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Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

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Big-bang battle plan set

Posted: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:05 PM by Alan Boyle


Salvatore Di Nolfi / EPA
A visitor snaps a picture of the Large Hadron Collider's underground
beamline during an open house in April, which was the last opportunity
for the public to see the facility before the scheduled start of operations.

The schedule is taking shape for the startup of the world's biggest particle-smasher — and for the lawsuit seeking to shut it down.

The plaintiffs in that lawsuit have served the federal government with a summons, and Justice Department lawyers are due to respond by June 24. One of the other parties in the case, Europe’s CERN particle-physics center, is supposed to be served this week in Switzerland, according to Walter Wagner, one of the plaintiffs.

CERN's Large Hadron Collider is gearing up to slam protons together at energies that have not yet been studied on Earth. The peak energy of 14 trillion electron volts approaches levels seen in the first microseconds after the big bang - which is why the collider has been nicknamed the "Big Bang Machine."

Wagner and his co-plaintiff, Luis Sancho, are worried that when the collider reaches full power, it could create black holes or strangelets that would grow and gobble up our planet.

Physicists at CERN and the world's other top-level research facilities have been saying for years that that's mere science-fiction silliness. Nevertheless, Wagner, Sancho and other critics continue to sound the alarm. They want operations at the collider to be put on hold for at least four months, pending further safety reviews that would address the black-hole question and other potential risks.

Among other defendants, the lawsuit names the U.S. Department of Energy, the National Science Foundation and Fermilab in Illinois, the laboratory that is playing the lead U.S. role in the Large Hadron Collider. The Justice Department is handling the federal government's legal response, and Justice spokesman Andrew Ames said he would not comment on the suit until the response is filed next month.

Federal attorneys are likely to focus their defense on relatively narrow legal issues – for example, claiming that the government as well as government-funded scientists have complied with environmental guidelines, or that the LHC project is not subject to U.S. regulations, or that the lawsuit should be thrown out because of technicalities. That’s how Wagner’s challenges to previous particle-collider experiments have been handled.

Although anything can happen (even the sudden eruption of a rogue black hole in the courtroom), I wouldn’t expect the attorneys’ brief to focus on the globe-gobbling question. That element of the controversy will be addressed in a safety report currently being reviewed by CERN and outside experts. The report, which is said to underline and amplify previous conclusions that the LHC is safe, could be released by the end of this month, CERN spokesman James Gillies told me.

The technical report is currently undergoing a final review by CERN’s scientific policy committee as well as outside experts, and Gillies is writing up a version in easier-to-understand language for the benefit of us non-physicists.

First beams in July?
Meanwhile, CERN’s startup schedule is coming into better focus as well: The LHC team is due to start cooling down the last sectors of the collider’s beamline to near absolute zero on Wednesday, with the expectation that cooldown will be complete by mid-June, Gillies said. That would clear the way for a final round of equipment testing, with the first attempt to inject proton beams into the collider “likely to be in the second half of July,” he said.

The exact date would be set four to six weeks in advance – leaving enough time to plan a big media event around the first beam injection. Gillies said the first injection will provide a convenient hook for coverage, including a live BBC broadcast of the turn-on around 9:30 a.m. CET (3:30 a.m. ET) on the appointed day. However, he stressed that the beam injection was just one step in a months-long commissioning process.

“It’s not like launching a space shuttle or anything like that,” Gillies said.

The first low-power proton collisions would come later in the summer or fall, leading up to a VIP ceremony on Oct. 21. The collider won’t reach its full power until next year, after CERN’s winter break. Any legal questions should be resolved by the time the Large Hadron Collider gets anywhere close to post-big-bang energies. At least that’s what the Justice Department and CERN would expect.

Weighing the risks
For his part, Wagner wants to see the safety report first. Despite all the expert claims that the LHC will be safe, the former nuclear health physicist insisted that nothing he's seen so far has absolutely ruled out the black-hole doomsday scenario.

"For all I know, they will come up with some other novel argument that proves this can't happen. We want to see an argument that absolutely proves it ... because otherwise it ends up being [a statement that] 'we have no way of calculating.' And that, to me, is a scary proposition."

I should emphasize here that most scientists, even the ones who think way outside the box, are not scared. Here's how theoretical physicist Michio Kaku, the author of "Physics of the Impossible," put it to me back in February:

"I'm going to sleep well when that machine is turned on, because I know that cosmic rays have more energy than the Large Hadron Collider, and you don't see black holes from outer space. These are microscopic in size, and they don't last long."

Of course, there are always counterarguments, and counter-counterarguments. For a sampling, you can check out LHC Concerns and the BackReaction blog, among many other resources. Then you can weigh in with your own comments below.

