ABOUT COSMIC LOG

Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

Check out Boyle's biography or send a message to Cosmic Log via cosmiclog@msnbc.com.



Big-bang battle plan set

Posted: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:05 PM by Alan Boyle


Salvatore Di Nolfi / EPA
A visitor snaps a picture of the Large Hadron Collider's underground
beamline during an open house in April, which was the last opportunity
for the public to see the facility before the scheduled start of operations.

The schedule is taking shape for the startup of the world's biggest particle-smasher — and for the lawsuit seeking to shut it down.

The plaintiffs in that lawsuit have served the federal government with a summons, and Justice Department lawyers are due to respond by June 24. One of the other parties in the case, Europe’s CERN particle-physics center, is supposed to be served this week in Switzerland, according to Walter Wagner, one of the plaintiffs.

CERN's Large Hadron Collider is gearing up to slam protons together at energies that have not yet been studied on Earth. The peak energy of 14 trillion electron volts approaches levels seen in the first microseconds after the big bang - which is why the collider has been nicknamed the "Big Bang Machine."

Wagner and his co-plaintiff, Luis Sancho, are worried that when the collider reaches full power, it could create black holes or strangelets that would grow and gobble up our planet.

Physicists at CERN and the world's other top-level research facilities have been saying for years that that's mere science-fiction silliness. Nevertheless, Wagner, Sancho and other critics continue to sound the alarm. They want operations at the collider to be put on hold for at least four months, pending further safety reviews that would address the black-hole question and other potential risks.

Among other defendants, the lawsuit names the U.S. Department of Energy, the National Science Foundation and Fermilab in Illinois, the laboratory that is playing the lead U.S. role in the Large Hadron Collider. The Justice Department is handling the federal government's legal response, and Justice spokesman Andrew Ames said he would not comment on the suit until the response is filed next month.

Federal attorneys are likely to focus their defense on relatively narrow legal issues – for example, claiming that the government as well as government-funded scientists have complied with environmental guidelines, or that the LHC project is not subject to U.S. regulations, or that the lawsuit should be thrown out because of technicalities. That’s how Wagner’s challenges to previous particle-collider experiments have been handled.

Although anything can happen (even the sudden eruption of a rogue black hole in the courtroom), I wouldn’t expect the attorneys’ brief to focus on the globe-gobbling question. That element of the controversy will be addressed in a safety report currently being reviewed by CERN and outside experts. The report, which is said to underline and amplify previous conclusions that the LHC is safe, could be released by the end of this month, CERN spokesman James Gillies told me.

The technical report is currently undergoing a final review by CERN’s scientific policy committee as well as outside experts, and Gillies is writing up a version in easier-to-understand language for the benefit of us non-physicists.

First beams in July?
Meanwhile, CERN’s startup schedule is coming into better focus as well: The LHC team is due to start cooling down the last sectors of the collider’s beamline to near absolute zero on Wednesday, with the expectation that cooldown will be complete by mid-June, Gillies said. That would clear the way for a final round of equipment testing, with the first attempt to inject proton beams into the collider “likely to be in the second half of July,” he said.

The exact date would be set four to six weeks in advance – leaving enough time to plan a big media event around the first beam injection. Gillies said the first injection will provide a convenient hook for coverage, including a live BBC broadcast of the turn-on around 9:30 a.m. CET (3:30 a.m. ET) on the appointed day. However, he stressed that the beam injection was just one step in a months-long commissioning process.

“It’s not like launching a space shuttle or anything like that,” Gillies said.

The first low-power proton collisions would come later in the summer or fall, leading up to a VIP ceremony on Oct. 21. The collider won’t reach its full power until next year, after CERN’s winter break. Any legal questions should be resolved by the time the Large Hadron Collider gets anywhere close to post-big-bang energies. At least that’s what the Justice Department and CERN would expect.

Weighing the risks
For his part, Wagner wants to see the safety report first. Despite all the expert claims that the LHC will be safe, the former nuclear health physicist insisted that nothing he's seen so far has absolutely ruled out the black-hole doomsday scenario.

"For all I know, they will come up with some other novel argument that proves this can't happen. We want to see an argument that absolutely proves it ... because otherwise it ends up being [a statement that] 'we have no way of calculating.' And that, to me, is a scary proposition."

