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Quantum fluctuations in space, science, exploration and other cosmic fields... served up regularly by MSNBC.com science editor Alan Boyle since 2002.

Alan Boyle covers the physical sciences, anthropology, technological innovation and space science and exploration for MSNBC.com. He is a winner of the AAAS Science Journalism Award, the NASW Science-in-Society Award and other honors; a contributor to "A Field Guide for Science Writers"; and a member of the board of the Council for the Advancement of Science Writing.

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Planet-sized problems

Posted: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:19 PM by Alan Boyle

The debate over the definition of planethood has been simmering for years – and it bubbled up again this week, thanks to new research into free-floating planemos, or planetary-mass objects. It turns out that the debate could well be settled this summer.


Jon Lomberg / JonLomberg.com
Artwork shows a planemo, or planetary-
mass object, surrounded by a disk of gas
and dust that could form satellites.

For most of the last 75 years or so, the conventional wisdom has been that there were nine and only nine planets: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. However, several recent discoveries have complicated that picture. Astronomers now know that Pluto is actually part of a wide belt of icy mini-worlds known as the Kuiper Belt – and that at least one other Kuiper Belt object just might be bigger.

Meanwhile, almost 200 seeming planets have been detected around stars beyond our sun, and other curious objects such as brown dwarfs and free-floaters have been spotted as well.

Considering that there could be scores of objects like Pluto on our solar system’s rim, should we demote Pluto from the ranks of the major planets? Or should other mini-worlds such as Xena, Sedna and even good old Ceres get a promotion instead? What classification system makes sense, not only for our little neck of the celestial woods, but for other yet-to-be-explored planetary systems as well?

As additional not-your-typical-planets are discovered, it’s important to know exactly what you’re talking about. That’s why the planethood debate is important – not just for astronomy geeks, but also for future generations of students and explorers. Heck, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson says he received “hate mail from third-graders” after he dissed Pluto’s planetary status.

Brian Marsden, the director of the International Astronomical Union’s Minor Planet Center at the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, has been involved in the debate for as long as anybody. “It still goes on,” he told me today.

A working group associated with the International Astronomical Union has been chewing over the definition of planethood for several years, but the IAU hasn’t yet resolved the issue.

There’s general agreement on the upper limit for a planet: If the mass of a celestial body is 13 times the mass of Jupiter, then internal thermonuclear fusion starts up, and the body is classified as a star or a brown dwarf – that is, a failed star. It’s the minimum bar for planethood that’s trickier, particularly because smaller objects are generally measured in terms of diameter rather than mass.

“Three possibilities were being discussed,” Marsden said:

  • On one hand, you have the “Plutocrats” who say anything Pluto’s size (about 2,000 kilometers wide) or larger should be dubbed a planet.
  • On the other hand, you have those who favor setting the bar higher – say, 4,000 kilometers wide – and lumping Pluto in with the other Kuiper Belt objects.
  • On the, um, third hand, you have the planemo proponents, who would favor setting the bar much lower – as low as 300 kilometers wide. Anything above that would be considered a planemo.

“We’re talking about the body itself, not what it’s doing,” Marsden explained. “Certainly the moon is perfectly good planemo, as are some of the moons of Jupiter.”

Even the smallest planemos would tend to be spherical, conforming to our classical image of a planet. But clearly, not all planemos are planets. Marsden said planets might be defined as planemos that orbit a “fusor” – that is, any object that is generating energy through fusion.

That definition would add Xena, Ceres and other mini-worlds to the traditional planet list. However, some astronomers would toss out those candidates – and Pluto, by the way – on technical grounds, by adding a rule that excludes planemos that belong to belts such as the main asteroid belt or the Kuiper Belt.

If all this has left you feeling muddled, you’re not alone. The International Astronomical Union’s effort to come up with a sensible definition of planethood is somewhat muddled as well.

“Because the committee was divided on this matter, yet another committee was formed,” Marsden said. This group, which includes non-scientists as well as astronomers, is to meet sometime in the next few weeks and come up with a recommendation for the IAU’s general assembly in Prague this August.

“We may even be allowed to vote on it,” Marsden said, which holds the promise of finally producing an official ruling on planemos and planets.

