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Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

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Doomsday lawsuit dissed

Posted: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 8:48 PM by Alan Boyle


Maximilien Brice / CERN
A hardhat worker is dwarfed by the inner workings of the Large Hadron
Collider's ATLAS detector. Click on the image for a larger version.

The federal government today struck back in force against a lawsuit that has raised an alarm over the world's biggest particle collider. In 40 documents comprising hundreds of pages, attorneys and government officials contended that "scientifically, there is no basis for any conceivable threat" from black holes or the other theoretical horrors posed in the suit.

If the government has its way, the lawsuit would be thrown out on procedural grounds even before getting to the scientific arguments.

The civil suit, filed in Hawaii's U.S. District Court in March, contends that Europe's Large Hadron Collider might destroy the earth by creating microscopic black holes or other exotic phenomena. The plaintiffs in the case - Spanish science writer Luis Sancho and Walter Wagner, a retired nuclear physicist who lives in Hawaii - want the court to put a hold on collider operations to leave more time for safety reviews.

Sancho and Wagner's call for a go-slow approach runs counter to the prevailing scientific view that the LHC poses no globe-gobbling risk. Just last Friday, Europe's CERN nuclear research organization issued a safety report reiterating that view - and in today's filings, the U.S. Department of Energy said it accepted the findings of that report, as well as earlier reports that came to similar conclusions.

Critics have tried to poke holes in those safety reports, but one of the documents filed today says the Energy Department "is not aware of a single instance where the conclusions of those reports have been contested or rebutted in any particle physics peer-reviewed or scholarly forum."

Legal matters
As expected, the Justice Department attorneys who are representing the Energy Department as well as the National Science Foundation, laid out several lines of defense in addition to recapping CERN's scientific evidence. The procedural matters are likely to come up first when the motion to squelch the suit is considered at a hearing in September.

The federal government says the lawsuit should be thrown out because:

  • It was filed after the statute of limitations ran out for contesting U.S. involvement in the LHC project. Although federal agencies have been paying out the money for years - and will continue to support experiments at the LHC - the government argues that the key dates for the statute of limitations are 1998 and 1999, when the agencies decided to award funds.

  • All the U.S. funding for LHC construction has been depleted, and CERN is now fully in charge of the collider and its detectors. The government says the federal courts would thus have no jurisdiction over the operations in Europe. One of the documents filed today is a letter from CERN, saying that French and Swiss authorities have found no fault with its radiation safety procedures. Those authorities have concluded that "no safety risk exists," said Maurizio Bona, the head of CERN's safety commission.

  • The plaintiffs have not demonstrated that they have standing. The government says that the claims of potential injury are "overly speculative and not credible," that any potential injury is not fairly traceable to the federal government, and that the plaintiffs have no geographical or other particular connection to the federal government's actions.

  • Even if the court ordered a stop to U.S. involvement in the LHC, it would make no difference - because the experiments at the collider would simply go ahead without federally funded scientists. "There is not any effective relief that the court can order," the government's brief says.

In fact, one Energy Department official was quoted as saying that holding up U.S. involvement in the LHC experiments could do harm.

"There is a very good possibility that important scientific discoveries will be made at the LHC during very early LHC operations," Bruce Strauss, a program manager in the Energy Department's Office of High Energy Physics, said in one of the declarations filed today. "If U.S. physicists were enjoined from participating in experiments during that period, the U.S. would miss the early scientific benefits from its $531 [million] investment in the LHC." 

The government is seeking a summary judgment to drop the suit, based on the statute of limitations, or a dismissal based on the other grounds. Even if the suit goes forward, the government argues that Fermilab, one of the parties named by Sancho and Wagner, should be dropped from the list of defendants because it's not a legal entity separate from the Energy Department.

Plaintiff stays the course
"Of course we're going to oppose the motion," Wagner told me when I called him in Hawaii. He was still absorbing the text of documents, but he contested many of the government's claims - even the idea that Fermilab should be dropped from the suit.

He was intrigued by the claim that federal agencies' role in the LHC was totally finished.

"That's a strong argument, but I don't know if it's true or not," he said. "They're claiming that 'all we're going to do is sit back and watch,' and I don't believe that's true."

Wagner also took issue with CERN's latest safety report, although he said he was still reviewing it.

"With a safety study of this nature, you have to leave no stone unturned, and that hasn't yet been done. ... There are some valid concerns regarding some of the assumptions they're making." he said.

