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Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

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The next great planet debate

Posted: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:30 PM by Alan Boyle


STScI / NASA
Pluto and its satellite
Charon are the larger
objects in this Hubble
Space Telescope image.
Two even smaller
satellites, Nix and Hydra,
can be seen to the right.

How do you define a planet? Officials at the International Astronomical Union thought the matter was settled more than a year ago when it drew up a definition of planethood that separated little Pluto from its eight bigger siblings and put it in the dwarf-planet category. Boy, were they wrong.

Many astronomers say the definition that the IAU came up doesn't adequately reflect the diversity of worlds we see even in our own solar system - and arguably, might even exclude Jupiter as an official planet. Now a replay of the "Great Planet Debate" has been scheduled for August. Pluto may remain in the pint-size pigeonhole - but the other planets, in our solar system and beyond, would get their own pigeonholes as well.

The "Great Planet Debate" is due to begin on Aug. 14 at Johns Hopkins University's Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel, Md. Here's how the conference is described on APL's Web site:

"During the first two days of the conference, we will present what we have learned about planetary bodies over more than 40 years of robotic exploration of the Solar System and what we are learning about planets around other stars. The IAU’s dynamical definition of a planet will be presented, as well as an alternative geophysical definition. The utility of each will be debated, along with other potential planet definitions.

"A public lecture and panel discussion, featuring scientists who are prominent in the debate on planet definitions, is planned for the evening of the second day, following a reception that concludes the scientific portion of the conference.

"The third day of the meeting will be an Educator Workshop to discuss how the question of 'The Great Planet Debate' should be treated in schools and how that can be used as a springboard to discuss science as a process, as well as other topics in planetary science."

So what's being proposed as an alternative to the IAU's definition? The answer comes in a paper prepared last year by one of the conference's organizers, Mark Sykes of the Planetary Science Institute:

"'A planet is an object orbiting a star that has mass sufficient to maintain a gravity-determined (hydrostatic equilibrium) shape.' More simply put, planets are 'round' objects that orbit stars. Spacecraft imagery reveals that it is at this point of 'roundness' that solar system bodies begin to exhibit geology - reflecting interior processes, not just impact history. Smaller bodies (e.g., asteroids) are irregular 'inactive' objects. This definition is easily extensible to objects around other stars, unlike the [IAU's] Prague definition. ..."

The idea of revisiting the definition of planethood was a lively topic in Boston earlier this week during the American Association for the Advancement of Science's annual meeting - and it was in that context that Alan Stern, NASA's associate administrator for science, mentioned the August event.

Before he was brought into the space agency, Stern was one of the most vocal critics of the IAU's definition in his role as principal investigator for NASA's New Horizons mission to Pluto - and he's long been calling for just the kind of debate that is now scheduled to take place in August.

David Morrison, senior scientist at the NASA Astrobiology Institute at Ames Research Center in California, said astronomers are gaining a growing appreciation of the "wonderful diversity that we're finding outside our own solar system as well as inside."

The growing consensus is that it's wrong to divide the planetary lineup into first-class and second-class worlds. Planetary scientists say it's better to think of rocky, terrestrial planets (such as Earth, Mars, Venus and Mercury); gas giants (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune) and dwarfs (Pluto, Eris and Ceres, for example).

Morrison said there would almost certainly be other categories to come.

"I think any definition that was based just on the objects in our own solar system is going to be blown away when we actually look at the variety of other solar systems and the variety of things we think of as planets," he told me.

IAU delegates are due to gather again next year in Rio de Janeiro, and there's been some talk that revisions in the definition of planethood may be offered at that meeting. But Morrison and many of his colleagues say they won't look to the IAU for guidance, even if the organization decides to reconsider its Prague resolution. 

"I don't think the IAU should have been in this business in the first place," Morrison said. "If you look in a dictionary and you look up any word, you'll usually find four or five or six definitions. There's not one unique definition. You don't need a big international body to pass resolutions and vote to define a word.

"I think the IAU should just drop it," he said.