To Marsden’s way of thinking, giving Pluto “special status” as one of the nine and only nine planets would be exactly the wrong thing to do. That would be like “waving a red rag in front of a bull,” he said. He’d be fine with reducing the solar system’s planetary list to eight, and perhaps giving Pluto a place of honor among Kuiper Belt objects as a consolation prize.

But another way of resolving the Pluto problem might be to celebrate our planetary diversity rather than getting hung up on the historical “nine planets.”

“In the solar system, we’ve got four groups of planets – that is, planemos orbiting the sun,” Marsden said. Under the scheme he described, there would be midsize rocky planets (Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars); rocky dwarfs (planemo-sized asteroids within the orbit of Jupiter); gas giants (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune); and icy dwarfs (Pluto and the other planemos in the Kuiper Belt and beyond).

That kind of classification system would carry over quite easily as more powerful telescopes – and who knows, maybe even on-the-spot expeditions – chart planemos beyond our own solar system.

You don’t have to be a professional astronomer to have an opinion on the matter. In fact, the astronomers want to come up with a system that makes sense to those Pluto-crazy third-graders as well as planetary scientists. That’s exactly why the IAU is officially bringing non-scientists into the debate. Here are some of your own thoughts, e-mailed in response to this week’s planemo story:

Larry: “Pluto is the cutoff point. If it is as large as Pluto then it is a planet if it is not then it is not.

Brad:A planet should be defined by its size and shape – asteroids and free-floating rocks are rarely spherical. If it has enough mass to shape itself into a sphere (the most efficient expression of energy), then it should be called a planet.”

Dale Sikora, Billings, Mont.: “The word ‘planet’ refers to a gas giant or a rocky satellite orbiting a star.  Aside from planets, we also have comets, asteroids, Oort Cloud objects, Kuiper Belt objects, and now planemos. The Kuiper Belt objects (and theoretically asteroids) cause us the problem in making a definition because some may be the size of Pluto — a planet.  So are other Kuiper Belt objects planets as well?  Some Kuiper Belt objects are obviously comets or other nondescript balls of ice and dust, but all objects in the orbital plane of a star, which are large enough to have a significant moon or large enough to clear their own orbital path, should be considered planets.” 

Ron: [A planet is] “any object orbiting a star, with a minimum mass of 1.0 X 1022 kilograms (Pluto is 1.27 X 1022 kg) and a maximum mass of J13 (or a mass 13 times greater than Jupiter, which is the minimum mass for a brown dwarf to support deuterium fusion). Any object of this mass range, free floating in the space between stars, would be a rogue planet. Any object of this mass range orbiting a planet (as defined above) would be a moon. If both objects are of planet mass and orbiting a star, then the larger is a planet and the smaller is a moon.

Brian: “planet (n.) - A stellar object which is massive enough to form a spherical body under its own gravity, but not massive enough to ignite nuclear fusion, and has either no natural satellites or has natural satellites which are less massive than itself. If Pluto is still to be considered a planet, then any Kuiper Belt object with the same diameter or larger would have to be considered a planet regardless of its orbital eccentricity and inclination.”

Amy: “I am an astrophysics major at New Mexico Tech University and if I were to be the one to define what a planet is, my answer would be: A planet is any object of relatively circular shape (unlike the shapes of asteroids) whose orbit around the sun of the solar system to which it belongs is on relatively the same plane as the rest of the objects of that same solar system. Its orbit would not be so elliptical that it is brought within the orbits of inner planets (as are comets). Said object would be capable of having satellites that orbit it primarily as it orbits the sun.  By this definition, Pluto would be a planet because it revolves around the sun on the same relative plane as all other planets (though slightly angled), is circular in shape, and it has three known satellites so far discovered. Though its orbit intersects that of Neptune, it never has a tail and never comes with the orbits of the other planets.”

Chuck Miller: “I would define a planet as a body of matter orbiting a star and not orbiting anything else.  A moon would be a body of matter orbiting a planet, and being larger than ring material.  Comets would not be considered planets. Asteroids or meteors are bodies of matter the size of Ceres or smaller. Any body of matter larger than Ceres which does not orbit a star is an extrasolar planet.”

