ABOUT COSMIC LOG

Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

Check out Boyle's biography or send a message to Cosmic Log via cosmiclog@msnbc.com.



Is Martian life on ice?

Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:54 PM by Alan Boyle

Scientists have long known that Mars' polar regions contain huge reservoirs of frozen water, but today's findings on the depth and purity of that ice have raised the regions' profile as a place to search for evidence of life - as well as a destination for future human missions.

The splashiest fact coming out from today's research, published online by the journal Science, is that there's enough water in the south polar region's layered deposits to cover the entire Red Planet in a liquid layer about 36 feet (11 meters) deep.

That may sound like a lot - but the lead researcher behind the study, Jeffrey Plaut of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, told me today that Mars must have had lots more when it was a warmer, wetter planet, perhaps billions of years ago. That conclusion is based on the erosional patterns seen on Mars today.

"You probably need 10 times as much water as we've identified in order to do all that erosion," Plaut said.

What's more surprising about today's result, at least for the experts, is the purity of the ice. Radar readings from the MARSIS instrument on Europe's Mars Express showed that the ice was at least 90 percent pure water. Those ice layers go down as far as 2.3 miles (3.7 kilometers) beneath the surface - and are topped by a mixture of ice and dust that may be only a yard (meter) or so thick.

All this makes the little-explored polar deposits more tantalizing for Mars mission planners, Plaut said. NASA's Mars Polar Lander would have touched down amid such deposits if it hadn't crashed back in 1999. The Mars Phoenix lander, due for launch in August, will study the planet's high northern latitudes.


NASA
An artist's conception shows a "Cryobot" melting
its way through the Martian ice beneath a lander.

Plaut said more ambitious missions to the layered deposits are already in the works. "There have been some proposals to use some clever ways to drill into these deposits from a lander or a rover," he said. "There are some devices that would melt through the material, and they would have to manage the liquid they produce. That's one way some of the new information we're getting could be fed through."

Some schemes call for sending "Cryobots" capable of melting their way through a few hundred yards (meters) of ice - then analyzing the water for signs of life using miniaturized lab equipment.

All this is music to the ears of Richard Hoover, who heads the astrobiology group at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center. He and his colleagues have reported not only that the layered deposits contain abundant water ice, but also that the ice is subject to thawing and refreezing.

"The existence of water ice, and from time to time liquid water on Mars, is profoundly important to the existence of life on Mars," he told me today.

A couple of years ago, Hoover found 32,000-year-old bacteria in samples taken from Alaskan permafrost - and when the ice thawed, the organisms came back to life.

"What that means about the layered deposits of ice in the polar regions of Mars is that any microorganisms that were living when the ice melted would have been frozen into the polar cap, and would have been preserved intact, and may be even still alive," Hoover said. "You've got there a frozen record not only of life that may have inhabited the cap itself, but also may have been contained in cometary debris from elsewhere. All of this would have been put into deep-freeze cryopreservation, and could still be alive."

Even if microbes couldn't be reanimated, the ice could conceivably preserve the genes, the DNA or the biochemistry of Martian life. "Even a dead microorganism from Mars would be a great treasure," Hoover said. Assuming that the signs of life are preserved in the ice, scientists could learn whether or not life on Mars followed the same patterns seen on Earth.

"I have to say it could well be that life on Mars is exactly the same as life on Earth," Hoover said. Cosmic impacts could have blasted debris containing microbes into space - transferring the stuff of life from Earth to Mars, or vice versa, he said.

"We could easily have transferred Earth biology into space, where it could have been picked up by comets and transferred then to other regions of the solar system," he said.

Martian water ice could serve as an important resource for future life on the Red Planet as well, said Robert Zubrin, president of the Mars Society. For years, Zubrin has pressed for humans to settle on Mars sooner rather than later - and he said today's findings serve as just one more sign that Mars is a far better destination than the moon.

"All this defines Mars as the appropriate goal for human settlement as well as the search for life," Zubrin said.

Zubrin said the layered deposits might not be the best place to plunk down a settlement: At 70 degrees south latitude, the edges of the region are still not quite close enough to the equator for Zubrin's tastes. Nevertheless, he's heartened by the latest findings about frozen water.

"If  it's everywhere at 70 degrees, then you may have it at isolated locations at 60. ... Looking at the data more closely, you may find places that not only have the water but also have interesting geological features," he said.

Zubrin isn't so heartened, however, by NASA's current focus on going back to the moon, and only then maybe moving on to Mars. He pointed to a 50-year outlook that NASA Administrator Michael Griffin wrote for Aviation Week, speculating that the space agency just might be able to send humans to Mars by the year 2037.

"When you say you're going to do something 30 years from now, you're basically saying you're not going to do it," Zubrin complained. "If you wanted to go to Mars in 2037, you could shut NASA down now, reopen it in 2020 and start from scratch. ... We really shouldn't be seeking to delay for a generation taking on the challenge of Mars."

