Sorry but there is no evil and there is no good. If you were to remove humanity from the world all you have is nature. Man creates Evil and creates Good without man neither can exist.

That's pretty illogical and anthropomorphic. You "see" good and evil? No, you see acts and judge them good or evil. Stop Judas from kissing Jesus in the garden and you prevent Christianity. Was Judas good or evil?

An apocryphal story: an astronomer tells a bishop his religion is "the Golden Rule, simply the Golden Rule." The bishop replies that his astronomy is "twinkle twinkle little star".

im agnostic but it does seem reasonable to think that "heaven" is constructed by people who are afraid of, or can't fathom, not existing.....i think heaven was first made up by a cave person parent trying to ease their child's mind when the child started crying b/c they were never going to see their dead relative again

Good comments.

*like* :)

He's just mad because he is a cripple. He's angry at God because of the condition he's in. but that's OK, when he dies he will meet God and give an account of his life.

What did he do to deserve this treatment by god? What has a child done to be born with deformities? Your god would be hateful at the very best of times. God is imaginary.

Jon-Garrett

He's just mad because he is a cripple. He's angry at God because of the condition he's in. but that's OK, when he dies he will meet God and give an account of his life.

Why do you say that when in fact he is going to use the money left on his eyes to pay the ferryman to cross the river Styx and have his soul wieghed by the mighty Anubis.

But I guess different strokes for different folks ^_^

Our next mental exercise should be to view current day business practices through the same bronze-age lense!

Ready.....GO!

one cannot be angry at something one does not believe in.

Why is this news? This is just common sense.

I wonder how God feels about you calling people "cripples"?

60 second Christianity:

There is an all powerful, invisible being in the sky who controls everything that ever happens and knows everything you do. If you mess up, even if you did not know you were messing up, the invisible being will send you to burn forever in a lake of fire after you die. However, the invisible being loves you. About 2000 years ago, the invisible being impregnated a human woman. She gave birth to the child of the invisible being. The child was eventually nailed to a cross and died. However, he came back to life and rose into the sky to sit forever next to his father (the invisible being). One day in the future, he will come back to earth and judge everyone on earth. Then the world will end.

Actually, most fairy tales are more plausible.

He's absolutely correct. Heaven and Santa Claus - both big fairy tales. Now if one chooses to believe the whole God and heaven fairy tale, that's their right. But they don't have the right to pass laws based on religion. Why is that so hard for religious zealots of any stripe to understand?

This is just people in religion getting mad when a highly accredited scientist states his views on religion but don't mind when they interject theologies into science .

Poor soul. God is everywhere. Nothing is accidental when it comes to the universe. To say so is to leave everything to chance, and no one anywhere has ever had this much luck. But, each of us are allowed to make that decision for ourselves. I for one, do not want to trust in something, then be wrong. I think I'll stick with God, Christ and the Bible.

there are currently no fewer than 10,000 different religions being practiced on earth....... I love how people sit & talk about "god" as if the particular culture in which THEY were born & raised is whats in question here. a clear demonstration of the childish mindset of humanity at large.

I still can't believe people can actually entertain the ridiculous notion of gods and so forth...shows we are just a step or two past cavemen dancing around fires dressed in deerskins. pitiful.

Good and Evil are not based on actions, they are based on intentions. From those intentions actions arise and our perception of those actions is the heart of this matter. We don't need to know anyone's intentions to deem something evil, however.

Is a lion stalking a human Evil? If someone's foot had been cut off by the prop of a boat is the shark evil? I would personally answer no to these kinds of questions. Similarly I personally do not feel it is evil to hunt and eat a deer or some other animal.

To me "good" and "evil" are clearly human concepts, but I would also say that I have had experiences that I can only describe as "spiritual". Whether my mind created a circumstance suitable to allow those experiences or not, I can not know at this point. But logically I am forced to examine my connection to the universe, is it merely atoms of matter coming together to create this body or is there something more? For me the incredible nature of sentient thought is enough to suggest the possibility that there is a deeper connection between myself and the Universe that surrounds me. I feel connected to each of you in a way that is deeper than just a comment on an article on the internet. It's not a "spiritual" connection, it's just a simple realization that I am here and you are there and together we exist.

But does that mean anything happens after death? It's difficult to say. My initial logical reaction is to say No, there is nothing after death. But then the fact that energy can only be transformed comes back and creates doubt. How are the electrical impulses in our brains transformed upon death?

The existence of Jesus Christ and the fact that he rose from the dead is undeniable. It is as much historical fact as the fact that George Washington lived and walked on earth. People saw Jesus Christ after he rose from the dead, and therefore were willing to die spreading the gospel. If it had been a hoax, no one would have been willing to die for that, either thousands of years ago or today. It is simply up to you to believe or not. Everyone will stand before God one day, and you will have to tell him whether you accepted what Christ did for you on the cross.

One day people will find out if they are a heaven and hell but be to late then' god is like the wind you can feel it but not see it !!!!

mark. those are good things to live by but the only way to heaven is by the blood of jesus christ. you must believe and ask god to forgive you because you are a sinner and that jesus died for your sins. we are all sinners. hawking isn't as smart as he thinks he is. he has suffered here on earth and if he dosen't change his way of thinking he will suffer unimaginary pain in the after life. i am not afraid of the dark!!!!!

Hey...no matter what you think,,Sat is coming...May 21st...You know...THE END OF THE WORLD !! If there is a heaven..you will have to fight the Zombies to get there .,..if there is not a heaven,,...OH WELL !!

Don't hate on me !!! that is what the Bible says !!!! If you believe a bunch of ignorant old wives tales...written 300 yrs after the death of Jesus...It has some good stories..but written by MAN...no...written by IGNORANT MAN...Look at the beliefs of the time..and you worship this book,,,

Sat..May 21st...18:00 hrs...Gonna ruin the week end, isn't it ???? Hawking is right...

I'm not defending or refuting any particular ideology here, but I am defending sound logic and refuting things that aren't. It's bad logic to say that humans created the idea of heaven to escape the idea of death. In other words, the position is that heaven is a psychological construct what we project to escape a fear. There are two reasons why this is bad logic. First, the argument can be used against itself. It can be just as soundly argued that the disbelief in God is on the same footing. If there's a God and I don't believe in him, then I could end up in hell. Therefore, the disbelief in God comes with a disbelief in hell. Getting rid of the idea of hell serves the same purpose as creating the idea of heaven. Both can be argued as psychological constructs (belief in heaven or disbelief in hell) projected to escape a fear (non-existence after death or eternity in torment). If you argue from the grounds of creating heaven (or un-creating in the case of hell) based on a psychological need, the same argument can be used on the people who don't believe in God.

The second reason why it's poor logic is that it is based on a tautology, or circular reasoning. The most basic example of a tautology would be asking someone who is in an argument how they know that they are right and the other person is wrong. If they said, "I'm right, because he's wrong," and the interviewer said, "Well how do you know he's wrong?" and the person followed up with, "He's wrong, because I'm right" - that's a tautology. Now look at what Hawking is claiming (paraphrased), "There is no heaven, because it's only an idea that humans have created" "Well, Dr. Hawking, how do you know that it is something that humans have created." To which Dr. Hawking may well reply, "Well, isn't it obvious. Humans must have created it, because it doesn't otherwise exist." Circular reasoning. He's presenting no other evidence to support his claim (other than what was described above, also as poor logic).

Dr. Hawking can believe what he wants, as can we all, but it would much more reassuring if he used logic to buttress his beliefs.

What if he is wrong, and God does exist?

Better think about that.

Sarah: well actually billions of people do not believe in your God so it's hardly "undeniable". To you obviously--that's what you believe and were taught--others believe something else--a different God--just as strongly--and still others like Mr. Hawkins believe life can be explained without a belief in God. If you are so sure you are right and billions of others wrong--that's your perogative...but would your God approve of your arrogance in assuming only you and followers of your religion know the truth?

I have no idea whether there is heaven, hell, purgatory, a wheel of life, reincarnation, or nothing. And neither does anyone else. They may have faith, but they cannot have knowledge. You can choose to live your life as an arrogant, hateful poser, or with some care, humility and love. You get to choose. I do believe there are some that have no spark of the "spirit", those psychopaths that whatever the end should never have been here nor never return. If there is a God, I choose to think of him as compassionate, not hateful and vengeful. If there is no God, then I still choose to live my life as I was taught by good parents and by the examples of basic decency around me which allow me to experience the joy that having life can bring, along with being able to bear the sorrows. Either way I am here and to say that without God all is nil means that my children, grandchildren, all the kindness I have known and the hatefulness sometimes bestowed are not teaching me something about myself and others.

What a sad vision most of you have of your life and the world. My guess is at least 90% of you are younger than 60 years old. Wait.

It seems to me that to say, "there is no heaven", based on an assumption, one would have to prove

there is no heaven. If you can't prove your assumption, then any conclusion you base on that assumption is unproven as well. It's amazing to me how many intelligent people do this sort of thing i.e., to say, "there is no God, there is no heaven, miracles don't happen".

If we take a look of the history of religion we can see far more bad than good (if any). Religion is just a big lie, a made up story to control people. They probably killed more people than all the wars put together. Unfortunately, there are still too many of those religiously brain-washed individuals wondering around trying to convert others. Killing each other over whose god is the right one. These are the descendents of many generations of the ignorance and weak minded. They still carry on the work of suppressing others knowledge. The idea here is that the less you know the easier it is to control you.

"Send your dollar to Jesus Christ. The more you send the more you will be saved".

Actually, this is not surprising that Hawking would say something like this. Carl Sagan was an atheist scientist, too, and said things like this back in the 1980s as I recall. But, there are just as many scientists who believe in Intellectual Design and a Divine Creator. Always interesting to hear both sides.

If there's no afterlife then I'm going to be really pissed when I die.

Headlamb: you "don't want to trust in something and then be wrong"...so therefore you "believe in god, christ, and the bible"?

I don't follow your logic at all. If you want to believe in something and not be wrong, then believe in science and the world you inhabit that sits right there in front of you. I would think the last thing people who are afraid of being hoodwinked would believe in would be god.

To each their own. Some believe, some don't. Rather than attack another person's faith in the intangible or their hope for redemption after death (or lack of faith thereof), we should instead respectfully agree to disagree on what each holds dear to themselves and not criticize those we do not agree with. It's the pressing of one's beliefs onto other people (religious, scientific, agnostic or otherwise) that strikes me as offensive. We are individual thinkers and it's our unique character and mind that makes us who we are. If we judge and berate others for their religious (or atheistic) views are we any better than the terrorists who claim murdering in the name of their god as a religious and justifiable act?

he should be right there is no evidence that there is and ever was a god, all people who have a god believe that they have something to fall back on but that is just a lie/fairytale. the only way to see whats on the otherside is to do it yourself. therefore GOD IS A LIE!!!!!! and you where fooled.

Ok then. With no God what came first the Chicken or the
egg. Don't you notice your soul looks
out your eyes to see an aging body your soul feels no physical pain. You lay on
your death bed staring out from you old body. Your soul neither tired nor sick and
you really believe that soul is going to shut off and die with your body that
is too funny. Look I can't see the FM radio waves that play the music I love doesn't mean there are not there.

I can explain the wind, but an explanation for "god" eludes me. Even if I wanted god to exist REALLY BAD, that alone wouldn't make it true. God either exists or he doesn't, and there is no proof either way. But the existence of every other known being or thing, and I mean EVERY other person, place or thing there is, can be defined, explained, proven, measured and/or viewed in some manner...except god. That lack of proof is explained away by some as necessary for "faith" to have any relevance. So, it's either that, or he just doesn't exist at all and there is thus no possible proof in the first place.

If you believe the former...then we just don't have much to talk about, but I hope your faith makes you happy anyway. In that sense, at least, true faith may not be a complete waste of time and energy for many believers. I can see how faith is so important to so many people...much more important than the actual existence or non-existence of God himself. Believing may have some real-world relevance even if God himself does not.

Why are we putting so much stock into what Dr. Hawking thinks on a subject in which he is not an expert? Let Dr. Hawking believe what he wants. He has said similarly inciteful things before as if they are fact, not his own personal theories. Think about his theory of spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing.....

Dr. Hawking can posit these theories because he knows that we are so far from proving them, that he will be long gone and forgotten by the time we can prove or disprove the origins of the universe. Furthermore, his theories do not disprove the existance of God. At absolute best all he can do is describe how God might have made the universe.

Dr. Hawking, your contributions to our body of knowledge are many. Your contributions to this subject are pitiful. I expect more from someone of your intelligence.

re: to "sarah"...where are you getting this idea that Jesus is "a historical fact"? there is absolutely no evidence that Jesus ever existed, any more than there is any "evidence" of king Arthur or Merlin...these are legends passed down over centuries, and people like you have been indoctrinated in their "truth" since childhood...no offense to Christians, but your "truth" is no more a historical fact than Arthur's pulling Excalibur from a stone...if believing this fairy tale gives your life meaning, more power to you, but please dont confuse legends with facts

Everyone has their own relationship with God....... except for you who do not believe. how sad that is, for Christ will say on that day............... I do not know you.

There is a heaven by the fact of there being Good and Bad. Positive and Negative. Why would either exist on a natural scale of being. This planet did not just poof out of a just, Oh lets put it here. Evolution even shows a positive tone in that if there were no higher power, would not eradical erosion , which is a lessening of, become prevalent of positive over negative, good over evil.

Like the rest of us, Stephen Hawking has no basis for knowing one way of the other. He has stated that it is not possible for him to know or fathom what existed prior to the Big Bang, and it stands as corollary that neither can he know nor fathom anything that exists outside the boundaries of that which resulted from the Big Bang. Though we call it the 'universe', it is an area of finite dimension that has only been around for a few billion years, and that more likely than not represents an rather insignificant portion of the whole of Creation.

I am not a proponent of organized religion however I do believe in a higher power based on my own personal experiences. I will not attempt to force my beliefs (or lack thereof) on others because we are all shaped by our experiences. My greatest wish is that even if you do not believe in a higher power that all could live their lives with the simple tenet of "Do No Harm."

Beyond that I simply would rather live my life as if there is a God, die and discover there is not, than live my life as if there is no God, die and discover there is (and that I have managed to piss him/her off).

Mark, thank you.

@ANDRO: I am a Libertarian (Atheists are not really all that welcome amoungst conservatives). We don't side with either of the douchebag mainstream parties.

Although liberals are bigger whiners screaming for higher taxes on those that already pay 3x the tax of average taxpayer(setting aside the 50% that pays no tax that is of course) , hence bigger douchebags. Just stop penalizing the hell out of those of us that are actually capable of taking care of our own.

Getting back on topic...

Evolution is a bitch, just ask the slow antelope that has that cheetah bearing down on him. However sad his inevitable death will be - it help future antelopes and the planet as a whole. You don't see the other antelopes going back to be eaten in his place or save it.

Humans need to learn from this simple concept.

So many times I have gone out on a starry night and spent hours thinking about what we don't know about what is going on out there. I think you could put all of the supposed knowledge of those steeped in religion, and those steeped in science, and those steeped in humanism and fit it all into a thimble. I am but a speck of dust on another speck of dust on the edge of a galaxy that is but a small part of what we can now see with the best telescopes. What do I really know? And those who voice opinions can do nothing more than that-- voice opinions. I choose to believe there is something beyond this life. Am I a fool, afraid of the dark as whoever this guy is says I am? He is the fool to judge me and assign his fears to me.

Just a thought to those who bash science--grow up. If there is a God, he reveals many things however he chooses to reveal them.

And those who bash religion--grow up. I laugh at ignorance when I hear religion is the boogey man that starts all the wars and oppresses all of humanity. To my knowledge religion has had a hand in many wars--too many, but to assign blame to a majority of wars--foolish rhetoric. Which religion started the Punic Wars, or Assyrians, or Hittites, or Egyptians, or Babylonians, or the Roman conquests, or the invasion of the Huns or Goths, or Saxons, or the Greek wars, or the Napoleonic wars, or the Civil War in the US, or WWI, or WWII, or Vietnam, or Korea, the Mayan or Aztec conquests, or the Plains Indian wars. For the most part wars are started by power hungry men, or by ethnic and clan strife (Hatfields and McCoys type of thing), nationalism, etc. Evil men have used religion to exacerbate a nationalistic feeling, but the religion seldom initiates the conflict (Yes, I've heard of the Crusades and yes there have been terrible things done in the name of religion, but very few wars in comparison result from religious strife--yes I've heard of Northern Ireland too).

Despite the hammering religion takes, there has been some good come from it.

May I first say that evil done in the name of religion has for the most part been done by men and women who either did not understand the underlying tenets of their religions or tried to use the religion to further their personal gains. Those examples are replete through history. I’ll not deny that, but that does not mean that religions have not contributed to the well being of the world.

Many religions are involved in relief agencies around the world. People sacrifice time, money, and goods to help others in time of disaster. Red Cross—hmm I wonder why they used that symbol, or for that matter the Red Crescent? I wonder how those organizations began—not to mention religious relief agencies all over the world. Usually the religious communities respond much faster than the governments. New Orleans, Indonesia, Haiti.

Many devoted to religions spend their entire lives in service of others for little or no material gain. How many hospitals in your city were started by religious organizations? In my city just off hand, I think religious groups started 6 of the 8 major hospitals. Do hospitals do society any good? Not to mention the schools and universities. Religions founded probably 75% of the universities in the world. That is certainly a conundrum. Stupid people, believing in “comical delusions” founded institutions where higher education is taught.

