that anyone intelligent enough to receive signals will have gone through its awkward stage'.  Our species is already listening for signals, and we certainly aren't through our 'awkward stage'.  

Even my wife, when I read her the article, replied, "So they don't believe in those warrior races from Star Trek?"  I told her she meant Klingons.

We would do well to think of all the horrible things that happened on Earth when advanced cultures and more primitive cultures met. Generally, the less advanced culture was wiped out due to disease, religious intolerance, superior numbers or technology of the more advanced culture.  

Brin is right.  Only one good thing might happen.  A thousand bad things could happen, most of which would be very bad for humans.
I think transmitting into space is currently a bad idea. If the speed of light is the limiting factor in interstellar travel there are only two valid reasons to do so. One is to leave one's home system never to return and become explorers, traders and tourists. The other is to find a new home when one's star or home world is dying. A quick review of our own history with advanced cultures interacting with less advanced cultures is highly predictive. The threat of a desperate race looking for a new home is the most likely alien encounter that we will have. We won't need far out aliens, just another race of humans with a different skin color and religion and we will be at war.
Brin wrote "The Postman" a novel about the destruction of our society because of the influence of a survivalist cult.  It part it was because he disliked people who prepare for civilization's collapse (feel free to correct me) as too anti-social.  It sounds like he is reading elements of his own book (not the same as the movie) into his own present, perceived reality.  It seems the paranoia in the book of the evils of technology misused has now blossomed fully into the envisionment of the greatest boogeyman of all - planetfall - alien invasion.  Perhaps another book of creative fiction is in the works?
I don't know about a total alien civilization or 2 or 3 or however many actually reacting in such a way if they have received our beacons, but I do have this other idea that was sort of dealt with in A.C. Clarkes "Rondezvous with Rama" or a Star Trek episode "The Doomsday Machine".

Consider long extinct highly advanced beings that built complete self sustaining "robotic" or cy-borg like interstellar machines just travelling aimlessly only to react too electro-magnetic signals of obvious intelligent design.  A planet buster? An ambassador of "the Gods"?  

Personally, I don't think a real civilization would just be booting around interstellar space waiting to home in on some signals.
I am another vote in the "cautious" column.  Just as not all humans I might reach with a broadband transmission are friendly, I dare not suppose that any extraterrestrials that I may or may not contact would be friendly either.  That is, assuming they understand the context of the message as anything other than "sun spots".

Granted, the odds of there being another space-traveling species within "hearing" distance is very low.  But if you were to look at all of the humans in hearing distance of your call, what percentage of them would you be willing to invite open-armed into your home?
My concern for years has been  what WE are....
If we're not killing someone "else", of another religion or race or culture, we'll happily start killing each other...
Our entire history, art, and cultures are rife with our innate violence and our inability to move away from that.
I think that any intelligence that has the ability to recognize that they've detected us would be put off by what they see in all these TV and radio transmissions...It consists largly of us blowing others up or setting them on fire....
What would YOU do if you encountered a species that was very close to being able to come to YOU and that constantly demonstrated that the only way they know how to deal with anything different in even a minor degree is to attack it and destroy it?

I am quite convinced that if we DID encounter another species, of any kind....We would almost immediately try to kill it...

We always have concerning everything else we've dealt with, and I see no reason to assume we won't continue to do so...

I'd have to hazard that if any truly advanced intelligence IS watching us....They're preparing to wipe us OUT if we DO start heading thier direction....It would be a neccesity simply for survival given our history and innate violent natures.
Question, is the worry because there is already the hint that someone is listening?
So Alan, what about some facts to help this discussion along. What's actually getting sent out and how directional is it, i.e., do TV signals go out as a big wave that eventually crests on every planetary shore? Or is it more like a cellphone call, aimed at one cell tower and in order to pick it up, you need to be in line-of-sight to the tower? And even given how fast the signals leave Earth, what percentage of the Milky Way, not to mention the Universe, can tune in to MSNBC by now? And given all of that clutter, how do scientists design their signal to stand out?
Remember the original 'Alien' movie?  Remember what Ripley wondered aloud . . . is that beacon a plea for help--or a warning?  We have no idea what's 'out there'. Not a clue.  It--they--could be our most fervent hope--or our worst nightmare.  We don't know.  And it IS a possibility we might not find out til it's too late.  We assume the 'aliens' will be like ET--small, cuddly, cute.  Or not.  We assume the vast distances of space protect us.  Sort of the Pearl Harbor mentality.  The speed of light may NOT be an absolute barrier.  There may be other modes of getting from there to here that we can't imagine.  Think about it:  we don't even know what 96% of our universe is made of.  Which means we DO understand almost nothing!  The future is going to be full of strangeness and weirdness.  I hope it's friendly strange--but there are no guarantees.    
Seems like a bunch or rhetoric to me...

