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Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

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No peace over Pluto

Posted: Friday, June 13, 2008 7:12 PM by Alan Boyle


NASA / JHUAPL / SwRI
An artist's conception
shows NASA's New
Horizons probe during its
2015 encounter with Pluto.

The latest round in the planethood debate may well provoke planetary scientists into a revolt against the international body that usually has the last word on astronomical terminology, according to the top scientist for NASA’s mission to Pluto.

This week's announcement from the International Astronomical Union that Pluto and other dwarf planets on the solar system's edge would be known henceforth as "plutoids" has been seen by some as a sign of respect for what was once considered the smallest of the solar system's nine planets.

That's not how Alan Stern, principal investigator for NASA's New Horizons mission to Pluto, sees it. In fact, he wonders whether this will be the last straw for those who think IAU officials badly bungled their definition of a planet almost two years ago.

"They're almost needling the planetary community to go their own way," Stern told me today.

Stern isn't alone - and in fact, there's a wide range of opinions on the planethood question, ranging from outrage to acceptance of the IAU's definition. The main point of contention is the idea that a planet must have "cleared the neighborhood around its orbit" - a definition that Stern maintains could exclude worlds exactly like Earth.

In today's telephone interview, the former NASA associate administrator discussed Pluto, planethood and what planetary scientists might do about those questions. Here's an edited transcript of the Q&A:

Cosmic Log: Let's start with the plutoids: Some people have said that this is at last an opportunity for Pluto to get some respect. Does this end the controversy?

Stern: No, because the controversy isn't about names. The issue is a crucial one to planetary scientists: whether we understand which objects are planets, or not. It's not about respect. It's not about Pluto.


NASA
Alan Stern is principal
investigator for the New
Horizons mission to Pluto
and the Kuiper Belt.

There is no equivalent issue in the rest of astronomy. Imagine if stellar astronomers couldn't agree as to what is a star, or galactic astronomers couldn't agree as to what is a galaxy. What if geologists or biologists couldn't make the simplest classifications, like animals vs. plants? It would be unacceptable. As a result of the 2006 IAU meeting, right now we have an unworkable, embarrassing and wrong definition of what a planet is.

It's very easy to demonstrate that. Any definition of a planet would be laughed out of the house unless Earth is a planet. Anytime you take a picture of an object, and the picture is of Earth, that has to be a planet. We live on a planet.

In fact, the IAU definition doesn't come close to allowing Earth to be a planet.

Q: Because Earth hasn't cleared the near-Earth objects out of its orbit?

A: Well, there's a technicality that they didn't write it well. You're right, because of the near-Earth objects, the earth is technically disqualified. But even if you could forgive that ... and clear up the language, the issue is that as you go farther and farther away from the sun, the equations that describe the mass required to "clear a zone" show that the objects have to get more and more massive.

So Mercury qualifies in Mercury's orbit, but Mercury would not qualify in Earth's orbit. Earth might qualify in its current orbit, but if we put the earth where Pluto is - in other words, if Pluto were the mass of the earth - it still wouldn't qualify. In fact, in the Oort Cloud, which is part of our solar system, none of the planets, even Jupiter, would qualify. Which is a really ridiculous way of defining things. It depends on where it is, not what it is.

Q: It's a case of defining a planet not by the thing itself, but by everything that's around it?

A: Exactly. I would like to see a definition that's really simple. I like to use the "Star Trek" Enterprise test. The Starship Enterprise shows up at a given body, they turn on the cameras on the bridge and they see it. Captain Kirk and Spock could look at it and they could say, "That's a star, that's a planet, that's a comet." They could tell the difference. They don't need a Ph.D.

In the case of the IAU, when Kirk asks, "Is it a planet?" Spock would have to say, "I don't know, Captain. We have to make a complete census of the solar system, feed that into a computer, and do numerical integrations to determine which objects have cleared their zone."

Q: So the issue of the nomenclature, whether it's a dwarf planet, or a plutino or a plutoid - as far as you're concerned, that's not the real point.

A: It's really about us "planetary scientists" having a basic understanding of the object after which our field is named. The reason we're having this discussion is because for a long time, we only knew of a few planets, and life was simple. Then, in the 1990s, there was this explosion in the variety of new kinds of bodies orbiting other stars and out in the solar system, because our technology got more sophisticated. We could suddenly see what we couldn't see before.

