ABOUT COSMIC LOG

Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

Check out Boyle's biography or send a message to Cosmic Log via cosmiclog@msnbc.com.



Lost cities seen from space

Posted: Friday, January 05, 2007 8:05 PM by Alan Boyle

Archaeologists and NASA experts are using satellite images to find jungle-covered ruins that had been hidden almost literally right under their noses. The 21st-century technology, highlighted in the latest installment of PBS’ “Nova ScienceNow,” led to the discovery of ancient Maya settlements in Guatemala.

But there are still some mysteries left to solve: “We know a lot more about finding the sites than we do about why we’re finding the sites,” University of New Hampshire archaeologist Bill Saturno told me today.

However it works, the technique has the potential to transform the way archaeology is done, not only in Guatemala, but in Brazil, Bolivia, Cambodia "or anywhere where the forest has traditionally obscured ruins from view," he said.

During the "Nova ScienceNow" segment, Saturno declares that seeing ruins from space "changes the entire way that we approach archaeology in a tropical environment."

The tale had its beginnings in archaeology done the old-fashioned way: by stumbling upon an unexpected find. Back in 2001, Saturno was surveying a potential dig in a remote, uninhabited patch of Guatemalan rain forest, and took refuge from the hot sun in a dark, cavelike chamber. When he turned his flashlight toward the walls, he spotted marvelous murals telling the Maya story of creation.

The paintings at San Bartolo have been called the "Sistine Chapel of the Maya," and the site has also yielded the earliest examples of Mayan writing. It turns out that San Bartolo was a thriving center of Maya culture for centuries - but over the past millennium, many of the signs of habitation have faded into the jungle landscape.

That's where NASA comes into the picture: In 2003, the space agency began providing Saturno's team with satellite imagery, and Saturno bought into the idea that remote sensing from space could reveal ruins that could not be seen at ground level.

The basic concept isn't new, Saturno admitted. "Crop marks have been used in Europe for decades to identify Roman villas, moats, things like that," he told me. "It's a matter of there being slight changes in the soil over those ruins that, in a wheat field, leaves certain marks. Wheat over [the buried ruins of] a wall matures faster than the wheat next to the wall."

In those cases, the differences in the vegetation are clear enough to be seen by the naked eye from the air. "But the tropical forest is a very different environment," Saturno said.


GeoEye / Space Imaging
Maya settlement sites show up as yellowish
splotches in this false-color infrared image
of Guatemalan rain forest, sent from orbit
by the Ikonos satellite.

The color differences are invisible to the naked eye. You have to identify far more subtle changes in the reflectivity of infrared wavelengths, as seen in multispectral satellite imagery. That's just what NASA archaeologist Tom Sever and scientist Dan Irwin were able to help Saturno do, using data from the Ikonos satellite. The trees that grew up over buried ruins showed up as yellowish splotches amid the surrounding shades of red and blue.

Saturno recalled how amazed he was the first time he used the imagery as a guide and walked right up onto a Maya temple: "We'd been in the forest every day for five years and walked by it every day, but we had no idea it was there until we saw it from space," he said.

"As far as being able to use remote sensing in this way in a tropical environment, that's completely unexpected."

Saturno said researchers are still trying to figure out exactly what accounts for the different colors in the infrared. The vegetation may be a slightly different color because of differences in the soil's water retention, as was the case with the European ruins. But that's not the only possibility.

"It could also be a micro-environment created by the decay of those ruins," Saturno said. "The chemicals of that may be actually taken up into the leaves themselves - from the decaying lime plaster, the calcium carbonate there."

Right now, it takes a human's trained eyes to identify the signature of buried Maya sites in the satellite imagery - but a computer could conceivably take on the job if the data set can be tweaked just right, Saturno said.

"All of a sudden, for the first time, we're able to look at the big picture, and understand the extent to which the Maya expanded these cities," Saturno says during the PBS program. "If you think about how many sites are out there ... and we can see how many there are from these satellite images ... how many San Bartolos are out there, waiting to be discovered?"