Of course there are orphanages, homeless shelters, battered women’s shelters, soup kitchens, addiction recovery centers, food banks, employment centers. I don’t think I have listed them all, but that is probably sufficient.

All religions don't have clean hands, but those who believe and live the principles behind the dogma do, and have done since the beginning. It is hard to live the principles of a religion—any religion. Many profess to believe the doctrine, but don’t live it or live it fully. There is the rub isn’t it? How do you censure a religion for unacceptable practices by some members and not implicate them all?

Of course you probably think religions are obnoxious.

What? Did the Jehovah’s Witness have a gun in his left hand when asked if you wanted the pamphlet in his right hand? Or when you turned him down, did he simply say thank you and have a nice day?

Grow up all you self righteous pseudo intellectuals.

I, personally, don't want to be affiliated with any "God" who would fault me for using the great intellect he, she, or it provided me to come to the conclusion that, with so little evidence pointing towards the existance of a Supreme Being, and the existence of such a being creating a more difficult problem of existence than the problem he, she, or it is supposed to solve, Occam's Razor demands that I disbelieve in that deity. If "God" didn't want me to come to that conclusion, then "God" had better start making a bigger deal of his/hers/its existence.

Being that Science has a better explaination for existance than "invisible man in the sky thought us into being", I prefer to go with the more elegantly simple explanation of "Quantum Fluctuations" than trying to then explain how an invisible person could have possibly brought about everything with just a thought. Maybe it involved a wave of the hand too? *lol*

"Think about his theory of spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing....."

As opposed to God creating the heavens and earth in six days...from nothing.

@silverton. No, just as many scientists do not believe in a creator or "Intelligent Design." According to recent surveys, more than 60% of all scientists are atheists or agnostics, and the higher education they have the higher that percentage rises, and that's just on the creator question.

For Intelligent Design, the numbers are even worse, with less than 1 percent even considering it to be true.

People have been making claims about god, heaven, and religion for thousands of years, but nobody has ever actually proved any of them, and most of the time they've been proven dead wrong. Praying for sick people has been shown time and again to have no effect on how quickly they recover. Homosexuality is no more a choice than blood type. The sky is not a crystal dome that the stars and clouds hang from. This is the 21st Century. Mankind has walked on the moon, plunged to the depths of the oceans, examined the composition of the stars and taken their temperatures and unwoven the rainbow. It's time to put aside our rain dances and magic beads and see the universe for what it really is.

Pardon me if this has been posted earlier in this discussion. ISTM that a major irony in this discussion is that if Dr. Hawking (and all those folk who seem to agree with him) is right, he (and they) will never know it. OTOH, if all of us who believe that there is a Creator of all that exists and that there is life beyond death (call it 'heaven' if you like) -- if we are wrong, we will never know it.

I'm satisfied that both these 'positions' are assumptions that we believe to be either true or false; and we base our lives/behavior on which of those we assume/believe is true. Either way, we are acting in faith that our 'favored assumption' is true.

60 second Christianity:

Sorry, but you didn't even get halfway through your first sentence before making a collosal mistake about basic Christian teaching.

Free will is a findamental tenet.

Sarah,

You really need to get out a little more. In Vegas you can go see several fantastic magicians that make all kinds of things disappear. To the naked eye, you would believe that you just witnessed a miracle. Just like the people who still think that Jesus rose from the dead. Faith in God is for the weak minded, who can't face the ugly truth of their reality, a crutch, so to speak.

The day I believe in God is the day he comes to earth and shakes my hand, and satisfies every miracle that I ask of him. Until then, I'll continue living in the 'real' world instead of a hypothetical one that invokes faith in the intangible.

Well said therapsid.

And for those that say we should all just accept each others beliefs and not argue these points I would agree with you if those with "faith" did not find a way to cause so much harm from these beliefs. Agnostics or Atheists don't start wars to try and get people to stop believing. We don't make up hateful picket signs and try to hurt homosexuals or women who chose to abort a fetus because we think we know better than they do.

We realize what a pathetic waste of time all this is (after all, THIS life is our only one) and really we just wish YOU all could keep these beliefs confined within your own minds.

I believe in science and that there is more. To each his own. None of us know. As one who is not a follower of any particular religion I look at fact to give me answers. Several mediums have been studied by science and science can not discount what they are doing. Some of these acounts are quite intersting and they should also be looked at (and have) in lab study. Allison Dubois is one author/medium who has struck me as an interest between the many falsities. I look for truth. I see what athiests see and I see what the religious see. Ndes are interesting as well. There are several things interesting as top what happens when one dies. Some say there is no proof of an afterlife. Others say there is no proof against it. Both are correct. My favorite of the many fairy tales I've read. To each his or her own. It's wonderful that man have such inquisitive minds....

While scientists claim they can prove there is no God, they can't, all they can offer are theories. If people want to believe there is no God that's their right; but how come they feel the need to attack people who do believe? I do not hate people who try to deny God, I feel sympathy for them.

I'm surprised at the amount of fuss being created by all of this, but more surprised at the lack of logic behind most of the offensive comments being thrown around (by both sides). First, who said science and religion (true religion) are always at odds with each other? In the past, organizations of religion have been at odds with science, but there is little controversy between actual religion (as a philisophy) and science. Unfortunately, many people on both sides don't understand the difference between science and religion(fundamentalists, and anti-theists for example).

The goal of science is to explain HOW, WHAT, and WHEN as far as life goes. How is life created, how was the earth formed, how has evolution brought about the organisms we see today. What are the foundational building blocks for all things. When did the earth form, when did dinosaurs roam the earth, when did humanoids evolve- and so forth. Religion (once again, the idea, not organizations) is concerned with WHY and WHO. Why are we here, Who is behind all this?

They are two completely different aspects to the same thing, two different realms, and thus don't come at odds with another unless people decide to overstep the bounds of either science or religion. What does the color red sound like? What is taste of a C chord? What is the texture of the word 'and'? These are silly questions. You need to ask a question that is in the same realm or aspect as the object if you want a real answer (synaesthesiacs aside). The point of religious works (the Bible for example) is not show how the earth was created, but rather who was behind it. By the way, before anybody spouts off about the 7 day thing (or 7,000 years for that matter), stop basing yourself on your own understanding of the KJV version of the bible, as it is hard to understand elizabethan english anyways, let alone the translational errors- the 'creation' refers to 7 time periods of undefined length, thats all. The Bible is NOT meant to explain away every natural phenomenon, yet people try to use God as the answer when we don't understand some natural process. The result is a 'God of gaps' which becomes smaller and smaller as science is able to explain more and more. This is a misunderstanding by many, and only shakes their beliefs when these 'gaps' become smaller and smaller.

Anyways, looking at it this way, religion is concerned with spiritual things that are untestable by science. Review the scientific method if you're not familiar with it. Science is concerned with the temporal, physical things. So what if science says the big bang happened? Once again, this concerns the how and what, not why. Is God unable to work through natural methods? If God is all-powerful, would he be able to be thwarted and 'caught' by mere mortals? If God used the big bang and evolution, would that mean he is no longer God? These questions might be uncomfortable for both sides- some narrow minded people on both sides have given a bad image to both. As you can never scientifically experiment on spiritual things (needs to be observable, repeatable) no one can ever 'prove' the existence or non-existence of God or other such things. A lack of data does not mean something does not exist or occur, but simply that there is no data for either conclusion. That is the way it will stay. A belief in God is based on a personal, spiritual form of evidence, something you can't test.

As for the heaven part, unless someone dies (truly dies), comes back somehow, and tells me there was 'nothing over there' I simply can't accept the claim that there is no heaven. The only scientific way to prove such a claim (ignoring what i said about two different realms) would be to die and come back. It amazes me that even someone like Hawking would fall to the level stating something so obviously unprovable. We have an amazing shortage of dead people to answer the question, so until then, enough with the 'proof' it doesnt exist. Interestingly, the very limited amount of people that supposedly have come back from death, report that there is something else after, but that is something you will have to test with through spiritual means, not science.

Please people, let's avoid meaningless name calling and such.

It saddens me to think that after a lifetime of struggle with ALS, Mr. Hawking would choose not to believe in the possibility of an eternally restored body. Faith defies logic and reason. It is a fire in the soul that cannot be quenched.

Several points to respond to M Feinman:

1) Your version of the ends days is NOT what the Bible says.

2) The Bible was written over several thousand years all earlier than 300 years after the death of christ.

3) What is your basis for calling them "ignorant old wives tales" Were you there? Did you historically validate in any way that they were fiction?

It is understandable that some do not believe in what the Bible says and it is OK to refute what is in the Bible but, based on your comments, my sense is that you have not given the Bible a fair hearing

Ask yourself why over two billion people on the planet call themselves Christians. Was Jesus that good a liar or was He, just maybe, the Son of God?

It's hilarious to see people from both sides arguing over who is right about what comes after death when not one person in the history of mankind has ever lived to tell about it.

When I was young, some of the questions I asked the priest at Sunday school was, "If Jesus was the son of god, and god created everything (You know, heaven and earth and all that stuff), why didn't Jesus pass the word on that the earth was not the center of the universe? Why didn't god tell his son that the earth was not flat? Why didn't god tell Jesus to let us know that there were billions of galaxies out there each with billions of stars? And if the bible was written hundreds of years after the time of Jesus, how could they be sure any of the stories were true?

After school, the priest wanted a few words with my parents. He was not happy I was asking (logical) questions. On the ride home, my dad asked me what kind of questions I was asking? I told him, and as an inquisitive kid, asked him if he knew? He said did not, but I remember his smile, one I will never forget.

You see, my dad is not a religious man, but my mom is. I was sent to Sunday school (I'm assuming) to get some life experience, to learn to be open minded, to make a choice on my own. To get a different view of the world and the beliefs out there. It wasn't long after that, that I realized I did not fit in with that group, the religious group that is.

But you know what, I too introduced my kids to religion, the same as my parents, and let them make up their own minds. I have 3 kids, with one who believes in god, while the others do not. I'm fine with my decision as a kid, and also with my children's decisions in life concerning this topic.

Now, where I do have the problem, is anyone telling me I will rot in hell, or preach to me, or tell me I will one day need or want god. Sorry, that won't happen, and if you insist it will, or continue to try and push your beliefs on my, well, then I'd have to say back to you, "Kiss my a$$, you ignorant fantasy believing freak!"

I look at it this way, I don't go to church and spew my beliefs, of go to religious articles (threads) to voice my opinion of your beliefs. So why would anyone come to an article that they know doesn't interest them (or at least follow their beliefs) and start spewing their beliefs here?

blondeness032 - You say that science can't disprove God and that all scientists can offer are theories. What do you think belief in God is?! At best it's a hypothesis and no even close to what science would require for it to meet the basic requirements for being called a "Theory" by the definition of the scientific method. Plus, you can't disprove something that doesn't exist. Can you disprove giant walking evergreen trees or elves and faeries?! Does you inability to disprove them mean that they exist??! Vice-versa - we who don't believe in god feel sympathy for you for being in magic.

How refreshing. The voice of intelligence and reason. Religion is another ponzy scheme to collect money from paranoid people by filling them with the fear of hell. Pretty simple isn't it?

One day I was leaving work, and I noticed a butterfly, and the tint of blue on it's wings was so beautiful, I wanted to get a closer look. I have NEVER in my life seen such beautiful hues of blue ON ANYTHING!!!, but then it's underside was brown. For beauty like this CANNOT be by chance, and if we take the time to look, this unique beauty is all around us.

There's a song:

Who taught the sun where to stand in the morning, who told the ocean, you can only come this far, and who showed the moon where to hide til evening, whose Words alone can catch a falling star, now I know My Redeemer lives.............

This type of beauty isn't by chance!!!! It couldn't be!!!!

I feel sad for Mr. Hawking that he doesn't know this one thing.......GOD IS REAL!!!!!

"Wisdom is the principle thing, therefore get wisdom, and with ALL YOUR GETTING, get UNDERSTANDING"

with a mind like and life like his, one would think he would know God's grace.

I feel so sorry for this man. Not that he has a terrible disease, but that he has blinded himself from a loving God. To have no hope for a better place to go and live and be with those you love and a loving Savior is so sad. I guess if you dont believe in Jesus , heaven doesnt really have a meaning. Believe me ... heaven is for real. Maybe he should read the book by that name. Does he believe in hell? Hell is very real too. There has always been a plan for us from even before the world was made. God loves us so much that he gives us a choice to accept His gift that he gave us through His Son.My hope is that through all this knowledge that Stephen and all scientists that they see how awesome God is.

Christine - "Believe me ... heaven is for real" You're positive huh? You know something the rest of us dont then.

By reading AngryBusinessOwners antelope and cheetah theory, Stephen Hawking shouldn't even be here. We all should have let him just die off many years ago. Just imagine how much he may have received in disability and medicare payments before he made it big? Imnagine how much our insurance premiums have gone up over 49 years since Hawking has been racking his insurance company with claims to pay. Is he worth it? Would the world have been a better place had we not invested in his care when he was diagnosed at 21 years old or has even this "slow antelope" found a way to contribute to great things to the world without us just letting a cheetah eat him when he was first struck by ALS? Perhaps it is not so simple of a concept? Who gets to be the judge to determine who is worthy and may contribute great things to society and who is expendable? Hopefully not Angrybusinessowner. Anger has a way of clouding your judgement and rational thought processes.

it is sad, if he doesn't get to put on the "incorruptible body" that's immune from disease such as his

Basically not an impossible statement. Its also possible there's a heaven. If you say you know either way, you are lying, pure and simple. Faith is one thing. Plugging your ears and screaming LALALA at the top of your lungs is another.

Too many people in this blog want to deny that Christ existed without any evidence to support themselves. There are other documents besides the bible that support He existed. There were secular writers of that time that wrote about Him and were mostly against Him. So, if He didn't exist, why would you write things against Him? You wouldn't because He wouldn't have existed and He wouldn't have been a threat to the culture. Many scholars, including atheist acknowledge that Christ existed. They just say He is not God. The problem with that is there are only three possibilities if Christ existed. One, He was a liar. Two, He was crazy. Three He is God incarnate. The choice is yours.

To me, it's a far greater stretch to think something as complex as the world, and the universe in which it is situated, was an accident.

I wish it were true that the actual greatest thinkers on a subject got all of the attention. Having studied physics, I can assure you that Hawking is about number 15 on a list of the greatest living physicists, and he hasn't done anything groundbreaking since the 1970's. As a philosopher, Hawking doesn't even rank because he hardly understands the subtleties of the subject. So, most any professor of philosophy would just laugh at his proclamations on God and the afterlife. Hawking is a first rate physicist and a truly second rate philosopher who buys into scientific materialism hook line and sinker. It's not a very sophisticated viewpoint and it was stated more incisively hundreds of years ago. Too bad so many people see him as a kind of guru.

Renee Love-

Your making a quintessential false equivalency that religious people love to make and that's to make it an either or choice between teleology and chance. In fact, there is another option which perfectly explains the butterfly much more elegantly and rationally than design and that is evolution, which gives the ILLUSION of design. Sorry, but your argument has been thrashed by the empirical evidence. It's best just to call your belief "faith" rather than use really really crappy shoddy logic to make an argument. It makes infinitely more sense to say, "I believe even though it's absurd to have such a belief" than to fail hard with the "chance or design" argument.

STMILLER... yes I know that I know, that I know, Heaven is for real. Just Read your Bible. Jesus said that he would go and prepare a place for us so where He is, so will we be also. Heaven isnt a fairy tale it is a reward for the Saints of God. Its where Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father. I could go on... It is my comfort, that one day I'll look into my Savior's eyes. Do you have this reassurance? Maybe you should read the book"Heaven is For Real" Google it and you'll find it

Believing in GOD is a matter of faith. Anyone who claims they "know" doesn't know how to think. Explaining the universe without GOD may be exactly what your GOD intended. If HE chose evolution as part of creation what gives you the right to claim science is false. When you get right down to it, scientific theory is also a matter of belief. You may be able to prove things to be false but you can only believe you have the truth.

Intelligence is a measure of how much you know that you don't know. Why make an assertion that others believe in fairy tales when you yourself know that that is all we really have. Sorry Stephen, believe what you will but don't pretend to "know" the "truth".

I would like to point out that he has said himself that he's not affraid to die. He was diagnosed with ALS at 21 and was not expected to live past 30. So for the 40 years since then (he's almost 70) he's been prepared to die. He readilly accepts it more than most of us ever will.

I found heaven on earth!

Stephen Hawking is a bitter old man :) Brilliant but still somehow damaged emotionally due to his illness. He is very difficult to get along with and yes, I know someone who formerly worked with him.

sarah - where exactly is that written down? let me guess, one source? your oft-revised bible? it's convenient that he was raised from the dead, so there are no bones for those of us who are unable to believe the words of ONE book from approximately 2,000 years ago to be able to dig up and examine... i don't claim to be an expert, by any means, but i do know that if the existence of jesus was scientifically proven (more than just a reference to a guy with the same name living in that area, who could just as well have been osama bin laden's great great great grandpa), then don't you think that would have made even a LITTLE splash in the international media??

DB8484

The Mayan and Aztec conquests where used entirely religious based. They both had a blood-based religion and they needed as many as human sacrifices as possible, in order to make the crops grow.