The bottom line for Wagner is that he'd like to have more time before the court's next hearing. "I don't want to be picking a date anytime soon for this," he said. "I'm going to request that they schedule a hearing at least three months down the road."

He also noted that CERN itself, which was named as a defendant in the lawsuit, wasn't off the hook. "CERN is in default," Wagner said. But does a European particle-physics lab come under federal jurisdiction? If you accept the arguments outlined in today's federal filings, the answer would likely be no.

What do you think? Feel free to add your comments and your questions below. Sometime in the next few days, I'm planning to interview one of the scientists behind CERN's safety report - and I'll try to pass along some of your questions about the Large Hadron Collider and the science behind the risk assessment.

Update for 9:30 p.m. ET June 24: I don't think I'll try posting all 40 documents (declarations, exhibits, etc.), but here's a PDF file of the federal defendants' key memorandum filed today.

Update for 1 p.m. ET June 25: The government's brief bases its motion for a summary judgment to end the suit on the idea that it's been more than six years since federal agencies awarded the funds for the LHC - and therefore the statute of limitations has run out. However, Morris Pripstein, the National Science Foundation's U.S. LHC program manager, notes that funds were awarded last year for research on the LHC. Doesn't that mean the time clock should be reset?

"Regarding the statute of limitations, the declaration by Pripstein squares with the government's arguments because we are arguing that the statute of limitations has run out on construction of the collider," Justice Department spokesman Andrew Ames told me in an e-mail. "The government's argument does not extend to the funding that NSF provided for testing and preparation of the detectors, or any funding for the upcoming research experiments."

Meanwhile, Wagner told me in a voicemail that he would contest the government's motion to dismiss the case merely by asserting that his complaint is valid - and that he'd contest the motion for summary judgment on the grounds that he saw no sworn affidavit relating to the motion. All this gets into legalistic waters that I hesitate to plumb. In the end, it'll be up to the judge in the case to sort out the procedural issues.

Update for 12:01 p.m. ET June 26: The Justice Department's Andrew Ames says the court has set a hearing on the motion to squelch the lawsuit on Sept. 2, "which means plaintiff's opposition is due on August 15 and our reply is due on August 22."

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Comments

Can you define 'frivolous'? this is it. Next the plaintiffs would have us believe that time would stop and the entire universe would come to an end!! This is just a bid for publicity and notariety by two lonely souls. Sad.
NOOO! DONT TURN IT ON! THE LORD XENU COMMANDS THAT WE NEVER OPEN THE PORTAL TO THE MULTI VERSE WE CANNONT FREE GALACTUS!
Have these people spent more than 10 minutes researching their amazingly ridiculous claim?

Does the LHC have the power to create microscopic black holes? Yes it does, its' in fact one of the most interesting parts about the collider and one of the most anticipated areas of study.

People who think they're going to eat the world whole probably haven't ever taken a physics course though...
Quote "not aware of a single instance where the conclusions of those reports have been contested or rebutted in any particle physics peer-reviewed or scholarly forum."

Actually CERN's own SPC Committee that gave the LSAG Safety Report its stamp of approval did so with a disclaimer that puts the entire report back into the category of "open question".

Quote "this argument relies on properties of cosmic rays and neutrinos that, while highly plausible, do require confirmation" - SPC Committee

This report is not well advertised that I can determine, but here it is:  http://indico.cern.ch/getFile.py/access?contribId=20&resId=0&materialId=0&confId=35065

Unfortunately there is not a single irrefutable argument for the safety of creating micro black holes with velocities too slow to escape Earth. Not one.

Three strongly disputed assumptions… Micro Black holes are created or not, decay or not, grow slowly or not.

I hope I'm miscalculating, but I fear this might be a bit like playing Russian Roulette and not knowing how many cylinders are loaded, none, all?

LHCFacts.org (Don't miss this funny music video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1L2xODZSI4)
I smell a sci-fi movie plot!;)
Here is the direct report the Saftey Group: http://lsag.web.cern.ch/lsag/LSAG-Report.pdf

Note specifically this portion of the introduction: "The LHC reproduces in the laborator, under controlled conditions, collisions of at centre-of-mass energies less than those reached in the atmosphere by some of the cosmic rays that have been bombarding the Earth for billions of years"

"but I fear this might be a bit like playing Russian Roulette and not knowing how many cylinders are loaded" - if that were the case, then Mother Nature has been playing it with Earth for 4 billion years.