"If they wanted to find us, and destroy us, they would have done it by now" How do you know they haven't and are not in the process of it, right now? My belief is a superior entity wouldn't waste its time or effort "destroying" but would rather "control". Knowing how to manage or control valuble resources is a skill that I am sure any intelligent being would be good at. With that said, they have most likely been here a long time ago, and are still here... cloaked and hidden. "Wizard of Oz" It's pretty simple to understand really.

"If we have been sending signals out into space, wouldn't they have responded already?" Now you really think, the government is going to tell you or us, either way?

I am sure, or pretty sure, that we deploy similar systems that would be used on a inerstellar/galactic level. Any intelligent entitity, within other groups of the same, would have some type of security council or senate. This would be a good reason, why you dont have "rebel" ETs out there just hopping from planet to planet, destroying them. I am sure it's against "galactic law". Any intelligent entity would have some type of law, such as our own. Barbaric type of creatures, probably dont make it too far up the "intelligent entity" ladder, if you know what I mean.

At this point, you really have to be stubborn or a straight caveman, to believe there is no such thing as ETs. Billions of years ago, The universe was billions of years old... before the milky way was a spark, there were ancient advanced civilizations.

So once you realize "we are not alone", then try to figure out the answers.

Put 2 and 2 together...
Ha-ha!  It's a long way to go for human burgers.  What's really the worry here?  That something really gets a kick out of killing humans?  That Earth-like planets are in short supply?

Number 1, we're already unintentionally sending tons of signals into space and no one is willing to "cloak" the planet.

Number 2, it takes anything thousands of years to get to our planet, and people are deluding themselves if they think that we would be so alluring to any advanced otherwordly civilization.
The best evidence that there is intelligent life in the Universe other than Man is that they HAVEN'T contacted Earth.
"we can't se the forest for the trees", comes to mind as we imagine all the different , strange lifeforms that could exist on a planet circling another star...It makes me want to lol. If they could exist on the strange planet of another star why have we completely discounted the 'possibility' that they could exist on one of the strange planets of our own star? Oh, I forgot, we have already 'conquered' our solar system and are heading to the stars.. Now I really will lol. Has anyone noticed that Saturn has a huge Hexagon at one of it's poles and an unusually strong storm at the other pole? "Aliens" may be right here close to us and we are too dumb to realize it.
Bob
Aliens certainly exist...no doubt. God also exists and He is not going to allow any aliens to destroy the Earth.
Stephen Hawking may have said it best - we should keep our heads low, considering how our own speces treats each other.  Weak signals from broadcasts are not the same as powerful, concentrated ones.  Also, how would we know what 'stage' is next, for our own or any other speces?  Maybe there is a reason we haven't found anyone else after decades of listening.  They may have heard something they didn't like before making the mistake of speaking up.
Applying human paranoia to the contemplation of galactic faring beings seems so... typically human.

Think: a race able to cross the cosmos to hunt down stray signals? Wouldn't such a race likely have sensing equipment already scanning systems, capable of locating life? And, assuming we haven't been found already, what increase in percentage chance would our radio waves offer for detection over, say, the lightwaves from New York or Paris (all lit up beautifully)? Shall we also start darkening our cities at night? Ah hem... people, please!
I find the discussion a little bit too late.  Our electronic signals have been blasting out to space for quite some time, are way ahead of any artifact we've sent out for the foreseeable future.