NASA's take on the moon-vs.-Mars debate is that the moon has to serve as a close-at-hand test bed for eventual Mars missions - but Zubrin argued that many of those activities could take place on Earth, in the Arctic or Antarctic.  "The goal should be Mars, and maybe for one of the early test flights we send people to the moon with some of the test hardware for Mars," he said.

In any case, Earth's polar regions are already being used as test beds in the scientific search for life in the deep freeze - whether on Mars, Europa or Enceladus. For example, Hoover is working on a U.S.-Russian expedition to Antarctica's subsurface lakes. A research group led by Stone Aerospace is also planning an Antarctic warmup for a mission to Europa.

Taken in this context, today's findings may seem to represent just one small step in the grand search for extraterrestrial life - but Plaut said that's the way giant leaps are done.

"This is more like science as it actually works, rather than science as people think it works," he said. "It's not one major discovery after another, but you build upon what people did before."

Update for 2:38 p.m. March 16: The Mars Express findings were a big topic of discussion at this week's Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, said the University of Arizona's William Boynton.

"People are excited about this. ... Five years ago, we didn't know there was any ice there, other than what was in the residual ice cap," he told me.

Then NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter came along and detected the wide-ranging deposits of frozen water in the south polar region. Boynton is the principal investigator for the instrument that made the detection, Odyssey's gamma-ray spectrometer. He said the latest results move the ball forward by determining just how deep the deposits go.

Now Boynton is finishing up work on an instrument for the Mars Phoenix lander that could take the scientific ball even closer to the goal. The Thermal and Evolved-Gas Analyzer, or TEGA, could analyze the composition of dirt and ice samples from the Martian far north.

Phoenix's robotic arm should be able to dig through the first few inches of the Martian surface to the ice beneath, he said. Then it could either scrape up or grind off some of that ice to feed into the TEGA.

"One of the instrument's objectives is to look for organic chemistry. ... There's at least the chance we're going to find organic chemistry there," Boynton said. If Phoenix finds organics at work, that would become a bigger focus for future Mars missions, he said.

Other researchers already have designed a nuclear-powered probe system, called Multi-MICE, that could melt its way through Martian ice and analyze the water during its descent. "You can go many kilometers through the ice," James Powell of Plus Ultra Technologies told me.

The ice channels could lay bare millions of years of climate history on Mars - and perhaps the record of ancient life as well. Last year, Plus Ultra completed a Phase 1 study of the proposed mission for the NASA Institute for Advanced Concepts - here's a PDF file of its presentation on Multi-MICE.

Powell told me that the melt probes could represent just a first step toward turning the ice deposits into a base for human operations on Mars. "Basically, we feel it's an ideal place for the first landings," he said.

Plus Ultra's grand plan would be to melt tunnels into the ice, creating cavities where the water and other Martian materials could be robotically processed into fuel, oxygen and other necessities. "You can stockpile hundreds of tons of supplies under the ice," Powell said. 

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Exploration is simply in our blood, this is not something we can stop. Since our wandering ancestor came out of Africa to new places to live, to the reasons why all of you and I have read this article in the hopes of getting to the next step. We will get to Mars, and then the next planet, and the next. This is just inevitable, and I do believe in GOD, I just don't believe all the words in the bible. The bible tells us that the earth is unique, but those are the words of someone that only knew what he saw outside. He had no knowledge of the beyond.

GOD I think would not stop us from exploring at all.

Personally I think the people that are say GOD does not want us to go to Mars are the people that are so scared that we will find something living or once living at Mars, then that will give doubt in the bibles accuracy.

GOD is Fact, the Bible is Fiction.  
I just got finished blogging about the war in Iraq, and now I'm posting a comment on the current theme of space exploration.  The stark contrast of those two actions underscores the importance of space exploration, it is one example of the finer side of man.  Our curiousity to know more about the world around us and to better ourselves are among our finest traits.  It is important, to everyone, and to our future.

I say let NASA go straight for Mars and open up the moon for private exploration by commercial interests.  After all, we already know almost all there is to know about the moon, and there's not much there.  In spite of all the recent advances in our understanding of the red planet, there are still more questions than there are answers.  Let's go where the answers are, and elevate our understanding of the universe around us as a people, in the process.
Necessity is the mother of all invention!  This is a statement based on cold hard fact.  It is a fact that unless some major changes happen, and faster then the septics (no not a misspell) want to admit, we are going to have to expand out in our own solar system, and then farther if we as a species hope to survive.  I desperately hope that there is life out there!  Because to think that in all of the galaxies we have discovered, all of the stars we see at night that we are the only life here is just a chilling thought.