I should emphasize here that most scientists, even the ones who think way outside the box, are not scared. Here's how theoretical physicist Michio Kaku, the author of "Physics of the Impossible," put it to me back in February:

"I'm going to sleep well when that machine is turned on, because I know that cosmic rays have more energy than the Large Hadron Collider, and you don't see black holes from outer space. These are microscopic in size, and they don't last long."

Of course, there are always counterarguments, and counter-counterarguments. For a sampling, you can check out LHC Concerns and the BackReaction blog, among many other resources. Then you can weigh in with your own comments below.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

It's sad that knuckledraggers like Wagner and Sancho have to spoil what should be an unbelieveable scientific experiment.  I sure hope the courts tell them to buzz off so we can advance our knowledge of how the universe came about and the properties of particle physics.

I've been waiting for years for this thing to become operational and I don't want some spoiled sports ruining my fun learning new things.
I think it would be far easier for humanity develop warp travel, worm holes and bring dinosaurs back from the dead than to create a black hole capable of swallowing all of Earth.

Either way, it does put me in the mood to watch the Scifi film "Black Hole," despite the fact that it leaned more towards fantasy than fact.

http://www.scifi.com/blackhole/
The argument that we should not light this thing off until fears are 100% addressed that a black hole will not appear is dissapointing.  It is 100% certain that the Earth will come to an end some day and is humans are to survive, then we need to get off this rock.  To do that, we need to know the nature of the universe.  Maybe one day we will evolve and be able to get past our fears of the unknown.  The Earth is not flat and we did not sail off the edge.... nor are we going to create a planet gobbling black hole.  Gads!  
This is bad science.  

I checked the LHC concerns page, and while the author brags about his M.S. in Statistics to try to shut down one argument he leaves a huge mathematical error in the first paragraph.  He asserts that the particles will move a .99999% c.  Please recall that .99999% is not equal to 99/100.  It's actually 99/10000.  His decimal point is 2 places to far to the left.  You would think a guy with a Masters in Statistics would get that.

This is a trend of all of the claims about the LHC.  These maniacs are trying to stop good science.  Sadly, as this blog reports, the plaintiff will get shut down on technicalities.  I wish someone would just take the time to explain to them why they're wrong instead of allowing him to keep filing frivolous complaints.
The LHC is not even close to being powerful enough to present any kind of threat...we humans are not even close to competing with what nature already provides: cosmic rays with vastly greater energies strike the Earth's atmosphere all the time yet we are still here.  I think that the plaintiffs are seizing on the entertainment value of all this as an opportunity for self-promotion--the plaintiffs, after all, are not trained physicists...they're attention-seekers and perhaps, they're after the some resultant cash because dollar bills tend to fall into the black hole of controversy.  Let's hope the Europeans have the sense to see our American legal three-ring circus for what it really is: a means to scam money from hard-working people.
As the comments state:  LHC will not have enough power to "SUSTAIN" a Black Hole to let it grow - needs to much power for that.  Yes, Wagner and Sancho really need to complain about something else.
Why not use the devices to "PROVIDE" power as well....or is that to much common sense.  Ah the mighty Dollar.  Sad.
In an age when you can fly to Europe in three hours it is sad to see that we as a people have not advanced as far in our thinking. We are still stuck in the dark ages mentally. If we are to prosper as a race we must leave this world and travel to another before all the resources of this planet are exhausted. Knowledge of the the true nature of the universe is essential for this to occur. Fear of change is normal for comfort loving humans who seek to remain locked in ignorance to protect what is dwindling away, but logic and experience has proven that to be the wrong approach through out history. If we don't take risks now we will surly die out as a race very soon. The danger of death from starvation or thirst is a fact we must cope with, being sucked up in a black hole created in a lab is a fantasy we should let Hollywood handle.  
Since we are talking about the continued existence or the destruction of the world, we should be certain, not highly unlikely as to the success of this machine. I do believe myself that this may be alot of unnecessary concern however since we are talking about the planet we live on, we should permit the rational discussion to either substantiate the concerns or dismiss it only after throughly analyzing it. This warrants the science and the concerns about the science, to do anything less is the beginning of faulty science and the ethics that try to regulate it.
It's crazy I tell you. "Everyone Knows the world is flat". Oh wait that was 1492. "Everyone knows Iraq has weapons of mass destruction". Everyone else may be wrong, perhaps a little open mindness can save us all. Give the kid a chance. I'm not an expert but what if? We are dealing with the unknown.
To Jeremy in Virginia:

I am not some CERN black-hole doomsayer and look forward to when the machine is turned on. I am curious if it will find the Higgs, the Standard Model needs it to remain valid as it presently is constructed.