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if I did the math right(I checked twice, but I am not perfect), according to the theory that describes Hawking radiation, a black hole with a mass of 1kg, which is far larger than anything CERN would be able to make would last 1.3387205037x10^-17 seconds(or ~13.387 attoseconds).  this means even if it was traveling at the speed of light it would have to engulf more than 1kg of mass while only traveling a hair over 4nm.  such a black hole would have an event horizon of ~1.458*10^-27 m whereas a proton has a diameter of 1.65×10^−15 m.  So even using a black hole that weighs far beyond anything the CERN will be able to generate, though the thought of 2 footballs moving at the speed of light colliding is pretty funny to me for some reason(I'm speaking of a regulation NFL football, and yes that would still be short of a kg, but its close enough for my imagination) the black hole would exist for such a short period of time and have such a small event horizon and be capable of moving such a short distance that I will sleep soundly at night when they fire it up.  besides, if I'm wrong, who is going be around to correct me?
Hmmm.

Sadly, most figures in history are made into caracatures, good and bad.

For example, Galileo, with his heliocentric theory, was no closer to accurate (based on modern theories as the standard) than his Catholic opponents.  The sun is not the center of the universe...

Additionally, his math (a theory of ellipses) was very wrong, and it was based on observations which were inaccurate (possibly fudged to fit the data.)

He makes a poor poster child for science vs religion.  But he will do, if none other can be found.

People overestimate the ability of humans to influence the universe.  It seems doubtful to me that this little experiment will do much harm.  I say that without any particular insight, as my doctorate is in the applied sciences, and I haven't bothered much with the details of physics lately.

However, this should be seen as what it is.  An expensive effort by very religious people to prove their creation myth (the big bang) is true.

Sadly, their devotion to their religion has apparently deprived them of the capacity for simple logic.

In the event that it were shown that the "big Bang" could have happened; even if a copy of it were contained in a jar somewhere, it would only show that it could have happened.  Not that it did.  A rather unsatisfying result, as Jesse Jackson could have been president (as an example).

As God said to Job:

Where were you , when I hung the stars over nothing?

Pax
Fred of La Crosse (where I grew up) writes: "cosmic rays with vastly greater energies strike the Earth's atmosphere all the time yet we are still here"

Besides the fact that single stray cosmic ray impacts send results into space, it is highly questionable that cosmic rays might produce the same results as head-on particle collider collisions with thousands of protons at a time.

A single rare high energy cosmic ray may involve a single proton impact with a relatively stationary particle and send all particles created safely into space, while collider collisions will involve thousands of protons (or protons to anti-protons) colliding head-on at 99.9999991% of the speed of light in temperatures lower than space traveling in opposite directions with powerful magnetic fields to help focus all the energy to a single point in space and particles created may be captured by Earth's gravity.
CERN has an excellent safety record, and frankly anything the Germans persue in science advances mankind's knowledge.  Wagner has fears about the unknown and there is some validity there.  When America tested the first atomic and hydrogen bomb our scientists didn't know with 100% certainty what the extent would be.

I don't think God would allow us to destroy the Earth in an experiment.  Creation is not so fragile or simple as our little imaginations.  That being said it is possible for us to make mistakes and learn from the aftermath, but if it goes BOOM then only Europe will suffer.  I await the results of their first experiments with exuberance.

It isn't like they ignited a sun and don't know what to do with it (Cough*.)  If we could just hook up a power grid to our little "problem" then America's energy woes would be over forever.  

"Top people" are working on it I'm told.

This is another disater waiting to happen,why do we have to know how everything works surely the money been spent on this program,would better used in helping the third world.
Craig so how much money have you sent to the third world lately?
Either you believe the mathematical basis of black holes developed by Hawking, et al, or you don't.  If it's wrong, micro black holes will not be produced at all at the LHC; if it's right, then they will evaporate via Hawking radiation before they can interact with matter.  It's an integral mathematical structure, not subject to being right about production and, at the same time, wrong about the inverse process of decay.
To build a terrifying machine, do they know how to stop it? think of how "if" they should build and turn it on? where's the responsibility? Have we come to the point we don't care if we destroy ourselves, or think we are so "advanced" we can handle the uncontrollable? Sounds like they may start something they can't even truly imagine what will happen. I get the impression they are like children playing with matches. Maybe they will switch it on, and they will be sucked in their own hole. Then we can shut it off, dump it in the marianna trench and live without them happily!
The whole premise of any safety report is that we actually know what we are dealing with here, when quite obviously we simply don`t, or what the hec is the LHC for.
 Cern can`t predict just what anomilies or reactions may happen and basing safety on specualtion and theories of cosmic events etc we have just observed is very dangerous and subject to all of the gaps,limitations, variables, and unknowns in this field.
Next time you are considering buying a new concept untested car, just hop in your next door mates old banger and take it for a spin to see if the new one you may buy is Ok from that, Ahem!!!!! does`n`t work does it, but at least it is a car.
 Theories and ideas in this field are proven wrong or misjudged etc all of the time.
 Maybe the operation of the LHC may show we just simply didn`t know what we were dealing with or going to unleash, but perhaps once we realise that it may be too late.
 Don`t think for a minute we can say in 6 months we are still here its fine beacause the very next second the unexpected may be created within the collider or dangerous anomilies including black holes etc may have already been created and are starting accretion etc in the earth.
 We simply wont ever and can`t know, our understanding of these things is way below what we are facing ourselves with here.
 Its Sanctioned lunacy.

