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Report rules out subatomic doomsday

Posted: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:57 PM by Alan Boyle


CERN
A simulation shows the particle tracks that scientists
think could be given off by the decay of a black hole
in the Large Hadron Collider's ATLAS detector.

Europe's CERN particle-physics lab has issued its long-awaited report on safety issues surrounding the Large Hadron Collider, the world's biggest and most expensive atom-smasher. Some have feared that when the collider reaches full power, sometime next year, it might create microscopic black holes or other exotic phenomena that could endanger Earth. The new report, like earlier safety studies, rules out the possibility of global danger.

Critics of the collider are pursuing a federal lawsuit challenging the safety claims - and they're likely to continue the doomsday debate even in the wake of this report.

The report's argument follows the basic line used in past reports: Even the most energetic collisions planned for the LHC are far less powerful than cosmic-ray collisions that have been going on for billions of years.

"Nature has already generated on Earth as many collisions as about a million LHC experiments – and the planet still exists," CERN said in its lay-language summary of the report. "Astronomers observe an enormous number of larger astronomical bodies throughout the universe, all of which are also struck by cosmic rays. The universe as a whole conducts more than 10 million million LHC-like experiments per second. The possibility of any dangerous consequences contradicts what astronomers see - stars and galaxies still exist."

The report also delves into the theoretical implications even if it turns out that microscopic black holes may hang around longer than most scientists think, and still ends up ruling out the catastrophic risk. In the stable-black-hole scenario, physicists do not expect the black holes to gobble up matter and grow to a monster size. Instead, they would interact - or not interact - with the particles they came across.

You'll want to start with CERN's summary document and then check out the full report. The report was reviewed by outside experts, and a separate report lays out what they had to say.

CERN discussed the safety report in a news release today, issued after this week's meeting of the CERN Council. Here's the text:

"At its 147th meeting in Geneva today, the CERN Council heard news on progress towards start-up of the laboratory's flagship research facility, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC). Commissioning of the 27-kilometre LHC began in January 2007 when the first cooldown of one of the machine's eight sectors began. Today, five sectors are at or close to their operating temperature of 1.9 degrees above absolute zero and the remaining three are approaching that temperature. Once all sectors are cold, electrical testing will be concluded in readiness for first beams, currently scheduled for August.

"'The accelerator, detectors and computing are all on course,' said CERN Director General Robert Aymar, 'and we are looking forward to the earliest possible LHC start-up.'

"When the LHC starts up this summer, its proton beams will collide at higher energies than have ever been produced in a particle accelerator. The collision energy of the LHC, however, is modest compared to the energies of the cosmic ray protons that have been striking the Earth's atmosphere for billions of years.

"'The LHC is the highest-energy particle accelerator on Earth,' said Dr. Aymar, 'but the universe has far more powerful ones. The LHC will enable us to study in detail under laboratory conditions what nature is doing already.'

"The LHC is subject to numerous audits covering all aspects of safety and environmental impact. The latest of these, addressing the question of whether there is any danger related to the production of new particles at the LHC, was presented to Council at this meeting. Updating a 2003 paper, this new report incorporates recent experimental and observational data.

"It confirms and strengthens the conclusion of the 2003 report that there is no cause for concern. The report was prepared by a group of scientists at CERN, the University of California, Santa Barbara, and the Institute for Nuclear Research of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

"'With this report, the Laboratory has fulfilled every safety and environmental evaluation necessary to ensure safe operation of this exciting new research facility,' said Dr. Aymar.

"The new report has been reviewed by the Scientific Policy Committee (SPC), a body that advises the CERN Council on scientific matters. A panel of five independent scientists, including one Nobel laureate, reviewed and endorsed the authors' approach of basing their arguments on irrefutable observational evidence to conclude that new particles produced at the LHC will pose no danger. The panel presented its conclusions to this week's meeting of the full 20 members of the SPC, who unanimously approved this conclusion.

"'It was right for the Director General of CERN to commission a formal assessment of safety issues, examining even the most unlikely of scenarios,' said Council President Torsten Åkesson. 'This new report concludes that there is no basis for any concern, a position endorsed by the 20 independent experts who form the SPC.'

The news release confirms that researchers will start sending beams through the LHC in August rather than July - but the startup procedure is expected to take months, with actual collisions coming later, and collisions at full power coming later still.