Good and Evil are really up to what we decide is right and wrong and what society decides as right and wrong. And basically, if anybody knows what living near-death for long periods of time it would be Hawking.

Believe with what you want to believe people, nobody has returned from Death(as of yet), thus we cannot know.

So he doesn't believe in heaven. Does he believe in hell? He better. Because he's heading there in a handcart.

Why is it that someone with such great intellect is also such a stiffling ignoramus regarding the existence of a Divine Creator (God). Leaving aside Christianity-and the many recorded miracles of Jesus Christ-which otherwise given the entirity of The Old Testament and The New Testament and all that has followed for the last two thousand years would be by far and away the largest conspiracy theory of all time, let's just examine physics.

Now as any HS student can tell us, the Law of Conservation of Mass (which is scientifically undeniable) states that matter can not be 'created' from nothing. Matter can be rearranged, occur as a solid, liquid, or gas, and in the case of animate objects grow to form new matter. But it is impossible for there ever to have matter spontaneously appear out of nothingness.

This simple fact belies the entire fact that we could be here without Divinity. Because our physical universe could otherwise never had a beginning. It takes quite an obstinant egghead not to be able to wrap one's mind around that simple tidbit.

Oh well, at least he'll never be cold. Thirsty yes, but cold no. Enjoy the eternal barbeque Hawk.

mark 3140636... you seem to be a wise individual. unfortunately Mr. Hawkings must have been upset with the creator of the human race, we didn't just poof! and fall out of a gorilla's vagina and become the human race. also the bible speaks of men who were giants such as Goliath whom David slew, and some of the most fascinating history derives from Israel as well as the skeletal remains of huge skulls which lead to the scientific theory of evolution... Consider the dinosaurs they were destroyed by an extinction level event. although with modern science the human race can be traced back to a date. but in the word of God, Genesis states that in the beginning, the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep, which appeared much like the aftermath of a great explosion... some biblical scholars may conclude that this was the event that God used to destroy the dinosaurs and the human like critters that live in that day. which is why we find fossils of strange beings... but as for heaven it must exist if not than God would be a lair and thats impossible, this all leads to free will and faith. also the bible does speak of dragons in the book of Job..at any rate for an intelligent person who gazed up towards the heavens and said there is no God this makes him a fool...Einstein said there is a supreme being and we will answer to him, also he said all things are relative which is true in 1 way or the other since all things were made by God than all things will have a signature that is similar DNA but hell is real and the word says it is within the earth, and its is enlarging her self... if time was based on the life and death of Jesus. than he is the answer seek and he shall find knock and it shall be opened unto you...if we do nothing we go to hell. this is due to the adamic curse and we all inherit this sin its in our blood but Jesus became our sin and it died with him he paid the way... all we must do is confess unto him that we acknowledge that we are sinners and confess our sins to him through prayer and he is just and able to forgive according to your faith...repent and believe the gospel

Phillip - I can disprove the existence of a soul in two words - brain damage. If mind body dualism exists and there is a "ghost in the machine" why does brain damage change a person radically? Maybe it should be called "soul damage"? If a soul can exist without the body, which is the essential premise for "life after death", then why is the brain necessary? Would not the rest of the components (heart, lungs, etc) be the only necessary ingredients for an "animating spirit" breathe into life into a body?

It seems incredibly apparent to me that consciousness is the product of a highly complex organ that's evolved over a zillion years since consciousness can be radically altered by damage to said organ.

Faith is believing that which we cannot know or prove for certain as reality! I envy on the one hand all people who have faith in a God! They are secure in their faith and it makes their lives much more fulfilling and, I believe, happier. On the other hand I loath the fact that they most always want to "push" their beliefs onto others or to judge others as less worthy, for their lack of faith. The latter feeling is croping up entirely too much in our political arena in the United States!

Sad to see someone so intelligent diminish himself with such tripe. He of all people should know you cannot draw such absolute conclusions with no proof - one way or another. Professing there is no heaven is just as fanatical as professing there is. Life is a mathematically impossibility, even of just calculated on a cellular basis - existence is illogical, interesting that such a renown physicist fails to realize or acknowledge that.

Faith requires the ego to be surrendered, and arrogance is the #1 hurdle. I don't get how "non-believers" decide "believers" choose to believe in God because they are just afraid of non-existence. Why would nothingness be frightening? I suppose it must be frightening for them, and they assume everyone else must share their fears and impose them on others? That's arrogance coupled with ignorance; deciding you know how someone else chose their faith.

From the posts, it is clear that MFeinman has no idea what is actually in the Bible. And the so called "Dr" in the thread that claims religion is as primitive as cavemen...that may be true. But so is hunger, thirst, and sex - and they are still pretty popular these days. Spirituality is a natural quest for any human being, wherever they end up. Mark - I like your story about questioning your church as a child, and I think that is healthy. I did think your questions were pretty simple to answer and not sure why anyone would be threatened by them. I think it is good for kids to grow up in church, as long as they are given the freedom to make their own conclusions, like your parents did.

It's amazing to see that any Christians or religious person on here gets collapsed within the blinking of an eye, we're obviously the minority on here.. With that said, all of you athiest go to hell, you go to hell and you die. Kidding (an old South Park reference) But seriously not one atheist/scientist or religious person can prove or disprove the existence of God or Heaven. But anyone who does say it on here, says it like it's fact, your delusional. I personally believe in both God and Heaven, but unlike what most atheist in here would assume, I believe in it because of my own personal experiences and the way I see the world and universe., not because I'm stupid and don't know any better. Science will never prove there is no God, all science can do is show how things happen or how things work. It personally reinforces my belief in God when I see what new discoveries science comes up with. It also amazes me to see things beyond our reasoning or reach for that matter. I know for science there has to be proof and a way to test something to show its validity. But what science doesn't understand its just put on a shelf until it can be understood. As an example of that would be the spirit world. I've had personal experiences that show and prove to me that there is something beyond this life. For anyone to have ever watched Ghost Adventurers or Ghost Hunters you see that something else is going on. (I can already see someone comment to this, "You actually believe the crap you see on that show? Its all a lie and camera tricks" BS.) Something is out there and the veil between this world and theirs is getting thinner and anyone with the time and energy who doesn't believe should take a look at it sometime. It might change your opinion on what happens to us after this life. This doesnt prove or disprove Heaven but it does show something else is beyond this life. But that's just my opinion.

'

McLovin-1519009Restored

I wonder how God feels about you calling people "cripples"?

60 second Christianity:

There is an all powerful, invisible being in the sky who controls everything that ever happens and knows everything you do. If you mess up, even if you did not know you were messing up, the invisible being will send you to burn forever in a lake of fire after you die. However, the invisible being loves you. About 2000 years ago, the invisible being impregnated a human woman. She gave birth to the child of the invisible being. The child was eventually nailed to a cross and died. However, he came back to life and rose into the sky to sit forever next to his father (the invisible being). One day in the future, he will come back to earth and judge everyone on earth. Then the world will end.

Actually, most fairy tales are more plausible.

I like this one too.. Although it has changed over time, it always changes from year to year. But at one time, hundreds of millions of years ago, but now perhaps 4.5 billion years ago some event happened.. A cosmic Egg, a singualr point of mass, exploded into being , from non being. This explosion of non life matter expanded and became the Universe. Things start to appear, like stars, and gases, anti matter is scarce, but all these other things start to pop up. Then the non living matter somehow turns into living matter. Then the Living matter, and the gases and the right conditions zapped a primordial soup of goo, into simple life forms. These life forms were complex already being full of dna, which is abundant information. It came from nothing, nothing designed this complex thing, it just happened. Then the cells gained information or laterlally mutated , and some how they turned into little organisms of life. And the little creatures turned into more and more complex creatures, and then they here we are today. What a great bed time story. Even though no one was there to witness any of this, its easy to make great assumptions when you can make people believe what ever you want because your IQ is off the scale and you have a Double Doctrine from MIT. So there for anyone who tries to critically oppose your way of thinking, is disqualified because they lack the brain power. Or perhaps Just wisdom is all that is needed here.

The fairy tales just about sound the same. Except one of them isnt a fairy Tale. Be thankful you were given the life you have regardless of how you may end up, healthy , non healthy ect ect .. It pales in comparison when you get to have that wonderful resurrected body on the other side. A little suffering for an eternity of glorious fellowship with our Lord and Savior ? Well worth it.

I agree with you truthseeker. Anyone with a little bit of science background can do what he does. He never confirms anything. He only gives his opinion and theories.

and YOU'RE not much of an expert on who's an expert...obviously.

Apparently, it isn't the truth you seek, after all.

I suspect the stories of Heaven and Hell were originally made up by groups of horney men who were not getting as much as they desired. The concoction was meant to bring the women into their subservience and sexual obedience. They told the women they could only achieve heaven after, by the act of intercourse with them, being filled with salvation. Those who would not adhere to the dictums or made the coupling difficult were doomed to hell. This beginning is probably the original basis of all religious dogma today. What? Good as anything else I've read here.

Religion is a gimmick and it's evil. Stories are used to control and intimidate people. The most judgemental people I know are religious. It's all about control.

Oh my truthseeker, anyone tell you you're an idiot?

Truth and MG

When you are able to explain the universe as Dr Hawking has done, when you have developed astrophysics and particle physics theories as far as he has done, then you can say he is not an expert,

Poor soul. God is everywhere. Nothing is accidental when it comes to the universe.

Yeah, s**t like ebola and smallpox is obviously designed by an anthropomorphic deity... namely yours, of course.

Tell you what: When you become, essentially, the smartest human being on the planet then feel free to quip about how "nothing is accidental."

Come to think of it, it doesn't take nearly that level of intelligence to understand that concept. It just requires a willingness to analyze the data without Jesus sitting on your shoulder.

The miracle of birth, the miracle that is the human body, completely conforming to almost any task one can think of. The joints, perfectly engineered to allow me to steer my car and grip my driver on the golf course. Everything about the human body is flawless. Are you going to tell me this is happenstance? I don't care what this bitter little invalid thinks. The bible says that in the last days, knowledge will be extrordinarily abound. Man will replace God with "Mother Earth" and other idols. He will be much too intellectual to believe in the simple notion that there is a creator. And once again, the answers are right there in the book. It's all coming to fruition at an extremely accelerated pace. You fools put your faith in science and man, and by these means justify your hatred and mockery of God. Read the Book of Revelations and then tell me you doubt there is a God. You had better fall to your knees and beg forgiveness, as our time here on earth is all but up.

I've been good all these years and there is no reward. Darn.

Amen! He may be very smart(as I am sure he is) but he needs to check himself. He will very soon find out how wrong he is. I pray that he turns before it is too late. There really is a loving God but He is a god of judgement.

The Sky is falling! The Sky is falling!!!

Sound familiar, s.bill?

I'm a believer as well; but I seem to recall "I shall come as a thief in the night."... NONE shall be expecting him... I think we're (as a human race) far from that scenario.

Every generation believes the revelation will take place in their lifetime. So far; every generation has been incorrect.

S.Bill LaLlik - Flawless? We can't see the full spectrum of light. We can't fly. We can't share our thoughts but must crudely communicate them with either clicks and whistles or scribbles. Our perfectly built bodies break down and die. We are not perfectly engineered. We are not engineered. We are the result of an amazingly NATURAL, not supernatural, process. And please note that I didn't say end result because this process is ongoing.

You challenge me to read part of the Bible. I challenge you to read any other holy book. If you can easily dismiss the myths and legends in those books, you'll understand how easily I can dismiss the myths and legends in yours.

I agree with you S.Bill. And how does the evil scientist think he survived with ALS all these years without God. Most people don't last 2 years since they are diagnosed.

Belief in religion is a choice every adult gets to make. Some choose not to believe. Others believe. I think those that believe should not harass the non-believers. And I also think that the non-believers should not harass the believers. Everyone should play nice.

If string theory proves to be correct and all mater in the universe including us is made up of tiny vibrating strings of energy. the law of conservation of energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed simply transfered from one place to another which is scientific fact. My question is what happens to our energy after death? My theory is that we and all life forms move through a interconnected web of energy some at different levels of evolution as we travel through space and time . The real question of god cannot be answered or fully comprehended by any human bieng including MR Hawkings . It would be as if an ant were trying to comprehend the solar system .We are limited by our brains as are the ants

Kevin Murray

@ KevinMurray - You've gotten it so completely, flawlessly backward that it makes me wonder a bit if you're serious!! On the off-chance that you are, let me just say: Have you ever driven an antique car or swung a really old golf club? I have done both, and let me tell you from experience that it's definitely not god engineering our joints to fit a purpose but humanity engineering stuff that fits our joints- and it's an ongoing process (an "evolution" you might say)! heheh... Hope you weren't serious, but I'm frightened that you were.

1 Corinthians " where is the wise man? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? .....for the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than man. ....God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise.....for the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are saved, it is the power of God. At least we know where this guy fits in......with the foolish.

Has anybody ever seen a particle form out of nothing? well neither has Mr Hawkins. this is all theory. If you allow every text book tell you stories about the creation of the universe, let me tell you a story about the Big Bad Wolfe.

Trans - you are in error when you say that. Take a look around you - you would have to be blind to not see our time is extremely short. Yes God said he would come as a thief in the night - but your wrong when you say "NONE" will be expecting him. While the majority of people think of the Rapture and end times as a joke and fairy tale, there are millions who are eagerly awaiting and expect/hope he returns soon, including me. He says you will know the season, but no man knows the hour or the date. If "NONE" were to be expecting him, why then did he give signs of the last days, which Christians should recognize?

@ S.Bill LaLlik

So I guess in all this "perfection" you can explain things like the linkage of the esophagus and trachea, wisdom teeth, the appendix, why men have nipples etc...

I hope this fool will not find out too late that there is indeed both heaven and hell, and that both are eternal.

People like Osama Bin Laden, Adolph Hitler, etc are currently roasting in a very hot part of hell. While people like Jesus, Paul and Peter are comfortable in heaven.

O yes, there must be a life after death, and we have no excuse for not knowing that simple fact.

Have enjoyed your books, Dr. Hawkings. When it comes to advice on spiritual matters, best to keep your day job.

@ danny-3480872

Ah the ol' defending the heaven fairytale with another biblical fairytale. A simple evaluation on the history of the bible and how it was used by the Romans as an an attempt to control its ever expanding empire, taken by the clergy and re-scripted to fit their needs (wants), translated and re-translated time and again with many different editions and versions depending on who the local clergy was, abridged and edited over and over again until we get what we have now, a book of fairy tales used to scare you into believing in hell so that you obey without question, you know because questioning god is a sin.

The surest path to atheism is the objective study of religion.

Mr. Hawking: You surprise me.

While the standard image of "Heaven" in most Humans' minds is surely a fairy story, there are other possibilities. As you know, matter and energy are interchangeable. We are matter, animated by energy, produced through the rhythmic pounding of the heart-muscle. So, in theory, the energy could leave the corporeal body and then, as a subtle-body move forward and backward through space and time. An alternate dimension, universe, even breaking the natural laws of what we know as physics, exceeding the speed of light. Whatever.

Christ, the Man (god?) was a very special and highly-evolved being, moving about in the subtle body, sans corporeal body, and at will. At least that is my deduction. He told us that all Humans are similarly capable of such, too.

In any case, please keep an open mind on the subject. You may have one more surprise coming.

john666 - It doesn't take a genius to know that there is no god no heaven and no hell (other than what you create while you are alive). It is just that Hawking has the balls to say so. If he were here in the US he would be crucified by the Christian community for making a public statement like this. Some of the comments on this page are quite damning both of Hawking and of the evangelicals who write them. I would not be surprised if some evangelical wingnut would attempt to cause Hawking great harm for his honesty.

as smart as mr hawkins is. i strongly believe that he is dead wrong. he says "tiny fluctuations in the very early universe became the seeds from which galaxies, stars, and ultimately human life emerged" but my question to mr hawkins is well who created this early universe that seeded the galaxies..everything needs a creator. there has to be a starting point. and even for those who want to argue that the worlds were created out of nothing then i would have to reply then who created the nothing. please think about this... nothing is actually something mr hawkins...

This is just his opinion based on his life experience. It seems as valid to me as someone who believes in angels and pearly gates. It doesn't mean we should pity him or denigrate his work. If he's wrong he'll find out eventually and be pleasantly surprised. If he's right, well, so what?

Oh gosh! (truly intended) Too many religious people here!!!

Wait, i'm on an American website...

SBILLALIK,

You obviously did not get my body and certainly not Dr. Hawkings. There are hundreds of cool creation myths many overlapping such as the bibles apparent highjacking of the flood myth among others. Numerous science fiction books and fantasy novels provide equally deep and interesting creation stories. Literal belief in bible stories is absurd and thinking some invisible guy told some illiterates in the desert how life should be conducted would lead one to believe that such a God was somnewhat of a dimwit and a bit of a prick. Witholding ones presence and gift of eternal life from 99% of the world seems to indicate God loved jews and hated everyone else and as it turns out he wasn't too crazy about them either.

jkh

i have compassion for persosns like dr stephen that base on their resentment because they have suffer in life. make the decision to denied the existence of God as creator of the universe. he has made the decision to use his special intelligence to say there is no heaven or there is no GOD. that God doen't mean any thing to him that doen't mean there is no God. to find God we have to truthful to ourselves and courageous seekers.