If these kinds of human action invite alien contact, then we'd better prepare for the range of contact probabilities we will need to deal with -- a friendly check-in by Vorlons looking for "The One" or, on the other end of the scale, contact with xenomorphs that carelessly leave large eggs laying about.  In either case, the human race will be in need of sympathy.
This lune like everyother blogger wants attention.  I do not what his degree is in, but I would not worry about an invasion.  
I would worry more about us destroying ourselves.  Between Global Warming, terrorist getting a biological or nuclear weapon, aliens would not have to invade.  There has to be someone left to invade.
They are out there! They listen carefully. They have already decided why waste their time and precious fuel at $299.9/gal to come here and wipe us out. They know we are doing a fine job of it by ourselves. Just wait about another 1.5 Delgork periods (2010 earth years)and we will poison ourselves to death. Then come by and pick up the spoils.
I don't want to give anyone bad dreams when they go to bed tonight, but, another more advanced life form maybe hungry and look at life on earth as food. When you eat chicken do you consider how the chicken feels about your intentions. Imagine another more advanced life form part machine that cannot be killed by viruses or bacteria chowing down everything including viruses for dinner. I think we should be more concerned about improving the livability and viability of not polluting and exterminating anymore species on our planet. goodnight p.s. ...sweetdreams
As babies, we learn that a flame is hot. Unfortunately, we learn this fact a little too late regardless of what we're told by our guardians. In terms of the Universe's age, humans are infants. Some might even claim that we just a sparkle in our parent's eyes. As challenging as it may be we should try to think like "universal adults." After all, considering our water, protein, vegetation, and mineral resources Earth is a gold mine to any race looking for such gold. Let's be careful to whom we advertise our treasure map to.
This may be a small world, but the universe is enormous.  For the signals to reach Polaris it would take around 430 light years.  All the crap we pump into the air hasnt traveled all that far.  We can see far into space because that light has been traveling for thousands of years.    
There has been so many sightings for thousands of years it's arrogant for us to think only we are advanced. If anything, why worry? If they have millions of years head start technologically,they can find other means to circumvent traveling the speed of light and getting here almost instantly. That kind of technology is so overwhelming it would appear to us as magic. Remember, 50-60 years ago we thought the universe was our galaxy! We are but a blip on the time-line. It would take either assistance from 'outside', which I believe has been going on at some level for a very long time, or thousands of years of R&D to find how to stabilize worm holes or warp space in front of a ship to get around Einstein's rules at traveling faster than light. It can't be done. What if a small asteroid were to wander those light years away when we 'engage' and find ourselves light years away? We could easily arrive, but with a small asteroid penetrating the ship or the people aboard-or, decompressing to a vacuum at the least. NOT LIKE TV.
BOTTOM LINE- If they wanted to cause harm we couldn't do a darn thing. I guess ignorance is bliss.
I believe we should be listening and should be cautious with our transmissions.  Every discovered people in the history of our planet have been conquered.  I prefer that our role be that of the benevolent discoverer.
Seeing as the human race is doing a good job of destroying the environment and itself already, an alien invasion is the least of our worries! Maybe the aliens would do a better job at saving the Earth - a "hostile takeover" by "new management".
Since tv started broadcasting we have been sending signals to space. It's a bit late to be concerned about signals and such.
Its already too late, they are on the way and we wont survive.
I think it's irresponsible to beam messages to space in efforts to let "them" know we are here. What if? What right does anybody have to play cutesy games with my world? They could already be heading here or staging for an invasion - sounds whacky - but in a universe are huge and diverse as we have - anything is possible. These ET enthusiast need to stop with the games that can put us all at risk - even if the odds are slim. These folks are really naively reaching for something to fulfill an emptiness and discontent in their lives. They have to believe there is something "better" out there to save us from our misderable state. The real answers are not "out there" but within each of us.
Why would any advanced race invade us? Answer: Living Space and rare resource deposits

Aside from that I would welcome any advanced civilization
Irrespective of one's view on the existence of aliens, if we are going to be sending these messages out, such broadcasts should be regulated.

It may sound absurd, but in a worst case scenario man could very well be the indigenous tribe with lovely land (and E.T. the conquistadores.)

The point is that we just don't know.

Common sense alone calls for a degree of caution and thoughtful reflection when the stakes are so very high.
Maybe the ETs will show up hoping to attend a Beatles concert.

I think this is much ado about nothing.  Given the realities of physics and the distances between stars, the possibility of any civilization reaching another star is very remote.  Going such vast distances to wage war?  Preposterous!  

IF, and I mean if, we ever receive a signal from afar, then we should get together and decide how to respond.  As far as sending signals, I do think it's a good idea to be more systematic rather than sending messages haphazardly.
David Brin here, responding to this mostly-fair, but still a bit misleading article.

Most of your commenters, so far, have gone for the classics, like "it's already too late!"  But the Seti Institute itself has made clear that it is an old wives' tale that "I Love Lucy" reaches the stars.  Simple calculations show that no TV or even radar transmission has ever had the narrow angular footprint that could make it recognizable, even at the nearest star.  But narrow beams, like those used in METI, CAN dramatically alter Earth's radiation signature from afar.  Folks who sneer "ofcourse!" really ought to ponder the possibility that they don't know enough, yet, for an opinion.

Likewise, I have never, ever mentioned fear of invasion by slathering alien hordes.  Not... ever.  The emphasis is on the fact that we simply do not know anything about what's out there, and hence, it might be nice to talk about it a bit, before leaping ahead and shouting "Yoohoo!"  We are the youngest tech-species in a daunting new jungle.  

Shouldn't we consult all our sages?  Historians, biologists, philosophers, legal scholars, before letting one small group of radio astronomers decide our destiny, rolling dice based on their own assumptions?