T.W.:A definition of a planet: A mass that is orbiting a star that possesses an atmosphere, that is further sub-categorized by composition of atmosphere.  Lacking an atmosphere, it should be defined as an asteroid.”

That definition, by the way, might demote Mercury as well as Pluto. Also, it may be tricky to determine whether a distant body has an atmosphere. Pluto, for example, is thought to have a thin atmosphere during portions of its orbit.

Mardi Coleman, Dallas: “To me, a planet is any object with enough mass and matter to have a spherical shape (unlike an asteroid) and its own gravity, but not enough mass to start thermonuclear fusion, and orbits a star (not another planet) in its own, unique orbit (not shared with other bodies like the Kuiper Belt objects), regardless of the orbital path (circular vs. elliptical). A planet and a moon could be the same size. As long as they meet the above definition, the difference would be what they orbit, not their size or mass. For example, if a planet the size of Jupiter had an object the size of Earth orbiting it, the smaller body would be the larger body's moon. Sort of a ‘moonet.’ And yes, I consider both Pluto and the unnamed 10th planet to be planets.

Robb:A planet of late seems to be anything that orbits a star and has enough mass to pretty much clear out its orbit.  But then again, what would you call the moons around our gas giants?  Some are bigger than our rocky planets, and would be planets themselves if they were in orbit around the sun.  Hey, let the astronomers with all their smarts decide.  God knows they paid enough for their education to have earned that right.”

Feel free to register your opinion by clicking through to our Live Vote, and/or adding your comments below.

 

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Comments

All right, if a shepherd moon orbits within a ring system, we still call it a moon, don't we?  So why should a planet that orbits within an asteroid or cloud system not be a planet?  That doesn't even strike me as a valid argument.  The obvious natural cut-off point is where an object directly orbiting a luminous body has enough mass to pull itself into a sphere.  Any other deliniation would just be chosen according to personal preferences.  If they want to call the little ones "minor" planets or something of the like, fine, but I think we should keep in mind that the rules are set by nature, not our arbitrary numerical systems.
Be glad Zena & Pluto weren't discovered by a Russian.  The Soviet Republics would make sure this problem were some kind of ethnocentrism against the Soviet Republics and the governing body would call Pluto and Zena a planet with some unpronounceable Russian name just like the back side of the moon.  Personally I think Walt Disney's ancestors should have a say in this case along with Lucy Lawless.
The shuttle is--we hope--headed for the ISS and I've wondered for a long time . . . what is that ISS thing doing up there in the first place?  It does a little of this and a little of that and costs a bloody fortune, money that NASA could better spend in just about any way I can think of.  

I guess it answers the question: can elephants fly?  Yes, we have a great big white elephant going round and round and round.  Why it's there, nobody knows.  
I think we have allowed the argument to get too big . An easy definition is : A planet orbits a star and is round due to gravity . It rotates in its orbit and this causes a bulge at its equator . It is the largest body if it is in a multiple body association (ie Earth and Moon) . Seems simple to me , sorry for being glib .
I believe that the term planet would be too harshly watered down if we allow Pluto and all of the larger Kuiper Belt objects to be called planets.

I believe that the term planet should only be used to refer to objects large enough to become spherical under their own mass, yet that permanently exist within the 'warm' zone of the star they orbit; to the degree that if there is an atmosphere present, it will be persistent throughout the entire orbit about the primary (star) - and even if there isn't an atmosphere it's within the range that would allow it (from a temperature perspective) to have a persistent atmosphere.

Also the object must not be part of a debris field such as an asteroid belt - which may in fact be the remnants of an older planet that was destroyed by the tidal forces generated by neighboring bodies.

An additional rule would be that the object must have already established harmonic resonance with its 'neighbors', so new arrivals to a system should be considered rogues until they have achieved at least a quasi-stable orbit around the primary, even if they fit all other definitions for planet.

Anything large enough to begin deuterium fusion could be called a brown dwarf or a 'gray dwarf' (as in barely luminous but much brighter than a brownie) depending on the state of the reaction within it. This should be the case even if the object otherwise would fit all other criteria to be named 'planet', even if it was orbiting a full blown star.

