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Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

Check out Boyle's biography or send a message to Cosmic Log via cosmiclog@msnbc.com.



Subatomic scare tactics

Posted: Sunday, September 10, 2006 5:02 PM by Alan Boyle

Here's your chance to chime in on topics relating to space, science, exploration or innovation that haven't gotten their due over the past week. For example, have you heard the one about the machine that could destroy the planet?

Years ago, that's what they said about the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider, the accelerator in New York. Some had feared that the machine could create a weird breed of subatomic particle known as a negative strangelet - and that such strangelets could set off a globe-gobbling chain reaction. The collider even spawned a science-fiction novel titled "Cosm."

Fortunately, the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider didn't set off a catastrophe, but it did give scientists a peek at the "primordial soup" of quarks and gluons that was thought to exist just after the Big Bang.

Now some people are worrying about the world's next-generation particle collider, the Large Hadron Collider, which is due to open for business next year at CERN's facility on the Franco-Swiss border. For instance, here's a message from Ran Livneh:

"The LHC will soon be activated, creating physical environment very similar to that which prevailed soon after the Big Bang. This physical realm is unknown, and dangerous phenomena might arise. From the LHC site:

"'According to some theoretical models, tiny black holes could be produced in collisions at the LHC. They would then very quickly decay into what is known as Hawking radiation (the tinier the black hole, the faster it evaporates) which would be detected by experiments.'

"This is but one example - Any physicist will tell you that there is no way to prove that generated black holes will decay! The consequences of being mistaken are unfathomable.

"This subject deserves serious unbiased discussion."

In its FAQ file for the Large Hadron Collider, CERN asserts that the subatomic collisions "are not dangerous." Nevertheless, the issue has stirred up quite a discussion on the PhysOrg forums, with some of the postings referring to those old worries over strangelets.

So that's one doomsday vision you can discuss during this weekend's "Open Mike Night" here at the Log. Another dark topic, much closer to home, has to do with the technological dimensions of the 9/11 anniversary.

Noah Shachtman's Defense Tech homes in on how the search for Osama bin Laden went awry. At the same time, security-related research has skyrocketed in the wake of 9/11. How much can society do to save us from future terror attacks?

On a sunnier note, the space shuttle Atlantis finally got off the ground after two weeks' worth of delays. If this space mission is considered successful, NASA is likely to ease some of its post-Columbia safety restrictions - for example, the requirement to launch during daylight. Are the demons of the Columbia tragedy finally being exorcised?

Feel free to leave your comments on these or other cosmic topics - including your recommendations for the Cosmic Log Used Book Club. You just might win a book!

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Comments

If we do not build the facilities necessary to allow our scientists to further determine the truths of life, the Universe and everything, then we are a society which is not progressing.  If we are a society which is not progressing, then why are we here at all?  We are nothing more that a cancer consuming all of the available resouces on the planet for no good reason, if that is the case.

I believe it is our destiny to push knowledge as far as we can and ultimately to inherit all of the mysteries of our Universe and all knowledge.  Therefore, I am in full support of progress at any cost.  Because, ultimately if the worst case scenario happens: if a stable black hole develops, or strangelets get produced and consume all matter on the planet, it doesn't matter.  We will all die anyway and when and where really doesn't matter.  So, why be afraid of it?
the study of a state of energy that destroys worlds, without qualm or reason is as curious to me as dogs obsession with each others arses, the meaning of live is not to found in subatomics, if you look around you might glimps it, but you will be too late, consumer goods have  laid waste to a once beautiful planet
The James Webb telecope is almost finish and Hubble placed us very close to the big bang.  What more do man need to see.  Black holes are extinction level events in our universe so why create one on earth? If we lack the technology to stop a black hole then why must we create them?  I hope the LHC is shutdown before it comes up to full power before life as we know it is gone.
Please don't turn on the Collider.It might cause problems that you might not be able  to go back and fix.
I think this experiment is inconceivable to the human mind. None the less, the universe has recreated this billions and billions and billions and billions of times, and nothing has ever happened to the universe as long as we have been inhabiting on the earth. Still, i think this is a very bad idea, humans should never play god, i think we should just go about our normal lives and try to make changes for the good. this MIGHT prove to be a catastrophe, but it MIGHT prove to be very helpful. i think this is all just media hype. the same thing as Y2K, or when the people in england did a radio broadcast about aliens attacking the earth and people went screaming out into the street.
Think if the experiment was to fail and we would not have been here to discuss about it..for god sack stop this over the above type of experiments.
I think we are seriously overestimating our technological prowess here. You're telling me that we have created a device that may or may not cause matter to self destruct, yet when I go to the doctor he still has to stick his finger in my rectum to check my prostrate...Get Real !
I Really Dont understand this quiet well but, When i first heard of this, This really scared me to death, that all night i was shaking in fear, and shaking at school. I totally lost it. I Suggest That even if it is a tiny chance of a black hole gobbling up our earth than do not , please do not take the chance! I Really love my life and so do other people. Everyone wants to see their children grow up and not get sucked into a black hole. I am sure you guys have a family also. I Already have enough hearing about fictional stuff about dec 21 2012. I hope thats fake. But seriously, please, even if it is a small chance, do not do it. My best est friend nearly committed suicide on the day before by jumping in front of a train, I Stopped her Thank god. But I am sure she was not the only one. Please, Do not do anything bad for us. Think of the 6 billion souls before the 6 billion Machine. I Think Those souls are more worth than the machine will ever be.
Remember Oppenheimer?  The dude almost offed himself after seeing the destructive power of what he'd created.  That is the weakest comparison to assuage our fears I can think of.  Yes it's true that these same kinds of qualms arose with the first forays into nuclear fusion.  And it's true that test runs of A-bomb explosions didn't set off 'dangerous chain reactions' that ran out of control upon detonation.  Just because nuclear science didn't instantly destroy life as we know it doesn't mean it should have been allowed to happen.  We're still perpetually moments away from nuclear war and hundreds of Chernobyl-esque powerplant meltdowns all over the world, given the right mix of political instability, pandemic, famine and drought, etc.  I'm not a doomsayer, but you can't rationally claim that the world will always have adeuqately trained specialists to keep this fine-tuned technology operating as it should.  Sure it's fine in a perfectly operating system.  But why is no one freaked about how far-reaching and long-lasting the effects of even small mistakes from our subatomic tinkerings are?  When talking safety you have to consider more than just ideal circumstances, people.  It's just common sense.  