Now to the subject of all these people spouting religion, what is the DEAL?!?!?  I mean i am a devout Roman Catholic, but to take any one religion and there text as the end all be all of anything is not only  ridiculous, it is absolutely absurd.  To think that any persons "GOD" of choice would be so singular....so small in his thinking to make only one planet in all we see capable of supporting life just seems a slap in the face to their existence.

Well i have ranted enough for one day and i truly do hope that in my lifetime i do get to see proof of extra terrestrial life!
I am surprised that folks are tentative about investigating Mars based on the fact that God didn't put us there.  I'd just like to say that as a Christian, I'd love to know more about God's creation so that I can know Him better.  That includes learning more about Mars.

As far as the Bible's accuracy with regards to life on other planets... I'm afraid it doesn't say anything one way or the other on that one.  I don't understand how any discovery on Mars could even suggest that the Bible is inaccurate.  Just because it says God created life on Earth doesn't in any way imply that He didn't create some form of life anywhere else (this might be a stretch...but hey, Heaven is mentioned with tons of creatures in it).  

I personally would be surprised if there was life on Mars, but such a discovery would certainly not be faith-shattering.  

So don't stress it folks... after all "The truth will set you free."  Therefore, we shouldn't be afraid to search for the truth.  
Use common sense, we are it, there is no life out there only here . God made man in His image. If evolution is true don't you think there would be factual evidence that we would have . Surely do you really think as a evoultionist thinks ,we are the top ,and no other life would be 100's of times more superior than ours?
As a SUNY freshman Anthro major back in '89 I remember telling my advisor that one day we would excavate for fossils on Mars! I am so excited to see whether or not we can find any evidence of life beyond our own little sphere. However, I think some of it may have already made it's way to earth...any of you ever hear of "water bears"? Check out this link; these little critters will blow your mind, and they are, apparently, everywhere. (And incredibly adaptive) ....... http://www.tardigrades.com/
The sad truth of the matter is that we (humans) could go to Mars in the next 1 - 5 years *if* we wanted to.

The issue holding us back is sitting right in front of you. If you have read most of the comments above, the arguments for and against range from religious opposition to need for social welfare, to I want to go, to send robots.

The fact of the matter is that America would not exist if those that established this country had listened to all this chatter, and been "politically correct" in the decision making process. They were hell bent (pardon the pun) on finding a place that they could do what they wanted.

For exploration of space to really occur it will take a unified LOUD voice from the people that "give" the government money, that raises above the volume of the din of those that claim that they or there issues are more important and deserving; ...or some really deep pocketed investors with a reason to go – such as a volcano spewing gold, diamonds, or some cure for something.
Everybody please relax. We are going to Mars and beyond - like it or not it's in our nature to explore - as for a religious aspect - we will carry our religions with us. There have been in our past aliens visiting us and would not doubt one bit if in some way we are a product of those visits. Either way, we are going out there and no, some of us will not live long enough to see this (we have to except that) but we don't have to be happy about it. I myself envy future generations that will actually count some alien species as friends and yes there will be other species that won't be considered friends. Enjoy what your small piece of space and time is allowing you to see and please don't let those who say we should stay here on our own planet upset you or put in your mind any doubt that sometime, someday, we will travel the stars. I never did by Albert's theory of mass being unable to move faster than the speed of light - and never will - where getting faster and faster every year - being in my 60's I won't be around much longer but I know that my dream will carry on with you younger folks, your creative imaginations will make it so.
What the mars rovers photos show is the infinite eye of god. Terraforming the surface would be as marring as in yellowstone or the grand canyon. Mars would be another great place for gambling casinos, I guess?  
Wow, a lot of great comments here!

Although I would love to go to Mars tomorrow, we need to test ourselves on the Moon first.

Reasons? We still have to deal with the loss of bone mass, muscle mass from not being around Earth gravity.

Not to mention prove to ourselves that we can actually survive in a biosphere offworld (which we have not done).

If we went to Mars, help would be years away and if death happened, that might set us back another century.

The moon however is great proving ground, not to mention within our budget, and as much as I write about Mars on my blog, it's the Moon first (with Mars by 2050 via private sector).
I believe that we should aim for Mars first. As we plan for that objective, we may well find the moon developed as a byproduct of this endeavor. There is an historical precedent. Columbus was aiming for India, but instead wound up in the Americas. It did not stop commerce to India, and Columbus was not trying to land in a country that he had never heard of, but he did. Who knows where we shall end up, in the meantime?
Jason D. of West Chester - maybe you're new to this blog, but Alan Boyle is a true Irishman, i.e., a gentleman and a scholar, and he would never toss anyone out for expressing an honest, whimsical, humourous, serious point-of-view.  Maybe scatological...

Now prepare yourselves, people, I'm going to quote The Bible.  When Christ was trying to explain to his folks that they should just think of him as a Good Shepherd, he also said "Other sheep I have, who are not of this fold." Who was he talking about?  Maybe ET?