It's as if we were biologists trapped on a single desert island, and the only kinds of plants and animals that we knew were on that desert island. And then we were taken on a world tour of the flora and fauna of the earth. It would blow our minds. You would have two choices: You could say, 'Anything I didn't recognize from my own island is not living. I'm not counting that, because there would be too many varieties and I can't keep up with them.' Or you could say, 'I'm a scientist, and I have to adapt to new data. Wow, I really underestimated the situation.'

I think that's what's happened. But the IAU's reaction is, 'No, stop, I won't have any more planets. We have to limit the number because I'm more comfortable with a small number.' So you get this arbitrary algorithm that produces ridiculous results.

Q: Some of the discussion has focused on whether the approach to having an IAU that is the arbiter is not the right way to go nowadays. There's even talk about setting up an alternate organization.

A: That's right. Most things are done these days open-source and by consensus. You don't find little committees of 10 people speaking for 10,000, all without some sort of a sanity check. The fact that the IAU would claim that the world's astronomers have somehow met and decided something when it was a small committee of a dozen ... where were the experts in this field? What kind of process is that?

So people are asking, "What do we need these guys for? We'll set up an alternative." The IAU has no special claim. They have no police force or army. They're not the Supreme Court. If they're doing a bad job ...

The fundamental issue is that not many planetary scientists even belong to the IAU. The vast majority of its members work on galaxies, and stars, and black holes and cosmology. The reason most of the IAU doesn't care is because it's not their issue. The people who actually understand the physics, the chemistry, the work on planets aren't in the IAU. It's kind of like having a bunch of French professors deciding issues regarding the German language.

Q: You're going to have a fair number of "German-language" experts, so to speak, gathering in August to discuss the planet controversy. Will this issue come up there?

A: It will certainly come up. It's going to be a lot of fun, because it's going to be a scientific discussion. I don't think any conclusions will be reached, but it's going to move the ball along. That's just how science works. We don't actually come to vote. Except for the IAU, I don't know of anyplace where we vote at the end of a scientific meeting.

Q: Would that meeting be a good model for the kind of process you're talking about?

A: It's a step. It's like a lot of things. We figured out that water was once prevalent on Mars, not by getting together and arbitrarily calling committees to vote on it, but because over time the body of evidence became overwhelming.

Astronomers, and particularly planetary scientists, have to grapple with the much greater degree of diversity. And it's not just the diversity. The original view, until 10 or 15 years ago, was that we had four Earthlike terrestrial planets, four gas giants and the misfit Pluto. But the new view is four terrestrial planets, four gas giants and hundreds of Plutos. It's jarring, because it's the Earthlike planets - which we thought were 40 percent of the total - that are the misfits.

It's like the Copernican revolution: We're displaced from the center of things. A lot of people didn't want to buy it for a long time. We had to get used to that. The church opposed it. Now the IAU opposes this.

The only difference is that the smaller objects are smaller. They're not fundamentally different, in the sense that a chihuahua is still a dog. A dwarf human being has all the same genetics as other humans. From my perspective, that's fine: These are dwarf planets. I coined the term, in 1991. The only contention that planetary scientists have is with excluding dwarf planets from planets, as if dwarf people weren't people, or dwarf stars weren't stars. In fact, the sun is a dwarf star. It's just an adjective describing what kind.

Q: So you think there eventually will be a consensus, which emerges not by taking a vote but by gathering more evidence?

A: I do. Let me give you an example: I think it's now widely expected among experts that we will find objects substantially larger than Pluto in the deep outer solar system, because now we really understand how easy planet formation was and how many kinds of things were thrown into the outer regions by the giant planets.

So just watch: When a Mars-size body of an Earth-sized body is found, it will be widely accepted that there will be a planet that doesn't fit the IAU's definition. At that point, even the last vestiges of the definition's defenders will say, "Wait a minute, we have to rethink this." ... The whole thing will be shown for the farce that it is.

Q: I wanted to make sure to get a progress report for the New Horizons mission. Is there anything new that can be said about that, or is it under deep cover until it gets closer to the next milestone?

A: Well, it's our job to be good stewards of this spacecraft across this long cruise. We just passed Saturn's orbit, and that means there are now only two operating spacecraft that are farther out, and those are the two Voyagers that were launched 30 years ago.