This is what drives me nuts about the doomsdayers like Mr. Tankersley - this collider still won't be creating collisions of as high of energy as occur in nature *already*.
Mr. Boyle, about the most that can be said of these sad old worry-warts is that they have had their 15-minutes of fame. Please, move on, there is nothing interesting here.
Exactly when is the first day of LHC operation??? --  Since it may be our last day on Earth.
Astrophysics newbie here, just wondering about some background.

Could someone explain why a "microscopic black hole" doesn't pose any threat to physically damage something?  Or if it does, what sort of damage, and why would it be insignificant?

I'm just curious about the science behind the harmlessness.  Essentially, my question is, if a mini-black-hole were created, what would happen?
I don't see the harm in waiting a few months for some peer review.  You really can't be to careful when you're talking about ending existence.
To honestly suspect that a black hole generated by one this instrument will remain stable enough to do much of anything is pathetically ignorant...no matter how funny the YouTube music video is.
A single black hole out of control, and our last remnants would be the TV waves radiated to space, which might tell others how we wiped ourselves out.

Whether the collider should be started, I think is still a matter of more research, we must be sure that it wont finish us.
CERN judging their own LHC is safe is like a drunk deciding he's all right to drive... with 6,700,000,000 passengers.
Who cares about a Higgs Boson particle or some quark gluon soup except a handful of frustrated nerds who have run out of ideas and have to experiment with forces they don't even understand. These frazzled physicists waste money and energy time and time again building atom smasher after atom smasher and end up with more questions, not answers. Now they've built one so powerful they say themselves it will create mini black holes at the rate of one per second! Which would change your life more; knowing they found some particle or getting crushed and sucked into a black hole along with everyone and every thing you ever cared about?
That sound like a good risk vs. benefit to you?!? Just because you can't wrap your mind around it does not mean it can't happen.
See for yourself;
http://www.risk-evaluation-forum.org/anon1.htm
http://www.LHCDefense.org/
http://www.LHCFacts.org
http://www.SaneScience.org/
Popular Mechanics - "World's Biggest Science Project Aims to Unlock 'God Particle'" - http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/extreme_machines/4216588.html"
The comment by James Tankersley contains false and misleading statements on the SPC report. The selected quote refers to the possibility of extending the complete safety proof, that has been provided for the LHC, to colliders of much higher energies that could be conceived for the distant future.

The conclusions of the SPC report on the LHC are quite clear: "To summarize, we fully endorse the conclusions of the LSAG report: there is no basis for any concerns about the consequences of new particles or forms of matter that could possibly be produced at the LHC."

Enrique Fernandez
chair of the CERN Scientific Policy Committee

Fabio Zwirner
member of the CERN Scientific Policy Committee
and coordinator of the SPC review panel

WOW....   10min in a physics class would tell you this is a joke.  Besides we have NO athority over CERN.  These too lonely souls just want to try and push their scare tactics to try and stop humans as a whole from advancing.....  Run little guy run!
Next they are going to sue Bill Gates, because of the possibility that a cyberknetic organism from the future might travel back in time to wipe out a boy named John Conner.  Geesh people.  
There is a very good reason the LHC will not produce black holes:  The calculations done by Chandrakasar on the process of stellar collapse.  His calculations demonstrated that a mass of at least 1.4 solar masses are needed for a black hole to form.  This minimum mass is known as the Chandrakasar Limit.

The equivalent mass of the particles in the LHC, based on energy values, is less than that of a tennis ball.  This is many orders of magnitude less than the Chandrakasar Limit.
oh so now the US wants control over CERN and the collider? Why do you want to dictate what to do to all the rest of the world, I do not understand..
Now, GTFO please.
The United States invested 531 MILLION?  That is the most alarming part to me...No wonder our economy is so bad with the frivilous way our government literally throws away our tax dollars, meanwhile our kids are getting a horrible education.  Ummm that money would have been better spent elsewhere.
Well, the good news is that if the crazies are right this time, none of us will ever know. *poof*
"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"
Surely they can't be serious
Ah, although as one trained in physics I have no concerns about this going forth, it does remind me of the quote of mankind's last words: "Hey, look! It worked!"
I agree with Sam of STL,  what a bunch of grand standing for name recognition.  Deflate your egos boys and drop it.  What losers.  