"Faith is believing in something when you know it just aint so." Sam Clemens

one thing for sure is that you'll never know the truth until the day you die...oh, i take that back, we do know the truth. Jesus came and proved it. the reason you won't find His body is because He rose from the dead and is alive within those that believe in His coming. the Holy Spirit can only reveal the truth so if you lack Him you lack truth. words can and have been changed but the Spirit is alive and kicking. so my suggestion to those of you that lack the true knowledge of life, heaven and hell, ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you and prove that He is alive and that His words are true. yes, there is a place called heaven. more like eternity. i can't wait until i see the Glory of God the Father. and as for this man that doubts, well, our Lord has kept him alive so that we as believers can pray for him and when he does find the truth, he will be a very big testimony for the ones that he mislead. he is a gift from God the Father and i for one can't wait for him to write about his new found life in Christ Jesus one day soon. praise You Jesus!

This thread wasn't intended as a Bible vs Science discussion. The point is that Hawking is less qualified to discuss the nature of ultimate reality than Ben Franklin would be in discussing the detailed electronic operating schemes of a CT scanner. Hawking is a noted theoretical astrophysicist whose knowldege of the cosmos has large gaps - dark energy anyone ? His comments about " Heaven" cannot be construed to indicate that he has any significant expertise in that area - they are just the opinions of one man - a smart man albeit. Carl Jung might have words of more wisdom on this subject than Hawking.

From the first shooting star that made a caveman fall to his knees we've had religion. It constantly evolves with civilization. Says something about us doesn't it?

If someone can't make it through their day without placing everything on some god's shoulders, then just say "Bless their hearts" and move along.

But when some fanatic tries to force his crutch on you, you have the "god given right" to give 'em hell.

I am sorry to hear that a man such as Dr. Hawking would deny knowledge of God. I personally believe in Jesus and what He did on the cross. I love science myself and enjoy thinking of how things work together. It's interesting the Earth's place in the Milky Way galaxy. It's the perfect place to be. Life couldn't exist in hardly anywhere else and the it's the perfect place to view from. Hardly anywhere else would be clear enough to see the splendor of the universe.

I hope that none would perish and that is God's will also. I think that the only way that one does perish is to deny Him or disobey Him. Jesus said that if you have the faith the size of a mustard seed, you can move a mountain or tell a tree to throw itself into the sea. That tells me that reality is fluid and you make your own reality. Where you place your faith is everything.

May the Lord bless you richly

Did @S.Bill Lalik really refer to someone with A.L.S. as "a bitter, little invalid"? You're doing a great job with that missionary work. I'm sure you'll gain many converts with that attitude. And I'm so glad you believe that God created your hands to grip a golf club. Hopefully he'll get around to that 'whole starving, orphaned children problem' next.

God said many things all have come to pass Isreal would become a state in one day and that they would control jerusalem 1967 that it would become a burden to the world this is happining right now and the peace pact and east jerusalem given to palinstinens maby this will happen september what does it take to convense people of these truths

Everything about the human body is flawless.

ROFLMAO!!!

Definitely from another planet.

Man had finally grown so much in knowledge that they decided they did not need God. So they told Him that He could leave because they could do anything He could. So God said let's have a contest and make the better man, and the scientist said OK, and they reached down and grabbed a handful of dirt and God told them to go and create their own.

The wisdom of God is as foolishness to man and the wisdom of man is foolishness to God!

assuming that this God being exists, it is incredibly unlikely that it would sit around watching us making sure that we are praising it sufficiently, just so it could throw the unbelievers into a pit of fire.

it would have more important things to do like running the universe.

what the crap does that mean??? i think he sucks!! i used to look up to him but now i wouldn't spit on his stupid butt!!

just because he hasn't fallen for the whole heaven and hell scam?

Hawking says, "Science predicts that many different kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing. It is a matter of chance which we are in." In actuality, science NEEDS that to be the case, but, unfortunately, there's zero observable evidence for it. Sounds ironically like a faith-based belief to me.

Hawking also believes that marauding aliens will be bent on conquering the earth. Again, not based on observable science.

Put his beliefs together, and you might as well believe that aliens seeded earth. Why not. However, it's not far from other creationist beliefs.

You choose to believe or not in parallel universes and how reproducing life began from nothing. You also accept the entire ball of wax of evolution without question. Maybe you do or you don't believe T Rexes had feathers, or you will when the scientific concensus tells you to believe that. You choose to believe what you're told by people who've chosen to believe what they've been told not being very critical about the theories you can't prove. It's not very different from religion at all...except you keep saying your entire belief set is about the observable which just isn't true. You try to predict and theorize. It's fine, but it's not truth.

@Seriously...

I love this new definition of science:

Science (from Latin: scientia meaning "knowledge") is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world.^[1][2][3][4]An older and closely related meaning still in use today is that of Aristotle, for whom scientific knowledge was a body of reliable knowledge that can be logically and rationally explained

Even the definition of science must change over time. At any rate, with a definition like that, who cares about its answers for the questions we're discussing. Those answers would be your mental masturbation.

"The key, underlying difference is that old scientific theorems are replaced by those that can explain the same, and new phenomena more accurately, with better predictability." Just not necessarily truthfully. You accept that that's the best you can offer right now, and you're fine with that. There is truth, and if observable, science can prove it. LOL.

Not all follow God blindly as not all follow science blindly. Probably all of us do some of one or the other. I understand science, but don't follow it blindly. I understand what I believe about God to be true, and do not believe I'm following it blindly in the same sense that I choose to believe what I'm told about some things. What portion of science will you admit you do follow blindly, meaning you accept what you're told or have learned from others? You yourself are not reproducing all results, therefore you're following much of it blindly. It's ok.

"But they are still head-and-shoulders above those that deny scientific explanation entirely." This is completely illogical. Does anyone honestly deny all scientific explanation entirely???

You can say advanced math and calculus as much as you want, but you're still talking about creating models to predict and many times predict what you can never observe in order to prove. It's still kind of just a fun game in the absence of observation. I enjoy it too. But, torture numbers, and they'll tell you anything.

Right, Hawking bases alien encounters off human interactions, of course, because that's all he and the rest of us have observed. It's in no way brilliant. Many scifi authors have explored the idea long before Hawking. That's VERY simple and predictable...and fun. I'm not saying it's impossible.

You're saying an entity who could create life on our planet is improbable, I think, right? Or, is it improbable that an alien race seeded our existing planet with life? Or, is it simply improbable if we call the entity God and refer to the religious writings of our choice?

Science does NOT predict that there are parallel universes. Science needs parallel universes to exist to explain away that we are here in this universe. There's NO predicting this. You're fooling yourself. This is science formulated from agenda and might as well be science fiction.

@iseeconfusedpeople

"no, he said that if two unequal civilizations were to meet, the less advanced one would probably disappear. plenty of evidence for that based on what has happened here through our own history."

Right, so in the absence of universal evidence, create a simple model based on local data.

Anyway, here's what he said:

"We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet," Hawking said. "I imagine they might exist in massive ships ... having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonize whatever planets they can reach.”

The reason I keep on this is that these simple models are not representative of truth, but valued by their predictive success, which brings us back to the beginning in so many words.

Can Hawking really predict how alien life would treat us based on how we treat each other? Can you really hope to predict how a creator of our life would treat us based on how we treat ourselves? And be accurate? No. Can you predict a parallel universe because that would help you make sense of our known universe? No.

So, what's our definition of science today?

so what's your point tom? he is making a speculation based on what little data is available.

the real problem with aliens is that they're alien, motivations and even thought processes are nearly impossible to predict, so the only basis that we have to go on is the one working data set we actually do have until (if) another comes along.

personally, I think the next "alien" intelligence we find is going to be the one we make, what happens after that? don't know.

Actually, science DOES predict that there are parallel universes. The magazine Scientific American has at least one supplement addition DEDICATED to parallel universes and the different types that could be out there - or right here, as the case may be. If you don't believe in parallel universes, then you're probably not truly scientifically inclined...and that's a little like me not being religiously inclined, isn't it.

As far as I'm concerned, everyone can believe whatever they want to believe...but leave everyone else out of it who doesn't want to share your beliefs voluntarily. Science may "inflict" itself upon our daily lives against our wishes, like in medicine, alternative energy or in some other way, but a sizable segment of the religious population often want to inflict their entire specific belief systems on whole communities, states, regions or even the nation. YOU tell ME which is more dangerous to the "American way-of-life"...

The whole point of science is to figure out what's happening and prove it. The whole point of religion is to believe regardless of anything else. The choice was easy for me to make on that one. I find scientific theories interesting and compelling, but I don't really "believe" in them until they are proven...at which point they cease being theories and become facts or laws instead. If you don't need demonstrable fact in order to believe in god, well then good luck; in my opinion, you're going to need it.

The simple fact of the matter is, we're here. We and the universe got here somehow. Whether it was the big bang, god's creation, or something else entirely, it's still pretty much a miracle that we exist at all...and all you have to do is look around the universe to see how slim the odds were that we would be here discussing the words of Steven Hawking or anyone else.

For me, it's hard enough to fathom existence just as it is, WITHOUT throwing in a supernatural and unprovable "X-factor" like god. Some people say that god provides us answers, but for me, the concept of god just brings up more questions...none of which can have valid answers.

I believe we have conjured "Heaven" because we are in denial of death. The desire for something greater was born in imagination and love. Unfortunately the concepts of the heavenly ideal have been hijacked for ages by people who want to control others. And they've thrown in "Hell" for good measure, as a threat against the freedom to think and disagree.

Actually, we were not wrong in our faith, and in the prescience of an immortal life. Immortality will come, but will be of our own making- through science, not religion.

With the doubling of computer capacity every year or so, we will ultimately reach that singularity long before which will have been solved the problem of mortality. Immortality and the resurrection of past lives will come in some future reality, as will the restoration of our world in an age of reason and love. This has to be the destiny of any self-conscious species, on any world. The wisdom needed to survive exceeds the bounds of mortality. In order to survive, we must become immortals.

We will awaken to the gods, and they will be Us. This is what we did not understand. (Please read the book, THE BRIGHTNESS.)

immortal, define it.

Sure, but I prefer to believe in what these guys in labcoats say and not on the beliefs of ancient cattlehearders that demand for us to ask forgiveness for being human!

Yeah, except that this opinion comes from an extremely intelligent man with an extraordinary level of education....

It doesn't take much brainpower to figure it out so I suspect he got that little detail right a long time ago and is just now revealing it.

I want all of you to know you can have your own opinions but those of you who think the same as this hauking dude will soon find that you are wrong. When you pass away and meet God and he tells you 'depart from me i never knew you' and you go to hell im sure you will think differently.

Thanks for granting us the ability to have our own opinions.I don't know what we'd do without you.I'm also glad that you know i'm going to hell when i die.You're a genious!

"When you pass away and meet God and he tells you 'depart from me i never knew you' and you go to hell im sure you will think differently."

-awsomeness

When will people stop using fear to promote religion?

oh!!!im glad you know now!! whos a good boy??? you are!! yes you are...yes you are!!

and by the way if you dont open your heart to God you will go to you know where!!

to jeff - i wasnt trying to use fear but it does say in the bible to fear God.

so why dont u think about that a little!!!

unawEsomeness,

try learning to spell, it would make you look slightly less like a fool.

Hawking says, "Science predicts that many different kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing. It is a matter of chance which we are in." In actuality, science NEEDS that to be the case, but, unfortunately, there's zero observable evidence for it. Sounds ironically like a faith-based belief to me.

Hawking also believes that marauding aliens will be bent on conquering the earth. Again, not based on observable science.

Put his beliefs together, and you might as well believe that aliens seeded earth. Why not. However, it's not far from other creationist beliefs.

You choose to believe or not in parallel universes and how reproducing life began from nothing. You also accept the entire ball of wax of evolution without question. Maybe you do or you don't believe T Rexes had feathers, or you will when the scientific concensus tells you to believe that. You choose to believe what you're told by people who've chosen to believe what they've been told not being very critical about the theories you can't prove. It's not very different from religion at all...except you keep saying your entire belief set is about the observable which just isn't true. You try to predict and theorize. It's fine, but it's not truth.

@Seriously...

I love this new definition of science:

Science (from Latin: scientia meaning "knowledge") is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world.^[1][2][3][4]An older and closely related meaning still in use today is that of Aristotle, for whom scientific knowledge was a body of reliable knowledge that can be logically and rationally explained

Even the definition of science must change over time. At any rate, with a definition like that, who cares about its answers for the questions we're discussing. Those answers would be your mental masturbation.

"The key, underlying difference is that old scientific theorems are replaced by those that can explain the same, and new phenomena more accurately, with better predictability." Just not necessarily truthfully. You accept that that's the best you can offer right now, and you're fine with that. There is truth, and if observable, science can prove it. LOL.

Not all follow God blindly as not all follow science blindly. Probably all of us do some of one or the other. I understand science, but don't follow it blindly. I understand what I believe about God to be true, and do not believe I'm following it blindly in the same sense that I choose to believe what I'm told about some things. What portion of science will you admit you do follow blindly, meaning you accept what you're told or have learned from others? You yourself are not reproducing all results, therefore you're following much of it blindly. It's ok.

"But they are still head-and-shoulders above those that deny scientific explanation entirely." This is completely illogical. Does anyone honestly deny all scientific explanation entirely???

You can say advanced math and calculus as much as you want, but you're still talking about creating models to predict and many times predict what you can never observe in order to prove. It's still kind of just a fun game in the absence of observation. I enjoy it too. But, torture numbers, and they'll tell you anything.

Right, Hawking bases alien encounters off human interactions, of course, because that's all he and the rest of us have observed. It's in no way brilliant. Many scifi authors have explored the idea long before Hawking. That's VERY simple and predictable...and fun. I'm not saying it's impossible.

You're saying an entity who could create life on our planet is improbable, I think, right? Or, is it improbable that an alien race seeded our existing planet with life? Or, is it simply improbable if we call the entity God and refer to the religious writings of our choice?

Science does NOT predict that there are parallel universes. Science needs parallel universes to exist to explain away that we are here in this universe. There's NO predicting this. You're fooling yourself. This is science formulated from agenda and might as well be science fiction.

tom, are you only capable of one comment a day? then you spam the same comment over and over?

Is this Tom like a broken record or what? I want proof that the Bible is true. You say the Bible is the word of God. Why? Because it says it is. well so does the Koran, the hindu ragas, etc. A Mongol khan once invited a group of Catholic priest, Muslim Clerics and Buddhist monks to debate the nature of God. It ended up with the Catholics singing hymns, the Muslims chanting Allah and the Buddhist retreating into meditation. Nothing was proven in the end.

Man is what the universe has made him and the universe is mad.

@iseeconfusedpeople

"no, he said that if two unequal civilizations were to meet, the less advanced one would probably disappear. plenty of evidence for that based on what has happened here through our own history."

Right, so in the absence of universal evidence, create a simple model based on local data.

Anyway, here's what he said:

"We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet," Hawking said. "I imagine they might exist in massive ships ... having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonize whatever planets they can reach.”

The reason I keep on this is that these simple models are not representative of truth, but valued by their predictive success, which brings us back to the beginning in so many words.

Can Hawking really predict how alien life would treat us based on how we treat each other? Can you really hope to predict how a creator of our life would treat us based on how we treat ourselves? And be accurate? No. Can you predict a parallel universe because that would help you make sense of our known universe? No.

you cannot accurately say that that is how alien life would treat us but we have nothing base our theories on but experience. Mankind has consistently been evil to one another, that is why there has been extinction and near extniction of races since man has learned to travel. If we found a people that we considered" inferior" then we simply got rid of them or used them to our benefit. i.e. Cowboys and Indians, English and Australians, Hitler, White Americans and slavery, etc... This much resembles what we now consider to be "primitive thought" about medicine and the "ways of the world" being controlled by "gods". We have learned from our experiences that medicine and "gods" are 2 completely different things. We have learned as we have "evolved" that things aren't always as fantastic as we percieve them to be. So ,it stands to reason that either side could be right. However, in using that logic, it seems that it would be way more likely that there truly is no "god" and that we are here because we are here and whatever will be will be. We aren't going to heaven and we aren't goung to hell, we are just going.

because YOU KNOW YOU'RE RIGHT...right? So therefore, Hawking MUST be wrong...I'm glad you were able to make that objective leap of faith(tm) so easily

HAHAHAHAHAHAAH.

I am simply inclined to believe that he is completely incorrect I myself do not have this confusion because I see heaven simplisticly where we are now and God in our everyday lives!!! No man will know simply:):)!! Heaven is nothing anyone can Imagine!!!!

mikeydo - In one sentence you claim to see heaven around you and in the next claim "heaven is nothing anyone can imagine." Contradict yourself much?? As one can plainly see, like most religious people, you just MAKE @!$%# UP on the fly to suit your "feelings" or "mAgIKal ThiNKing".

Mikeydo, I can imagine Heaven and I have. I once had a dream where I was pure consciousness floating through space. I had the realization that I had no physical body and because of this I knew I could not be hurt, nor did I need anything. The emotions of fear and desire disappeared. All that was left to feel was a joyful sense of wonder at how beautiful the universe was. What hapened next is what made it magical. That joyful sense wonder began to "feed back" on itself and just grew in intensity. It would have gone on forever had I not woken up. That joyful sense of wonder feeding back on itself and growing in intensity forever is what I believe is - Heaven.