The spacecraft is very healthy. In fact, our team is writing all the software for the Pluto encounter [in 2015].  So we're very busy, and not really in the deep slumber you're thinking of.

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Comments

If it's big enough to be round, it's a planet. A planet orbiting a larger planet is also a moon. If the planet has a mean radius less than 1000km, it's a dwarf planet. If it's radius bigger than 10,000 km in diameter, it's a giant planet.
A better definition is to just accept that "planet" is a definition that is past its time. Its like the way they used to name chemicals. No one asks for a bottle of 1,3,5-cyclohexene,they still ask for benzene. A similar solution should be used for planets.

The planets are the nine bodies which have been commonly recognized as planets. Its not so much a scientific description as a common description that everyone uses. Once you do that,you can make a nice sensible classification scheme for everything, including the nine planets. Something that makes sense,and something that we can apply easily to any object we find.
 
Real precise, scientists judging the world based on the standards of a 1960s TV show.  What is this, Galaxy Quest??
I agree.  This "clearing" business is annoying.  If it is round, it's a planet.  If it's not, it's just a rock.  If you feel the need to "raise" the position of larger ones, call them major planets or some such term.  How will a definition created to try to fence in a certain group of bodies in our system apply to systems we know little about?
The term "dwarf planet" is no different than "jumbo shrimp!" Sheer idiocy! Call 'em Plutoids, Oortoids, Hemorrhoids, whatever you like! But there has to be a CLEAR delineation between objects like Ceres/Chiron/Eris/etc. and PLANETS!
Thanks, Dennis.  That does it for me.  I just hope we don't find a million marbles out there in the Oort Cloud.
i totally agree whit dennis. if it walks like a duck, and so on. wow, it must be a duck
If Pluto is aplanet, so is our Moon
I would like to have the foolish money spent on this debate. Does it circle the sun, has it always been counted as an planet until a couple of years ago. Lets be stupid about it, It has been grandfathered in as a planet and leave it at that. There must be a lawyer involved it in somewhere. I think that they are being a bunch of 3d graders.
They find it offensive to be called dwarf planets, or red dwarf suns or anything of the like.  The politically correct thing is to call them little planets, etc.
Planets were defined by our ancient astronomers.  Why not leave the term "planet" to describe only the bodies orbiting our star as we are familiar with, and use a different term for other objects in other solar systems and galaxies.

There could be star orbiting bodies called storbiters, and storbiter orbiters called substorbiters.  There is no reason that every object in the universe needs to referenced to what is found in our solar system.
A "Scientist" is an entity that orbits a central idea & clears its area of all facts & figures. An entity that orbits a "scientist" is a "specialist". An entity that has not cleared its area of facts & figures is a "research student". Seems logical to me.
I completely agree.  If it's round and orbits the sun, that's a planet.  To classify things scientifically, you generally need the most basic descriptions.  (Does it have a spine?  Wow, it a vertabrate!!)  I loved Alan's Star Trek explaination.  Sums it up perfectly.  I don't want to fill in a checklist before deciding if what I'm looking at is a planet or not.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it must be a chicken!  Well, that's essentially what the IAU saying about planet classifications.  What if Jupiter were 10x larger, then it would blur the distinction between a planet and a star.  If one uses the Earth as a basis for comparison (which is reasonable), then I hardly think Saturn and Jupiter would qualify.  The cosmos is replete with blurred distinctions.  Whether it quacks or clucks, it's still a bird!  If it's round and not too hot, it's a planet!
You guys are funny! I wonder how you would define a ham sandwich?
Under your definition, Tom, then Ceres, Eris, and Sedna would also be planets?  They are round and they orbit the sun.  It doesn't work.  We should just go back to the 1930 model and leave it like it was before we started messing with the definition.
Mr. Springer,
You seem not to have read any substantial history regarding the ancient definition of a planet, because it is very different to a rocky round body orbiting the sun. The ancients believed planets were gods, who entered and moved around the sky according to a divine plan. Later on the definition was changed to a type of star that orbited the earth in a different sphere to the other planets. In this definition the sun and moon were both classified as planets.

The definition changed to match your understanding of the "ancients" definition only since the Renaissance with the invention of the telescope which first revealed the round nature of planets which was distinctly different to stars. Even after it was realized that the planets orbited the sun and that the earth was actually a planet too the definition of a planet changed according to the knowledge of the day. In the mid 19th century, for example, in order to exclude the asteroids which had from the time of their discovery been regarded as planets.

