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Pyramid skeptics strike back

Posted: Thursday, June 15, 2006 7:48 PM by Alan Boyle

Rhetorical battle lines are being drawn in the strange case of the purported Bosnian pyramid - and in recent days, the skeptics have been shining a brighter spotlight on the murkier aspects of an amateur archaeologist's claims.

You have to admit there's a measure of romantic irresistibility about Bosnian-born Semir Osmanagic's contention that a forested hill in central Bosnia-Herzegovina is actually a buried Ice Age pyramid. The claim sounds a bit like the "Face on Mars" phenomenon - with the added appeal that you can actually dig around at the site.

The media momentum started building around the end of last year, when local scientists made surveys of Visocica hill. Last month, Osmanagic's claims got a big boost when an Egyptian geologist visited the mound and said it appeared to be human-made. Then the U.N. Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization said it would send its own team to Bosnia.

All this attention is worrisome to mainstream archaeologists, who are virtually certain the claims will turn out to be bogus. They worry that the misdirected excavation will end up damaging honest-to-goodness artifacts, and they're also bothered by some of Osmanagic's even farther-out ideas, such as the theory that the ancestors of the Maya came from outer space.

This week, Archaeology magazine's Mark Rose provides a withering update on the controversy:

"One might have thought that the Ice Age Bosnian pyramid story would collapse like a bad soufflé, but no. Mainstream media has become somewhat more critical of stories emanating from Visoko, but much of the real work in dissecting the claims has appeared on blogs and message boards, such as The Hall of Ma'at (see "Pseudoscience in Cyberspace"). Unfortunately, the mainstream folks haven't picked up on much of this."

Rose notes that a Bosnian group of experts judged the mound to be natural rather than human-made, and he points to last week's skeptical pronouncements from a visiting British archaeologist.

Should there be even more site visits and more digging, or should the Bosnian government heed the skeptics and call a halt to the project? Feel free to study the evidence and weigh in with your comments.

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I agree wholeheartedly w/Andy's comment.  The only problem I have is when a "cynic", "skeptic", or "critic" go beyond the boundaries resulting in a supression of truth or the supression of the new discovery itself.  I believe Osmanagic has done the right thing in being stubborn against the critics and continuing on as if they didn't exist.
If there is a GIANT pyramid there then why are they having such a hard time proving it.  It's been months!  What's with all the digging, a ground servey with siesmic techniques should reveal a GIANT pyramid.  

I’m Petros Petrosyan from Armenia. I was born in 1962. In 1985 I graduated from Yerevan Engineering University. I am married and I have 2 children. Since 1988 I have been seriously interested in the problems connected with the origin and predestination of the pyramids. During these nearly 14 years I have thoroughly got acquainted with the whole history concerning the pyramids.I know the orthodox theory of the origin and predestination of the pyramids,quite well.I am aware of the opinions of many pyramidologists as well. I must tell you, that the official Egyptology is not always right in everything what concerns the origin and predestination of the pyramids.I’m deeply convinced,that Egyptology is wrong in the main point and this is in the following: Standing firm on the well-known Egyptological theory,that pyramids are only mausoleums of pharaohs,they have utterly closed the door,through which the true decision of the given question had to enter. As you know many pyramidologists from different countries support the hypothesis,according to which the pyramid is considered to be a coded message to mankind. I truly support this hypothesis and after long investigations having lasted for years,I tried to prove it with the help of my book “Pyramids: The Key to the Code of Self-Destruction”,which was published in 2002 in the “Edit Print” Publishing House in Armenia. ISBN 99930-935-2-1

The following things were ascertained by me:

1. The pyramid is not only the mausoleum for the pharaoh, and the main motives, which were the source of its construction, were not in this platitude. Here it must be emphasized, that Egyptology has never accepted even the thought of any serious discussion on the problem concerning the code of the pyramid, being in constant contradictions with pyramidology mainly in this cause.

Thus Egyptology deprived itself of the chance of taking part in finding ways for the true resolution of this problem.

2. All architectural-construction parametres of the pyramid are of no principal significence from the point of their cryptographical value. Trying to solve the problem of the hypothetically supposed code of the pyramid, many pyramidologists often turned to different pseudo-mathematical interpretations, which were nearly always connected with the geometrical parametres of the Great Pyramid of Giza.

Following this way, every time pyramidology considerably stands aside from the true way of solving the given problem.