"Nova ScienceNow," hosted by the Hayden Planetarium's Neil deGrasse Tyson, delves into other subjects as well:

  • Research into factors that may slow the aging process, including animal studies involving sirtuin genes, caloric restriction and resveratrol, a substance found in red wine.
  • The grass-roots effort to build the elements of a space elevator - with a particular focus on last October's Space Elevator Games.
  • The work of Princeton molecular biologist Bonnie Bassler, who has discovered ways in which bacteria use chemical pathways to "talk" to each other - even across species lines.

The show is due for its first airing on Tuesday - but if you miss it, don't fret. Beginning Wednesday, all the segments will be available over the Web.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

I think NASA probably has already found more than what they are revealing. Perhaps they keep it secret is because of thieves, It also wouldn't surprise me if they keep it secret because we (cro-magnon humans) are much older than scientists want to admit. Another could be that it might involve facts that aliens are our ancestors. Yes, I believe in life in other worlds but I believe in God, too,
Mark from GeoEye: Any work being done to map the sunken cities around India?
Whats with the  F  E  A  R  , that grips our culture?

Hey, if you're scared, say your scared, then keep both your lips firmly closed.

God, whichever name you use to speak to God, wants to impart wisdom and knowledge on us because we are stupifying our children and the rest of the world. How can discovering the ruins of an ancient civilization, which we've found others, be evil or against God? Are we gonna discover some magic spell that erradicated their entire culture at the conclusion of the words spoken?     Maybe.

Nobody knows the limits of knowledge. If we did, for instance, discover everything that once remained hidden from us, how it works, and even who put it there. Are we to give up living because we have all the answers? Uh....No. After those possessing the knowledge impart it on to others, is that when we give up? Uh....No. What then would we do? Well, I'm for contributing to the quality of life for everyone, we could live each day to its fullest, smell the flowers, really enjoy others company and (this might please the UFO-ers) be invited to the space faring races.

Sorry, my point is, the division of the scientific community and the religious community is ridiculous. Drawing a line in the sand, only makes the distance greater, NOBODY KNOWS $#!T. The Bible "IS" a work of literature presided over by men, but the content, beyond the story, (insert long whistle) that is some amazing stuff.