We've been following this issue for a while, and once you've looked over the report, I'm sure you'll want to weigh in with your comments below.

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Comments

phil i couldnt have said it any better myself! BRAVO! BRAVO!
As much as science likes to predict the future and what might happen with any given experiment, it is impossible to do.  If it were true that they could predict the outcome then there would be no reason to do the experiments.  Any of the fields of study which involves predictions, such as economics, meteorology (which is probably the most accurate but still falls miserably short most of the time), etc., are all exercises in futility.  Anything can happen.  Most great discoveries come about by accident, not through predicted results.  It is unsure whether the LHC will cause destruction or give us vast insights into the "god particle" or whether it will produce nothing of significance.  Only the tests themselves will allow us to find out.  Read The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable by Nassim Nicholas Taleb to get a good grasp on just how unpredictable the future is and has been throughout history.
Black holes mystify 'even'the scientists.

I suspect that only a tiny bit about these oddities is known beyond theory. That leaves a lot of potential surprises to worry about. Harking back to the drama going on during the first atomic bomb detonation, I'd bet that the scientists involved at CERN have a lot more invested in faith than pure science.    
So, if you expect the end is coming, it means it's not!
Ok, ok.  What would Jesus do. Would he flip the switch and turn the thing on?  Of course not!  His dad created the universe and he needs no fancy book learnin'.  I'm no scientist and I'm not a believer in God, and from where I sit, there doesn't really seem to be any difference between the two camps on this.  Both sides seem convinced with no lack of certainty that they are right.  I'm pretty sure the religious doomsayers are wrong but ponder this... If the scientist are certain that there is no danger from this machine, it seems to follow that they are pretty certain of what this machine will produce and, if they are so certain of what this machine will produce, why are they spending upwards of 12 Billion USD to manufacture it?  Their reasoning behind it is that it will unlock the mysteries of the universe.  It seems that their justification for building it and their justification for turning it on are at odds with each other.
Sakes, somebody at least google "Doctor Who" and "Omega" before attempting this sort of thing......
Isn't it an Einsteinean concept that as matter (any matter)approaches the speed of light, it's mass approaches infinite mass?  Black hole....no problem.  A chunk of protons of infinite mass.......problem, especially for those residing in Geneva.    
how can u say .... " oh, well the earth gets hit all the time by way more powerful stuff than the LHC"....???!?!?!?
r u serious
if thats ur opinion im glad u came out and said it just to prove u know nothing and now i can laugh at u
LHC moves partices at the speed of light
the sun does not shoot out particles that fast
but much much slower
and we have like the best of the best of the best of magnets maging a beautuful magnetic field to protect us... now we are speeding it up inside a lil tube.... when we knooooooooow that the summer are going to get much much hotters and the electrical blackout could shut down CERN caustion all the matter and antimatter and dark matter what ever is gonna be inside that monster of a sexy yet horrible scary machine... i just hope hey. when the coin is flipped... i hope it lands on life and no death
For God impossible, is a four letter word.
Remember, you can trust a lawyer ,more than a scientist to tell you the truth.
WHEN AN IF THE WOLG COMES TO AN END IT WON'T BE BY THE HAND OF GOD BUT BY THE HAND OF MAN I WORRY NOT FOR MYSELF BUT FOR MY GRANDCHILDREN I SIT IN THE CENTER OF BALLANCE NOT KNOWING WHICH WAY TO LEAN I SUPPORT OUR GREAT SCIENTISTS WE HAVE TO MOVE ON THAT'S THE WAY WE ARE OUR LIVES ARE IN THE HANDS OF THE LHC AS WELL AS ANY OTHER WE DEPEND ON THEM LIKE WE DEPEND ON DOCTORS,CDC,POLICE,FIREMEN AND SO ON LET THE EXPERIMENT GO ON AFTER ALL WE ONLY KNOW ONE WAY TO MOVE AND THAT IS FORWARD WERE ONLY HUMAN GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF YOU AT THE LHC AND MAY GOD GUIDE YOU TO LEARN ALL YOU CAN AND NOT HARM US AGAIN GOOD LUCK
I'm so tired of the uninformed bringing up the end of the Mayan calendar.  That's not entirely accurate.  It's actually the end of the Mayan Long Cycle, and doesn't specifically predict doomsday or the end of the world.  This is not the first Long Cycle to end.  We're still here.  Conclusion:  We'll be here after the end of this Long Cycle too.
This experiment will shed light on the earth and universe, could create ideas for a new power source and most importantly give “yes” and “no” answers to physicists, which hasn’t been done in 50 years.  The study of physics can now move on in old directions or new ones, that can change the human existence, and everyone is afraid of the end of the world.  Without this experiment, the human race will be at this level forever, so what ever risk there is, it is worth it.
If we get a black hole....will it lower gas prices?
Paul van Gent Leiden:  I personally would not call the MRI a 'no-return' for the money.  I am also fairly sure that there are perhaps millions of others that can attribute that device to saving thier lives.  You see, the MRI was made possible by the data collected from partical colliders
As usual, what is conveniently ignored is WHERE the natural collisions tend to occur - at the outermost edge of the atmosphere, where mass is extremely dissipated, and if a mini black hole were to form it would not find enough mass to satisfy its appetite.  But to deliberately create such conditions in solid rock, where a mini black hole would be born in front of a smorgasbord??