Anything large enough to have a full blow fusion process underway should of course be called a star.

Anything large enough to become spherical under its own mass that does not exist within the range where a stable atmosphere is possible (such as Pluto and possibly some of the other 'new ones') should be considered a 'cryoplanet' or whatever new term is decided to be best descriptive; indicating that it's just far too cold to really be considered a 'proper planet'.

Any object that would otherwise be called a planet, yet is itself in primary orbit of another planet or dwarf rather than the primary, should be known as a moon - whether there is an atmosphere present or not.

Other smaller objects that are on the path to becoming spherical via aggregation of smaller bodies could be known as a proto-planet, a proto-cryoplanet or simply a planetoid - depending on the estimated orbital location and final mass & temperature once the object had swept up all aggregate material within its orbital path.

Other medium sized objects existing within regions such as asteroid belts or Kuiper Belt type regions where the gravitational interference by another large body in the system (such as Jupiter) prevents them from moving forward in their agregation process should either be categorized as asteroids or planetoids depending on their surface gravity, and not their total mass. Some specific cutoff level should be determined, based on the escape velocity - basically if an astronaut in a space suit can leap off the surface and escape the object it should be considered asteroid, but if they cannot it should be a planetoid regardless of shape. Although an exception to this rule would be that even if within the equivalent of a Kuiper or asteroid belt, if the object has completely cleared its orbital path clear, it could qualify as a cryoplanet or even planet proper depending on minimum temperature.

Basically we can't begin granting each and every little hunk of roundish space junk orbiting a star or dwarf 'planethood' - however we do need to come up with a simple discrete set of a half dozen terms that will allow an amateur or professional alike to immedately understand the nature of the body being described.

Eventually, we need something similar to what is used in Star Trek, where Earth would be a 'Class M Planet' and each of the other bodies would have a code corresponding to the temperature, mass and atmospheric composition of the object.
couldn't they just all be satelites?
I think this whole debate is overly complicated. (Though of course I am just an ignorant 13 year old.) I think there should be two qualifications for a planet. First, it's role/orbit in the solar system. For instance Jupiter is a planet because it orbits the sun directly. Jupiter's 61 moon are singular objects that though do orbit the sun, they do so indirectly. But, beause they are not "bunched together." They are considered moons. However the small space rock that orbits Jupiter in clumps are it's rings not moons.
So out in the edges of the solar system, neptune is a planet not because of it's size, but that it orbits alone, there aren't millions of Neptunes in the same orbit. PLuto is (sorry for all you pluto fans.) a comet, along with all the other comets iin the Kuiper Belt. Because it does still release nitrogen and other gases, it has a tail. And even more, it travels with millions of other "Plutos."
Okay point two. If there is any dispute with the first point, the it should re-direct to this. How it was formed. I have to go to school now. Bye.
  It is best to apply the principle of Occam's Razor to the definition of what a planet is.  So, I think that the simplest definition would be the best.  The criteria for the definition would be that any object that has sufficient mass so as to have the necessary amount of gravity so as to assume a spherical shape ought to be called a planet.  The key would be to determine by math and physics what the minimum amount of mass and matter to have sufficient gravity for the assumption of a spherical shape is. Any object that has that minimum mass/gravitational strength would be bound to be a sphere.
  Having said that, I would like further amplify that any such object that is orbiting a star or a brown dwarf should be called a planet.  If such an object, regardless of size is orbiting an even larger planet, then it should be called a moon.    
Such objects floating alone out in deep space, amongst the stars ought to called rogue planets. A Really small planet, smaller than Pluto, such as Ceres, should be called a minor planet, planetlet, planetino, or some other diminutive term that conveys the notion of its relatively small size.
I have always enjoyed the links that you post on this blog.  Are you discontinuing this practice?
How do you define roundness?  Earth isn't perfectly spherical. I can't come up with a definition that isn't human-centric.
It might be easier, and more universal, to measure mass.  Consider a planemo system that has "cleared out" its orbit to the extent that it outmasses its co-orbitals.  It should be called a planet, no matter how round it is.  Of course, this requires a definition of "orbital path".  Perhaps a toroid with a radius that reaches the nearest gravitational balance point with the nearest massive body.
(Note 1) By planemo system, I mean a body and its moons or possibly a double planet.  I would define a large moon as a planet if it and its more massive partner orbit each other around a point that is between the two.  The "fulcrum" for the Earth-Moon pair is some 400 miles below the surface of the Earth, so Luna is a moon by this definition.  Pluto and Charon would be a double planet, if they outmassed the rest of the Kuiper Belt (not).
(Note 2) Earth, rather Earth/Luna, hasn't completely cleared its orbital path.  Google 2002 AA29 or 3753 Cruithne.
OK, one more time.  If it orbits a star and has a size sufficient to collapse it to a spheroidal shape - it's a planet.  Now, let us set up a descriptive system based on material and size:
S type - silicon crust - Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars
J type - gaseous - Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune
I type - icy - Pluto, Xenia, Sedonia, etc.
Modify the type the way star types a modified with alphanumerics for atmosphere, gravity, etc.
For instance, Earth could be a planet type SB1.  Silicon crust, breathable atmosphere, gravity =1.  Too gaia-centric? SNO32.