It is both historically consistent (and logical in the light of new knowledge) to update the definition of a planet. In fact it has become necessary as we discover a large variety of new objects orbiting other stars and new objects orbiting our own. The definition arrived at 3 years ago has too many inconsistencies to have any long term currency. About the only thing it satisfies is the apparent need by otherwise rational people to have the definition roughly fit the one they grew up with and became emotionally attached to.

Eris may well be a plutoid, but it is also likely to be regarded as a planet in the long run. Not only that time is likely to show that planets of the dwarf planet type may well be the most common in any star system, and therefore from an objective point of view the norm amongst planets.
I completely agree too!  "If it's round and orbits the sun, that's a planet."  However, if you do not apply the "size" rule then some comets would be considered planets, no?
My children, ages 8 and 11, have learned more about Planetary Science from Pluto's demotion than anything else, and they were fascinated and thrilled with the naming of the Plutoids.

The Star Trek rant above is ridiculous. If it takes time for a regional survey to properly categorize a newly discovered body, so be it.

If you show me a new single-cell organism, must I be able to categorize instantaneously by sight? Wouldn't putting a little effort into it be appropriate?
I was shocked after hearing that "Pluto" was no longer a "planet."  I petition a "world vote" of scientist and non-scientists.  I would trust that this planet can define other planets(at least in our solar system.)  The "Meteoritical Society" votes on "what is" and "what isn't" a meteorite. Is there a connection?  I smell something here folks!!!
Popular opinion on this subject is totally irrelevant. People may well, in fact probably will, continue to call the 9 historical planets "the planets". In deed, I do myself in casual conversation. But the scientific community needs to have a much better definition for the term than it does now, and it makes not one bit difference what opinions pop up in the general public, a new definition for the word "planet" *IS* going to be adopted (if only for use in scientific circles).

Using simply "large enough to form a sphere" is ridiculous. If we used that there would be zero planets; NONE of them are spheres, and this is NOT simply being nitpicky! Some very important effects occur precisely *because* planets are not spheres! If one 'rounds off' this definition to, say, "approximately spherical", then all of sudden we have *dozens* of planets, including all the larger moons.
This whole business came about because Pluto has been recognized now as just one of manymany Kuiper Belt objects. It has the same composition, similar size and shape, and same kind of orbit as KBOs. Therefore, any definition of "planet" based on PHYSICAL characteristics (as opposed to emotional sentimentality) IS GOING TO either exclude Pluto,or include thousands of new planets. Period. And no amount of commenting is going to change that.


That having been said, I think the IAU definition is kind of silly, and doubt if it will last long. It will either get thrown out, or it will simply become irrelevant through lack of use. If the 2nd one happens, the IAU itself will lose alot of credibility in science circles. And either way, they have covered there own faces with egg. But whatever eventually comes out the other end, I'm positive that for science's purposes Pluto is going to stay 'not a planet'; in fact, in practice, it already had been well before this surreal controversy even erupted . . . . .
Why can't we just have classes of planet - like they have on Star Trek. Each class would have a certain size range. At the lower end of the scale, below a certain point, bodies could be deemed "planetoids" and then below that they'd be asteroids. A small planet could be called a "planet" even though it classifies in the planetoid range. This would contrast with a "moon". A "moon" is simply an object that orbits a planet or planetoid (Although I'm sure most planetoids don't have the gravity for one.). A "moon" would be defined by it's ORBIT - or that it orbits something, not by it's size. Just because something is the size of a moon, doesn't mean it's considered a moon or another diminutive object. Yes, it's possible that even a COMET could be cosidered a planetoid. A comet has a longer orbit though, and then there's all that gas that appears around them - which makes it hard to LAND on them. Which brings attention to WHY we're classifying these things. So process geeks can stroke their compulsive left brains or so we can actually go out there and DO things. If it's a PLANET - of some type or class - you know you can LAND on it.
...And for those who may have got their feathers all in a ruffle about the simple fact that their opinions on the technical definition of "planet" don't count, it might be worth considering that there are literally thousands of words whose popular meanings are much different than their scientific ones. In fact the very term "science" means very different things to scientists, vs. non-scientists. To a scientist it means the use of a defined, codified method of investigating the physical universe. To people outside of science, it has almost as many meanings as people one asks (but often involving lab coats and eccentric hair-dos).

