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Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

Check out Boyle's biography or send a message to Cosmic Log via cosmiclog@msnbc.com.



Evolution goes to church

Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 2:47 PM by Alan Boyle

It's usually not a pretty sight when religious belief and evolutionary theory mix, but that's what will be happening over the next few days in hundreds of locales around the country and around the globe, under the banners of Evolution Weekend and Darwin Day.


Rischgitz / Getty Images
This view of British naturalist Charles
Darwin, circa 1880, is based on a
painting by W.W. Ouless.

For two years now, educators and members of the clergy have been working together to bridge the gap between science and religion by organizing an annual teach-in, timed to coincide with the Feb. 12 anniversary of evolutionary theorist Charles Darwin's birth. In 2006 and 2007, the event was known as Evolution Sunday - but this year the organizers say the title has been changed to Evolution Weekend "in an attempt to be more welcoming to members of all religions."

Michael Zimmerman, the intiative's founder and dean of liberal arts and sciences at Butler University in Indianapolis, said the effort is going "phenomenally well" - even though some clergy have had to spin this year's sermons to accommodate the first Sunday of Lent rather than the Sunday before Darwin's 199th birthday.

"We have gone up almost 30 percent over last year, which was 30 percent over the year before," he told me.

Zimmerman is particularly pleased to see scientists get involved. More than 550 scientists from 29 countries have signed up to help answer questions from clergy or congregations, speak at church services or promote Evolution Weekend gatherings.

"I want to be clear: These scientists are not promoting religion, they're promoting good science," he said. "But they're perfectly willing to work with clergy to promote good science."

More than 800 congregations will be engaged in the dialogue this year. Check out the Web site to find a sermon near you - and in case you're in need of inspiration, more than 100 sample sermons have been posted on the resource page.

Darwin has his own day in the sun on Tuesday, when the countdown begins toward the big 200th birthday as well as the 150th anniversary of the publication of "On the Origin of Species." Hundreds of events around the world are offered on the Darwin Day calendar, aimed at celebrating the fruits of the scientific method as well as Darwin's contributions.

Bringing up evolution is a good way to start an argument, as we've seen repeatedly in the six years since Cosmic Log started up. Even in the wake of 2005's federal court decision on evolution education, the argument continues.

To get the anti-Darwin perspective, there are books such as "Darwin Day in America," which blames much of what's wrong with the world on evolutionary theory and materialism. You can also check in with the Discovery Institute and a gathering of blogs such as Evolution News & Views and Uncommon Descent.

Darwin's most vocal defenders include groups such as the National Center for Science Education, and blogs such as Panda's Thumb and P.Z. Myers' Pharyngula.

In this week's issue of the journal Nature, Berkeley paleontologist Kevin Padian addresses Darwin's top 10 legacies, ranging from natural selection to co-evolution. It's a shame the essay is available only to subscribers, but the first two paragraphs alone provide adequate fuel for further reflection and debate (or an argument): 

"Perhaps no individual has had such a sweeping influence on so many facets of social and intellectual life as Charles Darwin, born on 12 February 1809. Of the other two of the great nineteenth-century triumvirate of European thinkers, Marx's ideas have been distorted beyond recognition in their political execution, and Freud's approach to the psyche no longer merits scientific recognition. Neither man had Darwin's impact on the structure of empirical knowledge.

"In the past century and a half, Darwin's ideas have inspired powerful images and insights in science, humanities and the arts. Meanwhile, countless commentators ignorant of his meaning have borrowed his eloquence to plump their own chickens — from capitalism to 'evolutionary psychology.' Darwin has been invoked as the demon responsible for a variety of perceived heartless ills of society, including atheism, Nazism, communism, abortion, homosexuality, stem-cell research, same-sex marriage, and the abridgement of all our natural freedoms. One can scarcely imagine the horror that Darwin would feel at the misunderstanding, misappropriation and vilification of his ideas in the 125 years since his death. ..."

Speaking of debate, Nature also weighs in with questions about the idea of bringing the presidential candidates together for a debate focusing exclusively on scientific and technological issues. The theme gets more detailed treatment in a freely available essay from David Goldston, a former congressional staff member who is now a visiting lecturer in science policy at Harvard.

Are you ready to join the debate over religion, science and politics? Just add your comments below. But please, be civil.

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To Darren Sands:  Evolution IS just a theory!  A theory is a conceptual statement that can be submitted to empirical test.  It is difficult to prove the validity of events that happened when no one was around to observe them.  In a courtroom, it is a theory that person A killed person B.  The jury gets to see the evidence, and make a decision, but the standard of proof is only beyond a reasonable doubt.  They could still be wrong.  Likewise with evolution, it will remain a theory until someone shows up from out of the past who was there to see it happen.  