The possibility for puns is almost too great to resist!  Would the theory be a: Brane-teaser, Brane-storm, ...?  Check out David Drake's Lt. Leary series of books where starships use masts and sails in the Matrix to travel by Casimir energy!  Great military adventure in the style of the Hornblower books.  Make a fantastic movie!
I think our whole idea of a solar system is a bit limited. Earth is 1 AU from the sun and Pluto 40. However, the Sun's gravitational influence extends outward 50,000 to 100,000 AU. This makes it very likely that we will find not only other Pluto’s but other earth-, Neptune-, and even Jovian-sized worlds as well. These additional worlds may not have formed here in the traditional sense, but could have been captured as they floated by. It is not until we have telescopes like the massive ESO OWEL that we will be able to make an accurate inventory. I do l like the idea of categorizing planets but how about a list of primary and secondary planets. This is simpler and leaves out all the fancy “belt names” that I still don’t know how to spell myself. Maybe any spherical body (>700km) that “stands out” from the others in a given orbit can be primary planets but I think even that is too narrow and eccentric orbits seem to be much more common.
A planet should be defined as a body in orbit around a star with enough mass to form a spheriod body and its orbits perigee/apogee is no less than .75 (not sure if this excludes pluto, I could only find the mean distance). Or if you want to upset everyone... there are no planets.. we are all moons of our sun with some of the moons having moonlets.
ALL PLANETS SMALLER THAN PLUTO BUT LARGER THAN CERES SHOULD BECOME KNOWN AS PLANETOIDS (MY DEFINITION).
Leave it alone, already!
I'd like to see more astronomical efforts aimed at exploring those 200+ extrasolar planet sized objects currently observed and which (if any) may be located within their respective star's "Goldilocks Zone" - as is our Earth, for supporting life as we know it.
A planet should be any object with enough mass and matter to have a spherical shape (unlike an asteroid) and its own gravity, but not enough mass to start thermonuclear fusion, and orbits a star (not another planet) in its own, unique orbit (not shared with other bodies like the Kuiper Belt objects), regardless of the orbital path (circular vs. elliptical). A planet and a moon could be the same size. As long as they meet the above definition, the only difference would be what they orbit, not their size or mass.
My Definition of Planet

Planet: a celestial object having undergone shaping by internal gravity, which presents vertical internal differentiation, and which has never had an atmosphere capable of initiating nuclear fusion.

This definition excludes asymmetrical objects like most asteroids (basically amorphous chunks of rock), and also excludes brown dwarfs etc. However, asteroids like Ceres (which has been shaped by gravity and is probably internally differentiated) would be listed as planets, as would all of the spherical moons in our solar system, including our own moon and those such as Europa, Titan, etc.

One may argue that these objects are not really sufficiently similar to be addressed with the same nomenclature, but one must admit that they do all have these three things in common; each has undergone geologic shaping and internal differentiation due to its own gravity, and each lacks an atmosphere capable of initiating a fusion reaction.