The point is that it is not necessary for the popular definition of "Planet" to be exactly the same as the technical one (though it would probably be better if they were).
Sure Kirk and Spock may be able to identify a planet or comet just by looking at it. But at first glance Han Solo misclassified a giant space station as a moon. And later, that space station was reclassified as a Star(of Death). Point being that definitions are constantly changeing and as we learn more about planetary science the definition of a planet is bound to change as well.
There's another point to this argument that seems to have been widely missed.  Much to the shame of all present at the IAU vote, politics came heavily into play and outweighed even science.  Pluto was the only planet discovered by an American, and there is a certain amount of prestige associated with discovering "planets", be them in our own solar system or not.  Those sullying the waters in these debates are looking out for their own interests in exoplanet discoveries- if a definition is wide enough to apply liberally, they can then discover "planets" around other stars and not just rocks.
Shameful as it is, and as much as the scientific process should not work in this way, this was a factor in play that has not been addressed yet.
People, it's really all very simple. If it's a body that orbits a sun then it is a PLANET! If the body has other bodies orbiting it, then they are MOONS! Did anyone pay any attention in school when they were growing up? I find it absolutely absurd that we are even having this discussion. What is really going on here is a bunch of college educated brats are having the age old childish squable of "I'm smarter than you are!" and they're using this planet naming excercise to do it. The new generation is thumbing there nose at the old generation. Planets have been Planets and Moons have been Moons for how long now? And all of a sudden, oh no that does not work anymore? Please, give me a break! There are more important things going on in the Universe (Or is that term now obsolite as well?).
Call 'em all planets and put class tags (P0, P1, P2, etc.) on them. E.g., Small, hot, rock like Mercury = P1, Earth size rock = P2, Gas giant = P3, Small, cold, rock/ice like Pluto = P4, etc.

That's what they do with stars and galaxies, why not planets?
"Round and orbits the sun" is a bit too simplistic. That definition would include our moon as a planet. "But wait," you say, "the moon orbits the *Earth*". If that's true, you could just as easily say that the Earth orbits the moon: the Earth and moon both rotate around a point 4,600km from the center of the Earth. So then you could define what it means to orbit: "anytime bodies A and B revolve around each other, then A is considered to orbit B if the center of mass of the pair lies within the body of B." Ok, great, the center of the Earth-moon pair lies 13.4% below the Earth's surface. What happens when two bodies revolve around each other, while revolving around a star, and the center of rotation of both lies between them? Which is the moon and which is the planet? What if they're both the same size?

This brings us back to the quandary that location should not affect object classification. If the moon were far enough away that it still paired with the Earth, but brought the center of rotation outside the Earth's radius, then what? They both suddenly become mutually orbiting planets? If you move the moon to its own orbit, does it become a planet? If so you need to accept that you can't classify a planet until you've classified all objects around it, leading back to the initial quandry.

The fact that nobody has yet to come up with a unanimously accepted definition would indicate that this issue is not as trivially easy as some here seem to believe.
Is it really worth all the time and money spent arguing this question it's a planet or a star, as long as it doesn't fall from the sky let it be.
Why not just call a planet any body with an appreciable atmosphere? Too simple?
Hey I know change is gonna happen no matter what but just what is so important that all of a sudden somebody says: oops! we goofed( how many years later?) Pluto isn't a real planet  so lets just change it's status and forget about it .
This is about as pointless as reclassifying Australia as an island rather than a continent. At what size does an island end and a continent begin? Same thing for space bodies. WHat size or orbit must it have to be a planet? Pluto should be considered a planet even if it isn't just because it has gotten away this long being called a planet.
Science seeks to communicate information in a precise codified way which blocks ambiguity and the possibilities for misinterpretation as far as possible or foreseeable.The traditional use of the term planet did no allow for the relatively recent discoveries concerning Pluto, but it is fair to say that the term planet in most minds suggest a earth type of body orbiting a star a susceptible of being landed on or walked on, so why don't we stick to the traditional definition since it does not confuse us a provides a fairly clear picture of what we are refering to?
What will be will be, we dont need to poke around the world.. it was made for a reason.. if pluto isnt a planet anymore then thats it. We need to use the money for more important things.
maybe the scientific community ran out of things to ponder. This maybe just a ploy to keep their tenure.
smiles.
I rather liked the classification of "Kuiper belt object"
Okay, a body that has enough mass to be round is a planet. if a body orbits that planet, it's a moon. simple stuff here. a body that is not round but still orbits a star is either a comet, an asteroid or a meteroid. (differences im not in the mood to explain) besides, Pluto looses mass everytime it goes near the sun so it used to be a lot larger (no one takes that into consideration) Besides, why waste so much time and money on this? Let Pluto be. It's a planet in my books. I don't care if anyone corrects me when I say there are 9 planets. Pluto is a planet so stop fighting over it.
Hey, Shakespeare said it long ago - What's in a name?  That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet.  And more recently Gertrude Stein opined that a rose is a rose is a rose.  

