mmm wonder how you would feel if you or someone you care about was being tortured.. I guess no one will care.

This sounds like: Do the Blacks have souls? Of course they feel pain! This a fact of life, pleasure and pain.

Very egotistical to think any other way. Next thing you know some people will insist that the earth is the center of the universe and the sun revoles around it. Then a lot of fols will start to believe in an omnipotent god who created a nearly infinite (and empty) place to be....

Lots of folks care. Maybe even u, deep in ur heart.

Did you know that older lobsters will lead younger lobsters around by the claw to guide them? Yes, it's true.

Best way to cook: Kill first with icepick or sharp knifepoint through head. Cook immediately.

If you must boil, bring to very high boil. Plunge lobster or crab headfirst into water. It will take a few seconds for brain to die... boiling is terrible way to go for any living creature. But this method is better than slow boil which is horrific for the little creatures.

Yes, they are delicious. But killing quickly, painlessly, humanely is the best option if you must eat.

Best way to cook: Kill first with icepick or sharp knifepoint through head. Cook immediately.

But I wonder if freezing would do the trick with even less suffering...don't know how cold it would have to get and for what period of time to kill a lobster though. People would just have to adjust their definition of "fresh lobster".

If you don't like meat and killing for food makes some of you so mad, why did you people read the "news" story? GO eat a tree.

GO eat a tree.

HA HAaaaaa.

All the creatures we eat feel pain. Get use to it.

All the creatures we eat feel pain. Get use to it.

All the creatures we eat feel pain. Don't eat them.

Tell that to the lions, tigers, and bears (OH MY) nearing...

As an individual that has a disease where my Doctors have told me to avoid nuts and fiber while increasing my protein, what choice have I got?

For most it is simply a choice, but not for all.

Well I think you would feel diferntly if animals started eating us and pulled of youmothers legs or put her in a pot of boiling water

Well I think you would feel differently if animals started eating us

Are you kidding? You must live in a big city. Most of the USA is not city. Animals do attack and eat humans.

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S485163.shtml

http://cbs2.com/local/Coyote.Chino.Hills.2.716821.html

http://www.adn.com/bearattacks/

Humans are a part of the food chain. If you don't want to eat meat, fine. Yet, that won't stop animals from eating people.

Love causes pain; should we stop loving each other?

The Truth causes pain; shall we stop seeking it?

Growth is painful; shall we stop growing?

Life is painful; should we end it?

The only sin about the lobster and other creatures we consume is if we consume them all without regard for the future.

Same as the Cod fish which has been decimated by the commercial fishing industry; we need a policy of global conservation.

Until mankind can create some sort of nutrition bar made from ABSOLUTELY NOTHING (in fact that's what I would name it) we will eat what we have access to.

That said; we need reform in the worldwide agriculture and food distribution philosophies.

USAFVET:

Are you kidding? You must live in a big city. Most of the USA is not city. Animals do attack and eat humans.

you are correct; the coyote and coydog (domestic dogs w/ wild coyotes) is a growing concern as the deer population continues to increase.

Coyotes have and will attack humans (usually children or small adults under 100 lbs).

Even here in NYC the raccoon population is growing and they have been know to attack people.

NJ is over run with Black Bears (The Sopranos episode with the bear is not uncommon in areas of NJ and PA.

A Fisher will attack if the circumstance warrants it and they are vicious!

USAF Vet,

I can understand why your doc might tell you to avoid seeds but not nuts (allergy?) and especially not fiber. I can't see how avoiding fiber can help you (I have a background in medicine).

Beans are man's best friend.

:~)

In the Vein,

A Friend of mine lives in El Reno Oklahoma (a small city). His kids were playing in the kitchen when he heard something at the patio door and went to investigate. There was a cougar trying to get in to eat the kids.

He removed the kids then took several pictures (with hunting rifle at the ready). I would not have believed it if I had not seen the pics.