Dear Mr. Hawking and Mr. Modes:

First let me say I have always admired you, Mr. Hawking. You put all the stereotypes of handicapped people on their ears! I myself have Myasthenia Gravis, and take a medication called MYTELASE CHLORIDE (AMBENONIUM CHLORIDE), for it. It is rare and old and I don't think it's presnetly legla in England....but check into it -- I hope it can help you as mch as it helps me!

When I was 5 years old, I got a case of strep throat, and had to be taken to the hospital. I was running 108 degrees temperature -- and what was worse, (or at least as bad), the nurses forgot to give me the medication for my (rare) childhood case of Myasthenia Gravis. (Also a muscular-neurological ailment, but it is the Least serious, while A.L.S. is the most serious. However, without my meds, I can die in three days, or less....) Anyway, I didn't know any of this whilst I was lying in the children's ward.....or, in fact, for many years later.... All of a sudden, though, I was looking down at what seemed to be a lot of little shoe-boxes with children in them! I don't remember being on the ceiling, but that's the perspective one gets..... Suddenly, and without warning, I was whisked away, and found myself in a sea of blue - blue, blue, all around me. It was bright, but did not hurt my eyes. Just as suddenly, I then found myself in front of five or seven beautiful women, (no kidding!). Each was standing under a bower, wearing a long white gown, and most of them had long, blonde hair. The lady in the middle, however, had long dark hair -- the same colour that I have. This lady in the centre was looking at me....and Looking at me.....and LOOKING at me. I had no idea at all why she was looking at me so intently... But I could see, beyond the ladies and the bowers, a beautiful garden, with manicured grass....looking for all the world like the land of the Teletubbies, (that's the only way I can describe it)....except it was perfectly flat....and no flowers or bunny-rabbits. The lady just kept LOOKING at me............and then...............I found myself back in the hospital ward!

For about 30 years after, this story just kept going in and out of my consciousness. Sometimes I could remember it.....sometimes not. I called it "The Magic Life", and had absolutely NO idea about what had actually happened....or why it had happened. On TV, I sometimes watched programs where people described near-death experiences....but I did not connect at all what had happened to me with a near-death experience.....

Then, one day, my mom told me that when I had been in the hospital at 5, I had run 108 degrees temperature, and that the nurses had forgotten to give me my meds. Then she told me my dad had discovered this, and had ORDERED the nurses to give me my medication -- thereby probably saving my life!

I suddenly realized that "The Magic Life" had actually been a near-death experience! And the lady with the black hair who had kept looking and Looking and LOOKING at me? I surmise that she was my aunt, (I don't remember what she looked like, it was so many years ago, and I have no picture of her.) She was the ONLY member of either side of my family who had died, when I was 5 years old. She was 19 at the time, and died from pnemonia.

I am named after her. If there is a Heaven, I believe I saw it beyond those ladies and their bowers.

I only have one simple question to ask. As a scientist he must believe that something must come from something. Like water that comes from Hydrogen and Oxygen, which is made of electrons and protons, etc. In order to follow this principle a scientist MUST admit something/someone had to "create" these molecules, sub-atomic particles, and the rest. Could not a Being that was able to start all we see, touch, feel, also create a heaven? Also remember that Mr. Hawking has put out many theories, which are ideas based on principals but do not have scientific proof that they are correct. I hope someday he will open his heart to his Creator and find out that he is loved.

Ivanho75

Just wondering why it bothers you so much that people have other opinions than yourself. Why are you so mean and angry in your comment? I'm guessing that you wouldn't appreciate someone serving up that comment back at you?

what are you talking about. he is brilliant. hes stupid becuase he belives in an after life that has no physical proof of exsistance. your an idiot

Eternity -

Huh? If you want to post a cogent rebuttal to anything I've posted feel free. I love a good discussion. I just pointed out the blatantly obvious fact that Mikeydo just made up stuff since he contradicted himself in the space of two sentences. I have no problem if someone wants to be critical of anything I posted.

I would say that everyone making "enjoy the barbeque Hawkings" type of comments are infinitely more vile, masochistic, mean, and angry than anything I've posted.

Eternity -

Huh? If you want to post a cogent rebuttal to anything I've posted feel free. I love a good discussion. I just pointed out the blatantly obvious fact that Mikeydo just made up stuff since he contradicted himself in the space of two sentences. I have no problem if someone wants to be critical of anything I posted.

I would say that everyone making "enjoy the barbeque Hawkings" type of comments are infinitely more vile, masochistic, mean, and angry than anything I've posted.

Recently, I had a dream I was in heaven. I was standing behind people in white robes. I walked down 3 steps and saw Jesus. He hugged me and said "suffering". When I woke up I asked Him what the dream was about. He said, "Pick up that book and open it." I was at my brothers house. I opened the book I never had seen before to the middle of the book and it said that the steps to the thrones in heaven go down because Jesus' progress to the throne was one of humbling Himself to become a man, then a servant and then obedient to the point of death. He did it for you, Mr Hawking. Simply put your trust in Him and you will be in the same heaven I was. From the looks of you, you won't last on this earth much longer. I would advise you to place your trust in Jesus now before it is too late. There is not only a heaven, but there is also a hell.

im not going to say anything bad about any of you i just want to spread gods love and want to tell you,even though you probably won't listen,that their is a heaven and if you give your heart to God he will take your problems. if you dont believe in him then.....well....you know the rest!!!

There is no god people it's just a form of control. Can't you see that. Why do so called christian leaders order the military to go in kill people and take over, then preach, "thou shalt not kill" yea right a form of control. There are a many of things that can disprove a god.

All these dreams of flying and white robes and green pastures that what we are taught when we are kids... brain washed. I believe that early in human evolution we were to ignorant to understand what was going on around us...and someone just a little smarter dreamed up this god character as a form of control. Actually this planet needs that belief, cause if not the world would be total choas.

Amazing to me such a BOLD statement could be made in a era where words used in the negative about Gays can lead to almost-( Media Wise ) universal damnation. How can this be? This man just OPENLY insulted BILLIONS of people around the world and not a WORD will be uttered by the mainstream media negativly in regards to Mr. Hawkings comments. Folks we live in a world now where if you want to scream from a hill top your Gay-THEY ARE NOT TO BE JUDGED but if you believe in a God or in Heaven or Hell you can be labelled openly with no hestiation as a "Fairy Tale Believer",with not a whisper of Judgement on Mr. Hawkings comments from the media giants,,,,somethings wrong here people.

You disagree so he's "not so smart".

Sorry but I can't go down that path with you.

He seems brave enough to swallow the idea that he lives a difficult life because "S#!+ Happens". Not because some deity is playing dollies with our lives.

If we all had a "This is it so do the best you can cause nothing comes next attitude" I bet the world would be happier.

Preachers may preach differently to keep their business going....but the religious cause wars. Not Atheists.

I, myself, am not an Atheist but the ones I know are some of the smartest, bravest people who do the most good with the time they have.

If I, too, were braver I might join their ranks. To an Athiest, I suppose I'd be seen as a wishy-washy agnostic. To a Churchie I'd be seen as a bullet to hell. I respect the way Athiests look at the evidence and think.

Seems the Churchies just swallow whatever their told. Perhaps my viewpoint is askew.

Hawking says, "Science predicts that many different kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing. It is a matter of chance which we are in." In actuality, science NEEDS that to be the case, but, unfortunately, there's zero observable evidence for it. Sounds ironically like a faith-based belief to me.

Hawking also believes that marauding aliens will be bent on conquering the earth. Again, not based on observable science.

Put his beliefs together, and you might as well believe that aliens seeded earth. Why not. However, it's not far from other creationist beliefs.

You choose to believe or not in parallel universes and how reproducing life began from nothing. You also accept the entire ball of wax of evolution without question. Maybe you do or you don't believe T Rexes had feathers, or you will when the scientific concensus tells you to believe that. You choose to believe what you're told by people who've chosen to believe what they've been told not being very critical about the theories you can't prove. It's not very different from religion at all...except you keep saying your entire belief set is about the observable which just isn't true. You try to predict and theorize. It's fine, but it's not truth.

to wld west- you are in for a surprise!!

gee, he answered a question about his beliefs truthfully, and you want him hung. how "Christian" of you.

Whats next? are you going to stone someone? just like the taliban? you are sounding more like them every day.

do please tell, are you going to issue a fatwa demanding his death?

AND TOM, STOP WITH THE SPAM ALREADY!!!!

If one studies the revealed religions, from Adam to Baha'u'llah as it were, spanning several thousand years, one would find that most of Their teachings are very similar, also Their teachings on an after life are also similar. These Messengers of God also suffered greatly bringing these teachings to mankind. Some were tortured, many imprisoned, and some killed. So what was in it for Them? Why stand up in a society, proclaim teachings that they know many of their own people will renounce and get killed? What's the pay off? It is because They have personal knowledge of God and spend Their lives communicating this knowledge to mankind. They are willing to place Their belief in God above all else. Human beings have a dual nature, physical and spiritual. Dr. Hawking speaks about the physical realities because he is a physical scientist, but he does not have a clue about spiritual realities, for him, that door is shut. And that's why today we find ourselves and our world in such a mess. Like Dr. Hawking most of us have forgotten our own spiritual realities. We all know about how things work, how products are made, different marketing strategies. But we have forgotten where we came from, and why we are here, and most importantly how to act as a reasonable member of the human race.

Ivanho75 - I don't need to give a cogent rebuttal. I just asked why those opinions require your anger. I don't expect you to be open to my beliefs, I've read many of your posts, the ridicule of people of faith speaks loudly. I will say that I have a huge issue with the burn in hell comments too. There is not place in my heart or faith that would support that type of malice toward someone who does not believe the way I do. I still have to wonder why those differing opinions make you so angry in you response.

There is not place in my heart or faith that would support that type of malice toward someone who does not believe the way I do

thank you eternity, there are plenty of good Christians out there, even if I may disagree with them regarding their belief. many of whom I know personally. it's the "you are going to burn" types that get me a bit miffed. some of those folks seem no better than the Taliban. some of them would even stoop to causing harm, either directly or indirectly to those that disagree with them .

@iseeconfusedpeople

"no, he said that if two unequal civilizations were to meet, the less advanced one would probably disappear. plenty of evidence for that based on what has happened here through our own history."

Right, so in the absence of universal evidence, create a simple model based on local data.

Anyway, here's what he said:

"We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet," Hawking said. "I imagine they might exist in massive ships ... having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonize whatever planets they can reach.”

The reason I keep on this is that these simple models are not representative of truth, but valued by their predictive success, which brings us back to the beginning in so many words.

Can Hawking really predict how alien life would treat us based on how we treat each other? Can you really hope to predict how a creator of our life would treat us based on how we treat ourselves? And be accurate? No. Can you predict a parallel universe because that would help you make sense of our known universe? No.

Maybe Mr. Hawking is 100 times smarter than the average human. But still, his point of view is like pitching a tent at the end of your driveway and calling it camping out. His guess is as good as anyone else's.

Hawking can back up his theories can you say the same for the Bible which is and will always be the biggest book of fiction ever written by man for man. You cannot prove one single person existed in the Bible, where are their bodies buried? Why is it we can find mummies buried 5000yrs or more ago but not one single person from the Bible!!! Its is truly a fairy tale that brain washed fools believe.

You sir are smarter than Mr. Hawking because you just said it all in two sentences. He needed a whole book.

Davidsidekick-2767436, Uh, I think we have found mummies from "bible days" in all the places the people practiced mummification. I don't think mummification was a common practice among the Jews of the bible, so why would we find their bodies?

David - Anyone can back up theories, but they are still theories. At the point that they become axiomatic, then you have something. For instance, if you plant carrot seeds you're going to get carrots. Two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen will give you water everytime; it's not dependent upon superior intellect or someone's belief, and I don't think the superior human has improved on that.

I'm willing to bet that Mr. Hawking knows less than one megazillionteenthabrazillionwaxilionth of what the universe holds. It kind of gets that way when you're contemplating an ever-expanding infinity.

That being said, I'm willing to bet that he knows a thousand times more about the universe than 99% of the world's population.

Davidsidekick: You're right, I can't prove anyone in the Bible existed. I leave that up to the historians, because they do a pretty good job. Ever hear of Caesar Agustus? Do we know where Alexander the Great's body was buried? Since we don't, I guess that means he never existed.

Sarcasm aside, whether you believe the Bible is truth or whether you believe it is fiction, please come to the table with something substantial to support your opinion. Sweeping generalizations based on ignorance only proves your animosity.

Now, back to your points. In order for me to prove you wrong, based on your claims all I had to do is present one person from the Bible that historians agree was historical, and all I needed to do is present a case where historians don't need a body to agree that someone was historical. Now, I didn't prove the Bible is true, which would take a lot of evidence. But I did demonstrate that you were incorrect in your reasoning, which took painfully little evidence. Please do us all a favor next time and be armed with something other than just your opinion and ignorance.

Vasagi - Perhaps he does know a thousand times more about the universe. But, like a newborn infant, he is subject to it as well.

It takes a pretty big leap of faith on Hawking's part to believe the earth just spontaneously "happened". He has a theory, but not proof. It takes an even bigger leap of faith to believe the Theory of Evolution- just can't seem to find the missing link that puts it all together. Sounds like Hawking's a bit more religious that he lets on... (just a thought).

We have scripture based on eye witness accounts, miracles, faith AND history. Billions of people have believed it starting at the beginning of time. and those same people have faith that God does indeed exist and takes an active role in their lives.

There are many history books on the shelves. Who's to say whether any of them are accurate or not- or even has real information in them. Did those people really exist, or are they just made up? Were the places on the pages really there?

For example: So far there's a lot of evidence that Shakespeare lived and wrote a lot of great plays. BUT there is a lot of evidence that he didn't exist at all. There are people today that make there very career on the study of Shakespeare. Do we call them fools and crazies? Why aren't they called crazy for believing he existed?? How do we know Genghis Khan lived? Who's to believe the history books? What about Julius Caesar? Cleopatra? Alexander the Great?

Just because you've not met the person doesn't mean he never was. I would invite you to get to know God. He's waiting...

@ Davidsidekick-2767436

Its not about proving that historical people existed, can you prove that anyone pre-1700ish existed? no not really. Most likely the story of Jesus was credited to an actual person, but the exaggeration of his powers is nearly a carbon copy to the story of Krishna of India, and Osiris of Egypt. In order to make the stories last a little embellishment plagiarized from more ancient religions was needed.

The issue with the biblical stories of the accounts of Jesus is Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all wrote their stories circa 100-300 AD, none of them lived during the time that Jesus supposedly lived.

As I said in a previous post, the surest path to Atheism is an objective study of religion.

Wow...talk about contradiction!

It takes a pretty big leap of faith on Hawking's part to believe the earth just spontaneously "happened".

...but...

We have scripture based on eye witness accounts, miracles, faith AND history.

So, tell me, how many people were around to write the "eye witness accounts" of creation in the Bible?

Bottom line, Hawking's theories require a leap of faith. The Bible requires the same.

Well said! I agree with your insightful logic.

Hawking says, "Science predicts that many different kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing. It is a matter of chance which we are in." In actuality, science NEEDS that to be the case, but, unfortunately, there's zero observable evidence for it. Sounds ironically like a faith-based belief to me.

Hawking also believes that marauding aliens will be bent on conquering the earth. Again, not based on observable science.

Put his beliefs together, and you might as well believe that aliens seeded earth. Why not. However, it's not far from other creationist beliefs.

You choose to believe or not in parallel universes and how reproducing life began from nothing. You also accept the entire ball of wax of evolution without question. Maybe you do or you don't believe T Rexes had feathers, or you will when the scientific concensus tells you to believe that. You choose to believe what you're told by people who've chosen to believe what they've been told not being very critical about the theories you can't prove. It's not very different from religion at all...except you keep saying your entire belief set is about the observable which just isn't true. You try to predict and theorize. It's fine, but it's not truth.

Tom are you already so short of ideas (read stupid) that you can't even come up with somethong original on each post? you just keep posting the same garbage over and over.

@Seriously...

I love this new definition of science:

Science (from Latin: scientia meaning "knowledge") is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world.^[1][2][3][4]An older and closely related meaning still in use today is that of Aristotle, for whom scientific knowledge was a body of reliable knowledge that can be logically and rationally explained

Even the definition of science must change over time. At any rate, with a definition like that, who cares about its answers for the questions we're discussing. Those answers would be your mental masturbation.

"The key, underlying difference is that old scientific theorems are replaced by those that can explain the same, and new phenomena more accurately, with better predictability." Just not necessarily truthfully. You accept that that's the best you can offer right now, and you're fine with that. There is truth, and if observable, science can prove it. LOL.

Not all follow God blindly as not all follow science blindly. Probably all of us do some of one or the other. I understand science, but don't follow it blindly. I understand what I believe about God to be true, and do not believe I'm following it blindly in the same sense that I choose to believe what I'm told about some things. What portion of science will you admit you do follow blindly, meaning you accept what you're told or have learned from others? You yourself are not reproducing all results, therefore you're following much of it blindly. It's ok.

"But they are still head-and-shoulders above those that deny scientific explanation entirely." This is completely illogical. Does anyone honestly deny all scientific explanation entirely???