So the language of discovery is important.  But science is neither a colloquy of nodding heads nor an singular pronouncement.  Identification of any object may ultimately involve more parameters than mere convenience dictates.
This whole controversy has nothing to do with science. Don't be duped by their ridicules and spurious arguments.  This is a very blatant nationalistic attempt by some European based members to remove all American identified "Planets" from the text books. To them the situation had become critical with the discovery of "Eris" and the community's need to revise the definition either to included all the recently observed round TNO as planets (mostly by Americans) or permanently exclude them (and all future discoveries) from the list, thereby enshrining Euro-centric dominance of early planetary observations.

I hope we can overcome this petty jealousy and revel in the beauty of scientific research and get back to teaching our children there are still wonders in the universe waiting for them to discover.
Really want the general public to know this: Stern is the very same person who gave an definition on "cleared the neighbourhood of its own orbital zone" in his own paper (with Harold F. Levison) "Regarding the criteria for planethood and proposed planetary classification schemes" in 2000. He is the person who give us "eight planet", even thought he eats his own words now.

In his own definition, all eight planet cleared its own orbit. Pluto, Ceres or Eris are at least 50000 times weaker in clearning its own orbit (measured by the "Stern-Levinson parameter " on the other hand. Earth, by Stern's own definition, is a planet, while Pluto is not.

As you can see in the interview, Stern fooled the public by using an easy to understand but scitificaly incorrect example: Earth did not clear its own orbit - pretty much the same way as if I say gravity does not exist if I can throw apples upward. Alan Boyle either play along with him, or he is being fooled too.
What about the whole moon issue?  Should moons qualify as planets if they would qualify as planets if they weren't moons?  Wow, tired.  Are moons just a special class of planets?  If a planet has a moon it hasn't cleared it's orbit, is that planet a planet?  If a huge space rock came through and threw out Mercury so that it landed in orbit around Saturn would it, without any physical change, cease to be a planet and be just a moon?  What happens if planetary orbits cross, such as elongated elipses with different major axes?
The International Astromical Union has made its ruling. Fine, let it do so and move on. The point being that this is an ASTRONOMICAL union - astro means stars - this is the body of collective investigators into shiny points of light in the distance observed through various telescopic types of instruments.

Alan Stern is a PLANETARY scientist. This is a very different thing. Rather than just observe from a distances, Stern is actually going there via the space craft he is in charge of. If his need is for a certain kind of framework to work within, then his practical needs outweigh the emotional or theoretical needs of others less directly involved in planetary exploration.

Dare I say that the political maneuvering of the IAU to get the preferred definition of the old guard in place smacks more of an attempt to exert power over those such as Alan Stern who are directly involved in planetary research but not part of the IAU. I think a crossroads has been reached where those directly involved in the practical exploration of these distant objects assert their views via the formation of an International Planetary Union.

While astronomers and planetary scientists directly feed into each others disciplines, each needs to recognize that they also have a different focus as they look at similar objects. This is no different to the process during the last 200 years when natural scientists who investigated all natural phenomenon specialized into distinct biologists, geologists, astronomers etc. As knowledge and on the ground experience grows in any subject, specialization is logical.

Just a hundred years ago it was enough for astronomy to include just astronomers. Now astronomers are finding their traditional position usurped by physicists and planetary scientists. This is a natural outcome of a long investigative process. It is not a bad thing.