What do you think? Feel free to weigh in with your own arguments for the next "Great Planet Debate."

Update for 1:15 a.m. ET Feb. 21: The Planetary Science Institute's Sykes got back to me with an e-mail that goes into more detail on his proposed definition:

"...The definition is simple - planets are round things (in hydrostatic equilibrium against gravity) that orbit stars. This was basically the same thing proposed to the IAU, against which the dynamicists revolted.

"Dynamicists tend to think of objects as point sources whose importance depends upon their gravitational effects on other objects. The problem at the IAU was that everyone was involved in whether or not Pluto would be a planet, so the discussion that I saw was less than scientific. The Pluto-huggers were pushing roundness, the Pluto-haters were pushing dynamical dominance.

"When I started thinking about it more closely, my thought was focused on the intrinsic physical processes we study on the very different worlds to which we have sent spacecraft over the past 40-plus years. These processes are all related to phenomena we study on Earth (atmospheric processes, tectonics, volcanism, life, etc.). What I noticed is that all the objects for which any of these processes are observed are round. All objects on which none of these processes are observed are irregular.

"There are some very interesting reasons why 'round' is important in this situation - dealing with the onset of differentiation, mantle convection, etc. ('geophysical processes'). For those of us who study the physical characteristics of planetary bodies, who want to identify those objects that are expected to share these processes as a means of focusing our own scientific investigations (and targeting spacecraft), the geophysical definition is useful and the IAU definition is not. The IAU definition is useful as well, but to a much narrower group of investigators who happen to dominate the IAU and are far from representative of the planetary community (more members of which belong to geophysical professional societies than astronomical societies, interestingly).

"So do we teach children about who is 'right' or who is 'wrong'? I don't think so. Because of the public interest in the topic, I think it is a wonderful opportunity to discuss science as a process instead of a list of dry 'facts' delivered from on high."

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Comments

The definition of a planet needs reform, and I would like to see Pluto reinstated as a planet because I am traditional, though I'm still not sure it qualifies. The orbital path alone makes for a questionable debate. As for Morrison's statement, I think dictionary definitions have to come from somewhere; who better to define than the experts?
It's now 1 1/2 years since "Prague", and around the world - with the exception of one certain country - the new (and first-ever 'official') definition of 'planet' has been accepted and is being taught: One many levels people feel that the dynamical definition is a good one. And not just because it can be explained so easily (esp. when compared to most alternatives): The resulting small total number of planets and the stability of that number on a timescale of centuries satisfy the fundamental expectation that a 'planet', a term associated with the gods of antiquity, has to be something very special in our solar system. Before fiddling around with the status quo (and fantasizing about "a growing consensus" on an opposing view where there is none), I'd rather recommend re-reading http://www.thespacereview.com/article/703/1 ...
I grew up my entire life thinking there were nine planets; and now you tell me there are more (or less).  The next thing you are going to tell me is that there is no Easter Bunny!
I agree totally with involking roundness in the definition and orbits a star and is not a moon.
I think Mark Sykes from the Planetary Research Institute has come up with a great definition. I think haveing sub-catagories, like "dwarf planet", will eventualy become a problem. I'm sure there are planets out there that would make Jupiter look like a dwarf.
I agree. The IAU can't win on this one. They're first attempt made scientists look like a bunch of confused, muddle minded, would-be lexographers.
All of you are so full of yourselves it is amazing you can get from room to room or that two of you can fit in the same room.  We are on a tiny ball spinning in a vast universe. We are microscopic in comparison to the size of the universe, and you have the unmitigated gall to "decide" what should be called a planet?  Your collective egos are astounding and you should all be ashamed of yourselves.  We certainly do not need you to define the universe for us.
As with any other scientific definition, I don't believe that any one body of people should have the right to place a solid operating procedure on what defines a "planet" in the first place. Everything doesn't necessarily require an end-all answer. We should leave the labelling up to the people that discover or research these bodies and not overthink the subject.  
How about if we define 'astronomer' as .....
"A person who defines a 'planet' is an object orbiting a star that has mass sufficient to maintain a gravity-determined (hydrostatic equilibrium) shape."