"If we can't make a name for ourselves by doing something useful in the community we will do it by being a royal pain in the ass"
Can I sue people who irresponsibly pray to deities? What if a poorly-phrased prayer caused God to turn us all into salt? Let's get a restraining order for 1000 years until we're sure nothing will go wrong. I swear, it's like watching kindergartners play.
Microscopic black-holes or not, the human race is destined for greatness.  Great discoveries or great destruction.  It is a fallacy to believe anything we do here on earth is anything other than the natural course of human evolution.

We are here at this impasse for the purpose of discovering why we can never agree with eachother.  Fear is the cause of our distrust in others, distrusting ourselves as well.

God never wanted us to kill eachother over what we don't know about him anyway.  Just live and be happy and protect your rights as a living entity of the universe.

The world will not end by our hands, the path cannot be taken without the prior approval of a vast conglomerate of entities throughout the galaxy.

Yes I'm wierd, and crazy, and possibly completely insane.  But that doesn't mean that I'm wrong.

I like to chat
              whyzguy3000@hotmail.com
I think it is fair to question the "conclusions" of the CERN-generated safety report(s), since the authors clearly have a vested interest in seeing the project get underway.  Theoretical physics is, after all, theoretical - and jumping into the release of massive energies with even a remote potential of (major)harm in order to attempt to prove the theories (which is, of course, the scientific model) is seriously risky.  This is not a lab experiment which is containable with minimal damage if it does produce unpredicted results. The major point here is that the risks are to the entire planet earth and life itself as we know it.  That makes the decision rightfully that of all humankind - not just a scientific panel somewhere, however well-intentioned they may be.

On the other hand, from a legal prespective I think these two Hawaii-based individuals don't have a prayer of truly affecting the progress of the LHC and CERN.  They are clearly over-reaching the jurisdiction of the Hawiian U.S. District Court and they seem utterly unlikely to have any effect in Europe this way.  So, to my mind, the best they can hope to do is to bring more public attention to the situation.  In this regard they are clearly succeeding - but perhaps only among those of us who read Alan Boyle's Log.  :)
Ya know, more than 60 years ago, during the project to develop the atomic bomb, some scientists voiced concerns that detonating such a device could possibly lead to a runaway nuclear reaction in Earth's atmosphere, thus destroying the planet. These people have the same mentality of those who warned sailors they'd fall off the world if they sailed too far... Some people are just afraid of unexplored territory, so sad.
A rogue micro-black-hole might open and destroy France? The French have probably already surrendered.
Ah, so this is going to be Half-Life in RL ;)
To be fair to the guys filing the suit, all physics experiments dealing with events that could possibly generate something that could damage the planet really shouldn't be performed on Earth. Nuclear weaponry is a good example of this, as the US has irradiated a large portion of North America thanks to the Nevada testing. It may be low level doses, but that doesn't change the fact that while we were experimenting we knew next to nothing about the forces we were dealing with.

The entire prospect of particle physics is both intriguing and potentially dangerous and the chance of progress, if the expense is the environment or human life, is not always worth it. Ideally, this would be research that should be performed on another planet, far enough away so that it would not provide any sort of threat. Unfortunatly we haven't developed far enough in the past few decades to be able to do that.

Most likely this research will proceed and they will gain valuable insite into the workings of the universe however it is not a trend we should readily accept.

I'll again refer back to the birth of nuclear power on this planet, with it we have introduced one of the most destructive forces in the universe into our society.

Would people today be willing to allow such research to progress? Though this is a paradoxical question we have to question all aspects of high level science and wonder if it is really worth the risk.
Oh, please.  Filing ridiculous lawsuits is a fantastic way of getting publicity, and seeing as one of the two plaintiffs is an author...hmm.  That's one effective publicity-mongering stunt.  The fact that his counterpart, however, is a "retired nuclear physicist" kind of scares me, though...

Either way, other than the fact that these two have come up with some sci-fi movie-worthy claims about the end of the world being brought on by "exotic matter" or other such nonsense (please explain how, as the LHC's reactions occur naturally all through the universe, this "exotic matter" isn't...I don't know...everywhere?), I think I'm going to file a lawsuit against the atmosphere and all of its affiliates for thinning and allowing more UV rays through and putting us all at risk.  The world MAY end courtesy of that, after all...right.