Like God.
It saddens me that so many of my fellow Christians are anti-evolution (for want of a better phrase).  If one's faith in Christ and desire to live as He wants us to is weakened by a 4.5 billion year old earth and the knowledge that humans descended from earlier beings, then that faith may have always been on shaky ground.  God Bless those churches that are observing Evolution Weekend
I have questions both on Evolution and Creationism. (1)If I adhere to Evolution, the Big Bang as for creation of the uinverse (many Planets/ many Galaxies) and all life, then does that mean Aliens exist? If I take Evolution to its full conclusion as being the genisis of creation I would have to believe intelligents or non-intelligents beings (Aliens) exist in other solar systems. If I deny this, then I deny the supposed fact of Evolution. (2) If you say that intelligents beings (Aliens) do not exist, I would ask how do you know this and why would Earth be the only planet with intelligents beings out of all the other planets and galaxies?
Let me ask the biologists who who believe evolutionary theory to be undisputable...were you there when it happened?  Has anyone actually observed macro evolution taking place before his eyes (or before the eyes of man in written history)?  I understand that different species may resemble one another and seem like one came out of another, but has anyone witnessed the transition?

As some scientists have already posted here, there are indeed many scientists (who attended the same universities with the same kinds of degrees) who believe there is sufficient evidence supporting  creation.  They may not be the majority, but they studied the same things you did and find it highly plausible.

I agree that Genesis wasn't written for scientific proof of creation. But for those who believe in God as He is revealed in the Bible, the process of macro evolution is wholly inconsistent with God's character as He reveals Himself: death did not become a part of the creation order until Adam & Eve sinned against God.  But if God created the world through evolution, life and death would have been the norm for millions of years prior to Adam & Eve (before sin entered the picture).
Here is a simple fact: science AND religion can and should coincide with each other, building upon each other and not detracting from one another. It wasn't until the Scopes trial that science and "religion" as some of you are calling it began to split apart. Just to be clear, I would call it faith and belief more than religion-which is a man-made institution.

Creationism and evolution are not compatible, but there is some common ground between the two! First of all, the creation account in Genesis begins with, essentially, God speaking light into existence. Stephen Hawking himself has speculated that the universe began from a single point of origin. Combine that logic with the notion of the existence of God and science and religion support each other.

Another speculation: who am I to speak for God, but this makes sense! According to the Bible, Adam was created from dirt: minerals/water etc. Everything that science has proven that our bodies are composed of. Wouldn't it have been reasonable to take a basic foundational genetic structure and tweak it for each species? Micro evolution has been proven so this would not be totally implausible or impossible.

Another instance in which science supports the creation theory: the fossil record. I would love to hear an explanation for why, after over a hundred years of searching for viable "missing links", we have not been able to produce a SINGLE REAL LINK! Each of the supposed links that has come to the forefront of scientific research has essentially been debunked as a fraud. If evolution is true, why have we not been finding true missing links and why must scientists take it upon themselves to create FAKE links?

Another dilemma that "modern science" faces is the "fact" that evolution happened by GRADUAL mutations. The fallacy lies in the speculation itself-attempted mutations will only produce either an unaffected offspring, a severely mentally/physically retarded offspring, or a dead offspring. How then, did we MUTATE from cosmic dust? If you believe this, then you believe in miracles which would validate the Scriptures...

Hopefully, these thoughts will give you something to ponder on as you continue your quest for truth and meaning in the Universe. The bottom line is this: we ALL have faith in something, we all just choose what to put that faith in...
Uh, Mark, where did Luther say to take the Bible "literally?" I believe Luther felt the Bible was true, yes, but "literally" like we understand that word today? I'm not familiar with all his writings, and would appreciate knowing the quote you refer to. Was he perhaps talking about the care he took to translate the Bible from Latin into German, which was widely criticized by some in his day? (See his 1530 letter) Thank you.
As a Christian I believe God created the universe.  When we examine our universe, we find evidence it has existed for millions, even billions of years and evolution is clearly found in the records of fossils and rock formations.  Darwin simply put into ideas and words what he found evidence of in our earth.  The wording of the Genesis creation account was not intended as a scientific statement, but to explain to people thousands of years ago that God is the creator in a manner they could understand.
The more I study for my Chemistry and Physiology classes, the stronger my faith in God becomes.
Carlos, do you believe everthing in the Bible as true? People lived to be 900 years old, Jonah swallowed by a whale and burped up! The Noah story and the creation story existed in Syria thousands of years before the Bible was written. Most of the biblical stories are adopted myths, embellished folk tales. Christmas is an adopted pagan holiday not Jesus birthday. These people were great story tellers because to create a following, there had to be miracles, larger than life events otherwise who would be captivated by an ordinary person doing uneventful things. How can you ignore science and believe the Bible as factual!! Unfortunately the embellished stories continue with books like Left Behind and evangelists taking one quote from the Bible, and making a whole mini-series out of it! [...]
One day the leading scientists decided that it was time to tell God that He was no longer needed and they wanted him to leave us alone.
God said "Okay, let's have a little contest and if you win, I'll go away."
They agreed. God said," Let's each create a man, the good old fashioned way."
The scientist said, "no problem" and he bent down and scooped up a handful of dirt.
God said, "no, no ,no....you don't seem to understand...GO GET YOUR OWN DIRT".
If man evolved from the ape, when and why did that evolution stop?  Wouldn't it still be going on or did someone say "that is enough"  
I became a Christian my senior year of College. What class? EVOLUTION! It, and embryology required to even take this class, do not speculate. Only the people ignorant to a true scientific education, or just refuse to even listen, are behind Creationism. I am a LDS-Mormon and have seen the proof of evolution. My faith works only one way-Blind Faith. If you were to put evolution and religion side by side and try to prove one or the other religion wouldn't stand a chance. Religion is  A BELIEF SSTEM. Not a FACT. Stop arguing and go to school. And, I do believe in a Creator. The argument something is so complex it cannot be explained by science so it can only be by a Creator's hand is just foolish. If we thought that way we would still think the stars were pin holes in the firmament. One-Hundred years from now science very well will explain the subject a Creationist believes is only possible by God.
God gave us intellect. Not using it is the greatest sin. I have a simple explanation that links evolution to creation hand in hand. When God said 'let there be light' that was an instant in His perception. In ours, the scientific explanation of billions of years of chemistry, physics and all the natural sciences to produce that light. Now. Where is the argument?
Scientists, environmentalists and others have been attempting to organize the natural world into a very linear form, when this is simply impossible.  The natural world is a complex system, and it is impossible, no matter what length of time is involved, for such a complex system to have started from non-living matter.  It is clear now after 150 years of searching that it is impossible to substantiate the theory of  'biological evolution' by findings in nature.  However, we should all have great respect for the power of rationalization.  