However the mathematical syntax the crazy is using on LHC Concerns is partly correct actually. C = 1 and it is an absolute constant. .99999 is a good way to express that, though using a percentage sign is where the mistake is.
Personally, I'm excited to see what new discoveries we're going to make as a result of this massive new collider.  Perhaps I'm naïve about the risks, but I don't see the planet gobbling black hold happening.  Just as fascinating as the impact this will have on our understanding of the universe, is the impact this might have on our philosophy of existence.  Check out the article below for some interesting ideas about this:

http://www.strangelegacy.com/2008/05/01/socrates-meets-quantum-physics/
Its amazing to me that everyone posting here does not seem to have any initials after their names (phd, ms, etc) yet all have expressed "expert" opinions on the validity of the fears of Wagner and Sancho.  The truth is you don't really know.  You are just parroting what the "experts" are telling you.  It's amazing that you are not using the scientific method (critical thinking and questioning) in this instance.  The truth is, you don't know the truth. Admit that.  You'll be better off for it.  I don't have the answers. I don't claim to.  I'll listen to the "experts" but its usually the ones to gain from something telling you that something is safe.  And btw Jeremy, your math is wrong.
The people who are afraid of a "black hole" are probably afraid of lots of things. Courage isn't their strong point, But then, I'm not sure there are any such things, The guys who talk about this stuff use words I don't know, and they lie alot, except they call it miscalulations. I think they are just trying to be smart.
What "CERN"? Didn't you know that a large sectinon of CERN collapsed?

Oooops!
I think the people who are trying to shoot this down are religious extremists and not scientists. If we prove there was a big bang theory and replicate it in the lab then it disproves the entire "God created the heavens and the Earth" concept, etc.
Not being a particularily religious person myself, and as one that would say this is going to be cool and it will bring us better knowledge of how the universe works, I did learn in college that it was Galileo that was put under house arrest because the Inquisitors did not understand science and thought that he was ticking off God.  Why take the chance in making their creator angry?

From Wikipedia:
"The geocentric view had been dominant since the time of Aristotle, and the controversy engendered by Galileo's opposition to this view resulted in the Catholic Church's prohibiting the advocacy of heliocentrism as POTENTIALLY FACTUAL (emphasis added), because that theory had no decisive proof and was contrary to the literal meaning of Scripture."

Good bye Galileo.

Someone might know if there was a chance of committing Universal suicide by smashing an atom with this particular piece of equipment, but because those persons are so far and few in-between, those that don't know are just asking to put "Galileo" unto house arrest until they are sure.  I think that is what Wagner is saying:

From this article):
"Wagner wants to see the safety report first. Despite all the expert claims that the LHC will be safe, the former nuclear health physicist insisted that nothing he's seen so far has absolutely ruled out the black-hole doomsday scenario.

"For all I know, they will come up with some other novel argument that proves this can't happen. We want to see an argument that absolutely proves it ... because otherwise it ends up being [a statement that] 'we have no way of calculating.'  

He is only asking that if you think you can prove that there will not be a black hole that will swallow up the Earth, you should prove it.  Is that too much to ask?  It could be POTENTIALLY FACTUAL.