Jason, I don't think any exploration will provide proof of any recent life.  Perhaps we'll find some evidence of proto-life bacteria-like cellular organisms but I doubt that too.  Only Earth had the early conditions to spawn life-like organisms, and the later conditions to allow the forms which could adapt to changing conditions to flourish and eventually become us. We no longer have those early conditions and therefore no "new" lifeforms springing up, only those which can evolve into new forms from old ones. All skeletal animals have a skull, spine, ribs, and four limbs, which all became necessary as our antecedents looked for something to eat, our prime directive for self-preservation.

David - Planets around other suns are common.  Habitable planets are not.  Planets which can initiate life, then change, like Earth did, to allow that life to grow, are very, very rare.  We wouldn't be having this discussion otherwise.
[...] We are going into space, And if we find life we are surely going to shatter your ridiculous man-made religious nonsense.

God is fiction, Religion is insanity.
MARSIS is a marvellous instrument. I am not sure a robotic lander could get enough information from the frozen depths though. If you could physically drill into and retrieve drill cores from depth like they do in the arctic and antarctic to study past climate and atmosphere, I am sure the martian ice holds many secrets about it's distant past atmosphere and climate. Looking for direct evidence of life in the ice and water is certainly easier but is an expensive crap shoot just the same.
Columbus went East to discover the New World. And we now have America. Incas became Christians.

Magellan went further East looking for spice and he discovered the Philippines. And proved that earth is not flat. The natives became Christians.

Armstrong took a small step on the moon for a giant leap of mankind. There's nobody there.

This robot looking for life in Mars found ice. This robot does not carry a bible.

So keep Christ in your homes, in your families, and in your communities.

Do not distort science with your personal interpretation of the Bible. It does not glorify God.
Jason D. - sorry, forgot to tell you that they have got better pictures now of that Martian 'face' that is so obviously a face in early pictures.  Sorry, but in those  closeups it becomes more and more apparent that it is only geological features, including a central rise (nose), a ridge (eyes and brows), and a cascade of rocks (mouth and chin).  The closeup looks nothing like a face at all.

Mark Van L. - It was radar which showed the ice at the Martian South Pole, and measured its depth at over two miles.  Pure Ice all the way to the ground.  The only anomaly they found there was that the whole icefield rested in a depression rather smoothly.  Earth's diameter at the poles is less than the diameter at the equator, and we do have liquid water under the Antarctic icecap holding heat from the Earth's interior.  Mars is too cold for a similar scenario to operate there, and Mars does not have a strong metal core (like Earth) to draw heat from.  More radar shoots will be performed by the satellite at the North Martian Pole when it is in range. Maybe that will give  us more details of the overall climate-driving forces that work there.
Mars is not an option. It is intuitive that it holds the answers to our own existence and the prevention of our extinction. It is far ahead of us in it's evolution. Mars has seen what we must know.
In case humans cause the death of planet Earth, then we will have to start making an underground world NOW on Mars that is if it is stable enough. We will also have to start building another Noah's ark, the spacecraft version. But then moon is nearer. Which is more livable ? Mars ? Europa ? Some other moons with some oxygen on it ? It is a mind blowing matter to imagine a catastrophe big enough to kill the whole human race, to imagine speed that is fast enough for everyone to get into Noah's Ark the spacecraft ( who get to go? ) and to imagine getting safely to whichever planet or moon that might be safe enough to ensure the survival of the human race. Somebody here made a very good point. Actually the whole universe and all that in it made up the same stuff. What we have on planet Earth will be the same on the other planets. Probably the chemistry changes as chemical react with another chemical to produce some other chemical. There was only one big Bang if you don't believe in God. There was only one spiritual creation if you believe in God. This means that whatever is here and out there comes from only one source. In many sci fi stories, there is one aspect film makers will include and that is spirituality. They don't call it spirituality. They call it by other names. It is still something that is spiritual. So you cannot dismiss spirituality all together. Personally I don't mind paying these planets and moons a visit. But staying there ? Well unless I have no other choice.
If we can settle our petty differences on this miserable rock...why not go to another miserable rock? Hmmm...Maybe we can start greed, hate and wars on other worlds...yah...that's the answer. We're not ready to go next door for coffee let alone another planet. Just like humans to abandon one project (earth) and take on another without proper house keeping. Are we that arrogant? That being said, I really do envy future generations (once this world is in order) because they will see and be part of human evolution and our human journey to the stars. In the future it will be an amazing time to be alive, as our ancestors believed for us.
Taken from www.extremescience.com -

The closest Mars opposition in thousands of years happened on August 27, 2003, when the planets passed within 56 million km (35 million miles) of each other. Really "close" oppositions generally happen once every 15 or 17 years. The next especially close Mars opposition will be in July of 2018. If you missed the 2003 opposition, you won't have to wait thousands of years for an even better view. Mars will have an opposition even closer than the 2003 event on August 28, 2287!