Darwin was by no means the first scientist to propagate this theory.  But like any other theory that attains to the lofty status of fact, there must be power and overwhelming evidence to support this theory.  However, Darwin's and many other scientists predictions regarding the theory of evolution have not been met.  Those who believe that life began from non-living matter need to examine to actual hard science of this theory.  
I too am a science major & supporter of evolution.  I'm a master's prepared reg nurse, have practiced for >30 yrs in nearly every aspect of the human condition & am also an associate professor at local college.  
I used to have much more tolerance for those whose religion provided them with personal comfort & strength until I lived in So. Cal for 10 yrs and finally became sickened by the whole ridiculous fantasy & rhetoric swallowed hook, line & sinker by grown (supposedly intelligent & responsible) individuals who then turn around & try to push their fairy tales & "moral code" on others!  
I hold the greedy religious movement leaders responsible for most of the serious issues we now face - from dumb religiously provoked wars to human suffering, current environmental devastation, the horrendous sense of entitlement resulting from the basic American lifestyle - promoting lethargy, obesity, disease, arrogance, ignorance & waste.
There's likely no way the religious & science communities will ever bridge the enormous gap between them - it's just not possible to truly believe in both things simulateously.  The funniest of all the bantering is when the religious folks get backed into a corner & can no longer quote bible verse or otherwise support their legends & myths, they pull out the ol' "Well, that's not for us mere humans to know!"  ha ha!  Yeah, that's actually quite comical!!!
Religion today is in clear conflict with science. There is no doubt about that. But still... The immense peaceful feeling and sense of protection I get when I go to church is remarkable. I am a Physician and I had spent the past 4-5 years of my life pondering over this very question of Who Am I? What is the ultimate target?!?!?!? It all started when I decided to take on  the challenges of Neuroscience as my career... In other fields of medicine... there is a clear direction... goal directed effort. Like in Cardiology - it simple - increase the pumping activity of heart. In infectious diseases - again its about finding the infectious agent and the target is to get it out of the body. But Neuroscience - there is a lot of progress... but we dont have a target ... we dont have a direction like the above... so it lags behind in research and neurological (and I may say Psychiatric) diseases still pose the biggest challenges today.

***I might seem here to be wandering off topic... but actually its all very interconnected ... just take a moment to reflect upon and think about it***

I see religious teachings as codes of conduct in accordance with "HUMAN AWARENESS" of that time. While human awareness makes progress... Religion also needs to evolve... and come up with newer codes of conduct in accordance with the current level of awareness. Imagine ... had there been no bible 1000 years ago or no Bhagvad Gita or there were no spiritual leaders like Buddha... what would have been the fate of humanity!!! Might be more like wild animals. Therefore... I am of the opinion that religion needs to be constantly updated because as human awareness increases, through science or otherwise... I see it just as - Man used religion to know who he is... and as soon as he came to know about Himself... he doesn't need the old religion anymore... BUT he still needs a direction... a meaning... a purpose - The feeling remains the same (such as the same peaceful feeling in a church)... and a new religion needs to be constructed... which would help him advance further!

Thats how I see it.
Many prominent creationists apparently have the same view of truth as political radicals: whatever advances the cause is true, whatever damages the cause is false. From this viewpoint, errors should be covered up where possible and only acknowledged when failure to do so threatens greater damage to the cause. If colleagues spread errors, it is better not to criticize them publicly. Better to have followers deceived than to have them question the legitimacy of their leaders. In science, fame accrues to those who overturn errors. In dogmatic systems, one who unnecessarily exposes an error to the public is a traitor or an apostate.