That will settle the entire issue!

.
If it's round and orbits a star... it's a planet.  Why the need to complicate things?
I think there are two major definitions almost everyone can agree on, and possibly a third.

1) The object must orbit a start (not another planet, making it a moon)

2) The object should be rounded under its own gravity (hydrostatic equilibrium).

The third possible one is, that if the object has a moon, the center of mass of the planet and moon system should lie within the planet. Whether this be a necessity of the definition of a planet, or the definition of a moon, I don't know. But it avoids a debate in the situation (however rare it may be) when two objects of almost equal mass orbit eachother. In that situation it would be hard to call either one a moon or a planet, and would have to be designated a "planetary doublet" or something.

I think the requirement under the current definition that the planet should the neighborhood surrounding its orbit is a little contrived. I mean, what if a planet shared its orbit with a second planet that was half a period out of phase with the first. Or for that matter, how many moons does a planet need before it hasn't "cleared it's neighborhood"
i think pluto should be a planet
To paraphase the topic of trash/treasures, one could say that one man's planet is another man's asteriod. There will never be a "final" decision. I like the idea of categories. Rocky, Gaseous,etc. Leave size out of the equation.
Tell the IAU to stuff it.  I'm teaching my kids that Pluto is the 9th planet in our solar system.

Pluto '08
The definition 'A planet is an object orbiting a star that has mass sufficient to maintain a gravity-determined (hydrostatic equilibrium) shape' would cover both members in many a binary system, including white dwarfs, neutron stars and even black holes. Isn't it gravity that determines a black hole's shape?
Nuke Pluto.
Certainly planets differ in size and composition, but I still disagree with the current definition. I think that to exclude Ceres, Pluto, and Eris from true planethood stands only to obstruct the public education process on scientific topics.

Is it better to teach children about 8 planets, or 11?

Also, such a specialized definition as the current one will certainly cause problems as we expand our knowlege base about exoplanets and attempt to classify them. We should also reconsider the "double planet" definition (i.e. Pluto/Charon). I'm comfortable with the idea of the Earth/Moon system becoming a double planet one day (As the Moon's orbit enlarges over time).
This debate is a waste of time and resources, and only makes science for children allthemore confusing. We Grew up with the knowledge that there were nine planets, by classifying them and diminishing their value does nothing to make children want to study them. This group of self-important eggheads need to realize that it doesnt matter if Pluto's a planet or not, just that you need to make astronomy and other sciences more interesting to hold the interest of future scientist. Quit Quibbeling!
Here's my definition of a planet...

Any gaseous or rocky spherical object that orbits a star, is not a moon or satellite, regardless of size, chemical makeup, or distance from it's host star should be considered a planet.  I don't think we need more than one type of planet, ie, dwarf planets etc.  A planet is a planet.
before we start telling the world about our solar system planets we should have explored these orbs first than say if it is a planet
I think it will come down to lots of categories of planets (rocky, gas, giant, dwarf, etc.) But there still remains the basic "counting" question. It's not always easily defined, but what about identifying the major planets that orbit more or less in the formation plane and calling them "Main Sequence" planets or something.. Just a thought (although i'm sure there's lots of "what if's" that come with that and it won't account for the large variety that we will inevitably see out there.
Who are these people? Do they think just because they say so, that an orb in orbit around the sun is no longer considered an orb? Just because "THEY" say so? Gee there has to be important activities for the scientific community to be working on and pondering other than this nonsense. Pluto is and will remain a planet in my opinion. So also are the larger ones that have been found farther out. They are still locked in an orbit around our sun they are a round object with gravity and some have moons around them. You know like a planet......
I would think that they could be classified by the "inner life circle zone" of rocky planets that on the outer edge may support water and mobile natural life forms (like we have); then the gas zone that may only harbor primitive life in the outer film (like a mini solar system but where the "planets" would be the living entities); and finally the frozen zone which may harbor life locked in under the surface or none at all.  
The last zone being a storage depot for the other two zones,once we learn how to get out there and back with the goods (water, methane, minerals).  