Besides - when has scientific progress ever been made without some element of risk?
There is no progress without risk.  We must boldly take steps into the unknown, to walk into a room and turn the lights on.  Humankinds curious nature is to do this researh not because it is easy but becasue it is hard.
Ok, so I am a big supporter of scientific research.  Black holes are one of the greatest discoveries and mysteries out there and the fact that we're making inroads to understanding them is, in a word, amazing.

That said, how can someone say without a doubt that 'Oh, that won't happen' or 'this is perfectly safe' when we've only begun scratching the surface on this research? Everyday we learn new things that debunk previously held beliefs in science, physics, and the natural world.  Black holes are created amongst some of the most powerful forces in the cosmos, and we think we can predict and understand them in a matter of years?

So am I for continuing research?  Absolutely. But please, please, please, take the time to do it right. Because when you're playing with forces of this magnitude-- even in small quantities in controlled environments-- the consequences of faulty assumptions could be huge. And the Universe doesn't offer do-overs.
James - if you read the brief SPC Committee report you linked, you will see that the remaining concerns that you refer to apply ONLY to collision energies much higher than those to be explored by the LHC. The conclusion the committee draws is unequivocal - [quote]               we fully endorse the conclusions of the LSAG report: there is no basis for
any concerns about the consequences of new particles or forms of matter that could
possibly be produced at the LHC.[/quote]

Has anyone asked Stephen Hawking or Richard Feynman their opinions?  I bet they have some pretty opinions FOR this apparatus.  

[ALAN ADDS: Unfortunately, Richard Feynman is dead, although I'd love to know if his writings would shed any light on the current issue.

[Stephen Hawking was asked about this black-hole scenario in an LA Times interview a couple of months ago:

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/12/science/sci-hawking12

["Q: If black holes are created in the Large Hadron Collider, will we be in danger of getting eaten up by them?

["A: The LHC is absolutely safe. There is no danger that collisions between particles at the LHC will cause a rip in space-time and destroy the universe. Particles from collisions far greater than those in the LHC occur all the time in cosmic rays, but nothing terrible happens."

[By the way, the background materials filed by the government note that micro black holes would be created at the LHC only if classical general relativity wasn't quite right due to the effect of extradimensional physics. Also, the materials say that the black holes would not be totally "black" ... Hawking also addressed the question of not-quite-black holes in the LA Times interview:

["Q: According to general relativity, white holes, the opposite of black holes, which spew matter into the universe, can exist. But we’ve never found them. What would we see with our telescopes if we did?

["A: When black holes are large, things fall in. but they give off very little Hawking radiation. So they are essentially black. But when they are very small they radiate more than they accrete. So they are essentially white. Black and white holes are the same, just with different boundary conditions. If the boundary conditions are that particles are going in, but nothing is coming out, we call it a black hole. On the other hand, if the boundary conditions are that particles are going out but nothing is coming in, we call it a white hole."]

The truth of the matter is that the LHC is one of the last unexplored frontiers of science.  Do we know exactly what will happen when it is fired up?  No, we quite simply do not.  Scientists think they know what will happen, but hey, the've been wrong before.

But by the same token, a lot of people thought that Columbus would sail off the edge of the Earth trying to find the New World, and no one really knew what would happen when we exploded the first atom bomb or shot a man into space either.

What has happened to our society that we are afraid of scientific explortaion?

Buy me a ticket over there and I'll 'turn the key' myself.

Best of luck to the LHC scientists.
Seems to me that it would be basic common sense to err on the side of caution.  I'm all for scientific exploration and "let's see what happens when we mix this with fire", but we are exploring new territory here (theoretically sound but unpracticed is still new territory, and it would be arrogant to assume otherwise).  The odds of a catastrophic or 'negative' side-effect may be a million to one, but it's one of those things you would hate to be wrong on, and if there is the chance that no one would be around to regret it or be held accountable, shouldn't we do the responsible thing and look at reasonable safety/countermeasures, or some sort of 'pre-experiment track record' rather than "we should be o.k."?  Even the response "nothing to indicate a potential threat" indicates that the project team is fine with basing decisions only on what they know, not what they don't know.  Assuming you know more than what you don't know is assuming too much.