I believe that the government taking god out of our lives is the worst thing to happen to this country. Every country in the world has some religious adhesive that binds all of its inhabitants, it provides the social aspect that we as humans desire most. Once, not long ago if you didn't go to church or temple, something was wrong with you, now the opposite is true. In this country, in this day in age, can you not understand how these victimizers feel isolated with no god, no friends, ridicule and the drive to belong so badly that they could shut off their feelings to commit acts of horror so great that you wonder what could have been going through there mind. Well, psychoanalyze this, NONE...I repeat...NONE of us are alone, but our self serving idealized individualizing society has left so many out in the cold, that western culture shouldn't even be called society. (isn't the word rooted in "social")
I agree wholeheartedly with the general comments that satelite imagery is a great vehicle for finding lost sites, not only in Central and South America, but under the sands of Egypt as well. There is a lot of controversy surrounding just who 'God, or the 'Gods' were. Modern day thinking, when applied to verses of the Bible...which were written down by technilogically ignorant scribes who only wrote what they saw, leads us to believe that The Egyptians possesed flying vehicles, decribed as firey chariots, since the chariot was only 'propelled vehicle' known to the scribes. The Mayans were doubtlessly very advanced, as were the Egyptians, compared to the bronze aged judeans who served tham as slaves.. Their technology was not of this world, and they made sure that they took it with them when they left..but maybe, just maybe, they left something behind. Lets hope we can find it...and those closed minded archeologists wont stay silent about it ..and thereby put in question all that we think we know about The ancient Egyptians.
To J. E. White Chickasha, Oklahoma
Greeting!
I am very much with you Dear J. E. White Chickasha, of OklahomaI. I do belive in God and know that HE listens to those who pray to Him and seek Him earnestly. If you want we can be friends. I am Anurag my age is 45 and I recpect those who love God. If you wish you may contact me – theomega47 <at> rediffmail.com
May God bless you
With prayers and regards
Anurag Joab
The name of GOD has killed more people than the atomic bomb..how can anyone support religion? Religion should be a private thing... practiced at home and without monetary contributiion. Goodness is NOT FOR SALE BUT ACQUIRED!
Get a life Anurag...no God would inflct such pain on so many...a devil might but not a God
There is a secret message in the ruins of these cities. I have seen the satellite view of these networks of cities and they were not only cities but a message to the cosmos. Look Closer. Meegwetch
Similar Remote Sensing has been used all across the United States to locate and destroy the plantations of illegal drugs. It is amazing how detailed and accurate the satelite photographs can interprete the slightest details of the pigments of vegitation. I have been on helicopter rides were these satelite photos have been used to locate such areas.
I've read an interesting article on http://www.bosnian-pyramid.net about the corners of the pyramid. It would be an easy way to proof quickly the existence, but they dig near the corners but not the corners. Then they've dug something on the top of it, but not the top!? I've seen some pictures on that really let me think again about this whole thing. Every day I believe less in this mystery.
THIS IMAGING IS A GREAT SCIENTIFIC TOOL. WHAT HAS BEEN FOUND,TO DATE AND REVEALED IS A MIRACLE. IF A SPECIFIC EVENT, OR OBJECT WAS DESIRED TO BE FOUND,IT WOULD PROBABLY BE FOUND IF IT DID OCCUR OR EXISTED. GOD GAVE US THESE TALENTS SO THAT WE WOULD USE THEM TO BENEFIT ALL MANKIND. LET'S DEVELOP THESE TALENTS FOR ALL PEOPLE TO BENEFIT.
to Anne Lewis Indianapolis,  The name of god has killed no one,but people sure have, using religion to get thier greedy hands on another persons stomping grounds. It is quite obvious anyone that believes in any thing or anyone speaks about it, or they will never solidify what they think they believe and it will be just a passing thought.
i like use ur images of iran but usa blocked iran whats my sin?????????
I have been developing a theory on the evolution of thinking, especially social thinking and it really amazes me that scientist do not take this into consideration when examining ancient cultures and how these primitive ways of thinking influenced the development of their civilizations. Ex. Its an established fact that early civilizations viewed women as second class citizens to say it kindly. My research has lead me to the question: How would this influence the formations of writing, beliefs, and heirarchy in a society. Well, its pretty clear that if one believes that women are second class, that they will not make them the ruler of their lands and people. This would also translate to what they write in the form that most heros, gods and important figures would male and be in charge. Ask yourself, does the bible reflect any of these primitive stereotypical thinking? So much blood has been shed in name of religions and will always be so because they think that they are alway right. No room for compromise and growth. Those ways of thinking are like a chimps decisions compared to mans decision making. We are still evolving in our thinking. Letting go of old antiquated fears of the dark. the growing pains are apparent but religions will eventually lose out to more evolved ways of moral spiritualism and thinking.
It seems to me that such discoveries have been reported over the years using side scan and ground penetrating radar.  I suppose the breathless reporting approach in this piece is necessary for some.  Perhaps there is an ever evolving refinement of technique which may add to new discoveries.  I would expect that to be included in such reportage.