I also read an article in Reader's Digest a few years ago, about several mountain lions that ate several people in Colorado, because the town had banned deer hunting and the deer population quickly grew. The natural predators moved in and deer population decreased. This meant the mountain lions had to find new sources of food and they were small pets at first. Then humans started disappearing. It was a case of people messing with the food chain for good intentions that turned into a nightmare of bad consequences.

You got it!

NY State won't admit it; but in the northern hunting zone (Approximately everything north and east of Syracuse) cougars have been spotted over the last 7 years and the DEC denies "releasing" them.

They sit in trees and will drop down on it's prey at times. I will not walk the back 50 on my property unarmed....although I rarely go back there anyway....plenty of good hunting closer to the house.

It isn't the fault though, of most folks; living in big cities they have little exposure to life in the remainder of the country and can't wrap their mind around it.

Same as folk from the rural regions can't wrap their minds around the shortage of school seats for children in NYC; the "upstaters" think they get short-changed in funding formulas and in reality, the upstate schools are better equipped, newer, and have modern accoutrement's and services...like a RN and DR. with a medical facility "on campus" to care for the child and Rx (first dose only) to get them started if need be and keep them until their guardian comes to pick them up after work.

I don't know that any NYC public school has that....

but I'm off topic, sorry....

Just wish folks could try to open their minds and use common sense.....

because the town had banned deer hunting and the deer population quickly grew. The natural predators moved in and deer population decreased.

huh? Isn't the mountain lion one of the natural predators? If the mountain lions couldn't get the deer, what was killing them off? Seriously... the public has a right to know!

Nearing,

can understand why your doc might tell you to avoid seeds but not nuts (allergy?) and especially not fiber. I can't see how avoiding fiber can help you (I have a background in medicine).

Actually, I have always loved my veggies, nuts, whole grains and many other items as well. Then, about a year ago I received a new Doctor at the VA. He is a medical researcher in Gastrointerology at the University of Oklahoma Medical Center and works in the GI Clinic through a combined effort in research by the VA and OU.

You see, I have Crohn's and have lost a lot of bowel due to surgeries. I also have a lot of scare tissue through out my bowels. Nuts, seed, whole grains and fiber do not digest easily and tend to scrape the bowel. In most people this is great because it helps keep polyps down and helps to clear/clean the bowel. For me though, this can lead to bleeding and more scare tissue which could lead to more surgeries from being blocked off. It can also cause the ulcers to become worse, because they scrap the ulcers or small pieces of them get trapped in the ulcer and become infected.

USAF Vet,

I see. A specialists perspective for a patient with a short bowel. i defer to him.

I understand your dilemma and I commend you on doing the best that you can. :~)

huh? Isn't the mountain lion one of the natural predators? If the mountain lions couldn't get the deer, what was killing them off? Seriously... the public has a right to know!

Sorry, I will type slower.

People stopped hunting the deer. The Deer population grew. The Mountain Lion is the natural predator of deer. They moved in to the area. They knew there was lots of food. The Mountain Lion population grew. They killed and ate the deers. The deer population decreased. The Mountain Lion got hungry, because of less food. The Mountain Lions started eating other things. The other things were small pets. This did not make them feel full. The Mountain Lions were still hungry. The Mountain Lions started eating humans.

Thanks Nearing. I really miss a lot of different foods.

USAF Vet

Ahhh... I get it now... I see what you were saying now, I just wasn't connecting the dots... note to self: don't post when tired... hehe.

That is alright. I don't post well when I am tired either.

sensible human beings...

It's just as stupid as questioning if women had souls..

Now wait a minute, don't be rash. That discussion ain't over 'til the fat lady sings! (go ahead click the up arrow, you know you want to)

You haven't met my ex wife. I know for a fact some women have no souls...

Women have souls. The last woman who ticked me off screamed from the bottom of her soul when she hit the boiling water. I think she was "stressed" by it ... for a minute, LOL. I'm just kidding - relax and lighten up people.

I am sick of stupid animal rights activists who can't tell the difference between a human being and an animal. Pets are not people and neither is your dinner. Now chow down and shut up.