As the exploration of the planets of this solar system and the others being increasingly found gathers momentum I find the opinions of those going there (like Alan Stern) far more relevant to the subject than a body more concerned with stars, galaxies, big bang's, inflation, strings, and other exotica.
Personally, I don't like the reclassification of Pluto. Expansion of knowledge should not void previously well-established knowledge as long as those previously well-established knowledge is good.

In this case, the definition is such a basic concept that even small children learn and care about. It need not try to be the scientific definition that planetary scientists would want to use. I wouldn't mind at all that planetary scientists create 10 more planetary classifications (such as "Orbitally dominating planets" :-)) as long as I don't need to use them to appreciate our solar system.

I don't know what children think about demoting Pluto. Can they really appreciate that science is really such wonderful discipline that requires such rigor? Or they will just have more doubt about what we teach them? Might they be thinking "maybe our Moon is really not a moon?"

Naming is indeed very important to scientists because good names should embody a set of characteristics of the objects. But in this case, as the article explains, the renaming doesn't even help from that perspective.

Now, think about promoting Pluto back to be a planet again? Wow, what confusion will that create? I just wonder how this could have happened?



Lets make it easy if it circles a sun its a planet if it orbit around anything other then a sun its a moon. then break add subclassifications based on that. thats how i explained it to my 5 year old and he got.
John I'm no science buff or anything really, but I remember hearing that mercury doesn't have an atmosphere since its so close to the sun, so the definition of "a planet any body with an appreciable atmosphere" would dismiss mercury if I'm remembering correctly
Before arguing the merits, look at the playing field, and follow the influences. This is an intensely political process (as is all of science to varying degrees, like it or not).  

Just as the 'nine traditional planets' gained acceptance through common usage, so can the IAU gain more acceptance, and therefore gravity, by its own political accretion, as the more of its own definitions become common usage.

If textbooks, scientific papers, etc., follow suit with the IAU's definitions and terms, then it can safely be said that the IAU, has, to a degree, increased its own gravity, and swallowed up a controlling part of planetary science, and ultimately, the scientists themselves.  

The political reality in this case, is that in the process of defining a planet versus a plutoid, the IAU has also, metaphorically speaking, defined itself as the planet, with the planetary science/scientists that are not on board in this case, as the plutoids.

Having clearing everything from its own orbit, the IAU can conceivably become the only rightful body that can be considered, metaphorically speaking, a 'real planet'.
Omega Supreme,

That just made comets and asteroids planets.  Simple, but perhaps overly so.  Sufficient gravity to approximate roundness seems important.  Sweeping it's orbit maybe not so much.  The distinction of moons is the greatest point of contention.  Should they still be classified as planets, just special case planets.  It seems to me that composition will be a greater distinction than whether its primary orbit is solar or planetary.  This is just a question of what gravity well a planet got caught in, not a question of what it is only where it's at.
A type of double jepardy, is it not. For as long as I can remember it was and is a planet. schools, gov't, law firms... it did not commit a feloney. they have no right to take its classification away. they waited beyond the 7 years.
It's rather disturbing to read the comments on here. From those who think a "planet" is anything that orbits the sun and is round (which would mean there are thousands of planets in our solar system), to those who believe it's a waste of time trying to understand the world/universe around us (was it a waste of time for Christopher Columbus to traverse the Atlantic into an unknown/unexplored area of the world?), to the one who believes that a 'planetary scientist' is someone who flies to other planets in their spaceship (we do not live in Star Trek, Star Wars, or any other sci-fi movie/tv show).

Scientists need precise definitions. Because of the gray area between asteroids and planets, we need to set an arbitrary limit. The following would be a good definition:

A 'planet' is any object with a radius of more than 1000km, that is not massive enough to sustain nuclear fusion, and that has never previously been a star.

The "never previously been a star" is important because stars that have died no longer sustain nuclear fusion. After all, we can't classify brown dwarf stars as planets. Additionally, limiting 'planet' to something that orbits a star would probably be insufficient when we discover rougue planets that have been thrown away from their parent star.
Why haven’t we devised a more scientific classification system based on size, density, and atmospheric conditions? We are really talking about a planet's capability to support life in any form. So if the object orbits a star and is big enough to support a atmosphere of heavy gas or gasses then it should be a planet. It is too small to hold a heavy atmosphere of a specific pressure (i.e. O2, Nitrogen, CO2, etc) then it’s just a body.


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