You can say advanced math and calculus as much as you want, but you're still talking about creating models to predict and many times predict what you can never observe in order to prove. It's still kind of just a fun game in the absence of observation. I enjoy it too. But, torture numbers, and they'll tell you anything.

Right, Hawking bases alien encounters off human interactions, of course, because that's all he and the rest of us have observed. It's in no way brilliant. Many scifi authors have explored the idea long before Hawking. That's VERY simple and predictable...and fun. I'm not saying it's impossible.

You're saying an entity who could create life on our planet is improbable, I think, right? Or, is it improbable that an alien race seeded our existing planet with life? Or, is it simply improbable if we call the entity God and refer to the religious writings of our choice?

Science does NOT predict that there are parallel universes. Science needs parallel universes to exist to explain away that we are here in this universe. There's NO predicting this. You're fooling yourself. This is science formulated from agenda and might as well be science fiction.

I just want to remind those that think the Bible is a total work of fiction that many archaeological finds have been made from the information in that book. Many of the "stories" are also confirmed in contemporary historian's writings. Just because science hasn't found a way for us to walk on water, change water into wine, or heal a blind man doesn't mean it is pure fantasy for it to have happened. Many of our scientific advances were once thought of as impossible feats.

not a "total work of fiction" regarding some of the historical events, others, maybe a bit more so.

we know that you can't change the color of sheep (or their offspring) by putting rocks and sticks in their watering holes. (like Jacob supposedly did) .

or not.

Even if he is ... what kind of eternal punishment could be worse than the punishment the man's served during his life?

It's hard to imagine much worse than the greatest living mind being trapped in an ever-degrading, diseased human husk.

That is the worst part about being an atheist... we are cheated out of being able to tell all those religious folks "see, I told you so!" Very frustrating really.

"Greatest living mind"................I dought it. No God, No Peace.....Know God, Know Peace.

No gods. No problems. I love my life.

think you have it backwards, it should be..... know god- no peace,...... that is why all these religious nuts want to fight wars with anyone that doesn't agree with their religions, and that includes most, if not all religions

@ Eric-1882221

Since when has God EVER been about peace? Jihad or Crusade, they are both the same thing - more atrocities, ethnic cleansing and wars have been attributed to Gods than any other reason.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

~ Epicurus

God is just. How many bad things have you done in your life? don't you deserve punishment?

God is not willing to punish us, but w deserve it. it's like ur parents. Do you think they want to punish you? They have to you little idiot.

@ put put

If god is so just then why does he allow for the innocent to suffer? Why does he allow evil and corruption to run rampant throughout world leadership in all of history - even until today? Why are babies born with birth defects? Why is there disease and famine and hunger? Why is 99% of the worlds money in less than 0.1% of the worlds elite?

God is just - surely you jest.

put put- religion is the most solipsitic belief system ever formed and thus the most egocentric. The belief that the ENTIRE universe was created with humans at the center as the "special" beings that God is intimately concerned with and cares for. That's not narcissitical at all!! I would say you are the jacked up egocentric individual.

God is just yet he wants to punish billions for not prostrating themselves to worship his eminence even if they live decent lives. He HAS to do it, as you pointed out. Wait a minute...I thought God could do anything? Surely he could....forgive...surely he doesn't HAVE to dole out eternal torment? Surely 3 commandments for worship seem a tad egotistical? Why isn't there anything about rape and child abuse in those 10 commandments? God is just? Yeah, ok.

God is Spirit based on love.

Fundamental Religion is based on guilt. God is Universal Spirit based on Universal Law. There is no heaven & hell. We reap what we sow. And we do it within this lifetime. Everyone of us is where we have put ourself. Rich or poor. Our thoughts and our words determin our place in life. There is no one or no thing to blame.

God allows us to choose. His greatest gift to us is our abilty to choose, or our agency. This life is a test to see if we will choose good and choose him above all else. He allows us to choose good or evil so that he can see our true nature. If he stopped bad things from happening in our world then he would be removing our agency, or abilty to choose, from us. He would never do that. All things will be made just in the end and those who have been harmed because of the choices of others will be justified.

@ ivanho75

Yeah I forgot about those commandments, that was a nice one. Also I remember one of the major biblical characters, that Jesus dude, saying something about judge not lest ye be judged, love thy neighbor, caring for the "least of these" etc...

I always liked this quote:

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

~Mohandas Gandhi

@ Shakes His Lance

We reap what we sow. And we do it within this lifetime. - your kidding right???

All too often the well connected get out of any sort of punishment for their crimes, warmongers and corrupt officials often live in the lap of luxury at the expense of others.

Everyone of us is where we have put ourself. Rich or poor.

Try telling that to the millions of common folks who lost their life savings to the economy crash of '08 perpetrated by liars and swindlers.

Our thoughts and our words determin our place in life. There is no one or no thing to blame.

Yeah your right, Hitler wasn't to blame for the holocaust, those Jews had it coming!

@ Truth Never Changes

Right, keep drinkin' that Kool-Aid.

God gave you the ability to chose between good and evil did he, and he also made the rules about what is good and what is evil, its all black and white - no gray area at all.

Thing is religion claims that god is omnipotent, so he already knows if your going to choose good or evil - so why the test? Is he really that arrogant that he must prove himself to...... well...... himself?

When you understand God's plan i.e. where we came from, why we are here, where we are going, and what he expects of us, it is not hard at all to decern between good and evil....practice makes perfect. We are practicing while we are here on this earth.

@1 independant mind As far the omnipotence of God...Yes he is omnipotent but we still have the ability to choose. He is our Father, therefore, like any other good father, he knows his children well. Just as I know my children so well that I can predict what they will do in any given situation. Just because I have a fairly accurate idea about what they will choose does in no way mean that I can, in some way, take away thier ability to make a different choice than the one I think they will make. You are confused about the nature of God. He is a loving and kind Father.

@ Truth

What plan? To create life only to know the outcome of each individual and punish the vast majority of them for not bending to his every will and desire?

There is no point to it, no plan - if he already knows the outcome. Why not just create only those who will do good? Why create all of this only to willingly inflict eternal pain on most of what he has created. If he does not want to inflict the pain then why is it that only a select few will be spared from it? Sounds more like a kid burning ants than an all loving just creator.

His plan for us to come to this earth, recieve a body of flesh and blood, learn to choose good from evil by practicing and experiencing the consequences of our choices, be they be good or bad. How would this life be a test of our true natures if he created children who would do only good or only bad? How would it be a test for us if he has it all planned for us. It is not all planned, we can make our OWN decisions about what we do with our time here....who is taking your choices away??? No one...:) We get to choose..we don't get to choose the consequences. We don't get to choose the actions of others and sometimes we are hurt by those actions but we can still choose to allow those challenges to make us better.

@ Truth

How is it a test at all if the outcome is already determined? Why not just give the good the body and let you enjoy eternal bliss because he already knows you will choose good? No reason to test something unless you are unaware of the outcome. Unless he wants to give the good a little bit of the pain he will inflict upon the evil in this little "test" of his.

For the "evil" - choices made in what would essentially amount to a blink of an eye commands that you receive ETERNAL punishment for choices made in such a small time frame of existence, quite appropriate for your all loving sky daddy.

Essentially what you are inferring by your blabbering on about a plan is that god does not know the outcome, he only has suspicions that must be tested. In which case he is not omnipotent and leaves the entirety of other things surrounding him to come into question.

Anyway I grow tired of this, simple logic contradicts all that religion is based on - faith.

Faith: noun - Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.

All religions require faith without proof, obedience without question and suffering without exception. If there is a god, of which I am certain there is not in as much as the faithful are certain that there is (at least not any god that any religion has created), then surely he is nothing more than a malevolent trickster who creates life in order to worship his ego.

@Seriously...

I love this new definition of science:

Science (from Latin: scientia meaning "knowledge") is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world.^[1][2][3][4]An older and closely related meaning still in use today is that of Aristotle, for whom scientific knowledge was a body of reliable knowledge that can be logically and rationally explained

Even the definition of science must change over time. At any rate, with a definition like that, who cares about its answers for the questions we're discussing. Those answers would be your mental masturbation.

"The key, underlying difference is that old scientific theorems are replaced by those that can explain the same, and new phenomena more accurately, with better predictability." Just not necessarily truthfully. You accept that that's the best you can offer right now, and you're fine with that. There is truth, and if observable, science can prove it. LOL.

Not all follow God blindly as not all follow science blindly. Probably all of us do some of one or the other. I understand science, but don't follow it blindly. I understand what I believe about God to be true, and do not believe I'm following it blindly in the same sense that I choose to believe what I'm told about some things. What portion of science will you admit you do follow blindly, meaning you accept what you're told or have learned from others? You yourself are not reproducing all results, therefore you're following much of it blindly. It's ok.

"But they are still head-and-shoulders above those that deny scientific explanation entirely." This is completely illogical. Does anyone honestly deny all scientific explanation entirely???

You can say advanced math and calculus as much as you want, but you're still talking about creating models to predict and many times predict what you can never observe in order to prove. It's still kind of just a fun game in the absence of observation. I enjoy it too. But, torture numbers, and they'll tell you anything.

Right, Hawking bases alien encounters off human interactions, of course, because that's all he and the rest of us have observed. It's in no way brilliant. Many scifi authors have explored the idea long before Hawking. That's VERY simple and predictable...and fun. I'm not saying it's impossible.

You're saying an entity who could create life on our planet is improbable, I think, right? Or, is it improbable that an alien race seeded our existing planet with life? Or, is it simply improbable if we call the entity God and refer to the religious writings of our choice?

Science does NOT predict that there are parallel universes. Science needs parallel universes to exist to explain away that we are here in this universe. There's NO predicting this. You're fooling yourself. This is science formulated from agenda and might as well be science fiction.

@ivanho75,

"Why isn't there anything about rape and child abuse in those 10 commandments? God is just? Yeah, ok." That statement is just as narcissistic as you claim the religious are. Who's justice? Yours? Your country's? Your culture's? The media's?

People tell you over and over that this higher entity is a creator of those people, and part of your argument is why doesn't this higher being share our same societal sense of justice. Just saying. It's an illogical typical argument. Why don't all of us on this planet share the same sense of justice as each other.

Oh wait, there are some core elements we do seem to share, but that's another discussion.

After reading Toms comment I just had to post one more time...

@ Tom

You're right, Jesus did say suffer the little children to come unto me. He must have meant he wanted to grab on their junk, because it wasn't against the 10 commandments - and since he was a Jew those were his covenants.

Oh wait, there are some core elements we do seem to share, but that's another discussion.

And none of them require a religion to accept.

@1, "And none of them require a religion to accept."

Of course not. Nor a creator. Fact is, you have to accept them and then create a model to predict them. Uh oh.

Tom -

It's not an illogical argument. But you do highlight one the condrumns, which is that God seems to operate on a moral plane different from most humans, hence the ol' "only God knows why argument". This must be the case because events occur which seem to contradict human morality in which God could intervene. So your left with a tautology. Either God has a different morality than humans, which really makes following his prophets a confusing issue, or our conception of God is wrong. It would be more in keeping with Occam's Razor that our conception of God is wrong than the infinitely baffling idea that God operates on a different moral plane where things occur that are unacceptable to humans but acceptable to him, since we are his creations.

This rationalize is necessary for religion to maintain its facade of benevolence. I'll go with my conscience. If that is unacceptable to God oh well. Maybe God is malicious? Who's to say God is telling the truth in anything? All people have suggested is the existence of a power which can control human destiny.

1 Independent Mind -

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

God is both willing and able. He limits evil, but he will never remove man's free will. It is the one thing he gave us that he has decided never to revoke. Ultimately we will love him or hate him and in the end that free will love or hate will determine which side we are on.

Judging an omnipotent and omniscient being's plan and purpose with our limited abilities and knowledge, is akin to having an ant tell us we are evil simply because we destroy ant colonies.

yes, once we've blown this place to smithereens!

rtabel-723220

...but no religion has caused nothing...

You do realize you are in absolute agreement with Bill-2713506, right?

Let that double-negative sink in for a little bit ^_^

Did you really support your point?

If your you're going to defend you're religion, at least use some propper grammer. I can't take you seriously when you say a double negative like "but no religion has caused nothing" that means you're AGREEING with Bill!!!

You're right, religion has done more harm than good, but who said that God approved of religion? No one!! Even Christ Himself abhorred what religion was doing. I believe in Heaven and I also believe there will be no Baptists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Lutherans or any of the such residing there. There will only be souls who have accepted the One who really created them as His personal Savior.

I have seen people who are so heavenly minded they are of no earhtly good, but I have also seen those who are so earthly minded they are of no heavenly good.

How is it the religious here are so certain he is wrong, when you are simply making an assumption God does exist?

The difference is you tell us not believing will take us to hell. Do you really wonder why people see religion as nothing more than hypocrisy. Or how believing in God is nothing more than your fear of not believing?

Not so my friend. American revolution, War of 1812, Civil War, World War I, World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam Conflict, are all examples of wars within the recent centuries that have no religious backing. If you want to look farther back in time, conflicts like the 100 years war, War of the Roses, Mongol Expansion, had not much if any to do with religion (however this is not to say that there were not conflicts based on religion, or with minor religious undertones, such as the Reconquista, which they're certainly were). Some may argue that WWII had religious undertone because of hitlers claims of catholicism, however most can see that it is based on a pure hatred and superiority complex of his aryan race, as hitler persecuted those who stood in the way of his goals (some of them being christians and other religions) also. In fact, the nations that have the highest fatality ration are the former U.S.S.R at 61 million, and Communist China with 50 to 60 million killed under the current government. Both of these nations are (were in the case of the USSR) proclaimed athiest nations due to the doctrines of the state. Point being, the argument that religion has done more harm than good is more based on past events like the Christian and Muslim conflict in the crusades, and the Spanish Inquisition. While I disagree with Mr. Hawking about heaven not existing, I recognize his opinion and his right to have that opinion. If would like the continue this debate, please keep it friendly. I can see our beliefs differ on this subject, but theirs no need to result to name calling or insults. Have a pleasant day!

Correction - Wars are fought for the control of vital economic or trade reosurces and Religion is just a tool of controllers to provide a cultural social moral construct and a rallying flash point to incite the masses when needed. Most people of all types of belief and cultural background, if left to their own, want the same things for themsleves and posterity - an opportunity to advance and better quality of life (however they value it). Religion can be advantageous (when it lifts mankind as a whole and manages to elevate them above their baser nature) and negative (when it inculcates and normalizes double standards & deceptive destructive social behaviors).

You can boil religion down into its simplest form. It is each and every person of belief wanting to believe they are special or "chosen" or more privileged so that they feel better about themselves, excuse their own mistreatment of others, and their course in life. Many religious constructs provide sound foundational teachings on how people should behave to maximize humankinds interpersonal dealings. Some do not. Love the Dog Hate the behavior : )

Not so my friend. American revolution, War of 1812, Civil War, World War I, World War II, the Korean War, the Vietnam Conflict, are all examples of wars within the recent centuries that have no religious backing. If you want to look farther back in time, conflicts like the 100 years war, War of the Roses, Mongol Expansion, had not much if any to do with religion (however this is not to say that there were not conflicts based on religion, or with minor religious undertones, such as the Reconquista, which they're certainly were). Some may argue that WWII had religious undertone because of hitlers claims of catholicism, however most can see that it is based on a pure hatred and superiority complex of his aryan race, as hitler persecuted those who stood in the way of his goals (some of them being christians and other religions) also. In fact, the nations that have the highest fatality ration are the former U.S.S.R at 61 million, and Communist China with 50 to 60 million killed under the current government. Both of these nations are (were in the case of the USSR) proclaimed athiest nations due to the doctrines of the state. Point being, the argument that religion has done more harm than good is more based on past events like the Christian and Muslim conflict in the crusades, and the Spanish Inquisition. While I disagree with Mr. Hawking about heaven not existing, I recognize his opinion and his right to have that opinion. If would like the continue this debate, please keep it friendly. I can see our beliefs differ on this subject, but theirs no need to result to name calling or insults. Have a pleasant day!

The gods and peoples' religious beliefs have done a great service to us. it's called population thinning. either by natural disaster or through acts of war and cleansing.

Proof that God has a sense of humor.... "Intellectuals"

Hawking says, "Science predicts that many different kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing. It is a matter of chance which we are in." In actuality, science NEEDS that to be the case, but, unfortunately, there's zero observable evidence for it. Sounds ironically like a faith-based belief to me.

Hawking also believes that marauding aliens will be bent on conquering the earth. Again, not based on observable science.

Put his beliefs together, and you might as well believe that aliens seeded earth. Why not. However, it's not far from other creationist beliefs.

You choose to believe or not in parallel universes and how reproducing life began from nothing. You also accept the entire ball of wax of evolution without question. Maybe you do or you don't believe T Rexes had feathers, or you will when the scientific concensus tells you to believe that. You choose to believe what you're told by people who've chosen to believe what they've been told not being very critical about the theories you can't prove. It's not very different from religion at all...except you keep saying your entire belief set is about the observable which just isn't true. You try to predict and theorize. It's fine, but it's not truth.

Santa Claus is real!!! I read a book that said so and when I got up on christmas there was a half eaten cookie and the milk was almost gone! I saw it with my own eyes!!!

Jimmer-3480147 - I find it sad when people use the word 'intellectual' as a put down.