Come on now Tell the Truth.
The scientist has never been a model of morality. People seem to believe that scientists have the people's good in their hearts always. Please, one only has to look at the atmospheric nuclear tests or destroying of embryo's to see that Science places knowledge above human life. I am glad someone is checking the scientists, even the government has checks and balances. These mere men (scientist) should be no different. Funny how scientist use the word subjects during their experiment, much like dictators. Engineers are much better than scientists.
All views should be heard, and risk evaluated, through public forum!  A panel of experts should be drafted, and platform an official forum committee, refereed by the Phyics Review Board. This analysis should be rendered to Cern Lhc, and these safety suggestions should be inserted to the appropriate protocol divisions. The main difference between Cern Lhc, and cosmic atmospheric collision is, the random collisions occuring at Cern are in close proximity to the cryonic superconductors, and the detector array hardware!  Quantum Wave-Function Backwash becomes a more prevalent possibility with each test. Cern Lhc has already planned for future decades of precise-energy upgrades, and a primary goal is 200-400 TeV collisions! The largest risk is at some point, the collisions could disturb the Quantum Time-Dilating pathways, that move back and forth into the future. and return with pre-agreed arrangement coordinates, for Nuclear Positionings. This in turn could establish a Space/Time curvature, establishing an Einstein-Rosen Bridge Wormhole. The backwash could in theory, amplify the Quantum Inversion Wave Function, thus stabilizing the Event-Horizon Singularity! Outcome: Relativistic Temporal (Time) Shifts! Macrocosmic Time-Dilations.  References Used: Einstein/Rosen/Heisenberg "Uncertainty Principle"/Schrodinger/Tesla/Hawking/Michio Kaku/Irina Aref'eva/Igor Volovich/ and anonymous Jefferson Labs (CEBAF) particle physicists 1989-2008//. With Cern being 'outside' jurisdictional interference, and the Tesla Manuscripts moved to Brookhaven National Laboratories for explicit Lhc use, there is limited chance of a rational intercession, but it is our duty to try!
Nobel Prize hungry Physicists are stopping at nothing to find the "Higgs Boson" Particle, among others, and are risking nothing less than the annihilation of the Earth and all Life in this endless quest to solve a theoretical problem when many urgent real problems face the planet. The European Organization for Nuclear Research(CERN) Large Hadron Collider is an atom smasher that will soon be firing Lead and Gold atoms at each other at nearly the speed of light to create clouds of Micro Black Holes, Strangelets and other potentially cataclysmic phenomena.
For more information see:
http://www.lhcdefense.org/
http://www.lhcconcerns.com/
http://www.SaneScience.org/
Nate, John: For some reason, people that read this for the first time and do not know particle physics assume that this guy has thought of some brilliant new idea that the thousands of experts somehow missed. He hasn't. He is going on and on about something that was considered many many times by thousands of individuals and long since been rejected.

As far as certainty. The only reason scientists say they are not certain is because they are being technically honest. There is no such thing as certainty in science. There is always a vanishingly small chance that something you haven't thought of will result in some disater. It's impossible to have certainty. Though you've driven to work tens of thousands of times, you can never be certain that tomorrow your car won't destroy the world. How? Who knows! that doesn't mean it can't happen.
It is expected that Micro Black Holes will be created at the rate of one per second. To reassure the public, CERN has stated that these MBHs will instantly evaporate in the LHC based on the "Hawking Radiation" theory and they would already have been created by naturally occurring high-energy cosmic rays. HOWEVER, "Hawking Radiation" is only a theory, is disputed by other physicists and Stephen himself no longer believes it.
As for naturally occurring high-energy cosmic rays creating MBHs, this is theoretical also and has never been observed or proven.
"What is different, physicists admit, is that the fragments from cosmic rays will go shooting harmlessly through the Earth at nearly the speed of light, but anything created when the beams meet head-on in the collider will be born at rest relative to the laboratory and so will stick around and thus could create havoc." From 'New York Times'
On May 5, an inquisitive teacher's letter to CERN experiment team ATLAS concerning MBH creation was met with this condescending response(including this passage; "Now talk about fussing about nothing: first of all, a hole, black to boot, and microscopic on top of that! If tiny, weeny little holes are going to get a big grown-up man like you all scared, holy banana, what would a big white bump do to you?") and included a photo with a sign that reads 'Microscopic Black Hole Factory'.)
Additionally Aurélien Barrau and Julien Grain speaking on behalf of CERN say "...these black holes are not dangerous and do not threaten to swallow up our already much-abused planet." the obvious implication being the Earth is damaged goods and therefore a black hole would just put it out of it's misery?
Cool
actually, from a physics standpoint, it is entirely possible to make a black hole in a powerful enough super-collider(i dont know if CERN is powerful enough) however, since these black holes would only consist of some(not all)of the parts of the two particles that collided, they would have very little mass.  as black holes lose mass via hawking radiation, they would exist for a very short period of time, likely measured in fractions of a second.  unless they gained more mass in that timespan, they would be unable to harm the earth, and seeing as how a black hole that small would pratically need to collide with a particle to engulf it, it is exceedingly unlikely that it would pose any danger to the earth.  besides, more enerjetic events have been taking place on a regular basis in the upper atmosphere for eons and we still exist, so the odds of this killing us all are so low as to be laughable.
I say they should fire it up now, without telling anyone.....then when we are all still alive 6 months from now, and far tooo busy killing each other, the scientist can tell them to kiss thier ass
hmm why is asking for a 4 month delay to study the possibilities 'trying to stop science'?