What's all the worry about the god of the Christians? One day they're going to dig up Quetzalcoatl and Huitzilopochtli and then see what happens. MUHAHAHA!
Paul van Gent is sure to stir up the animal rights activists (due to Quetzalcoatl's penchant for animal sacrifices)- we've heard from the religious zealots, so let's further dilute what began as a discussion of a marvelous application of technology with more peripheral noise.
Well, I thought the article was pretty cool, but the debate about God and religion was actually slightly more interesting to me. I think I agree with both sides, minus the one person who gets upset at others for believing in God. Thats their choice. Perhaps it upsets religious people to know you don't believe? (It doesn't offend me, but it could. Just think about it.) Anyway, I just so happen to believe in God and that he will protect me and all the good stuff, but I do also happen to take into account science. Perhaps these incredible works in nature (ie: the complexity of DNA, how the body works, the vastness of space, the details that account for the inner workings of a star) are something God (or a God?) has done? I don't think things so complicated could be so random. I believe in theories such as the Big Bang, and even Evolution (albeit I have a modified theory that I like :) ). And I also believe God wants us to learn. Why wouldn't he? And there will never be a time when we have discovered everything. And that right there is pretty cool.
These findings in Guatemala/Central America are wonderful.  The so called "Cradle of Civilization" in Egypt can no longer be called that when my ancestors exsisted here with their own technology and spiritual beliefs.  They were civilized and had their own forms of government and education.  As this discovery progresses, I think that the "God concept" should not even enter the discussion.  We were not heathens, my ancestors just had their own thing going.  They were doing rather well until they were "Discovered" by the Spanish explorers.  
There is no science without God.  The more we learn through science, the closer we come to science proving that God exists and created it all.  Many believe they are seperate realms but they are not and science will eventually prove just that.
If E. Cayce was a hoax why did they find the Bimini road off Bimini and in the year he said they would.
IT IS BETTER TO BELIEVE. DIE, AND FIND OUT THIER IS ONE THAN DIE AND FIND OUT THERE ISNT ONE.
There is no god without science!
What, you christers all must think that your god is some sort of wizard or somthing that it just waved its arms and voila!!! exsistance....
"IF" there is a god who was responsible for the exsistance of all, than this god was merely a scientist with access to technology light years beyond our current understanding.
As for the written Dogma that all you slaves and servants wish to follow, it is nothing more than childrens stories for the insecure and the frightened.
The disproof of an all powerful entity thru logic.
Little boy: Can you do anything?
God: Yes I can.
Little Boy: Can you make a rock so heavy that you can't lift it.
God: why yes of course.
Little boy: then by your own admission you cannot lift that rock and therefore cannot do everything.
God disappears in puff of logic.
I feel sure that this technology has already discovered the existence of Atlantis and all of the other pyramids around the world, which included the Pyramids of Montauk on Long Island.
it takes more faith to believe in what is written than what is possible
hyper link dogma is what i hear. i bet that most of you make 10 dollars a hour or less. and are at work reading this and still dont belive in god. belive in somthing bigger than your self.
"Fools mock but they shall mourn..."
I believe that God and science don't have to be opposites.  I believe there is a God, and the discoveries we make, we are supposed to make.  He enables us through knowledge.  I am not arrogant enough to think that this Earth is the only place where life, intelligent or more like us, abides.  In a universe as large as this one is supposed to be, there MUST be someone/thing else out there.  I am also not naive enough to believe in the "young earth" theory, subscribed to by fundamentalist/creationists.  Who, by the way, are more than entitled to their own opinions, and do not deserve to be ridiculed by ignorants who are intolerant of others.  The science that God gave us shows us that the earth is millions of years old.

But I digress.  I just don't know why the "scientists" think the "religious" are wrong and vice versa.  Why can't we have both?  There is no real reason one has to cancel out the other.

And to the "gentleman" who implied that Christians or other kinds of believers "make 10 dollars an hour or less", I make 35 dollars an hour as a respiratory therapist, which is a very scientificly (medicine) based job.  And, gasp! -  I read the Bible along with my neonatology and respiratory pharmacology text books.  