For further typological purposes, we could refine our definition somewhat by offering "categories" of planet-hood. A planet only orbiting a central sun is a primary planet, one in orbit around another planet is a secondary. Some objects satisfying my criteria may not be in orbit around anything (see below) in which case we can categorize them as tertiary planets. We could further categorize them by how much gravity they exhibit, density, and/or atmospheric characteristics (whether it's got one, how dense it is, what it's made of, temperature, or perhaps more simply whether liquid water could exist there).

We could use Earth as a baseline for some of these other measures (gravity, atmosphere, etc).

My definition provides meaningful criteria for differentiating certain kinds of celestial objects. I would also like to point out that in the eventuality that our sun dies and is reduced to a white dwarf, it still fails to satisfy the criteria because it formerly had an atmosphere capable of initiating nuclear fusion. However, whatever planets survive the dissolution of our sun will still be planets as they wander freely through space because my definition does not require that an object actually be in orbit around ANYTHING for it to be classified as a planet.
"Rules" are not defined by nature, but by human beings.  If the IAU defines Pluto to be a planet, then we'll call it a planet.  If it does not, then we'll call it a "minor planet," or whatever other name they can dream up for larger Kuiper Belt Objects.  A categorization has nothing to do with the size, shape, or formation process of a body, until we agree that it does.  It doesn't even exist until we agree that it does.  One thing is certain.  It makes no difference to nature what we call it.  If Pluto is defined as a planet, then we'll continue discovering "planets" for a long time.  It's impossible to estimate the number of larger Kuiper Belt objects out there.  Perhaps there are thousands or even millions.  It is a prospect that would be exciting, discovering a new planet every several months indefinitely, but we must draw the line somewhere.

However, I agree with the Jay from Arizona's opinion that the spherical-shape issue is an important one.  Personally, I think that the "minor planet" designation might be a good compromise.  It sets them apart from both the undisputed planets existing outside of belts, and planetesimals, which DO NOT have enough mass to pull themselves into spheres.
We do not call a shepherd moon a "moon," but a SHEPHERD moon, which undeniably sets it apart from a regular moon, which does not orbit in close proximity to a ring system.
Why shouldn't a moon be a planet? It is circular, and because it orbits another planet means that it also orbits the sun. And why can't a planet in the Kuiper belt just BE a planet in the Kuiper belt?
Lots of us need to find a job. I'd love a full-time position discussing this stuff.
I have a question regarding the speed of light and the age of the universe. Recent discoveries found galaxy clusters at about 10 billion years old. Thus 10 billion light years away. Well if it took 10 billion years for the light to reach us from the early years of the universe. Then how did we get so far out so fast (from the big bang) before the light from those clusters reached us.
I like the idea that a planet must orbit a star.
I also like the "sphere" constraint (thus requiring a threshold mass) on the definition of planet. Of course that would exclude every "planet" in the solar system, especially Saturn, whose rotational speed significantly elongates its equatorial radius.
The "object" must also be an object, not just a section of space or an area of luminosity.
I'd call a planet "a regular spheroid comprised of matter which produces gravitational effect, in circular or elliptical orbit about a star".
Thanks for your comments ... I let a couple of 'em run on a bit longer than usual, but I hope you'll stick with it. Jeremiah from Colorado, I wanted to say that I'm continuing to provide the daily links, and maybe our new practice of linking to the feature items of the day is leading folks to miss out on the fact that there are other (shorter) items posted in the course of a day. So I'll change that practice later tonight and see if it makes a difference.

I also cleared a question on the Big Bang... actually, scientists think the Big Bang happened about 13.7 billion years ago. A lot of people have the wrong idea about the Big Bang ... that it actually was a three-dimensional explosion that blew us out from some central blast point. Instead, I think of the Big Bang as the inflation of four-dimensional space-time in an extradimensional space. This is probably worth another thread, but for the time being, here are some links on the subject you might find interesting:

New study super-sizes the universe
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5051818/

Beyond the Big Bang
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6392268

What is the universe expanding into?
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3077398/
There are a number good ideas, many of them similar, but it still comes down to classifying what is a planet, and what is not. It's obvious we, as a world society, have become more sophisticated, articulate, and intelligent, in general. One item that caught my eye, that I think needs more thought was one of the discussions of life imitating art. We seem to be 'stuck' in trying to classify what is a planet because it's impossible to put together anything other than an extremely complex definition of what constitutes a planet. Instead why not put togther a planetary classification system that would provide a set of comprehensive definitions for all non-star space objects? It is very evident there is a significant amount of variability within our own solar system, and Kuiper Belt alone, not to mention what we may find as telescopes and space travel allow us to explore even further, that prevent us from simply defining 'what is a planet'.