It makes his case pretty well that his hypothesis cant be mathematically disproven by the scientists working on the project.  All the demagogery aside, shouldnt they at least be able to do the math if the guy is so 'crazy' and off the mark?


Whats the difference if we switch it on ni july or october?
Here's a test:  Meat from clones! Franken-foods!  cell phones and cancer! A mouse with human DNA! Test-tube babies! nano tech! Black holes in the Hadron collider!  A Mist from another dimension that has wierd creatures that kill everyone in a supermarket in Maine because the scientists couldn't leave well enough alone!

If any of that was scary - you watch too much sci fi channel.  Leave the science to the experts please, and the scary stories to Stephen King.
No learned person thought the earth was flat in 1492. Columbus certainly did not. I don't think anyone in 1092 or even 0002 thought it was flat. Where does this interesting myth come from? And what is all this science worship? Sure it'll be cool when the machine fires up. Unless it's not cool. I say, hold their feet to the fire for a few months in the name of sanity and caution - even if a couple of nut cases are bringing the case to court. Maybe some dirty little secrets will come to light, maybe some loose bolt will get tightened, literal or metaphorical. To me, letting the scientists play unsupervised, men and women who often have little or no moral code other than "I want to do want I want to do", is just as bad as letting the generals or the politicians run amok.
It appears that Mr. Wagner didn't remember one of the key elements of science.

We can never be sure of anything. We can be pretty darn certain, but in science and physics especially, 100% is something you cannot get.

So to ask for something he should know is unreasonable says a lot about his character. He knows he will never get the answer he wants, so he can attempt to stall it forever.

Oh well, fire it up I say. What's the worst that could happen?
JB -- when Columbus sailed to the "edge of the world", it didn't jeopardize the rest of the world. No one knows what is going to happen when they start this thing up. Thank God, you guys are so damn smart, that you already know that it is all going to go perfectly as though. And if so, then why do we even need to do this? I have nothing against science; just nuts that think that their thirst for knowledge should come at any cost -- even humanities existance.
Hmm. Whom to believe more? Who risks more ?

A. Concerned expert physicists saying that there are theories which predict under certain circumstances a very remote possibility that very tiny small black holes are created due to LHC collisions, but dissolve quickly afterwards, OR

B. Politicians, who state firmly "Everyone knows Iraq has weapons of mass destruction" and risk 3rd world war ?

Which lemming to follow ?

Look at it this way.  If the crazies are right and it creates an planet gobbling black hole, I don't have to pay the IRS next year and it will put an end to all these mind numbingly stupid political commercials.  See, a silver lining.
"I think the people who are trying to shoot this down are religious extremists and not scientists. If we prove there was a big bang theory and replicate it in the lab then it disproves the entire "God created the heavens and the Earth" concept, etc."

I think that it's amazing how people bash religion everytime they get a chance when it's not even related to the article.  None of these tests are going to prove that there isn't God.  The majority of scientests are religious, as are doctors, etc, since the more you learn about how the world works, the more you see that it was all designed.
Puuuleeeze, people, get a life!  Theoretical stupidity is still stupidity!  Columbus didn't sail off the edge of the world!  This is possibly the most important experiment ever done, and the doomsayers are having a blast. (No pun intended).
Look,  there have been other particle-smashers that have worked and didn't create any black-holes, nor did they endanger the earth.  Some people have to stop hiding behind a rock and come out and see what the CERN's Large Hadron Collider is going to do, and that is to answer the question, What develop in the first microseconds after the big bang?
Wow, let's not try to advance science and knowledge for our own sakes.  How about being afraid of every little thing that comes our way.  This way we'll stay in this perpetual cycle of living the way we do now.  Or how about this, shut the nuts up, turn the thing on, and learn something about the universe.  I'm going to with the latter.
I think that Wagner has no reason to worry about a black hole "gobbling" up our planet. If he researched the topic a bit more, perhaps he would see that this experiment/demonstration is not going to destroy our planet.
But if it did open a black hole, I think it would be interesting to see another dimension.
That comment was made in jest.
I say follow the lemming with the best looking ass so that there is something good to look at while we are following either one to hell.
Earth wasnt meant to be alive forever, however, it was meant to harbor human life that has the ability to reach off of this planet and find ways to thrive in the universe.  Conservative people who dont want to experiment with new things are always the ones that die off.  The australian aboriginees are an example, they are still alive but never destined to leave their homeland of australia because they dont know physics/calculus.
I may have missed something in the discussion, but it seems Mr. Wagner is asking the scientists to prove a negative.  Neither science nor the US constitution accept that condition.  A negative, by definition, cannot be proven.