To be fair, a lot of people are sick of stupid, indifferent people who don't care about the similarities between a human animal and animal beings. ;-)

I'm an omnivore, but it's simple, common sense: if you must kill it, make it as humane and painless as possible. I don't believe in karma, but you never know, you know?

****************************

And to those justifying eating animals because cougars eat us....er? That sort of comparison negates the argument, 'We are humans, not like animals at all....'

....oh, and look up the definition of 'obligate carnivore'....we aren't in it.

That said, I haven't the willpower to swear off meat entirely. ^_^ If I had THAT sort of willpower, I would also exercise regularly, swear off chocolate and finally get around to cleaning out the garage.

Perhaps we should leave them in the ocean where they can be eaten by a nice compassionate shark, or an octopus.

I notice the article also suggests that insects feel pain. Looks like I'll have to stop driving the interstate in summer.

I'm an omnivore, but it's simple, common sense: if you must kill it, make it as humane and painless as possible. I don't believe in karma, but you never know, you know?

Oh dear... and here I was worried about how my treatment of other people... are you telling me now I have to consider my food in my karma calculations? Dang... I'm going to have to be really nice to my food from here on out... jk

And to those justifying eating animals because cougars eat us....er? That sort of comparison negates the argument, 'We are humans, not like animals at all....'

I don't have a problem with being an animal! Do you? The fact that we are animals, and have overcome some of our baser instincts is far more impressive than saying we were never animals to begin with.

I agree, I love veal, but stopped eating it years ago because of the inhumane treatment given the calfs. Same with Fois Gras YUMMIE! but once I found out the ducks are force fed by a method called gauvage, I stopped eating it. I have recently heard they now have humane fois gras available where they get the fatty liver by feeding a high-fat diet for the last few weeks before slaughter. I might just try that. It's difficult now to tell what meat has been treated humanely and what has not. In the UK, they have a package designation on label in the supermarkets "Humane". Typically, these meats come from family farms, which in the UK, is where most meat comes from. These huge factory farms are the problem. Greed for money makes people do ugly things.

Mainly cause it tastes so good! compassion and food is a contradiction.

Ding ding ding!!! You win an idiot award !!!

"And to drop live animals in boiling water. . . how can anyone think that's acceptable behavior."

I am sick of stupid animal rights activists who can't tell the difference between a human being and an animal. Eat more veal and be sure to taunt your lobsters thoroughly before plunging them into the boil because the "stress" makes them taste better.

Like I said before....animal rights activists are tired of stupid, apathetic people who don't care about the similarities between animals and people.

Eat more broccoli, and be sure to steam it thoroughly, because the 'steam' makes it taste better. ;-)

Watching the results for a little while and it is clear to me that most of the people voting take them off the menu are the ones who still want to eat their chicken sandwiches, baked chicken, fish fillets, fish sticks, shrimp cocktails, hamburgers, rib-eye steaks, holiday turkeys and hams, mahi-mahi, etc. They just want someone else to kill their food for them and serve it up already with the skin/feathers/heart/lungs/guts and bones ripped away so that they don't have to do it themselves. Doesn't say much for most of their responses or the character of those people to face reality ...

We are not saying to stop eating lobsters and crab, what we are saying is KILL THEM HUMANELY! I LOVE lobster and crab, but it makes no difference in taste if the lobsters are killed humanely first instead of being dropped into a pot of boiling water! Its all delicious. I still eat eggs, but I know my eggs are organic from a range free farm and not a factory torture farm. Yes, I pay a lot more for my eggs, but worth the extra $3 a week I spend for the peace of mind that my consumption of spanish omelettes is not leading to the torture of innocent animals.

The difference is that they're cooked alive. When's the last time you saw somebody boiling a live cow?

Bump to Marisa.

Death is part of life, so I don't have a philosophical problem with killing animals (or plants!) for food. However, I don't believe in torture, of people or animals, so it's all about *how* they live and *how* they die. If we allow them to live at least decently and kill them swiftly and as painlessly as is reasonable (pain-free may be impossible), then I'm all for it. If not, then take it off the menu, out of the shoes, etc., etc.!