That would be a good time for a trip to Mars, right? Early adapters/adopters spend a great deal of time and an awful lot of money getting all excited and adopting on hype and competition. But small incremental changes that lead to large new experiences and discoveries possess strong foundations (solid history) that do not get broken. Just be patient. There's no need to rush. If we need to get off of spaceship Earth in order to survive we will. If we're able to heal the Earth and relax, and pace ourselves towards Mars, that would be well advised. Mars holds nothing new that the Earth cannot already or hasn't already told us.

Most families, brothers and sisters, live together for years and often teach each other nothing until later in life if ever. Aren't these other planets the brothers and sisters of the Earth? Haven't they all grown up together? When was the last time you learned anything from your biological sibling? Maybe you just turn to them when you need something too; money, a place to stay - but never for wisdom. And why not? If we are turning to Mars for wisdom I believe that outcome will be brilliant. If we turn to Mars out of desperation like the drunkin brother in jail that needs to be bailed out - calling a sibling late at night when there is no where left to turn, then we are lost...

John Lennon lyrics -

How can we go forward when we don't know which way we're facing?
How can we go forward when we don't know which way to turn?
How can we go forward into something we're not sure of?
Oh no, oh no
I appreciate the visual descriptions used to convey what I see as extremely difficult concepts to imagine. New ways of seeing things takes me a lot of energy, concentration and an open mind. Sometimes it overwhelms me to think about this Universe, it's enormity, complexity and possibility of revealing why we are here in the first place. Let's not be so quick to judge.
Hey, if God doesn't want us on Mars, God can let us know. Then God can expect we'll do and do it anyway, free will being what it is. I suppose one could argue that we don't stop loving children because they were born to push boundaries. But I'm no philosopher, I just want to believe mankind will never stop striving for meaningful things that are greater than themselves, things they do for the sake of mankind, be that wiping out poverty here, or finding life on another planet. In the tangle of human sentiment, it's likely that the courage and determination to do the latter is directly related to the guts it will take to resolve the former anyway.

I doubt people will argue with either pursuit. (I could be wrong.)

As for Mars, irrelevant as personal opinion is in the larger scheme of things, I hope someone does discover life. Apart from its representing a tremendous victory over the hard vacuum (go, underdog life!) it could potentially have the impact of broadening and opening minds here on earth.

There are too many closed minds here on earth. Maybe a scrap or two of DNA from another world might remind us how much we have to learn. Which, in turn, reminds me exactly how idealistic I am. Still, where there's life, there's hope, no?

Elizabeth, I sure see your point regarding Mars as a catalyst for settling the Moon. One thing of note, though, is that the record of America's 'discovery' looks vastly different from the other side. There's no one to disturb on Mars. But we should still be mindful of our past (ongoing) mistakes. Thanks!
You quote:

"...Those ice layers go down as far as 2.3 miles (3.7 kilometers) beneath the surface - and are topped by a mixture of ice and dust that may be only a yard (meter) or so thick."

Outside of Hell's Canyon (North America's deepest river gorge), which was carved by and still cradles the great Snake River on the Idaho-Oregon border ( 8,000+ feet below snowcapped He Devil Peak of Idaho's Seven Devils Mountains, 'n deeper than the Grand Canyon), the deepest canyon we've yet come across in the solar system is Valles Marineris on Mars (it's approx. 3,000 miles long [it would stretch from New York to L.A. and then some]) and is some 5 MILES deep (8 kilometers).

That's way deeper than the distances reported in your blog and naturally leads me to wonder if is water FLOWING down at the bottom of Valles Marineris? If so, might there be some sort of active ecosystem down there?

And as far as you know, especially with the re-confirmation of polar water on the scale observed, does NASA have any plans to build/send a probe of some special sorts down thataways?

Returning to an earlier theme of mine, why all the (as I see it) macho macho about EITHER going to the Moon OR Mars? As long as the assumptions about interplanetary travel within the solar system are presumed on leaving from a planet-bound perspective we're going to get the same tired answers (as well as super long horizons and totally unpredictable budgets).

Why not build on what we know, have done, are doing, and could do a whole lot better - which is combining robotic explorers and orbital habitats? Partition the problem: in terms of realizing the orbital habitat get constructioneeers to build extensible habitat building habitats in Earth orbit (i.e. not an ISS design). Then stuff and staff them up, add a few braces of tele-operated robot explorers and propulsion units, and send them off -  as they come off the construction line - to the Moon, Mars, Enceladus (well, eventually), and wherever.

When they arrive in Moon and Mars orbit the folks (us) live in orbit and tele-operate the robots (flying, crawling, and other) down on the surface. No more of that multi-minute dance jig waiting for the light-speed signal to get to Earth, be properly digested and evaluated, and then returned. Send the brains with the equipment but send only the equipment down the gravity well until the case, place, et al are good enough for a Green-To-Go (on MUCH better data and intelligence) for the two-legged folks.