All social issues and experimental details aside, isn't that is the basic flaw in his argument?
Ok so I haven't been following the LHC too terribly closely, but I'm assuming they are trying to recreate what happens after the big bang. Just a thought -  if the universe was created by the big bang theory, I assume there was more energy involved in that than what is happening here. So what happened there? Were there tiny black holes that disappeared almost immediately or did they stick around? Or were there even black holes at all? I have no real knowledge of physics or anything of that sort, just what I've read and some common knowledge. So maybe I'm naive but, if there were black holes that developed along with the big bang, or any time that matter collided in this fashion, wouldn't anything that resulted afterward have a hard time getting away from the black hole, provided the black hole stayed longer than fractions of a second? It just seems like if that's the case, the universe would have a hard time developing itself.
Fred of La Crosse (where I grew up) writes:
"cosmic rays with vastly greater energies strike the Earth's atmosphere all the time yet we are still here"

Actually the LHC Safty Assessment Group has conceded that results of cosmic rays striking stationary particles on Earth would send all potentially dangerous particles created into space.

Unfortunately head-on particle collisions may allow the results to be captured by Earth.
Jeremy of Virginia writes "He asserts that the particles will move a .99999% c."

I will contact the Admin.  The correct value is 99.9999991% of the speed of light in one direction and the same speed in the opposite direction for head-on collisions of thousands of protons at a time (or protons to anti-protons in some experiments), at temperatures lower than space and with powerful magnetic fields helping to compress the particle collisions into the smallest possible space.

JTankers,
LHCConcerns.com co-moderator
(Layman's site for both sides of the issues)
Nick Rozenski of Grand Rapids writes "there have been other particle-smashers that have worked and didn't create any black-holes".  

Actually they have started to get closer in those much less powerful previous colliders, including creating what is argued to be "dual black holes", not a black hole, just closer to one.

And CERN's safety web site in 2008 predicted possible creation of up to 1 micro black hole per second when collissions begin about 2 months after initial operations begin sometime this year.

CERN's safety web site still predicts that creation of micro black holes will not be an unexpected result.
Jeff of Nottingham, MD writes "odds of this killing us all are so low as to be laughable"

The legal action calculates 75% risk with a very high degree of uncertainty.  The actual risk may be closer to 0% or closer to 100%, science can not accurately estimate the odds at this time.
Tim V from Phoenix writes "I'll listen to the "experts"

One of them just helped author an excellent article by CNN at: http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/05/21/black.holes/?iref=mpstoryview
Do we know what a black hole is?  Let's make them cross the t's and dot the i's.  Then step forward into the future the way we always do.  What if they find out what gravity is?  Then we can use it...after they figure out how to suck the money out of out pockets.
We are so arrogant!
It's funny how, when you read these above remarks, the tone goes from "for it", to "against it", back to "for it", etc.  Like waves against the shore.  You still have the waves coming in and the undertow going out, no matter who is right.
I believe that it doesn't matter wether or not the LHC could destroy the world. The lawsuit agaisnt it has been filed in the United States and the LHC is on the French-Swiss border, i.e. in another country, last I saw the United States didn't own the world or have the authority to shut something down that is in another country, so if someone is going to try to shut something down they should at least do their homework and go to the country its located in and file a lawsuit there.
These guys are dumb[...] - Even if you could create a tiny black hole, its mass would be absorbed by the infinitely larger mass of the earth...Its total poppy cock. Just like the old "China Syndrome" Chernobyl proved that was a bunch of crap....


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=1043826

Latest Tech & Science News

Syndicate This Site

Add Cosmic Log to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google