No micro black holes 'may' appear, or the Earth's gravity 'may not' be slightly altered sending us spinning into the sun.  Heck, it may only cause a 'small' positron explosion taking out only 'most' of Europe.  Who knows for sure?  No one.  So why gamble with such stakes? I'm sure there were a few explosions in the lab during the discovery of gunpowder before Chinese scientists knew what they had. Is a few years more of deliberation and inspection on behalf of prudence asking too much?  Once we reach a more agreed-upon mark of 'reasonable' prudence and confidence, then I say go for it, but how do we determine what is "reasonable prudence"?  That should be the next debate.
Notice where the Lawsuit is being addressed?  Even though it is Mr. Wagner home state, Hawaii is a liberal state, hence passing laws or judgements through the Judiciary bench instead of the Legislative branch of our government.  Our Congress has already passed laws to give money to the project which they used.  One judge will control the opening of universal knowledge.  Is he a Scientist or anti-science?  You will have no choice.  Some Judges consider it only their's to make laws from the bench, not uphold the ones made by the congress and signed by the Presidents.
GEEEZZZZ! I hope they don't plan to start this thing up on December 21st 2012!!!
We created the first atom bomb.  We cannot stop the march of science, even if it kills us.  The atom bomb would have been created by someone else, if not us.  If the results of the experiments prove dangerous, it would happen at some point in history because scientific exploration will march on.  Until we are gone for good.  It's in our nature.  But that doesn't mean there should not be oversight and care taken in the process of running the experiments.  
The sky is falling, the sky is falling. You bunch of chicken littles.
Now, I'm not that bright, but even I know that the LHC won't be creating any black holes bigger than the ones that naturally appear all over Earth at all times.  Yes, they naturally occur.  But since they can't reach critical mass, they disappear within nanoseconds.  Maybe certain folks need to start leafing through a few basic physics books.
Never trust a quote taken out of context. Since copy-paste is so easy, and James gave the reference so he knows it, it's obvious he has his own agenda and is using scare tactics to try and accomplish his ends.  Here is the entire paragraph. The out-of-context quote by James above is really a side discussion talking about using Neutron Stars to quantify any risk from a collider with much higher energy than the LHC.  

Shame on you James for playing the "quote out of context" game on these readers.

And I quote:  

"In particular, at the LHC energy, any danger for the Earth on time scales lower than or comparable to the natural lifetime of the solar system can be ruled out on the basis of its contradiction with the observation of white dwarf stars of known mass, age and other properties. This conclusion, while entirely valid for the LHC, would need further work to be extended to conceivable future colliders of much higher energies. A powerful argument applicable also to higher energies is formulated making reference to observed neutron stars, but this argument relies on properties of cosmic rays and neutrinos that, while highly plausible, do require confirmation, as can be expected in the coming years."
Dear Mr. Fairchild,
""Hawaii is a liberal state, hence passing laws or judgements through the Judiciary bench instead of the Legislative branch of our government.""
So you are saying that conservative judges do not do the same thing?
Just because something is "true" to you does not make it "true" for the rest of us.
I find it hilarious that people are getting worked up over an experiment that cannot, in any way whatsoever, harm mankind or Earth. Anyone with any background in physics or astronomy should know that no harm can come from the LHC. In addition, we have already conducted experiments similar to the ones scheduled to be done at the LHC. Come on people! This is proven science, more dangerous things are done by children with matches.
Go, LHC go.  I have read all the blogs above and believe only the uninformed are raising concern.  I am not a physicist but have had some training. Joan referred to the Chandrakasar Limit which is one approach.  I believe another is to consider the event horizon.  That is the danger posed by a black hole.  The black hole does not simply reach out and pull stuff in.  You have to get inside the event horizon. I believe if you calculate the size of the event horizon formed by the black hole from the impact of protons head-on, it's radius will be very small, even too small to trap adjacent atoms.  After all, our galaxy, the Milkyway, has a giant black hole at it's center and I haven't heard anyone being concerned about the earth being sucked in. I think people who are filing law suits against the LHC should do some simple math calculations.  The only winners in this suit are the lawyers!
"Dissed"? A question over the most complicated big science project is "dissed"? What up, yo, got any REAL words to describe this with?

"Dissed". Jesus.
Mr. Fairchild is simply suggesting that the law suit was filed in Hawaii because not even the judges in California could read it out loud without laughing.
So, if the morning after they fire this thing up and you wake up to find you don't exist, know that I said goodbye and thought well of you.


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