Furthermore, if the habitat building habitats keep building habitats in Earth and/or Lunar orbit, they can keep sending habitat modules (and people and supplies) to the habtats in orbit around Mars and the Moon. It'd be great as well as useful for Mars and Moon landing astronauts to know that 911 call and rescue team was a few klicks above (and with accumulating resources) rather than a "Hail Mary" (did we bring, think of, be ready for anything impossible approach).

If we go why don't we go in a way that's budget sustainable, life survivable, and takes us there in numbers (diversity is a powerful survival move). Can't we combine the macho and initially costs-the-world "we gotta land" approach with the forerunning dense intelligence of orbital communities and robot explorers (of all kinds)?

Tell me it can't be so! Is NASA timid? Lacking creativity? Closed off to new ideas? Heck, even funding such efforts begs for new funding ideas (outside of the public tax purse) and I myself standing right here and now can think of a good few without raising a sweat. Let's get moving! Together!
Mars IS the other basket. Mankind need to put some of it's eggs there.
I think that if we find microbial life in the polar regions of Mars religion would have to change many of its teachings and doctrines to adapt to today's discovery. Life would be not only earth's gift but maybe is a gift to other places we never thought of.

My other question to this is wow would we ever live on Mars; ok we found water in Mars great, we found life in Mars great but we still have to wonder how to maintained a stable gravity strong enough so that water in liquid form doesn't escape into space.

Another question ... isn't Mars' internal core frozen. How are we ever going to start up its internal core so it has a magnetic field to help shield it from the Sun's deadly radiation?

What about a moon; Mars currently has 2 satellites or moons Phobos and Deimos. but not enough to help stable Mars own spin. All this is just in case we might just want to terraforming the planet.

I think that finding life out there gives proof enough that we might not be alone.

I believe we should keep healing our planet instead of killing it, I believe we should still keep traveling to other regions of space.
I read all this talk about God, but didn't "God" give people free will and the power to explore? Therefore any science or new findings should be explored and persued. One can't honestly think that out of the BILLIONS of solar systems that this is the ONLY planet to have life on it or the ONLY one capable of life surviving... that's just naive and for people who are too afraid to think "out-side the box." Why not put humans to the ultimate test of adaptation? We've adapted to climates all over Earth, why not progress and adapt to other places?... if Mars, then let it be. It's not like its hurting or "Offending God" and if you don't care to live on Mars and "make God happy"... then stay here where overtime the resources will fail along with all the other simple minded people. Progress and search for a better good and have an open mind to the possiblilties out there! :)
To John Saulsbury: Yes, we do need better propulsion. But if not chemical, it will be nuclear in one form or another (nuclear thermal, nuclear electric, possibly fusion, nuclear pulse, etc.), and you know what hue and cry happpens whenever someone brings up that particular 'N' word. If there were signifigant demonstrations regarding the well-shielded RTG fuel for Cassini and other deep space probes, what happens when we want to launch high-performance reactors?

To the 'why should humans go live there (Mars or elsewhere)' debate: Human history, arguably, has been *nothing but* migration. We appear to have originated in East Central Africa, yet look at the range and diversity of human habitation today. Why should it stop now? (And not all of it is from having mesed up some previous place...some humans *still* live in East Central Africa, and in the future, many will *still* live on Earth. Indeed, many of *us* don't live in the place we were born. I don't.) The reasons to move or migrate are many. So are the places to which one might go.

To the Moonbase vs. Mars and Robot vs. human exploration: This is not mutually exclusive, you know. What we really need nore than anything else, as an enabler to *any* big space plans, is cheaper, regular access to Low Earth Orbit. Do that, and (among otgher things) you can assemble, test and send out any deep space system you want, much more readily, cheaply, often, than you can today.

Unfortunately, NASA wants to go back to ballistic capsules, launched on expendable rockets again, rather than doing (and encouraging) real RLV development. Those (including myself) who fear etting too old before having a chance to see and possibly participate in biger efforts, need to do what they can to get around that barrier first.

As has often been quoted from Robert Heinlein, once you reach Earth orbit, you're halfway to anywhere...

As for what God may or may not want, if he has a problem, I suspect He'll let us know. I tend to agree with Shocker's "I gave you this solar system to work with, and you're doing virtually nothing." view.
If someone was dying of a terminal disease but still had a few years to live then why not allow that person to make an immediate one way trip to Mars. I certainly would volunteer to take th long journey and die there in the end. The information gathered on such a trip would be invaluable. For instance the long journey itself and the effects on th ehuman mind and body. Once there and with the proper protection from Mars Radiation, I could do experiments a robot can not. I'd go in a heartbeat if I knew I was terminally ill and never coming back. To be the first human to land on Mars then die there would be fantastic.
There is an easy solution to solving the radiation issue related to mars bound spacecraft that was mentioned earlier. They are working on a system that uses a circular maglev race track to spin a projectile up to escape velocity on the ground then launching it via a ramp. Very little could survive the g-forces of such a system - not even unhardened electronic devices. My idea would be to use this system to launch hundreds of solid metal rods, then use those same rods to form the radiation shield of the ship in question.