Unfortunatley, that man probably makes 11 dollars an hour, and enjoys building himself up at others' expense.
To Chris Eldridge (Sent Friday, January 05, 2007 10:58 PM). Sorry for the late response to your comment. I have worked in mesoamerican sites for the better part of 20 years and have never been to an archaeological site that the looters did not get to first.  In short, the looters know where the ruins are-it is the archaeologists that don't know where they are.
The people who put this word God into this subject should vaporize and shut up and disappear.  You religious zealots are a pain in the butt.  You want to talk about religion then go to a religious site and warp your brain somemore.  Leave science and discoveries alone and butt out.  Your so called God has nothing to do with this at all.  Yes now we have some brains to figure out what took place from our ancestors and you zealots bring up this BS.  Always interfering even in medical discoveries that brings us a cure to our afflictions, because of your so called righteous attitudes which is killing thousands daily.  To start with your religious fanactism is so screwed up you need to really see a shrink!!!!!!

Now to science, yes it is time we find out things and of what took place.  This knowledge is pertinent to our survival and who knows we might also discover eventually how us humans really ticked and how they lived etc.  Keep it going science and keep posting these discoveries so we can gain more knowledge as time goes on.  
Why can't they spot Osama?
maybe those glyphs tell of a disaster. the mayans made sacrifices to their gods for various reasons. to sacrifice royalty, it had to be for a special occasion. glyph 2 could be the sacrifical knife their high priest used, and glyph 10 could be the burial mask of the chosen royal sacrificial victim.
I've wondered before if satellites could be used for this type of research........unlocking the past. Cool! Way to go guys! Sorry, I don't do politics or religion. Just fact.
Maybe the US Gov can hire NASA to use there high tech equipment and use it over Afghanistan and find Bin Laden.  Wait.  NASA is part of the gov already.  It is great to find lost temples in the jungle but I think there are better ways to use NASA.
I love science, and the use of technology to explore our world. But I love God more, since it was he that gave us this world. I do find it ironic that the anti-religious science types will take anything written as "scientific proof" but unproven, at full face value, yet will deny the God Inspired, Unfallible, Inerrant Bible which has been proved to be true over and over since it was written.

Science then= Dinosayrs and men did not co exist
Science now= well maybe they did
Bible= they did

Science then= Neanterthal, Cro-Magnon and Hominids are various evolutionary stages of modern humans
Science now= well maybe they did co-exist, but the Hominids killed off the others
Bible= The great flood killed all but the family of Noah

Science would be better served if scientists went to the source more often. GOD BLESS YOU ALL!
I do not wish to denegrate discoveries made recently useing satellite imagery however in 1989 a survey was made of 100 sq miles of northern Belize rain forrest in which Satellite imagery and the GPS system were both used and which resulted in the locating of several Mayan sites of some magnitude.  The use of the technology and the technique are not new.
I think it is great they ae capable of finding lost cities of artifacts, perhaps they will soon be able to help me find my TV remote.
There is a simple answer to this subject: "factors that may slow the aging process"...HORMONES!  More than anything else, decreasing amounts of hormones as we get older are responsible for aging as we know it.  Most people peak, hormonally speaking, in their mid-20's.  It is also the time that people stop growing and fully mature physically.  From that point on, people literally start going downhill slowly but surely due to decreasing hormonal levels over time.

Ever wondered why celebs buy Human Growth Hormone?

Same reason why many women go on hormone replacement therapy while going through menopause.  Obviously, diet and lifestyle play a role in aging as well.  But, if we could all pop a daily hormone tablet every day as mature adults, we would feel more like kids...
For those that keep asking about why this tech isn't used for finding other lost pieces of history... it's explained in the article.

The technique in question is imaging chemical changes in the vegatation.

Q: Why can't they distinguish old growth vs. new growth at other types of ruins.  

A: Since the Mayan civilization collapsed nearly 2000 years ago, it's ALL old growth.  It's the fact that they built with limestone that causes the changes.

Q:  Why can't they find a ship wreck.

A:  It's very hard to get jungle vegatation to grow underwater or under a sand dune.

Q:  Why isn't this used in the Ohio Valley area?