To compare apples and oranges in an attempt to make this big-money driven idea appear safer than it is is monumentally irresponsible, and anyone associated with pushing this project forward against the legitimate safety concerns of the entire planet should be arrested and jailed.  They are extremely arrogant and dangerous.
How can anybody know that doomsday will NOT happen? How do 'they' have enough information to determine that it will not happen?
There are 3 things that can happen, it won't work at all which is highly improbable based on earlier verison of colliders; the results will produce some more interesting information of which to me if they could discern the state of 'big bang' before 1 to the -43rd of a second like even futher back to the -45th of a second that would be interesting; or the collider could start a massive reaction that destroys or alters the state of the universe which has a high probability of not happening.
So do it.
People keep arguing about the cosmic rays hitting this planet, but we have the Earth's magnetic field protecting us.
If it appears please have your recyclables separated, step forward, and deposit trash in proper black hole recepticle.
It will finally prove that the world is flat.
I hope that the Gentlemen at CERN asked Gods' permission to fiddle with what he made. He doesn't want us to mess around with things we don't know about. Are we spiritually ready to be like him?? Thank God some scientists do believe in God. Like thos Astronomers, and Astrophysicists that were looking at the Image of the Big Bang and saw what looked like an imense large hand as if saying... Stop! go no further!!
Fear will keep us in the dark and I think we have had enough fear in the past 100 years.  Lets move ahead and see what happens and what other new question we may have.
Solar Panels work during the day, wind fans only work during wind, corn take months to grow and yeild low energy, we oil from our enemies. How dumb are we? The Holy Grail of energy of nuclear fusion. A God given example of how it work is 93,000,000 miles away. The collider will help work out the details. The anti-science want the world to stay dump and in confusion.
Rejoice! Give thanks to god for scientific knowledge!

"It's the end of the world as we know it...

and I feel fine!"

PS.. two pool balls intersecting at equal ( perpendicular ) velocities will reverse their direction of travel, at equal velocity ( the original velocity minus a smidge )  They will NOT just sit there.

Try it.
Keith says "It is unsure whether the LHC will cause destruction or give us vast insights..."

Well, yes, but it's not really a coin flip. If we had good reason to believe it was going to wipe out the Earth, we wouldn't do it. If we didn't think it very likely to turn up the Higgs particle, at least, it would be hard to argue for the funding.

On the mini black hole question: Hawking evaporation is very plausible if not confirmed; mini black hole production is very speculative.

Blogging at onscreen-scientist.com
This bites! I was really looking forward to all the molecules in my body exploding at the speed of light.
Of course this is science fiction, but what if one of these tiny black holes does form and then starts accreating mass?  The entire World would end, sometime after the black hole was created.  
Or What if another deminsional Universe were made during the testing, and ripples throught the existing Universe--would all accidents, Wars, conflict and what not been caused by the development of another Universe baining upon this Universe?

Oh well, the Earth will end sometime...5 Billion years in the future when the Sun has grown to a red giant.  So, life will be just a faded memory...a fossil of existance.  
My old Mac computer, which for some odd reason sounds almost exactly like Stephen Hawking when it reads text, always starts acting up when something cataclysmic is imminent.