The single biggest impediment to space travel at this time is simply that most space organizations are designed primarily to provide governement funds to political districts. They are simply a form of welfare. Being efficent, effective, conducting good science, etc. are last on the list for these organizations. If you doubt me, do a very simple analysis of how much money has gone to NASA since the moon missions and look what you got for you dollars spent. Or you could just ask why the shuttle was not abandoned immediately after they realized it was a failure in its primary mission in the 1970's.

Sad really.
Who the hell cares! Another waste of money!
Cut the God baloney will ya!! If it was up to those wackjobs, there would be no space program!!

If we got the go to colonize Mars, I'd be one of many to instanly raise my hand to go. Bring the sun tan lotion. :)

Sure, Mars is barren, same with Antartica. The only real differences of the two is one is red with iron, ones white with ice. One has gravity, other has less gravity.

I am in a generation where it could be possible to go to Mars with manned exploration. I love science, and who honestly would leave this planet to explore in the vastness of space if capable. Religion is nice for the believers, but science drives us. We are human, it is in our blood. Stop holding us back and let us explore, we are going to go if you like it or not!

Sending a single, terminal person to Mars (or almost anywhere else in space) is a *very* problematical issue. It's likely to take many months to arrive. Will they last that long?

What of the medication to keep them as comfortable and function as possible?

What of unexpected issues related to their health? (There will obviously be no doctor or nurse on a one-way mission, and medical telerobotics aren't practical with increasing speed of light delays. It's been done on Earth, with slight, but noticable lags when the comunications is through one or more geostationary satellites.)

Will they be able to maintain a muscle and bone maintaining exercise schedule enroute? Relatedly, will they still be able to carry out signifigant research on arrival? (In the case of Mars, most of it is likely to involve geological field work, with all the walking and climbing that implies.)

And in the end, how will his body be secured to minimize comtaminationg the area, biologically? No one will be there to bring back, or otherwise seal off his remains from the environment...

Understand, spending your last days somewhere outside the atmosphere isn't a bad idea, but making it part of exploration, is. That'll have to wait until commercial space flight is a common activity.
Okay, so it will be nice when we get all of us up on mars, and then the aliens that lived there once want their planet back. There's a war of the worlds for ya.
On the God thing, I would say that I believe in the guy =) but I mean people are right, he gave us the will to explore and be interested in science and I'm sure if he doesn't like something we're doing he'd stop us, so no wories guys. Just go as far as he'll let us.
Well, I hope we shall have soon inhabited stations on  Mars and vegetations and maybe a big swimming pool,  why not ?
    It is truly amazing, mans ability to discovere such things. But the cowardness of our space program has grown with the mass paranoia that surrounds this nation today. It seems that we have forgotten why we call people heroes. The risk they take and the sacrifices they make. I am a firm believer that we still have many heroes in this nation so let them come forward and let them be tests.