3. The essence of the code is hidden in those peculiarities of the geometrical form of the pyramid, which stipulate the definition of the given geometrical form.

4. I fixed the principal model of the cryptographical matrix the code of the pyramid. The principal model of the hypothetically supposed code of the pyramid consists of 365 small pyramids, which from the facets of the 14-stepped big pyramid.

5. It was settled, that the Bible has the very direct relationship with the suggested code. In addition, some parts in the Bible at the same time are the constituent parts of the code and keys for its deciphering.

6. The figures 365 and 14 are considered to be one of the main keys in deciphering it.

7. The coded information about concrete extents, which is difficult for me to express, refers to the principal aspects in the formation of the Solar system, the planet Earth, bases of the Matter organization, factors creating time and many other things as well. 8. In the process of investigations on the principal model of the code, I finally undertood, that the information, which interests us-is coded in the way of various geometrical compositions, which are fixed in the structure of the code itself. Geometrical compositions of small pyramids can be both flat and volume-spatial.

9. Whit the help of the academical methods of mathematical analysis of definite geometrical compositions of small pyramids are received concrete figure systems and mathematical equations and their essence and significence are always defined with the help of the periodical list of the chemical elements.

To visit PETROS PETROSYAN'S web site go to:
http://freenet.am/~messiah

(To Jimbo (and all the sceptics ;-) )
They having such a hard time proving it because it is not easy to dig out such a monument (pyramid or whatsoever) under the tons of soil, trees, grass and stones. All that work has to be done easily, by hands and not by caterpillars and dredging machines. Beside that, all these volunteers are under the "fire" of  sceptics and debunkers of all kind. And this psychological war is very exhausting. No much support, no much money, plus hot weather these days,... imagine just that.
Let them dig, there is something big down there. It will just take time and a hard work.
If Osmanagic didn't come out with his crazy story and the project to dig out "the pyramids" in the middle of Bosnia they had been still covered under the tons of soil, trees and grass. Pyramids or whatever!? Why the high degrees academics and historians are all against it!? Simply because of the anger and jealousy they were not the first to see and point out, probably the most sensational discovery of European history. Domestic people gone bananas about all and that's OK, that's natural. If they make some fun about it or making souvenirs or food in the shape of pyramids trying to earn some money what's wrong with that. If this is fanaticism, fine. I rather prefer this kind of fanaticism than the one we had in the last war. Bosnian people did suffer much, let them breath a little air now. Let them dig out their first "pyramid", their very own history.
The Visoko-hypotheses is fuzzy: we do not even know if the whole 600m mountain is meant to be a pyramid, or only the top 100 or 200 meters, all of these possibilities were implied in media-releases . We also do not know what would count as a pyramid...a pyramid-shaped hill with man-enhanced shafts could be hailed as a 'primitive pyramid' as the egyptian expert calls the concept, although the area is full of mine-shafts from celts and romans anyway.  Such fuzzyness adds to confusion and buzz, allowing the organizers of the event plenty od room to wiggle and extend their projects in the face of not coming up with anything tangible.

To call the pyramid-hill 'four sided' is plain wrong, on the fourth side there is a clear connection to a mountain ridge via a saddle, visible on their own photos and local topographic maps.  The flat surfaces of the hill have their matches on the opposite side of the valleys, suggesting glacial or fluvial origins of the features.  Satellite images show the whole region to exibit a criss-crossing pattern of ridges at right angles beyond the pyramid area - also the work of the ancients?  Similarly, there exist other unusual, regular  topographic features in the vicinity, what about the giant kidney-shaped amphitheater one sees on the photos- why no mention, no plausible theory to fit it in?  The human mind ends to find regularity in chaotic patterns, a phenomenon called 'pareidolia', the facce on mars was mentioned already, the face of Jesus on a tortilla, Rohrschach test etc.  Pyramid-shaped hills are found around the world, I counted 5 potential ones on the way to work in my neck of the woods.

Also: why does Osmanagic come up with the pyramid hypotheses now?  He has been living and studying 30km from the place (sociology and economics I believe) and was heavily into 'cryptoarcheology' years ago with his round granit-bolder theories of ancient civilisations in Bosnia ... why no earlier connection between the legendary pyramid-shaped hill in visoko and the pyramid?  