It's acting up, folks...
The Hawking theory leaves an open ended question: probabilities can leave some wiggle room for the unknown.  This can play a role of some consequence when dealing with a magnitude of universal significance. I urge caution, and  I suggest  moving in degrees rather than in quantum's
I've lived with a mini-black hole for the next seven years now. Eats only quarks (prefers Strange) and takes up no space (none ... really). Occasionally sucks up car keys and utility bills, screws with my alarm clock (boss will confirm); otherwise, peaceful and quiet. Nothing to fear folks ... really. Hey! Here it co
I guess the cosmic rays striking the Earth are somewhat reassuring (although I don't know enough about them to evaluate this point).  But one of the other points this report makes seems wacko:

"The universe as a whole conducts more than 10 million million LHC-like experiments per second. The possibility of any dangerous consequences contradicts what astronomers see - stars and galaxies still exist."

Right, but stars and galaxies are a bit sturdier than I am.  I don't want to be within a thousand light years (and sometimes further) of some of those experiments!
A mini black hole , the people of Waste Management would love one. ( feed me Semor)
 If I can remember, once upon a time there was a man that said, "Everything had been invented that was to be invented." That's interesting. By stopping thought and interest in everything around us, keeps us stuck on this planet in this tribal warfare we seem to be stuck in. I say let's remove our heads from the sand, like our creator gave us the ability to do, and take the step forward and stop being stuck in fear that keeps us so tribal with OUR own silliness to kill each other. We have been given the ability to reason so use it. We might find there are like minded creatures in the universe aka next-door neighbors, that might decide to be friendly and can help break our ignorance. Like the old saying goes,"Ignorance is vincible." Get a life, smell the roses and quit worring. "Fear is the mindkiller."
i doubt anything bad will happen but we wont know till we turn it on just quit stalling and flip the damn switch

black hole...  interesting, we all die getting suckied into a hole... not very fun, now opining an dimensional gat and relasing all kinds of monsters, and such would be lot better, even if they do whipe out humanity atleast its something we could fight against. as for all you zelots out there, maybe you should read your books again, then read the other guys books and realise they are all the same damn book, and fighting over it is a dumb thing to do
Zealots Playing God! - 'The World is not Enough'
Nobel Prize hungry Physicists are racing each other and stopping at nothing to try to find the supposed 'Higgs Boson'(aka 'God') Particle, among others, and are risking nothing less than the annihilation of the Earth and all Life in endless experiments to try to solve theoretical problems when urgent real problems face the planet. The European Organization for Nuclear Research(CERN) new Large Hadron Collider(LHC) is the world's most powerful atom smasher that will soon be firing subatomic particles at each other at nearly the speed of light to create Miniature Big Bangs producing clouds of Micro Black Holes, Strangelets and other potentially cataclysmic phenomena.
The CERN-LHC website Mainpage itself states quote: "There are many theories as to what will result from these collisions,..." This stunning admission is because they truly don't know what's going to happen. They are experimenting with forces they don't understand to obtain results they can't comprehend. If you think like most people do that 'They must know what they're doing.' you could not be more wrong. Some people think the same thing about medical Dr.s but consider this by way of comparison and example from JAMA: "A recent Institute of Medicine report quoted rates estimating that medical errors kill between 44,000 and 98,000 people a year in US hospitals." The second part of the quote reads "...but what's for sure is that a brave new world of physics will emerge from the new accelerator,..." A molecularly changed or Black Hole consumed Lifeless World? The end of the quote reads "as knowledge in particle physics goes on to describe the workings of the Universe." These experiments to date have so far produced infinitely more questions than answers but there isn't a particle experimentalist physicist alive who wouldn't gladly trade his life to glimpse the "God particle", and sacrifice the rest of us with him.
This quote from National Geographic exactly sums this "science" up: "That's the essence of experimental particle physics: You smash stuff together and see what other stuff comes out."
For more information visit;
http://www.risk-evaluation-forum.org/anon1.htm
http://www.lhcdefense.org/
http://www.lhcconcerns.com
http://www.SaneScience.org/
http://www.LHCFacts.org
Popular Mechanics - "World's Biggest Science Project Aims to Unlock 'God Particle'" - http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/extreme_machines/4216588.html"

There is a mini Black Hole running the United States. Everything flows in but nothing of consequence flows out. We have so far survived.
Maybe we'll get lucky and there WILL be some big disaster and it will wipe out a large part of the human population... you know, cull the herd a little.