Ironically, creationists make much of scientific errors. The "Nebraska Man" fiasco, where the tooth of an extinct peccary was misidentified as belonging to a primitive human, is ubiquitous in creationist literature and debate presentations. So is the "Piltdown Man" hoax. Indeed, creationist propagandists often present these two scientific errors as characteristic of paleoanthropology. It is significant that these errors were uncovered and corrected from within the scientific community. In contrast, creationists rarely expose their own errors, and they sometimes fail to correct them when others expose them.

I see no reason that the two ideas cannot live together. THE CALENDER AS WE ALL KNOW ONLY GOES BACK SO FAR. AND GODS DAYS PROBABLY WERE NOT OUR 24HOUR CYCLE. THUS CREATION DID NOT HAPPEN IN 2004BC AS AN 1872 BIBLE THAT I RECENTLY OWNED SAID. BOTH THEORYS HAPPENED AT THE SAME TIME. yOU MIGHT EAKE A LOOK AT
A COPY OF " The Universe vol 1, By Stephen Hawkings
that suggests that thy are the same thing.
Timothy,

Apparently, if the Bible is accurate on scientific matters, it needs a better editor.  The circle is a round, flat, two dimensional object.  God should have let Isaiah know the earth is more correctly a "sphere."
Evolution goes to church? Church should be going to evolution and realizing all the centuries of it's wrongdoing.

However, I must say, the process of evolution has laid to waste more life in the history of the earth than any miniscule (by comparison) holy war or religiously motivated killing ever has. The only difference is, evolution replaced another form with what it did away with and on no thinking terms either!
As the years roll by man will come to better understand the intertwining relationship between evolution, a creator, physical life and the habitat. Man will come to realize the limitations of earths life supporting abilities and the fragile make up of the planet that is ever evolving and constantly self mending. While it appears god remains a theoretical entity created to foster hope there is a purpose for every thing that happens and life after death, the same evidence that proves evolution is factual also proves there is a supreme intellect and architect that created and maintains it all. The factuality of evolotion lies within and all around. And the interdependence of all life forms is undeniable. Each specific life form preforms a specific function for the health and wellbeing of all other, as well as the habitat. Vegitation inhales carbon dioxide and exhales oxygen, while mobile life forms inhale oxygen and exhales carbon dioxide. And all life forms are ever evolving, all begin from a seed (egg) and constantly evolves over the duration of a lifetime and each species leave behind offspring that are unique unto themselves as were their parents. Evolution is the most useful tool of the creator. It is the tool the creator employs to maintain a healthy balance of interdependent life forms within the habitat and the life supporting necessities to support whatever life forms. The great misconception held by most religeous sects is that life on earth is about behavior, sin and forgivness, demons and messiahs, but in fact life upon earth is all about education, knowledge and wisdom attained through witness and experience, an eventual comprehension of all that is about and within. And if life upon earth is in fact all about education, that in itself proves there is a here-after after all. GOD BLESS ALL, GOD DID WHEN EACH WERE PROVIDED THE GIFT OF LIFE
Let's flip this dicussion for a bit and place the burden of proof on the defenders of creationism.  We already know that Creationism can't be given any scientific credit because nobody can scientifically proove a creator exists (no, the Bible cannot prove it either.  The bible cannot prove the bible.  The would be a circular reference).  

Aside from that, can any of the stories in the bible be supported with any artifacts mentioned in the stories?  Was an ark ever found?  Shroud of Turin? (proven hoax).  If the Euphrates river flowed through the garden of Eden, then I should be able to find the locked gates.  Where are they??  Were Adam and Eve black or white?  If white, then where did all the black people come from?  Who was Cain's wife?  Was there truly a global flood?  If so, where did all the water go?  All I'm asking for is some REAL EVIDENCE to backup these stories.  The first guy to hold up a bible as evidence is disqualified.  Again, the bible cannot prove the bible.  Ok creationists, you're on!
Lisa Ellen Hasher:
I believe everything in the Bible is true.  The Bible does not say Dec 25 is Jesus' Birthday, lol.  No one believes it's Jesus' birthday. Because of our ways, God allowed us to fall in the garden, and punished us with the flood.  Prior to the flood, conditions were different.  Some scientists have generated theories based on taking Genesis literally that would account for man living hundreds of years.  We don't quite understand it all yet, but the atmosphere may have been different because of the upper firmament. I don't have the luxury of explaining it all now, but I have found and now believe with all my being that the Bible is the complete, flawless Word of God.  You might find it interesting to check out the scientific theories supporting creation, and how it was discovered through the literal study of the creation story in Genesis.  