Is it better to be 'un-intellectual' Jimmer? Shall we praise stupidity and ignorance and stone the ones who claim the earth is round? Should we worship celebrity and disregard critical thinking? Fine.. I'll be on the couch tonight watching Access Hollywood or E! news or some other mind numbing pacifier.

If your you're going to defend you're religion, at least use some propper grammer. I can't take you seriously when you say a double negative like "but no religion has caused nothing" that means you're AGREEING with Bill!!!

I'm Bored,

Hopefully, you intentionally wrote these awful, tragic sentences to illustrate your frustration with bad grammar.

That being said:

I don't believe in god, per se, but I understand why people do. I'm okay with it.

The concept of hell is just silly.

Excerpts:

Michael Persinger, a neuropsychologist at Canada's Laurentian University in Sudbury, Ontario.

His theory is that the sensation described as "having a religious experience" is merely a side effect of our bicameral brain's feverish activities. Simplified considerably, the idea goes like so: When the right hemisphere of the brain, the seat of emotion, is stimulated in the cerebral region presumed to control notions of self, and then the left hemisphere, the seat of language, is called upon to make sense of this nonexistent entity, the mind generates a "sensed presence."

Persinger has tickled the temporal lobes of more than 900 people before me and has concluded, among other things, that different subjects label this ghostly perception with the names that their cultures have trained them to use - Elijah, Jesus, the Virgin Mary, Mohammed, the Sky Spirit.

It may seem sacrilegious and presumptuous to reduce God to a few ornery synapses, but modern neuroscience isn't shy about defining our most sacred notions - love, joy, altruism, pity - as nothing more than static from our impressively large cerebrums.

www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html

Excerpts:

Is There a "God Spot" in the Human Brain?

The question of whether or not god is real is often an all consuming one in our lives, however it has been suggested by suggested by scholars of numerous disciplines that god, may in fact be a product of the human mind.

Recent discoveries in neurobiology have led some scientists to believe that there may be a specific part of the brain that causes religious feelings in humans. The temporal lobe has been identified as a possible "god spot" in the brain, as temporal lobe seizures have been known to induce personality changes including increased "philosophic religiosity"(1). One scientist who has explored the possibility of the "god spot" in the temporal lobe is Michael Persinger. Persinger has suggested that belief in god, specifically spiritual experiences in which one feels as if they are interacting with god may stems from seizures or electromagnetic stimulation in the temporal lobe of the brain.

In order to test his theory, Persinger developed the "god helmet", which emits weak electromagnetic fields that are meant to stimulate the temporal lobe (2). In this paper I would like to explore the idea of the "god spot" in the brain, through both Persinger's "god helmet" experiments and like minded ones.

In conducting his "god helmet" experiments, Persinger studied a number of cases in which patients claimed to have had religious visions, or to have communed with God in some way, that may have been effected by increased electromagnetic stimulation to the temporal lobe (4).

One of these cases was a young woman who had a felt a presence which she believed to be God, late at night (4). During these instances of a sensed presence, the woman felt stimulation in her vagina and uterus and claimed to feel a the outline of a baby on her left shoulder (4). She interpreted this stimulation as a signal that God had chosen her to have a child (4). It was then discovered that the young woman had sustained injuries to her left frontal lobes as a child which had never caused any irregularities up to that point (4). The young woman did, however sleep with an electronic clock close to her head which may have evoked an electromagnetic field strong enough to cause electrical seizures in the temporal lobe (4).

serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/7389

@Seriously...

I love this new definition of science:

Science (from Latin: scientia meaning "knowledge") is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world.^[1][2][3][4]An older and closely related meaning still in use today is that of Aristotle, for whom scientific knowledge was a body of reliable knowledge that can be logically and rationally explained

Even the definition of science must change over time. At any rate, with a definition like that, who cares about its answers for the questions we're discussing. Those answers would be your mental masturbation.

"The key, underlying difference is that old scientific theorems are replaced by those that can explain the same, and new phenomena more accurately, with better predictability." Just not necessarily truthfully. You accept that that's the best you can offer right now, and you're fine with that. There is truth, and if observable, science can prove it. LOL.

Not all follow God blindly as not all follow science blindly. Probably all of us do some of one or the other. I understand science, but don't follow it blindly. I understand what I believe about God to be true, and do not believe I'm following it blindly in the same sense that I choose to believe what I'm told about some things. What portion of science will you admit you do follow blindly, meaning you accept what you're told or have learned from others? You yourself are not reproducing all results, therefore you're following much of it blindly. It's ok.

"But they are still head-and-shoulders above those that deny scientific explanation entirely." This is completely illogical. Does anyone honestly deny all scientific explanation entirely???

You can say advanced math and calculus as much as you want, but you're still talking about creating models to predict and many times predict what you can never observe in order to prove. It's still kind of just a fun game in the absence of observation. I enjoy it too. But, torture numbers, and they'll tell you anything.

Right, Hawking bases alien encounters off human interactions, of course, because that's all he and the rest of us have observed. It's in no way brilliant. Many scifi authors have explored the idea long before Hawking. That's VERY simple and predictable...and fun. I'm not saying it's impossible.

You're saying an entity who could create life on our planet is improbable, I think, right? Or, is it improbable that an alien race seeded our existing planet with life? Or, is it simply improbable if we call the entity God and refer to the religious writings of our choice?

Science does NOT predict that there are parallel universes. Science needs parallel universes to exist to explain away that we are here in this universe. There's NO predicting this. You're fooling yourself. This is science formulated from agenda and might as well be science fiction.

People say that religion has fueled more wars and human misery than anything else. I say that it is science itself that has provided the tools for the wars and the misery. Since man first picked up a rock and used it against his brother, science has had its hand in making that rock bigger, better, deadlier and able to kill more people with each use.

Having said that, science has also done much good in society as well. To that end, so has Christianity. Just ask a western world woman who does not have to walk a few steps behind her husband if she wants to live in a world where that isn't the case. Our laws, for the most part, are based on Christian ideals.

Shawn Pete, our laws are not based on Christian ideals. Read the bible to find out why not.

It is a perpetuated form of populace control - no one has to stop the evil people in power, because god will make it right. Therefore, the mice play while the cats all fight amongst themselves. It is so effective because everyone wants to think they are special - they will be saved while those 'wrong' people will suffer. What kind god would say "I'm lonely, I'll create some <imperfect> people to worship me. vNow, I have made you, kneel befre me or suffer forever! But, you have the choice."

Note that a perfect being cannot create imperfection, lest he be imperfect.

What kind of world do think this would be without God wathing over it . It is crazy enough , if every person in this world just decided to take and do what they wanted and I mean every person , how long do you think this place would last, someone may go over and put a bullet in in Hawkins head just because they didnt agree with him. Thank God God is watching over us.

What kind of world without God watching over it? Why exactly the kind of world we have.

Mike -

All your statement has done is say what YOU would do without fear of eternal reprisal. I guess you would be humping goats, fornicating with onions, raping and pillaging, etc, etc, without that lake of fire waiting huh?? But guess what? All those things you say people would do without God, I and many, many others already don't do without "God". In fact, simply game theory shows us that cooperation evolved because it is a far more effective survival mechanism than everyone bonking each other over the head when they aren't looking.

Hawking says, "Science predicts that many different kinds of universe will be spontaneously created out of nothing. It is a matter of chance which we are in." In actuality, science NEEDS that to be the case, but, unfortunately, there's zero observable evidence for it. Sounds ironically like a faith-based belief to me.

Hawking also believes that marauding aliens will be bent on conquering the earth. Again, not based on observable science.

Put his beliefs together, and you might as well believe that aliens seeded earth. Why not. However, it's not far from other creationist beliefs.

You choose to believe or not in parallel universes and how reproducing life began from nothing. You also accept the entire ball of wax of evolution without question. Maybe you do or you don't believe T Rexes had feathers, or you will when the scientific concensus tells you to believe that. You choose to believe what you're told by people who've chosen to believe what they've been told not being very critical about the theories you can't prove. It's not very different from religion at all...except you keep saying your entire belief set is about the observable which just isn't true. You try to predict and theorize. It's fine, but it's not truth.

Tom - don't repost please. It takes up space. BTW - they have observed matter spontaneously come into existence, albeit very briefly, at the Hadron Collider.

I readily admit that Stephen Hawking is a brilliant man. Intelligent, resourceful and fearless. But for all his wisdom, he's lost sight of what truly matters. "The fool says in his heart, there is not God."- Psalm 14.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."- Genesis 1:1 Isn't it ironic that the first verse of The Bible refutes evolution and atheism. God does exist. Many wish to deceive themselves into believing that there is no God. If they could truly apprehend God and understand that He is a loving God who doesn't want anyone to perish, but sent Jesus so that we might be saved. God sent Jesus to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins. Repent of your sin. Turn to God and trust in His forgiveness. Then we will truly look forward to Heaven which is described for us in Revelation 7, "Never again will they hunger, never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them nor any scorching heat. For The Lamb at the center of the throne will be there Shepherd. He will lead them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes." See you in Heaven, Brady

Brady - "Created the heavens and the Earth" doesn't refute evolution. Evolution could easily be a part of "God's plan". It also doesn't refute atheism, which is simply a lack of a belief in a theistic supernatural being. How does an unproveable assertion in a bronze age text disprove atheism?? It doesn't prove squadoochie.

Brady,

I simply can't accept passages from a book designed to promote the belief in a god as proof that there is a god.

It's like believing in Bilbo Baggins and citing excerpts from "The Hobbit" as your evidence.

Also, would you really describe any god who is willing to burn you for eternity for not worshipping him as "loving"? I would probably describe him as petty. Or prideful. Or vengeful.

btone - which is highly anthropomorphic. Who knew God would be so egotistical, capricious, and so...well...HUMANLIKE.

The first 3 commandments are all about worshipping God and not one thing about rape, child abuse, etc, etc. Interesting....

Wow, there are so many astonishingly silly comments it's difficult to pick one to reply too. You win!

Tell me, DaTroofHurts: Hypothetically, let's say we momentarily give your imperfection premise credence so that you may defend it. Exactly how do you know a perfect being cannot create imperfection? Is it because you know you are imperfect and to your imperfect way of thinking no perfect being therefore could have possibly created you? But then this line of reasoning spoils your premise perfectly because you admit from the start you are imperfect! On the other hand, you could say you are perfect and because you are perfect you can say with perfect assuredness that a perfect being cannot create imperfection. But then this line of reasoning even more perfectly disproves your own premise because it directly proves that what you state is perfectly false. So please, explain to me more perfectly this perfectly implausible perfect being you have constructed from silly logic that disproves itself.

Man was created in gods image...by god. Ever look in a mirror? We are as godlike as god is humanlike! Imperfection means you are never wrong, god says in the BIBLE many times that he made an error. I tend to assume people actually read the bible but maybe they just listen to the pastor. God, christ, satan, the angels and so on all have so many human traits. Is it that we are in his image or vice versa?

Imperfection means you are never wrong

no, perfection means you are never wrong.

so if god is perfect and can't make mistakes, how did he make a mistake?

senselessness

There IS a God, I hope everyone comes to their senses before its too late for them. Hawking is a bitter old man, who uses science as a shield from the truth. God is perfect, it is WE who are not! God gave us the ability to choose our fate....if it gets screwed up....its OUR fault, not God's. But still He is there to pick us up and dust us off and say "Have a go at it again, I will be here to catch you if you fall again". That is what God is all about.

@ivanho75,

"Why isn't there anything about rape and child abuse in those 10 commandments? God is just? Yeah, ok." That statement is just as narcissistic as you claim the religious are. Who's justice? Yours? Your country's? Your culture's? The media's?

People tell you over and over that this higher entity is a creator of those people, and part of your argument is why doesn't this higher being share our same societal sense of justice. Just saying. It's an illogical typical argument. Why don't all of us on this planet share the same sense of justice as each other?

What does God think about when he thinks about you?

If Jesus isn't the center of your life here - then you probably would'nt like heaven, and maybe won't even get to go.

All he knows is Birth and Death. What is the Universe and the Hand that controls is it to a man that lives purely in his head.

Anyone with a heart could tell you a different story.

Like the pryamids he 2 will fade.

Spoiled children pick at their food.

All he knows is Birth and Death. What is the Universe and the Hand that controls is it to a man that lives purely in his head.

Anyone with a heart could tell you a different story.

Like the pryamids he 2 will fade.

Spoiled children pick at their food.

Tom - quit f$%king reposting already. Some of us read these threads. We don't just assume ours is the only one worth reading.

Hawking also believes that marauding aliens will be bent on conquering the earth. Again, not based on observable science.

no, he said that if two unequal civilizations were to meet, the less advanced one would probably disappear.

plenty of evidence for that based on what has happened here through our own history.

Seems like people are always learning but never coming to the truth. Once again his opinions are weighted more heavily than truth.

God doesn't feel threatened to prove Himself. He knows who we are and who He is, even if we don't want to acknowledge what He's done. Furthermore He doesn't have to share His blueprint for creation with anyone - its His work.

I have much respect for Dr. Hawking, he certainly has a brilliant mind. Unfortunately, I wouldn't put much weight to any of his comments beyond his field of expertise. He may be an expert in the physical sciences but he has no knowledge of matters related to God or afterlife because he has probably never tried to approach God in humility.

@iseeconfusedpeople

"no, he said that if two unequal civilizations were to meet, the less advanced one would probably disappear. plenty of evidence for that based on what has happened here through our own history."

Right, so in the absence of universal evidence, create a simple model based on local data.

Anyway, here's what he said:

"We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet," Hawking said. "I imagine they might exist in massive ships ... having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonize whatever planets they can reach.”

The reason I keep on this is that these simple models are not representative of truth, but valued by their predictive success, which brings us back to the beginning in so many words.

Can Hawking really predict how alien life would treat us based on how we treat each other? Can you really hope to predict how a creator of our life would treat us based on how we treat ourselves? And be accurate? No. Can you predict a parallel universe because that would help you make sense of our known universe? No.

yea you will find out when you die but then that would be too late, you're not gonna be able to change anything, and this is assuming there is an after life.

When you die, you will be decomposing meat. You will not be able to rationalize anything and the only thing going through your mind will be a fascinating array of bacteria and fungus competing with each other for your decaying proteins.

What would be too late? Are you trying to argue that those who lead moral, ethical and wonderful lives need to "change" because they don't believe as you do? Wouldnt'they be hypocritical and weak if they simply accepted your version of an after life because YOU said so, rather than following their own reasoning?

Sean - you illustrate an interesting point which is it's very silly to describe what these people experience who "saw the light" as what actually happens AFTER death since THEY AREN'T REALLY DEAD.

if you open up to God you will not have to wait till you die just give your heart to him and you will go to HEAVEN!!!that's right steven their is one!!!

to scientists, matter and anti-matter is their religion, their gods hahaha

Kenny B, you've nailed it. He is a scientist pure and simple. There is no scientific proof that heaven exists. Hawking is merely stating the obvious. If heaven's existence is proven by scientific method then maybe we'll all become believers, but in the interim show me the proof or STFU.

Well he's doing far more than stating the obvious or it wouldn't get people so riled up. This is a very, very smart man of science who says he believes life can be explained without belief in a God. If that statement were "obvious" you wouldn't see so-called Christians here condemning him to hell for having stated it.

I was an amatuer astronomer in my youth. I hold degrees in Earth Science and in Geology. I believe in evolution, and I also believe in God, Jesus Christ and the after life. I find that there is no conflict in my mind among them.

However I do take exception when someone as prestigious as Stephen Hawkings, ridicules my belief in heaven as a "fairy tale". Here is why.

I find it a fairy tale that at the moment of The Big Bang, ALL the Matter of the Universe was consentrated into an INFINITLEY DENSE and INFINITLEY SMALL point called a singularity! Explain how that is possible.

I also find multiverses as pertaining to cosmology, and string theory as fairy tales.

I think Stephen Hawking (whom I consider a great scientist), should stick to what he does best: science. And stay out of areas that he has no expertise: religion. He is after all, an atheist.

RockDoctor -

Just because we can't explain the singularity doesn't mean that a particular theistic religion is true. As I am sure you realize, it's a non-sequitur. It doesn't logically follow that the inablility to fully explain the origins of the big bang means that Christianity is necessarily true. All you've done is point out the current limits of our understanding. To use that as an attempt to discredit Stephen Hawkings or science in general is a little silly.

As you've rightly pointed out, it's just a matter of faith. I wish religious people would have the balls of Quintus Septimius FlorensTeurtullian who said, "I believe precisely because it's absurd". That's a faith I can respect, even if I can't have it myself.

I also take a wee exception to the idea than anyone is an "expert" on religion. How can anyone be an "expert" of make believe? If faith is the cornerstone of religion and faith is, de facto, belief in something for which there is no evidence how can anyone be an expert??

Ivanho75,

Actually, you can be an expert on religion. Different religious factions have rich written histories, political histories, and evolutions of their own. You can be an expert on these things.

Of course, I'm arguing semantics. I'm sure your point was that no one can be an expert on God, because there is no evidence of God to gain knowledge about.

ivanho75, I am not using the inability to explain a singularity as the source of the entire universe to explain the existence of my God. What I AM saying is that the singularity CANNOT be proven and as such is a big fairy tale of modern physics. Saying that "we've reached the current limit's of our understanding" is an inadequate answer. As human beings with finite brains, we will always be at the limit of our understanding, whatever our level of understanding is.