Boy do we need it!
CERN judging their own LHC is safe is like a drunk driver deciding he's all right to drive... with 6,700,000,000 passengers.
http://www.LHCFacts.org
http://www.LHCDefense.org
http://www.SaneScience.org
Colliding pool balls that stick together?  Collisions at velocities greater than c?  Douglas, you got a D in physics didn't you?
Douglas:

I recommend you perform your experiment and see what you get. The conditions of your premise is wrong in the first place.

They never said nor implied that the conditions of the cosmic collisions were with the earth itself. In case you live in an informational vacuum, there are more sources of particles traveling at light speed than our sun. There are countless stars and other phenomena that produce particles that travel at the speed of light (or faster). The sheer number of particles in our cosmos that collide with greater energy and intensity all around us would tell you that producing a collision resulting in a micro-black hole with a mass of two protons is NOTHING compared to the forces of nature we live within every moment of every day.

It is egotistical to think like mankind is so powerful compared to the nature of the cosmos in which we exist.

For the religious zealots:

I would only say that you should be ecstatic about the end of the world and the coming of the new heaven and new earth with God's kingdom. For then you would be living with him in a perfect world for eternity (If your souldis truly prepared!).

If I were you, I'd be cheering them on and hoping that it brings forth the end and ushers in the end of time!

For those who are curious and want to learn more about the make up of the cosmos:

I'd say this piece of science will be an exciting time of learning for mankind, and will likely help advance our knowledge to another level.

I for one am a Christian who enjoys science.
Jesus told use to fear not and to be children of light. In science there is no time at the speed of light, and therefore eternal.

God is a God of science and created us in his likeness. What does that tell you about the science of light and particle physics??? It says that these scientist are doing what they were created to do, and therefore one of the most Godly things they can do!

I wish Godspeed to the Scientists of CERN and those who utilize the LHC!
Joe.."LHC moves particles at the speed of light"

Not true. Only photons (Bosons) move at light speed.
Particles are fermions like the elements and ions.
It is not possible to accelerate particles to light speed.

I can't help but getting images as shown in Stephen Kings..The Mist.  Scientists inadvertently opening up a window to a strange universe due to inexact understanding of universal physics...these images are just fantasy however.







well we will go out in a bang ;)
if wee stop learning we stop advancing
As Dave Barry might say, Subatomic Doomsday would be a good name for a rock band.
"Sad news; I was hoping to use one of those tiny black holes to help me clean out my garage!"

No kidding. there goes the worlds answer to secure document shredding and where to store nuclear wast.
Thomas says:"Only photons (Bosons) move at light speed.
Particles are fermions like the elements and ions.
It is not possible to accelerate particles to light speed."

This is a little mixed up. The difference is between massless particles (like photons) and those with mass (like protons). There exist bosons with mass. In fact, observing experimentally the Higgs boson is one of the main achievements hoped for the new accelerator. Presumably the Higgs has not yet been seen in experiments for the very reason that its mass is so high.

Massless particles all travel at the speed of light. They can't help it. Those with mass can't quite get there but they can be accelerated arbitrarily close to the speed of light. Those colliding in the LHC can be said to move at the speed of light without being wrong enough to worry about, except for the basic principle.
We wont spend the money to cure diabetes which causes misery beyond description but we will spend twice as much to find the next piece of an endless puzzle that won't help anyone for hundreds of years.

Basic research in subatomics has long past exceeded in cost any benefits that make it worth while.  These scientists need to get over their self importances and start looking into improving the quality of life for the people their leaching tax dollars from.
You'll have to forgive me as I don't recall the author, but the speculation that something drastic will happen when we bring CERN up to full power was written about in a science fiction short story years ago. That story is exactly what the opponents are speculating will happen. It's as if they plagurized it, and filed it as their complaint.  As near as I can recall the story has the supercollider "switching on", and all heck breaks loose.  Not the destruction of the Earth mind you, but widespread devastation in pockets radiating out from the point of collision. Pure science fiction. I would have been more impressed if they chose a different "doomsday scenario".
The religious zealots do not represent the religious community as a whole. Obviously, not everyone who believes in a god claims to know when the end comes. the bible says man shall not know the day nor the hour. It is possible the end will come through the LHC, everyone should probably admit that.


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