I have to answer yes to all of your questions. When I became vegetarian, I stopped eating all animals. The other things, I learned as I went. But yes, I do not ingest animals or use animals products for clothing, household, etc. I do consume only organic dairy from free-range cows, and cage-free eggs from free-roaming chickens. And a bonus - a 100 cholesterol reading last month. I would also like to add fur (of course), suede, silk, wool, cashmere, feathers and pearls to your list of vegetarian no-nos. Yes, in some cases the animals does not have to be destroyed, but they are treated cruely and not well cared for after injuries or illnesses from harvesting.

I agree,just because we need them does not mean we have to create pain to do it

Plants don't have a nervous system.

Don't worry about 'murdering' them.

Ok I am going to post one more comment, maybe. There is some well thought out comments and others .... but it is still apparent that most here know only a little bit or comment very little about how 90+% of meat (beef/pork/fish/shrimp/etc) is obtained/processed. Also the vast array of products that use animal parts that are used in the medical, chemical and textile industries. The fishing industry basically suffocates fish, shrimp, mollusks and marine mammals by dumping them into a hold on ice. Crabs HAVE to be cooked within a very short time of being killed or the bacteria in them spreads throughout their system very very rapidly, ie the most efficient and safest way to cook them is to toss them in a pot of boiling water. There are some game animals (not farm raised) that have similar issues with glands contaminating the meat etc. If you are going to kill something to consume it, how you kill it should only concerning the quickest, cleanest way. The touchy feely attitude is a Disney cartoon outlook. The net result of increased legislation in this country won't do anything to change methods in general except drive businesses and jobs outside our borders. This country is already a major importer of farm raised fish/shrimp/vegetables and other products (Iran and China are major exporters of farm raised fish/shrimp, do you think they care about how they process the food????). In the Gulf Coast area, we import about 40+% of this type of seafood from the Pacific rim already because the Gulf of Mexico does not have the natural ability to produce as much as we consume. You can say, hey, I won't wear wool or leather, you alternative is cotton or hemp or petrolium based synthetics. In the next 12 years, the worlds population will gain 2 billion more people, 10 years after that another 2 billion, 8 years after that another 2 billion ..... food production is headed into the crapper in the next 20-30 years .... you can verify these numbers through published world population growth curves. Come up with better ideas on food production or handling, love to here them ...

Amen!!! You win a genius award !!! I am so glad to find someone here who actually gets it right and states it in clear terms.

"The touchy feely attitude is a Disney cartoon outlook. The net result of increased legislation in this country won't do anything to change methods in general except drive businesses and jobs outside our borders. This country is already a major importer of farm raised fish/shrimp/vegetables and other products ..."

You got it !!! Once we drive farming out of the US completely, what happens if/when the rest of the world decides they are going to keep their food and not sell it to us? If you think dependence on foreign oil is bad, then keep going with this crapola animal rights stuff and the legistlation that follows it and see where it leads this country.

Hey, "protecting the innocent" ... ding ding ding!!! You win an idiot award!

"I would also like to add ... pearls to your list of vegetarian no-nos."

Oysters are people too. Doofus. Please remove yourself from the gene pool.

lobsters and crabs DO eat each other and not just in captivity. But the person who said to kill them with a knife in the head is right. Fast , done. I don't eat veal, but lobsters . I eat them.

yoda - Agree with the population problems. Although I don't have an answer, I have to share something I read about recently; lab-created meat.

The idea is a little repulsive on the surface to me, although only because I'm not used to it, I guess -- but they take muscle cells (bovine, in this case), and cultivate them to grow in layers on large sheets. Then you peel the muscle tissue off when, ah, ready to eat.

They admit it won't make steaks, but can take the place of such things as hamburger.

(Which leads me to wonder; would it be possible to make 'vegan' burgers out of meat this way, using a cow that hasn't been killed, if the vegan philosophy is 'do no harm'? Just a thought. Sadly, I have to leave soon, so I won't have a chance to see the answer. :) )

less people=less food. I am not talking Malthus. I am talking about agribiz and too much farming. We need wilderness. It takes too much land to farm and it ruins it. People are made out of food.