It's possible Neanderthal just could be the bones of those that lived before the flood when man lived hundreds of years, even if they aren't.
Bringing up the "pre-U.S. education system" past does not help this debate. There are several postings that imply that scientists study evolutionary theory in depth in college and that this study brings them to the conclusion that evolution is a sound example of good science. This is far from the truth. I am in my 30s, and have been spoon-fed evolution from Kindergarten through my last year of college. It was not a debatable subject that I could tell - until the semester that I took Historical Geology with a preacher's son in a course that was taught by an atheist college professor. I did not go to church in my childhood, so I didn't have a clue that other theories existed. It wasn't until late in my college career that I began exploring religious ideas along with my daily courses in science (majoring in Biology and Geology) that I realized how poorly evolution theory addressed so many issues such as a lacking fossil record, irreducible complexity, and other matters that I now only read about in Christian publications.

If any of you are truly scientists, then you know that even laws of science are NOT infallible. In a scientific light, both creation and evolution are flawed theories that may never be proven...until physicists develop some time travel capabilities...OK I'm digressing.... On the other hand, for people of faith, there is more at stake when aligning your beliefs with something that contradicts God's Word.

For the record, I'm not on the fence. I'm 100% a believer in God's creation. Trying to sort out the scientific reason that we walk upright does not bear any significance for my life, and I doubt seriously that anyone other than geneticists TRULY will be affected by the outcome of this debate. They would spend their time better studying what exists now, and how it works now. Oh yeah, they're already doing that! Silly me.
We have a world full of religious zealots and look at the shape our world has been in for the hundreds of years of religion. How many more young highschool kids must die for religion, God and politics. Get rid of religion and politics, replace blind faith with unproven theory and perhaps we can spend our time searching for scientific truth instead singing offtune in the chapel and replace corrupt politicians with intelligent citizens who are subject to the same laws we citizens are.
Good show, as usual, Alan.  Can I toss in a few ideas, please?

Science says that it is impossible to "prove" a negative.  How come so many then say that God can't exist?

Why do so many accept the "fact" that an observer can determine either the location or the speed of a certain "particle" but not both together?  At the same time, they reject the idea of God because they cannot "see" Him or "feel" his presence.

We live exclusively in a three-dimensional universe, but science postulates, without qualms, at least 11 dimensions to explain string theory, and accepts that "impossibility" quite readily.

I think it was G. K. Chesterton who famously said "They denounce Christianity, saying it has been tried and found wanting, but I think it has not been tried at all.  Period."
According to the early texts of Christianity, Jesus speaks to someone, saying, "If you don't believe me when I tell you earthly things, how will you be able to hear heavenly?"
Science is earthly things and religion heavenly.
To love God with your whole heart and mind and strength and soul is religion; loving your neighbor as yourself is politics.
This melding of God and evolution is plain silly. God is belief supported by superstition and evolution science supported by facts.  The two have nothing in common.  Got it?
TO SUGGEST THAT BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE WORKS AS IT DOES PROVES THE EXISTENCE OF GOD IS RIDICULOUS. LOOKING AT THE RESULTS OF SOMETHING AND JUDGING BY WHAT IT IS IT MUST HAVE BEEN PLANNED? THE GRAND CANYON WAS CARVED BY WATER AND IT IS SPECTACULAR. BUT IT IS THE RESULT OF THE WATER NOT A PLAN. FACE IT PEOPLE WHEN FORKS WERE INVENTED THEY WERE CONSIDERED A SLIGHT AGAINST GOD WHO HAD GIVEN YOU FINGERS TO EAT WITH. COLUMBUS HAD TO PRETEND AMERICA WAS INDIA WHILE THE CHURCH DID DAMAGE CONTROL, THE POSSIBILITY THAT YOUR RELIGION GOT SOMETHING AS COMPLEX AS A CREATER OF EVERYTHING 100% RIGHT IS LAUGHABLE AT BEST. AND AS I REMEMBER GOD NEVER PUT PEN TO PAPER IT WAS MEN. AND THE BIBLE HAS BEEN REWRITTEN MANY MANY TIMES AND GONE THROUGH AT LEAST 3 LANGUAGES TO GET TO ENGLISH. TAKE 1 PARAGRAPH,WRITE IT IN FRENCH AND HAVE 5 DIFFERENT PEOPLE TRANSLATE IT. I GUARANTEE IT WILL NOT BE WORD FOR WORD AND YET YOU TAKE THE BIBLE LITERALLY? THE HEBREW LANGUAGE DOESNT HAVE ANY VOWELS. FROM THAT TO LATIN TO GERMAN TO ENGLISH. ITS EASIER TO PROVE EVOLUTION THAN TO FIGURE OUT THOSE TRANSLATIONS. THE QUEST FOR KNOWLEDGE SHOULD NOT STOP BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU UNCOMFORTABLE TO THINK YOU MIGHT BE WRONG.
Nothing produced by Dinesh D'Souza could remotely be considered "scientific" or "sophisticated."  He's a shill for a right-wing publisher, and is most assuredly not a scientist of any bearing.  