Generally, first contacts between species... and between Earth cultures... went badly at first.  I hope and pray that won't be the case when we contact others out there.  I have written scores of popular stories about good and bad contact events and I can tell you, the range of possibilities is immense.  Let's talk them over a bit before plunging in.  THAT is all I've asked.

Please read the links given about... the "shouting" link and the "singularities" link.  We can argue decently.  Like informed people.

With cordial regards,

David Brin
http://www.davidbrin.com

There are many different points to address this argument with, but only three important facts: we're sending signals out, those signals won't reach another star for hundreds of years, and we aren't receiving any signals.

I'm seeing alot of arguments in other peoples' comments that are based on assumptions that we can't make.  The 'what do aliens get by invading us' argument, for example, assumes that aliens think like we do.  For all we know, there may be an alien race out there that just likes to kill things for no logical reason (come to think of it, I think that race is here).  The 'any alien race that can get to us wouldn't want to hurt us' argument makes the same fallacy.  The 'damage is already done because we've been sending signals out for years' argument is not a sure bet.  Maybe the signals we've sent are too low power to be detected by aliens.  Maybe our signals have been overshadowed by astronomical events like novae or gamma ray bursts (we won't see these events, if they are happening now, for years).  Maybe our signals haven't reached any intelligent races yet. There are simply too many unknowns to say that we are safe in sending these signals out.  By actively sending signals into space we are essentially standing on top of the Eiffel Tower during a violent thunderstorm and we're merely lucky that we haven't been electrocuted yet.  It's time to come down and go inside.
[B.S.] Sure, and I suppose the aliens might be terrorists, as well, huh?
They remain silent because we are of no consequence. We are likely so inconsequential that a message from us is tantamount to a buzz from a bug to us. They don't want our world because it, too, is inconsequential. There are probably as many habitable planets in the universe as stars in the sky (literally).

I'll add a bit of information here:

1. I did refer to the fear of alien invasion in the first paragraph of this item, but since David feels this is a bit misleading, I'm softening that reference somewhat.

2. On how much can be heard from Earth ... Seth Shostak said in his paper that TV signals don't go all that far before they disperse, while military radar signals go farther. Here's how SETI @ Home addressed the topic in their FAQ:

http://seticlassic.ssl.berkeley.edu/faq.html#q4.1



"What sort of spectrum is currently being emitted by earth? Is that signal visible say 10 or 50 light years away? If SETI were on a planet say 10-50 light years from here and running this project there, would it be able to detect earth's signal (assuming it was looking in our direction)?

"Earth is polluting space with radio and television signals that might be detected by nearby advanced civilizations, but it would be difficult for such a civilization to discover these signals if they only have Earth's current level of technology (eg: if they have an Arecibo like telescope and SETI@home like search).

"Early TV shows like I Love Lucy and Ed Sullivan left the earth about 40 years ago, so have gone out 40 light years, reaching several thousand nearby stars. But these signals are relatively weak and SETI@home is not likely to detect the equivalent of Earth type TV transmitters, even on the nearest stars.

"Earth's strongest transmitters might be somewhat easier to detect, such as those emitted by military radars, or some radio telescopes. The Arecibo telescope transmits very powerful signals when it is used as a radar system to study planets, asteroids and the ionosphere. These radar signals are powerful enough to be detected 10,000 light years away by searches like SETI@home, except for three big caveats:

"a) The Arecibo transmissions are in a very tight beam (they are not omnidirectional, like TV and military radar), so they only cover a very small part of the sky at once (about a millionth of the total sky). It is unlikely another civilization will be within one of these narrow beams.

"b) The Arecibo transmitter's oldest signals left Earth about 30 years ago, so have only travelled 30 light years.

"c) SETI@home is not searching the band of frequencies that the Arecibo transmitters utilize (although our older SERENDIP III program did survey one of those bands)."

[Alan here again...] 3. I've tried to get in touch with Seth, but he's out of the office. Nevertheless, he addressed many of the issues related to transmitting signals to E.T. in this 2006 article:

http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_transmit_060525.html

How weak of a signal will we be able to detect in a hundred years...in a thousand?  In a thousand years, we could probably detect a signal broadcast from a trucker's CB radio in 2008 and bounced back at us from an asteroid in a star system 500 light years away.  We could probably detect a transmitter as powerful as our most powerful today from the other side of the known universe.

The issue of signaling ET directly is irrelevant.  If they are out there and listening with instruments that are sufficiently advanced, it is inevitable that they will detect us.  