A:  Indigenous people there did not build with limestone.

I'm not an expert in satellite imaging or Mayan history.  Just a layman who remembers the good advice my father gave me... "when all else fails, read the directions."


Well, I am very excited about the limitless possibilities that this find opens up.  Although, it is a double edge sword in that it makes a distinct line between believers in God and believers in science.  I myself, believe very much in God, but I am acknowledge the fact that God has given us the tools (brains) necessary to uncover all of the earth's mysteries.  To those that believe in God, let's educate our peers and not preach about why we are better.  To those that are non-believers, let's not be so close-minded and egotistical to believe that a higher power doesn't exist.  That's just not intelligent.  Thanks for listening!
[...]  They will never find any "ancient Mormon ruins" because of the fact they do not, nor ever did, exist!  Joseph Smith made this fiction up off the top of his head, just like L. Ron Hubbard invented his own religion to get rich quick.  There is NO corroboration of Smith's story outside his faithful flock...and some of his witnesses later retracted their stories.  It's a crock and Jesus never set foot in North America.

As far as "Bible banger blogs" are concerned on science sites, everything is fair game.  Atheists and agnostics forget the FACT that it takes just as much FAITH to believe in the Big Bang as it does the Bible!  There is no PROOF that the Big Bang ever happened, and it can't be replicated in the lab.  Nor has the "missing link" ever been found to link us with primates.  If you look at all the facts, there is no direct proof of "macro-evolution", either.  Even "micro-evolution" is a bit questionable since all evolutionary evidence is circumstantial at best.

Ever wonder why are written records don't go back more than approx. 5,000 years?  The earliest mention of man might stretch back to about 10,000 B.C.  I don't have the answers as to why that is, but I find it interesting that modern humans seem to have just appeared on the earth only a few thousand years ago.  Compared to the age of the earth (4.4B years) and the fossil records of most animals, Homo sapiens are a relatively new commodity on the planet.  It's like we magically appeared right after the last major ice age!
Rich; PA!
Dr. Sam, the discoverer of the Bosnian pyramids is traveling to Egypt in March to give a presentation of his progress.
I received an email from him today.
Much is being withheld from the human race!
Open my website at: www.stargate-chroncles.com for more surprises.
Clark, ScO
I use google earth to zoom in on different places on the earth.I have found some intresting areas in northern syria,egypt and south america.I have a very good eye for detail.Even seen strange structures in the sea.
You would be amased at what someone with a good eye like myself can pick up on the ground using google earth.I bet there are many other people like my self doing the same thing.We just do not want the wrong people finding lost cities or structure as they may contain valuable items from the past.
So what if you do find something intreasting on google earth imaging like a lost city.What do you do with infomation like that.Contact the local media.Contact the local museum.Sell the infomation on e bay for the higest bidder.Go to the location and check it out for yourself.I beleive there should be some kind of security protocols in place for infomation like this.
It takes a very arrogant person to think they can thrust their beliefs of any kind upon others. Live it, don't push it!
Why does every argument about PROGRESS turn into a question of science or faith?? Look none of you have an all-inclusive answer that makes perfect sense. BELIEVE WHAT IS FACTUAL AND LIKEWISE WHAT IS POSSIBLE (PROBABLE). It's called eliminating unfocused argument. Stop bickering over what u can't PROVE and focus on the bigger picture. The universe is ginormous, plenty of room for truth, ideology and growth. But KEEP IT MOVING FORWARD... I for one am very interested in the lost history of our kind and a discovery or use of science in this nature is beneficial to us as a whole.  
HMMM I thought the same thing more proof the book of mormon is true! it sure seems to fit doesn't it?
the question i have has anyone ever took the time to plot on a map from space to see if any of the stars match up with the citys of the mayan this way you would know if the citys and the stars match up so you can get some better information also the citys from other palces


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=27509

Latest Tech & Science News

Syndicate This Site

Add Cosmic Log to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google