Unlike Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, or Sam Harris, D'Souza has never studied or, more importantly, published anything peer-reviewed on evolution (or any other scientific premise).  It's highly disingenuous to suggest that his book has anything reasonable to say on the subject.
n.f.wilson:
Evolution has not stopped, the problem that many people have with it is the timescale involved.
evolution can happen more quickly within a small population, but it still takes many generations for any significant change to take place(that means that any significant change to the human race will take place long after you and I are gone).
this is easy when the timescale is millions to billions of years, but impossible to understand if one thinks the Earth is only 10,000 years (or less) old.

the greatest problem with those that take the "great flood" literally, is that it actually requires something like "super evolution" to account for all the species that now currently exist.
To add to my earlier comments. No one could possibly know that man was created in the image of god as some religeous texts profess. It is far more likely that man created an image of god in his own likeness, complete with his emotional deficiencies such as prejudice, discrimination, vengence and anger. In attempting to envision an unfamiliar  being, man cannot envision an entity without a body or face, cannot envision purity of emotion void of handicap, so he envisions god in a near likeness of himself.... It would seem far more likely that a soul, not man is gods particular life form, and far more likely a soul is more in the likeness of god, for a soul is a unique form of energy that is concsious of self and surroundings, is a form of energy equipped with a personality and demeanor that makes it  unique from all others, and is a form of energy that is ever lasting. The body of man consists entirely of matter and is subject to damage and the errosive elements that surround it. A body (whatever type) is merely a vehicle, whereas a soul is the operator, the operator that pushes the buttons,pulls the levers and operates the throttle to make the vehicle preform whatever task. But a some point when a vehicle becomes damaged beyond repair or simply wears out, the operator must vacate and go in search of another vehicle in order to continue the journey. When a body ceases to function and is nolonger operable however, it is not the end of life and experience, it is but the end of one of many chapters in the journey of a soul in search of total comprehension and home
Hmmm. let's turn it around shall we?

Perhaps no individual has had such a sweeping influence on so many facets of social and intellectual life as Jesus of Nazareth.  No other first-century man had Jesus' impact on the structure of modern Western societies.