I believe that all solar systems throughout the universe would follow this set up for their planets seeing as all Hydrogen and Helium atoms were made during the big bang and a star's gravitational forces make all the other elements resulting from Hydrogen and Helium fusion.  
You may have an odd mini solar system area like Jupiter where a moon may have life forms due to its own volcanic activity or influence by the mother gas giant or even in the atmosphere of the gas giant itself, but they will still be classified within the gas zone.
Because of all the variables and diversities of our solar bodies, why don't we make the definition of planets as simple as this, any solar componant greater in volumn than the largest moon orbiting any planet would be a planet. Any smaller would not be.
WHY ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO DEBATE ABOUT ANOTHER PLANET?? THEY ALREADY TOOK PLUTO AWAY FROM US NOW JUPITER? WHAT IS WRONG WITH JUPITER? I MYSELF STILL THINK PLUTO AS A PLANET EVEN THOUGH THOSE "SCIENTIST" SAY PLUTO ISN'T A PLANET AND IF THEY SAY JUPITER IS NOT A PLANET I WILL STILL CONSIDER IT A PLANET!
I believe that planets should be further studied and talked about in a respectable matere. I have no further doubt what scientist might discover.
We have star names that are over a thousand years old. We have constellations that represent things similarly ancient and have little relation to present day culture. If we can retain these for this long with no justification other than tradition, we can do the same for Pluto. It has almost 70 years of history as a planet, and was defined within our culture. If not, we should look at redrawing the sky atlases for more relevant constellations and issuing new star names.
Moral of the Poem: "Blindmen and the Elephant".

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,

Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,

And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

does it really matter?  Who will benefit from us NOT calling Jupiter and Pluto a planet???
Let's keep this simple for a change! Planets are like apples; there are many different varieties but they are all still apples. Why not have subcategories of planets but call them and count them as planets?! Let's move on.
I think its great that the IAU is getting together to discuss this. Jupiter is known to emit thermal and other forms of electromagnetic radiation and has been referred to as a "near star".

Other solar systems are known to have two stars in which a smaller star may orbit the larger star much like Jupiter orbits our sun.


If Pluto is considered to a 'minor' planet, why not the Earth, Mars, Venus and Mercury as well? Compared to the gas giants in our solar system and in the extrasolar systems discovered so far, none of the inner, rocky planets is worth mentioning--except for our fixation on potentially inhabitable worlds.
I think the two keys to a definition of planet are the hydrostatic equillibrium and the fact that they orbit a star.  If a body happens to primarily orbit a planet, instead of the star, then it is a moon.  To have bumped Pluto reduces our ideas of the diversity of our own solar system when it becomes increasingly clear that there is so much more to our solar system than just the sun and the bodies we have accepted as planets.  I'd love to see the view of the solar system increased than to take away what has for so long been an established order of planets.
I hope that the definition of a planet is changed.  We were robbed of Pluto and I don't want other planets to be reclassified.  I grew up knowing there were nine planets and I STILL believe that there are NINE.