If they are also as advanced socially as they are technologically, given the dubious nature of the signals emerging from Earth, they will probably not be in a hurry to contact us.  More likely, they will put an interstellar quarantine on our whole solar system.
Forgot all outer world life forms and remember that it is the Intelligence that is beyond space and time and on this planet, humans can be receptive to it and we all are a blend of it right now, but a weak one.
Jesus had more of this divine intelligence flowing, and Einstein mentioned it came from outside.
So, take more time each us to increase the trickle to a flow, like so many others have written about and it is that heaven within and we are all Gods and all miracles of Jesus attributed to it, and perhaps the only solution to global warming, which looks like the wrath of God from the Old Testament days.  We have many more live prophets today and I feel great scientists only need tweeking a little by Intelligence willing to tweak when the human form is receptive to It and not presenting lower self interference.  It is increasing the blend of lower self and higher self and I feel our divine human right and let the political systems adjust to that.
The more people turn within from this current outer ward view, the more realized that Intelligence is behind all of nature, makes trees of seeds, and we are the same and have no rights to ignore nature and destroy it for human comforts.  Not only wine from water and one fish to feed many, but consider 1 billion Jesus like human forms, like he said we are all Gods, but perhaps the ability to multiply earths.
We as humans can't get to the next star system using all of earth's resources.  I think we can move much quicker within this Intelligence that dwells within, which is beyond Space and Time limitations and now being practiced in secret and not realized as a divine right for all people.  Hard to build a military with people who love all people, so there are some obstructions at odds with this.  I would say that the great scientists have a higher blend of this higher self alongside their lower self created at age 2 or so and conditioned and trained and educated but at the same time a higher self nourishment flowing and not the normal trickle that most now have.









I think that we should not encourage contact between ourselves and civilisations out there, if any exist. The universe is a big place and we are arrogant to even assume that 'aliens' will come here for whatever reason.

On the other hand we are creating a noose for ourselves and we are running a huge risk for everyone on earth.

[...]
Whats disturbing to me is the lack of understanding of the scope of the potential problem.  The situation is that we are dealing with an unknown that is UNKNOWABLE.  We are talking about aliens as if they were our neighbors.  Keep in mind that what the word "alien" means is something outside of our experience.  These are not illegal aliens, these are true alien beings.  How can any of us, any of you, possibly be so arrogant as to quote statistics, probabilities, and percentages regarding the likelihood of intentions of something that is by definition unknowable?  Not one single person on this planet has any ability to know what experiences and motivations an alien race may be operating under.  Not one person on this planet knows anything about timelines of civilizations other than our own and to draw inferences to alien civilizations from the one lonely example (ours) is ridiculous in the extreme.  Think and then think again.  When it comes to this, we are all wrong.  Count on it.
If aliens were hostile they wouldn't bother with war. War is expensive, it depletes resources, and losses can have negative responses back home. That said, a race so advanced to be able to travel the vastness of the galaxy, would do the most efficient, cheapest, and quickest attack. None of that Signs, Independence Day, or Star Wars crap. Biological weapons, alien advanced bio-weapons, maybe DNA specific. If today's human bio-weapons are good and relatively dirt cheap, imagine what technology that is thousands of years more advanced could do. And they could do it from the safety of ships in orbit. That's what hostile aliens would do, we wouldn't even know they were bad and there would be no one to talk about.
Sure, it´s possible that we could face consequences from these transmissions (negative, or otherwise).  Is it likely?  Probably not.
We've been 'broadcasting' the presence of life on Earth for billions of years. Any alien distantly observing our atmosphere will see that it has a rich and persistent O2 atmosphere which is indicative of life. As the earth passes in front of the sun our atmospheric EM spectra can be seen by any technological civilization, just as we have already done with some extra-solar planets.
I don’t think it really matters either way.  On the one hand if there are advanced civs out there they would most probably be interacting amongst themselves. We would look like the little kid crying to play with the big kids and not get much attention until we grow up a bit.  On the other if they're out to eat our faces, eventually we would be found and still so far behind technologically that no matter how much time passes we wouldn’t stand a chance. So I think this whole issue is a lot to do about nothing.
Sence
There have been numerous societies on our own world that thought they were isolated, safe, stronger than anyone out there, but they became conquered and enslaved by people they considered "aliens".  Let's not make the same arrogant mistake that many of our ancestors have made.  And only 100 years ago, no one on this planet thought we would be traveling to space.  
Two things come to mind concerning alien contact 1. we think they will conform to our preconceived humanistic ethical and behavioral models, which they most likely will not; 2. to them WE may be nothing more than food-stuff!  


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=1198808

Latest Tech & Science News

Syndicate This Site

Add Cosmic Log to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google