   In the past 2 millenia, Jesus' ideas have inspired powerful images and insights in science, law, humanities and the arts. Meanwhile, countless pretenders ignorant of his meaning have twisted his teachings to plump their own chickens — from the Crusaders to Jim Jones. Jesus has been invoked as the demon responsible for a variety of perceived heartless ills of secular society, including charity, mercy, grace, opposition to abortion, homosexuality, stem-cell research, same-sex marriage, and the abridgment of all our unnatural freedoms. One can scarcely imagine the horror that Jesus would feel at the misunderstanding, misappropriation and vilification of his ideas in the 2000 years since his death and resurrection. ...
I find it incredible that we are still having this debate.  I argue with my sister all the time.  She believes that Noah had dinosaurs on the Ark.  I have moved past the bible fairy tales that I was forced to listen to as a child.  Evolution happens every day.  Just look at the different breeds of dogs, they all may have started out as wolves, but through human intervention and 'Directed' evolution (read selective breeding) we have created the Chinese Crested dog which is so far away from it's wolf ancestor that it's hardly recognizable as a canine.
TO ME BELIEF IN EVOLUTION IS BALONEY. HOW IS IT THAT THE FOOD WE EAT AND THE AIR WE BREATH CAME ALONG AT JUST THE RIGHT TIME TO SUPPORT LIFE. THEN TOO,HOW COME THERE ARE TWO SEXES AND NOT JUST ONE. WHAT ABOUT THE ANIMAL/BIRD/FISH,ETC.KINGDOMS? DID THEY TOO DEVELOP BY EVOLUTION? IT IS A GARBAGE THEORY!!!!!!!
To N.F.Wilson, evolution has not stopped! If man evolved from an ape or whatever, it was over a very long period of time. Recent changes in mankind is our size. We are constantly getting taller and taller. Look around you. Its very slow but happening. Archeological findings slowly put pieces together because our recorded history only covers a very short span of time. Is God playing a joke on us by burying all these fossils we dig up!
God is the Creator of all things and so is the system he put in place for survival to occur. Evolution is just an extended theory of God's system. Usually changes are brought about through changes that occur outside the norm. Man has done the most damage to our survival by wiping out a whole species and damaging the environment that He created.
Theories do not persist without evidence.  Religions thrive in those areas for which we lack evidence.  But, as our knowledge grows, our gods shrink, or morph into something that fits better into the current gaps of our knowledge.  The only way for the two to avoid conflict, is for science to remain our pursuit of knowledge and religion to remain a personal belief system that helps some cope with the unknown using arbitrary explanations.  And the arbitrary nature of belief systems is why no government should ever institutionalize a religion or its beliefs.
First of all, if scientists would just look at the FACTS and I mean FACTS, they would see that evolution in its entirety is a fraud. Let's use Jean Baptiste Lamarck's theory of evolution. Lamarck proposed that once giraffes had long necks, but then a drought came and all the little bushes and low-lying plants were eaten by the smaller organisms, at this point giraffes then stretched their necks to get the leaves on the trees. So, when one not-so-long-necked giraffe gave birth she would give birth to another giraffe with the same not-so-long-neck, this process repeating over and over again until we got modern giraffes. First of all, since the drought has ended, where are the short-necked giraffes? Secondly, it was a custom of Chinese mothers to bind the back of their daughters with the front, causing them to be crippled but to have "beautiful" small feet. If Lamarck were right then why did the chinese mothers have to bind their daughters feet? Shouldn't they have been born with them extremely small and crippled after all those generations of binding? Now to Hugo De Vries Evolution Mutation Theory. De Vries proposed that for biological evolution to take place a major mutation would have to occur.Ok. Well, a cell can divide 10 million times before a mutation occurs. Also, almost all mutations are Somatic, having no effect on the offspring. And even when the mutation is genetic, it would have just double or subtract one from the chromosome count. In De Vries theory an entire new gene would be made. We're talking hundreds of thousands of mutations occuring in just the right order.Can anyone say impossible? yeah I think so. Now to Neo-Darwinism, today's modern evolution theory. Here, evolutionists have combined De Vries Mutation Theory with Darwin's Natural Selection. Have you ever heard of the example of the rat being the common ancestor of the bat? They say that the rat eventually evolved into the bat. But, the rat-bat would eventually reach the stage where it couldn't run or fly. I think it's really weird that an environment similar to those of rats back in the time that these supposed mutations were taking place would EVER favor a creature that could neither run nor fly.
Try this on for size!  Science studies, observes, records data and repeats the process over and over and over. This process may arrive at a definitive answer to a problem or a possible theory. Religion, on the other hand, already has every thing figured out. God sends the message through his pastors, ministers , bishops, evangelists etc. to the flock through the church, books, cds and TV. If all of this is coming from God, why are there so many different ideas, interpretations coming from the so-called anointed ones! If its coming from God, wouldn't they all say the same thing! My point is that science doesn't rely on blind faith for support of its ideas. Religion on the other hand, demands you follow or else, you may end up in the lake of fire for eternity! I must go now, I need to find a fire retardant wet suit!
My question to people whom believe in evolution is U can say we evolved but something put that there U can't just appear outta nowhere that's ignorant to think that way something had to create the animals & the planets they don't just form outta thin air so I don't see why this is so hard for people not to believe in a higher power sure we can't see God until we get to Heaven ok I get that fine so be it but U know what I do see I see everything on this planet that's beautiful & wonderful & I believe that something bigger & more powerful then we can ever imagine to create all of this it's amazing when I look at the mountains from being up in a plane I cry cuz they're breathtaking I know that something created it & to me he doesn't get enough credit for his masterpiece cuz we try to make up all this stuff to deny what really happened soo many years ago cuz our minds are tini & we only use so much of our brains & if we did we'd then be able to see God but we can't while on earth his beauty is reflected in all that's been created for us to see on a milder plane our eyes are adjusted to see it all & take it all in but God is even moreso then that & our eyes would literally pop out from his sight he's just too big but U know what he did for us he sent Jesus & then we could see through him cuz he's in human form & that we can understand & adjust to right away there's your prove God exist through him no doubt about that AMEN!
To Mike G, In support of your blog about different translations of the Bible, get the book'Misquoting Jesus' by Bart Ehrman. He is a world-class biblical scholar that was startled to discover the multitude of mistakes and intentional alterations made by early translators. His study of the Greek manuscripts caused him to abandon his ultraconservative views of the Bible.
I believe that, creation came first and
than evolution followed.

god is man made, it comes from paganism.
Pagans had gods and godesses.