Soylent Green, baby!

I agree.  Pulling the legs off live crabs?  Why?  I also understand you can cut lobsters in a certain way near the head that does them in immediately. 

It's not just scientists doing research. I have seen chefs dismember live crabs before tossing the body into the pot just to be more efficient; apparently it takes too much time to kill the things first.

Have you ever had a stuffed crab? Since they're boiled alive how do you think the stuffing gets in there? Yep, stick a knife in a live crab's side, jam a bunch of stuffing into it and throw it in the pot.

I've worked in restaurants for most of my adult life and haven't eaten crab, lobster or veal since I started my first job more than 20 years ago.

Yeah, I worked in a fresh seafood market for years and know exactly how badly these animals are treated. Down here in Florida, Stone Crabs are harvested only for their claws. They catch them, rip their claws off and throw them back. I love seafood, and still eat it, but I know for a fact that shellfish can be humanely handled and slaughtered. I suppose because they make no noise people aren't effected but then again most people (according to a lot of these posts) wouldn't care anyway.

For the people who say dropping crabs and lobsters into a BOILING pot of water is quick and humane is wrong. That would be like a person being thrown into a burning buliding. Thats Quick and humane right? Have you ever heard a lobster scream when it gets dropped into the water? No I'M NOT SAYING DON'T EAT THEM..just kill them with compassion and pain free, if you choose to eat them. Same with anything with a face and ends up on your dinner plate! I hope any one who doesn't think killing animals inhumanely gets to feel just the slightest amount of paint hey do and maybe that will change your mind. Notice How HUMANELY has the word HUMAN in it. Think about it.

You are a doofus . I had stone crab for dinner last week. I've been "ripping" the claws off for about 30 years now as I catch my own. If you did a little research you ignoramus you would find that the claw is designed to be detachable. Then the crab grows a new claw after molting a few times. Here you go: "The stone crab loses its limbs easily to escape from predators or tight spaces, but their limbs will grow back." That came from the Texas Parks and Wildlife web site, which was the first one of many that I found in a quick search.

"Why should lobsters be left out of the loop just because they are giant bugs that live in the sea?"

I am sick of stupid animal rights activists who can't tell the difference between a human being and an animal. Pets are not people and neither is your dinner. Now chow down and shut up.

"if you are alive, you are guilty". you eat something, means you hurt them before you eat. starve and you are a saint*

Then you do not realise that the human primate is an omnivore and you have essential nutrients missing in your diet.

Hey pooranimals, thanks for leaving more for me! You are a doofus. I am sick of stupid animal rights activists who can't tell the difference between a human being and an animal. Pets are not people and neither is your dinner. Now chow down and shut up.

We've already paid for a study (some years ago) to see whether ducks with one wing suffered any disadvantage in surviving in the wild when compared to ducks with two wings. Yes, some group of scientists somewhere actually had to conduct a study to find that out. I thought scientists were supposed to be smart...

What do you have against vegans? Perhaps, somewhere deep down, you too have a conscience. Like a little boy not knowing how to deal with his first crush, you decide to throw a rock at her. Stop throwing rocks at the people who don't turn their heads. Do you know what it is like to be starving? Sarcastic or not, I wonder why you'd wish that on anyone. If more people were vegan, there would be fewer people starving in the world. But all of this is beside the point that it is not right to torture any creature. Be human. Be humane.

I agree Mel. I am a meat eater, but I do not have any problem if someone choses to be a vegetarian or a vegan.

I do however, disagree with this:

If more people were vegan, there would be fewer people starving in the world.

More and more, people have been rioting over the lack of corn, soy or other farm grown foods that are used for bio-fuels. The need for bio-fuels have either pushed the price above what others can afford or has created a lack of food in many places.

Stop agribiz growing huge crops and there will be less starvation in the Long run. THe food does not get to the starving and poisoning the planet doesn't help. If there are too many people there is too much food. People are made of food. Read Quinn, "the story of B"

katinia... huh?