I did not try to discredit Hawking or science. If you read closely (silly you) you would have understood that I have a very strong science background and am a professional scientist. And I stated that I considered Hawking a great scientist.

I am not trying to convert you, and I am not trying to ridicule Your beliefs. All I ask is that those that don't believe as I do, afford me the same courtesy. Unfortunately, Mr. Hawking in his statement to the Guardian, crossed that line.

I thought Mr. H. was dead already!

Well, he has had rigor mortis for quite some time.

@ivanho75, but it's not absurd. You're using terms that appeal to you or express your level of belief or understanding. I actually doubt you have much real eduction on Bible history and minimal on religious history.

"I also take a wee exception to the idea than anyone is an "expert" on religion. How can anyone be an "expert" of make believe? If faith is the cornerstone of religion and faith is, de facto, belief in something for which there is no evidence how can anyone be an expert??"

It's actually illogical to call it "make believe". But, which part of what do you think is make believe?

Anyway, which parts of science do you believe in that there is no evidence for? Oh, I forgot, you believe in what science predicts to be true in the absence of, well, truth and observation or what others who hold concensus tell you what is predicted by the model. No matter what you call it, it's not rational faithless truth if you can't observe it.

Ignorant of what truth?

When did "truth" become a religious term synonymous with dogma?

It's a similar business practice as associative branding. When a company is trying to improve the perceived value of their product/service, the try to associate it with something that has a clear(er) and more well known intrinsic value to their prospective market.

In the case of Religion:Truth, religion is trying to ride on the coat tails of truth.

Truth = verifiable, reproducible, testable

Religion = faith based, dogmatic, ritualistic

This form, like most forms of associative branding is just a means of taking your money

In actuality, religion is to truth as toothfairy is to potato

As a mere human being, I cannot state definite truths about God or the Afterlife. However, I am fortunate to have faith that there is a God and a "heaven". In view of my experiences in life, it seems easier to me to believe in God than not to believe in God. It makes more sense.

Poor Steven! Certainly he is a genius in the world of science, but he cannot understand that there can be reality that cannot be captured and proven by scientific method.

Gardenia -

And you know this how?? If it exists outside the physical realm then your assertion, which is formulated in the physical realm is, de facto, a contradiction. To wit, it's a tautology. Either it TRUELY exists outside the known universe or it doesn't. An attempt to explain or describe something outside of of physical dimension by using constructs invented in and limited by the physical dimension is irrational and impossible. To have knowledge of this supernatural one would have to be like a Kierkegaardian "Knight of Faith", alone and free to act independently of this world yet unable to convey such knowledge to this world.

When Jimmy Buffett dies, is he not going to Margaritaville Heaven? Or Hell? Or will he sail the Seas of Weed forever...

He believes there is no heaven because there is no evidence for it. What makes YOU so sure there IS one... other than blind faith?

Because the people that Paula-1353047 and her family pay good money to on a regular basis told her so. Those same people also told her parents that, and her parents before them even!

These people have been telling Paula-1353047's family for many generations

It's not like paying someone to tell you what you want to hear would leave any incentive for them to just lie, or make stuff up as they go along

Would it?

How Christian to relish the thought of someone who believes differently to suffer in eternity! Give me the hard cold ground instead of a vicious, malignant God any day.

I love it how Christians will laugh off the ridiculous notions that something like Islam or Zoroastrianism presents when Christian mythology is the most stunning bit of disorganized horse@!$%# fiction ever created.

I blame the lack on continuity and numerous plot-holes on their editorial staff, they really cut back on quality editors in the Council of Nicea!

Like Matrix 3, it would have been much better if they left in the unicorns revolution and Jesus riding his trusty velociraptor

You poor thing. I feel so sorry for you, but will pray for you!

im no saint was really into church at one time i feel ive lived in hell on earth growing up with a horrible chidhood that i wouldnt wish on hittler i dont think god will send me to hell and yes god is real but he knows our heart so believe in him u might have a better life after death oh and i didnt ask to be born

The Council of Nicea does not get to dictate or change what is in the Holy Bible. The Bible is translated from the same texts it has always been, and contains the same information it always has. Though languages the Bible is translated into have changed, the base texts it is translated from have not.

mr hawkings is gonna be in for a surprise, life has many choices mr hawking but eternity only two and sounds like you have chosen the wrong one and in a million years it will not even be the beginning of your wrong choice.

My question to the monothiests is this: What about all the humans who came before Jesus?... or Moses... or whoever the main character of your belief system is... What happens to them?... (And as I understand Christianity, since we've not yet had Judgement Day, no one is in Heaven.)... There are so many holes in the story... Texts, written by man... and you don't get the whole story... Which one is the "right" one?... (yours, of course, all the others are wrong)...

I guess we all find out in the end... But by then we are gone from this reality... And it won't make a bit of difference...

Thank you Doug, my thoughts exactally!

it sounds like you're scared of what happens if you don't believe and find out later you're wrong....is that belief or fear?

So basically you two only believe so just in case there is you've covered your @$$. Amazing how ignorant you christians really are. Have any of you seen God? An angel? Ever talked to Jesus and had him talk back? If the answer to any of the above are yes then check yourself into a mental ward cause your cuckoo for jebus puffs. There is no Heaven or Hell its here on Earth and what you make your life out of. And for those of you getting on Mr Hawkings case look at him, Im disabled myself and agree with him completely. If there was a God why does he torture people or let millions of kids starve, women get raped, and wars without end continue? You christians are a joke. So quick to jump on people for abortion but if its sending people to die in the desert your all for it. "I like your christ its you christians I have a hard time understanding, your so unlike your christ" Ghandi

Otherwise known as Pascal's Wager. I think that a belief in heaven and hell is more than a fairy story, though... It's a deeply ingrained instinct in us to believe in a higher power, as well as some sort of a cosmic justice system that sees all and knows all, and that will reward the good, punish the bad and right the wronged.

Doug,

I agree, I believe in God and that Jesus is our Savior, I see good and evil everyday, I would rather believe and made to be fool in man's eyes than to not believe and miss out on what I truelly know in my heart is there. May God work thru our mistakes.

You're not afraid of death, you're simply afraid of god. Afraid of what you're parents have told you will happen when you were a small child.

Fear! religion is fear based to control the masses. The true fact is that none of us know. The ancient stories were fine for ancient times, but come on people have we not evolved to have more logic. Religion is not logical. Believe in it (just in case), then you really are not a believer. You just pretend to be, so you won't end up in the 1st circle of hell. As for me I'll believe it when I see it. No "man" is going to tell me what is or isn't, because we do not know. And if you hear god talking to you, you probably need medication. (just saying)

There's no athiests in a fox hole. Everything is too well designed not to have a designer. Just 1 mile closer to the sun or a little less nitrogen in what we breath, etc., etc. Well we wouldn't be talking about this. Further read up on Darwin and check out his last bit of theory.

Hypothetically, the reality of God, creation, purpose, free will living, and faith are born of extreme logic, correct "love", and unerring justice, but so many -people- with their abilities to think independently, and ego being so intrical in humanity, the whole notion has been distorted over and over. It's VERY EASY to intellectually defeat faith when you can use the myriad of opinion, cults, zealots, my god, your god, their god...it's just too easy to fight from thought. In a sit down opportunity, I could provide a very intriguing look into what is true on the side of God, in a non-emotional, logical, and challenging way. We would discuss scientific uncertainties that are core to our current limitations. Consider that TODAY we are the most infantile in terms of science as a people that we will ever be through time. We can't go backward and ignorant up...this is the baseline of our least understanding - TODAY. Tomorrow, Mr. Hawking, and all of us, given the chance to learn (no new illness, deterioration, etc.) we will know more tomorrow... consider 5,000 years from now looking back to 2011, how pitiful our understanding will look to all but understanding historians. I would welcome a live audience with Mr. Hawking, and I am not in the business of religion (that word has a definition), nor faith. If you 'hear' any of this, congrats, because english sucks as a language...so ambiguous at times. "That's not what I meant!" LOL

Apparently you believe that God rewards hypocrisy.

Christ is my savior and has granted me eternal life. I don't deny anyone their right to their belief, but to make an aggressive statement like "we" are all fools and idiots for believing in"fairy tales" makes any and all of your arguments, (at least), empty. I will pray for you to come around. That is if I can get to you before your spaceshift comes to bring you back to the Mother-ship!

jimbo: Actually, there are atheists in a foxhole, even though fear can win converts to religion, obviously. For every "well designed" thing there are many many more that are not well-designed at all. Darwin isn't proof or disproof of a God--it's simply a theory of evolution of life. What Hawkins says is that one does not have to believe in God to believe in life. Imminently reasonable.

I believe Steven Hawkings view on multiple universes and black holes to be fairy tails, as his physics are deeply flawed and generally unproven. so why do I even care if he says Heaven isn't real when his own theories are fundamentally flawed. to let people know that I wonder why we even listen to this man? I guess it must be sympathy.

Hey, heaven is there if you will have faith enough to see it. And see it you can

John

I am a christian and believe in God , Heaven and Hell. What I believe is not scientific but what I feel in my heart and with faith. I have seen many miracles, and have received them myself. I know that God is real, he hears our prayers and gives us a reason to continue on in this world. I feel sorry for the people who do not believe, If we(Christians ) are right - we will have a wonderful home in heaven some day, If we are wrong, we will have lost nothing. If those who chose not to believe are wrong- They are domed to an eternity in hell! I don't know about anyone else but I choose to live my life so that no matter what the reality when we die, I'm going to be ok, and not regretting my way of life. I don't think non Christians can say the same. I think that the only way to know that God is real is to give your life to him, when you do this there is no doubt that you are wrong. You know that God is real and living inside of you, helping you and loving you. This is a feeling that only a true Christian knows ! I feel truly sorry for those of you who do not believe, you are missing out on something wonderful and blessed!

Jimbo -

If things had been different then things would be different. Maybe life would have evolved to fit these different conditions. Ever think about that? There has been a recent discover involving a microbe that seems to have replaced silicon with arsenic as one of the essential building blocks of life. What does that mean? It means that because it exists in an arsenic rich environment it adapted to its environment. Kinda blows a hole in that whole "Diving Knob-Twiddler" argument. Also, if you read what Hawkings has theorized, he states that current models predict matter spontaneously coming into existence and of the existence of many different kinds of universes. Statistically rare things happen all the time on this planet. It's easy to imagine the rare occurence of life happening if enough universes come into existence.

Religion is the reason people have died ? HMMMMM....what religion were Hitler, Stalin, Mao and all the other dictators who have killed millions practicing? get your facts straight and your history. When people deny God and make themselves their own god, no one is safe.

Fairy tales? The one who is engaged in strange thinking is the one who does not acknowledge the evidence of a Creator .If someone were to walk into an art museum and insist that the artifacts and paintings and sculptures there were not created but were just the result of chance , he would be laughed out of town.

Newnews yes they made THEMSELVES gods. Also the reasons why they killed were not BECAUSE they were godless. Many leaders/countries go to war in the name of god. DO you recall any atheist leader saying "I START THIS WAR IN THE NAME OF NOT GOD!!!"

Newnews -

Who created the "Creator"?? If a "Creator" is necessary for existence then your "God" necessarily requires a creator by your own argument. Also, the matter necessary for the creation of artworks preexists the artist. It's a false comparison to the idea of a being that actually creates matter from nothing. It's as irrational an assumption as something spontaneously coming into existence. It also assumes a "beginning" in a linear sense, when in fact time is a variable woven into the fabric of the universe. Since we evolved to understand time as only linear, we can't comprehend the concept of time not functioning in that way. It's like a finite yet boundless universe. What is beyond the edge of the universe? There is no edge! Are the planets and galaxies really racing away from each other? Actually it's the space BETWEEN matter that is expanding, like dots on a ballon being blown up expanding away from each other. What is this space expanding into? Nothing! How can that be?

Humans have a limited comprehension of the universe because of the world we evolved to adapt to. Luckily we have mathematics, physics, science, etc to move our knowledge beyond apparent contradictions or dogmatic assumptions such as a "Creator".

BTW - Stalin taught his daughter about Jesus and I could link a zillion speeches from Hitler invoking God, the lord, and Christianity. Also you can't prove causation between atheism and any of the atrocities in the USSR, Nazi Germany, or China. At most there might be a correlation.

I believe Steven Hawkings view on multiple universes and black holes to be fairy tails, as his physics are deeply flawed and generally unproven

and do you have any evidence whatsoever for these supposed "flaws"?

if you answer "common sense" I will fall on the floor laughing at your ignorance.

How about we stop attacking each other and what "WE" think and go back to what GOD thinks.

Heb. 12:22 - "the heavenly Jerusalem"
And many more verses from the bible refers to the afterlife with our Savior.

At the end of the day we are biologically nothing but a simple atom that came out of matter. We can't comprehend anything besides our 2-dimensional state of mind. I don't care if you are a world renowned phycist, chemist, biologist, philosopher, etc... One day you will not be here and everyone will forget about you. But Jesus has never and will never be forgotten because He is the truth.

I can only pray that this "well-Known" physicist will one day be enlightened before he dies. Maybe God knows his heart and is patient with him because maybe he is veryyyy close to saving His soul.

May God Enlighten those who doubt. <3

mvg, which god? there are an awful lot of them out there, and probably every one is wrong (including yours)

if such an entity were to actually exist, it is fantastically unlikely that it is running around and concerning itself with our every move and whether or not we are heaping sufficient praise on it.

This dictator is pretty ignorant, of the opinions he is giving out. How could anyone really believe this guy that there is no God? I myself am a proud Muslim believer and I believe that God created everything for a reason to realize how great he is. He created our minds for a reason. To put our minds in action and understand what he created and why he created us. Life is a test. Everyone is tested either to do evil or good. Those who neglect religion and that believe there is no God. God will not help those that decide to follow that path and not put there trust in God. Those who strive to become better people in life and put there trust in faith, God will help them through there life. No offense to anyone these are the facts and this is the reality. So think about what the purpose of life is and change your ways before it's too late when judgement day starts. Who knows when judgement day is but remember this life is too short and you can die anytime upon God's will. Put forth action in gaining knowledge of religion and try to follow the straight way to success. Those who will be successful in the end are those who strive hard, struggle in there faith, ask Gods forgiveness for all of the sins they have committed, and never doubted faith no matter what.

wail, what "dictator" are you referring to? Hawking? he's a scientist, not a political ruler, he doesn't "dictate" over anybody.

get your facts right.

I don't understand the idea of preemptive belief. Pascal's Wager.

I don't believe because I simply don't. I can't. It's not my fault that I was born with a cynical, empirical brain that demands data and accurate information.

How can one believe just in case? I can say I believe, but can I really fool God into believing that I truly believe just in case?

exactly btone - Pascal's Wager is garbage by religions own claims about God.

How are you so sure about God's gender?

What if He's a hermaphrodite or asexual? aside from conjecture, where do you get your evidence for any of this?

^_^

I take it from your post that his is not the heart that needs "softening".

God is male! Only a male can rape a woman and make her pregnant, then disappear for 33 years and let her fend for herself.

6 billion people CAN be wrong

God is male! Only a male can rape a woman and make her pregnant, then disappear for 33 years and let her fend for herself.

Oh, well that's sexist, and you're completely underestimating a female God's ability to impregnate someone

Also, women are perfectly capable of raping just like men...and God is all powerful, so what's to stop a female god from impregnating a human female?

You know what though? The people on this vine who wish all of us well and wish us all eternal life are alright by me.

I'm not a believer, but that is a kind thought all the same.

May their God bless them.

Right on bro, and there is something much better on the way.

and this is why religion has sucha powerful hold on people who want to believe. To believe that this is it, can be a very sobering thought. To believe there's "something better on the way" can make disorder and heartbreak and tragedy bearable. All of that is not to say because it is easy to believe, that it is truth to believe.

if he did he would see that he is very WRONG!! and nobody try to put me down on this because i am a believer and i will stand by God.

Daniel all the wonders of the Universe, the human brain, eye whatever are not proof of intelligent design. How exactly is that proof, I sure dont see a made by God tag on everything.

Please actually go study the concept of evolution. Just because Apes, monkeys are part of our evolutionary past doesnt mean that they die off, You really dont have a clue about evolution if you dont understand that evolution is very complex, it involves mutation, natural select and environmental stimulis over thousands to millions of years. This is just a simplified example if you really want to expand your mind and are not afraid to then pick up some books.

You are right though, people will believe what they want regardless of the evidence. And there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of God but there is endless amounts of scientific data, fossils both plant and animal, as well as advancments in DNA sequencing that supports Evolution.

why don't you evolve into a human and acknowledge there's WAY more evidence for evolution than there is for "god"

For those who espouse evolution as the answer: if man was descended from apes, how come there are still apes among us? Why didn't they all "evolve" into humans?

Its because they where genetically altered from aliens!!

Not to be offensive, but I hear people who believe in God talk about "the evidence that surrounds us" all the time. Just because you claim that something is "proof" or "evidence" DOES NOT MAKE IT SO. It may be evidence enough to you, but just because you say you know something does not make it proof. Every time I read or hear somebody has proved the existence of god, or has all the evidence, my ears perk up and I come running, but I'm always dissapointed. If there is a God, then great for all of us that still doesn't mean your concept of god is correct. If not, doesn't it seem like we've caused a lot of harm over a myth?