I would propose we adopt a System of Planetary Classification that concisely and comprehensively defines all space objects. The few systems that I have looked at do not seem to have classifications for suns, and maybe the ones we currently have are adequate. They do provide definitions for the numerous type of space bodies within our solar system and Kuiper Belt, and even some that we might consider works of imagination. If you perform a search of 'planetary classification' you end up with numerous sites, some of which follow a Star Trek genre of classification. I would propose we start with the Star Trek classification as a basis and expand/contract the system to fit our needs.

Below are a couple of examples or the 'starting point':

http://www.sttff.net/planetaryclass.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_planet_classifications#Class_S_and_T_Ultragiants
Just a note to compliment you on the new format.  This is one of the best sites for an intelligent person, yet!  Well done!
I am seven years old and I am future astronomer.  I believe that a planet should be at least 2000 km in diameter. Anything smaller should not be considered a planet. Anything larger, no matter where it is located, should be consider a planet.
Most discussions attempting to define 'categories of things' are by their nature based upon a false premise.  The universe is much more fuzzy than firm.   Typically the qualities of things occur along a spectrum, not in discrete types.  Yet our hungry monkey-mind persists: what is the pattern? - which is the 'right' pigeon hole?! In this case, what is a planet.

Clearly there are many non-stellar bodies in our solar system (and others beyond), sometimes in groupings but often with overlapping qualities. Of the 'planets' we at present mostly agree on (Mercury through Neptune), there are a broad range of planets.  For example, Jupiter and the Earth are very different, yet each are close to the heart of what we feel a planet is.  

What are Planets? Perhaps a more pointed question is 'What is NOT a Planet'  This debate shows neither are simple questions.  Objects are felt to be planets (or not) based on a fuzzy calculus of their qualities and behavior, location, size, shape and mass.  People place different weight on these aspects.  

Imagine Saturn's MOON Titan were instead located in the middle of the asteroid belt, had absorbed (or ejected) most of the asteroids there, and (perhaps) captured a few of them into orbits around itself, there would be little debate on whether or not Titan was a planet.  The Greeks would have been able to see the PLANET Titan with their naked eyes.  They would have watched it 'wander' across the ancient night sky.  Sure, it would be a bit more volatilized being closer into the sun, but Bode would have been happy.  As things are, Titan in orbit around the PLANET Saturn is a MOON.

Here is my effort to define the broad category of Planet.  Planets: (all of them) are sub stellar objects that through gravitational self-collapse, have achieved a spheroid form.  All the other irregular bodies, aggregate gravity piles, flotsam, jetsam and shards, are not any sort of ‘planet’. Typically, Planets:

  are highly internally differentiated
  have semi-stable orbits around their star(s)
  stay close to their local stellar ecliptic
  gravitationally dominate their orbital sector
  if  massive may have many moons
  have atmospheres &/or a magnetospheres

IF a newly discovered candidate for Planet-hood had ALL of these qualities, you can open up the history books and start re-writing.  If it had only SOME of these typical qualities, there would be increasing debate on it's status.  If it had NONE of the typicals, some diehards might still insist on Planetary-dom, but would never be able to convince anyone to agree.  Here is an informative article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_planet

Of the broad range of planemos presently semi-understood,  Here is my 'vote' for…
4 Types of Major Planets: (w/Prototypical Bodies & Rough Mass Ranges):

Terrestrial: N/Fe & silicates, ~.05 EMass ~5 EMass
Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars

Ice Dwarves: icy-tiny ~.1 PlutoMass ~ 10 PlutoMass
Pluto, Charon, Quaoar, Sedna, Xena, (formerly) Triton

Ice Giants: icy-big ~.1 NeptMass ~ 10 NeptMass
Neptune, Uranus

Gas Giants: gassy-big ~.1 JupMass ~ 10 JupMass
Jupiter, Saturn

Perhaps one day soon, there will be a Hertsprung/Russle diagram for Planets.  Won’t that be nice.