Stop agribiz growing huge crops and there will be less starvation in the Long run. THe food does not get to the starving and poisoning the planet doesn't help. If there are too many people there is too much food. People are made of food. Read Quinn, "the story of B"

A) The ability to specialize in farming was one of the things that began civilization as we know it, so everyone going back to subsistence is impossible.

B) The fact that the food doesn't get to the right people isn't a problem with the food, its a problem with the distribution.

C) How do you suggest we go from overpopulation? Just let people starve? This is an article about caring for f*n lobsters, and you suggest we just let people starve so we don't have to grow as much grain? Who's the insensitive one?

you're an idiot! tinned dead babies? As far as lobster and crabs go. I agree completely. I prefer to steam them alive covered with old bay seasoning

iffat... If you truly believe that people in Japan eat dead babies, then you are an idiot.

iffat, how do I find the link?

Thanks,

Susan

Dead babies? You truly are an idiot. You should be removed from the gene pool by being boiled for dinner in Japan. I'll take a bite of you.

I am sick of stupid animal rights activists who can't tell the difference between a human being and an animal. Pets are not people and neither is your dinner. Now chow down and shut up.

First of all they DO eat disgusting things in the Asian countries... and they do eat fetuses.

And further more, I should hope no critter of any kind ever crosses a path of people who think like this, when compassion dies, whats left of the human is but an empty shell.?(every pun intended) lol!

Ding ding ding! You geta an idiot award! Please remove yourself from the gene pool before you contaminate it, you ignorant, prejudiced, xenophobe. Here is your definitve answer:

"Given the utter lack of evidence, I think we can safely say that the Chinese as a people, including the Taiwanese and those living on the mainland, do not eat human babies. Neither, for that matter, do Jews, Christians, witches, aborigines, Gypsies, Satanists, or any of the other groups accused of this heinous custom over the centuries. There is simply no proof that such a practice exists, or has ever existed, anywhere. What the historical record shows is that the accusation has surfaced time and time again as an ethnic or religious slur with no basis in fact.

The claim that baby eating is an accepted practice in China (or Thailand, Japan, Korea, or Israel, etc.) is essentially a modern version of an ancient form of bigotry known as "blood libel" -- one group accusing another of murdering infants in ritual sacrifices. According to the Greeks, the Jews did it; according to the Romans, the Christians did it; according to the Christians, it really was the Jews who did it; and so on down through history.

Sociologists say the driving forces behind such prejudices are ignorance, xenophobia (fear of foreigners), and psychological projection (attributing the perceived moral failings of one's own culture to another)."

First of all , Seafood lover, you are mistaken, about your information and misguided to refer to myself or anyone else on this thread that disagrees with you, as an idiot. That in itself states a wealth of things about the type of person that feels the need to belittle others, to make his point.

Believing that , while we have a structured food chain, as our way of survival, doesn't mean we must make living creatures suffer needlessly, and that was the message I got from the article. It wasn't an ad for Vegans, or to attack those that enjoyed those foods, more a point made about not dispatching our food sources with any undo stress or pain.

Compassion... simple compassion.

As far as the fetal consumption, guess all the articles and photos on the net have to be changed because there is one person declaring other people are idiots, makes it unreliable.

The level of maturity rears its ugly head, when one cannot make an adult response without needing to stand on the back(verbally abusing) of others to feel more superior.

Interesting ... the size of the ego

Sounds like somebody needs a hug....

EXACTLY! We'll whine and complain about "poor crabs" but you'll walk right past the guy on the corner who needs a bite to eat, or drive past the car accident on the road and just look but never bother to get out and help!

People...get your priorities straight! Who give a rat's @ss about this, really? Now...if the crab were 100 feet tall and mowing down your kids on the walk home from school nobody would care if he felt pain. I say put down your tissues and grab a fork and a bib!

Boy I bet you're fun to be around you grump!

You tell 'em!!! Lobster- the other white meat. mmmmm