I know next time we build a new plane with all sorts of new parts and components etc etc and different engines, wing style, extra weight and size etc etc all unproven, for its first ever flight lets fill it with women and children and the grand parents for the fun of it because thats what we have got here test flight earth on a whole new first of its type concept and we are all going along on the hotley disputed test run whether we like it or not, oh and of course every other single living thing on the planet.

Stone of Florida writes "Even if you could create a tiny black hole, its mass would be absorbed by the infinitely larger mass of the earth...Its total poppy cock."

Actually the way it works is that black holes are super dense, millions of times more dense than regular matter, and they 'collapse' regular matter into them.  There are basically two unanswered questions that determine safety or not:

A. Do micro black holes evaporate?  (Best answer: Unknown, no compelling case to say they would evaporate based on several recent studies).

B.  How fast would a micro black hole grow if it did not evaporate?  (Best answer: Unknown, no compelling evidence of either slow or fast growth.  Credible theories predict both.)

If micro black holes evaporate or grow extremely slowly, then they will not destroy the planet.  But we don't currently know the answer to those questions...

Learn more at LHCFacts.org
A copy of legal paper work related the summons served to CERN is available at: http://www.lhcfacts.org/?cat=50

While it probably is perfectly safe to do, I don't see any reason for not stepping back and rethinking it one more time. If its going to work on say, Monday, it will also work on Thursday.... and then again it may not work at all. (Remember boys, this thing is being built by humans, and they tend to err on occassion.)
We should declare a 'War on Science'. When we see scientists start to 'PLAY GOD' and possibly threaten human existence (regardless of the magnitude or validity of these claims) they need to be stopped. As humans, we take calculated risks on a daily basis. We drive our cars to work, even though there is a remote possibility that we could have an accident a die. As humans, we gamble, we like to take what we have and turn it into something greater and more substantial. And finally, as humans, we like 'colourful' and spectacular displays of humanity's progression in the field of science, astrology and art. Regardless of the minute chances of destruction, we will always choose in the end to let the light show begin - It is just our nature. But, friends, let us not forgot that curiosity DID kill the cat and that we should not be arrogant enough to think we too cannot be killed.
honestly, im scared. why shouldnt i be?
but i thought about it, and maybe some of you guys are right. they probably know what theyre doing. and i dont think these scientists want to die. i am religious, and i dont want to offend anyone-but pray for the best, and expect for the worst.
Do you people really think that this behemoth machine is for seeking just the "looks good on paper" particles? They are looking for what nobody has ever seen before not just the Higgs Boson!!!!!!!!

They will keep doing that out of mindless passion for science and demystifying life and the atom until a friggin mysterious particle is created. Then guess what the whole friggin planet is consumed before they get a chance to demystify it!!!!!!!!

The only civilizations that survive in this universe are those that don't manage to demystify everything into oblivion.

Friggin moronic scientists. Seriously friggin moronic.
A microscopic black hole is thought to have a very transient existence.  The smaller, the ever-more transient, as they emit radiation named  after Stephen Hawking (Hawking radiation).  The radii of there event horizons are extremely small - So, what around them can they possibly pull in during their extremely brief existences?  These microscopic black holes are theoretical constructs.  If one takes the position that the theory is correct and that they exist, then it follows that one should also accept the theoretical predictions that they cannot  destroy the world we live in.  It's irrational to accept one while rejecting the other.  It's time for the nay-sayers to get a grip on this.  Their cookie may have been broken as a child, but as an adult, the pieces of their cookie will not be 'eaten' by microscopic black holes.  Also, c does not equal 1, but rather (approx) 3 X 10^8 m/s.  Hence, .99999% is incorrect by a factor of 10^2.
i didnt even read this i was just looking for a good and easy to read answer for what actually happened during the big bang and i couldnt find a good answer ANYWHER!!im gettin really frausterated at the freakin moment because i have i test tomorrow and we have to write a 1 page essay on the big bang!! SO please dont even bother to help me because by the time you read im already done with the #%$*ing test!so thanks for nothing!!!!!!!!!(i cant believe i wasted my time on this when i should be studying).Man i really dont know what to do.(oh and by the way my reall name isnt Mary-Kate).
i found all previous experiments done on any kind are amazing but definitely not this one. First of all, we have limited knowledge of what it could be as a result and what's the worst case.  Second, do we have what it takes to at least, stand a chance to have certain degrees of control over it especially when things going out of expectation?  

Whatever the results gonna be, it's catastrophic.  It turns out good, that's great.  If it's not, the rest might suffer.  These guys are putting our lives on the edge.

I support Walter Wagner's view and suggestion on this project.  Sorry to say that, i think it would worth a try at a smaller scale with one of these guy has a brain like Albert Einstein. Else, i think the day we got the result will be the day our calendar go stale to eternity, as what's ancient Mayan and Chinese's I-ching predicts, the December 21st 2012.

The high density nuclei combained by high energy to form high gravity particles.But in the plasma stage it is posible,the high density/ and there said that all graviton particles where emits.Then what is the scope of a high strength particle exchange?. If it is possible then by the collision, the mass will transfered to huge amount of energy. Then we must bothered about it. But i think that the high gravitational field is canceled by other one.


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