Don't get me wrong, I love science, I respect intelligence, I'm not at all religious, and I believe technology has enormous potential for good.  We just never seem to think about the natural state of things and how new technologies could upset those ecological balances.  Life around us is finely tuned for the physical state of things now, in ways we will never fully understand.  How can we presume to say this is safe, when it's messing with the very building blocks of existence?  (It's interesting how all the positive input from the scientific community seems to be from physicists - how do ecologists and biologists weigh in on this thing??) I just don't understand how people who are supposed to be so smart feel they can dick around with OUR SHARED WORLD just to answer some question that keeps them up at night.  Go use your big brains to figure out how to HELP people.  90% of the world's population lives in slums right now, and all you can think of is what things were like during the Big Bang?  WTFingF.  Go work on Solar or something -- please!
Man I think every sorry student I ever had to teach in freshman chemistry lab has gotten on here to express their fear of the unknown. Should have studied a little more and you wouldn't be so afraid. Science has brought you people everything you have that isn't make believe. And the people that did all this did so by sacrificing heavily to do so. They didn't get paid huge salaries. No stock options. In fact its a vow of poverty. These people don't go into things willy nilly. They argue every point and possibility. Nothing is taken for granted. They advance civilization while the rest of you do your dead level best to tear it down. Doesn't it stand out to you that the only difference between you and the rest of the animals and plants on this planet is you ability to reason and think. Doesn't it make sense then that reason and thought is your purpose on this planet. Not the accumulation of material things. Even the Bible says that your day to die is already written. Its God's will not the scientists when this earth will be no more.
Does anyone think, that after all of the billions of dollars spent on this project, that its NOT going to actually happen? Protest as we might, scientific experiments will always prevail. look no further than cloning and stem cell research. With all great discovery comes great risk. I for one am exited to see what the future holds. If it turns out to be our demise, at least we can say that we were attempting to move foreward and not stagnate.
The ambition of the few should not dictate the outcome of the majority... like it has in the past. But at least we'll get to see it, even if its the last thing we see.
wouldnt a small black hole take forever to decay?

hawking said initial size is inversely related to its lifespan.

seems more likely that black holes would enjoy a period of growth before hitting mass necessary to shrink.

[ALAN ADDS: Actually, the same theory that proposes the existence of black holes also says that the larger a black hole is, the colder it is and the longer it will persist. A stellar-size black hole would hang around for something like 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years (sorry if that slops over) ... while a subatomic black hole (actually, a "white hole" would be a better term) is quite hot and lasts only for an incredibly small instant).]
Ok, the skinny on the black hole factory.  These babies will be no more than a pair of colliding protons creating a microscopic black hole that will evaporate in something less than a trillionth of a second (don't take my word for it, Stephen Hawking recently ended up paying out a set of encyclopedias because he had to admit he was wrong, and black holes do give off radiation and evaporate).

Why these aren't dangerous?  Easy, they will be composed of two protons colliding with one another.  This means that these micro black holes will have no more mass than a helium nucleus, i.e. next to nothing.  Gravity doesn't just magically run amok when a black hole forms, its just matter compressed into a much denser form.  It won't have any more gravitational pull on the machine or the particles around it than a helium nucleus would.  They're going to be lucky if more than a handful of these black holes are formed with over 100 million attempted collisions per experiment, so the odds of one of these black holes actually forming, then running into enough particles to actually sustain itself is null.  Ain't happening.  The odds are, even if it could sustain itself for any meaningful length of time, its small enough it could fly through the Earth and not yank anything into it anyway.  Fully compressed, it could fly through a hydrogen atom with nary a ripple. ...

James Buchanan, Laurel, MD
-----------------------
this medical doctor would probably also argue evolution over creationism.

what are odds of life randomly occurring?

less than chance we will destroy world with hadron collider.


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