     Stop delaying the inevitable. Let us have our fill of the exploration today. I know we have the technology and so does the rest of the worl. Just give them the fundings and the executive order and BAM we're on our way to Mars in the next few years. I mean cmon look how fast we got to Baghdad.
As Ray Bradbury speculated in the Martian Chronicles, we may very well be the Martians. Not because we became the Martians after destroying our own planet, but we may have been the Martians all along. Martian micro-organisms may have seeded Earth's oceans via meterorites from Mars. The microscopic structures found in the so-called "Mars rock" bear an uncanny resemblance to known microfossils found on Earth. There is definitely enough liquid water on Mars to support life. However, there are several questions that need to be answered regarding life on Mars. First, did life EVER exist on Mars? If so, then life may still exist on Mars. Equally likely, Martian life forms survived far below the surface, where dust and rock shield their sensitive membranes from harmful UV and cosmic radiation. A second question is, did life develop, gain a weak foothold on Mars, then become extinct? If so, then life forms on Earth may be the direct successors to early Martian life. In addition, there probably will be a fossil record on Mars, even if they are microfossils. A third question remains: Is Mars simply a barren planet that could have supported life but never actually did? Until recently, most exobiologists were probably in this third category. But I think the more we know about Mars the more complex the planet's systems appear to be, perhaps increasing the likelihood of life developing. If life does exist on Mars, it would have to be very primitive, such as viruses, bacteria or at best single-celled plant or animal organisms. I can't see anything more complex than that surviving in such a harsh environment. So, I guess I would be not at all surprised if there was life on Mars, and I would be equally unsurprised if life did not exist there. Anyway, I think the moon is a good place to develop some of the basic technology, such as a second-generation landing craft and more durable space suits, etc. before we attempt to colonize Mars. But we must colonize Mars as a second step toward colonizing inhabitable planets orbiting other stars. If we do not learn how to do this, the human race will not survive.
How can humans heat up Mars to a livable temperature that supports plant and human life even if we can establish a breathable atmosphere on the planet? A 50% greater distance from the sun makes heating Mars nearly impossible, don't you think, unless we maintain a thick blanket of CO2 over the planet? That would mean creating a deep atmosphere out of mostly carbon dioxide to hold the heat in but with enough oxygen to support humans. Sounds difficult.
Lets send some cryogenic bacteria there....wait a few hundred thousand years for a new population to exist ;)Seriously, though, a few earth bugs roaming around, changing with the climate...would be interesting to see what results.
I love all the space exploration and find it quite interesting. I want to continue to see things in the news about space exploration. I just don't beleive that there is life on other planets. I used to think to myself, "why would God create all of the other planets and systems if He didn't create life on other planets?" After I thought on that awhile it became very apparent to me that God created those other planets and systems to show how almighty He is. He didn't HAVE to create them. He just did to show us the beauty and majesty that comes from a personal relationship with Him. The skies were His canvas and He painted us a most-beautiful picture for us to enjoy as we live our lives here on the Earth. Explore away, but remember to give God the glory and respect He deserves for creating such an AWESOME thing for us to admire.
Just a thought...could it just be...that we at one time came from Mars? ....maybe killing *our* planet there and finding refuge on this one *our * earth?billions of years ago?...
Meko.....You just don't get it do you. Another brainwashed christian. It's called free will. YOu could make the same analogy that if God wanted us to fly then we would have been given wings! God is an alien, they are our creators, and in the next 50 years modern religion will be turned on it's head. We have only begun to touch the tip of what we will see in the next 50 years. It all starts with Mars. They have all of the anwsers to the toughest questions, most people will not like the anwsers.
There is another option for colonizing other planets that most people have overlooked. Why try to do something as expensive and draining as changing an entire planet when within the next century we will be able to construct or alter a life form that is tailor made for these environments? If a key doesn't fit in a lock you don't make a new lock from scratch, you just find and use the proper key.
To the first post. How do you know God didnt put us there in the first place and we then moved here?
Look people.....we could play the "what if" game concerning "god" all day long. Here's the point. There are those of us that believe going to mars (in person) and exploring is a great idea and would be an even greater adventure. The existence of that amount of water (frozen, slushy, or liquid) is an amazing find and holds the potential for so many possibilities. I agree that NASA needs to get off their behind and kick their plans into gear. There is NO REASON it should take 30 years to get a manned mission to mars! For those of you that are just on here to argue and say "We shouldn't go!" and "If god had wanted..." just let this idea roll off your back and move on about you business. The non-believers of the world don't hang out in front of your church on sunday and say "If god had wanted us to go to church, he would have made one for us." so leave the explorers of the universe to their own devices. To the scientists that made this discovery.... you guys are the ones that give dreams to future generations. I'm only in my 20's and I would absolutely love to flip on the T.V. one day and watch a news report about the first manned mission to mars.
meko, it's like willy wonka said:  "if god had intended us to walk, he wouldn't have invented roller skates."  
Its a shame it's out of print (even more so that so few people have read it) but the book "The High Road" by Ben Bova is all about the future of earth being tied to space exploration. He even accurately predicted the loss of the first space shuttle before it happened. But (assuming we do not blow ourselves to hell with wars in the upcoming years) if mankind is to progress, this planet cannot long support us.  We need a vision like 'The High Road' to carry us forward. "A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?" Per aspera ad astra.
Mars having water means we only need fuel for a one way trip. Once we are there, on Mars, water will fuel our way back. Water is a fuel. The Germans proved this in WWII. The V2 Rocket and ME163 Rocket Fighter are excellent examples of waters use as a fuel. We need this technology to be admitted to and used in the immediate future. My own experiments and inventions prove water is easy to harness as a powerful fuel. It's clean burning too.
How, exactly, do scientists believe that O2 and H20 develop on certain planets?  Besides the fact that O2 is an explosive gas, the concentration gradients necessary for life seem to fall into constrained parameters.  In the past, this has been described by theoretical biologists such as Stuart Kauffman as being a relatively rare event, cosmologically.

If we now see two examples of water formation on planets within our own solar system, this would seem to up the ante for finding life (even sentient life) elsewhere. N'est pas?

Since the red planet is red, does that also suggest that there might be enough metallic content of elements such as iron to possibly lead to the development of hemoglobin and/or chlorophyl?

Fetch! Rover!  Bravo!  Curiosity!


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