Religions are also man made, just to control people.
It is My beliefs, I am not a religious person.
Not being religious doesn't mean I'm a bad human being. Religions killed millions of people,
more people than wars have killed.
The poetry of studying evolution:
Float, decade to decade, with an idea of the earth, the universe past and future, as a pencil sketch.  Decade to decade, bursts of fact fill in fantasies, coloring the sketch.  A kaleidescope emerges, crystallized images of deep history to distant future, millenia contained in one mind, one life.  It is complete.  Linda Kirk, 2008
I would argue that those who believe in creationism not only do not understand evolution, they do not understand the reality of their own faith. 1) They do not understand that the King James Version of the bible represents only a small percentage of all the books of the original writings. That the vast majoritity of those writings were censored. (i.e. The dead sea scrolls, the writings of the Gnostic, The books of the Egyptian, etc.) This was not an act of God but an act of man. 2) What is now referred to as the bible is the product of unnumbered revisions of the original text, each one altered by men to have God say what they wanted him to say and simply bad translations. Again, an act of man, not God. 3) The writings of the bible and the words of Jesus were intended for people who had no understanding of how the world really worked and had to have these ideas put in a way that illiterates, as most people were then, would be able to comprehend the ideas in a way that a toddler of today would need to frame it so they could relate them to there own limited lives. 4) Finally, you must include the present day misinterpretations and misrepresentations of what the text says in the King James bible, again as represented by men, not God. The best that can be said is that you have been lied to! If you believe that God created a perfect world you must believe that the methods science uses to,say, date fossils are as natural and as perfect as He made them. Yet you chose to believe that after all the corruption by men of God's word that it is God that is lying. That although God provided evidence that man and dinosaurs did not coexist the corrupt word of man says they did. Using the method God provided for man to prove such as this it is God, not man, that is lying to you. I say this unto you: Until you understand the word of God and how men have corrupted it you cannot understand your own faith. If you cannot understand your own faith you can understand nothing. Until the WHOLE bible is given to you with proper translation you cannot know the will or the word of God. It would be far better for you to adopt a humanist approach to understand God's will rather than to blindly follow those who only want to have power over you. Although huminists do not atribute being good and doing good to a supernatural being the intent, in the end is the same and would provide a better understanding of creation, evolution and life in general whether your own or Gods will. But whenever I hear the someone going on that creationism trumps science it is obvious that person understands neither.
The human mind is so powerful or delusive that they can choose to believe or otherwise by ways of reasoning.
The fact remain that in this world , they are so many religions who claimed that by only believing in their god, it's the only way to reach heaven ! The logic being that either one of them is true or all of them are delusions.The human being due to part of the evolution process never want to let go their fear and accept death as part of natural selection. With religion this eliminate their fear cos heaven is awaiting them all.
The evolution theory is based on overhelming evidences and explain how we all come about and Sir Darwin should be awarded a noble prize for it.        
Humanity has been around for THOUSANDS of years before the bible. I for one belive in evelution. Feh, god, please. We only created him because we do not understand the true complexity of the universe and how it runs. we are young, we still have much to learn. We learn more every passing year through science. So for the belivers of faith, you keep beleiving that your god created the planet or humanity/ life in general or whatever in 6 days. I for one say millions of years through evolution is the only truth for our dominance on earth.
Why is it that the people on here screaming the loudest about God, christianity, and their anti views on science and evolution always have misspellings in their rants? Being able to quote the bible chapter and verse is NOT the same as having a REAL education and a college degree, and a good grasp of english!
1) The argument that all creationists use is apes evolving into man. The reality: Apes and Humans share a common ancestor. Research on Chromosome 2.

2) The creationists argue that darwinism is racism and resulted in genocide. The reality: Darwinism is when a species evolve (or mutate) to survive their environment an example is bacteria and its resistance to medicine. The bible was used for slavery. Hitler said he was doing gods' works, the vatican were supporting him.

3)The creationists argue about how god created everything and the bible is gods word (if one is a christian obviously). The reality, the contradictions of the bible of all forms and demoninations, including and especially the Watchtower cult. There is no evidence of a worldwide flood, the gospel accounts are fictious and conflict with each other. The alleged disciples of an alleged jesus did not write the gospels, it was someone else. Plus the whole history of HOW the bible was put together and translated is another story.

4)The bible is not accurate on scientific matters, rather a cultural, and plagarised account. It deals with what the men who wrote the old testament decided. including embellishments such as a massive kingdom of david when archaeology proves it to be a tribal village. Plus no jews in egypt! A bat is not a bird. There are no unicorns. Bible is pornographic [...] 2 kings 18:27 amongst others!! 

5)Creationists argue that there are no transitional fossils. The reality: They have no idea on how a fossil is made, they have no idea that the earth is contantly changing-volcanic activity etc. They have no idea that transitional fossils have been found are and are well documented.

6)The creationists argue that there are evolution hoaxes etc. The reality, even desperate religious bigot fanatics, also make hoaxes to get credibility, such as the turin shroud:fake, biblical texts and gospels:fake and copies, the watchtower cult with their new light.

7)The creationists argue that darwinism and atheists have no morality. The reality: read every religious scripture and you will find more pornography that in an adult book store. Religious enjoy relying on faith and have vicious arguments when their faith is being challenged. The religious enjoy putting their beliefs on others, but plays the victim when someone calmly tells them to keep their beliefs to themselves. Also like to preach hell, and enjoy scientific technology.

8) Last point. They deny the existance of other gods, I go one (or three or how many they have) god(s) more than them. The EVO/god debate might end in the next 1000 years, if jesus has not arrived or armegeddon has not happened, or if the world is taken over by the religious fanatics.
oh I didn't read the 2nd page of comments:

9) Creationists argue that evolution is a theory. a) COMMON usage is NOT PROPER USAGE. b) have they any idea of scientific ideas and methodology? do they even learn science at school? Also if jesus EVER returns like he said, I think that will sort everyone out. I'll be waiting.

10) Using CAPS to show their opinion. common sense: 'there are two sexes', snails are hermaphrodite that is male and female, fish can change the gender, 'virgin' sharks (female offspring only) and komodo dragons (male offspring only) can have babies without a male. The bible said that all females shall have pains of birthing but it seems that god messed up because male seahorses give birth.

thankyou for reading.


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