Arguments like 'they laughed about Galileo and Lister as well' do not count, claims have to be weighted against best evidence of the case at hand.  
Osmanagic is a talented event-creator and businessman, bringing tourism to his hometown and public exposure for his projects.  After all, there's gold in them there old legends and funny shaped hills if you know HOW to look: the mystery-of-the-ancients angle, fanning patriotic fervor, fuzzily worded press releases, 'Miss Bosnia' events...look and learn
;-)
I say let them dig, all critics should go to the site and let their thoughts be known. If Osmanagic can prove them wrong he will, if he cannot then critics win. But please go and look at the site yourself, don't judge from thousands miles away. And please don't sneak around, let them know you are there because you do not believe them. We don't care if Osmanagic does not have any credentials. Our elite accredited archaeologists are not capable of anything else but to critize someone elses work.

I have visited the pyramids (some dig sites) and i am not sceptic any more. These things are real !
Maybe for now they dont look like pretty pyramids -there are these huge flat blocks under the earth.

I live in bosnia and i never have seen these kind of rocks and in this shape and positions.

* Sides of the pyramids are eqal and form equal sides triangle.

* The tops of tree pyramids are conected at same length and form also a equal sides triangle.

* The shadow of pyramid of sun exactly covers the pyramid of moon at winter and sumer solstice.

* There are tunnels with ventilation at every 30 m with some megalith blocks and strange markings - they connect the pyramids at the center of their bases.

* The drainage of water from hills of pyramids is not radial as in natural formations.

* There is no irregular errosion as in natural hills.

In War, hills, when bombarded emitted bonking noise (not as other regular hills.)

Local people used for centuries bulding material from  these pyramids - that also must be noted.

This is real - i have been sceptic like many other bosnians , and i have make jokes about MrSemir (a.k.a Bosnian Indiana Jones) but know i know there are pyramids- maybe you ought to see by yourself.

- I think they are shaped hill covered with huge stone blocks.

visit - http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com
     - http://pyramidsofbosnia.blogspot.com/
     - http://www.piramidasunca.com/

...

Could those blocks just be leftovers from building the medieval town just 200m away?
maybe if they could only find some Bigfoot tracks around the pyramids then the scientists would surely come.
Personally, the guy's probably wrong. To Ms. Reece however, let the man dig. Better yet, get some competent support out there to verify whether or not his claim is correct. In a twisted way this reminds me of a trio of doctors in Malta. Thier ideas were dismissed out of hand too; while being obviously educated and intelligent people, they weren't 'professional archaeologists'. It has only been within the last few years that their theories concerning prehistorical Malta have begun to be seriously examined one way or another. It is the same here. At the very least the site should be examined thoroughly and objectively.

As for the idea that more local archaologists should be onsite, I agree. However, how many local 'experts' are there in Bosnia? Last I checked the place was in and out of war for several years. I think the Bosnian government would've sent more local talent if there was any. Mr. Osmanagic is probably the closest to a local 'expert' available. Otherwise I'm sure the Bosnians would've sent thier own certifed person, if only to appease the heavy hitters of mainstream archaeology. And so far there seems to have been lots of talk but no action. If you want to silence the conspiracy theorists Ms. Reece, you need all three sides on site - the believers, the pundits, and those who simply want to get the job done right. Until that can be made a priority, I don't think the mainstream has too much to complain about. If they can't send someone, it is either because they don't have someone to send, or it simply isn't a priority to investigate Osmanagic's claims about the structure. That being said, eventually he will prove himself right or wrong to the public at large.

On a final note out of curiousity, how big is the field of professional archaeology these days? If anyone can answer with an approximate number of 'experts' in the world today. My point is everytime something like this comes up, someone screams to send in the experts. These professionals cannot be everywhere at once. As popular as the field seems to be, from the outside looking in archaeology seems still a somewhat exclusive field. More people obviously need to enter it. More need to be recruited into and be trained in this fascinating discipline. Not as easy as it sounds. For example, there are a few colleges in my area with absolutely wonderful degree programs. Unfortunately, you have to effectively give up your job for a few years. Not an option if you need that career to pay the bills. I've lost count of how many technology programs have moved online. Not so with anthropology and archaeology. In fact, the only university I know of offering an online archaeology degree is Leicester in the UK. Nothing takes the place of field work, but moving core courses into distance learning programs should help entice some who are 'on the wall' so to speak. In addition, offering certifcate programs in anthropology and archaeology will allow some to enter the occupation more quickly while working on a degree. Effort should also be made to attract people from other disciplines. Such people would not only bring a new perspective, having multi-talented individuals will expand the talent pool and give them something to fall back on during a slowdown in pure archaeological work. Granted this is from one who is not an 'expert'. But I respect the field and feel this is what is needed to sustain it. Not just to sustain it, but to ensure that those who want the training can easily obtain it. And most of all, to ensure that the next time someone thinks they've made the discovery of the century they can easily find the 'experts'. Instead of having to progress slowly while the rest of the world argues away.