jonathan jay lives inside the collapsed caldera of an extinct volcano on a tropical island. He is 40.
Can anyone direct me to a site with photos of the minor planets, i.e., photos of areas where minor planets reside?
J. Servis, you'll definitely find this page interesting: http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/InnerPlot.html ... the Minor Planet Center in general is a good place for info on the minor planets: http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/mpc.html ... and "Nine Planets" has info and pics of some of the bigger minor planets: http://www.nineplanets.org/smallbodies.html
While I like the recent definition from the IAU, the one thing missing is the idea of an atmosphere.  All 9 of the objects currently classified as planets have one, and I believe if that requirement were added to the IAU's definition, I would have no problems with it.
I like the idea of a 12 planet solar system. This was the way it was envisioned by the ancients thousands of years ago. We should keep the Greek/Roman names going for new planets (Xena is welcome in Greek) and save names like "Elvis" and "Sagan" for another system.  We could also use names of Egyptian gods as well, such as "Isis", "Thoth" and "Horus." Planets must be round in shape
Much of the remaining nomenclature issue is pretty much based on whether we keep Pluto in the listing or not.  Okay, then, so here's a thought:

+ Leave "planet" to public domain, whatever bodies are significant to the (most local?) populace.  

+ Use another term for scientific purposes to define the gravitationally-rounded bodies, like planetoid or planemo.  

+ Use one of the suggested classification systems to describe its type: rocky, icy, gassy, whatever.

+ If an object qualifies as a planetoid/planemo, but orbits another -- with barycenter inside the body of the latter -- call it a planemonic moon  ("planemon"?) or secondary planetoid, something like that.  (As differentiated from the primary-secondary-tertiary system already mentioned.  Unless a moon orbits a moon, there's no tertiaries.)

Anyways, that's my take.

Steve, Please ditch the psuedo-elitist, revisionist jargon.  The 'Moon' in English is...the Moon. To add a new name from another language (Luna) and pretend that that is the name is simply revisionism.  Also, the idea of promoting Charon to a 'planet' because the barycenter is between the two objects (Pluto and Charon) is ludicrous and fails to account for the fact that the barycenter between the Sun and Jupiter is also between the two (does that make Jupiter a star? NO!).

Other neologisms like 'planemo,' especially when used in the overlapping sense below, add unnecessary confusion to the issue.

As for 'roundness, the Earth is naturally spherical due to gravity; any bulge is caused by centripetal/centrifugal forces due to spin.  

I would define planets as any objects in orbit around a star that are not massive enough to be a star but massive enough to assume a nearly spherical shape due to gravity.  Moons or satellites orbit planets, not stars.  Planets could then be divided into 'regular' and 'irregular'...'regular' planets, regardless of size, orbit in nearly circular, nearly ecliptic, orbits.  Irregular or minor planets (i.e. Ceres, Pluto, Xena) do not.  Use of the term 'classical' is a misnomer (Ceres was discovered before Neptune!).



How do you define roundness?  Earth isn't perfectly spherical. I can't come up with a definition that isn't human-centric.
It might be easier, and more universal, to measure mass.  Consider a planemo system that has "cleared out" its orbit to the extent that it outmasses its co-orbitals.  It should be called a planet, no matter how round it is.  Of course, this requires a definition of "orbital path".  Perhaps a toroid with a radius that reaches the nearest gravitational balance point with the nearest massive body.
(Note 1) By planemo system, I mean a body and its moons or possibly a double planet.  I would define a large moon as a planet if it and its more massive partner orbit each other around a point that is between the two.  The "fulcrum" for the Earth-Moon pair is some 400 miles below the surface of the Earth, so Luna is a moon by this definition.  Pluto and Charon would be a double planet, if they outmassed the rest of the Kuiper Belt (not).
(Note 2) Earth, rather Earth/Luna, hasn't completely cleared its orbital path.  Google 2002 AA29 or 3753 Cruithne.
Steve Moniz, Leavenworth, KS (Sent Thursday, June 08, 2006 11:49 AM)


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