As we learn more about solar systems in our galaxy and other galaxies the issue may need to be addressed again.  For now things should remain how they were before the IAU stuck it’s “nose” in the business.  I agree with Mr. Boyle, “the IAU should just drop it”.  I am afraid that if astronomers over analyze the planets there will be more categories than there are planets.
Even the term "gas giant" is subject to controversy.  Some astronomers prefer to call Uranus and Neptune "ice giants".  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_giant#Terminology
Why doesn't the IAU go and watch the old Star Trek series and adopt how Starfleet classified planets.
A ROSE BY ANY OTHER WOULD STILL SMELL THE SAME.
IAU delegates should come up with a definition, with the understanding that it would periodically reviewed.
I think that is the scietific method.
The Sykes 3-part definition sounds good to me, so far.
Just like species, orders, etc. of animals and plants, maybe it is a good idea to more precisely classify objects in space as well.  It will eventually be needed, the more we learn about other systems.
ok..theres a thing it circles our star..its round and has an orbit..soooooo di we need to waste everynes time by saying that they arent planets? what are they moons? scientists need to discover something new..they are getting bored..maybe find thier .never mind that wont get printed..is the sun a sun? who knows..maybe its just a really bright star..
As an astrologer, it doesn't matter WHAT they call little Pluto.  It still has a TREMENDOUS effect on our lives.....and possibly one of the most powerful.
I have always thought that it was wrong to downgrade Pluto. Hopefully the Astrobiology dept. will see the interstellar light and reverse the aformentioned demotion of Pluto.
i just love the fact that i am 26 years old, and, i learned about the "9" planets in our solar system.  now i have a 5 year old daughter and 13 month old son and when it comes time for them to learn of our solar system and planets i am going to have to re-educate myself.  why do we over analyze everything?  next thing you will tell me is the south won, hitler was a diplomat and elvis is alive. how about we start worrying about the things that matter. EARTH?!?!?         sorry... just like to vent about stupidity!

I realize this story was probably dictated and typed out by someone other than the author, but "axly"?  Did no editor read this, to correct to "actually"?

[Alan adds: Yeouch! I was rushed a bit with this item, and that abbreviation unfortunately slipped through. I also mistakenly referred to Sykes' organization as the "Planetary Research Institute" rather than the Planetary Science Institute. I've made correx for both mstks.]

While being able to classify and organize things are in the realm of science- taxonomy has always been disputed in the animal world.  How should things be organized?  What latin phrasing should we use to designate this animal into this kingdom or that order.  At a certain point the names are arbitrary.  Lets just nip it in the bud and provide a full dull detailed analysis of the object instead of an abreviation. i.e. instead of Earth, we'll say "a spherical mass that is comprised mostly of water, with a surface area of..."  Names are supposed to make things easier, so the only thing that is making things difficult are people who don't like what things are called.  Calling a zebra a brazier doesn't change the fact that it has stripes. And if someday we discover more equine-esque animals with larger stripes then a zebra a zebra will still be called a zebra. These people should choose one way and go with it. I say if the IAU wants to mess around with renaming celestial bodies then they should organize them by how they are formed. As an interesting side, in the following I've repleaced plant with planet from the website, www.rbg.ca
"Communication about planets requires that individual planets be grouped into species, and in many diverse situations communication further requires the recognition of higher-level units of classification.

Communication also requires that planets have widely accepted and recognized scientific names that reflect their positions in the hierarchy of classification. Anyone with a special interest in a planet specifiction for any reason must be assured of the identity of the planets in question.

And, of course, preservation of planet diversity depends on taxonomy, because measures cannot be taken to preserve a specific planet until its existence is known, until it can be distinguished from other planets, and until it can be referred to by name".

Pluto and Charon should be reinstated as a double planet, Because it has been proven they both orbit each other. However, That being said if Pluto were brought into the inner part of our solar system it would warm up and grow a tail! Now what kind of behavior is that for a planet? That would just be embarresing
I like the traditional use of the 9 planets(if there are more, wonderful). They revolve around the sun and renaming planets because they're not technically rock will just confuse a lot of people.  Even if they do change the names and classifications, I think people will just keep using the old ones.
It seems simple to me. A planet is any round object whose primary orbital relationship is to it's star.
Pluto was discovered while searching for a new "planet", found in the area predicted it became the ninth planet. Pluto and its moon Charon combined have only about 5% the mass of Mercury. Since Mercury is commonly considered a small planet, what does that make Pluto?

People have a strong response to Pluto's demotion from planet status, but how would we classify Pluto if discovered today? The first trans-Neptunian object? or nearest Kuiper belt body? Pluto may not even be the largest of these remote members of our solar system.

To the average person the IAU created an incomprehensible mess with the new definitions. Maybe Pluto should just be "grandfathered" in as a planet and the IAU can ignore it while coming up with the new definitions.


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