To Mr. Osmanagic - whether you prove your claim or not, may you at least always find and share wisdom.

SC
i do not wish to attack anyone for it would seem that plenty of that is being done already. What is it that the so-called experts r afraid of? i have always been taught that science is a study of questions and theroies etc. and to find facts. well facts cant be found if all that is being done is ridiculing and back biting. no advances or discoveries would ever had been made if it wasnt for someone to have first had questions and wonderment. the "experts" and scientists were not born with their collective knowledge, there had to be a first archeoligist, anthropologist or even palenintoligist. Hey, were dinosaurs really thought to be real at first anyway. plus what about the idea of pangea. u know it just might be possible things r "younger" than some want it to be. is it possible that maybe some parts of what religionist say is actually true. maybe just maybe science is exact or 100% accurt after all.
I've read an interesting article on http://www.bosnian-pyramid.net/ about the corners of the pyramid. It would be an easy way to proof quickly the existence, but they dig near the corners but not the corners. Then they've dug something on the top of it, but not the top!? I've seen some pictures on http://www.pyramids-in-bosnia.info/ that really let me think again about this whole thing. Every day I believe less in this mystery.
There ought to be a law against having pyramids on the Balkan. I mean who do they think they are? Before we realize what is happening somebody from another no-name-little-country will have the nerve to try to put their little turf on the map with giants, like the USA, England and other first rate civilizations. Nonsense, I protest. My civil rights are being violated, I will sue those responsible. The nerves these people have.
Sometime, ya just never know. Like what is under those mounds at Cahokia?
Its great that they're stirring up the hornets nest. Sometimes science needs that kick in the a$$ to get them looking for new ideas. Whether its true or not it can't really hurt to keep digging.
It can hurt to dig if they do not watch what they are doing, but if they stop nothing will ever be found. We would not have the sights and fossils we have today if people gave up. I can dig in my back yard and find a new archeological site, but I don't have the drive to do that. If you like being out in the heat and rain, find new things. Live your dreams.
A recent Digg story:
Expert-view on the bogus story that caught attention of world media (CNN, MSNBC, BBC, Reuters, AP...) in 2006-2007. See why it is entirely possible for the "pyramids" near Visoko, Bosnia, to actually represent a historical monument that deserves to be included in UNESCO World Heritage list.  Live history now - as geopolitical secrets get unearthed.
http://omerbashich.blogspot.com/
Hate to bust everyone's bubble that believes in this bogus "pyramid scheme"....but that's a freakin' HILL. Look at a stellite map of it, then zoom out a bit. You'll see many more hills that can be made into any shape you want them to be....just like the "Face on Mars".

That said, if someone wants to waste time digging into it...knock yourself out.
The land was once accessible to almost all, the majority of water frozen, and so it follows that there are pyramids everywhere.  We all wanted to reach the heavens at some point in our lives.  Why wouldn't they have?  The Tower of Babylon folks.  Think about it, you'll get it.
Purely another example of how little we really know about our past. As archaeologists around the world use better technologies as a tool to do there job we are going to be learning SO much more than we already do.

These findings don't surprise me in the least!
Was the guy that discovered the mound wearing a tinfoil pyramid hat at the time?  Just curious.
Continue! Even if the pyramid turns out to be naturally made - ice-aged people no doubt would have noticed and honored such an anomaly as an important site. Evidence of how they honored the site might give insight into other aspects of their cultural practices and beliefs.  
I don't know how I 'stumbled' onto this discussion, but I can only wonder how ANYTHING has ever gotten accomplished in this World.......!  For those who must keep their mind in a box, know that the 'accredited professionals' will always have to justify their importance.  But the World moves forward on the backs of the curious, the dreamers,and those that march to different drummers. And thank God for that...or to our 'alien forefathers'!
What I see here is the "Green EYED Monster" rearing it's head. The recognized scientific community is afraid of losing face to an "amatuer". By the attempts to stop the work that will answer the question, they do themselves and Mr Osmanagic a diservice.
PEOPLE JUST GO TO WWW.PIRAMIDASUNCA.BA
AND YOU WILL SEE.


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